2 lazy 2 teach
Column’s up: What your kid is learning in school:
Update: A public school teacher in the Bronx shares her experience:
I’m a 23 year old high school science teacher in the Bronx and I recently asked my ninth graders what their favorite book was. Almost every one of them told me it was “Down These Mean Streets” by Piri Thomas, so I got ahold of this book to see what was so interesting. This is a book they read in their English classes at my school. I was shocked when I opened it and glanced at several of the pages.
It’s not bad enough that every other word is some form of “fuck,” but there are also references to moustaches as “pussy-ticklers.” If I found my child reading this book from school I would yank them out of that school so fast.
It’s not like Huck Finn, with Jim’s dialect. Instead, every sentence in this book is some combination of curse words and ebonics.
I know these students, and I know how low their English skills are. These students are not being helped by reading books like this. My administrators are so frustrated by these students’ lack of English skills and yet they approve reading material like that.
A Tupac fan proves our point:
It amazes me how you speak so negative of tupacs work without never even probably hearing his music. Im not saying he was shakespeare, but if you look at the big picture he was able to bring forth a certain clarity which enabled his followers to identify with him.Your artcle is baseless and without any merit. Im always baffled on how so called journalist can make assumptions without doing any solid background check. I bet you never been to the hood or can possibly relate to some of the innercity kids who use artist such as 2pac as a rolemodel to give them the inspiration to achieve the goals. In retrospect 2pac
accomplished more in his lifetime that you ever will.Dont hate the player hate the game that created these conditions which enable such artist like 2pac to reflect the times and eras of their time. Michelle here some advise next time you want to use a rapper as a scapegoat to justify your means think before making an ass out of your self.
Another Tupac fan writes:
Honestly i was uphauled at the ignorance spewing from your article in today’s NY post.
Update: What they won’t be teaching Worcester students:
The blood-boiling story of Assata Shakur (a.k.a. Joanne Chesimard). Read the whole thing.
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Shocked may I recommend that you explore other sources for learning the language. Last I checked the only places in this country that speak like Tupac wrote are not the best place to learn conversational English.
Of course that could depend on what you want to use the language for. Communicating with some of the poseurs who have posted here might require some dumbed down language skills.
Mahatma - it’s not that I’m trying to “teach” anything. You can’t “teach” those who don’t want to be “taught” - hell, I know that. Some people bask in their own ignorance, saying things like, “Well, this is just the way I talk/write/act, and if you can’t accept that, then there’s something wrong with you!” Right. Gotcha.
The point really isn’t 2Pac. Believe me, I’d be just as pissed off if they were trying to read Poems by Britney Spears in school. My POINT is that there’s no REASON to teach 2Pac in school, as he was not a literary author. I don’t care if kids are bored in school. Do it the way they did it in my day - you read what was assigned to you, or your ass FAILED.
“But Jenn! Then we’ll have scores of inner-city kids failing out of school!”
So? That’s the choice they’re making, yes? Then let them deal with the consequences. It happens. Welcome to the REAL WORLD, where no one gives a damn about you or what you think.
“Comments like 2PAC RULZ N UR STUPID YAY!!!!111111 just get glanced over, quoted and laughed at.”
aren’t you the one who said you and michelle were the smatest people here?
that seems like the same thing.
and nobody really cares if your in law school. im in college too, who really cares?
Ah, that “literary author” thing was a typo. Sorry. I suppose anyone who publishes a book becomes a literary author. Anyway, topic.
“Having a criminal record (or being a thug) doesn’t unqualify you as a writer worth studying.”
I totally agree with this. And as soon as we can find where Michelle said this, we’ll really be rolling!
Oh, wait…
Did I miss the MICHELLE UR A RASIZT!!!!111111 boat? Or is that coming next?
Listen, all I know is Tupac got me to read books and write poetry. Before I heard Tupac I would rather have slit my rist, than open a book. So pay notice to that, or let it go in one ear and out the other.
“aren’t you the one who said you and michelle were the smatest people here?”
Well, we just located the most gullible person in this thread!
“and nobody really cares if your in law school.”
And the dumbest. Moving on…
“-haha, the funniest thing you said yet. and who would you suggest is better? the “Birdman”? hmmmm, what about “LIL JON”?
Would you rather the kids be reading about “pimp juice”?”
If that’s what you’d like to believe, feel free. I know what’s in my CD player and what’s not.
“Is that why every single rapper gives it up to tupac and admits he was the greatest?”
Ah, I see. So if a whole bunch of people say A, then A is correct. Right? Sorry, but even though I slept through my Principles of Logic class, I know that’s not true.
Oh, by the way? I don’t think Jordan was the greatest basketball player either. Get over it.
Look the point is and was that education is about learning not about entertainment. Choose what you want for entertainment but know that education requires learning some very specific skills.
You will not get those skills from reading assignments that include Tupac’s poetry or Britney Spears thoughts (now that may be an oxymoron) but through rather specific books, which sadly includes Shakespeare’s use of Iambic Pentameter and not Tupac’s use of some kind of text messaging lingo.
This discussion about who is in college and law school is a real hoot. I have my juris doctor and practice in D.C. (and have to get back to work now) and from what I can tell of the legal profession, many of them should read more Shakespeare (and Tupac for that matter).
Thanks for an entertaining (but rather long) lunch.
“You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That’s ‘bad’ environment for all you Tupac fans)”
Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^
i jjust thought i’d post this again to show how ignorant you are.
“You deserve some credit for trying to teach in such a vitriolic environment. (That’s ‘bad’ environment for all you Tupac fans)”
Mahatma just displayed IGNORANCE AT ITS FINEST^^^^
i just thought i’d post this again to show how ignorant you are.
Hooray for mr. who! Tupac must’ve taught you some cut-and-paste skills! That 2Pac! He was the prophet that walked on water too, right?
Jenn:
Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever. You must agree to this or…or…[holds breath]
Jenn go outside, do something, find a boyfriend, it’s clear that your bored beyond normal standards!
Don’t you have job?
“Michael Jordan was the greatest basketball player ever.”
If I don’t believe this, does this mean we can’t get married? *winces*
Tupac’s talent inspired today’s current mega rap stars such as Ludacris, 50 cent and Nelly. These are the real role models for today’s teenagers. The fact that they denigrate women should be incidental to their overall message.
*sigh*
Despite our mutual agreement on educational curriculum, Britney Spears intellectual vacuity and the clear superiority of Shakespearian meter as an educational tool, I’m just not sure that is enough to build a lasting relationship.
(Now I really do have to get to work on these interogatories!)
I’m an educated guy, 23, white and I grew up with everything and still I like Tupac. Why?? Because I can’t deny the impact he had. In my eyes he was a genius and someone with a great future ahead of him. I like the softer side of Tupac more then the so called “gangsta” side but I know where he came from and I know the facts, unlike most of you. I bet 95% of the people here that criticise Tupac are rich and they think they have it all. I don’t think they should judge Tupac just for the simple fact that they don’t know how it feels to be the “underdog”. I respect everyones opinion and I will not judge anyone without knowing the facts.
ps. isn’t it a good thing that Tupac shows people that reading is not for nerds only? I began reading because of him and I now know what I’ve missed all these years. I even like poetry now and that’s all because of him.
And I have to get to school. Like, now.
*hugs Mat* You’re my kind of guy!
TO ALL THE TUPAC HATERS:
TUPAC HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ALMOST EIGHT YEARS AND YOU’RE HAVING A HEATED DISCUSSION ABOUT HIM AND YOU DON’T EVEN LIKE HIM.
that made my day.
HAHAHAHA *leaves this arguement laughing at all the hate they have for one man*
back in my day we studied lyrics penned by marvin gaye and james brown. “I heard it through the carbine” was my favorite song.
How dare you call Tupac Amaru Shakur. Makaveli-Trained and Soldier4death are right. Tupac was cleverer than you will ever be. You diss him and slag him off now, but if you thought for one second he was alive u would of kept your BIG STUPID MOUTH SHUT.
Truth is your mouth will get you in trouble one of these days.
I’d say something else to you but I wouldn’t lower myself for the likes of you.
As a 30 year old Tupac fan I considered writing in a ripping Michelle, especially since she has little credibility (get a national column and then we’ll talk). I have matured since my more ardent Tupac times and have moved on to earn two degrees. Tupac was a prophet so to speak - but one of good and evil.
It appears that many of you either never went to school or barely pay attention while there - including Michelle. One book out of 12 grades does not constitute a dumbing down and like Hamlet - there is a method to Tupac’s madness. So appreciate that. You read books AFTER school - you DISCUSS them during class.
You all should be more concerned with the teacher’s wages than what they are being asked to work with in school. An unsatisfied teacher leaves an unsatisfied student.
To my Tupac fans - I love yall but step up. If you haven’t noticed most of the intelligent people have moved on from this “message board”. I’m sure Michelle stopped reading when she realized what kind of can of worms she opened.
Soulja:
Poetry IS for everyone, I agree. Unfortunately, not everyone can write poetry worth reading.
These boyz today
Who sing and play
May know how to fight,
But they sure can’t write.
See what I mean?
As for being born with a silver spoon in my mouth… I was born in the defunct coalfields of West Virginia and never saw a silver spoon until I educated myself and made enough money to buy one on my own dime. But thanks for revealing the truth about the fine “fan” base who feels that people who ridicule rich illiterate thugs - who happen to write banal doggerel to bass drum “music” - shouldn’t be judgemental.
Follow your own advice.
Tupac’s gone, but his presence lives on..
His words like crystals still clarify..
We only wish he was sanctified..
If I could stand by his side, I’d ask how to pimp my ride.
“And this is to MICHELLE MALKIN- I would love for you to post something on this board and get into a debate with us. But you wont, because the truth is you are scared and you know it.”
That…or she’s far too busy laughing her head off. Or maybe that’s just little ol’ me.
I can admit when I’m wrong, so I’m sorry for judging you I shouldn’t have done that.
But Tupac’s poems are way better than your 1. grade rime, no offense.
Be honest have you ever read one of Tupac’s “banal doggerel to bass drum”, or are you just guessing?
Oh by the way Tupac was never rich, he almost filed for bankrupcy 10 month before he was killed.
I apologised to you, for judging…
Michelle: this is simply another reason to support school vouchers.
Repeat after me:
“Liberalism is the philosophy of consolation as the West commits cultural suicide”
Excuse me Jen, but are you perfect? Big deal, I spelled a word wrong. Who cares? I think everyone here got the gist of my argument. Your best response or comeback to any of the thought provoking things I wrote was a grammar lesson? A grammar lesson on something I wrote in about five minutes? I’m oh so sorry that I didn’t run a spell check. I was unaware that I was being graded. (The sarcasm is very much on purpose) Are you serious? Is that best you can do? That was a cop out. In the lexicon of my generation: “That was a punk move.” Defeat my logic! Prove my words wrong. This is a challenge to you and Michelle Malkin.
Throughout her excuse for a journalist expose on Tupac Shakur, Michelle mentions his jail record, his basebat wielding, his cop hating, and so forth. I’m very good at reading in between the lines. She basically says that since he used improper English, a stylized grammar with numbers and symbols instead of words (The same style Prince often uses), and was, as Tupac would say, “Thugged out” his writing shouldn’t be studied in schools. I crushed her whole argument like a five-ton anvil landing on a roach.
All Michelle does in her writing is insult a dead man, and insult the hip-hop culture. Just because she doesn’t understand the music, the style, the lingo, and unique way of spelling she says that there is better writing on bathroom walls. She can have her opinion but I proved it wrong. Tupac’s writing is brilliant because it speaks to so many people. He’s a better writer than Michelle according to the general public. Answer these questions for me Michelle: How many people bought your last book? How much money did it make? How many people has your book influenced to not give up in the face of adversity? When you die will anyone care to write about you and your life almost a decade after your passing? Are any schools teaching by using your body of written work? When you die will anyone outside your professional colleges and friends/family want to read your works that have been unpublished? I doubt it.
I know some Tupac fans go way overboard with the hero worship. He was no saint but he wasn’t the demon you’ve made him out to be. If I studied your life and focused on all your negative aspects it wouldn’t paint a lovely picture of you as a person. That’s what the media does at times to Tupac. He had a very wicked bad side, like we all do. He just wasn’t ashamed or afraid to show it. But he also had a very kind and gentle side that is reflected in his poems and much of his music. Stop focusing solely on the bad and study the entire picture. If putting a book of his poems in school gets more kids interested in reading, then what’s the problem? They’re reading and getting turned on to a lot of other writers and creators thanks to Tupac. I don’t think your problem is with the book being in school, Michelle. You just don’t like the man and you really hate his auntie, huh? You amuse me greatly. I could debate with you all day but I have to go now. I’m preparing for MY album to be released in stores next month. I guess pretty soon you can sit back and try to sarcastically criticize me.
Wow, I didn’t know you people exist. It’s either your way or no way huh.
You are too busy correcting people’s spelling and grammar! Enjoy life for what it is, instead of bitching about how it could be!
“He’s a better writer than Michelle according to the general public. Answer these questions for me Michelle: How many people bought your last book? How much money did it make? How many people has your book influenced to not give up in the face of adversity? When you die will anyone care to write about you and your life almost a decade after your passing? Are any schools teaching by using your body of written work? When you die will anyone outside your professional colleges and friends/family want to read your works that have been unpublished? I doubt it.
I know some Tupac fans go way overboard with the hero worship. He was no saint but he wasn’t the demon you’ve made him out to be”
^Could not have been said better.
Tupac fans are more educated than you think. I guarentee you if you did this same thing with a rapper like LIL JON, or the Ying Yang twins, or Ludacris, you would not have gotten nearly as many responses with such wisdom. You would have probably gotten a bunch of gibberish that could not even be deciphered. Tupac has taught us well, and atleast is a better influence than any other rapper or musician for that matter.
if you can’t post your thoughts effectively in 1000 words or less you might want to sit in on that English class that the article refers to.
Soulja:
Thank you. And yes, I have read Tupac’s work. Some of the best, I assume, is reproduced in this thread. And I will grant you, it has passion and reflects what must have been a difficult life.
But the key issue for me - which has unfortunately been raised in Tupac’s “defense” - is that his published poetry is the work of a child. Unfortunately, his career was made short by his own inability to deal with his own personal devils. We will never know what he might have achieved given time, but the dollars of the business he was in suggest to me that he would have been mightily tempted to take the low road and simply pursue the least common denominator to maximize the near-term gains. It is difficult to rise above easy riches - as his financial dealings illustrate.
Do the rough scratchings of a 15-year old deserve to be on a required reading list? Required reading and listening for students should be the very best that our culture can provide. Rarely do teenagers and children produce work at that level. (In fact, I can think offhand of only one - Mozart.) Why just the best? Because school time is already limited and crowded. If international educational comparisons are to be believed, American students are already spending far too little time with greatness. If this is true on average, it is extremely true in most ghetto schools. Langston Hughes would have been a far better choice (ever read “The Weary Blues”?) than a teenage Tupac. He’s no less radical, but he’s a far, far, far better poet than Tupac-at-15.
YoungSkitzo…your name suits you. I didn’t say you spelled anything wrong. And even if you did, I didn’t notice. I was too busy absorbing your point.
I would’ve read the rest of your post…but I didn’t care.
Cheers!
God you people; “if you do that, your this”. “If can’t spell, you need to do that”.
Shut up, who made you people gods?
2pac is the voice of our generation. there you go jenn, now you can start shooting. angry because 2pac gets so much respect? furious that a dead black rapper can stir millions while you pleasure yourself by spelling correctly? get over it. the poems are going to be read in schools. if you dont like it, go write your own poetry and get it published.
hey george, i think the point of requiring 2pacs work to be read was due to his popularity. kids hear his songs, then they go to school, more often than not with a poor attitude. then they realize, hey i have this guys record in my cd player, and now i have this poetry by him. the point is to get kids to open a book. to read something besides a billboard, and hopefully think about what theyve read. ask a child who langston hughes is, then ask them who 2pac shakur is. its a simple matter of trying to get kids to read. they can inject the shakespeare, frost, and poe after the door has been opened.
Jenn, I can’t be bothered to read the posts after your Janet Jackson one at the moment, but for the record, do you realize Janet Jackson and Tupac were friends and starred as lovers in “Poetic Justice?”
“ask a child who langston hughes is, then ask them who 2pac shakur is.”
That is, in a nutshell, the whole point of a formal education (from my perspective).
Although your post was courteous and I thank you for that, I disagree with your educational approach. A love of poetry does not require, in my opinion, a journey from the bottom to the top. It requires the best material, sustained contact, and good teaching.
But disagreement is the spice of life, is it not??
“…”do you realize Janet Jackson and Tupac were friends and starred as lovers in “Poetic Justice?”
REALLY!?!?! Oh, my GAWD! I never knew that! Well, I guess that 2Pac is the greatest thing since sliced bread now! If JANET liked him, then he HAD to be a great guy - never mind that I NEVER said he was a bad one!
(computer, terminate sarcastic mode)
I think I’ll be quoting from this thread for weeks. Thank God for private schooling.
George
So it’s ok for you to judge then?
Anyways you are absolutely right, it is the work OF a child, FOR children. This is NOT for college students, it’s for pupils in middle school. After they learn 15/3 is 5, they might read a Tupac poem. Not to showcase great poetry, but to show that it exist. The kids will probably relate more to the work of child, than to a 30-40 year old name!
Middle school students can’t possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?
Do you remember what you read in middle school, I don’t!
That’s how I see it.
“Middle school students can’t possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?”
Please tell me you’re kidding.
*Couldn’t*
Soulja, maybe your children are idiots - obviously, they’re being raised by one. But please don’t lump all young students into the same boat as your own.
I could run down a LONG spiel of the stuff I read from grade seven on, but trust me. You wouldn’t know any of it.
*points to Encyclopedia*
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how you get your point across.
“Middle school students can’t possibly appreciate great poetry anyways, so why waste both teacher and the pupils time?”
Listen to me. Please listen. I WILL PAY YOU MONEY NOT TO HAVE CHILDREN. I’m dead serious. Do you have paypal?
My kids? I don’t have no kids, what are you crazy? I’M a kid for crying out loud!
I was talking about my fellow students, both in elementary and high school we all hated poetry!
I mean I can only speak of what I’ve seen!
But if you can remember all you have read, maybe you should get more out. There’s more to life than books!
Casual, I’ll throw in some loot to assure that she never, ever steps foot into a classroom! I had lazy teachers with her train of thought, and it’s a damned shame that I had to be rescued and thrown into what the government calls “advanced” classes just to learn about what should’ve been required reading for all. My best friend took “regular” classes, and you would’ve thought she was in a school for the retarded. What 12th grade class has to spend AN ENTIRE SEMESTER on “Lord of the Flies”, for goodness’ sakes? Oh! But at least they read the book - my school was GOOD for showing the movie instead!
I am not a female, if that’s what you are saying?
Secondly reading is cool, I’m not knocking you for reading. But there is more to life than to read books, maybe if you guys got more out, you wouldn’t have so much hatred for people different than you!
“…maybe if you guys got more out, you wouldn’t have so much hatred for people different than you!”
Out of the mouth of BABES, and so on.
You should learn the definition of the words “hatred”. This isn’t “hatred”. This is more condescending than hating.
Maroon 5’s rap?
Dear God, just stop posting. STOP.
Jurassic 5 is NOT similiar to Maroon 5. You are reaching. Please stop.
Similiar enough for you to know who it is, but hey i’m not perfect!