Michelle Malkin » TERROR IN THE SKIES (CONTINUED)

TERROR IN THE SKIES (CONTINUED)

By Michelle Malkin • July 16, 2004 09:41 AM

Regarding Annie Jacobsen’s intriguing article, I just got word from Dave Adams of the Federal Air Marshals Service (FAM). Adams confirmed that he spoke to Annie Jacobsen, was quoted accurately in her story, and confirmed some of the basic facts outlined in her article (there were 14 Syrians on the flight; they were questioned by the Los Angeles Police Department, FBI, FAM, and so on; they were a musical band).

Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece. (Update to the update: James Taranto notes that the Jungian Annie lives in Toronto, not Los Angeles). Another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism. If al Qaeda has been driven to such pathetic plots, maybe (no thanks to Norm Mineta) we really are getting somewhere.

Update II: By the way, my friend and Philly talk show host Michael Smerconish was the first to pick up on the idiotic policy that Jacobsen mentions which punished airlines for pulling over more than two Arab/Muslim passengers for secondary questioning. More info here, including Smerconish’s testimony about what 9/11 commissioner and former Navy Secretary John Lehman told him.

Update III: Good discussion at Ace of Spades and via Volokh, Jeff the Baptist thinks the Syrians were just praying. Hmmmm. Thomas Galvin had his own experience observing a passenger with “an oblong object wrapped in cloth.” Via Daniel Drezner, here’s the February 2004 London Observer article on intelligence related to mid-air bomb plots. David Horowitz had an eyebrow-raising flight experience last month.

Update IV: The always incisive Michele Catalano writes:

If this story is real and these men were what Annie thought they were, it’s a frightening story, indeed. Enough to make me start doing that nervous twitch everytime a plane flies a bit too low over my house. I thought I got rid of that twitch.

The more I write about it (as I’m reading other bloggers’ reactions to the story while I compose this), the more I think, why not? They keep saying they’re going to do something, why would I think this story is not true?

Again, I don’t want it to be true. The implications are not something I can let my brain chew on right now. Head, meet sand.

But what if? What if they were making a dry run? You can’t really protect the country by dealing in what ifs. So what’s the solution? Or is there one? And what do you make of this story?

Update V: Just a side note. The air marshals’ spokesman, Dave Adams, was a bit defensive in confirming the story, which seems to lend unsettling credence to Jacobsen’s account, in my opinion. Also, I’ve been trying to get a hold of the p.r. reps for WomensWallStreet.com. A receptionist said they’ve been swamped with calls since this morning. Am hoping this means my colleagues in the mainstream media are digging into the story, too.

Posted in: Airline Security, Annie Jacobsen, Norm Mineta

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#1869

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:38 pm, see-dubya said:

Ayatrollah, et al:

The article said they were going to perform
->at a casino
-> in the desert.
->They were flying into LA and out of Long Beach.

There are casinos in the desert near LA in Palm Springs and the Coachella valley. Matter of fact, I think those are the only casinos, in the desert, near LA.

I’m on it.
#1870

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:40 pm, icey said:

In regards to the mouthing – as has been mentioned previously, the arabic for “no” is “la”, or “la’a” for an emphatic no.

However, stand in front of a mirror, and say the word “la”, and then say “no”, the mouthing is not the same.

It is worth noting that the hebrew for “no” is “lo” (as in ‘lo and behold’).
#1871

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:42 pm, GWB said:

Hey, “american”, they were travelling on Syrian passports! If they were hired out of Detroit, how long had they been in the country? It is entirely possible they were a band, and there is nothing to this except ignorant fools on an airplane (I’m talking about the Syrians). However, if they were simply enjoying “scare the redneck”, then they were asking for a beat down.
If there is an announcement that there may be some bad people on the loose, and my neighbor decides he thinks it’s funny to lurk in the bushes outside my house that night – he will get a couple of ounces of lead dramatically inserted into his body somewhere. And he will deserve it.
#1872

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:42 pm, perfnerd said:

Lunacy. Hysteria. Get Real.

A smuggled SA-7 fired by someone from the end of a runway is far more efficient. There are hundreds of commercial airports, thousands of fields and roof tops to fire from.

Using 14 people to “blow up” a single airplane is stupid, unless the nefarious purpose was not to take down the plane but the air transport system by creating hysteria, fear of flying, forcing additional delays and hassle from even more idiotic security.

There was nothing wrong with pre-911 security. It took them 8 years of careful, dedicated planning to do what they did. The terrorists were very careful not sneak anything that was not allowed on board. What was wrong were the rules of engagement when they took over the plane. The rules assumed a hostage scenario. We know better now. It won’t happen again, that way. Even if the rules and procedures had not changed, it wouldn’t happen again that way.

When, and if, terrorists attack again it will be some place we are not expecting. They won’t hijack a plan again, because they know that won’t work a second time.
#1873

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:47 pm, dc said:

If there were multiple Air Marshalls on board then there were multiple loaded pistols ready to shoot anyone doing anything overtly aggressive including shooting through a flight attendant if necessary.

If you are a Muslim planning to hijack a plane you’ve got to know that the odds of neutralizing all the passengers and armed Air Marshalls is slim to none.
However if these savages manage to pull off another 9/11 style attack the propaganda value for al-Qaeda is enormous.

I’m guessing that in a real terrorist event a SM is going to get in front of the cockpit door with his/her gun drawn and shoot anyone who comes near no matter who they are.

This event sounds genuine to me and appears like a dry run for something bigger. Blowing up a plane in mid-air is not very effective given al-Qaedas intentions.

I think in this situation I would have done or said something to the Syrians even if it meant I’d probably be arrested for harrasment etc..
#1874

On July 16th, 2004 at 2:55 pm, Matt said:

Count me as a leftie-bush hater who absolutely agrees that this PC refusal to single out people (Mideastern men and women) as being more likely to cause terrorism as wrong-headed in the extreme. Everytime I fly, it absolutely amazes me that they’ll pull over some little old lady from Iowa for secondary screening and let other people who, frankly, look like terrorists, go through.

Who knows if the story is true or not, it’s something we need to think about. A couple of months ago, as I went through security at the airport, I saw a very clean Arabic man just ahead of me. He had on a baseball hat and sunglasses, and was carrying only a newspaper. He looked to me like he was casing the place. These people have infinite patience–they’ll wait years before they strike.

Unfortunately, I think it’s only a matter of time.
#1875

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:21 pm, wha?.... said:

I still doubt a good bit of this story too…as someone said over at freerepublic, 14 guys to assemble a bomb to take down one plane? That’s a pretty inefficient way to go…the terrorists would really have to be running out of options to do that.

Ron (posted upthread)-
We started being afraid of the enemy because trial lawyers have made it so the government or corporations are too afraid to make any pre-emptive moves?

Wha???? Huh???? Which corporations are out there dying to make preimptive moves to stop terrorism? Corporate citizens aren’t patriotic citizens. They exist only to make money. If their interests lie in stopping terrorism (say a responsible security company), then they’ll do it, if not (say a security company that can hire people more cheaply if they don’t have to do a criminal background check, i.e. most security companies), then they won’t – threat of terrorism or not. The trial lawyers don’t have anything to do with it. What, do you work for an insurance company or something, or has Edwards made you hate all trial lawyers (even Republican ones, there are many)?
#1876

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:21 pm, Pierre Legrand said:

hehe Hysteria, Lunacy, Get Real? Sure lets just fall asleep and let the bad men have fun killing us. While you believe that a takeover of a plane wont happen agaiin because the passengers wont allow it, a plane is still a marvelous weapons to aim at whatever you want to destroy. It is worth the effort to attempt…even the attempt accomplishes alot as far as disrupting our country. But a successful takeover, after all that has been done, will be devastating to our economy and to our self confidence.

I dont know how many Marshalls were on board but I hope they had a bunch because we can be sure that if those 14 were actual terrorists it would take a bunch to take them down. Especially if some of them had some sort of gas to disable those who attack them.

I tend to think this was a training run…

I tend to think its highly unlikely this was some sort of hoax put forth by Womans Wall Street Journal, one doesnt imagine throwing away millions of dollars in credibilty for a prank.

I tend to think that our government is just that dumb to allow questionable people aboard to see what they will do.

I tend to think that I have no problem admitting I am afraid, but that fear is not something that will disable me. Remember all sane people get scared, the brave ones saddle up for the fight anyway. My 3 children aboard would make me awfully brave.

I tend to think that the Terrorists view us as cowards and consider us beneath contempt, that will be their downfall.

I believe that Blogs will drive this story to be an embarrassment for the Bush administration that is as it should be. Norm Mineta is an embarrassment.

Pierre
#1877

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:31 pm, Beth Donovan said:

I have very little faith in the TSA. I have written them twice to complain about the lack of security at KCI – where the person checking ID’s got mixed up and let several people through without checking – those are the only ID checks you get in Kansas City.

I have flown to Detroit 3 times this year. The last time, on my way home, one of the people who was supposed to be checking IDs just waved people thru – no checking – I was among those people, and when I went to the TSA to inform them that he was letting people thru without checking, they said that he was not a TSA person so they could not tell him what to do.

This is no exaggeration of the truth.

I asked for the TSA supervisor, he said, oh, he’ll take note of it.

Arggghhh!!!

I have documented numerous failures (I often fly every week) of security and sent them to TSA. They usually send a form email back that is apparently sent to anyone.

At the same time, I also saw a security person at KCI force a woman to take off her blouse in public because it was a ’shirt jacket’, and all jackets have to be removed. (Kansas City International is exempt from having TSA security – they are allowed to have rent-a-security – bad move).

The woman was in tears. She had only a camisole on underneath, and one could see everything.

The airport screening portion of Homeland Security is a terrifying mess.
#1878

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:32 pm, wha? said:

For the record, lest my post above mislead you, I don’t think this is a hoax. I think this woman was genuinely frightened, I just think needlessly so. There’s a huge arab population around detroit and in Michigan anyway. It wouldn’t be abnormal to see that many arabs at once on a plane, whether from America or somewhere else.

Also, I don’t even think the next strike will be airplanes. Why do that, they have us spending billions of dollars a year on security in that industry. It’s a much harder target then it was three years ago. There are much softer targets – ports, sporting events, shopping malls, outdoor festivals (like Mardi Gras – totally easy target), protest marches of any stripe, ribbon-cutting ceremonies, regular traffic jams, bridges……I mean, the list goes on and on and on and if I keep typing it homeland security will be coming after me.

The thing is, we can’t walk around paranoid all the time. If you do that, then your life is still shattered from 9/11, and the terrorists are beating you every day. Being paranoid is bad, being vigilent is good, if you’re the type that can not go overboard with it…just being is best, though.
#1879

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:32 pm, MrsEener said:

Does anyone know what kind of instruments Middle Eastern bands are likely to use and how large they are. Like are they small enough to fit in an overhead bag? Most professional musicians will not check their instruments. It seems odd that only 2 out of 14 noticeably had their instruments with them.

I think at the very least they were playing a sadistic game with the passengers and crew and they should not have been allowed to do that. They were able to play out their entire game, whatever it was, without being stopped.
#1880

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:34 pm, Chris said:

Hey Real American

You are exactly what the terrorists are counting on. It is why they know they CAN do it again in the Post 9/11 era, because we have idiots like you that rally against any real measures to protect people. Screw you and your “I am more enlightened because I know some Arabs” attitude. You are just another ignorant liberal that is the enabler that might someday get my wife or child killed by some freaking Arab.

And I imagine that good, honest peaceful Arabs, that respect human life, (as most are) would be similarly nervous on that plane.
#1881

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:39 pm, icey said:

Here’s another thing to think about in regards to 14 guys hijacking one plane.

Sky marshalls use frangible bullets in their guns.

Frangible bullets don’t go through bodies, they stick with them.

I wonder if any of the guys mentioned in this story were strong enough to hold 150lbs of dead weight in front of them?
#1882

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:45 pm, unhappy said:

I tend to think that the government is taking away the dignity and rights of citizens in order not to offend Muslims. As long as my government has this attitude, I won’t fly. If everyone thought this way we wouldn’t have to put up with the danger of 14 Syrians acting like jerks on a plane.
#1883

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:48 pm, Shawn said:

Just a comment about the border with Canada being “WIDE OPEN”.

Well I don’t doubt it is easy to get around, but I recently spent two weeks in Canada (Vancouver) with a side trip to Seattle.

First as a kudos to the US, I’m from Philadelphia and the security in our airport is still much tighter than at other airports I’ve been to. By that I mean the screenings seem much more thorough than when I have been in Tampa, Atlanta and Detroit’s airports.

That said this whole border issue… Traveling into Canada the customs officials there wanted to see my various IDs, they wanted tickets… wanted to know where I was staying … if I had been there before… you name it. I’m not muslim by the way, don’t even look it. It was a very thorough questioning process and they actually looked myself and my fiancee directly in the eyes.

Traveling from Canada into the US (both by Plane back to Philly and my side trip to Seattle was by Bus) the US officials wanted to know about one thing, and one thing only – food (fruits, seeds, and veggies). They never took a second glance at my IDs, never asked for tickets or where I was staying. Or anything… they never looked at us very much and they just tried to keep the line moving. The US customs folks just seem largely overworked… most looked very very tired. (baggy, tired eyes and their speech was less confident.)

Maybe the West Coast is different. Although when I was in Detroit in 1998 and I travelled across to Windsor… going into Canada I saw a car having the seats ripped out at customs, so… I don’t think they are too shy about doing their job up there.

Anyway, for what it is worth I am just not buying that the US-CAN border is this rampant playland for muslim extremist.
#1884

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:51 pm, Paul H. said:

Perfnerd, why do you suppose there have not been airliners shot down all over the world in the last couple of years, by Russian man-portable surface to air missiles such as the SA-7? We keep hearing periodically about how there are thousands of them out there.

Such missiles have not been used more frequently (and successfully) in terrorist attacks IMO because they are a lot more complicated to maintain and use than an AK-47, an RPG — or an improvised explosive device.

The military doesn’t refer to them as weapons “systems” for nothing. They require complicated and specialized batteries and cooling devices to work, and they also need to be “benched” frequently by competent technicians to verify the electronic circuitry is working. I think rough handling and transport will induce faults that are undetectable to the eye.

I wouldn’t be surprised to find that shady Russian arms dealers who traffic in these things even deliberately induce minor faults in them, to keep them from being fully functional. Remember the two that were fired at the Israeli airliner in Africa a while back, but didn’t detonate?

It’s not that fanatical Islamists are incapable of learning how to maintain them; it’s that most of them find learning such technical kills “beneath” them. Now if they were to get dedicated maintenance support from a rogue regime, it would be different, but it’s not surprising to me that even countries such as Syria or Iran would not find such support to be in their national interest.
#1885

On July 16th, 2004 at 3:56 pm, michigan said:

The thing is that people have to think ahead of time what to do in these situations because at the moment this is happening we all tend to panic.

So think it through now — what would be an appropriate response to an event like this?

How about standing up and making an “embarrassing admission” –

“Excuse me everyone — I have a terrible case of constipation and diarrhea. I am going to the bathroom and may be in there for the rest of the flight. If anyone else has this affliction, maybe they should head to the bathroom RIGHT NOW. If any Americans need to use the bathroom, just knock and I’ll see what I can do. Sorry for the inconvenience.”

We have to start actually role playing what to do. Psychological studies show that people tend to try to ignore problems around them for fear of “making a fuss” and being embarrassed. Let’s not be embarrassed to death, people!
#1887

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:00 pm, sean said:

Given that these people were searched when they got off the plane and that nothing was found on them, they were innocent. In the country, at least for now, we presume people to be innocent until they are proven guilty. They had clean records, they had no guns, knives, or explosives on them, and yet you are all certain that they were terrorists.

If they didn’t have any explosives, that’s just because they were practicing! Are you all CIA agents? You sound like you’re ready to invade these folks based on no evidence. That sounds familiar.
#1888

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:10 pm, Walter said:

Sean- I can’t speak for the rest of the commenters but I think that at best we can only treat Jacobsen’s article as a “story” and the individuals described therein as “characters.” The story is best used as a topic of debate to wit we may somehow come to a better understanding of what is to be done about airline security and racial-profiling and such.

The guilt or innocence here is irrelevant, to debate it, doubly so.
#1889

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:18 pm, Walter said:

Regarding Kerry and the Patriot act as Colorado Conservative and Cabal of Yahoos brought up, I think it would be wise for you two to read up on exactly Kerry’s position on the patriot act.

Kerry voted for the patriot act. AND
Kerry is still for it!

From this great MSNBC article (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4839040/site/newsweek/):

“But in reality Kerry is not so far from Bush in his views on the Patriot Act. The Massachusetts senator claims he not only stands by his vote for the legislation, but that he authored most of the law�s money-laundering provisions and thinks some aspects of the act actually need strengthening (like improving intelligence information sharing). However, the two do differ on which provisions should be renewed, and which revised.”

The article then goes on to say that Kerry’s problem with the patriot act roots in its abuse for political espionage and such. In any case if you are strongly AGAINST the Patriot Act, John Kerry is not your ally here.
#1890

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:19 pm, Chris said:

So sean, by your logic any real terrorists don’t even have to pretend they are not terrorists. In fact, they can just stand up and make an announcement…

“Excuse us folks. For the rest of this flight we will be practicing for future terrorist attacks. We will be honing our skills for circumventing your petty security procedures and ironing out our tactics for real attacks in the future. However, since we are not actually going to do anything to this particular plane, we are in violation of no law and should not be impeded in any way by you Satanist infidels. Allah is great and thank you for your support.”

They did not have to have anything on them. Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime sean, maybe if you got your information from someplace other than “Law & Order SVU” you would know that.

In fact, if this little incident serves no other purpose than to make the liberals go batsh!t about harassing Arab bands, then that would make Arab bands a failsafe cover for real terrorists later.

And many of you have taken to saying that this women just got nervous because there were several Arabs on her flight and are completely ommitting the extnesive and specific information regarding their suspicious behavior througout the flight. They did not act like a band, they acted like terrorists and so only a freaking idiot would not take notice.

Terrorists have proven one thing, they are very intelligent and they absolutley know how to make liberals jump like puppets on a string. They will manipulate you into helping their cause. Unwitting fools.
#1891

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:24 pm, sean said:

Walter,
Fair point. The character of the author is a hysterical soccer mom who quotes Coulter, a supporter of domestic terrorists. That makes the narrator unreliable, in my opinion. The narrator does a good job of interpreting evidence in such a way that each action of the arabs is further indication that they are terrorists. Only at the end of the story, when everyone lives, is it revealed that they did not commit any acts of terrorism, and that the narrator’s terror was internal.

As the senate intelligence committee recently revealed, the buildup to the Iraqi invasion was partly the result of group think by the CIA. People saw supporting evidence everywhere they looked for it and ignored or misinterpreted any evidence contrary to their ideas.

What does this mean in terms of airline security? IMO, the cops, and marshalls are doing their jobs. While “aware Americans” hold hands and shiver in fear, the rest of us get on and off of planes without bombs in our carry ons.
#1892

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:24 pm, AST said:

What I found persuasive was the sense of danger that Annie and her husband, as well as the flight crew felt. We have an instinctual sense of danger that we can’t always articulate, and a lot of it has nothing to do with race. The look in the eyes can trigger it.

With all the details that the author gave, I’d have been worried too, and it bothers me that the crew or the air marshalls didn’t just examine the bags and personal belongings this “band” was carrying. If they were using the lavatories for praying, they should have told the flight crew and shown them the prayer rugs and instruments in advance. If they get huffy, maybe they shouldn’t be here earning money.
#1893

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:27 pm, sean said:

Chris,
I am glad that the marshalls shook the suspicious arabs down. That’s their job. Since no arrests were made, and nothing came of it, we can be sure that these men were not terrorists. This administration has no problem jailing foreign nationals and calling them grave threats to our security. If these guys aren’t being molested in Guantanamo by now, then they must be clean, since our hair-trigger police would love to announce the capture of a terrorist cell.
#1894

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:30 pm, sean said:

Chris,
I find it amusing that you need to attack my character just because you disagree with my views. It’s too bad we’re not on the senate floor, I love a little dirty talk.
#1895

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:31 pm, Duane said:

Re the “Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece.”

When I read that line earlier this morning (before updates 2 – 4) I thought it was a bit disingenuous to simply Google the name Annie Jacobsen and cast doubt onto her story by linking to AN Annie Jacobsen who writes about elves and unicorns. I was even going link to some some pretty racist stuff on a Star Trek Usenet site written by A Michelle Malkin to illustrate my point.

I wrote to the folks at Women’s Wall Street and received this reply:

“Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Absolutely NOT! Our Annie Jacobsen is absolutely not the same Annie Jacobsen at http://www.AnnieJacobsen.com. Annie will likely be appearing on a number of major new broadcasts starting on Monday, which will hopefully put this rumor to rest. Thank you again for informing us.”

Also, a quick thought on “another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism.”

It’s quite possible the group is training together and would break into smaller groups before striking.

One “team” could fly ahead of the other, placing key items in the plane. If they weren’t detected the second team would assemble the components and strike, assuring that the whole team wasn’t caught if something went wrong on either leg.
#1896

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:35 pm, Walter said:

Sean- excellent! My point was that we can’t know this story is 100% true so debating things as if it *were* true is just bad– I think you were kinda hitting on that point in your post too and my post was really directed at the flame war thats been going on regarding whether they were terrorists or not

And I agree, groupthink is dangerous and certainly alot of the things happening on that plane were going on in her head. But believe me when I read that story my hairs were raised on end and my heart rate increased– she really got me where it counted and if I were her on the plane and saw all the things she described it would have been hard for me not to freak out too For someone who is as paranoid as I the only thing I can do is tell myself that our security system is doing its best so I don’t live my life in fear.

When you are living your life in fear, living your life.. in.. *terror*. The terrorists, whose goal is to *create* terror, have won.
#1897

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:44 pm, Jaybo Simmon said:

Aw, gee, you think maybe The Washington Post is actually trying to run down as many leads on the story as possible before putting it in print, instead of tossing out unchecked and apparently untrue aspersions on all concerned, i.e., whether the author of the piece is “this” A. Jacobson, that is, a “Jungian,” and so what is she were? The Post, given its resources, might even be trying to track down and talk to these musicians/terrorists/whoever, which I know to you bloggers and jerk-off artists would be kinda of a novel thing to do.
J. Simmon
Houston, TX.
#1898

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:46 pm, eusebio said:

Sounds like an urban legend, seasoned with actual facts for added sense of accuracy, that has gone amok.

Why would they practice making a bomb in the air when they can practice in the security in their homes under simulated settings. And if they are going through the motions of practicing, why not go all the way through and MAKE the bomb?
This type of fear is the reason most White people cross the street when they see a young black or latino male. So sad.
#1899

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:50 pm, wha? said:

Duane,

Yes, you are absolutely right – there are all kinds of ways that 14 terrorists could collaborate to train together to build a bomb for a plane/on a plane/on several planes. Really, there are as many ways as your imagination is broad – and that’s the point. If you go around looking at every group of arabs as terrorists, then you’re constantly going to be freaking out over terrorists (especially if you’re flying around Michigan and Detroit in particular). In this particular case, the feds grabbed the guys, searched them, questioned them (and I assume checked out their story – hell, even the local police check out my story when I get pulled over in my wife’s car), and found that they were clean. Lesson to be learned – every time a hot chick freaks out doesn’t mean a plane is going down.

Of course, it’s still fun (in a house of horrors sort of way)to frighten oneself by thinking of of all the ways they could be bad guys, and all the ways that we could be heroes by overcoming them – that’s mostly what everyone is doing here. And why not, it’s friday afternoon.

On racial profiling: Next time a white terrorist blows up a building, does that mean all the whities are going to be profiled?
#1900

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:54 pm, eusebio said:

Dear Wha?

Good point, if that happens will we question ourselves about the potential radical militia members that MIGHT be posing as a country-western band, also flying on my flight? To paraphrase, if a terrorist can learn to make a bomb, why can’t a terrorist learn to play a jug and fiddle?
#1901

On July 16th, 2004 at 4:55 pm, Breaker said:

Fourteen Syrians and several Air Marshalls on one flight – nothing going on here. Move along. It’s just a terrorism convention in Las Vegas.

Corrie, Fake a medical emergency? What a heart attack? And get hit by the on-board defibrillator? No way.

What? Fourteen Syrians? A Band? Two wearing dark suits and sunglasses? Next thing you know they with claim that they’re on a mission from God.
#1902

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:00 pm, Chris said:

Sean, I apologize to you, I was worked up from a heated discussion on another blog and it leaked through. But that other guy sure deserved it though!

I truly appreciate the other side that wants to make sure that we do not go too far in one direction. But if we have to error, I would rather be apologizing to some honest Syrians for an excessive shake down than to 250 families for failing to shake anybody down. If everone is alive we can make amends.
#1903

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:07 pm, ruprecht said:

Two Comments. First, someone above mentioned “IF people are flying as a group, why are their seats dispersed throughout the plane?” I can see how a nearly full flight might force a group to split up, but then the Air Marshalls also managed to get seats. Were people bumped? Or was it just random open seating scattered about the flight?

Second, If you get drunk and disturb a flight you get jail time. At what point does suspicious behavior that causes fear in the flight crew and other passengers equal getting drunk and saying something stupid?
#1904

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:12 pm, 6Gun said:

Sean illustrates the common leftwing tactic of coming to self-serving premature conclusions by irrationally re-interpreting and then discounting the facts in question.

“Given that these people were searched when they got off the plane and that nothing was found on them, they were innocent.” This is an after-the-fact reality that never played it’s hand on 9/11, and that is the entire point sean conveniently dismisses, presumably so as do what? Undermine efforts at notably sloppy air security! Were this but-they-got-off-the-plane-clean mentality how we factored air security in the first place…there’d be no air security.

“That sounds familiar.” Here sean presumably alludes to the common leftwing stereotype of Federal jack-booted Republican brownshirted child-beaters, another instrument of disordered, politically correct thinking rooted in elitist Leftist academia. This resembles the ever-popular “drumbeat of war,” Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, and other Hillary-esque fantasies used to demean the Right without evidence.

“…a hysterical soccer mom who quotes Coulter, a supporter of domestic terrorists.” Aah, we get even closer to the source of sean’s hysterically irrational self-justification…

“…the rest of us get on and off of planes without bombs in our carry ons.” And here we have additional justification�at the implied expense of future innocent lives (were it that any of “the rest of us” had disembarked from the flights that terminated into the Towers.)

“If these guys aren’t being molested in Guantanamo by now, then they must be clean, since our hair-trigger police would love to announce the capture of a terrorist cell.” And here our sean follows-up with another baitingly irrational leftwing stereotype.

And after all of these non sequitors — depending as they do on irrationally positive assumptions about likely potential enemies as well as the usual leftwing stereotypical attacks of differing points of view and reputations — sean casually signs off with a little traditional leftwing preemptive strike of his own: “I find it amusing that you need to attack my character just because you disagree with my views.”

Interesting charge, coming from such a public display of pointless victimization in the name of�political correctness?
#1905

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:24 pm, James Kotthoff said:

In reading these comments I see flaws in the counter arguments.
To Eusebio…about crossing the street it would depend on if the black or latino male was acting in a manner that made me uncomfortable.
To all those that keep saying about Detroit having the largest Arab concentration in the country. The problem is that they where not flying on US passports but Syrian which in itself is a factor in detreming if they need closer screening.
As far as the truth of the story or not..irrelevant to the discussion. If I was one a plane with a group of passengers that acted this way it would not matter if they were middle eastern or from the midwest. It would be a cause for concern.
Concerning racial profiling…if 9-11 involved 19 white men we would not be having this concern if the government started looking at white men closer but in our PC ridden society you don’t look at middle eastern men because it might be unfair…GIVE ME A BREAK! You look at the most likely suspects first.
#1906

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:28 pm, jms said:

If they were musicians, perhaps the “oblong object” was a bong and they were taking turns going into the bathroom to get high.
#1907

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:36 pm, Dave p said:

Well, it looks like I’ve found out where all the wackos hang out.

Listen folks, perhaps if you all stop watching FOX news and reading Ann Coulter you might realize that there are, in fact, a heck of a lot of different cultures out there. Not all of them want to kill you, regardless of what you may think.

It’s quite obvious that this story illustrates the views of someone who’s first reaction is to jump to xenophobic conclusions based on what she’s been fed on the nightly news.

The fact that she writes:

“As aware Americans, my husband and I exchanged glances, and then continued to get comfortable. I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well.”

and has the gaul, no perhaps ignorance to follow with:

“As boarding continued, we watched as, one by one, most of the Middle Eastern men made eye contact with each other. They continued to look at each other and nod, as if they were all in agreement about something.”

Tell me, is there anyone else reading this post that actually sees how ironic that statement is? Are all of you so insulated as to assume guilt before innocence?

What a sad country you have become. A pity.
#1908

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:40 pm, wha? said:

James-

Right you are! 9/11 didn’t involve any white men, and I would agree that you gotta do a litte “looks like a duck” type observation if you’re going to get anywhere with counter-terrorism against fundamentalist muslims.

My comment was more lighthearted, and not meant to pooh-pooh profiling as beyond the pale; but there is a core truth to the comment in that it points out the scariness that domestic “white” terrorists take away one of the more obvious tools we have for detecting terrorists – profiling. Remember, TMV was white (even if you buy into the arab-connection theory, TMV was the ‘triggerman’ and he was an all-american ex-military whitey).

None of that has to do with this particular story, except to point out that while profiling might be a powerful tool, it’s useless in some situations. Besides, as I said before, I think terrorism in the skys is kind of passe. I imagine they’ve moved on to newer, softer targets.
#1909

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:41 pm, 6Gun said:

Uh, dave p, it’s “gall.” But seriously, where are you writing from? Anyplace that lost 3,000 civilian lives in a few hours within the last few years?

And can you comment on how we *should* weigh those 3,000 souls against the unimaginable horrors of political incorrectness? It’s a tough decision; do enlighten us.
#1910

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:44 pm, Lisa said:

Yes Sean is quite the compassionate lib. I read Ann Coulter all of the time and i cannot imagine what the heck he is talking about,domestic terrorist? huh? What a maroon!!
#1911

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:48 pm, Tim Keller said:

You people are frightening beyond belief. This woman is obviously mental; when she & her husband exchange glances, they are being “alert Americans”. When a group of Brown People do the same exact thing, they are obviously building a bomb in the bathroom. The moment I read the bit about all going to the john in sequence, I knew it was for daily prayer. She even says the first guy had a rolled up prayer mat.

Seriously, when do we break out the yellow stars (or maybe blue moons this time?) & start sewing them on people’s jackets? I want to know where the line starts so I can join King Gustav of Sweden & get one sewn on my own.

Tim
#1912

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:49 pm, Scott said:

My question is this: Is our government probing our homeland security system on a daily basis in a thousand different ways to understand our vulnerabilities? If not why, I mean my guess is you could hire a bunch of frat-boys to infiltrate our homeland defenses and really learn what our vulnerabilities are. Of course that would only happen if the bureacracies wanted to learn about their own ineptness, fat chance.
#1913

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:53 pm, Perfnerd said:

Paul H.
These are shoulder-fired military weapons that are about 30lbs and 5 ft long. China (HN-5), Pakistan (Anza), Egyptians (Ayn as Saqr), and US (Stinger) also manufacture similar weapons in addtion to Russia (SA-7, SA-18). It may be rocket science, literally, but these aren’t delicate systems. They are ruggedized weapons meant for field use.

That these types of things don’t happen is more an indication of how difficult it is plan, coordinate, and successfully execute – contrary to what Hollywood action movies would have us believe.

BTW, how did the WWB writer know they were Syrian passports? I’ve seen a fair number of passports in my travels abroad and unless I’ve seen it before, or get really close, they aren’t that easy to distinguish.

Still believe the article is hysterical paranoia that is more devisive and counter productive than usefull.
#1914

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:54 pm, Stefan said:

Ann Coulter wrote that she wished that Timothy McVeigh had blown up the New York Times headquarters in Times Square instead of the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. So there you have it: Coulter advocating a terrorist bombing in the heart of New York City.
#1915

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:55 pm, wha? said:

Good call Tim, I never even considered they might be going in for prayer. That does make sense, doesn’t it (and pretty obvious, as well). The whole story is completely unverifiable without more facts from the Marshalls, but even then, if you’re convinced they were plotting, it can’t be disproved, and if you convinced otherwise, well, that can’t be disproved either. This story is really more instructive-entertainment then anything else, apparently.
#1916

On July 16th, 2004 at 5:57 pm, Stefan said:

Here’s the exact quote: “My one regret with Timothy McVeigh is that he did not go to the New York Times Building.” So she didn’t regret that this terrorist murdered over a hundred Americans — she just wishes he’d murdered hundreds more in New York.
#1917

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:02 pm, Dan Spencer, California Yankee said:

I have felt secure about flying post 9-11 because of the “General Militia of Flight 93,” the reaction of the passengers and crew to the �Shoe Bomber,� and the assurance given to a friend who is a flight attendant that several pilots have said they will not allow their plane to be commandeered by hijackers. Even though everyone lived happily ever after in Jacobsen’s story, it still shook my feeling of security.
#1918

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:08 pm, tioedong said:

Back in the 1990’s when we were living in the Philippines, a Philippine airlines plane “disappeared” over the south China Sea…a couple weeks later, a bomb went off while a similar plane was taxing down the runway; with the usual Filippino efficiency, it was two hours late for takeoff, so was still on the ground when the bomb blew.
But it never got much publicity. Don’t think they ever caught who placed it there either.
But the moral is: Just a bomb won’t work. You need terror with it. Say, a live bomb, a bunch of scared passengers on the phone with family, and CNN/Fox/MSNBC reporters hyperventillating…
The whole episode makes me wonder why the pilot didn’t just “fake” some air turbulance and order everyone in their seats with seatbelts on…
#1919

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:10 pm, Scott said:

Chris, the facts point to certain conservatives being the most easily manipulated of us. It’s only fear that could have coerced them into buying the Bush regime’s case for war in Iraq.
#1920

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:16 pm, Jim said:

Concerning the inefficient point; one of the issues often overlooked is the adversary we are dealing with today is not yesterday’s terrorist. They are more dedicated, better trained and quite willing and trained to do extensive rehearsals and plan months and even years in advance. They are patient- we are not. The goal is to see just how much they can get away with and where. They knew full well they could get box cutters on the aircraft they flew into the WTC. Like it or not, it was a masterful strategy-buying a bomb for the price of a few airline tickets.

During the planning for that attack they had to also make an operational decision that they could not get an American pilot, under any conditions, to fly an aircraft into the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. No American was going to leave that legacy. That meant they had to devise a plan to get around that issue- the answer is simple- learn to fly the aircraft yourself. Take flying lessons and use computer simulations. You don’t need to take off and land, merely fly once the aircraft is airborne. Some were generally lousy pilots and even their instructors called them “Dumb and Dumber.” Others were competent enough to perform the mission. You only need one competent pilot who can descend and steer. That tactic wasn’t clearly on our radar scope. We were still planning for and dealing with scenarios involving a hijacking to Cuba.

The bottom line is we have a short memory and have to make some serious decisions about how to protect ourselves. This is a revolution and we are the adversary. Terrorism is just a tactic being used to get their way. It may be to get the Phillipine government to stop supporting our efforts in Iraq or to cause us to spend billions on security- it is a tactic that can be emnployed very effectively if we don’t have the will and sense to fight it.

The first step is to understand that a single entry point (once you get through security in the US at one airport you are secure from then on out)is not security at all- it is a convenience. I travel a lot and in doing so I see some very inefficient and ineffective security taking place daily. I see some places where they have far too many TSA agents- they are stepping on each other. Then I get to Atlanta and see just the opposite and we get to weave are way through the food court the lines are so long. The signage and the process was poor. There appeared to be no obvious management. There should be improvement that is visible when you do this every day. It should get better- it should improve- it hasn’t- it doesn’t. Shame on the TSA management team at ATL.

Security isn’t just about hardware- American fancy machines and it shows- it is about individual intelligence and being trained to ask the right questions. While the answers may be right, it may also give concerns about the individual and their veracity. I asked a TSA agent why they didn’t ask good questions and the answer was they didn’t want to violate an individual’s privacy. However, in the next few minutes they were about to hand search my suitcase and my dirty laundry. Now that seems like a real contradiction as to what is privacy and what is not.

How did a female Customs Inspector focus on Ressam (the 1999 potential attack on LAX)? By a asking questions at the US border and observing the indvidual’s behavior. It was December and it was cold in Port Washington and Ressam was sweating profusely. That is what one might call a pre-incident indictor. Had he been getting on an airplane she may have been constrained. But this was 1999 and she did what she should have done- asked more questions. He got hinky and tried to flee. Hey another real clue.

Consider how a single, 21 year old El Al security agent foiled an attack on an El Al 747 enroute to Israel. By asking the right questions and staying with them when the answers didn’t add up. She was a mule- she didn’t know she was about to carry about 4 lbs of SEMTEX on board that aircraft in her carryon. It was to be detonated via a timing device built into a small Commodore, handheld, scientific calculator. It would have taken that full aircraft and everyone on board out of the sky. The real perpetrators- the Syrian government. She had passed through British security without a problem. Her items even made it through El Al’s security equipment. What she couldn’t get passed was a trained agent who asked all the right questions and didn’t like the answers.

Who knows if there is any connection here but if this gets us talking and making changes then it is for the good. At this point we cannot even be absolutely certain this event happened as Annie describes it. Somehow I do have a hard time believing that an article that is this sensitive, published on the Women’s Wall Street site, wasn’t properly validated. But time will tell. Regardless- we are not secure and we need to do more.
#1921

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:18 pm, wtf said:

I am as liberal as the day is long, and I’ll vote for Kerry (barring something really crazy) in November. However, a wife and husband exchanging glances is quite different than 14 people seated in various spots around the plane making notable eye-contact. Even if they are a band. Their actions were suspicious, and being familiar with Muslim praying, that’s not what this sounded like at all.

Do I believe that Brown People get a pretty bad shake in this country now? Yes. Do I like racial profiling (be it black or Arab or any ethnicity)? No. BUT, Ms. Jacobsen’s story is VERY alarming, and I really hope that the mainstream media picks up on this soon so we can get more information about this and other plans. (Seriously, why has there been NOTHING yet?)

Given Ms. Jacobsen’s account, even though I am a liberal, devoutly opposed to racial profiling, and married to an American Muslim of Arab descent, I would have been convinced the plane was going down (I would have been the woman crying 2 rows back). Yes, there were swarms of air marshals on the flight – that does nothing for the other passengers who are worried for their lives and are nearing heart attacks. Although, in fairness, there is no better way for us to learn what might be planned than to have marshals witness the whole dry run – I just would’ve hated to be one of their guinea pigs.

Long story short, I don’t believe that Ms. Jacobsen’s story should be dismissed off-hand as an urban legend or the rant of an Ann Coulter-loving soccer mom, nor should it be embraced as a reason to lock all the Brown people up and make them fly one to an airplane. But I do believe it merits serious investigation from both the government and media.

Until they can explain her, and others’ recent similar stories, I’m not flying. That story is some scary stuff.
#1922

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:19 pm, Dave P said:

6Gun: “Anyplace that lost 3,000 civilian lives in a few hours within the last few years?”

Um, you act like this is something unusual… how quaint. You are aware of the term “argumentum ad hominem”, are you not? Right then, let’s continue.

Unimaginable horrors of political incorrectness. I suppose to many of you this is what *entrenched constitutional rights* have become these days in the US. You know the ones, Ammendments 1, 4, 6…

Like I said, a pity.
#1923

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:27 pm, Dave P said:

wtf: The key sentence being “I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well.”

So again, how are several shifty folk eying certain passengers, PASSING NOTES, whispering to attendents not considered to be irrational, while those few brown folk who happen to be praying in the bathroom are?

It’s all in your very confused heads folks. There’s nothing to see here, move along…
#1924

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:27 pm, 6Gun said:

Ann Coulter, had she called for the bombing of a lemonade stand on the corner, much less the Times building, wouldn’t be around to publish anymore. Amazing how “nuanced” Leftwingers suddenly lose all perspective of journalistic irony, of which Ann is Queen, when it’s their ox being gored.

And I’d be interested in a list of the *US Congressmen* who, with the overwhelming backing of the American people, “bought” the “Bush regime’s case for war in Iraq…”

Intentional misrepresentation; Leftwing strategy.
#1925

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:33 pm, 6Gun said:

Dave P, are relative bodycount outcomes the basis for *your* international policy? Would you inflict same on the US?

Perhaps inform me of *your* threshold for acceptable loss of life. And under which conditions it applies.

You sound like another arrogant leftist lecturing morality and ethics to the Unwashed…

Thankfully, your opinion is in the extreme minority…and this is a Constitutional Republic containing a democratic populace with certain standards. Is yours?

If you want to debate global cultural values as the basis of *American* security you’re in the wrong place.
#1926

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:50 pm, george gaskell said:

The fact that we have a law enforcement community that wouldn’t take action under this situation is just insane.

The problem can be traced to an ill-considered 1914 Supreme Court decision that radically changed the original interpretation of the Fourth Amendment.

Before the law was changed (by an activist, liberal Supreme Court, of course), those who were wrongly searched (or seized) had the right to make a civil claim for compensation. But if the search produced evidence of a crime, then the accused criminal was “estopped” from complaining about the search. In other words, a guilty person had no standing to complain about a search or arrest that produced evidence of his guilt.

The system worked very well — it punished the guilty and compensated the innocent.

Then, the Court made the stupid decision to change the rule. Now, any so-called unreasonable search, even if it produces genuine evidence of a crime, means that the evidence is suppressed and the criminal is, in all likelihood, allowed to go free.

And to make matters worse, those who are wrongly searched no longer have the right to complain by filing a civil suit for the trouble they are caused.

If the Court had never made this stupid change in the law, then the police wouldn’t think twice about searching or arresting people who are acting in an obviously suspicious manner.
#1927

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:50 pm, WV.Hillbilly said:

Let’s pause a moment and take the following test. It will prove once
and for all that focusing attention on one group of people will not deal
with terrorism.:

1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
massacred by:

(a) Olga Korbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzenegger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

2. In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:

(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

3. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in
Lebanon by:

(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

4. In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:

(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Dan Rather making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year
old American passenger in a wheelchair was murdered and thrown overboard by:

(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy
diver was murdered by:

(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:

(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:

(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Martha Stewart
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

9. In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed
by:

(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Chelsea Clinton
(c) The World Wrestling Federation
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and
thousands of people were killed by:

(a) Bugs Bunny
(b) Wile E. Coyote
(c) Mr Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

11. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:

(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:

(a) Bonnie and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40

As any fool can see, the people who perpetrated these atrocities have
nothing in common with each other.
#1928

On July 16th, 2004 at 6:54 pm, David said:

Why would a Syrian be mouthing anything to his Syrian buddy in English?? “NO”??

I wonder what Syrian / Arabic word when mouthed looks like “NO” in English??
#1929

On July 16th, 2004 at 7:03 pm, Beth said:

Piranha, “No” in Arabic is “LAH”, when accompanied by a shaking of the head and hand gestures, it can easily be understood as a “NO”, even by a non-arabic speaking person just by looking .

Since when do Muslims need to go to the bathroom to pray? There is not enough room in an airliner bathroom to prostrate yourself in the proper position for Muslim prayer. In the middle eastern countries I’ve been in, they take out their prayer mats in the middle of the street and start praying (if they aren’t near a mosque, that is).
#1930

On July 16th, 2004 at 7:14 pm, Ceilig said:

I don’t think it’s for praying. Islam allows for travelling muslims to reduce the number of prayers they have to say in a day, since it is difficult and inconvenient to do it correctly. I don’t think a bathroom is sufficiently clean enough to pray properly, anyway.

Some muslims don’t reduce the number of prayers they do while travelling… but I really really really can’t see someone being able to do a good, clean pray in a tiny airplane bathroom!
#1931

On July 16th, 2004 at 8:14 pm, Micaiah Buamgarten said:

Amen Gordon. This is worse then one of those TV reality shows. The fat that this lady has to validate her “awareness” by stateing she flew to India is remenicent of when people told me that they have been to black neighborhoods before. Alas, I give you all what you really need: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/
#1932

On July 16th, 2004 at 8:25 pm, Joe Mama said:

The answer to the ‘rabs congregating near the loo is simple:

Band Had The Runs (Wings soundtrack, naturally)
#1933

On July 16th, 2004 at 8:31 pm, Kansas Girl said:

So many have suggested that these individuals were involved in prayer activities that I have to ask, does the average Muslim spend 4 hours praying in 4 minute intervals? I admit, it is not a religion/belief system that I am well versed in, last time I took a class on the subject THAT was not one of the five tenets of Islam. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
#1934

On July 16th, 2004 at 8:42 pm, Grizzilla said:

I have a couple questions regarding this whole story. Annie Jacobsen was just on a radio show in Seattle and I was a little disappointed at the softball questions she was asked.

Here are a couple I would have asked:

If you are a reporter, why did it take almost a month before the story was ran?
Other than yourself, can you provide a single other person to corroborate your story?
If the Federal Air Marshal program is as underfunded and as skeleton staffed as they claim, how could there be so many on your particular flight?
How in the world is a flight attendant writing something less suspicious than the husband of a lady who keeps staring at everyone and thinking eye contact is a bad thing?
If there really were multiple air marshals on board, why did they even need their description?
If the proper authorities had wanted people�s statements wouldn�t they have rounded up everyone?

This woman did not even sound like a credible person. The radio host had to prompt and it even seemed like he was reminding her of the main points of her story and when he would ask her for analysis she kept saying �It is not my place to speculate� or �if you read between the lines of the story you will understand� She also seemed a little too excited to be giving out her website at every opportunity (a website by the way that only has 1 other story written by this esteemed writer, and also a site that the editorial staff had to debate over running this story)

Just sooooo many holes in this story I half expected the last like to say �Forward to everyone in your address book or you will have bad luck for 9 years�
#1935

On July 16th, 2004 at 9:38 pm, Chris said:

Michelle did a pretty solid job of getting verification that the situation took place, at least to the point of making Annie’s account credible.

WV. Hillbilly, how dare you bring logic and past evidence into this! It is only fair that we consider all people suspects in acts of terror. The Smurfs will be deposed on Tuesday to determine if they we involved in the Nick Berg beheading. And I have it on good authority that the Korean Sun-Il was beheaded by Kobe Bryant, but he says it was consentual.

Assuming it was Muslims males based simply on the fact that they did it on tape is profiling.
#1936

On July 16th, 2004 at 9:57 pm, Barry said:

9/11 could happen once a month, every month, and I’d still be more likely to die in a car crash than from one of the monthly terrorist attacks (although the odds would be close).

Terrorist attacks don’t scare me.

The willingness, even eagerness, to suspend the ideas and principles embodied in the Constitution for the appearance of safety is what scares me.

Singling out a minority, Middle Easterners, due to the actions of a small percentage of that minority can only alienate a larger number of Middle Easterners and make America less safe.
#1937

On July 16th, 2004 at 10:15 pm, Forrest said:

Alright, most of you people have no idea what you are talking about.

What is the job of an Air Marshal? What is each and every of one them trained in specifically? Preventing crime on airliners. Period. The many of you who say “well they should have stopped them” have no room to talk, you have not been trained for such situations like these people have. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, its their job, and with our nation so concerned about terrorism, you better believe they are ready to act when they see a threat.

Also, since there were warnings in place, the air marshals from this story obviously were aware of what was going on.

Additionally, I strongly suspect that these “musicians” were known passengers, thats why there were MULTIPLE Air Marshals aboard. Its very difficult to get 14 people together as a group if they are flying standby these days, since airlines have cut way back on flights due to profit losses.

Lastly, don’t forget, in the US, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of race. Those are my thoughts, let the flame war commence.
#1938

On July 16th, 2004 at 10:32 pm, MrGrumpyDrawers said:

Syrian band? Who were they going to play for? Find that out. If for some Arab-owned nightclub, maybe. But if not, then the ‘band’ story is a front. From my experience, Arab music – especially with vocalist – is to non-Arab ears like hearing a cat being eviscerated.
#1939

On July 16th, 2004 at 10:34 pm, Stefan said:

Back to Ann Coulter — Coulter says crazy things all the time. The fact that she’s allowed to publish is a testament to the First Amendment, not to the soundness of her views. If you don’t believe she said what she said about McVeigh, just Google it. You’ll find the statement soon enough.

And as to the defense that it’s merely “irony,” if someone on the left, say, Eric Alterman, had written “my one regret about Osama Bin Laden was that he didn’t blow up Fox News” would you take it as an example of “journalistic irony”?
#1940

On July 16th, 2004 at 10:40 pm, Forrest said:

Another thing… its definitely our air marshals aren’t people like those of you said you would have “tied” these Syrian passengers to their seats…

If the Air Marshals were made up of people like those who of you who said you would have jumped into action, the US would been even less safe, as your actions would cause even more of the world to hate us.
#1941

On July 16th, 2004 at 11:30 pm, Fensty said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t I read a lot of stories about how Detroit has one of the largest middle-eastern populations in America? So, is it so far-fetched that a band that specializes in middle-eastern music might go there? Might have one-way tickets because they don’t know how long the gig will last? Or, sure, it’s also possible there is something sinister going on. I can’t read that story, though, and not see several common urban legend vectors…the “I noticed it” person, the “I was confided in by someone In Authority” and the “I was asked to help out because I was trusted by the person In Authority” bits. It’s just not plausible. Being alert when travelling is a good idea. Watching and remembering what you see is too, don’t get me wrong.
#1942

On July 17th, 2004 at 12:39 am, Dave said:

I think that in the interests of safety, all carry on luggage should be banned, and i mean all, whatever the inconvenience. We can survive the flight without our material objects, we might not survive it if we insist on allowing them to be brought onboard. Exceptions could be made for people with verifiable medical needs and young babies, but only by vetting them thoroughly. Lets remove all possibilities of weapons coming on board. I would be quite happy to go along with this policy.I am sure most people would be also. Just store your damn stuff in the hold, if necessary. Whats your life worth???? People need to wise up and fast, these vile( Muslim Fanatics) are after us. They mean to kill all of us. They are not religious in the normal sense, they are simply, hateful fanatics. They have no regard whatsoever for the sancity of life. Does not matter that you are 8 or 80, all(US) are infidels and deserve to die. This is their stated policy. I will harass any group of Arabs i ever see acting suspiciously on a plane. I will not go into buildings like the poor unfortunates did on 9/11.
#1943

On July 17th, 2004 at 1:39 am, PainterDave said:

Regardless of the veracity of the account, it raises the question of what would you or I do if confronted by this situation. Were I to view the described activities, and were I to note that those around myself shared equal concern about “the band”, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would NEVER have sat idly by, comforting my wife with soothing words. As others here have stated, I would have interfered, big time. Yaba, I would’a got in between ‘em, would’a jostled ‘em. I probably would have loudly started a conversation about how much I respect Todd Beemer. I would have got in yellowshirts face, asking him was he having a good trip, do you have any kids, wanna see photos of my kids? If foreign nationals are allowed to stand and roam, damn straight old painter Dave gonna do some roaming of his own. It is incumbant on us all to be diligent and aggressive in any instance such as this. Were I the husband of the writer, with the lives of my wife and son in the balance, I certainly would have done a damn site more than whisper to a stewardess. Todd Beemer is one of my heros in this new age we live in. I repeat, it is incumbant on us all to be diligent and ready to intervene.
#1944

On July 17th, 2004 at 2:14 am, PainterDave said:

So, I just showed my wife my post, she said, “Damn straight, Boy” Donna said, “Dude, while you went aft, I’d go forward”. She is a georgeous 5ft11 beautifal blonde, and I guarentee she would’a got in the face of Mr. Business suit in 1st class, seat 2a. Her confidence is high, and so are her skills at rattling men’s cages. She aggreed that the best strategy would have been to start a planewide discussion of the heroism of Tod Beemer. His heroic acts could even serve America well after his ultimate sacrifice. All it would take would be an aggresive rousing of the passengers, to thwart what was obviously a nefarious plot. Dang, they oughta include this speech during the preflight instructions. “Oh, by the way, remember Todd Beemer!” That would be awesome. When I think of the medeival minded enemy, my blood boils. My nephew is over there, I have no real shot at defeating the terrorist bastards who target women and children specificly. I would gladly go down in flames if I had one shot at preventing a homicide bombing. Right now, the only thing I can do, is ask myself, who would Osama rather see elected? Bush or Kerrey? The answer is obvious, that the terrorists would much rather see a weak, wishy washy isolationist elected, so that the terrorists could advance their plan to destroy the West. It is interesting , though, that they have no plan to create or embrace freedom. And as the terrorist hordes rolled over the terrain of JFKerry’s weak America, as they arrived in Hollywood, and confronted Micheal Moore drinking wine with Whoopie and Sean Penn, and tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon, as all the leftist radicals smiled at the advancing hordes, Osama would say “Kill ALL the Americans, especially the weak decadent ones!”.
#1945

On July 17th, 2004 at 2:43 am, Kathy_in_WA said:

Holy Cr*p Dave,

Where the heck do you think you are living….Afghanistan? This is America! I’ll be d*mned if I give up my right to board a plane with BOTH my purse, AND a carry-on containing snacks, medications, change of clothes, jewelry, toiletries, book, DVD player, and stitching project (no scissors req’d.). Especially since such a ludicrous abrogation of my rights won’t GUARANTEE anyone’s safety. Anything that humans can devise, other humans will (sooner or later) evade. There are already a number of non-metallic weapons that can pass undetected through any screening process we have now. No, I will NOT advertise them here. There is no absolute safety Dave. Get over it.

But if safety at the price of freedom is acceptable to you, can I come over to your house and force you to install special handrails in your shower, near your toilet, and anyplace else I think might be “risky”? How about removing all the throw rugs in your house? Can I replace all your glassware with plastic? For Pete’s sake! You’re more likely to be SERIOUSLY injured in your own home, than to have even a relative directly harmed by terrorist activity. Unless of course, you give in to your fears, and let the terrorists change our nation into the totalitarian state they seem to wish for themselves.

I AM NOT PC. I believe ANY “suspicious” person should be checked-out to the full limit of the law. No quotas, no limits, and no “free passes” for prosthetic limbs, wheelchairs, eye-patches, crutches, braces, or casts Kansas Girl’s experience was appalling, but a perfect example of the disjointed, inconsistent application of the so-called �security policies” we now have. Before I give these agencies (or the airlines) any further powers, they must PROVE they can administer the ones they already have, in an appropriate and consistent manner. They have not done so yet, and I’m NOT holding my breath while I wait for them to do so in the future.

I neither know nor care if the situation truly happened as this woman described it. For certain, this “author” has no understanding of the difference between a “1-way ticket” and an “open-jaw ticket”. The latter is frequently used by artists and lecturers, to arrange multiple stops with no back-tracking. To me, her account more closely resembled Penelope Pureheart in a Saturday serial, than a legitimate journalistic effort. But as mentioned before, it DOES have great importance as a catalyst� for discussion and for an examination of what we�re doing and why. Let�s not forget�just because she felt afraid or intimidated, does not mean her fears were rational, realistic, or justified. She�s entitled to her feelings, but that doesn�t mean I�m obligated to do a d*mn thing about them if they are not supported by facts.

Lest you feel I’ve been attacking you personally, be aware that I deleted all the remarks I WANTED to make about not sitting near anyone on a plane who refused to carry-on a bag with clothes and basic toiletries in case of flight delays. Ewwww.

Kathy in WA
#1946

On July 17th, 2004 at 2:50 am, Kathy_in_WA said:

AMEN to PainterDave! TWICE! Your wife sounds terrific. But, not all women need to be 5′11″ and gorgeous to behave as your wife would do under these circumstances. Even a short, old, overweight broad can get the job done. As you mentioned….it’s all about the attitude. And this 2nd ammendment woman has got attitude in spades.

Kathy
#1947

On July 17th, 2004 at 3:15 am, reflections said:

When my husband and flew last summer, we were searched head to toe – with me having to take off my shoes, my belt. A hand-held scanner was waved up and down my body, our luggage emptied out and gone through piece by piece. Similar searches have been performed every time either and/or both of us have flown anywhere in the last couple of years (and we fly several times a year), despite both of us obviously being middle-aged Americans with Southern accents. I’m 5′0″ tall and redheaded; my husband is 6′2″ and blonde.

However, last summer while we were being searched extensively, a group of 8-10 Muslim men in full Arab “costume” sailed right through with no checks of any kind save walking through the metal detector.

There are space-age ceramic knives that are undetectable by a metal detector, knives that are in fact superior to metal ones.

Prior to reading the article referenced in the blog today, I flew to New Orleans from Ohio. I sailed through “checkpoint” with merely walking through a metal detector. Unless there are some serious changes in U.S. policy, I’ve ridden on my last plane for the foreseeable future.
#1948

On July 17th, 2004 at 3:16 am, george baas said:

What utter nonsense. ‘Dry run’ with
14 guys behaving as suspiciously as
possible.

This AJ character seems to live in
a fantasy world. See for yourselves.

http://www.anniejacobsen.com/

I like MM when she speaks out
about immigration issues but she seems
to share the dubious ‘accuracy’ standards of Faux News.
#1949

On July 17th, 2004 at 3:48 am, daktari said:

Check out the seating chart of a Northwest 757-300:

http://www.seatguru.com/northwest/B753.shtml

Unless you have a neck like a giraffe, there is no way to see everything the author claims.
#1950

On July 17th, 2004 at 3:51 am, george baas said:

Daktari wrote:

Unless you have a neck like a giraffe, there is no way to see everything the author claims.

=============================

See her website. She has visions
and it worked for her since she was
a kid.
#1951

On July 17th, 2004 at 6:12 am, octane said:

oh my god!
Think of the children!!
*runs round in circles gripped by hysteria*