TERROR IN THE SKIES (CONTINUED)
Regarding Annie Jacobsen’s intriguing article, I just got word from Dave Adams of the Federal Air Marshals Service (FAM). Adams confirmed that he spoke to Annie Jacobsen, was quoted accurately in her story, and confirmed some of the basic facts outlined in her article (there were 14 Syrians on the flight; they were questioned by the Los Angeles Police Department, FBI, FAM, and so on; they were a musical band).
Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece. (Update to the update: James Taranto notes that the Jungian Annie lives in Toronto, not Los Angeles). Another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism. If al Qaeda has been driven to such pathetic plots, maybe (no thanks to Norm Mineta) we really are getting somewhere.
Update II: By the way, my friend and Philly talk show host Michael Smerconish was the first to pick up on the idiotic policy that Jacobsen mentions which punished airlines for pulling over more than two Arab/Muslim passengers for secondary questioning. More info here, including Smerconish’s testimony about what 9/11 commissioner and former Navy Secretary John Lehman told him.
Update III: Good discussion at Ace of Spades and via Volokh, Jeff the Baptist thinks the Syrians were just praying. Hmmmm. Thomas Galvin had his own experience observing a passenger with “an oblong object wrapped in cloth.” Via Daniel Drezner, here’s the February 2004 London Observer article on intelligence related to mid-air bomb plots. David Horowitz had an eyebrow-raising flight experience last month.
Update IV: The always incisive Michele Catalano writes:
If this story is real and these men were what Annie thought they were, it’s a frightening story, indeed. Enough to make me start doing that nervous twitch everytime a plane flies a bit too low over my house. I thought I got rid of that twitch.
The more I write about it (as I’m reading other bloggers’ reactions to the story while I compose this), the more I think, why not? They keep saying they’re going to do something, why would I think this story is not true?
Again, I don’t want it to be true. The implications are not something I can let my brain chew on right now. Head, meet sand.
But what if? What if they were making a dry run? You can’t really protect the country by dealing in what ifs. So what’s the solution? Or is there one? And what do you make of this story?
Update V: Just a side note. The air marshals’ spokesman, Dave Adams, was a bit defensive in confirming the story, which seems to lend unsettling credence to Jacobsen’s account, in my opinion. Also, I’ve been trying to get a hold of the p.r. reps for WomensWallStreet.com. A receptionist said they’ve been swamped with calls since this morning. Am hoping this means my colleagues in the mainstream media are digging into the story, too.
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Categories: Airline Security, Annie Jacobsen, Norm Mineta
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So sean, by your logic any real terrorists don’t even have to pretend they are not terrorists. In fact, they can just stand up and make an announcement…
“Excuse us folks. For the rest of this flight we will be practicing for future terrorist attacks. We will be honing our skills for circumventing your petty security procedures and ironing out our tactics for real attacks in the future. However, since we are not actually going to do anything to this particular plane, we are in violation of no law and should not be impeded in any way by you Satanist infidels. Allah is great and thank you for your support.”
They did not have to have anything on them. Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime sean, maybe if you got your information from someplace other than “Law & Order SVU” you would know that.
In fact, if this little incident serves no other purpose than to make the liberals go batsh!t about harassing Arab bands, then that would make Arab bands a failsafe cover for real terrorists later.
And many of you have taken to saying that this women just got nervous because there were several Arabs on her flight and are completely ommitting the extnesive and specific information regarding their suspicious behavior througout the flight. They did not act like a band, they acted like terrorists and so only a freaking idiot would not take notice.
Terrorists have proven one thing, they are very intelligent and they absolutley know how to make liberals jump like puppets on a string. They will manipulate you into helping their cause. Unwitting fools.
Walter,
Fair point. The character of the author is a hysterical soccer mom who quotes Coulter, a supporter of domestic terrorists. That makes the narrator unreliable, in my opinion. The narrator does a good job of interpreting evidence in such a way that each action of the arabs is further indication that they are terrorists. Only at the end of the story, when everyone lives, is it revealed that they did not commit any acts of terrorism, and that the narrator’s terror was internal.
As the senate intelligence committee recently revealed, the buildup to the Iraqi invasion was partly the result of group think by the CIA. People saw supporting evidence everywhere they looked for it and ignored or misinterpreted any evidence contrary to their ideas.
What does this mean in terms of airline security? IMO, the cops, and marshalls are doing their jobs. While “aware Americans” hold hands and shiver in fear, the rest of us get on and off of planes without bombs in our carry ons.
What I found persuasive was the sense of danger that Annie and her husband, as well as the flight crew felt. We have an instinctual sense of danger that we can’t always articulate, and a lot of it has nothing to do with race. The look in the eyes can trigger it.
With all the details that the author gave, I’d have been worried too, and it bothers me that the crew or the air marshalls didn’t just examine the bags and personal belongings this “band” was carrying. If they were using the lavatories for praying, they should have told the flight crew and shown them the prayer rugs and instruments in advance. If they get huffy, maybe they shouldn’t be here earning money.
Chris,
I am glad that the marshalls shook the suspicious arabs down. That’s their job. Since no arrests were made, and nothing came of it, we can be sure that these men were not terrorists. This administration has no problem jailing foreign nationals and calling them grave threats to our security. If these guys aren’t being molested in Guantanamo by now, then they must be clean, since our hair-trigger police would love to announce the capture of a terrorist cell.
Chris,
I find it amusing that you need to attack my character just because you disagree with my views. It’s too bad we’re not on the senate floor, I love a little dirty talk.
Re the “Update: I agree with many readers that some skepticism is still warranted, especially if this is the same Annie Jacobsen that wrote the piece.”
When I read that line earlier this morning (before updates 2 - 4) I thought it was a bit disingenuous to simply Google the name Annie Jacobsen and cast doubt onto her story by linking to AN Annie Jacobsen who writes about elves and unicorns. I was even going link to some some pretty racist stuff on a Star Trek Usenet site written by A Michelle Malkin to illustrate my point.
I wrote to the folks at Women’s Wall Street and received this reply:
“Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Absolutely NOT! Our Annie Jacobsen is absolutely not the same Annie Jacobsen at http://www.AnnieJacobsen.com. Annie will likely be appearing on a number of major new broadcasts starting on Monday, which will hopefully put this rumor to rest. Thank you again for informing us.”
Also, a quick thought on “another quick thought: Building a bomb in mid-air using 14 operatives to take down one plane seems like a rather inefficient means of terrorism.”
It’s quite possible the group is training together and would break into smaller groups before striking.
One “team” could fly ahead of the other, placing key items in the plane. If they weren’t detected the second team would assemble the components and strike, assuring that the whole team wasn’t caught if something went wrong on either leg.
Sean- excellent! My point was that we can’t know this story is 100% true so debating things as if it *were* true is just bad– I think you were kinda hitting on that point in your post too and my post was really directed at the flame war thats been going on regarding whether they were terrorists or not
For someone who is as paranoid as I the only thing I can do is tell myself that our security system is doing its best so I don’t live my life in fear.
And I agree, groupthink is dangerous and certainly alot of the things happening on that plane were going on in her head. But believe me when I read that story my hairs were raised on end and my heart rate increased– she really got me where it counted and if I were her on the plane and saw all the things she described it would have been hard for me not to freak out too
When you are living your life in fear, living your life.. in.. *terror*. The terrorists, whose goal is to *create* terror, have won.
Aw, gee, you think maybe The Washington Post is actually trying to run down as many leads on the story as possible before putting it in print, instead of tossing out unchecked and apparently untrue aspersions on all concerned, i.e., whether the author of the piece is “this” A. Jacobson, that is, a “Jungian,” and so what is she were? The Post, given its resources, might even be trying to track down and talk to these musicians/terrorists/whoever, which I know to you bloggers and jerk-off artists would be kinda of a novel thing to do.
J. Simmon
Houston, TX.
Sounds like an urban legend, seasoned with actual facts for added sense of accuracy, that has gone amok.
Why would they practice making a bomb in the air when they can practice in the security in their homes under simulated settings. And if they are going through the motions of practicing, why not go all the way through and MAKE the bomb?
This type of fear is the reason most White people cross the street when they see a young black or latino male. So sad.
Duane,
Yes, you are absolutely right - there are all kinds of ways that 14 terrorists could collaborate to train together to build a bomb for a plane/on a plane/on several planes. Really, there are as many ways as your imagination is broad - and that’s the point. If you go around looking at every group of arabs as terrorists, then you’re constantly going to be freaking out over terrorists (especially if you’re flying around Michigan and Detroit in particular). In this particular case, the feds grabbed the guys, searched them, questioned them (and I assume checked out their story - hell, even the local police check out my story when I get pulled over in my wife’s car), and found that they were clean. Lesson to be learned - every time a hot chick freaks out doesn’t mean a plane is going down.
Of course, it’s still fun (in a house of horrors sort of way)to frighten oneself by thinking of of all the ways they could be bad guys, and all the ways that we could be heroes by overcoming them - that’s mostly what everyone is doing here. And why not, it’s friday afternoon.
On racial profiling: Next time a white terrorist blows up a building, does that mean all the whities are going to be profiled?
Dear Wha?
Good point, if that happens will we question ourselves about the potential radical militia members that MIGHT be posing as a country-western band, also flying on my flight? To paraphrase, if a terrorist can learn to make a bomb, why can’t a terrorist learn to play a jug and fiddle?
Fourteen Syrians and several Air Marshalls on one flight - nothing going on here. Move along. It’s just a terrorism convention in Las Vegas.
Corrie, Fake a medical emergency? What a heart attack? And get hit by the on-board defibrillator? No way.
What? Fourteen Syrians? A Band? Two wearing dark suits and sunglasses? Next thing you know they with claim that they’re on a mission from God.
Sean, I apologize to you, I was worked up from a heated discussion on another blog and it leaked through. But that other guy sure deserved it though!
I truly appreciate the other side that wants to make sure that we do not go too far in one direction. But if we have to error, I would rather be apologizing to some honest Syrians for an excessive shake down than to 250 families for failing to shake anybody down. If everone is alive we can make amends.
Two Comments. First, someone above mentioned “IF people are flying as a group, why are their seats dispersed throughout the plane?” I can see how a nearly full flight might force a group to split up, but then the Air Marshalls also managed to get seats. Were people bumped? Or was it just random open seating scattered about the flight?
Second, If you get drunk and disturb a flight you get jail time. At what point does suspicious behavior that causes fear in the flight crew and other passengers equal getting drunk and saying something stupid?
Sean illustrates the common leftwing tactic of coming to self-serving premature conclusions by irrationally re-interpreting and then discounting the facts in question.
“Given that these people were searched when they got off the plane and that nothing was found on them, they were innocent.” This is an after-the-fact reality that never played it’s hand on 9/11, and that is the entire point sean conveniently dismisses, presumably so as do what? Undermine efforts at notably sloppy air security! Were this but-they-got-off-the-plane-clean mentality how we factored air security in the first place…there’d be no air security.
“That sounds familiar.” Here sean presumably alludes to the common leftwing stereotype of Federal jack-booted Republican brownshirted child-beaters, another instrument of disordered, politically correct thinking rooted in elitist Leftist academia. This resembles the ever-popular “drumbeat of war,” Vast Right Wing Conspiracy, and other Hillary-esque fantasies used to demean the Right without evidence.
“…a hysterical soccer mom who quotes Coulter, a supporter of domestic terrorists.” Aah, we get even closer to the source of sean’s hysterically irrational self-justification…
“…the rest of us get on and off of planes without bombs in our carry ons.” And here we have additional justification…at the implied expense of future innocent lives (were it that any of “the rest of us” had disembarked from the flights that terminated into the Towers.)
“If these guys aren’t being molested in Guantanamo by now, then they must be clean, since our hair-trigger police would love to announce the capture of a terrorist cell.” And here our sean follows-up with another baitingly irrational leftwing stereotype.
And after all of these non sequitors — depending as they do on irrationally positive assumptions about likely potential enemies as well as the usual leftwing stereotypical attacks of differing points of view and reputations — sean casually signs off with a little traditional leftwing preemptive strike of his own: “I find it amusing that you need to attack my character just because you disagree with my views.”
Interesting charge, coming from such a public display of pointless victimization in the name of…political correctness?
In reading these comments I see flaws in the counter arguments.
To Eusebio…about crossing the street it would depend on if the black or latino male was acting in a manner that made me uncomfortable.
To all those that keep saying about Detroit having the largest Arab concentration in the country. The problem is that they where not flying on US passports but Syrian which in itself is a factor in detreming if they need closer screening.
As far as the truth of the story or not..irrelevant to the discussion. If I was one a plane with a group of passengers that acted this way it would not matter if they were middle eastern or from the midwest. It would be a cause for concern.
Concerning racial profiling…if 9-11 involved 19 white men we would not be having this concern if the government started looking at white men closer but in our PC ridden society you don’t look at middle eastern men because it might be unfair…GIVE ME A BREAK! You look at the most likely suspects first.
If they were musicians, perhaps the “oblong object” was a bong and they were taking turns going into the bathroom to get high.
Well, it looks like I’ve found out where all the wackos hang out.
Listen folks, perhaps if you all stop watching FOX news and reading Ann Coulter you might realize that there are, in fact, a heck of a lot of different cultures out there. Not all of them want to kill you, regardless of what you may think.
It’s quite obvious that this story illustrates the views of someone who’s first reaction is to jump to xenophobic conclusions based on what she’s been fed on the nightly news.
The fact that she writes:
“As aware Americans, my husband and I exchanged glances, and then continued to get comfortable. I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well.”
and has the gaul, no perhaps ignorance to follow with:
“As boarding continued, we watched as, one by one, most of the Middle Eastern men made eye contact with each other. They continued to look at each other and nod, as if they were all in agreement about something.”
Tell me, is there anyone else reading this post that actually sees how ironic that statement is? Are all of you so insulated as to assume guilt before innocence?
What a sad country you have become. A pity.
James-
Right you are! 9/11 didn’t involve any white men, and I would agree that you gotta do a litte “looks like a duck” type observation if you’re going to get anywhere with counter-terrorism against fundamentalist muslims.
My comment was more lighthearted, and not meant to pooh-pooh profiling as beyond the pale; but there is a core truth to the comment in that it points out the scariness that domestic “white” terrorists take away one of the more obvious tools we have for detecting terrorists - profiling. Remember, TMV was white (even if you buy into the arab-connection theory, TMV was the ‘triggerman’ and he was an all-american ex-military whitey).
None of that has to do with this particular story, except to point out that while profiling might be a powerful tool, it’s useless in some situations. Besides, as I said before, I think terrorism in the skys is kind of passe. I imagine they’ve moved on to newer, softer targets.
Uh, dave p, it’s “gall.” But seriously, where are you writing from? Anyplace that lost 3,000 civilian lives in a few hours within the last few years?
And can you comment on how we *should* weigh those 3,000 souls against the unimaginable horrors of political incorrectness? It’s a tough decision; do enlighten us.
Yes Sean is quite the compassionate lib. I read Ann Coulter all of the time and i cannot imagine what the heck he is talking about,domestic terrorist? huh? What a maroon!!
You people are frightening beyond belief. This woman is obviously mental; when she & her husband exchange glances, they are being “alert Americans”. When a group of Brown People do the same exact thing, they are obviously building a bomb in the bathroom. The moment I read the bit about all going to the john in sequence, I knew it was for daily prayer. She even says the first guy had a rolled up prayer mat.
Seriously, when do we break out the yellow stars (or maybe blue moons this time?) & start sewing them on people’s jackets? I want to know where the line starts so I can join King Gustav of Sweden & get one sewn on my own.
Tim
My question is this: Is our government probing our homeland security system on a daily basis in a thousand different ways to understand our vulnerabilities? If not why, I mean my guess is you could hire a bunch of frat-boys to infiltrate our homeland defenses and really learn what our vulnerabilities are. Of course that would only happen if the bureacracies wanted to learn about their own ineptness, fat chance.
Paul H.
These are shoulder-fired military weapons that are about 30lbs and 5 ft long. China (HN-5), Pakistan (Anza), Egyptians (Ayn as Saqr), and US (Stinger) also manufacture similar weapons in addtion to Russia (SA-7, SA-18). It may be rocket science, literally, but these aren’t delicate systems. They are ruggedized weapons meant for field use.
That these types of things don’t happen is more an indication of how difficult it is plan, coordinate, and successfully execute - contrary to what Hollywood action movies would have us believe.
BTW, how did the WWB writer know they were Syrian passports? I’ve seen a fair number of passports in my travels abroad and unless I’ve seen it before, or get really close, they aren’t that easy to distinguish.
Still believe the article is hysterical paranoia that is more devisive and counter productive than usefull.
Ann Coulter wrote that she wished that Timothy McVeigh had blown up the New York Times headquarters in Times Square instead of the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. So there you have it: Coulter advocating a terrorist bombing in the heart of New York City.
Good call Tim, I never even considered they might be going in for prayer. That does make sense, doesn’t it (and pretty obvious, as well). The whole story is completely unverifiable without more facts from the Marshalls, but even then, if you’re convinced they were plotting, it can’t be disproved, and if you convinced otherwise, well, that can’t be disproved either. This story is really more instructive-entertainment then anything else, apparently.
Here’s the exact quote: “My one regret with Timothy McVeigh is that he did not go to the New York Times Building.” So she didn’t regret that this terrorist murdered over a hundred Americans — she just wishes he’d murdered hundreds more in New York.
I have felt secure about flying post 9-11 because of the “General Militia of Flight 93,” the reaction of the passengers and crew to the “Shoe Bomber,” and the assurance given to a friend who is a flight attendant that several pilots have said they will not allow their plane to be commandeered by hijackers. Even though everyone lived happily ever after in Jacobsen’s story, it still shook my feeling of security.
Back in the 1990’s when we were living in the Philippines, a Philippine airlines plane “disappeared” over the south China Sea…a couple weeks later, a bomb went off while a similar plane was taxing down the runway; with the usual Filippino efficiency, it was two hours late for takeoff, so was still on the ground when the bomb blew.
But it never got much publicity. Don’t think they ever caught who placed it there either.
But the moral is: Just a bomb won’t work. You need terror with it. Say, a live bomb, a bunch of scared passengers on the phone with family, and CNN/Fox/MSNBC reporters hyperventillating…
The whole episode makes me wonder why the pilot didn’t just “fake” some air turbulance and order everyone in their seats with seatbelts on…
Chris, the facts point to certain conservatives being the most easily manipulated of us. It’s only fear that could have coerced them into buying the Bush regime’s case for war in Iraq.
Concerning the inefficient point; one of the issues often overlooked is the adversary we are dealing with today is not yesterday’s terrorist. They are more dedicated, better trained and quite willing and trained to do extensive rehearsals and plan months and even years in advance. They are patient- we are not. The goal is to see just how much they can get away with and where. They knew full well they could get box cutters on the aircraft they flew into the WTC. Like it or not, it was a masterful strategy-buying a bomb for the price of a few airline tickets.
During the planning for that attack they had to also make an operational decision that they could not get an American pilot, under any conditions, to fly an aircraft into the World Trade Center or the Pentagon. No American was going to leave that legacy. That meant they had to devise a plan to get around that issue- the answer is simple- learn to fly the aircraft yourself. Take flying lessons and use computer simulations. You don’t need to take off and land, merely fly once the aircraft is airborne. Some were generally lousy pilots and even their instructors called them “Dumb and Dumber.” Others were competent enough to perform the mission. You only need one competent pilot who can descend and steer. That tactic wasn’t clearly on our radar scope. We were still planning for and dealing with scenarios involving a hijacking to Cuba.
The bottom line is we have a short memory and have to make some serious decisions about how to protect ourselves. This is a revolution and we are the adversary. Terrorism is just a tactic being used to get their way. It may be to get the Phillipine government to stop supporting our efforts in Iraq or to cause us to spend billions on security- it is a tactic that can be emnployed very effectively if we don’t have the will and sense to fight it.
The first step is to understand that a single entry point (once you get through security in the US at one airport you are secure from then on out)is not security at all- it is a convenience. I travel a lot and in doing so I see some very inefficient and ineffective security taking place daily. I see some places where they have far too many TSA agents- they are stepping on each other. Then I get to Atlanta and see just the opposite and we get to weave are way through the food court the lines are so long. The signage and the process was poor. There appeared to be no obvious management. There should be improvement that is visible when you do this every day. It should get better- it should improve- it hasn’t- it doesn’t. Shame on the TSA management team at ATL.
Security isn’t just about hardware- American fancy machines and it shows- it is about individual intelligence and being trained to ask the right questions. While the answers may be right, it may also give concerns about the individual and their veracity. I asked a TSA agent why they didn’t ask good questions and the answer was they didn’t want to violate an individual’s privacy. However, in the next few minutes they were about to hand search my suitcase and my dirty laundry. Now that seems like a real contradiction as to what is privacy and what is not.
How did a female Customs Inspector focus on Ressam (the 1999 potential attack on LAX)? By a asking questions at the US border and observing the indvidual’s behavior. It was December and it was cold in Port Washington and Ressam was sweating profusely. That is what one might call a pre-incident indictor. Had he been getting on an airplane she may have been constrained. But this was 1999 and she did what she should have done- asked more questions. He got hinky and tried to flee. Hey another real clue.
Consider how a single, 21 year old El Al security agent foiled an attack on an El Al 747 enroute to Israel. By asking the right questions and staying with them when the answers didn’t add up. She was a mule- she didn’t know she was about to carry about 4 lbs of SEMTEX on board that aircraft in her carryon. It was to be detonated via a timing device built into a small Commodore, handheld, scientific calculator. It would have taken that full aircraft and everyone on board out of the sky. The real perpetrators- the Syrian government. She had passed through British security without a problem. Her items even made it through El Al’s security equipment. What she couldn’t get passed was a trained agent who asked all the right questions and didn’t like the answers.
Who knows if there is any connection here but if this gets us talking and making changes then it is for the good. At this point we cannot even be absolutely certain this event happened as Annie describes it. Somehow I do have a hard time believing that an article that is this sensitive, published on the Women’s Wall Street site, wasn’t properly validated. But time will tell. Regardless- we are not secure and we need to do more.
I am as liberal as the day is long, and I’ll vote for Kerry (barring something really crazy) in November. However, a wife and husband exchanging glances is quite different than 14 people seated in various spots around the plane making notable eye-contact. Even if they are a band. Their actions were suspicious, and being familiar with Muslim praying, that’s not what this sounded like at all.
Do I believe that Brown People get a pretty bad shake in this country now? Yes. Do I like racial profiling (be it black or Arab or any ethnicity)? No. BUT, Ms. Jacobsen’s story is VERY alarming, and I really hope that the mainstream media picks up on this soon so we can get more information about this and other plans. (Seriously, why has there been NOTHING yet?)
Given Ms. Jacobsen’s account, even though I am a liberal, devoutly opposed to racial profiling, and married to an American Muslim of Arab descent, I would have been convinced the plane was going down (I would have been the woman crying 2 rows back). Yes, there were swarms of air marshals on the flight - that does nothing for the other passengers who are worried for their lives and are nearing heart attacks. Although, in fairness, there is no better way for us to learn what might be planned than to have marshals witness the whole dry run - I just would’ve hated to be one of their guinea pigs.
Long story short, I don’t believe that Ms. Jacobsen’s story should be dismissed off-hand as an urban legend or the rant of an Ann Coulter-loving soccer mom, nor should it be embraced as a reason to lock all the Brown people up and make them fly one to an airplane. But I do believe it merits serious investigation from both the government and media.
Until they can explain her, and others’ recent similar stories, I’m not flying. That story is some scary stuff.
6Gun: “Anyplace that lost 3,000 civilian lives in a few hours within the last few years?”
Um, you act like this is something unusual… how quaint. You are aware of the term “argumentum ad hominem”, are you not? Right then, let’s continue.
Unimaginable horrors of political incorrectness. I suppose to many of you this is what *entrenched constitutional rights* have become these days in the US. You know the ones, Ammendments 1, 4, 6…
Like I said, a pity.
wtf: The key sentence being “I noticed some of the other passengers paying attention to the situation as well.”
So again, how are several shifty folk eying certain passengers, PASSING NOTES, whispering to attendents not considered to be irrational, while those few brown folk who happen to be praying in the bathroom are?
It’s all in your very confused heads folks. There’s nothing to see here, move along…
Ann Coulter, had she called for the bombing of a lemonade stand on the corner, much less the Times building, wouldn’t be around to publish anymore. Amazing how “nuanced” Leftwingers suddenly lose all perspective of journalistic irony, of which Ann is Queen, when it’s their ox being gored.
And I’d be interested in a list of the *US Congressmen* who, with the overwhelming backing of the American people, “bought” the “Bush regime’s case for war in Iraq…”
Intentional misrepresentation; Leftwing strategy.
Dave P, are relative bodycount outcomes the basis for *your* international policy? Would you inflict same on the US?
Perhaps inform me of *your* threshold for acceptable loss of life. And under which conditions it applies.
You sound like another arrogant leftist lecturing morality and ethics to the Unwashed…
Thankfully, your opinion is in the extreme minority…and this is a Constitutional Republic containing a democratic populace with certain standards. Is yours?
If you want to debate global cultural values as the basis of *American* security you’re in the wrong place.
The fact that we have a law enforcement community that wouldn’t take action under this situation is just insane.
The problem can be traced to an ill-considered 1914 Supreme Court decision that radically changed the original interpretation of the Fourth Amendment.
Before the law was changed (by an activist, liberal Supreme Court, of course), those who were wrongly searched (or seized) had the right to make a civil claim for compensation. But if the search produced evidence of a crime, then the accused criminal was “estopped” from complaining about the search. In other words, a guilty person had no standing to complain about a search or arrest that produced evidence of his guilt.
The system worked very well — it punished the guilty and compensated the innocent.
Then, the Court made the stupid decision to change the rule. Now, any so-called unreasonable search, even if it produces genuine evidence of a crime, means that the evidence is suppressed and the criminal is, in all likelihood, allowed to go free.
And to make matters worse, those who are wrongly searched no longer have the right to complain by filing a civil suit for the trouble they are caused.
If the Court had never made this stupid change in the law, then the police wouldn’t think twice about searching or arresting people who are acting in an obviously suspicious manner.
Let’s pause a moment and take the following test. It will prove once
and for all that focusing attention on one group of people will not deal
with terrorism.:
1. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and
massacred by:
(a) Olga Korbutt
(b) Sitting Bull
(c) Arnold Schwartzenegger
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. During the 1980’s a number of Americans were kidnapped in
Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Dan Rather making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year
old American passenger in a wheelchair was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a US Navy
diver was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Martha Stewart
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed
by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Chelsea Clinton
(c) The World Wrestling Federation
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and
thousands of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny
(b) Wile E. Coyote
(c) Mr Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a) Enron
(b) The Lutheran Church
(c) The NFL
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonnie and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
As any fool can see, the people who perpetrated these atrocities have
nothing in common with each other.
Why would a Syrian be mouthing anything to his Syrian buddy in English?? “NO”??
I wonder what Syrian / Arabic word when mouthed looks like “NO” in English??
Piranha, “No” in Arabic is “LAH”, when accompanied by a shaking of the head and hand gestures, it can easily be understood as a “NO”, even by a non-arabic speaking person just by looking .
Since when do Muslims need to go to the bathroom to pray? There is not enough room in an airliner bathroom to prostrate yourself in the proper position for Muslim prayer. In the middle eastern countries I’ve been in, they take out their prayer mats in the middle of the street and start praying (if they aren’t near a mosque, that is).
I don’t think it’s for praying. Islam allows for travelling muslims to reduce the number of prayers they have to say in a day, since it is difficult and inconvenient to do it correctly. I don’t think a bathroom is sufficiently clean enough to pray properly, anyway.
Some muslims don’t reduce the number of prayers they do while travelling… but I really really really can’t see someone being able to do a good, clean pray in a tiny airplane bathroom!
Amen Gordon. This is worse then one of those TV reality shows. The fat that this lady has to validate her “awareness” by stateing she flew to India is remenicent of when people told me that they have been to black neighborhoods before. Alas, I give you all what you really need: http://www.blackpeopleloveus.com/
The answer to the ‘rabs congregating near the loo is simple:
Band Had The Runs (Wings soundtrack, naturally)
So many have suggested that these individuals were involved in prayer activities that I have to ask, does the average Muslim spend 4 hours praying in 4 minute intervals? I admit, it is not a religion/belief system that I am well versed in, last time I took a class on the subject THAT was not one of the five tenets of Islam. Please, correct me if I am wrong.
I have a couple questions regarding this whole story. Annie Jacobsen was just on a radio show in Seattle and I was a little disappointed at the softball questions she was asked.
Here are a couple I would have asked:
If you are a reporter, why did it take almost a month before the story was ran?
Other than yourself, can you provide a single other person to corroborate your story?
If the Federal Air Marshal program is as underfunded and as skeleton staffed as they claim, how could there be so many on your particular flight?
How in the world is a flight attendant writing something less suspicious than the husband of a lady who keeps staring at everyone and thinking eye contact is a bad thing?
If there really were multiple air marshals on board, why did they even need their description?
If the proper authorities had wanted people’s statements wouldn’t they have rounded up everyone?
This woman did not even sound like a credible person. The radio host had to prompt and it even seemed like he was reminding her of the main points of her story and when he would ask her for analysis she kept saying “It is not my place to speculate” or “if you read between the lines of the story you will understand” She also seemed a little too excited to be giving out her website at every opportunity (a website by the way that only has 1 other story written by this esteemed writer, and also a site that the editorial staff had to debate over running this story)
Just sooooo many holes in this story I half expected the last like to say “Forward to everyone in your address book or you will have bad luck for 9 years”
Michelle did a pretty solid job of getting verification that the situation took place, at least to the point of making Annie’s account credible.
WV. Hillbilly, how dare you bring logic and past evidence into this! It is only fair that we consider all people suspects in acts of terror. The Smurfs will be deposed on Tuesday to determine if they we involved in the Nick Berg beheading. And I have it on good authority that the Korean Sun-Il was beheaded by Kobe Bryant, but he says it was consentual.
Assuming it was Muslims males based simply on the fact that they did it on tape is profiling.
9/11 could happen once a month, every month, and I’d still be more likely to die in a car crash than from one of the monthly terrorist attacks (although the odds would be close).
Terrorist attacks don’t scare me.
The willingness, even eagerness, to suspend the ideas and principles embodied in the Constitution for the appearance of safety is what scares me.
Singling out a minority, Middle Easterners, due to the actions of a small percentage of that minority can only alienate a larger number of Middle Easterners and make America less safe.
Alright, most of you people have no idea what you are talking about.
What is the job of an Air Marshal? What is each and every of one them trained in specifically? Preventing crime on airliners. Period. The many of you who say “well they should have stopped them” have no room to talk, you have not been trained for such situations like these people have. THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING, its their job, and with our nation so concerned about terrorism, you better believe they are ready to act when they see a threat.
Also, since there were warnings in place, the air marshals from this story obviously were aware of what was going on.
Additionally, I strongly suspect that these “musicians” were known passengers, thats why there were MULTIPLE Air Marshals aboard. Its very difficult to get 14 people together as a group if they are flying standby these days, since airlines have cut way back on flights due to profit losses.
Lastly, don’t forget, in the US, everyone is innocent until proven guilty, regardless of race. Those are my thoughts, let the flame war commence.
Syrian band? Who were they going to play for? Find that out. If for some Arab-owned nightclub, maybe. But if not, then the ‘band’ story is a front. From my experience, Arab music - especially with vocalist - is to non-Arab ears like hearing a cat being eviscerated.
Back to Ann Coulter — Coulter says crazy things all the time. The fact that she’s allowed to publish is a testament to the First Amendment, not to the soundness of her views. If you don’t believe she said what she said about McVeigh, just Google it. You’ll find the statement soon enough.
And as to the defense that it’s merely “irony,” if someone on the left, say, Eric Alterman, had written “my one regret about Osama Bin Laden was that he didn’t blow up Fox News” would you take it as an example of “journalistic irony”?
Another thing… its definitely our air marshals aren’t people like those of you said you would have “tied” these Syrian passengers to their seats…
If the Air Marshals were made up of people like those who of you who said you would have jumped into action, the US would been even less safe, as your actions would cause even more of the world to hate us.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but haven’t I read a lot of stories about how Detroit has one of the largest middle-eastern populations in America? So, is it so far-fetched that a band that specializes in middle-eastern music might go there? Might have one-way tickets because they don’t know how long the gig will last? Or, sure, it’s also possible there is something sinister going on. I can’t read that story, though, and not see several common urban legend vectors…the “I noticed it” person, the “I was confided in by someone In Authority” and the “I was asked to help out because I was trusted by the person In Authority” bits. It’s just not plausible. Being alert when travelling is a good idea. Watching and remembering what you see is too, don’t get me wrong.
I think that in the interests of safety, all carry on luggage should be banned, and i mean all, whatever the inconvenience. We can survive the flight without our material objects, we might not survive it if we insist on allowing them to be brought onboard. Exceptions could be made for people with verifiable medical needs and young babies, but only by vetting them thoroughly. Lets remove all possibilities of weapons coming on board. I would be quite happy to go along with this policy.I am sure most people would be also. Just store your damn stuff in the hold, if necessary. Whats your life worth???? People need to wise up and fast, these vile( Muslim Fanatics) are after us. They mean to kill all of us. They are not religious in the normal sense, they are simply, hateful fanatics. They have no regard whatsoever for the sancity of life. Does not matter that you are 8 or 80, all(US) are infidels and deserve to die. This is their stated policy. I will harass any group of Arabs i ever see acting suspiciously on a plane. I will not go into buildings like the poor unfortunates did on 9/11.
Regardless of the veracity of the account, it raises the question of what would you or I do if confronted by this situation. Were I to view the described activities, and were I to note that those around myself shared equal concern about “the band”, you can bet your bottom dollar that I would NEVER have sat idly by, comforting my wife with soothing words. As others here have stated, I would have interfered, big time. Yaba, I would’a got in between ‘em, would’a jostled ‘em. I probably would have loudly started a conversation about how much I respect Todd Beemer. I would have got in yellowshirts face, asking him was he having a good trip, do you have any kids, wanna see photos of my kids? If foreign nationals are allowed to stand and roam, damn straight old painter Dave gonna do some roaming of his own. It is incumbant on us all to be diligent and aggressive in any instance such as this. Were I the husband of the writer, with the lives of my wife and son in the balance, I certainly would have done a damn site more than whisper to a stewardess. Todd Beemer is one of my heros in this new age we live in. I repeat, it is incumbant on us all to be diligent and ready to intervene.
So, I just showed my wife my post, she said, “Damn straight, Boy” Donna said, “Dude, while you went aft, I’d go forward”. She is a georgeous 5ft11 beautifal blonde, and I guarentee she would’a got in the face of Mr. Business suit in 1st class, seat 2a. Her confidence is high, and so are her skills at rattling men’s cages. She aggreed that the best strategy would have been to start a planewide discussion of the heroism of Tod Beemer. His heroic acts could even serve America well after his ultimate sacrifice. All it would take would be an aggresive rousing of the passengers, to thwart what was obviously a nefarious plot. Dang, they oughta include this speech during the preflight instructions. “Oh, by the way, remember Todd Beemer!” That would be awesome. When I think of the medeival minded enemy, my blood boils. My nephew is over there, I have no real shot at defeating the terrorist bastards who target women and children specificly. I would gladly go down in flames if I had one shot at preventing a homicide bombing. Right now, the only thing I can do, is ask myself, who would Osama rather see elected? Bush or Kerrey? The answer is obvious, that the terrorists would much rather see a weak, wishy washy isolationist elected, so that the terrorists could advance their plan to destroy the West. It is interesting , though, that they have no plan to create or embrace freedom. And as the terrorist hordes rolled over the terrain of JFKerry’s weak America, as they arrived in Hollywood, and confronted Micheal Moore drinking wine with Whoopie and Sean Penn, and tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon, as all the leftist radicals smiled at the advancing hordes, Osama would say “Kill ALL the Americans, especially the weak decadent ones!”.
Holy Cr*p Dave,
Where the heck do you think you are living….Afghanistan? This is America! I’ll be d*mned if I give up my right to board a plane with BOTH my purse, AND a carry-on containing snacks, medications, change of clothes, jewelry, toiletries, book, DVD player, and stitching project (no scissors req’d.). Especially since such a ludicrous abrogation of my rights won’t GUARANTEE anyone’s safety. Anything that humans can devise, other humans will (sooner or later) evade. There are already a number of non-metallic weapons that can pass undetected through any screening process we have now. No, I will NOT advertise them here. There is no absolute safety Dave. Get over it.
But if safety at the price of freedom is acceptable to you, can I come over to your house and force you to install special handrails in your shower, near your toilet, and anyplace else I think might be “risky”? How about removing all the throw rugs in your house? Can I replace all your glassware with plastic? For Pete’s sake! You’re more likely to be SERIOUSLY injured in your own home, than to have even a relative directly harmed by terrorist activity. Unless of course, you give in to your fears, and let the terrorists change our nation into the totalitarian state they seem to wish for themselves.
I AM NOT PC. I believe ANY “suspicious” person should be checked-out to the full limit of the law. No quotas, no limits, and no “free passes” for prosthetic limbs, wheelchairs, eye-patches, crutches, braces, or casts Kansas Girl’s experience was appalling, but a perfect example of the disjointed, inconsistent application of the so-called “security policies” we now have. Before I give these agencies (or the airlines) any further powers, they must PROVE they can administer the ones they already have, in an appropriate and consistent manner. They have not done so yet, and I’m NOT holding my breath while I wait for them to do so in the future.
I neither know nor care if the situation truly happened as this woman described it. For certain, this “author” has no understanding of the difference between a “1-way ticket” and an “open-jaw ticket”. The latter is frequently used by artists and lecturers, to arrange multiple stops with no back-tracking. To me, her account more closely resembled Penelope Pureheart in a Saturday serial, than a legitimate journalistic effort. But as mentioned before, it DOES have great importance as a catalyst… for discussion and for an examination of what we’re doing and why. Let’s not forget…just because she felt afraid or intimidated, does not mean her fears were rational, realistic, or justified. She’s entitled to her feelings, but that doesn’t mean I’m obligated to do a d*mn thing about them if they are not supported by facts.
Lest you feel I’ve been attacking you personally, be aware that I deleted all the remarks I WANTED to make about not sitting near anyone on a plane who refused to carry-on a bag with clothes and basic toiletries in case of flight delays. Ewwww.
Kathy in WA
AMEN to PainterDave! TWICE! Your wife sounds terrific. But, not all women need to be 5′11″ and gorgeous to behave as your wife would do under these circumstances. Even a short, old, overweight broad can get the job done. As you mentioned….it’s all about the attitude. And this 2nd ammendment woman has got attitude in spades.
Kathy
When my husband and flew last summer, we were searched head to toe - with me having to take off my shoes, my belt. A hand-held scanner was waved up and down my body, our luggage emptied out and gone through piece by piece. Similar searches have been performed every time either and/or both of us have flown anywhere in the last couple of years (and we fly several times a year), despite both of us obviously being middle-aged Americans with Southern accents. I’m 5′0″ tall and redheaded; my husband is 6′2″ and blonde.
However, last summer while we were being searched extensively, a group of 8-10 Muslim men in full Arab “costume” sailed right through with no checks of any kind save walking through the metal detector.
There are space-age ceramic knives that are undetectable by a metal detector, knives that are in fact superior to metal ones.
Prior to reading the article referenced in the blog today, I flew to New Orleans from Ohio. I sailed through “checkpoint” with merely walking through a metal detector. Unless there are some serious changes in U.S. policy, I’ve ridden on my last plane for the foreseeable future.
What utter nonsense. ‘Dry run’ with
14 guys behaving as suspiciously as
possible.
This AJ character seems to live in
a fantasy world. See for yourselves.
http://www.anniejacobsen.com/
I like MM when she speaks out
about immigration issues but she seems
to share the dubious ‘accuracy’ standards of Faux News.
Check out the seating chart of a Northwest 757-300:
http://www.seatguru.com/northwest/B753.shtml
Unless you have a neck like a giraffe, there is no way to see everything the author claims.
Daktari wrote:
Unless you have a neck like a giraffe, there is no way to see everything the author claims.
=============================
See her website. She has visions
and it worked for her since she was
a kid.
oh my god!
Think of the children!!
*runs round in circles gripped by hysteria*
Tim Keller: Interesting how you compare the Yellow Star of David (symbol of The Holocaust) to the visual scrutiny, paranoid or no, Jacobsen gave to fellow passengers. Gas chambers versus “unfair” looking. Nice job. Is it our paranoia to believe a “religion” which has its “leadership” continually scream out “Death to Jews” and “Death to America,” and the majority within its ranks believe it? Or is it our insipid inanity to not believe it?
Forrest: “If the Air Marshals were made up of people like those who of you who said you would have jumped into action, the US would been even less safe, as your actions would cause even more of the world to hate us.” Truthfully, I’m not asking “them” to love us. Just have mullahs stop preaching from mosques to kill the infidel, and mean it. They can snuggle with us after the third date.
Here’s a thought: If the crews of the 9/11 flights had been armed with pistols - game over.
We arm even our armoured-car drivers, and the Brinks dude isn’t exactly your rocket scientist type. Isn’t human cargo a bit more valuable than cash? Airline pilots should not only be offered arms, but MANDATED to be trained and carry them! They don’t like it…too bad, get a different job pal!
The Israeli national airline has armed marshalls on EVERY flight (they have never suffered a related terror attack…despite the near-daily seige by radical Palestinians on the ground), but not in the US. We are told that’s not logistically feasible, which supports my armed pilots argument.
Here we are almost 3 years later, and only a small percentage of US flights have armed pilots on them. Again, thanks to Norm Mineta. DOT has made the requirements and training for armed pilots absurdly extensive and burdensome, to the effect that many pilots haven’t had the time to undergo it. Mineta’s agenda is the typical liberal mantra: “guns = bad”. Bush needs to remove Mineta, yesterday.