A band of 14 illegal alien Syrians?!
WNBC investigative reporter Scott Weinberger reported on Joe Scarborough’s MSNBC show tonight that the 14 Syrians on Northwest Flight 327 ALL had expired visas. He said his sources told him that law enforcement officials xeroxed the men’s paperwork without looking at the dates. The visas had expired nearly a month earlier, according to Weinberger.
This does not give me much confidence in the background checks that the Joint Terrorism Task Force, FBI, and LAPD may or may not have conducted on the men before letting them walk away. Would you trust the terrorism investigation of officials who apparently neglected to verify whether these men–coming from a designated state sponsor of terrorism, flying on a day on which Department of Homeland Security officials had issued a warning about a possible terrorist attack–WERE EVEN IN THE COUNTRY LEGALLY?!?!?!
If Weinberger’s reporting is accurate, I won’t be surprised. The 14 men join a club of at least an estimated 2.3 million illegal visa overstayers currently living in the U.S. today. Until September 11, 2001, the Visa Overstayers Club also included “student” Hani Hanjour and “businessmen and tourist” Nawaf al-Hazmi and Satam al-Suqami.
Flashback: On Scarborough Country (July 19, 2004), former FBI chief of counterterrorism, Steve Pomerantz, commented on the FBI’s investigation of the Syrian band members:
I am struck by the fact that the FBI did turn out. There seemed to be an appropriate and proper response, and they did what sounds to me like a very thorough, exhaustive investigation, during the course of which nobody was charged with a crime, nobody was even detained, which tells me that these people were here legally, legitimately, had official and appropriate and proper documentation, because, as you know, for the last few years in particular, the FBI has not been reluctant to detain people who are here in any way illegally, whether they’re out of status, or whether they have false documentation. That didn’t happen in this case.
Update: Avert your eyes if you are allergic, but some immigration law wonkery is necessary here. Some readers have technical questions for Scott Weinberger. For example:
[A]s you must surely know, just because a person’s visa has expired doesn’t mean they are “out of status.” A person is deemed to have “overstayed” when they have exceeded the time allowed him or her to stay in the U.S. by DHS/ICE. This time is put on the alien’s I-94 card when they enter the U.S. In fact, if the Syrian musicians entered the U.S. on P-1 visas, as I suspect, the visa, i.e., the stamp in their passport issued by the U.S. Consulate, would have expired the instant it was used. Syrian P-1 visas can only be issued for a single entry…And even if they entered with B-2 visas, which can be issued to Syrians with more than one entry, just because the visa itself has expired doesn’t mean they’ve overstayed. To determine whether the Syrians overstayed we’d have to see their I-94 cards.
Right. In lay parlance, partly because of journalists and politicians trying to avoid bureaucratese, “overstaying a visa” is commonly used interchangeably with overstaying the authorized “duration of stay.” I assumed that Weinberger meant the latter and have put in a call asking him for clarification. (See more here for a tutorial on what a visa is and how the visa expiration date differs from the duration of stay date or status determined by DHS at port of entry.)
Update: Still no word back from Scott Weinberger. Meantime, these comments from reader BorderAgent are on point:
Musicians typically have a P-1 visa and without a doubt a Syrian, entering on a P-1 visa would only be allowed a single entry on that visa and the visa would then expire immediately upon entry. The Visa only allows them to enter, while the I-94 allows them to stay here for the duration, whatever that might be, of the I-94.
As Michelle said earlier, in lay parlance, “overstaying a visa” could also mean having an expired I-94. But even then it would not necessarily make them an overstay. You see, you can actually apply for an extension of your I-94 while you are here at an inland office with BCIS. And the funny thing is, when you apply for an extension you are legally allowed to stay, even if you documents expire, until you receive a response, which generally takes longer than 45 days. So basically, you can automatically extend your stay for up to 45 days if you merely receive a peice of paper saying that you are waiting for a response.
Hope that helps clear some things up. A good rule of thumb when dealing with the old INS, now the DHS, is to remember that we have the most strict laws of any agency but have a waiver for everything.
Yeah, that last sentence pretty much sums up our entire immigration (non) policy: A waiver for everything.
Update: From KFI’s Eric Leonard: Air Marshals Say Passenger Overreacted. Excerpt:
FBI agents met the plane when it landed in Los Angeles and the men were questioned, and Los Angeles field office spokeswoman Cathy Viray said it’s significant the alarm on the flight came from a passenger.
“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,” she said. “The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
Too bad the flight crew has been barred from confirming this.
Update: Daniel Drezner and Donald Sensing weigh in.
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It goes to show that the key factor in stopping a number of illegal alien criminals and the like from coming into our borders is a complete overhaul of our immigration policies.
They need to clear out the INS and start back over again with standards that will place our national security as the top priority in who is allowed to come into this country.
I still remember reading Invasion. It’s really sobering to know that stuff like this still goes on in a post 9/11 world and no one is willing to do anything about it.
http://expertise.blogdrive.com
Wow. Well Michelle, this explains the whole thing- case closed. We all wondered why officials were acting fishy, refusing to comment, passing the buck and now we know. These people were illegal aliens, and as such no longer could qualify for terrorist scrutiny, since they immediately fell into the darling protected class of todays politically inept. (It would not surprise me if law enforcement were trained not to look at such things as visa and passport dates, since that could be construed as a racist act of “profiling”.)
So there you have it! And the 2.3 million others who are living here while showing full contempt for the citizens and government of this country also overwhelms me with warm and fuzzy feelings to no end.
The Syrian band has in fact been identified by someone who took a few simple steps that Annie Jacobsen could and should have in the first place.
The act was Nour Mehana, who performed at a casino called Sycuan on July 1st. He and his large band is confirmed to have flown in on NWA 327.
I’m pretty unhappy with Annie Jacobsen. This kind of sloppy reporting makes those of us with legitimate concerns about unsecure borders and airspace look bad.
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/taylor200407211921.asp
I am still of the opinion that we need to get serious about illegal immigrants in this country.
And Hundredmiles sorry I am more concerned with the mess of missing expired visa’s then Anne Jacobson (which if you recall could not ID the band even after seeing a photo) not being able to find out about the band on the net
hundredmiles - yes, we know about nour mehana. thank you for the newsflash.
clickonthelinks
Expired passports? That explains the hush-hush coverup. Beaurocratic bushwa! What is not explained, is the threatening nature of “America’s guests” while they were using our aviation transportation. Oh, so they are in a band? Since when do Syrian band members with expired visas have the right to defy instructions to sit and buckle? Their behaviour is not explained by their musical abilities. Had I been on that flight, and witnessed what was described, I would probably be in jail right now. My hero is Todd Beemer, and there is absolutly no way I would have calmly sat next to my wife as the events described happened. I would have “engaged” the “gentlemen” in no uncertain terms. I’m sure if I had, the air marshalls would have arrested me, a US citizen, because they would have had authority to do so. But 14 Syrians, acting as described, with expired visas? Can’t touch that! They would be off, playing their gig, while I languished in the hoosgow, being investigated from top to bottom. What in the hell is wrong with this picture?
We have a little over a month until the Republican convention and just a little over a month after that until the election.
Mit volldampf voran!
We need to do everything we can to get this issue into the spotlight during this time. This is a GOLDEN opportunity to push this and stop the mass illegal immigration and the greedy slave drivers who own, er, I mean employ the illegals.
Yes, it won’t be addressed by anyone on stage, but that’s unimportant now. We can get it on the floor at the convention and we can get media attention if we tug on the right ears. Among those ears are those of our Representatives, whom we should be doing nothing short of emailing at least once a day.
Nag, nag, nag, nag, annoy and nag again until they hate you…and until they acquiesce.
If you’re a delagate, make signs, find like-minded delegates and get noticed. To just sit by, settle for corruption in the system and not do anything seems to me almost criminal. As they say, “Brevior saltare cum deformibus mulieribus est vita.”
WOW! Not only 14 Syrian men (are they all named Mohamed?) behaving like they were preparing to hijack an airliner, or build a bomb in transit. The Federal Air Marshalls manage to miss that their visas and/or passports are expired until they are released. If we are so stupid that this is as much scrutiny as the “PROFESSIONALS” give to suspicious citizens from a country known for supporting terrorism WITH EXPIRED VISAS, we are truly too far gone to survive as anything resembling the America we thought we knew.
Good Lord.
14 Syrians made it through Immigration at Kennedy with expired visas?
You’ve got to be kidding me!
You people will believe anything.
This doesn’t make any sense. How could they overlook this fact? They must have known. They may have let them go so they could follow them back to their source. Or they picked them up later. Maybe the talented Mr. Taylor could find them for us. But I doubt we will ever hear of them again.
“14 Syrians made it through Immigration at Kennedy with expired visas?”
No, they came in on good visas, then over-stayed. The visas were expired when they were checked at LAX. Are you having reading problems?
This story finally appeared on my local Fox news station here in Detroit (I emailed them about it just after seeing it here last week).
The whole story consisted of 14 syrians on a flight from Detroit to LA were stopped by FBI after the flight landed, passports checked and let go because they were a band.
Nothing about their behavior in the skies.
It would be interesting to know about the flight they took back from LA, how they acted.
And why they took 2 one-way flights when they were in LA a couple days. It’s much more expensive to fly one-way then a round trip even flying to a different city from where you started.
They took two one-way flights because JetBlue only sells one-way tickets. I think you know that Machelle.
In doing a quick Google check on 14 Syrians expired visas, I came up with over 20 reports dating from 2001 on different groups entering and leaving on EXPIRED VISAS. It makes one believe that expired travel documents are no biggie with our government. Shouldn’t this merit some attention/corrective action or isn’t it considered a security risk?
Liberal Avenger - Robert Crawford just made you look really, really dumb.
You see, this is not Democratic Underground, where you can just throw anything anti-American up against the wall and it probably sticks. This is a site visited by informed people and you would do your self a service by trying to keep up.
Not only are they of the protected illegal Alien class, and the holy Muslim class, but thety are *entertainers* — the very embodiment of everything ‘good’ and ‘wholesome’ (at least to the left).
No wonder the FBI bowed and scraped (and ignored the visa dates…).
Isn’t the LAPD *forbidden* by local law from reporting on any immigration status? Even if they noticed the dates their hands are tied.
Just a technical question here - were the people out of status or not at the time of the flight? The visas just had to be valid the day the Syrians were entering the country, when they would be given a certain amount of time to stay. Did they overstay that time?
This actually would appear to confirm Annie Jacobsen’s story. There were indeed fourteen Syrian passports (if this is true).
Clinton Taylor reported that the musicians were out of Lebabnon and Detroit. Perhaps they were Syrian nationals based in Detroit?
This story is still alive, and not yet solved.
My question is “Did the musicians go back to Syria or are they still wondering around the U.S with expired visas.”
Y’all be missin da main points:
(1) This tidbit has been ignored: “a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in [the lavatory] for a long period. The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side ” !!!
Folks, that should set off some major alerts but I don’t see a trace of follow up. When? Where is the miscreant now? Why is the media completely ducking this — are corroboration rules suddenly back in vogue?
(2) The Syrian band should be on extended vacation at taxpayer expense, visa or no visa. I don’t care if they passed the initial interview — they’re Middle Eastern men who brought themselves to the attention of a flight crew with threatening, rule breaking behavior… “Sit down, boys, we need to talk. This could take a while.”
We ARE at war with Islamofacism. We ARE being probed. We SHOULD take prudent countermeasures.
One point. It seems that the “Syrian Band” is being given a pass on ANY scrutiny whatsoever because… they are musicians? Hmm. What do you think Mohammed Atta and his cohorts listed as their profession? “Jihadi”? If the described behavior is accurately related, I don’t care if they were Maronite nuns. Boot ‘em. An entry visa is not a right but a privilege, as the French were so happy to remind us last week.
Hmmm, what other group of Middle Easterners were here on expired visas, and their status was ignored several times after encounteres with law enforcement? (And went on to create 9/11?) Of course, the pro-open borders and assorted Muslim groups would have howled that they were arrested on immigration “technicalities.”
Of course, even if the FBI had turned them over to ICE, they would have been released hours later with promises to appear for their court hearing due to lack of detention space.
Please! Won’t someone think of the children?!
“14 Syrians made it through Immigration at Kennedy with expired visas? You’ve got to be kidding me!
You people will believe anything.”
No, you’d believe anything if you think that thousands of people with expired Visa’s aren’t living and traveling around this country at will. Not to mention the millions who are here illegally.
Police in major cities in this country are not even allowed to ask about immigrant status ….
Illegal aliens and people with expired VISA’s should be sent back home. It’s not rocket science to imagine what this country would be like if we opened the door completely, and told anyone in the world that they could come and live here - - regardless of whether they can support themselves.
LB,
No, the visas have to be good for the entire time they are here in America. Most countries will not (ever) let you come back if your visa is expired before you leave.
Anyone remember the report about the European journalists - French journalists iirc - that were denied entry to the United States because they did not have the proper credentials. They attempted to use the “But we’re journalists” defense yet they were still denied.
This was at LAX in mid 2003.
Scarborough Country also did a segment last night that reported their visas were expired and thusly weren’t in this country legally. They did not check out!
I just want to know why, with all that we know of terrorists and their methods, would anyone in law enforcement not thoroughly check the backgrounds of anyone of Middle Eastern citizenry? While I realize that the political correctness nazis don’t really want to run the risk of offending anyone unless they are a Conservative Christian or Jew, is it really beyond all rational thought and reason that we actually examine the one group of people that we KNOW is waging war against us?
I’m sorry. I had this site confused with the “Compassionate Conservative Christian Blog.”
In my country, people are innocent until proven guilty.
In my country, we value and cherish the history and diversity of our people.
In my country we look down upon lynch mobs and rumormongering.
In my country we try to look beyond a person’s color or faith.
Where do you all live?
This is inexcusable!! All this time I’ve believed that President Bush has been protecting us while it seems that airline security has hardly improved.
I’m one of the biggest Bushies you’ll find out there but I’m apalled that nearly 3 years after that such actions could happen.
Instead of furthering their left-wing agenda with BS from Joe Wilson and Richard Clarke, the press needs to be covering issues such as this.
kdeweb,
Because:
1) Some law enforcement agencies (Police, etc…) are barred by municipal law from reporting or even questioning someone’s immigration status. A Police officer can actually be fired or sued for even asking (thanks to treasonous local officals and the ACLU…).
2) Airlines are heavily fined by the FTC if they question more then 2 middle-eastern looking people on a flight because its ‘Racial Profiling’. So once the terrorist meet the limit with ‘innocent’ middle eastern men the rest get a free pass! Dont you just *love* diversity?
3) The INS, that staunch defenders of our borders, will probably only turn them loose again anyway. After awhile law enforcement officers probably feel ‘whats the use?’.
“The act was Nour Mehana, who performed at a casino called Sycuan on July 1st. He and his large band is confirmed to have flown in on NWA 327.” I’m glad we know that no terrorists are in this country travelling as musicians in a band. And that no musicians from Syria are doing some reconaissance and trial-run testing in the USA for terrorist friends back home. Er… we do know that… don’t we?
LA,
Wha?! If these folks had expired visas, they ARE guilty.
And, I don’t think tossing around accusations of racism is productive, here. You don’t know me or my family, but I can guarantee you might be a little baffled by the fact that my wife and I both think that “profiling” as it is currently defined is a good thing.
All,
Actually, I was happy to be profiled a couple of years ago. When flying out of the UK, I had to transfer to my international flight in Heathrow. As we entered the gate area, they started pulling people out of line for a hand search line. At first, I thought it was “random”. Then, I noticed that there were no females in the line in front of me, nor children. At the end of the line was one family - trio of ME folks with the momma in a burqua. They were taken to a side room for a special search (I’m sure for modesty’s sake). Then, the last two people in line were two women - and it was obvious they had a quota to fill. All the men travelling with families were put through regular security. Old men, women and children were put through reg. security. They picked (except for burqua-lady and the round-outs) men under the age of 60, over the age of 16, travelling alone. I’ll take that over “random” any day!
Liberal avenger you wuss. Everyone is presumed guilty when boarding a plane. That’s why we search everyone without discriminating. In your country we all end up dying for lack of common sense.
Hundred Miles from Reality,
We are already past that. We already know that they were found out to be the band you named. Michelle Malkin and others already wrote about it.
As for the characterization “sloppy reporting”, I’d say it was a characterization that almost calls her a liar and a characterization that you couldn’t make unless you were on that plane which I suspect YOU WEREN’T.
Please remember. This was Annie’s PERSPECTIVE. If you think Annie needlessly felt fear then you can explain why. But to attack her character isn’t a way to pursuade anyone.
My two cents:
1. There should be deputies or plain-clothes officers on every flight. They should be armed with something like an electric tazer or a gun that fires rubber bullets. (Bullets that could temporarily disable a person but not maim them or damage the plane) They should be trained to deal with/arrest anyone acting suspiciously on the plane. Profiling isn’t a smart long-term fix for threats of terrorism coming from the sky in the form of hijacked planes. Officials could be looking for a Muslim man with his head wrapped or some other stereotype when the terrorist could just as easily look white, be in a baseball cap and some very American looking baggy blue jeans. Who says all terrorists are Muslim? Profiling is not only wrong but its logic is severely lacking logic. Everyone should be looked upon as a potential terrorist when boarding a plane, not just Muslims males.
2. To crack down on illegal aliens the government needs to crack down on companies hiring illegal aliens and we, as consumers shouldn’t patronize those establishments.
3. People who immigrate to this country (legal and illegal) are merely looking for a better life. All they want is the American Dream. Are we still “THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY?” If so, then closing our borders to those trying to come here because of those words (Land of Opportunity) would be wrong and in my opinion make us liars.
4. Programs could be set up to allow certain people access to our beautiful but seriously flawed nation.
A. Every college could set aside some enrollment spaces for exemplary students from foreign countries. Work programs could be set up to help them and many other students find jobs in the profession they’re looking to go in. (Lots of schools do this but more should)
B. There should be a waiting list that doesn’t take more than a year. The first ones to qualify would be those not convicted of felonies of course but those with government jobs and students should be the first to qualify. In the case of families trying to come to the US one member of the family (lets say it’s the dad) should be granted permission before the rest of the family to come to the states. The rest of the family can’t come until the father (in this example) shows he’s employed and has a place to live. After that then the family should be allowed to come.
5. We need to remember that we’re at war but not with everyone who is from overseas. Not everyone looking to come to this country is a criminal. Many of those here illegally are here out of desperation. If my family was starving to death in one country and the country next to mine was wealthy I’d do whatever it took to get into that country. When you’re starving or oppressed I guess it makes no difference whether you reach help as an illegal alien or a legal one. Many of these people just need help. America always acts like the big brother to the rest of the world; well many of our little brothers are in a crappy status. It’s no surprise that people want to come into this country. Well that’s all I’ve got to say until Michelle writes or says something else I can use to discredit her as a talented or read-worthy writer. P.S: Why did Michelle edit/erase my previous post? I’m very curious but I doubt the coward (excuse me it slipped) will reply to this inquiry.
ANTI-MALKIN
Liberal Avenger (Extreme), Yes Robert really took you to the mat with words.
Yes. It’s sad that we would actually believe that there are any people from foriegn countries that have over stayed their visa’s.
How many do you believe there are? 0? 1? 100? 1,000? 10,000? 100,000? 2.3 million? Why would you believe any less than 2.3 million when we don’t actively deport anymore and haven’t for decades?
She can’t reply, because if Malkin and Anti-Malkin ever came into contact the results would be catastrophic. Or it could just be that people don’t tend to reply to those who insult/bait them - your definition of cowardice is the same as any schoolyard bully’s.
1. There should be deputies or plain-clothes officers on every flight. They should be armed with something like an electric tazer or a gun that fires rubber bullets. (Bullets that could temporarily disable a person but not maim them or damage the plane) They should be trained to deal with/arrest anyone acting suspiciously on the plane. Profiling isn’t a smart long-term fix for threats of terrorism coming from the sky in the form of hijacked planes. Officials could be looking for a Muslim man with his head wrapped or some other stereotype when the terrorist could just as easily look white, be in a baseball cap and some very American looking baggy blue jeans. Who says all terrorists are Muslim? Profiling is not only wrong but its logic is severely lacking logic. Everyone should be looked upon as a potential terrorist when boarding a plane, not just Muslims males -
Interesting idea. It wouldn’t work but it’s very interesting. You’re going in the right direction.
I didn’t mean to imply by my earlier comment that all people of any ethnic group should be scrutinized simply based on their ethnicity alone. I don’t want a repeat of the internment camps of WWII. I simply want those on expired visas to be deported. This is MY country. This is not their country. If they wish to be become citizens - then welcome to America. However, it is not some far reaching leap to assume that someone of Middle Eastern origins in this country on an expired visa may perhaps be up to no good. The very fact that their visas are expired are enough of a reason for me to be concerned. Did we learn nothing from 9/11? Did we not wake up to the fact that we are in the middle of a war?
LA (Extreme),
“I’m sorry. I had this site confused with the “Compassionate Conservative Christian Blog.”" — Yes. We are compassionate. We are the most compassionate nation on this earth. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t interested in the security of our nation.
“In my country, people are innocent until proven guilty.” — Yes. People are not held accountable by the court of law until proven guilty. Unfortunately these Syrians are probably still in this country with expired visa’s with no consequences and you seem interested in squelching our free speech.
“In my country, we value and cherish the history and diversity of our people.” — Yes. This is one of the most tolerant and diverse nations on earth and yet we have rules about how to immigrate to this country and stay in this country if just visiting.
“In my country we look down upon lynch mobs and rumormongering.” — Yes and who has lynched anyone here? We are interested in getting down to the bottom of this story. To call that rumormongering is making a judgement against us which seems to me you are “not letting us be innocent until proven guilty by you”
“In my country we try to look beyond a person’s color or faith.” — We did. They have expired visa’s from a nation on the list of terrorist nations that we cannot visit. They were reported by Annie to have acted pretty suspicious to the point that the flight attendants also were alarmed.
“Where do you all live?” — We live in a nation that islamofacists want to destroy and we have been pretty reasonable to muslims considering. We have said time and time again that there are good muslims but that there are a certain percentage that want to kill as many of us as possible. It isn’t elderly Polish women with this coordination and intent.
Liberal Avenger -
No one was alarmed because of the “color” or “faith” of the men in question. It was their behavior - which even you do not defend - that caused the problem. To compare this a lynch mob is silly - to suggest that “innocent till proven guilty” has any application in an aircraft in which passengers are acting inappropriately is puerile. Or maybe you think that every flight should have a travelling federal court (with, of course, US taxpayer provided counsel for the person acting suspiciously) that could enter an order telling the flight attendants and air marshals what they should can do.
To answer your question, the country we live in is the country in which four airliners were hijacked by Middle Eastern males for use as human cruise missiles, and that remains a prime target for future terrorist actions.
When you move here from Lollipop Land, maybe you’ll understand.
Liberal Avenger:
“In my country, we value and cherish the history and diversity of our people.”
This thread is about Syrians (non-citizens) with expired visa’s traveling across our country. WTF does your comment have to do with the subject?
“In my country we try to look beyond a person’s color or faith.”
That’s all well and good if a racially and religiously diverse group was targeting US citizens on our own soil. But this isn’t reality. We have been targeted by followers of militant and radical Islam (see the 9/11 commission’s report; they spell it out nicely). To ignore this fact in deference to “diversity & tolerance” is naive and dangerous.
I hate to say this but Anti-Malkin has a point. Does Anti-Malkin know michelle malkin or something. I sence animosity.
Fred,
Anti-Malkin made some good points this time around. Unfortunately he/she tends to call names or attach Michelle’s character.
It’s Michelle’s site and her perogative. Personally if it were me I’d have blocked IP’s that he posts from based on past patterns of his/her posts ALREADY.
pretty good ideas ANTIMalkin. WTF is up with that name. It’s funny in an odd way.
so does this mean that the reports of similar behaviors by middle eastern men on other flights across America mean a national rise in the interest and appreciation of middle eastern music?
i only ask because everyone seems more worried about the minutae of jacobsen’s experience than the bigger story it exposes. of course, if you have never seen terrorism but on the tube, then how can you understand why some people take it seriously?
Last week I emailed NW Airlines, referenced the Annie Jacobsen articles, and simply asked: how do you respond to this? Below is the email I received this morning. I like the line, ‘Flight 327 landed normally…’ as if they’re quite proud of that!
July 23, 2004 / 9:40 a.m.
Dear Sally XXXXXX,
Thank you for your patience in the time it has taken to respond to your concerns.
I appreciate the opportunity to assure you that Northwest’s policy is to adhere to federal regulation as administered by the Transportation Security Administration. Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles on June 29 landed normally. We are working with the Federal Air Marshal Service and the TSA regarding customer statements about the flight. In the interest of security, we are unable to comment further.
Mrs. XXXXX, thank you for writing. We appreciate your interest in our company.
Sincerely,
Missy Erickson
Customer Care
Northwest/KLM Airlines
GWB,
Although Michelle has partially already done this, i’d like to clear up a misunderstanding. When someone enters into our country with a visa, the visa, issued by the state department, has to be valid. The Visa only has to be valid the day of entry, while the passport has to be valid the entire time the person is in our country.
Upon entry into the country those people wishing to stay longer than 3 days or coming further than 25 miles north of the land border are issued a form I-94 (Or a permit as some call it). Musicians typically have a P-1 visa and without a doubt a Syrian, entering on a P-1 visa would only be allowed a single entry on that visa and the visa would then expire immediately upon entry. The Visa only allows them to enter, while the I-94 allows them to stay here for the duration, whatever that might be, of the I-94.
As Michelle said earlier, in lay parlance, “overstaying a visa” could also mean having an expired I-94. But even then it would not necessarily make them an overstay. You see, you can actually apply for an extension of your I-94 while you are here at an inland office with BCIS. And the funny thing is, when you apply for an extension you are legally allowed to stay, even if you documents expire, until you receive a response, which generally takes longer than 45 days. So basically, you can automatically extend your stay for up to 45 days if you merely receive a peice of paper saying that you are waiting for a response.
Hope that helps clear some things up. A good rule of thumb when dealing with the old INS, now the DHS, is to remember that we have the most strict laws of any agency but have a waiver for everything.
Thanks, Border Agent!
I was going on my experience with visas for other countries to which I have travelled. (Most recently, Brazil!) There, it seems the visas have been my ticket to remain in the country, without other paperwork. (Though Brazil did have a form I had to keep on me, w/ or w/o my passport.)
Michelle,
I read your post and as soon as I saw the phrase “expired visa”, I wondered if the “musicians” had overstayed, or if they were still in status based upon the I-94 card that they were issued at entry. As Border Agent has pointed out, it is entirely possible that they entered the country legally and stayed here legally. To claim that they were illegal, you will have to look up their I-94 cards and/or the record of their entry, see how long the immigration inspector admitted them for, and then determine if they had overstayed or not.
Of course, I had some understanding of this, because I came to this country as an immigrant, followed all the laws, and actually have a good understanding of the way that immigration law actually works.
You, on the other hand, having had the good fortune to be born a citizen of this great country, have never had the misfortune to actually have to follow immigration laws. Without that personal experience, it is easy for you to remain ignorant and jump to conclusions about expired visas without much understanding of what you are talking about.
You really should try and educate yourself before making yourself look foolish. I don’t have a problem with your negative opinions of immigrants - hey, it’s a free country - although I think that much of what you write is alarmist, and ironic, considering what your Filipino parents went through. But while you’re entitled to your own opinions, you’re not entitled to your own set of facts. If you want to pass judgement on our immigration laws, you have to understand what they are and how they work. A good sound bite does not make for legal advice.
Kevin,
Michelle is very well informed on this subject having talked to INS and Border Patrol and many other deparments and having written a book called “Invasion” that addresses this subject througout.
She is a respected journalist who contributes her research time and efforts to others and Fox News.
You wrote “Negative opinion of Immigrants” The question has always been about “Illegal” immigrants.
Nice to see you resort to extremist, off the mark judgements, character assassinations, and an attack of Michelle as liberals tend to do. It doesn’t pursuade anyone. It tends to dissuade them.
As a follow-up to my post above, and for all those who wish to talk about US visas, consider yourself qualified to do so when you can provide a working definition of the following:
Single Entry
Multiple Entry
Status
Out of Status
D/S
… many others but this is a good start.
Again, you’re entitled to your opinions, but not to your own set of facts. If you want to be taken seriously, take the trouble to educate yourself about the immigration laws that you demand that everyone else obey. Otherwise you end up sounding like gun control advocates talking about guns, Amish talking about sports cars (no offense intended towards the Amish).
This is not at all difficult. A good starting point is here:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/index.html
A page on that site (which I found in two minutes) that deals precisely with the Syrian musician situation is here:
http://travel.state.gov/visa/questions.html
Kevin, Michelle has talked at length about the above topics and is well informed. It seems that you haven’t read her work and you “assume” she doesn’t know.
You are entitling yourself to your own set of facts by assuming Michelle doesn’t know. Please research before making your attacks on her character.
Baklava, I am far from being a liberal and actually consider that to be a slight insult.
Michelle may have credentials but she failed to understand a very elementary concept in visa law. As I was able to find out in two minutes on the State Dept. web site:
A visa must be valid at the time a traveler seeks admission to the U.S., but the expiration date of the visa (validity period/length of time the visa can be used) has no relation to the length of time a temporary visitor may be authorized by the Department of Homeland Security to remain in the United States.
… and …
At the port of entry, upon entering the U.S., the Department of Homeland Security, US immigration inspector, provides you a small white card, Form I-94, Arrival-Departure Record in your passport. Visa Waiver Program travelers receive Form 1-94W. On this form, the U.S. immigration inspector records either a date or “D/S” (duration of status). If your I-94 contains a specific date, that is the date by which you must leave the United States. Your Form I-94, or I-94W is a very important document to keep in your passport, since it shows your permission to be in the U.S.
It is pointless to write books when you display a fundamental misunderstanding of the subject.
And again, I do not have a problem with Michelle’s opinions. I will grant to you that perhaps I spoke too broadly when I said that “she had a negative opinion of immigrants”. Perhaps I mistake her hyperbole for hostility. I will withdraw that charge in any case. For what it is worth, I do think that we admit all kinds of people who we shouldn’t.
However, misrepresenting immigration law is not a good way to go about reforming it. Educate yourself! That is all that I am asking of people.
If you consider acting like “what a liberal tends to do” an insult then stop acting that way. I described what you did in the last paragraph of your first post.
What she writes is usually only labeled by liberals as “hyperbole”. Usually only liberals mistake her writings for “hostility”. Withdrawing the charge doesn’t negate all of the attack in the last paragraph of your first post. And withdrawing your charge one sentence after calling what she writes hyperbole that you mistook for hostility is a long way from withdrawing the charge completely. That style doesn’t pursuade anyone to believe that you think you went overboard.
Yes. Educate yourself (about her knowledge - before you attack it).
I will refer you to Michelle’s opening paragraph:
[Start]
WNBC investigative reporter Scott Weinberger reported on Joe Scarborough’s MSNBC show tonight that the 14 Syrians on Northwest Flight 327 ALL had expired visas. He said his sources told him that law enforcement officials xeroxed the men’s paperwork without looking at the dates. The visas had expired nearly a month earlier, according to Weinberger.
[End]
Key phrases: ALL had expired visas, the visas had expired nearly a month earlier. The reporter, Weinberger, said nothing about status.
Even if Michelle understood the difference between expired visas and being out of status, why didn’t she tell you, the reader, of the crucial difference? This is the reason why I don’t really read her very much - she is so inclined to jump to conclusions and declare judgement with hyperbole and fanfare. This works as long as she turns out to be right. When she turns out to be wrong, she ends up looking stupid.
Another recent example: In response to a veteran being insulted on Bainbridge Island, a small lefty suburb of Seattle, she headlines: “Seattle Hates America”.
Why cheapen and discredit your own message with theatrics?
Actually another bit of parlance for ICE is: “It ain’t over til the alien wins.”
Also, “No alien is deported unless they want to be deported.”
And in the interest of fairness, I would like to thank and compliment Michelle for keeping the whole Syrian story on the horizon. I think that she has performed a valuable service in doing so.
http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html
AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
By ERIC LEONARD
KFI NEWS
LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 – Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.
The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane, according to a source close to the secretive federal protective service.
…
“The lady was overreacting,” said the source. “A flight attendant was told to tell the passenger to calm down; that there were air marshals on the plane.”
…
Jacobsen and her husband had a number of conversations with the flight attendants and gestured towards the men several times, the source said.
…
The air marshals did, however, check the bathrooms after the middle-eastern men had spent time inside, Adams said.
…
“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals,” she said. “The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
…
“You made me nervous,” Kevin said the air marshal told him.
“I was freaking out,” Kevin replied.
“We don’t freak out in situations like this,” the air marshal responded.
…
The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.
via Kevin Drum at Political Animal:
http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html
AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
Some highlights:
“Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.
The passenger, later identified as Annie Jacobsen, was in danger of panicking other passengers and creating a larger problem on the plane…”
“We have to take all calls seriously, but the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals…The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
The source said the air marshals on the flight were partially concerned Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort by terrorists or attackers to create a disturbance on the plane to force the agents to identify themselves.”
-
In other words, the biggest, no, the only problem on the flight was the hysterical Jacobson….
Stick a fork in this one, it’s done!
.
haha!
Hi Monkey; ya beat me to it!
It is my policy to put the “one” source in the pot of facts and weigh it with the original source and others.
The “source” that you quoted only said that Annie “overreacted” which was later talked about as Annie was “worried” and that the air marshall’s were “partially concerned” that Jacobsen’s actions could have been an effort …..
A Hermit, YOU took that information and said that Annie was “hysterical”. That’s quite the display of taking a set of information and twisting it up and, shredding it and forming your own opinion and writing it.
There has been quite a few “liberals” here posting messages that Annie “overreacted”. There have been quite a few people here posting messages saying that it is prudent and smart and reasonable to watch, document and question middle-eastern men who are acting suspicious.
It seems to me the fact still REMAINS that there were 14 Syrians on the flight who were doing things suspicious that flight attendants could have done something about (like asking people to take a seat - etc.) and it seems reasonable, prudent and smart to me that we pay attention to patterns and suspicious activities of middle-eastern men in light of the decades long established pattern culminating in the WORST attack of civilians ever on September 11th.
OK boys, enough.
What with tone of voice, etc. missing from this comments thread, let’s agree to play nice.
Hey, I’m willing to stand corrected (see post above).
“the fact still REMAINS that there were 14 Syrians on the flight who were doing things suspicious that flight attendants could have done something about”
The fact is, if you read the article, the only person who found the musicians’ behaviour particularly suspicious was Annie Jacobsen.
What I find particularly amusing about that article is that the marshalls thought Annie might be a terrorist…
Why this hatred for Annie Jacobsen?
First, a bunch of bozos said it was a hoax. Then, when her basic story panned out, she was mistaken or overreacted. When the evidence demonstrated unusual behaviour on the part of the Syrians and incompetence on the authorities’ part, SHE is suddenly the cause of all the problems - an assertion which comes, like, ten days too late to have any credibility.
I worked in the immigration and refugee field. To me, it’s very telling that we now know there were fourteen Syrians involved, apparently with Syrian passports, as she said. In fact, I now question the Nour Mehana angle, and perhaps Clinton Taylor was mistaken.
Jacobsen’s story gains more and more credibility, the more the evidence backs up her assertions.
Oh, and by the way it’s also my policy to “put the “one” source in the pot of facts and weigh it with the original source and others”, which is why I never took Ms. Jaocbsen’s story too seriously to begin with. The whole thing had that sort of breathless “urban legend” sound to it…
A Hermit - “The fact is, if you read the article, the only person who found the musicians’ behaviour particularly suspicious was Annie Jacobsen.”
She reported in her article a few things that contradict what you wrote.
Ready 
1) She reported in her article about the woman who was crying in her husbands shoulder because she was fearful.
2) She reported that the flight attendants were worried.
3) She reported that the flight attendant asked her husband to write descriptions (whether you believe it or not is irrelevant)
4) There were security personnel who were waiting at the gate and questioned Annie for hours as well as others.
5) There was Annie’s husband who was even more anxious about their security that day.
So. A Hermit. Why didn’t you take Jacobsen’s story seriously again? Are you saying the Syrians didn’t have a line near the cockpit door? Are you saying the didn’t bring things in and out of the lavoratory? Are you saying that Annie innacurately reported their actions? Or are you just saying that she SHOULDN’T HAVE FELT FEAR?
It is perfectly legitimate to say someone shouldn’t have felt fear. But it is also good common decency to understand that others have their own perspective and Annie was reporting her perspective and A LOT of us out here think her perspective based on the Syrian’s actions was fairly reasonable after a terrorist act and decades of a pattern established.
I usually like Michelle’s writing, and find I agree with her on most issues.
However, I must say that this whole Syrian musican thing has turned out to be a non-story. The alarming thing is:
The terrorists are NOT going to repeat 9/11. They are not stupid. After all, a mere hour after the second tower was hit, the heroes on flight 93 took down the plane because they knew what the hijackers would do. I’d say three years after the fact, we are just as vigilant.
Does anyone honestly think that Americans would not willingly sacrifice their lives if any sort of hijacking took place now? The terrorists, as devious and evil as they are, know this too.
No, they are hatching other plans and we have to outhink them(whatever happened to that stolen tanker Michelle pointed out MONTHS ago?).
By pointlessly making this a story, we are wasting energy on RE-acting rather than being PRO-active.
Smarten up, people, our lives depend on it.
Concerned,
Maybe that’s why they’ve increased their number from 5 on the plane to 14. They can certainly take over a plane if there are only 14 other men on board and the rest are children and women (maybe - and especially if they have some sort of weapon)
While it is wise to make sure our food, water, power supplies are not attacked as well, I don’t think it is out of the realm for either hijackers or bombers again even though they know we are on to them.
Smarten up !
Baklava, I wasn’t there, and neither were you. But the story as told by the air marshalls and the flight crew is in stark contrast to Ms. Jacobsen’s account.
I’ve no doubt that she saw things which she interpreted as suspicious. But the marshalls, who are trained for this sort of thing remember, were more worried about her behaviour then they were about the musicians (who had already been checked out and searched, by the way).
And GJJ; I am not expressing “hatred” for Ms. Jacobsen; I’m just not prepared to take one breathless account of what sound like perfectly normal activities on an airplane (going to the bathroom, getting up to stretch your legs and talk to friends, etc.) as evidence of a nefarious plot.
I’m sure Ms Jacobsen is a perfectly lovely person in other circumstances, but unfortunately she appears to have done what so many Americans have; she has given in to the terrorists and chosen to let fear colour her perceptions.
I find this kind of sad, actually…
Annie Jacobsen did nothing wrong. She did what we have all been instructed to do. She reported suspicious behavior. She is to be applauded and not derided.
We are living in perilous times in which an enemy has brought war to our soil. My only hope is that other men and women who witness such strange behavior will not be fearful of reporting incidents in the future.
We all need to stick together in this war and not attack each other. We ARE Americans after all. It doesn’t matter if someone is on the left or the right side of the aisle. I am sure that there were many liberals in the Towers that collapsed on 9/11. I did not shed one tear less for their loss than I did for my fellow conservatives. The pain that I felt on that day and many days afterwards was real and intense and I vowed to remember it, so that in times like this when the memories were not so sharp and the fear had lessened I could recall exactly what it is that we are fighting against.
The one story that sticks out in my mind the most from 9/11 was the story of the man who was in one of the Towers, his sister and 4 year old neice were on one plane and her best friend on the other. His sister was taking her little girl on a surprise trip to Disney World. Both women and his neice died, but he made it out of the building. None of those people did anything wrong to deserve the horrors that was inflicted on their lives. I remember that little girl and the fear and inability to understand what was happening to her. I carry that and remember when political correctness seeks to stifle my rage and my commitment to wiping out this plague on humanity.
So, let’s not attack one another. We have a real enemy to fight here. We are ALL Americans after all.
Amen KDEWEB.
Unfortunately we have been harrassed by the leftists as racist or “overreacters” or bigots.
There were innocent muslims in the toweres as well.
Anti-Malkin:
“1. There should be deputies or plain-clothes officers on every flight…….They should be trained to deal with/arrest anyone acting suspiciously on the plane. “
So you agree these guys should have been arrested?
“2. To crack down on illegal aliens the government needs to crack down on companies hiring illegal aliens and we, as consumers shouldn’t patronize those establishments”
I agree, but also should arrest and deport illegal aliens.
“3. People who immigrate to this country (legal and illegal) are merely looking for a better life. All they want is the American Dream. Are we still “THE LAND OF OPPORTUNITY?” If so, then closing our borders to those trying to come here because of those words (Land of Opportunity) would be wrong and in my opinion make us liars.”
Yes I think we are still the land of opportunity for everyone that wants to come here. As long they don’t break any of our laws while they are here.
“4. Programs could be set up to allow certain people access to our beautiful but seriously flawed nation.”
When you use the words “certain people”, I hope you are talking about people who who break our laws and not talking about being a bigot or a racist?
“A. Every college could set aside some enrollment spaces for exemplary students from foreign countries.”
As long as every U.S. citizen that wants to enroll into college is sitting in a class, then maybe I could go along with that.
“B. There should be a waiting list that doesn’t take more than a year. The first ones to qualify would be those not convicted of felonies of course but those with government jobs and students should be the first to qualify. In the case of families trying to come to the US one member of the family (lets say it’s the dad) should be granted permission before the rest of the family to come to the states. The rest of the family can’t come until the father (in this example) shows he’s employed and has a place to live. After that then the family should be allowed to come.”
As long as they do it legally and can show that they can support themselves while they are here looking for a job or going to school, than again I have no problem with that.
No wait… I do have a little problem with that, I think the father trying to support his family and bring his family here to live in the U.S. should qualify before the student.
“The first ones to qualify would be those not convicted of felonies of course”
Depends on what they where convicted of wither or not they could come to the U.S.
5. “We need to remember that we’re at war but not with everyone who is from overseas.”
I agree
“Not everyone looking to come to this country is a criminal.”
I agree again, because they are the ones that come here legally
“Many of those here illegally are here out of desperation. If my family was starving to death in one country and the country next to mine was wealthy I’d do whatever it took to get into that country. When you’re starving or oppressed I guess it makes no difference whether you reach help as an illegal alien or a legal one. Many of these people just need help.”
Yeap, I agree again, but I personally, would expect to be deported if I was caught entering illegally.
“America always acts like the big brother to the rest of the world”
I thought that’s why the rest of the world hated us?
“It’s no surprise that people want to come into this country.”
No surprise to me either, and I for one will welcome anyone who comes to this country, (legally or without the intent to destroy the U.S. or break our laws) with open arms.
Toi answer your questions:
“1) She reported in her article about the woman who was crying in her husbands shoulder because she was fearful.”
According to the KFI story the air marshalls were concerned that it was Jacobsen who “was in danger of panicking other passengers”. Perhaps it was her behaviour that was upsetting that woman?
“2) She reported that the flight attendants were worried.”
The FBI spokeswoman reported that “…the passenger was worried, not the flight crew or the federal air marshals…The complaint did not stem from the flight crew.”
“3) She reported that the flight attendant asked her husband to write descriptions (whether you believe it or not is irrelevant)”
A good way to calm someone down is to give them something to do…better to have the guy busy writing, thinking he’s being helpful than pointing at other passengers, making the other passengers nervous and bothering the flight crew.
“4) There were security personnel who were waiting at the gate and questioned Annie for hours as well as others.”
Because even false alarms have to get checked out…the important part of this point is the fact that they found nothing remotely suspicious about the musicians.
“5) There was Annie’s husband who was even more anxious about their security that day.”
Then they’ve both chosen to live in fear. Like I said, I find that sad.
“Why didn’t you take Jacobsen’s story seriously again?”
Because I have chosen not to live in fear, and I don’t swallow the first story I hear on any subject; especially one as thin as this one.
“Are you saying the Syrians didn’t have a line near the cockpit door? Are you saying the didn’t bring things in and out of the lavoratory? Are you saying that Annie innacurately reported their actions?”
I’m saying none of their actions sound like the kind of things any group of people travelling together might do. If this had been a bunch of white musicians, or a football team I doubt her perception of their actions would have been the same. (Incidentally, the KFI article says the air marshalls did check the toilets after the men were in them; something I imagine they would do regularly on any flight…)
“Or are you just saying that she SHOULDN’T HAVE FELT FEAR?”
The real story here is how fear colours our perceptions. I don’t particularly blame Ms. Jacobsen for being worried; we all react to stresses like flying or unusual people in different ways. But to interpret HER PERCEPTIONS as evidence of some threat from an innocent band of musicians is terribly unfair to those musicians, don’t you think? Especially when we get to the point of having her on CNN practically accusing these poor guys of being terrorists, all because they…talked to one another and went to the washroom.
Pardon me for not panicking.
I apologize, Baklava, I may have missed something:
“Maybe that’s why they’ve increased their number from 5 on the plane to 14.”
I thought it has been established that the 14 Syrians on that flight were NOT terrorists, but musicians. I may be mistaken, but if true, in fact, no one has increased “their” number at all.
In any event, there could be 50 terrorists on the plane with Uzis, all it takes is one Todd Beamer to say “Let’s roll.” I’ll take one Todd over any amount of terrorists any day.
My point remains: we are doing ourselves a great disservice by continuing to worry about this (as am I, I suppose, by posting, but I feel this is very important).
If you think Al-Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, Al-Fatah, Abu Sayaf or any of them are dense enough to try the same again, you are underestimating their guile and resolve.
Sure, they scored their greatest victory over the ‘infidels’ using planes as misslies, but they can do much worse. Remember, these murderers are not out to equal 9/11; now they want to surpass it.
That post was far from your original claim that she was “hysterical”.
I think that there is a large middle ground between:
a) Annie was calm cool and collected
and
b) Annie was hysterical
I believe she was perfectly reasonable in feeling fear given the terrorist acts that have occurred and the suspicious activities that were going on. I don’t think it’s right to call her hysterical when nobody said that. I also don’t think that it’s reasonable to label her with some psychological disorder just about as others have done. I think it’s justifiable for Annie to have felt fear given the actions that the Syrians were taken and YES it is also perfectly reasonable to think that those were actions that ANY group would’ve taken.
I address extreme comments. I think I did a good job at bringing the debate back down to a reasonable level. Because to assail Annie as being a psychotic or racist or bigot does not take into account the whole story on all levels.
No you didn’t panic. But you did call someone “hysterical”.
Concerned,
You are right. They are trying to outdo their past results. Thanks for pointing that out because there are some in this country who don’t understand it.
However,
I don’t discount the possibility that the could blow up a plane or use it as a missle again. There are some flights that aren’t that full of people so there might not be enough of “us” to take the plane back over.
It isn’t wise to take a possibility off of the table.
The tenacity to find something fearful and wrong about the Syrians exhibited by my frightened, conservative friends here and elsewhere has been astonishing.
What seems clear to me is that many of you thrive in an environment of fear. It is a drug for you. You want it, you need it, and if you don’t have it you will create it.
The simplest tool at your disposal for creating fear where there should be none is the good old “us vs. them” mechanism.
You thrill-seekers sit, cowering in your safe houses, huddled beneath blankets in front of your computers, inhaling the fumes of the camaraderie of the damned. You exist in an exho-chamber, bouncing rumors, prejudice and fear off of one another. With every bounce the story amplifies and so does your thrill.
In the spirit of freedom of expression, there is nothing fundamentally wrong with this at its core. You should be free to think, believe, live and act as you wish, provided your actions do not cause harm upon anyone else.
The only time you cross the line is when you call for the situation to be handled differently.
While you kids are telling ghost stories over the internet, we adults are functioning normally in our complex and glorious global society.
You are welcome to be scared, but lest you take yourselves too seriously, remember that there are many of us who don’t go in for vaudvillian thrills and who interact with the world around us fear-free.
The Air Marshals are part of this club of stoicism as are ALL OF THE OTHER PEOPLE ON THE PLANE who apparently didn’t see cause for alarm.
There are sugar-addicts, there are caffeine-addicts, there are drug-addicts, there are sex-addicts.
You are fear-addicts and you need your fix. Whether its foreigners or homosexuals you will harvest and process your boogey-men and nothing will get in your way.
Its an interesting way to live one’s life. Not terribly enlightened, but simple… Manageable.
Where do I sign up?
Baklava; I used the term “hysterical” because that’s how I would describe anyone whose behaviour is becoming so extreme that they have to be calmed down by the flight crew. That and the fact that she is continuing to insist (on national television, no less) that a group of apparently innocent men were up to no good.
I’ll say it again, HER PERCEPTIONS are no reason for you or I to start believing the worst about those 14 men.
I don’t think its “extreme” of me to point that out. America is supposed to be built on principles like the presumption of innocence, as opposed to guilt by association.
We’re all about a million times more likely to die in a random car accident on the way to the airport than to be killed by terrorists. That doesn’t stop me from driving. I take precautions, drive carefully, maintain my vehicle and wear a seatbelt, but I don’t drive in a state of fear.
I refuse to buy into a state of fear over a far less likely fate based on one woman’s apparently overblown perceptions.
By the way; I didn’t call Ms. Jacobsen “psychotic or racist or bigot” as you suggest. This is not how you bring things back to a reasonable level of debate…
When we pick teams for volleyball, I want A Hermit on my side.
Is there going to be a follow-up to all this ambiguity? Because from where it stands, nothing has been confirmed by Scott Weinberger that would disprove any of the aspersions being cast against the FBI. The ground seems to be slipping from AJ’s initial story. Oh truth, why art thou so elusive? This only confirms that Journalism truly is the first draft of history.
People have missed what is really going on here. Flight 327 was not a test-run for Syrain terrorists. No, it was something more devious, deceptive and diversionary. Annie Jacobsen is engaging in a test-run for the SMWHA (Soccer Moms Who Hate America).
Soccer moms have been killing Americans for decades now. Armed with Ford Expeditions, Cadillac Escalades and H2s, they kill thousands of innocent Americans every year.
In 2001, terrorist activities accounted for a measly 2,957 deaths. The toll for motor vehicle accidents was a staggering 42,443. (Statistics are available on the NCHS website.) A large percentage of those deaths were caused by soccer moms in SUVs who murdered their unsuspecting victims by pretending to hold conversations on cell phones or to quiet an unruly gaggle of screaming kids.
Annie Jacobsen’s crafty ruse is to take attention away from these murderous acts and place suspicion on visiting foreign musicians. America’s hatred of musicians is well-known, and with Jacobsen’s help soon all musicians will be rounded up and placed in relocation camps where their odiferous din can only be heard by coyotes, cactus and the occasional unabomber or two in their one-room shacks.
But it’s not just the SUV-driving soccer moms we should really be suspicious of. Ill-educated white males in oversized pickup trucks are apparently joining their ranks. Before committing their heinous acts of murder, these infidels routinely get gassed up on cheap alcohol and are heard shouting slogans of their jihad such as “Rush rules” or “A terrorist in hand is worth two in the Bush” before slaying their innocent, unsuspecting victims.
But it doesn’t stop there. Indeed, the tactics of this group have become even more devious in recent years. Many now hide under the guise of liberals, adorning compact vehicles with Green Party, Ralph Nader and “No war in Iraq” bumper stickers. However, their efforts have been largely suicidal and the victims they have taken with them are few.
But this plot gets even more insidious. In 2001 there were 29,573 firearm deaths, 22,242 deaths from poisoning, 15,764 deaths from falling and 12,574 deaths from suffocation. Many of these deaths were not accidents, and a vast majority of them were caused by white males.
Be a good American - if you see a white male push another person, report him to authorities immediately. If a white male tries to serve you food, report him. Conduct surveillance on local gun shops. If you see a white male go inside, inform the authorities. And God forbid, if you see anyone breathing funny, call the cops!
Consider these shocking statistics:
Middle Eastern terrorists - 2,957
Falling, firearms, motor vehicles, poisoning and suffocation - 122,596
That’s almost a 120,000 person lead! We’ve got a lot of work to do fellow Americans, but with your help we can wipe out this threat. Report your neighbor now!
“We have nothing to fear but fear itself” - Franklin D. Roosevelt
One result of all this is that Kevin & Annie Jacobson’s names are going to go on the “flight watch” lists - as people the flight crews should watch as likely to panic.
a nation on the list of terrorist nations that we cannot visit.
Someone wrote this . . . since when is Syria a place that Americans cannot visit?
Hundredmiles: “I’m pretty unhappy with Annie Jacobsen. This kind of sloppy reporting makes those of us with legitimate concerns about unsecure borders and airspace look bad”
Was she supposed to be psychic? The return of the pre-9/11/01 complacency is really scaring me.
“…since when is Syria a place that Americans cannot visit?”
Since never.
Our passports are invalid for use in Libya, Iran and North Korea.
(An exception to the Iran rule is if your name is Dick Cheney and you work for the Halliburton Corporation which has a $70MM/year contract to perform oil services in Iran…)
Arabs is scary!
Great post above, kdeweb; I concur 150%.
We need to get over the fear of political correctness. It’s not worth dying for.
I know that, LA, I was being sarcastic.
No one told me Americans couldn’t go to Syria the last three times I went there had had the time of my life!
Yeah…wouldja just let this “story” die already??
“AIR MARSHALS SAY PASSENGER OVERREACTED
LOS ANGELES | July 22, 2004 – Undercover federal air marshals on board a June 29 Northwest airlines flight from Detroit to LAX identified themselves after a passenger, “overreacted,” to a group of middle-eastern men on board, federal officials and sources have told KFI NEWS.”
http://www.kfi640.com/ericleonard.html
Great. Somewhere in the depths of Tora Bora, crazed jihadi psychopaths are taking tuba & accordion lessons.
Accordind to David Adams, spokesman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcements Federal Air Martial Service, officers were on board and checked the bathrooms several times during the flight, but nothing was found. “The F