The Syrian band playlist
From the never-ending Flight 327 files…Writer Heather Wilhelm looked a bit closer at the Syrian Wayne Newton Nour Mehana’s tunes. Not exactly Danke Schoen.
Heather reports:
Mr. Mehana has a nice little song on his recent CD, by the way. It’s called “Um El Shaheed.”
In English, that’s “Mother of a Martyr.”
I noticed “Um El Shaheed” on Nour Mehana’s web site. “Shaheed,” I knew, meant “martyr,” but that was as far as my Arabic could go. Since martyrdom seemed an odd topic for a casino crooner, I called the Middle East Media Research Institute. I spoke with Aluma Dankowtiz, who is fluent in Arabic, to find out exactly what Mr. Mehana has to say.
“Mother of a Martyr” glorifies the death of a young Palestinian. Mehana sings
to a grieving mother that she should not be sad, because her son, who died as
a martyr, is a hero. She should be happy that her son is gone, Mehana croons,
because freeing Palestine and the Golan Heights are heroic goals. The song,
which starts slow and solemn, ends with a triumphant chorus, celebrating the
martyr’s glorious death: “Allahu Akbar…Allahu Akbar…Allahu Akbar!”
Read the whole thing here.
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Yeah, and people think we’re PARANOYED?!? I’ll stick to my paranoya, thank you very much!
This is one of the most popular songs in Palestine.
Lots more innuendo than the story with the DHS guy saying that the security threat was the paranoid lady that nearly made the marshalls break cover.
The never ending story! Would more people freak out if it was a Jewish band singing about bulldozers in Golan Heights? Or rockets blowing up terrorists.. er militants.. vehicles? Hava Nagila…hava nagila…
Since the topic is terrorism, I thought I’d mention that I found something on Slashdot.org about the USA PATRIOT Act being used against a copyright law offender. The FBI used the Act’s information retrieval powers to pull all of his ISP records without going through the normal, legitimate procedure. A bit more here, http://www.blindmindseye.com/archives/000329.php, on my blog.
Let me predict what Liberals like the Liberal Avenger would say.
It’s an Arabic’s free speech right to sing about martyrdom or being a mother or a martyr. It’s their reality just like a rap singer sings about reality of bangin’ ho’s and shooting people… blah blah blah.
Middle America (those of us in the center or right of center) don’t care about all of that post 9/11. We care about learning who might be a terrorist and making sure we are protected from them. If there are people making “dry runs” or what we THINK are “dry runs” then why not let us educate ourselves and write about it and come up to a group consensus on what we think is happening without calling us racists or bigots.
Because we have people with the mentality that they should “kill the infidel” or be a martyr. And now we realize that.
I don’t know…when was the last time the Jews hijacked an airliner full of civilians and flew it into a skyskraper?
I am checking on that…
checking…
Nope! I guess I would fly with a Jewish band singing about anything they want. It is just the people with the history of blowing up planes that worry me.
And I would love a song about rockets blowing up terrorists. But I don’t know what you would rhyme with bulldozer…
And if the Linda Ronstadt’s, Dixie Chicks, Michael Moore’s, Alec Baldwin’s of the world want to have their freedom of speech (just like this band) so be it.
But we have the right to feel like we know what side they are on. Our perspective is just as valid. Right?
The phrase “Dual Use” sticks in my mind, for some reason.
They can be a musical band, and can ALSO be terrorists? Hmmm.
I’ll bet they can even chew gum while doing it.
“And I would love a song about rockets blowing up terrorists. But I don’t know what you would rhyme with bulldozer…”
Move over or you might get run over by a bulldozer.
Oh the innocent musicians…..
They are just so liberal artsy fartsy….
We need to fund them via the NEA (National Endowment for the Arts) just like those artists who desecrate Christianity…
Does he sing about the ‘Happy Bulldozer that Flattened my House’??
That’s a chart burner!!
Heather Wrote – “I traveled to Turkey about seven months after September 11, 2001. While
wandering through Istanbul’s grand bazaar (where my husband, regrettably,
decided to wear an Indiana Jones-style hat, subjecting us to countless “Hey
Cowboy! Hey American!” catcalls), I found a beautiful bracelet for my mother.
“What does the writing on the bracelet mean?” I asked the man behind the
crowded counter.
He pulled an English-speaking colleague over to help me. The man handed
me the bracelet, smiling. “Ah,” he said, as I smiled back. “It is beautiful,
isn’t it?” He grinned even wider. “It says that there is no god but Allah…and that
he shall lead us to the victory!”
I dropped the bracelet back into his hands, shaking my head as fast as I
could. He laughed. “Ah! You,” he said, pointing at me, “are not
ready for the victory!” His smile was wry. I laughed with him, agreed that
I certainly was not ready for the victory, and headed back into the bazaar.”
It seems to me that liberals don’t understand that the victory includes victory over them and their so-called rights…. which right is being trampled yet I personally haven’t been affected by this so-called right-grabbing Patriot Act.
http://www.nytimes.com article–now boarding, cultural misperceptions by joe sharkey–says mr. mehanna was not on flight?
I guess they figured the “Horst Wessel” song was getting a bit old…
Those who do not learn from History, are really beginning to torque the rest of us!
Hey Liberal Avenger!
You want some salt and pepper with that crow?
Didn’t Bush say right after 9/11 that we Americans should continue to act normally, since the terrorists expected us to act with fear, paranoia, suspicion and weakness, and displaying these reactions would signal a victory for the terrorists?
After reading Michelle and fellow bloggers beating of this dead horse of a story, looks like the terrorists are succeeding in what they intended to do.
So… Surge,
Us freely conversing about stuff is acting with fear and paranoia.
Cool. Extreme Blogging to the Max man.
BTW, you are an infidel also…… They will not spare you. Reality exists. Maybe your relative wasn’t killed on September 11th, 2001…. But they want to kill you or your relatives…
Go ahead, deny it. Repeat 10 times to yourself that there are no terrorists…
Yes! The “It never happened and would never happen again,” strategy just might work. We should all assume that no behavior by a bunch of Syrians on an airplane is suspicious and we are all racists for thinking it is.
After all, I don’t fly much, so I probably will not be among the 230 some odd passengers that will be the very first people to find out that it can happen again. But, such is life. Those people do have to die first, though. It is important that hundreds of Americans die just so I don’t have to feel guilty about being suspicious of any Arab that happens to get on the same plane I am on.
So, even if planes are blowing up all over the place, like a fireworks show, that is fine with me, just as long as no Arabs get their feelings hurt because we searched them harder than little old ladies. Oh, did I mention I don’t fly much?
“Go ahead, deny it. Repeat 10 times to yourself that there are no terrorists…
”
Posted by Baklava at July 27, 2004 03:58 PM
Baklava,
As they say, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.”
I’ll tell you one thing, after thumbing through the Taguba report, I’d rather be kidnapped by the so-called “terrorists” than be detained by our Army.
At least the “terrorists” feed you and kill you. They don’t slowly sodomize, torture and humiliate you like some (not all) of our Army guys do.
HA! You exposed yourself. I can’t believe after that you’d ever blog here again but you don’t know what you did wrong I’m sure.
You wrote – “As they say, “One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter.” ||||||| If they’re freedom fighters, what freedom’s are they fighting for? And how did it justify their choice of the tallest buildings with tens of 1,000’s of innocent people. They drove a smart bomb basically into a crowd of people that have nothing to do with their plight.
You wrote – “I’ll tell you one thing, after thumbing through the Taguba report, I’d rather be kidnapped by the so-called “terrorists” than be detained by our Army.” ||||| Sounds like you didn’t thumb through anything because I saw yucky stuff in the report but I didn’t see “killing” or “beheading”. So if you’d rather be kidnapped by kidnappers who would be apt to “behead” you saying Allah is great shows how much COMMON SENSE you don’t have.
Wow. I can’t get over that. Those were dumb comments Surge. You must be a conservative posing as a liberal just to get a response.
Oh yes, there is lots of evidence that Nick Berg was having a blast up until the time they killed him.
Surge, such comments create a lot of question as to your “sound mind”.
Is the fact that a minute fraction of our soldiers are accused of abusing a minute fraction of the prisoners totally lost on you? Or does it just not fit in with your desire to hate America?
And only a complete, ignorant, drooling, moron would confuse a freedom fighter with a terrorist.
They are just not so hard to tell apart. A freedom Fighter fights against the military power of a ruling party that oppresses freedom.
Terrorists fly planes full of innocent people that have nothing to do with oppressing freedom into buildings full of innocent people that have nothing to do with oppressing freedom. They do this because our ideology is dangerous to them because if it takes root in their society it will interfere with their ability to oppress the freedoms of their own people, specifically their women.
I think it would do you good to get kidnapped by the terrorists. But since that is not likely to happen, you can continue to visit webblogs and make foolish statements.
Hey hey hey! Nap time is over!
I’ll tell you exactly what I think…
This entire story begins and ends with the fact that nothing happened on the flight. Had something happened, we’d have grist for the mill. Since nothing happened, we should be done with it.
Now we’ve discovered that he sings a song about martyrdom… Your responses are very telling and exemplify precisely why the fate of this nation cannot be left to frightened conservatives… Suddenly, The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is editorializing song content. WE WILL SACRIFICE THE VERY VALUES WE HOLD CLOSEST TO OUR HEARTS IN ORDER TO UPHOLD THE SANCTITY OF THOSE SELFSAME VALUES!
You should listen to yourselves.
I think what this boils down to with you folks is that you are still carrying around a lot of anger about 9/11, and since the perps of 9/11 were Arab Muslims, and since most of you folks are “the people we fly over” and haven’t had a lot of exposure to foreigners and people from other cultures, you’re naturally projecting your anger onto a large group of innocent people.
I have a radical idea… Every one of you who can sit today in the safety and comfort of your own home or office and say, with conviction, “I am suspicious of Arabs or Muslims” should contact their nearest University and ask to be put into contact with an Arab or Muslim student from that institution so that you may learn the value of tolerance and diversity. Many of these students are thousands of miles away from their homes and miss their families… You could turn this exercise into a Big Brother/Big Sister type of endeavor and grow a great deal from it.
If there are no Arab or Muslim students near you, try for somebody from a culture that is alien to you.
Once you’ve done this for several months come back and report to us your feelings on race-driven suspicion and intolerance and what role it should play in our society in the 21st century.
Innuendo or not, paranoia or not … why are these guys here in the first place?!?! Their visas are expired – DEPORT THEM!!!
Furthermore, why do we allow *anyone* from Syria (a known terrorist supporting state) to enter the U.S. at all these days? Why isn’t there a moratorium on anyone from countries like Syria from entering the U.S.?
Oh – that’s right – to many mul-tee-culch-er-al political correctoids in the INS and federal government … gosh, we couldn’t offend these people, now could we?
damn…
stop the world, I want to get off! There’s far too many neanderthals running around.
We live in a civilized society? bollox.
I’ve got a job for Surge:
Construction and Engineering Positions -
IRAQ
http://www.craigslist.org/eby/acc/37600888.html
Maybe you’ll have an opportunity to run into one of those “freedom fighters”.
Gee Liberal Avenger, great idea about talking to those Muslim students to get their side of the issue. That’ll make 9/11 go away for sure.
What is it about this you don’t get?
News flash: The terrorists were all Middle Eastern! Therefore, silly me (in flyover country!) thinks that terrorists are likely to be Middle Eastern, not blonde Amazons. And, I act accordingly. I’m suspicious of swarthy young men until they prove themselves innocent of evil thoughts. If that make me paranoid, I have an adage for you, “Even paranoid people have enemies.”
“I saw yucky stuff in the report but I didn’t see “killing” or “beheading”.” Baklava
You consider rape, torture, humiliation and sodomy just “yucky stuff”?
You’re the one making stupid comments. Some people get of on that type of stuff, not me.
Believe me, I’d rather be beheaded and killed than to live with having been raped, tortured and sodomized for the rest of my life.
If that’s your bag, that’s your bag.
Do yourselves a favor, folks. Do like Lib Avenger said: Get off the computer, take a stroll in a park in the center of your city/town, and have a chat with people that are not in your socio-economic class or race. You’d be surprised at how genuine we so-called “minorities” are.
Liberal Avenger, I spent 7 months backpacking in the Middle East. I don’t live in “fly-over” country.
I don’t see anything at all irrational or intolerant about subjecting Arab Muslims, particularly those from states that have a history of sponsoring terrorism, to additional questioning, searches of their baggage, background checks, and for ensuring that they enter the country on valid visas.
I’d like to ask, if the rest of us are carrying residual anger about 9/11, what exactly are you carrying, and why? To what do you attribute your remarkable healing, and what do you suggest we *ought* to be carrying around, subsequent to those attacks?
By the way, I think you will see a let up in the anger and natural suspicion toward Arab Muslims as soon as we see a similar let up in the rhetoric coming out of the Madrassas, and from Islamic leaders in the Middle East. When mainstream Islam is as vocal in condemning the use of terrorism, we might see some progress here. But as long as “Mother of a Martyr” remains in the Arab-Islamic top 40, and suicidal terroists take down airplanes to the chants of “Allahu Akbar!”, we’re gonna have a little problem.
Your post, whether you realize it or not, is one of the most condescending and arrogant things I have ever read. I sincerely hope it is pounded into rhetorical oblivion here.
I predicted Liberal Avenger extreme’s response !
How dare we recognize patterns exist. We should be like dumb dogs with no nerve endings who don’t flinch when their bad owners raise their hand to strike for the umpteenth time. (I guess according to LA)
Most of us LibAveng are talking about being prudent and reasonable and recognizing that a pattern exists (over decades) and therefore watching, documenting and maybe even questioning people in order to keep people from being killed just because we are ALL considered infidels.
“But as long as “Mother of a Martyr” remains in the Arab-Islamic top 40, and suicidal terroists take down airplanes to the chants of “Allahu Akbar!”, we’re gonna have a little problem.” Purple Fury
Toby Keith’s jingoistic hit anthems like “Angry American”,”Patriot Missile”, and “Courtesy of the Red, White and Blue” exemplify how you should pay heed to the saying:
“Do not throw stones in glass houses”.
The same goes for your accusation of Lib Avenger as being condescending and arrogant.
Surge,
While you are thumbing through it again…. Point to me which page mentions that our soldiers raped and sodomized Iraqi’s. And if it did happen by a soldier the next question would be how rampant would you consider that to be when we have 130,000 troops there. Is it REPRESENTATIVE? Nope.
I’d take my chances with 129,993 soldiers who weren’t complicit in the yucky stuff that went on over the pretty likely chance that if you get kidnapped by the terrorist your chances of beheading are pretty high.
BTW Surge,
There were pages in that report that listed complaints by Iraqi prisoners that “ALLEGED” the things you said. But they were never born out to be true during the investigation. There were things that were figured to be true and plenty of evidence to go around as the New York Times had a field day and had it as a front page story more times than Watergate.
Seems to me Surge that you are interested in DISINFORMATION to a higher degree than even the New York Times.
Smack. Pow. Biff.
“Um El Shaheed” is sort of like the opposite of “Son Of A Bitch.”
Something like “Mother Of A Dog”…
Purple Fury, your take down of “Hey hey hey! Nap time is over!” Liberal Avenger was perfect.
I doubt 9/11 traumatized him too much because it wasn’t about him.
Any idiot whose comments are repeatedly introduced with the I’m back! shtick of “my nap is over” is a histrionic/narcissistic dufus.
Purple Fury Said:
“To what do you attribute your remarkable healing, and what do you suggest we *ought* to be carrying around, subsequent to those attacks?”
I attribute my remarkable healing to humility and a love and appreciation for human civilization.
While I love my country and the opportunities it affords, I am also confident enough in myself to recognize that in the grand scheme of things, there is no such thing as “the right way” or “the best way” or “the way it should be.” The United States does not have the monopoly on culture, righteousness and civilization – any more than France, Israel, China or Iran do.
The fact that I am comfortable facing each day knowing that The Good Old Red White and Blue isn’t *necessarily* the system by which the rest of the world must operate allows me to examine the good and bad of “foreign” cultures at face value.
It is quite liberating… You should try it.
***
Purple Fury Said:
“By the way, I think you will see a let up in the anger and natural suspicion toward Arab Muslims as soon as we see a similar let up in the rhetoric…”
You almost had a point there, but you lost it when you starting shifting into sputtering, hateful, “why should we ???? as long as they ????” mode. You should realize by now that nothing ever gets solved while operating with that attitude.
Try this instead:
A hateful, anti-Western rhetoric exists in some quarters abroad. We should take advantage of the values we hold so dear as a nation and show those people what tolerance is all about! Kill them with kindness.
***
Purple Fury Said:
“Your post, whether you realize it or not, is one of the most condescending and arrogant things I have ever read…”
I’m perfectly aware of everything I do.
Are you?
***
Baklava said:
“I predicted Liberal Avenger extreme’s response !”
I think you missed my point.
If we start editorializing song content, (and in fact, this is so patently ridiculous, I can’t believe that I am taking the time to even acknowledge the theme of your suggestion), then what are we protecting?
You knee-jerk, flag-waving patriots smile and wave as we send 140,000 young men and women off to Iraq to fight and even die to protect something… What is it that they are protecting?
They are protecting the right that you have to post here, that I have to post here and that Nour Mehana has to sing in support of the Intifada.
Furthermore, I support the Intifada in principal and I am capable of broadcasting that fact. Would you be afraid to fly with me? I dare say you shouldn’t.
Your rhetoric is like wearing an Uncle Sam costume to a book-burning.
Please, conservatives, leave our country alone!
“I support the Intifada in principal”
Then, liberal avenger, you support terrorism. You support children blowing themselves up and taking as many jews as they can (age sex, occupation irrelevent) with them. You support families being murdered during a passover seder. You support teenagers being blasted to bits in a pizza parlor.
That’s what the eff Nour Mehana is singing about.
Please excuse me if I want him vetted BEFORE he boards my plane.
“I have a radical idea… Every one of you who can sit today in the safety and comfort of your own home or office and say, with conviction, “I am suspicious of Arabs or Muslims” should contact their nearest University and ask to be put into contact with an Arab or Muslim student from that institution so that you may learn the value of tolerance and diversity.”
Well, I’d contact my alma mater to do that, but considering that one of their international students was al’Qaeda’s post-9/11 money man, there’s a chance I wouldn’t learn what you think I would.
Come to think of it, I remember one of my friends in college who did exactly what you suggested. The Arab student he sat down to talk with had a map of the Middle East in his room — and Israel wasn’t shown on the map. There’s a lesson in diversity and tolerance!
SarahW of “bluemerle” writes:
“Then, liberal avenger, you support terrorism.”
No, I don’t at all.
I am sympathetic, however, to the Palestinian cause. I do believe that the Palestinians should have their own self-governed, self-administered nation.
Don’t you?
***
Robert of Kloognome.com writes:
“The Arab student he sat down to talk with had a map of the Middle East in his room — and Israel wasn’t shown on the map. There’s a lesson in diversity and tolerance!”
OH MY GOD!!! THAT MUST HAVE BEEN SO EMBARRASSING!!!! WHAT DID HE DO?!?!?
Liberal Avenger:
“They are protecting the right that you have to post here, that I have to post here and that Nour Mehana has to sing in support of the Intifada.”
I would further argue that they are in the very early stages of helping establish those principles and rights for others — not just Americans. With any luck, people in that region will have an alternative to a world-view which revels in the destruction of priceless Buddha statues (the symbol of universal compassion and ultimate awareness, btw, or did you miss the memo?), burying of people up to their necks so that they may be stoned in public soccer stadiums, institutional repression of women, suppression of religious and political freedom, and ideological decrees sanctioning — scratch that, SANCTIFYING — the murder of Western civilians (any Westerner will do, but Americans are much preferred), as frequently, and in as large numbers as possible.
Now, remind me please. Given the events of Sept. 11, given the decrees coming from the founder of Hamas who famously said, “we are not fighting so that you will offer us something; we are fighting to exterminate you” (and many, many more like that, or worse)….
How does subjecting Arab Muslims, particularly those from states that have a history of sponsoring terrorism, to additional questioning, searches of their baggage, background checks, and vetting of their visas contradict what our soldiers are not only fighting to protect, but also helping extend to others?
Purple Veiner:
What you are saying, rather, is that using the Nour Mehana song as “evidence,” that since “these people” believe in something that you don’t believe in, they should be subjected to something to which the rest of us are not subjected.
This viewpoint flies in the face of the values upon which our great nation was built.
If we become willing to implement policy through The Thought Police, then we’ve lost the battle.
When The Thought Police are given the power to decide which types of people they want to detain and search, what keeps them from from widening the dragnet?
IF: The IRA is a terrorist organization…
AND: U2 celebrates the IRA cause in their music…
AND: Lots of Irish-Catholics listen to U2…
THEN: Naturally, we add Irish Catholics to the list.
But of course, conservatives can’t imagine this sort of thing happening – or maybe you can, but just don’t care – as long as its not YOUR group that comes under scrutiny.
And that, my friends is the entire point.
I know that some of you get it.
The rest of you need to eat more fish. Brain food.
Liberal Avenger:
“I attribute my remarkable healing to humility and a love and appreciation for human civilization.
…
It is quite liberating… You should try it.”
Ah, the smug condescenscion of the enlightened moral relativist. I know. I used to be one myself. You grow out of it eventually, you really do. I just hope you and enough of those who think like you grow out of it in time.
Btw, where did you put *your* anger, Liberal Avenger? Never mind. I think I know. You’ve turned it on your fellow countrymen, and on those who expose your arguments as shallow and unconvincing.
***
Liberal Avenger:
“Try this instead:
A hateful, anti-Western rhetoric exists in some quarters abroad. We should take advantage of the values we hold so dear as a nation and show those people what tolerance is all about! Kill them with kindness.”
Kill *who* with kindness, LA?
***
Liberal Avenger:
“I’m perfectly aware of everything I do.
Are you?”
No, I am not, and would never make such a claim if I was.
I take it from your remark, that you’ve had the experience of satori, then? And maintain this state of perfect awareness constantly? You must also know then, that according to the Hindu tradition, you will now die in three days.
Sorry, LA. Nice try. But judging from your posts here you’re every bit as much trapped in the illusion of duality as everyone else posting to this board.
“I am sympathetic, however, to the Palestinian cause. I do believe that the Palestinians should have their own self-governed, self-administered nation.
Don’t you?”
Not until they give up their dreams of genocide.
“OH MY GOD!!! THAT MUST HAVE BEEN SO EMBARRASSING!!!! WHAT DID HE DO?!?!?”
What anyone else who suddenly discovers he’s talking to a racist pig does — humor the guy until he could get out of there.
Liberal Avenger:
You’re close, but I’d suggest some slight modifications before I would agree with what you are saying.
“IF: The IRA is a terrorist organization…
AND: U2 celebrates the IRA cause in their music…
AND: Lots of Irish-Catholics listen to U2…
**** AND: A group of 20 Irish-Catholics hijacks 4 commercial airliners, crashing them into symbols of American political, economic, and military power, killing 3000, with the intent to kill 10 times as many or more…
**** AND: Irish-Catholic religious leaders regularly spew sermons of venomous religious hatred against Americans, American values, and issue decrees sanctifying the murder of American civilians, and calling for the destruction of American society…
THEN: Naturally, we add Irish Catholics to the list.”
Yes. I agree with that.
“Not until they give up their dreams of genocide.”
That’s at patently ridiculous as saying the same thing about the Israelis – that THEY wish to EXTERMINATE ALL PALESTINIANS.
Come on, guys. Use that brain of yours!
Purple Fury:
When The Thought Police come to get your muslim neighbor, do you say, “Good!” or do you wonder if the next time they might not come for you?
Here is an English/Arabic online translator. You have to go word by word though. If you find a complete translation tool, post it.
http://www.ectaco.com/online/diction.php3?lang=3
Liberal Avenger,
If I knew my Muslim neighbor was a peaceful and tolerant soul, and not complicit in any kind of terrorist act, I would fight TO THE DEATH to prevent his removal by…whoever. Thought Police, Dream Police, State Police, Sting and Stuart Copeland’s Police, or any other kind of Police.
—-
By Associated Press, 7/27/2004 16:35
BOSTON (AP) A federal judge took under advisement a lawsuit filed by two civil rights groups hoping to stop the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority from inspecting passengers’ bags.
The National Lawyers Guild and American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee argued that the searches are an unconstitutional violation of personal privacy. They sued to stop all bag searches on buses and trains.
–
Any comments Liberal Avenger Extreme?
Or doesn’t it seem fairly reasonable that people who gather in large congregations could subject people coming INTO that gathering to a search of their bag.
Where do you stand?
Do you want to know what I like? I like the fact that if there is somebody new to politics coming to this site…. they’ll will be swayed towards the right after reading comments by Surge and Liberal Avenger.
Or maybe even to the center…
Which is good, because George Bush and John Kerry are to the left as I’ve explained before and as many people gravitating towards the center is what we need this election.
I’m not familiar with the Palestinian Top of the Pops, but I maintain it was a dry run.
You’re almost there, Purple Fury… Just think it through a little bit more…
Liberal Avenger:
Make your argument and defend it please.
Get the facts on what is going on in Iraq -
Liberating Iraq blog:
http://freedomstruth.blogspot.com
Meanwhile at the Democrat convention, Georgetown University’s Imam Yahya Hendi gives us the final (er, I hope not) benediction. Strangely enough, this was immediately after a video of a Southwest Indian tribe, who leader talked about doing their part on the border for “homeland security”. This was a night of juxtapositions. Ironically, with the Indian tribe, the Dems lead Republicans 1-0 on addressing border control. The sad part is the Dems only did it to cover all the bases.
Try this model for thinking about profiling.
You are given a large jar of assorted jelly beans. In a small number of jelly beans, a valuable diamond is hidden. You don’t have time to search all the jelly beans, but you know that the green jelly beans are 1,000 times more likely to contain a diamond than all the rest.
Logically, you would search ONLY the green jelly beans until they had been exhausted.
Profiling? You bet. And completely logical and mathematically sound.
What is the difference in profiling swarthy middle eastern males of Islamic affiliation? Merely that intelligent beings might anticipate our profiling and avoid it by hiring those Nordic Amazons someone mentioned.
If 19 out of 19 September 11 terrorists, and 99% of their supporters and enablers, had been proven to have been middle-aged, Italian-American men, I would resign myself to walking or driving everywhere I went for the next 30 years.
Cousin Vinnie,
It’s worse than that.
1) The only people who openly en masse celebrated after the September 11th attack were muslims
2) There is over 2 decades of a pattern of muslims targeting and killing innocent people to make a political point (or so they think)
3) Many muslims are taught from birth and in schools about the glory of being a suicide murderer killing the infidel
4) Muslims themselves estimate about 10% of their population are extemists with the kill the infidel mentality.
While liberals want to point to McVeigh (I like to point to Kazinsky the mail bomber) those folks are few and far between and it IS NOT WHOLE POPULATIONS.
We find that after a certain age people start needing more attention paid to them to make sure they can drive safely still. The pattern shows itself and we act accordingly to protect everyone else on the road by having more frequent driving tests.
this topic is gay.. the people on the plane were idiots, and the dumb bitch that reported it was a racist pig…
but michelle malkin is totally fappable material…
mike hunt, I think you have shown who the idiot is with you post.
blakava:
“Or doesn’t it seem fairly reasonable that people who gather in large congregations could subject people coming INTO that gathering to a search of their bag.
Where do you stand”
Some people take these words under advisement:
Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Liberal Avenger said:
“While I love my country and the opportunities it affords, I am also confident enough in myself to recognize that in the grand scheme of things, there is no such thing as “the right way” or “the best way” or “the way it should be.” The United States does not have the monopoly on culture, righteousness and civilization – any more than France, Israel, China or Iran do.
“The fact that I am comfortable facing each day knowing that The Good Old Red White and Blue isn’t *necessarily* the system by which the rest of the world must operate allows me to examine the good and bad of “foreign” cultures at face value.”
…
A question, LA: if you don’t believe in one absolute “right way,” what criteria are you using to evaluate the good and bad aspects of “foreign” cultures – or the USA’s culture, for that matter?
Actus, the amendment protects people against “unreasonable” searches. The Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority and blakava evidently think (possibly influenced by that incident in Spain) that at this time such searches are reasonable. As it happens, I agree with them. Furthermore, anyone who objects to such searches should find some alternate means of transportation.
On a related note, how do you apply Amendment IV to airport security? Is it unconstitutional to check baggage there? Or, in the interests of the hypothetical right of freedom from annoyance, should everyone be allowed to take whatever they want on board?
The issue of “discrimination against Arabs” is completely separate from the issue of personal privacy. If it’s the former that concerns you (as, I assume, it concerns the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee), please don’t drag this amendment into the matter.
“I’d take my chances with 129,993 soldiers who weren’t complicit in the yucky stuff that went on over the pretty likely chance that if you get kidnapped by the terrorist your chances of beheading are pretty high.”
Baklava, Baklava….
I’ve not only thumbed through the Taguba report, I’ve gone through the International Red Cross report, which has found this abuse to be a SYSTEMATIC problem in Afghanistan, Iraq and Guantanamo.
The Army itself has admitted that their troops are undertrained to do that type of work. Of course they are, since we’re pulling National Guard units who have been trained to rescue folks from natural disasters, not to be prison guards or fight a full scale war.
If you want to trust your life to undertrained 17-32 year old prison guards who’ll resort to “yucky things” to keep you under control, that’s fine.
As a matter of fact, why not let the rubber hit the road: Enlist in the National Guard, Baklava! If you’re too old, then have your kids tracked to become military personnel in Fallujah when they are old enough, we’ll still be in Iraq by the time they hit 18 anyway!
Ka-BLAM!
Beth:
I understand there were several incidents in spain were bombs blew up on trains. However, those were targets of collections of people, and I don’t think its reasonable to search all collections of people like this.
On a related note, how do you apply Amendment IV to airport security? Is it unconstitutional to check baggage there? Or, in the interests of the hypothetical right of freedom from annoyance, should everyone be allowed to take whatever they want on board
I think airplanes present a different risk than trains and buses. They’re more than just collections of people.
Actus:
I’m not quite following your logic here.
You admit that terrorists can and do target “collections of people” – that is, passengers on trains.
“However,” you say, it is unreasonable to search “all collections of people” (that is, passengers on trains and buses) in an effort to prevent this.
The only interpretation of your words here which I can make is that, although the passengers of buses and trains are potential targets, you think that there is not sufficient threat to search them – thus making that search unreasonable.
Your position seems a little shaky, though, since you do admit there’s sufficient threat to make searches of airplane passengers constitutional. I assume that the “different risk” of which you speak is a repeat of 9/11 – planes being used as weapons? Are the lives of the bus and train passengers worth less, then, than the lives of other people?
Regardless, this still does not seem a matter for a lawsuit. Perhaps the transportation officials were a little over-cautious (maybe they thought the convention in Boston might attract terrorists?), but accusing them of a constitutional-rights violation is ridiculous.
Surge:
What point was that last post of yours trying to make? I’m honestly curious. All I can get out of it is that your opinion of our military is lower than your opinion of the terrorists’ actions. Surely that can’t be what you mean?
You know, in the picture on this website, Michelle looks like she might be North Korean. Given that North Korea is part of the “axis of evil”, I think we ought to keep a close eye on her. How do we know she was actually born and raised in the US?
And she seems to be very politically active – could she be trying to bring down the American political system from the inside? I THINK SO! In fact, let’s start keeping an eye on everyone that looks like they might be North Korean.
– - -
Yes, the above is a load of tripe…. but so is harping on about a group of musicians on a plane, who are being villified simply because of their religion and appearance. Nothing happened on the flight, and they were absolved of any wrong doing.
Events like this show three things:
1) How conservative Americans are still quick to judge a person based on their race,
2) How racial profiling is not a useful means of determining who is and is not a terrorist, and
3) How the US is a state run and controlled by fear.
Let it go, and start paying attention to the issues that *are* a threat to your nation, such as the 5 trillion dollar debt, the spiralling costs of the “war” in Iraq, the abysmal state of intelligence, the stripping away of your personal freedoms for “security”, the budget cuts to policing and fire services, and the fact that billions of your tax dollars are going to the infrastructure of another nation instead of your own.
Hi Darren! Welcome to the party! Glad you’ve been paying attention, and we all appreciate you coming over to drop this incendiary stink-bomb that ignores those parts of the argument that are inconvenient for you. And many, many thanks for sharing your preconceived notions of Police State Amerika. Btw, where you writing from Darren? Great white north?
Game for a little quiz?
1. As a percentage of the US GDP, 5 trillion dollars is _____?
2. Please present your analysis showing that the benefits of liberating 25 million people from a murderous tyrant (and overthrow of same’s genocidal regime) have not been worth the cost.
Include in your analysis both the human and economic costs of the pre-war status quo, which would include the corrupt oil-for-food program which enriched Iraq’s leaders and trading partners (principally France and Russia) at the expense of its citizens, crippling economic sanctions, along with continued US military operations to ensure the safety of Iraqi minorities in the northern and southern regions of the country, as well as continued basing of forward deployed US forces in Saudi Arabia. Feel free to include in your analysis the indirect costs based on the loss of credibility suffered by the UN as a result of empty threats of “serious consequences” in the face of continued Iraqi defiance of 17 UNSC resolutions over 12 years, as well as the loss of credibility suffered by the US as Iraq openly flouted its terms of surrender in the 1991 Gulf War.
Extra credit: explain how withdrawing funds from rebuilding the infrastructure in Iraq would improve the situation there, and how that would affect your cost/benefit analysis.
3. Name one personal freedom that has been stripped away from me in the name of “security”.
4. Essay question: describe the historical basis for the separation of powers that exists between foreign and domestic intelligence agencies in the United States, and the reasons for this separation.
5. Name the Clinton administration official most recently and primarily responsible for erecting barriers to the free flow of information between these agencies
6. According to the 9/11 Commission report, the Clinton administration, presented with information from the “abysmal” intelligence agencies of the US, had _____ opportunities to apprehend or kill Osama Bin Laden prior to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
Surge,
You made no point. Me 1/You 0
I served in the military for 6 years. You don’t know me. But to call what happened “SYSTEMATIC” is quite arrogant given that other organizations don’t agree with that assessment. Of course an “International” organization which includes nations that don’t like us would say things like that.
Find time to get to the bottom of stories instead of believing the worst things said about America without question and you’ll start winning debates…..
Purple Fury,
They couldn’t step up to the plate I noticed.
KaPow. Purple Fury 1/Darren 0