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	<title>Comments on: Bush uses his veto</title>
	<atom:link href="http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/</link>
	<description>news and commentary from a conservative perspective</description>
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		<title>By: dedalus</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-97079</link>
		<dc:creator>dedalus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 17:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-97079</guid>
		<description>Thanks to EdDantes for the info and the link to theBLuR.  I agree with most of your points in your June 21 posting and recommend it to others as a great read.

Governments do infrastructure—from roads, to security, to disease control—that the capital markets aren’t effective at funding.  Some infrastructure investments are foolish boondoggles and some greatly improve our quality of life and provide the foundation for private investment.  I’m particularly grateful for some of the work that DARPA did in the 1960’s which laid the ground work for me to watch videos on Hot Air four decades later.

President Bush has made a principled (rather than a scientific) argument against embryonic stem cell research.  You correctly call out the Dems for wildly hyping the near-term applications of embryonic stem cell research, but President Bush in his veto called the work done by scientists in this field “unethical”.  If he genuinely believes that shouldn’t he more tightly regulate the destruction of zygotes and blastocysts during IVF?  Perhaps enforce the continued cryopreservation of the 400,000 embryos that are currently frozen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to EdDantes for the info and the link to theBLuR.  I agree with most of your points in your June 21 posting and recommend it to others as a great read.</p>
<p>Governments do infrastructure—from roads, to security, to disease control—that the capital markets aren’t effective at funding.  Some infrastructure investments are foolish boondoggles and some greatly improve our quality of life and provide the foundation for private investment.  I’m particularly grateful for some of the work that DARPA did in the 1960’s which laid the ground work for me to watch videos on Hot Air four decades later.</p>
<p>President Bush has made a principled (rather than a scientific) argument against embryonic stem cell research.  You correctly call out the Dems for wildly hyping the near-term applications of embryonic stem cell research, but President Bush in his veto called the work done by scientists in this field “unethical”.  If he genuinely believes that shouldn’t he more tightly regulate the destruction of zygotes and blastocysts during IVF?  Perhaps enforce the continued cryopreservation of the 400,000 embryos that are currently frozen?</p>
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		<title>By: ammonrae</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-96586</link>
		<dc:creator>ammonrae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 18:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-96586</guid>
		<description>Yea I support the veto...children need love and mercy....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yea I support the veto&#8230;children need love and mercy&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Wanderlust</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-96490</link>
		<dc:creator>Wanderlust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:32:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-96490</guid>
		<description>So, &lt;strong&gt;mangle1&lt;/strong&gt;, &quot;American science&quot; is so weak that it must be funded by tax dollars or else it will die?

Last I checked, the commercial biotech industry in the US is quite healthy, and (by any indication from the investment $$$ poured into that sector from venture capitalists) very lucrative.

Yet this research dog, embryonic stem cell research, can only survive if the US Government funds it, according to your side of the political aisle. 

Silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, <strong>mangle1</strong>, &#8220;American science&#8221; is so weak that it must be funded by tax dollars or else it will die?</p>
<p>Last I checked, the commercial biotech industry in the US is quite healthy, and (by any indication from the investment $$$ poured into that sector from venture capitalists) very lucrative.</p>
<p>Yet this research dog, embryonic stem cell research, can only survive if the US Government funds it, according to your side of the political aisle. </p>
<p>Silly.</p>
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		<title>By: EdDantes</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-96448</link>
		<dc:creator>EdDantes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-96448</guid>
		<description>#19-that would be because they don&#039;t know what they&#039;re talking about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#19-that would be because they don&#8217;t know what they&#8217;re talking about.</p>
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		<title>By: Malleus Rex</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95824</link>
		<dc:creator>Malleus Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95824</guid>
		<description>I watched Dem leadership response in the afternoon on C-Spam.  Typical lies:  Bush has banned research. (not true - he banned taxpayer funded research)

67% of Americans support research.  (not true - the question is loaded - makes no mention that human life is destroyed as a result of the reseach)

Dems weren&#039;t twisting words - they were flat out lying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I watched Dem leadership response in the afternoon on C-Spam.  Typical lies:  Bush has banned research. (not true &#8211; he banned taxpayer funded research)</p>
<p>67% of Americans support research.  (not true &#8211; the question is loaded &#8211; makes no mention that human life is destroyed as a result of the reseach)</p>
<p>Dems weren&#8217;t twisting words &#8211; they were flat out lying.</p>
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		<title>By: miron</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95664</link>
		<dc:creator>miron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95664</guid>
		<description>Prez Bush deserves credit for this. The merchants of death have been prevented from plying their trade on this one. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prez Bush deserves credit for this. The merchants of death have been prevented from plying their trade on this one. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: chow</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95653</link>
		<dc:creator>chow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95653</guid>
		<description>The fact that there is not progress (and likely will be no progress) from embryonic stem cells does not matter in this controversy. It is widely known that all the stem cell research which has shown progress have been of the non-stem variety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that there is not progress (and likely will be no progress) from embryonic stem cells does not matter in this controversy. It is widely known that all the stem cell research which has shown progress have been of the non-stem variety.</p>
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		<title>By: EdDantes</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95648</link>
		<dc:creator>EdDantes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95648</guid>
		<description>dedalus,  you&#039;re wrong.  Not all Adult Stem Cells have to be targeted to the organ they came from, some are pluripotent(they are, however, as you suggest, not as adaptable as ESCs are assumed to be, which makes ASCs much safer for use).  For disease curing purposes, multipotent cells such as the adult progenitor cells found in bone marrow are perfectly useful seeing as how they are just a more advanced stem cell. 

The fact is there has not been any plausible scientific evidence that shows that the use of ESC lines is beneficial.  John Edwards, however, calls ESC research &lt;blockquote&gt;responsible, life-saving medical research. &lt;/blockquote&gt;  On the contrary, ESCs have been shown to cause tumors, uncontrollable proliferation, and are genetically unstable.  What&#039;s responsible and lifesaving about that? You also won&#039;t hear proponents of ESC research talk about how ESCs have to be genetically altered to have any chance of working, even in mice (this is called therapeutic cloning and is actually one step removed from reproductive cloning).  That&#039;s almost 10 years of scientific study with no results. 

On the other hand, ASCs have been shown to produce nerve cells, skeletal muscle, and cardiac muscle when harvested from bone marrow.  Also, the federal government currently provides funding for ASC research.  

But I applaud your style, &quot;never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.&quot;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://blriggle.blogspot.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The BLuR&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dedalus,  you&#8217;re wrong.  Not all Adult Stem Cells have to be targeted to the organ they came from, some are pluripotent(they are, however, as you suggest, not as adaptable as ESCs are assumed to be, which makes ASCs much safer for use).  For disease curing purposes, multipotent cells such as the adult progenitor cells found in bone marrow are perfectly useful seeing as how they are just a more advanced stem cell. </p>
<p>The fact is there has not been any plausible scientific evidence that shows that the use of ESC lines is beneficial.  John Edwards, however, calls ESC research<br />
<blockquote>responsible, life-saving medical research. </p></blockquote>
<p>  On the contrary, ESCs have been shown to cause tumors, uncontrollable proliferation, and are genetically unstable.  What&#8217;s responsible and lifesaving about that? You also won&#8217;t hear proponents of ESC research talk about how ESCs have to be genetically altered to have any chance of working, even in mice (this is called therapeutic cloning and is actually one step removed from reproductive cloning).  That&#8217;s almost 10 years of scientific study with no results. </p>
<p>On the other hand, ASCs have been shown to produce nerve cells, skeletal muscle, and cardiac muscle when harvested from bone marrow.  Also, the federal government currently provides funding for ASC research.  </p>
<p>But I applaud your style, &#8220;never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://blriggle.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">The BLuR</a></p>
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		<title>By: BKennedy</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95637</link>
		<dc:creator>BKennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95637</guid>
		<description>You know, its funny how the &quot;pro-science&quot; crowd gets so squeamish about showing women sonograms depicting the inside of their wombs, then turn around and say if we don&#039;t support funding for embryonic stem cell research, a crapshoot with no results thus far, we are anti-science.

Apparently, you&#039;re only &quot;pro-science&quot; if you feel Hitler&#039;s experiments on human beings were not ethically challenged.

More chilling still is that there are a lot of &quot;bioethicists&quot; that have no problem with cloning, embryonic stem cell research, or any other experiment where human beings are killed for &quot;the greater good(TM).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, its funny how the &#8220;pro-science&#8221; crowd gets so squeamish about showing women sonograms depicting the inside of their wombs, then turn around and say if we don&#8217;t support funding for embryonic stem cell research, a crapshoot with no results thus far, we are anti-science.</p>
<p>Apparently, you&#8217;re only &#8220;pro-science&#8221; if you feel Hitler&#8217;s experiments on human beings were not ethically challenged.</p>
<p>More chilling still is that there are a lot of &#8220;bioethicists&#8221; that have no problem with cloning, embryonic stem cell research, or any other experiment where human beings are killed for &#8220;the greater good(TM).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: deedledee</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95607</link>
		<dc:creator>deedledee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95607</guid>
		<description>Two quotes from Harry Potter, of all things, sum up my feelings

“It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” We may someday have the ability to figure out how to use embryonic stem cells, but what does the choice to use embryos in the first place say about us?

&quot;Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy&quot;  That is what it comes down to...what is right?  As the sister of a brother who was brain damaged by a virus and lived almost 5 years after, I know what these illnesses can do to a family, but to abuse the lives of our pre-born to me would be as bad as saying my brother was a useless, non-productive, medical-resource-wasting non-entity.  Oh, where have I heard that before...Terri Schindler Schiavo?  Some lives are not worth respecting and protecting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two quotes from Harry Potter, of all things, sum up my feelings</p>
<p>“It is our choices Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities.” We may someday have the ability to figure out how to use embryonic stem cells, but what does the choice to use embryos in the first place say about us?</p>
<p>&#8220;Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy&#8221;  That is what it comes down to&#8230;what is right?  As the sister of a brother who was brain damaged by a virus and lived almost 5 years after, I know what these illnesses can do to a family, but to abuse the lives of our pre-born to me would be as bad as saying my brother was a useless, non-productive, medical-resource-wasting non-entity.  Oh, where have I heard that before&#8230;Terri Schindler Schiavo?  Some lives are not worth respecting and protecting?</p>
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		<title>By: On-my-soap-box</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95575</link>
		<dc:creator>On-my-soap-box</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:41:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95575</guid>
		<description>HAHA pgtips - beat ya to it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HAHA pgtips &#8211; beat ya to it!</p>
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		<title>By: pgtips</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95567</link>
		<dc:creator>pgtips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:37:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95567</guid>
		<description>#10 - Exactly. If you see embryos as human beings, you will treat them as human beings. 

#7 - Embryonic stem cell research is of dubious value. After 20 or so years, there is nothing to show for it. Not only that, as others have mentioned if embryonic stem cell research contains so much benefit, why isn&#039;t there private investment into this area? Why do they need federal funding? That&#039;s because business savvy people see no future in the area.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#10 &#8211; Exactly. If you see embryos as human beings, you will treat them as human beings. </p>
<p>#7 &#8211; Embryonic stem cell research is of dubious value. After 20 or so years, there is nothing to show for it. Not only that, as others have mentioned if embryonic stem cell research contains so much benefit, why isn&#8217;t there private investment into this area? Why do they need federal funding? That&#8217;s because business savvy people see no future in the area.</p>
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		<title>By: On-my-soap-box</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95564</link>
		<dc:creator>On-my-soap-box</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95564</guid>
		<description>Right Terrier.  The reason ESR is not publicly funded is it will die.  No private sector is going to touch it when adult stem cells work and there is no instance where embryonic stem cells do a good job.  The pluripotent argument does not hold water.  If it did, you would not need government funding.  You need government funding to keep it alive.  Science did not take a hit.  It is science that has kept embryonic stem cells out of the market.  The fact is, adult stem cells work, are readily available and there is often little need for a donor.  American science?  What is that??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right Terrier.  The reason ESR is not publicly funded is it will die.  No private sector is going to touch it when adult stem cells work and there is no instance where embryonic stem cells do a good job.  The pluripotent argument does not hold water.  If it did, you would not need government funding.  You need government funding to keep it alive.  Science did not take a hit.  It is science that has kept embryonic stem cells out of the market.  The fact is, adult stem cells work, are readily available and there is often little need for a donor.  American science?  What is that??</p>
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		<title>By: ElCee</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95559</link>
		<dc:creator>ElCee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:29:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95559</guid>
		<description>#7 - Actually, pluripotent stem cells have been found in various tissue: the spinal cord, the brain, and especially promising, the umbilical cord.

And in my viewpoint, unused embryos should be buried or cremated as the human beings they are, not treated as research material.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#7 &#8211; Actually, pluripotent stem cells have been found in various tissue: the spinal cord, the brain, and especially promising, the umbilical cord.</p>
<p>And in my viewpoint, unused embryos should be buried or cremated as the human beings they are, not treated as research material.</p>
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		<title>By: Terrier</title>
		<link>http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/comment-page-1/#comment-95540</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://michellemalkin.com/2007/06/20/bush-uses-his-veto/#comment-95540</guid>
		<description>Bush didn&#039;t ban embryonic stem cell research, only the federal funding of such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush didn&#8217;t ban embryonic stem cell research, only the federal funding of such.</p>
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