The Pinko Blogburst
Henry Gomez at Babalu Blog led an anti-socialist blogburst this week to counter Michael Moore’s anti-American, pro-Cuban health care crockumentary.
Claudia 4 Libertad strikes back:
Ask any Cuban who has recently left the island (because they can’t talk freely about this inside of Cuba) about their health care system and they will tell you that it is often a challenge just to get aspirin and they often have to get it on the black market. The run-down, dilapidated and unsanitary conditions in the facilities that the average Cuban must go to for care are a far cry from the hospitals and clinics reserved for high-ranking members of the communist party or the military. There are actually special facilities in Cuba that serve foreigners who can pay in foreign currency.
If the lauded Cuban healthcare system is so wonderful, perhaps someone can explain to me the following:
* Why some patients are taken to the hospital in wheelbarrows instead of ambulances?
* Why patients must bring their own linens for the hospital bed and often, a fan, to combat the stifling heat and lack of air-conditioning?
* Why cockroaches and other vermin are present in what is supposed to be “sanitary” health facilities? Why many common medicines are not available? If Cuba can export cutting-edge biotechnological products to other countries, surely the US embargo cannot be blamed for not allowing medicine to enter Cuba.
* Why, in a 185-bed cancer center in Santiago where some 6,000 people are treated MONTHLY, there is a shortage of basics such as codeine, anti-nausea drugs, anti-inflammatory drugs, antibiotics, antacids, laxatives, high blood pressure medicine, antihistamines, anti-depressants, contraceptives, vitamins and minerals? This particular hospital, sadly, is the norm, not the exception
* Why 41% of patients in Cuban hospitals are undernourished, particularly after surgery. Malnutrition risks increase with extended stays in the hospital, according to the U.S. National Institute of Health.Was any of this mentioned in “Sicko?” Of course not! The reason why is one to which I alluded earlier– Michael Moore is so anti-American, despite the fact that he makes millions off of the American people every time he makes a film, that he will do anything he can to exaggerate and distort the truth to make the Bush Administration look incompetent, evil and silly.
Well, Michael, I hate to tell you but the American people are on to you.
Val Prieto weighs in:
Is our system perfect? No, of course not. Are there serious problems? You betcha. But to throw the baby out with the bath water does not seem like a reasonable solution. Would the pharma company that funded the research study I participated in have funded it if there were no prospect of turning a profit in the end? Would any of us do the work we do if we weren’t going to be paid for it? Please!
I’m sure we all have stories about how we had to wait at the emergency room or how some doctor or other misdiagnosed us. But is socialized medicine going to solve those issues? Doubtful. More like exacerbate them. If we remove the profit motive from healthcare you might as well remove innovation. You really have to be a SiCKO to not see that.
Jim Hoft takes you on a pictorial tour of Cuba’s hospitals:
Someone should make a documentary…
***
Criticism of Moore from an unexpected corner: MTV! Yes, MTV’s Kurt Loder:
Fidel Castro’s island dictatorship, now in its 40th year of being listed as a human-rights violator by Amnesty International, is here depicted as a balmy paradise not unlike the Iraq of Saddam Hussein that Moore showed us in his earlier film, “Fahrenheit 9/11.” He and his charges make their way — their pre-arranged way, if it need be said — to a state-of-the-art hospital where they receive a picturesquely warm welcome. In a voiceover, Moore, shown beaming at his little band of visitors, says he told the Cuban doctors to “give them the same care they’d give Cuban citizens.” Then he adds, dramatically: “And they did.”
If Moore really believes this, he may be a greater fool than even his most feverish detractors claim him to be. Nevertheless, medical care is provided to the visiting Americans, and it is indeed excellent. Cuba is in fact the site of some world-class medical facilities (surprising in a country that, as Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar noted in the Los Angeles Times last month, “imprisoned a doctor in the late 1990s for speaking out against government failure to respond to an epidemic of a mosquito-borne virus”). What Moore doesn’t mention is the flourishing Cuban industry of “health tourism” — a system in which foreigners (including self-admitted multimillionaire film directors and, of course, government bigwigs) who are willing to pay cash for anything from brain-surgery to dental work can purchase a level of treatment that’s unavailable to the majority of Cubans with no hard currency at their disposal. The Cuban American National Foundation (admittedly a group with no love for the Castro regime) calls this “medical apartheid.” And in a 2004 article in Canada’s National Post, writer Isabel Vincent quoted a dissident Cuban neurosurgeon, Doctor Hilda Molina, as saying, “Cubans should be treated the same as foreigners. Cubans have less rights in their own country than foreigners who visit here.”
As the Caribbean sun sank down on Moore’s breathtakingly meretricious movie, I couldn’t help recalling that when Fidel Castro became gravely ill last year, he didn’t put himself in the hands of a Cuban surgeon. No. Instead, he had a specialist flown in — from Spain.
Exactamente!
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Categories: Cuba, Health care, Michael Moore
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I haven’t seen the movie yet, but I have seen the trailer. There is one part in the trailer where he sites that America’s health care world ranking has slipped to an all time low of 37th. He points out that we are just ahead of Slovinia which is 38th, but he fails to point out that Cuba is ranked 39th on this list ( it comes at 1:10 mark in the trailer if you want to check it out).
I am a Canadian who “enjoys” the benefits of socialized medicine. In my case, I was having trouble sleeping so my doctor put me in the line up to get into a sleep clinic to determine what the cause was. It took THREE YEARS to get in and get a diagnosis. The diagnosis was chronic obstructive sleep apnea, a life threatening condition. The cause was three fold, a badly deviated septum, restless leg syndrome and about 35 pounds of extra weight. My family doctor referred me to an ENT specialist who examined me and scheduled me for surgery (to correct the septum) on an urgent basis. It took two years to get in and get this corrected. There was no treatment for the leg problem and I was told I was on my own to deal with the weight. I have lost the weight and have taken up running to keep it off but this whole episode took five years to resolve and I was on my own to deal with two of the three problems. Yeah, socialized medicine treats everyone equally, equally crappy. Americans who have no insurance get better care through MediCare and MediCaid than we get because there are no line ups. Our system provides zero innovation because there is no money in it. Most of our best and brightest people migrate south to get a chance to have their efforts recognized economically so we are more and more dependent on immigrant doctors who have a “different” perspective when it comes to the value of human life.
Michael Moore is a liar. All of his past movies have eventually been exposed for the crocks they are. In Canada and other places, he is celebrated because he is so anti-American but this film is going to destroy his credibility here and elsewhere because the population knows what a screw up socialized medicine is.
That’s a good point. We may be 37th, but if you were in need of a heart transplant or specialized surgery, there is nowhere better in the world to be. Our technology far outpaces the rest of the world.
Loder’s review, particularly considering it’s posted on MTV’s sight, is absolutely refreshing.
Everybody go to The Real Cuba for “THE TRUTH” about Cuba and the so called Healthcare the Cuban people are getting…
Good on Kurt Loder. This would seem like the prevailing logic on the issue, however, a lot of folks don’t seem to see it that way.
Ace linked Kurt Loder’s review yesterday, Loder really pwn3d Moore! Its an odd source for such a beatdown of Moore, but a welcome one.
Oh, and Michelle, you did awesome on the Factor yesterday. It was so refreshing to have an hour with no stupid tabloid celeb stories, said so at HA too.
I was married to a Cubana for a while.
While I was living there, a friend of the family had a daughter who needed ear surgery. The family had to provide the razor to shave her head. The “hospital” smelled like a urinal. We had to drinking water and water to bath her along with the tylenol, which we had brought from the US, because none was available at the hospital or pharmacies.
Cubans are not allowed in the hotels, except for hookers, or many of the stores.
There was a long line,more than 80 people, outside one store.
When I started to walk to the back of the line, my Cuban wife walked me to the front of the line. We walked right in because of my Ameican passport.
Cubans truely are second class citizens in their own country.
P.S. I’ve posted it before,but one of the most apppalling thing in that country, Sanitary napkins. Women hav a ration card which they take to the hospital to pick up the 12 the are supposed to be issued each YEAR.
When they get to the hospital there are no sanitary napkins because they’ve been sold on the balck market. Most of the women of Cuba must literally ue rags.
say what you will about batista, but cuban women sure had tampons then.
This is a nice anti Michael Moore site:
MooreWatch.com
It’s all Bush’s fault that cuba is on the skids, or at least republicans. It is certainly not the system or the leader of cuba.[/dkos mode]
Thanks for this update Michelle.
I haven’t seen SiCKO’s film as yet. When it comes around, I’ll try to sit through it just to reconfirm my belief that Michael the Mooor is a pro-communist, Bush hating ignorant turn coat. I doubt my view of him will change but I’ll watch the DVD if someone I know buys it…
The Raging Republican, it’s clear you haven’t seen the movie. Moorewatch.com is featured in the film, but not for the reason you might think. Seriously, watch the movie with an open mind. I’m willing to listen to anyone who has a thoughtful opinion to share. Republican, Democrat and Independents alike that I spoke to LOVED THE MOVIE.
Not just the liberal media is praising the movie:
FOX News wrote a positive review for the movie. http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,273875,00.html
Salt Lake City Tribune
http://www.sltrib.com/entertainment/ci_6255344
BusinessWeek:
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/jun2007/gb20070628_579158.htm?chan=globalbiz_europe+index+page_top+stories
CNN says facts are mostly right in the movie:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Movies/06/28/review.sicko/
Not all have been positive…
A Fellow at the Manhattan Institute wrote against it:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118299749082651013.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
CNN Article says more context would be nice:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/06/28/sicko.fact.check/index.html
Other than the MTV article, there aren’t that many articles out there that says Sicko is wrong. I’ve read positive review, after positive review, after positive review.
The fact that Cuba is 39th is something I noticed too. I don’t if that is something to be proud of considering all of the money we put into health care? The fact of the matter is that France (#1), Canada (#30) the UK (#18), The United Arab Emerites (#27), are all ahead of us. THAT disappoints me more than anything else.
He rails against Hillary too. Bush doesn’t get the hate pointed at him in this movie as in Fahrenheit 9/11 (I don’t know how much that is saying). But seriously, Bush isn’t seen much in the movie.
The WHO study was published in 2000 based on data that is at least ten years old. There are many flaws with its methodology that have lead experts to discount its results. You can read about it at http://www.who.int/health-systems-performance/docs/articles/lancet_navarroresponse.pdf and http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/centres/che/pubs/wp125.pdf Just a small excerpt from the summary
The present analysis demonstrates that this highly innovative study is seriously flawed in several respects. The choice of objectives is contestable and there is a particularly strong case for omitting the equity of financing from the list and replacing it with an index of access, both financial and geographical. The weights attached to the system objectives have not been validated. It is highly unlikely that a single set of weights or a single set of objectives can be obtained which are a valid reflection of the aspirations of every country in the world. Subsequent analyses may need to explore the option of using country specific values and modelling them in such a way that results may be comparable between nations. As with the modelling of the quality of life, there has been very little consideration of the validity of the underlying model which combines the scores and weights of the different objectives into a single index of performance. It has been shown here that the ranking of nations may be sensitive to the choice of the combination model. Different models have different properties and the appropriate property for the present exercise needs to be given careful consideration.
Finally, results here suggest that the simultaneous inclusion of every country in the analysis will lead to invalid and unreliable results. While this difficulty is easily overcome—there are sufficient observations to carry out sensible sub-analyses—a more intractable problem may arise because of the paucity of data. Omitted variables may correlate with health expenditure or education to an unknown extent. Consequently model parameters may be distorted and country specific affects change to an unknown extent. It appears likely that this problem may have driven many of the WHO results.
THANK YOU MICHELLE FOR MAKING THIS YOUR TOP STORY!!!
The more people talk about health care, the better.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Visualize Cuban health care
The hate of the far left, like Moore, might actually be having a horrible effect on us that we have not yet linked. The above quote sounds hideously like illegal aliens in America having many more rights than American citizens. From free ER medical care to no back taxes need paid, to no ID’s need to be shown, etc.
Keep it up Fidel Moore, you might get what you wish for, socialized medicine in the US. Then where will you go?
If you think health care is expensive now, just wait until it is free.
A friend of our who lived in the UK for several years, told us that whenever one of the family got sick or injured, the only way to get medical attention quickly was to buy an airline ticket to the US. Waiting lines are very common and it can take a long time to get proper medical service… of course it is free
[ he sites that America’s health care world ranking has slipped to an all time low of 37th. He points out that we are just ahead of Slovinia which is 38th, but he fails to point out that Cuba is ranked 39th on this list ]
Exactly who came up with this list? That always gets me. I’ll bet those above us are ALL socialist run countries … and the “List” was put together by a pro-socialist.
You go to any major hospital in the States and there are patients from other countries who came there for the surgery or health care.
Last Fall, during job transition, we had to look for a health insurance company on our own (out of pocket … refusing to be counted with those who are “uninsured” in this country … yeah, it stung our budget, and we didn’t use as much as we paid in … but there it is). The one agent actually showed us a package, for a “few” dollars more” that included coverage for you to be flown back to the States for hospitalization or medical care if you had an accident or became ill while abroad. He didn’t push the issue, since we weren’t globe-trotters, but did mention if we frequented Canada or Mexico we should consider it.
#7 Bad Candy
I’ve been reading these blogs forever, and hate to admit ignorance, but will someone please tell me what “pwn3d” means. I’m sure this will turn out to be a forehead-slap “duh” but well…
“pwn3d” is leet-speak for “owned.” If someone says they pwn3d you, they’re basically saying they kicked your butt in some manner.
Thanks Rip Ford!
Now (smiling) what’s “leet-Speak”?
Darknight:
The Fox News article claims that Sicko is “Brillliant and Uplifting” and is also written by an entertainment columnist who makes a name for himself by reporting on celebrities such as Michael Jackson. Not a credible example.
The Salt Lake City article, also a movie review. Great for entertainment, but pointless for political discussion.
The Businessweek article is not an article praising the movie, but talking about the benefits and drawbacks of the French healthcare system. A good article, but even the title says “The nation’s system isn’t quite as superb as Sicko maintains, but still it’s pretty good.” Suggesting that Moore, gasp, exaggerates his claims!
The CNN piece is simply stating that the numbers Moore flashes are somewhat correct, but not entirely accurate. In fact, the article mentions Moore inflates the numbers. If two researchers for CNN could get the correct numbers in about 2 days Moore’s team couldn’t get the correct numbers in year’s of research? It’s not, as you say, “praise” by non-liberal media.
We’re glad that you enjoyed the movie and I hope the popcorn was good, but just creating an entertaining flick does not make Moore’s reporting accurate and responsible.
It is obvious to even the most obtuse of people that Moore exaggerates claims to benefit his viewpoints. The problem with Michael Moore is that his documentaries are more political action movies motivated by his own personal agenda. Moore does not have the ability to step back and look at the big picture because he is clouded by his own vision.
Anyway, I saw the movie, it bored me near the point of tears, and it reeked of hypocrisy.
Give him enough cameras, editors, and soundbites and Michael Moore could make a urinal at the Times Square subway station look as pristine as the Taj Mahal.
As bad as Cuban hospitals may be, I don’t think they’re a challenge to King/Drew.
Considering the web sites that have been posted here in this thread, and considering that WHO placed us only 2 ahead of Cuba is just flat laughable. I work with folks from all around the world, most of these folks are shocked by the availability of quality health care here. If the Gov gets involved, does anyone really think our best and brightest will take up Medicine? Anyone ever wonder why their are so many foreign Md’s here? We do have problems with our Health care system, but it sure isn’t the quality of it. The Dr’s and their staff’s are just fine, it’s the lawyers that are the biggest part of the problem.
DK: Moore has suggested that we should all be paying 70% tax, don’t know about you but that seals the deal between me and Moore.
leepro,
You can learn everything you might want to know about leet or l33t here
This Moore Sicko thing is an attempt to fool people. It is known in the former Eastern Block Countries as communist lies. Nothing more, nothing less.
Where was the hypocrisy? I’d love to hear your citations. Also, I used sources that I thought would not be easily labeled “Liberal Media.” If you want me to list all of the established newspapers that gave the movie positive reviews, just say that word and I’ll be happy to do so. In my opinion, those reviews were for the most part accurate in that it called attention to a serious problem. Like him or not, Moore called attention to a huge problem. We’re talking it now aren’t we? My request is that if you don’t like Moore’s idea of government health care, tell us how you’d do it. And don’t say keep it the way it is, because even MM said the system stinks the way it is currently set up.
ChiefRZ, the stories in that movies were real sir. Those have a hard time being faked. But i’m open to hear what parts of the movie (if you even saw it) were communist.
Is there a source (or quote) to back that statement up?
Positive reviews don’t mean anything. Movie critics tend to know about things like cinematography, editing, and directing. The ins and outs of various countries healthcare systems doesn’t exactly come up on a frequent basis in their line of work. In short, Roger Ebert and Gene Shalit aren’t real high on the list of people I would considered qualified to fact check a healthcare documentary.
DK: The point is you’re using movie reviews as “positive” reviews from non-liberal media. That’s their job, to report movies as they see them in terms of entertainment value. Every one of the movie reveiws you posted said that Moore exaggerated facts!!! People were talking healthcare way before Michael Moore made Sicko, and the point is he exaggerates things to make his point and doesn’t focus on both sides of the issue. The Cuba perception is a perfect example. What a load of BS.
The hypocrisy comes from Michael Moore “outing” the system while being selective of the information that he puts across. Moore is best described as a scam artist and his tactics remind me of a used car salesman, trying to push ridiculous benefits while covering up the whole truth. I certainly hope you can see through his hype.
Moore is trying to make his point of de-privatizing healthcare, so he conveniently fails to mention the benefits of privatized healthcare in favor of the hazards. He doesn’t even point out in his movie that the French system relies greatly on the private healthcare system. He presents the French system as if it’s 100% government run. It’s a crock and even you have to admit that.
In terms of “people talking about it,” you’re way behind the times if you think that Moore is responsible for the dialogue on healthcare. You probably think Al Gore really invented the internet and created the idea of Global Warming as well. Business owners, self employed individuals, and workers alike have all been burdened with the high cost of healthcare way before Moore made his crockumentary. Funny how Moore didn’t interview people who had to wait 2 years to have surgery in Canada or people in the UK who were turned down for elective procedures or who have to wait over 5 years for elective procedures.
The good news is that if Moore has his way, at least he’ll have to wait 3-5 years to have the elective surgery to get his head removed from his _#$.
Has any interviewer asked Mr. Moore this question:”If you became ill or in need of hospitalization, would you choose an American hospital or a foreign hospital”?
By the way, were you paying attention to when Moore was running around challenging people like Fred Thompson to debate him on the healthcare issue? Tom Delay offered to debate him and it took Moore all of 5 seconds to start making up excuses to weasel out of it.
So, basically, the reviews of Sicko tell us that Moore has done a good job of detailing the shortcomings of the outhouse…but when it comes time to install the indoor plumbing, he hasn’t a clue what he’s doing.
Gotcha. I already figured that Moore’s movie was a waste of time and had already planned to go see “Live Free or Die Hard” instead. Please let me know when somebody comes up with a credible plan to reform the American health care system that both preserves free enterprise and doesn’t make the problem worse.
And as for Kurt Loder’s fisking of Moore’s movie…Ouch. That had to leave a mark.
And DarkKnight, if - God forbid - you get cancer, I recommend Sloan Kettering (you’re in NY?) over Cuba. And getting the $400 haircut lawyers out of the medical system would be a good start to improving things. (Getting them out of politics wouldn’t hurt either.)
Sicko, produced by Assho.
Well, let’s say this so there can be something productive as a result of this conversation. I don’t think that Moore rails against the quality of care once people are approved for their procedure. He is talking about how the more people are denied care in the first place than the more profit the hospital make is terrible. The point Moore was making is that same quality healthcare is available for little or nothing elsewhere. No wonder people go to Canada.
Original.
Edit: He is talking about how the fact that the more people are denied care in the first place , the more profit the HMO makes is terrible.
After how these corporations just treated us during the immigration debacle. I don’t trust a one of them. HMO or otherwise. They’re set up to screw us.
My jaw dropped at the Kurt Loder artical.. He has openly shown bias in his news reports when I use to watch MTV.. is that almost akin to leaving the reservation?
You know why its profitable for HMOs to deny people healthcare? Because the government decided to screw with the healthcare system.
Once upon a time, people were responsible for their own healthcare. That meant that when a doctor, hospital, or insurance company wasn’t treating them properly, they could simply take their money to a competitor. This gave doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies incentive to give people good service.
Then the government stepped in and said, “You shouldn’t be paying for your healthcare. Your employer should pick up the tab.” Only the second employers started paying, the consumers lost their ability to choose who their healthcare provider was. That was now in the control of the employers and, to no one’s surprise, they were more interested in saving money than making sure their employees were getting the best healthcare available.
Well guess what happened once the main concern was keeping costs down with patients unable to switch providers if they were unhappy? Government intervention made the situation bad. You’re insane if you think further government meddling will somehow make things better.
Ed and DK make some great points.
Ed’s portrayal of Moore’s technique is spot on. Compare the way that Moore propogandizes health care or guns and then look closely at how Sam Adams did the same thing with American independence. You would immediately see many similarities.
Better yet, Moore resembles Soviet propoganda in that some of his fact flakes are out and out lies. Adams was not beyond exaggeration. But he never would have just made stuff up like Moore apparently does.
And DK is also correct about how health care and profit are being mixed in a most “unhealthy” manner. If someone needs a diagnostic test, give them the damn test. The run around you can get from an HMO or insurance company is outrageous and must be addressed. Too many people are being denied basic, good care as a result not of incompetence on the part of doctors or hospitals but because the insurance company wants to save a few bucks.
And Rip’a point about government sticking its nose in healthcare is fine as far as it goes. The problem, Rip, is that everyone can’t be responsible for their own health care - not in the 21st century. Even without the government intervening or lawyers messing with the system, the cost is just too much for most people to bear.
Yeah, and who drove up the cost? The government did. Back when people could shop around, competition helped keep costs down. The decrease in competition that resulted in the government mandate that employers provide healthcare to their employees has allowed insurance companies to drive up prices.
You see, employers don’t have time to run around shopping for healthcare for each employee on an individual basis. They have a business to run so they have to rely on insurance companies to create healthcare networks they can then purchase for their employees. This puts a lot of power over healthcare into the hands of the insurance companies.
Do you know how the insurance industry rates the healthcare coverage provided by different insurance companies? By how deep a discount they get from doctors and hospitals. If a doctor or hospital comes along that wants to charge reasonable, affordable rates they won’t be able to give the insurance companies deep discounts because they’re already operating at close to their costs and doing procedures at less than cost is a good way to go bankrupt. But if they don’t provide insurance companies with deep discounts, insurance companies won’t put them in their networks. If they can’t get into any insurance networks, they won’t get enough patients to stay in business even with affordable pricing. Consequently they have no choice but to charge outrageous prices so they can give the insurance companies the deep discounts they demand. This works out well for the insurance companies because those outrageous prices insure that people can’t afford healthcare unless they have insurance.
Compare that to the way things were before employers were required to provide healthcare. If a doctor or hospital provided good service at reasonable rates they’d get business whether the insurance companies wanted to do business with them or not. People would just self-insure. If insurance companies wanted their business they had to play ball. They didn’t get to dictate terms like they do now.
Yeah, government meddling in the healthcare industry has worked out so well for Americans. [/sarcasm off]
One must seriously question whether those who support Moore by paying to see and agreeing with his distorted fiction are, in fact, “American people.”
Here’s a prime example of what I’m talking about. Town & Country Hospital in Houston was driven out of business because only one major insurance company would do business with them. Thats the sort of power the government handed over to the insurance companies.
Drive up prices, I see your argument. Drive them up to these profit numbers, seemingly at the expense of the middle class, rediculous.
HMO Profits Jump 21% in First Quarter 2005
Profit Margin Increases despite Signs of a Slowdown
JUPITER, Fla., October 24, 2005 – The nation’s HMOs reported a $3.6 billion profit for the first three months of 2005, representing a $646 million, or 21.4 percent, increase over the $3.0 billion earned during the first quarter of 2004, according to Weiss Ratings, Inc., the nation’s leading independent provider of ratings and analyses of financial services companies, mutual funds, and stocks. While the 21.4 percent profit increase still represents strong growth for the industry, it is considerably less than other recent first-quarter increases, including 152.7 percent in 2002, 60.9 percent in 2003, and 32.9 percent in 2004.
HMOs reporting the largest year-over-year increases in net income include:
Company Headquarters Weiss
Safety
Rating Net Income (Loss)
ARRANGED 1st Qtr, 2005, 1st Qtr 2004, $
Change, % Change
Kaiser Foundation Health Plan, Inc. Oakland, Calif. B+ 552.2 431.3 120.9 28.0
Horizon Healthcare Services, Inc. Newark, N.J. A 50.3 14.6 35.7 245.0
Horizon Healthcare of New Jersey, Inc. Newark, N.J. A 34.4 4.4 30.1 686.8
Health Net Woodland Hills, Calif. B 33.0 10.7 22.4 209.9
Oxford Health Insurance, Inc. New York, N.Y. B 44.5 22.8 21.6 94.7
Weiss Safety Rating: A=Excellent; B=Good; C=Fair; D=Weak; E=Very Weak; F=Failed; U=Unrated
This might be the most outrageous comment I’ve read on this site.
I agree with Moore on some points and disagree on others.
But don’t you dare question my patriotism, sir, or my right to be in American. This is a dangerous path on which you do not want to tread.
Edit to last post: an American
You’re looking at the HMOs. You need to be looking at the insurance companies. They’re the ones that make out like a bandit from high healthcare prices.
Say an HMO can do a procedure at a cost of $1,000 so they decide to sell the procedure at $1,200 a pop, giving them a nice but not extreme profit. In come the insurance companies who tell the HMO, we’ll put you in our network and pay you $1,200 a pop for the procedure but only if you normally charge $2,000 a pop for it. If the HMO doesn’t agree to this then they don’t get into the network. If they don’t get into the network they don’t get patients. If they don’t get patients, they go out of business just like Town & Country Hospital did.
Not wanting to be run out of business, the HMO slaps a $2,000 price tag on the procedure. So does the HMO make $1,000 every time they do the procedure? Not at all. The HMO gets very few uninsured patients. Most of their patients come from the insurance companies and the insurance companies only pay them $1,200 a pop for the procedure. Meanwhile the insurance companies makes lots of money off of people who can’t afford $2,000 for the medical procedure and thus have to buy insurance.
And why do the insurance companies have this sort of power? Because the federal government took buying power away from the individual consumers and turned it over to their employers who, rather predictably, then turned it over to the insurance companies.
DK:
Stop getting your panties in a twist. PG was not directing the comment specifically towards you. Besides, by your own admission you don’t agree with everything Moore says which also lets you out as someone PG was referring to.
Hypersensitivity does not become you. Relax.
Rick Moran,
There aren’t a lot of things that bother me in politics because I know that none of it is personal. But if there is one thing that burns me more than anything is when someone, anyone, questions the patriotism or status as a American just because of their political beliefs. Ever.
I.E. “If you don’t like the U.S., move to Canada.” “Anyone who doesn’t support the war is un-patriotic.”
The people who go to see a movie, SiCKO included, whether they believe it or not, is their right as an American. They are just as much an American as you or I and for anyone to question their right to believe what they believe is hypocrisy at best. I cannot tell you what to believe and I will not question your status as “American People” because of those beliefs. Period. Colonel David Hunt said it best on BOR that while he may not agree with some people’s opinion, he will defend their right to say it. I do not subscribe to the theory that there are some people who are more American and some that are not depending on their political beliefs. Now immigration status, different story.
And still no response as to the source of this comment…
Honestly, this has nothing to do with Moore caring one iota about health care. Tis just more propoganda to drive conservatives out of power. Debating our health care staus in the US - which is a thousand times better than anywhere else in the world - misses the point: where is the PBS documentary about how much better US health care is than the rest of the world? That’s really the issue here.
Fox has taken one terrific step forward by airing the Islam documentary that PBS wouldn’t touch and advertising it as such, but they need to do much, much more:
1. Show many, many more such pro-America, pro-Iraq war, pro-conservative values documentaries and air them as ” the documentaries PBS wouldn’t air” and “the reports the mainstream media is afraid for you to see”, and the like.
2. Stop showing them on the weekends when viewership among conservatives in the summer - who have real lives and do things when the weather is warm as opposed to pasty-skinned city liberals who veg in their own Orwellian squalor - and pre-empt O-Reilly during the week (Tuesday - Thursday is a good window), their biggest viewer draw - when numbers are predictably at their highest and the message gets out to an audience many times larger, as needs to be done.
The very simple fact is that conservative values will never, ever win back America until conservatives win back at least 50 percent of the media. It can be done, but requires a truly dedicated effort, and Fox isn’t living up to the challenge,yet.
By the way, it’s quite fair to question Moore’s patriotism. The relentless bashing of his own country, using enemy countries as examples, might seem intellectually honest to those viewing the world through the tiny, tunnelvision keyhole of their choice, but such all-out debasing of one’s own country is certainly in opposition of the term “patriot”. There are a million ways Moore could make his intellectually dishonest points, but he has chosen the route of propganda most damaging to his own country. Once upon a time, he could have been hanged as a traitor (true). Even in these “enlightened times”, he is certainly no patriot.
And those who are intelligent enough to know this and put money in his pocket and spread his dishonest propoganda are likewise not patriots.
You can whine all you want about the word “patriot” and being “patriotic” as though being described thusly are rights given to Americans at birth, but they aren’t: they’re distinctions which need to be earned. Those who fly in the face of those principles that define the words don’t qualify.
Sorry, but that’s the way it is in the real world without parsing, sematics and pretzel-logic idealism. Moore and those who behave like him are in no way entitled to be described as patriots. That’s just the way it is. Deal with it.
Excellent piece and comments! Castro and Moore are both sick pieces of human garbage…
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
destroy your healthcare system
Cuba’s filthy hospitals
are something to aspire to
.
absurd thought -
God of the Universe says
NO one deserves great healthcare
get checkups free and easy
just wait for critical care
.