Border fence? What border fence?
We can’t even build 14 damned miles, let alone the vaunted 370 promised by President Bush:
Bulldozers are rolling again on the U.S.-Mexico border, moving hundreds of tons of dirt to make way for a 16-foot steel fence in an area that once was the most popular crossing for illegal immigrants. But before the construction resumed recently, the 14-mile project in San Diego was stalled for years by legal challenges from environmentalists, budget problems and difficulties buying land. Those delays are now raising doubts about a government plan to extend fencing to 370 miles of the Mexican border.
Rep. Duncan Hunter is pushing DHS to move faster–and illuminates the fantasy deadlines set by the lip service Border Fence Act:
As Republican presidential candidate Rep. Duncan Hunter has staked out the U.S.-Mexico border fence as one of this top priorities, he has repeatedly criticized the Department of Homeland Security for planning to build only half of the 700 miles of border fence authorized by Congress last year and acting too slowly to do even that.
The Mexican border “is our biggest homeland security problem” and “this administration has a case of ‘the slows’ on border enforcement,” Hunter said at a Republican presidential candidate debate in May, repeating “the slows” criticism in the June debate…
…The Secure Fence Act (PL 109-367), passed just before the 2006 midterm elections, authorizes 700 miles of fencing along the Mexican border. Then-House Homeland Security Chairman Peter T. King, R-N.Y., sponsored the bill, and Hunter was an original cosponsor and author of its fencing provisions. The bill passed after a comprehensive immigration overhaul failed last session; the defeat of the Senate immigration bill (S 1639) late last month means a comprehensive immigration overhaul is also unlikely this session.
The Secure Fence Act says “the Secretary of Homeland Security shall provide for least 2 layers of reinforced fencing, the installation of additional physical barriers, roads, lighting, cameras and sensors” at five specific stretches of border totaling approximately 700 miles.
It sets three “priority area” deadlines — including one that was not met for an interlocking surveillance camera system along part of the border in California and Arizona by May 30, 2007, Hunter’s spokesman Joe Kasper said in an interview. Another deadline is for two-layered fencing to be installed in that section by June 2008. The third deadline is for the fencing to be installed in a Texas border section by 2009. No deadline is set for fencing to be completed in the three other sections.
Fourteen of the 700 miles of the fencing required by the Secure Fence Act have been built, in Arizona, and it is a single rather than double layer, according to Kasper, who said Hunter’s office consults with Border Patrol.
Environmentalists, business lobbyists, and ethnic groups are all uniting to stop the fence mandated by President Bush, spearheaded by immigration enforcement Republicans, and approved by 64 Democrats in the House and 26 Dems in the U.S. Senate - including, ahem, Sens. Hillary Clinton of New York and Barack Obama of Illinois.
Where are they now?
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This is probably the only time I would support eminent domain, build the fence now take the strip of land along the border and quit pussyfooting around. It’s time for all these agencies to DO THEIR JOBS!
We need to continue to contact our Senators and Representatives and ask:
“Where’s the Fence”
At least once a day would be good.
Also, on the DHS webpage you can report a security threat. How about:
Thousands of unknown people are walking across the U.S. border every day.
Could that maybe be a security threat?
Is that were you got your “gut feeling” Mr. Jerkoff?
There is not going to be a 842 mile fence because this President does not want one, he wants open borders and he will do whatever he can to subvert the process of building. I cannot believe I voted for this President and not being conspiratorial or anything but it seems to me he helped get the Democratic congress elected to help him with his open borders. I suggest any Republican who wants to win has to run away from and please do not include the President in your campaign.
A Quicker Cheaper Fence Alternative
Maybe there’s another approach outside a $$ fence we can try by taking off with the Minuteman example (since I’m sure the Nat Guard won’t be stationed on the border this side of this century.) I don’t know how much the fence is per mile and to maintain, but let’s put live trained dedicated volunteers on a state/Fed stipend to patrol the border, say a guy/couple in a jeep or RV with a telescope sweeping a mile or two section of border, with access to radio Customs helicopter backup within fifteen minutes. Any confirmed illegal sightings pops an extra plump reward in your wallet — maybe even win some local property. If you’re caught abetting illegals or drug traffickers it’s automatically twenty years in the can. You can create a lucrative illegals spotting “sport” here, and it’d be welcome income to native residents of border towns and ranches, summer jobs for college students and residents on public assistance, and it’d not only be way cheaper and faster to establish than a fence but pumps bucks into the local economy.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
I think another “campaign style” ad from the Ventilators showing footage of the “invisible”, non-existent fence, interspersed with flashes of the portraits of those senators who double speak on the issue and a voice over mocking them would help spur them along… just a thought.
It always befuddles me how people think that a fence in the middle of nowhere Arizona is going to stop illegal immigration. WIthout Interior Enforcement, you have NOTHING. As a former Border Patrol Agent, I can tell you that they’ll go over, through, under and, most importantly…AROUND you. The nasty little secret that NO ONE will tell you is that all of this mess started in the mid 90’s when former El Paso Border Patrol Sector chief Sylvestre Reyes (Now Congressman Reyes, (D) El Paso) started “Hold the Line”, literally placing BP units within eyesight of one another with one goal…Push the illegals back. A plan mimicked in California with Operation Gatekeeper in San Ysidro and Imperial Beach. Great plan..it worked on the “daily commuters” who would cross over to cut your grass but then return home to Mexico every evening..but where do you all think they eventually went? ARIZONA, where the BP always said that the terrain would be too tough for them to cross through…Now, Arizona is in a state of emergency (thank you, Congressman Reyes) and people don’t realize, when you fence them out, you also fence them in. They don’t want to go home for fear of not being able to return. You HAVE to have interior enforcement. Ask any BP Agent, a virtual fence is fine…spend the BILLIONS to perform Interior enforcement.
4.4 billion dollars………? Where? Oh that’s right. The Dems want it for national health care so we can take care of the illegals crossingn the border. The hell with security.
Not having a fence is a clear and present danger. I’m sure Osama Bin Laden knows this. Border fence? What border Fence?
Anyone else think they’re going to “accidentally” build it on Mexican soil so they’ll have an excuse to tear it down?
We have met the enemy and he is us.
I disagree that a fence won’t work. The
fence on the border that I saw pictures of was maybe 12 feet tall, with a 6 ft or so slated razor wire top, lighting and a road for border patrol vehicles to drive down the middle of the TWO identical fences, motion detectors located near and between the fences…of course it will work. It works at prisons, it works at the Whitehouse, it works in Israel, it works everywhere it’s tried. I agree it needs to run the entire length of the border…….expensive, Yep…but well worth every penny. According to the Heritage Foundation, the cost of amnesty for the 12 million that the Shamnesty bill tried to accomplish would have been a net to the American taxpayer of 2.4 trillion dollars. You can put up a lot of fence for that.
The right kind of fence will absolutely work. It might not stop every single illegal every time…but 95% or so would be fine with me.
I don’t see why anyone would think the right kind of fence couldn’t do the job. I don’t want no virtual fence, I want the real thing.
hmmm…national security!…even i can understand that and the congress? Bought and paid for whores.
I’m all for fencing them out and in, so then the interior enforcement can focus on those who are in, Border Patrol can focus on those trying to get in. Of course you have to have interior enforcement. That does not mean you can’t have a fence to stop the flow in the fist place. Even if it slows things down, say %75 it’s still worth every cent. An effective barrier will make interior enforcement easier after it’s in place. Why do open borders types refuse to admit that?
Another issue is our Northern Border. I don’t think the majority of AQ will waste the effort of sneaking/walking accross our Southern Border when they can travel to Canada from any terrorist country and comfortably drive into the U.S. at any one of the dozens of unmonitored crossings.
I am for the fence on our Southern border, but we must not become fixated on it as the threat is omni-directional.
I also agree with earlier comments that a fence without interior enforcement iworthless.
Note: Locks are made to keep honest people honest. A crook will find a way to defeat the lock.
On July 14th, 2007 at 1:35 pm, Brian72 said: …An effective barrier will make interior enforcement easier after it’s in place. Why do open borders types refuse to admit that?…
If they admit it, they lose. Your comment about 75% is also right. The heart of the “argument” seems to be - THIS won’t work 100%!!, or THAT won’t solve the entire problem!!, or you can’t deport all 20 million at the same time!! It’s childlike and getting older every day…
Until employers face jail time illegals will continue to find jobs - albeit, if not actual then through shady sub-contractors. It’s very difficult to find a major company within the U.S. that doesn’t employ them in some fashion. I’m so disheartened watching every city I’ve loved to live or visit turn into third world toilets. From Los Angeles to Miami there are no-go zones, and we have the nerve to talk about Europe with their, ahem, immigration problems. I’m all for removing tax-free status from any church that encourages or gives sanctuary as well. No religious organization should be in the lucrative business of helping relocate refugees…..that is a recipe for abuse.
Chertoff, build the fence, stop lobbying for comprehensive immigration - it’s not your job, and see a doctor for your intestinal problems.
Who says a fence is without interior enforcement? If you build the fence, what keep you from interior enforcement? NOTHING.
The tandem approach of a fence coupled with interior enforcement makes sense to me. If you have the interior enforcement going in a serious way, it will take pressure off of the border by sending the message that the free ride is over, and sending back the majority of illeagals here.
At the same time, the fence will take pressure off of the interior enforcement activities, obviously by greatly curtailing the flow into the country.
These are not mutually exclusive ideas, but should be persued together as a two pronged strategy. Once this is in motion, the Government can begin to rebuild confidence among Americans that they take this seriously by demonstrating hard results, both at the border and the interior. Then we might be able to reach some “grand bargain” about the 12-20 million already here who are no threat to us and would like to become Americans. I’m not opposed to that, just want it done in a serious way.
Right now, every time someone in the Govt. talks about border security, nobody takes it seriously because it’s apperant from the “shamnesty” debate all they want is the cheap labor express and everything else is empty promises to shut up people who want the border secure. It was a shell game where the shell with amnesty under it is all there was. “We get our amnesty or you get nothing” isn’t very comprehensive in my view.
I agree with Michelle that a good place to start with interior enforcement are the 600,000 illegals who are already under deportation orders and have gone fugitive. These plus the criminal types should go without much more legalities. Employers knowingly hiring illegals can also be cracked down on anytime the Feds decide to do it for real. That’s a good start with interior enforcement.
The fence done for real would aid these efforts tremendously. Isn’t the goal to stop illegal immigration and the smuggling of drugs, people and weapons? What better than a fence, two layers with a patrol road in between, sensors and towers to monitor. It might not stop everyone, but it will deter some, and slow down others, giving an opportunity to catch some in the act of breaching the barrier. This isn’t that complicated, unless you’re in a shell game.
I think we should dig a deep water shipping canal from San Diego all the way to the Gulf of Mexico … just think of the years of jobs that would create … not to mention all of the reduced costs of marine shipping between the east and west coasts of the USA … no need to go all the way to Panama any more … then … a 20 foot fence … inside the fences along both sides of the actual waterway dig a trench 50 feet wide and 50 feet deep … then fill it with whatever you like … rattle snakes, scorpions and the poisonous varieties of gila monster come to mind … who knows … if you filled it with water maybe a few sharks or gators would enjoy themselves there … and just think how much of AlGore’s flooding by GW would be allowed for …
Then take all the dirt from the canals and use it to raise the level of New Orleans so you won’t have to worry about if flooding again solve multiple problems at one whack.
What is it that Congress doesn’t understand about the word ILLEGAL …
How about for each ILLEGAL they arrest and send back we bump the next person on the legal list up so we can replace them with a LEGAL imigrant that has followed the rules and waited their turn and been background checked and all of that.
Just some wandering thoughts.
We have to be careful about a fence on our Northern border.
As the Mexican invasion continues we may need a way to get out.
Just kidding..sorta.
Be careful what you wish for.
Reporter: Mr President, is it true that you have decided to put a fence along the border with Mexico after all? And a follow up question sir, if so what will it look like?
George W. Bush: That is a very good question and yes I have. What will it look like? Well it will run the full length of the border and have special security gates every 100 feet.
All the security gates will have on them:
1) Press one for Spanish (with a response of “Welcome Amigo”).
2) Press two for Arabic (with a response of “Welcome honored member of the Religion of Peace”).
3) Press three for English (with a response of “Go to Hell you damed bigoted nativist who does not want what is right for America!!! And don’t come back!!!”).
You know; when we are once again attacked by terrorist, if BUSHY comes on the air to tell us that we will be vindicated, I will vomit.
Open borders is like welcoming illegals and terrorist alike. How in GOD’S name does he explain that to us?
He swears to PROTECT US, yet gives free will to anyone to come into our country.
He should be impeached. Why even bother with homeland security? What does that mean - we continue to screen elderly women, children, and others ….and for what?
That’s like saying to your child; I’ll punish you if you miss your curfew, but if you do illegal drugs/drink and drive - you get a free pass.
Double Talk.
#12 BOB: All im saying is that people are pinning their hopes on a fence when a fence is just a speed bump to the waves that are coming in, lured by the prospect that once they are in, they can live practically unbothered within the interior. My comments aren’t baseless: I’ve been there. I’ve made the apprehensions and seen people I arrested HOURS earlier back at it…Until you take away the sugar, the flies will keep trying, no matter how many “fences” you put up. Again, I ask any person who thinks that a fence the width of the Southern Border will work: Have you asked a Border Patrol Agent what they think of the effectiveness of that? Most of these fence lovers are making their comments from the comfort of middle America, THOUSANDS of miles away from Mexican soil. As one who DAILY stares into Mexico, I can tell you that a fence will only work in metropolitan areas, like in San Diego, Calexico, and El Paso. Anywhere else is just a feel-good moneypit with false promise. You HAVE to have interior enforcement staring with MASS DEPORTATION of criminal aliens.
Hi CapitalistPig,
Sorry, it doesn’t compute that a fence on the Southern Border wouldn’t at the very least be a big help…free up some agents for other duties and drastically slow the inflow. If wouldn’t stop it 100%, of course, but fences work everywhere they are tried, no reason why they won’t work at the border. I agree that we need interior enforcement and deportation, just not instead of a fence, but in addition to. I don’t disagree with your other ideas, I just don’t believe that a fence would not be a great investment.
Without the fence we will never get enough of the interior enforcement you suggest to make a difference…and it appears there will never be mass deportation. Slowing the inflow seems to be the best we can hope for, and I still haven’t seen a better idea than a fence, except for maybe a “Great Wall”.
You will probably get your wish though, because the fence building is going to be delayed until everybody that wants in has already walked across the border.
Of course it doesn’t compute because its nonsense. Anyone who argues that fences don’t work should have their motives questioned; anyone who argues that folks are calling for a fence only with no other enforcement measure are just making things up.
People who argue against fences do so for one reason: they know they WILL work, and they don’t want that.
Here’s a less costly idea;
Build moats filled with alligators.
That should do the trick.
If the employers don’t swing, it’s got no ring.
If the employers don’t hang, it’s got no bang.
If the employer’s don’t do jail, we won’t hail.
BOB: We may agree more than we disagree… good points..
On July 14th, 2007 at 6:33 pm, gayle said:
Here’s a less costly idea;
Build moats filled with alligators.
That should do the trick.
What self respecting alligator would eat one of those?
LOL! Only one prob with the gators they would eat so much each day ending up the size of aircraft carriers.
OK Gayle you started this, We could call it “Operation Gatoraid”
or…Moatis Operandis”
Why don’t these neo-cons send the troops to defend our borders instead of spending money on some stupid wall Michelle…
On July 14th, 2007 at 8:12 pm, ajmontana said:
OK Gayle you started this, We could call it “Operation Gatoraid”
LOL!
No Kool-Aid as O’Reilly so eloquently states!
GATORADE FOR ALL SPLANISH FOLKS!
I wouldn’t care if the gators got the size of a submarine….then they could handle the terrorist nukes!
SPLAT>>>>SPLAT
Would the Gator Poop be Guacamole?
nope, nukecumbers! haha!
Capitalist Pig is right.
Fencing is appriate and effective for some parts of the border. However, look at what Eisenhower did with Operation Wetback. It worked extremely well and it was cheap. A border wall would be expensive and moderately effective, but at least it would make you all feel like something’s being done.
In any case, the idea of condemning all that private land and fencing people off from their water rights is very scary to people who live and work on the river.
And how do you build a fence down the middle of an 80 mile long reservoir? Or across a canyon that periodically experiences massive flash floods? Do we bulid it across farmland on the levee or build it in the floodplain where a hurricane storm surge can get it? Sure it can be done, but it’s not as easy as you folks up north think it is.
Get a series of detailed topo maps, or go on Google Earth and zoom in real close on all 1951 miles, and try to get a clue about what’s involved here.
This how Eisenhower SOLVED it:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
This is exactly what CapitalistPig is talking about, iinterior enforcement and massive deportations.
We don’t have a prayer of doing today what Eisenhower did in the fifties.
I think we better build the imperfect and expensive, but at least somewhat effective, fence. The alternative is going to be doing nothing.
“Where’s the Fence”
What is the design for the fence that would go down the middle of Amistad Reservoir? Now keep in mind that it has to be 80 miles long, and the water level fluctuates 50 ft up and down.
This is just a technical matter to be sure, but I would just for once like to hear some Yankee come up with an idea for that, or at least acknowledge that there might be a teensy-weensy delay here.
This government isn’t capable of playing a game of jack’s yet alone constructing a fence or enforcing any laws. It’s pathetic, and very very sad.
Hey! They already did that. LOL
Ok, if the reservoir is really big and really deep and all that, then getting across it is going to be a bit harder than just walking into the USA at a lot of other places. If the fence everywhere else forces illegals to attempt to swim this reservoir we can pick them up with a Border Patrol boat and take them back. Unless they are really determined I think they can be persuaded to give up. As has been stated before, there might be areas were methods other than a fence can be used…but that has nothing to do with going ahead and building the fence. Not like it’s going to be built in a few months or anything.
I don’t think the difficulty of building a fence should stop the reality of getting the job done.
I’m glad none of these morons were around when America was actually being built. Places like the Golden Gate Bridge, Hoover Dam, Railroads, etc. never would have been done.
What says the fence must be built on the border? Ya tink may b a yank wood put te fence on te US side at te hi water mark?
Agreed aj.
It doesn’t have to be complicated or difficult like many of the other public works projects our government has completed.
Build the fence where the cross border traffic is most likely. That funnels border attempts to more difficult terrain (like the reservoir) where you can police more heavily with more people.
A fence will work. I lock my door even though I know that thieves can just break the window and get in. A fence keeps my dog out of the street, fences stand around every prison - they work.
Of course, we could just invest in a few land mines that would be cheaper and more environmentally friendly to every animal but humans trying to break the law.
The issue is we have to decide that we want to stop illegal entry into this country. I have a bad feeling that we are fixin to get hit by terrorists somehow, and it wouldn’t surprise me if they got in from Mexico. If I was OBL, or AQ, I’d come right in from Mexico off the radar. I’m sure OBL would rather fight us HERE than Iraq.
Well, I keep calling them on it, and they aren’t amused. I hope I’m not the only one still dialing the phone.
I wonder what it would cost to sub-contract the fence job to the Israelis.
1) BUILD THE FENCE, 2) Fine employers who hire illegals, 3) Round them up and deport them. How hard is that?
Dandapani - “How hard is that?”
How hard is it to get a patriot for a President?
Answer that and you have answered your own question.
Alaska Highway (1422 miles) built in 8 months in 1943.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Highway
If a group of (yes, our Military) who for the most part were not experienced or engineers could accomplish such a feat back then, WHY can we not build a simple fence today?
Rhetorically, he says, because open borders/globalist W does NOT want to and has so instructed his toady lettuce-head Chertoff to go slow or do nothing at all.
The Grand Coulee Dam is almost a mile long. It is taller than the Great Pyramid of Giza; all the pyramids at Giza could fit within its base. It is more than twice as tall as Niagara Falls.
Largest concrete dam in North America, largest concrete structure in the United States with 11,975,521 yd³ (9,155,94 2 m³) of concrete used.
Mathematicians, how high a wall along our southern border would that much concrete build?
News2use, the shoreline of the lake on the US side is 540 miles long. A lot of it is private property, and people don’t want to lose lakefront property.
Let me clear, I think a fence would be useful for some portions, but some people wouldn’t be satisfied with that. They want a solid wall the entire length of the border, and they want it right now, and I understand the frustration. But I think a lot of people envision this as a straight line across flat desert owned by nobody, when it’s anything but that. There are issues of property rights and water rights that will be very messy to solve, and the terrain in some areas is very difficult. One of the original proposed routes puts the fence right through a university. Any of you ever rafted through Santa Elena Canyon or hiked in Boquillas Canyon?
Yes, we CAN technically build anything, Hoover Dam etc etc. I’m just trying to explain to you why, IF it ever gets done, it will take a long, long time to accomplish. Frankly, a solid border-length barrier, especially a concrete one, will never happen because of the economic havoc it would wreak by depriving an entire region of it’s water rights. People won’t stand for it.
Hence, a moat.
With a sign..”Step on green rocks to cross”
A high security fence will work where the potential trespassers and escapees and terrorists are dangerous enough so you can shoot them, but this isn’t practical for plain old Mexicans. About all they would face for breaking down the fences would be the usual free ride back to Mexico. Not to mention there are areas where fence building is impractical, or that if denied the border crossing they can spend a trifle more on coyotes and come up the coast or through Canada.
I would go so far as to say a fence is a total waste of money.
The only practical answer is to put a few businessmen in jail for hiring illegals, but since both parties are pretty much bought by business and corporations, this is far-fetched.
The ‘fence’ is merely a ruse for rubes and another boondoggle for Halliburton.
Fences work. It’s a proven fact. That’s why security fencing is a multi-billion dollar industry! The fence China put up almost overnight on their border with North Korea after sanctions went into effect stopped illegal migration cold as did the Israel fence.
The 40 miles of single fencing put up on the border in San Diego reduced
illegal migration over 90% and as an added bonus crime went down more than 50%.
Let’s stop trying to contradict reality and demand and demand that the government do it’s job.
Fax, phone, email and write our Reps until they get the message and let the fence industry worry about the details of building it, that’s what they’re getting paid for.
On July 14th, 2007 at 10:43 am, CapitalistPig said:
and people don’t realize, when you fence them out, you also fence them in. They don’t want to go home for fear of not being able to return.
duhh, so put in a couple of manned exit portals.
One senator suggested hiring 20 contractors to put in 40 miles of fence each and finishing in less than six months.
There’s an answer to every whine. Lets just do it!
Image: Bear1909 with his lab coat on, with wizard hat jauntily askew, while he
Genetically engineers alligators who can live on land, will eat only Mexicans and piss gasoline.
In short, a species of Gator that would be doing the job most politicians don’t want to do.