Ted Rall is at it again
Unhinged cartoonist Ted Rall is throwing another troop-bashing tantrum. Normally, I would not feed this troll. But I agree with Noel Sheppard that this has to be the worst of the worst. Click for larger image–and make sure you do it on an empty stomach:
Rall is beyond contempt. He has accused our troops of being murderers for Halliburton, mocked soldiers as sexual deviants, and derided the late Pat Tillman as an “idiot” and “sap”. Now, all in one cartoon, he shows his naked contempt for the very traits of the American soldier that helped give birth to this country and secured it for 231 years: willingness to sacrifice, faith, courage, respect for the commander-in-chief, and determination to complete their mission.
Before you dismiss this anti-military hatred as marginal, I remind you that Ted Rall is not the far Left fringe:
In 1996, he was one of three Finalists for the Pulitzer Prize. He was one of the New York Times’ most reprinted cartoonists in 1997, 1999 and 2001. He also did color strips for both Time Magazine and Fortune Magazine from 1998 to 2001. He was awarded the 1998 Deadline Club Award by the Society of Professional Journalists for his cartoons. Rall received first place in both the 1995 and 2000 Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Awards for Cartoons. The award, founded in 1968, recognizes distinguished work on behalf of disadvantaged Americans.
Does anyone on his side of the ideological aisle have the decency to question his patriotism?
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He has as much patriotism as toe jam.
I’m lost for words. Totally at a loss.
What can you say to someone who is completely unable to understand the difference between a soldier and a suicide bomber? How do you even begin to describe the difference to someone so far gone?
That soldiers do not target civilians? That soldiers do not hide behind civilians? That soldiers are held accountable for their actions? These are just things off the top of my head.
However, is there any reason to even engage in dialog with someone so far gone?
I agree with pgtips… what do you say to a person who is ignorant and blind himself to what is going on. Its disgusting to see this kind of blind stupidity just to get noticed.
He forgets when he is pointing his finger at someone there are three pointing right back at him for being uneducated, delusional and immature.
Rena
That cartoon is unbelievable. Cowardly, traitorous, pathetic.
That poor soul needs our prayers.
Proof again that Liberals do not know what the military is about or what the military is for.
I get so sick of this crap. Makes my skin crawl!!!
I’m an old veteran. I doubt I would even attempt to restrain myself in the presence of this creature.
As an OIF vet, I’m deeply offended by the NY Times and Ted Rall. They are truly unhinged. Where’s the outrage?
There was a time when I would have been surprised to see this kind of stuff, but this is now typical fare from the left.
Don’t you dare question their patriotism, though.
Negative…just observe and make a mental note.
Someone send this dork to any area where the military is conducting operations, and lets see how long the scum keep this kind of thinking.
Ted Rall is a whiney, annoying little snot who offers absolutely nothing constructive to the ongoing dialogue about terrorism and radical Islam. From his writings about how he flunked out of the engineering department at Columbia University to his praise of the Chinese and Russians for building roads in Tajikistan while the US does “nothing”, he is the perfect victim for Koko, The Lord High Executioner in Gilbert & Sullivan’s The Mikado. If you will recall, in Koko’s aria “I’ve Got a Little List”, one of the groups of people he has planned to feel the blade of his snickersnee is:
“The idiot who praises with enthusiastic tone, all centuries but this and every country but his own…”
That describes Ted Rall perfectly.
This may be an impossible question to answer, but why is he so anti-military?
Well, aside from the obvious answers, of course.
What is his personal reason to hate the military?
It makes you wonder, if there’s a Military Derangement Syndrom going on, similar to Bush Derangement Syndrome.
democrats support the troops!
This is truly the work of a pathetically ignorant individual. This is nothing new though. The left has always liked to portray us military types as easily led automatons who cannot think for themselves. The thing is I truly feel bad for Ted Rall and others like him who live in what is apparently a cold, lonely, ignorant and hateful existance. The good news is the majority of those in the military will shrug off this cartoon as insignificant and silly. I’ve done mulitple tours in Iraq and Afghanistan and can tell you we pay very little attention to the media. I know captiol hill and cnn like to use us in their politics but we really aren’t demoralized by dumb cartoons and bad politicians saying dumb things. Reason being we know the real truth because we live it.
But in looking at the poll data concerning the war in Iraq it would seem that he speaks for abut 65% of the country. By not standing up you are giving tacit support to the other side.
Yes, I think there is. It wasn’t too pronounced immediately after 9/11, but now that many in this country have all but forgotten those events, it is getting popular to hate the military again. Many libs can’t comprehend what it means to serve in the armed forces. Honor, courage and commitment are absent from their daily lives, so an organization that embraces those principles is viewed with disdain.
You rarely see them insult you in person…it is usually done online or from a safe distance (through media).
Ted Rall is just another of the MSM dung beetles. He gains his sustenance from his comfortable existence in dung. He has admitted to being a BS detector and this is one of the few truthful things he has said.
There is a saying about, “When you’re a hammer, everything looks like nails.” I believe that it’s similar for dung beetles, everything starts looking like…
Does anyone on his side of the ideological aisle have the decency to question his patriotism?
That’s long dead and buried … I question his sanity.
Would LOVE to see Pelosi and Reid’s take on this.
dung beetle …
Say! Hey, I like that!!!
I don’t care what ANYONE says, I WILL question the patriotism, and for that matter, the humanity, not to mention the intelligence, of anyone like this!
There are at least 200 representatives in congress who agree with Ted’s protrayal judging by the recent voting. How many Americans do those representatives represent? 20 million, 50 million? They are on capitol hill to represent so your voice has been heard. Those who elected them have given your approval to have that particular congress critter speak for you.
Me, I have heard enough.
Ted Rall mocks because he is ingorant. One mocks what one does not understand. I like to see him face a Marine, Soldier, Sailor, Airman, he would most likely say “It’s only satire”, then proceed to crawl back under his rock.
Don’t question his patriotism! He’s supporting the troops!
It appears there are no limits to what the people of this country will tolerate. Predictably, Rall will be praised by the various core constituencies of the Democrat party for “speaking truth to power” and the rest of us will stand idly by.
The fact that yet another so-called journalist is allowed to insult members of the armed forces during a time of war in the most vile manner imaginable with impunity makes me question whether there’s anything left in this country worth defending.
If Rall is fired, I’ll rescind my statement. But we all know goddamn well he won’t be - he’ll probably be awarded another Pulitzer.
Rall makes Michael Moore look like John Wayne. Quite frankly the most hateful leftist on the planet.
Because they demonstrate what a pu$$y he is, was and always will be. They remind him of his own inadequacies as a “man”. They remind him of his lack of honor, character and unwillingness to fight for absolutely anything. His way of “standing up” is doodling like a child. He, like nearly every unhinged lefty, is emotionally retarded; he’s stuck in a time and place in his mind where he was rejected by the norm of society and as such feels resentment toward those who (in his mind) forced him to experience normal social development and skills at a later age. It fits with the liberal mindset of blaming everyone else for their problems. Emotionally stable people may have experienced some childhood issues, but they move on when they become an adult. I’d wager 9 out of 10 liberals blame somebody for whatever it is they think they’re lacking. Bush represents the dad who wasn’t home enough, the military represents all of those great looking guys who won sports trophies and got invited to parties and dated cheerleaders. I honestly think that’s where this kind of hysteria comes from. It’s too hateful and personal to just be political. And seriously look at this guy: he’s the guy who sat in the back and doodled because no one spoke to him - and he never got over it. I used to hang out with people like this and in fact I have to go to a party tomorrow being thrown by someone just like this, (I’m totally dreading it but it’s an old activist friend of mine who’s practically stalking me so I feel no way out.)
This man is a sheep. He will cower behind the sheepdog when the wolves are at his door.
But can he draw? No.
To borrow from “A Few Good Men”
You know, I kinda agree with Tom Rall.
I think we should all take this moment to denounce not only our military, but also our President, our Congress, our way of life, and most of all…our Constitution. None of it is worth standing up for.
We should all get in line with Mr Rall and all of his ilk and work hard to destroy these worthless traditions.
At least then, we wouldn’t have to listen to Mr Rall any more, as he would no longer have Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press, Freedom of (or from)Worship, the Right to Vote, or any claim to Life, Liberty, or the Pursuit of Happiness.
‘I support the troops’. How often I hear that, though it is usually followed by ‘but’, or ‘if’, etc..
When I ask people just how they support the troops, I am often given a look of total disdain, hate even.
In your support of the troops, have you donated to the USO, AMVETS, Vet Programs? Have you attended a support rally, a homecoming, etc.. Have you visited Walter Reed, volunteered to help in the rehabilitation of wounded veterans? Have you sent a support package, phone card, greeting, etc.. to our troops in the field?
Just exactly how do you support the troops? Because lip speak only counts if it is in total support/defense of what they do.
Now, I realize that some cannot afford to donate, I also realize that veteran’s center may be far away for others, but for the majority of us, it is simply ‘inconvenient’, or we just don’t have the ‘time’.
I cringe whenever I hear a liberal or dem say “I support the troops’. In my lifetime, the libs and dems have ‘never’ supported the troops. During the Carter years they gave us 1% pay raises while they gave congress 30%+. Carter gutted the military and stated that the military should be an example on cutting back. He and the dems complained and abused us for standing in welfare lines, stating we should ashamed for being there, we should be ashamed for taking support set aside for others, many wanted create laws to prevent us from receiving welfare benefits, when the shameful truth was, because of them ‘we qualified’ to be in those welfare lines.
During the Clinton/Gore years, they gutted the military logistics system and handed the federal govt over to contractors and lawyers. Now it is contractors who deliver our soldiers, food, ammo, equipment, etc.. to the battle fields. We work on thier time schedule not ours. It take three months to deliver 25,000 troops, when military logistics could have delivered them in days. We cannot get a paper out of the building unless a lawyer approves it, they hold up the processes, question the ethics, etc.. they create stopgap issues where none where before, it all increases the time and costs. Who screams the loudest over the costs and delays, dems and libs, the very people who slashed the logistics system, handed the govt over to others, all in an effort to line their own pockets, uh.. I mean to ’save’ us money and make our military less effective.
They support the troops, yeah, right. They support the troops about as much as shia law supports women’s rights.
Michelle, you should get this repulsive toad lined up for a spot on the Factor. Ask him to defend this garbage in the presence of a Fox News military contributor.
Somebody like Col. Bill Cowan(USMC ret.) or Col. Oliver North(USMC ret.) Between you and the Col., Rall would be pummeled by reality.
I don’t think he would go for it, but on the other hand I’ve seen Hannity interview this guy a couple of years ago, when his trashy insult to Pat Tillman was fresh.
He might have learned a lesson from that, but he’s a leftist rabble rouser, and those types will do anything for attention. He might take the bait, and what good TV that would make!
Somebody should stand up for our troops and confront this idiot.
Just a thought.
Ted Rall is that pathetic kid who got picked last for every neighborhood pick-up game he ever played in. Clearly, he had to endure “Okay, we’ll take Fat Shirley and Nose-Pickin Nancy if you guys take Ted.”
Followed by, “No way, we ain’t takin’ Ted. We’ll take Fat Shirley and you guys can have Ted AND Nose-Pickin Nancy!”
American soldiers represent every kick-ass guy who ever made Ted Rall feel like the impotent, pimply-faced loser he is. Don’t feel sorry for our soldiers. They can take it.
Just like on that baseball field a long time ago, Ted Rall simply doesn’t matter. He’s still just taking up space out in left field, hoping like hell one of the big boys doesn’t crack a hard one his way.
He’s not pathetic, he’s pathological. He’s not disgusting, he’s demon possessed. No rational human being with an ounce of reasoning would try to project something like this unless he was evil. He has prostituted himself to a dark side of the spiritual world and the sooner the people of this country realize the spiritual nature of the enemy we face, we will suffer greatly. Yes, his ilk wanted God out of schools, public places, everywhere. Something has to fill that void and a very dark and forboding presence is moving in.
I’ve seen more than enough from the loony anti-war, anti-American left over the past few years, to the point where it takes quite a bit from them to offend me these days. But as someone who recently enlisted for delayed entry into the Air Force, this damn well did it. Absolutely revolting.
In a sane world, Ted Rall wouldn’t be able to get a job flipping burgers. He would be marginalized and treated with contempt by everyone but a hand full of fringe loonies. He certainly wouldn’t have his crap published in any major American newspaper.
I am on his side of the spectrum. Howeer, his venom is focused on the wrong target. It should be focused on the chicken hawk Bush administration and its chicken hawk toadies (MM, Ann Coulter, Sean, Rush). I question all of their patriotism: They who have plenty of money have no problem sending working class Americans off to be killed or maimed to avenge Saddam making George Bush, Sr. look weak.
One more thing: Pat Tillman was an ATHEIST and a reader of Noam Chomsky, sorry not all American heros are “faith based.” Ronald Reagan hardly ever went to church. Ann Coulter’s minister had to Goggle her to know who she was.
This same cartoon could have been written about a Revolutionary War, Civil War or WW II soldier.
If all Americans thought like Teddy here we would never have gained, nor would we ever have been able to defend, the rights that allow a tool like him to publish this kind of crap.
We can pitty the Tedmeister, though. He HAS to believe that U.S. Soldiers are stupid, desperate and brainwashed because his moral retardation excludes him from comprehending the idea of self-sacrifice without corresponding self-gratification. The only explination that he can find for our soldiers selfless bravery is that there must be something wrong with someone who acts in a way that he finds so incomprehensible.
…or he just has penis envy.
…or both.
And the Dems want to shove the “Fairness Doctrine” down OUR throats?
Send for Alex McIlveen.
“I kicked Ted Rall so hard where his balls should be that I tore a tendon”
Ted Rall left out the four panels he’d need for ‘anger,’ the ones depicting me repeatedly punching him in the face. Yet he’d need four more to also show me instead seething, tolerating his sick usage of his free speech, me tossing his cartoon in the garbade, and my use of free speech here to tell him what a scumbag I think he is.
First of all, we know where you stand Mike B so stop pretending you’re “one of us”. Second, I come from a well off, successful family who has been in America pretty much since its inception, nearly every one of us college educated for generations and at least 3 of my relatives, (wealthy! educated!) have served IN IRAQ. I have more who have served in the military, but not overseas so your “chickenhawk” argument doesn’t hold anymore. Our military is all volunteer. No one is “sending them off” to be killed. If any of you libtards actually knew anyone - I mean ANYONE - in the service, you might know that, but as it is you people love to reap the benefits of a country whose freedoms have been preserved by those who actually have the cajones to fight for it. So I turn the argument around: you love to exercise your freedom of speech and press and assembly so much why the hell don’t ANY OF YOU put your money where your mouth is and FIGHT for it?! EVER? You can start by at least saying something NICE about it. That’s rich: the CHICKENS calling others CHICKENHAWKS.
And in case you need a refresher, (because apparantly liberals don’t own or believe in dictionaries - see Babs Streisand as a classic example) this is the definition of “Patriotism”:
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
pa·tri·ot·ism [pey-tree-uh-tiz-uhm or, especially Brit., pa-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
devoted love, support, and defense of one’s country; national loyalty.
[Origin: 1720–30; patriot + -ism]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source
pa·tri·ot·ism (pā’trē-ə-tĭz’əm) Pronunciation Key
n. Love of and devotion to one’s country.
(Download Now or Buy the Book)
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2006 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source
patriotism
noun
love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it; “they rode the same wave of popular patriotism”; “British nationalism was in the air and patriotic sentiments ran high”
Please note that it doesn’t state, “Dissent” nor any of your other made up bumper-sticker libtarded definitions.
WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.
The above was for our buddy, MikeB btw.
Well MikeB, sounds like you need to run for office! There aren’t enough surrender-enablers in the Congress to stop this war yet, so put your money where your big mouth is and run for Congress! Act on your beliefs, show us chickenhawks up Mikey! You have REAL courage to back up your opinions don’t you? You wouldn’t just be spewing nonsense to irritate people here would ya? Stand up for defeat! Follow your heart Mikey! C’mon, chicken I double dog dare you!
I respectfully disagree with Ms. Malkin regarding the significance of Ted Rall. Sure, his comic strip is vile, but he is marginal.
I have an advanced degree and am sophisticated with regards to current events (I do read Ms. Malkin after all.). I am unfamiliar with this fellow.
The fact that he wins Pulitzers would be relevant if Pulitzers themselves were relevant. To me they are like Emmys, Oscars, Grammys, and of course, Nobel Peace Prizes, which most people know are now worthless.
Liberals give each other awards. It is nothing new.
Rather than wait for the left to condemn him, it would be better to hope they do not so that the right can continue to club them upside the head with stuff like this, justifiably so.
If republicans win the White House in 2008, just as in 2004, and just as in most of the last 30 years, Ted Rall will remain an award winning nobody that only his fellow hatemongers will have heard of. Let us leave him in the gutter, an unrecognized has been.
eric
http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
My former career often placed me in a position to hear first hand what the “bi-coastal” elites think about the men and women who serve in our armed forces. They have roughly the same perspective on them as they do on us “hicks” and “hayseeds” in “flyover country”. They hate the military and everything it stands for.
This cartoon is an accurate representation of the beliefs of most leftists, and yes, most who vote Democratic. They believe only in globalism, internationalism, they love only causes and ideologies. They have contempt for the man who loves his country so much that he will defend it, salute it’s flag, and even sacrifice his life for it. They regard him as a simpleton, who just can’t see that HIS god and HIS country are no different then that of the terrorists. They believe that only an uneducated hick could refuse to accept the universal moral equivalency that they espouse.
I only pray that when those men and women come home, they remember. Remember if the time should come when the score needs to be settled.
Here’s the wacko Rall’s email address:
chet@rall.com
Now, all in one cartoon, he shows his naked contempt for the very traits of the American soldier that helped give birth to this country and secured it for 231 years: willingness to sacrifice, faith, courage, respect for the commander-in-chief, and determination to complete their mission.
If our country’s security were to depend on the American soldier having respect for the current commander-in-chief - then we wound be SCREWED!
The only Ted’s that I can think of that I have more contempt for than Ted Rall are Ted Kennedy and Ted Nugent.
To all my friends on this site: As I have posted before, I do have a close relative in the military, my first cousin Gene who is in Anbar now. He is patriotic and a liberal (as was Pat Tillman and George McGovern, a much decorated pilot in WWII). My cousin is outraged by the prison abuses and by right wingers who defend it.
I am frankly tired of conservatives believing they have a monopoly on patriotism or faith or honor or anything else. You don’t.
Yes, there are some old families who enroll in the military and that is a sacred tradition, which I respect. But, by and large, you all must admit that most troops in Iraq and Afghanistan are not from wealthy families.
The Bushies, Cheneys, Malkins, Hannitys, Limbaughs, and Coulters, et al. are sending no one to fight (much less going themselves). They know nothing about the commitment our troops are making. If they did, they would join the majority of Americans (and now a growing number of Republican Senators) in calling to end this disaster in Iraq NOW!
Rall is trash, as are the people who read & believe in him.
Nothing further need be said about him or them.
Needy! Very ,very needy person. Attention getting behavior.
Interesting MikeB in #51. As a “sidebar” though please document that Pat Tillman was a liberal.
Yeah, &!%# anyone that believes in the Second Amendment. In case you can’t tell, that was sarcasm.
Any real reason why you feel the need to attack Ted Nugent?
Can’t argue with the Kennedy remark though….
LC - “Any real reason why you feel the need to attack Ted Nugent?”
The reason that I hold Ted Nugent in such contempt has nothing whatsoever to do with the second amendment.
Speaking of Ted Kennedy that reminds me of a strange E-mail that I somehow received some time ago.
Hi there fellow bloggers. My name is United States Senator Edward Moore Kennedy from the Great State of Massachusetts. You can call me Ted if you want. I was born on February 22, 1932, although people tell me that I look at least 20 years younger.
I graduated from Harvard in June 1956 in the top 10% of my class. I also passed my law bar on my very first try.
I am one of the most senior members of that grand and much loved and respected institution known as the U.S. Senate. All my colleagues respect me and very often come to me for my wise council and advise. I must admit though that when John and Lindsey ask me to turn around and pull my pants down so that they can kiss my ass it does get a little much, but it’s gratifying anyway!
In fact I am so powerful now that I am, in many ways the defacto President of the United States. How’s that for a boy who had to work his way through college?
I am handsome and tall with a muscular build. The ladies just can’t get enough of me. Sometimes I think it is almost a curse.
I sometimes like to chill out after a long day of serving the American people by having a double martini. Contrary to what some of my very few enemies say I never have more than one drink at a time. Well sometimes one for each hand, but that’s it, never two glasses in each hand, except on special occasions like the arrival of 7PM.
I am a lot of fun after work. I am an excellent driver and sometimes I like to go on long drives and see how many bridges I can cross without getting wet. It’s a lot of fun! All the women tell me that I am just too much!
I would like to think that I am open minded, honest, polite, and trustworthy. And I appreciate the same qualities in others.
Who I’d like to meet:
…other progressive bloggers. People who like to rock out. Cool people who live close to Washington D.C. so that we can get together, take all our clothes off, paint 666 on ourselves, and run around stark naked and have a whole lot of fun.
Your friend. Ted
As the daughter and granddaughter of nationally acclaimed editorial cartoonists, this strikes me painfully right in the gut. I cannot comprehend anyone so willing to bastardize God-given talent to trash our troops, our values, our freedoms (especially Freedom of the Press!) and our leaders. I almost hope that one day he will be personally confronted with the havoc he wreaks, when he finds that he has sold out his own country along with his soul.
Wow…you make Rall look like a rational human being.
Why are you still here?
The reason that al queda and the other Islamic terrorists have hope is guys like Ralls. And, thanks to him, there will be more terrorist attacks. Ralls symbolizes perfectly the appeasement crowd that led the world in the 1930s. If you want to see just how cowardly and stupid these people were then, you can read The Gathering Storm by Churchill. (Notably, the Freshman class of Oxford and Cambridge signed a pledge never to go to war in defense of their nation. This led Hitler to think that England would not fight. Of course, many of these over educated members of the intelligencia fought and died for national survival just a few years later in something called WW-II.)
NoSubmission of LGF shared this response by Cox and Forkum to Ralls. A deranged child.
http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/BeingTedRall.gif
On July 14th, 2007 at 12:55 pm, Brian72 said:
Michelle, you should get this repulsive toad lined up for a spot on the Factor. Ask him to defend this garbage in the presence of a Fox News military contributor.
Somebody like Col. Bill Cowan(USMC ret.) or Col. Oliver North(USMC ret.) Between you and the Col., Rall would be pummeled by reality.
I don’t think he would go for it, but on the other hand I’ve seen Hannity interview this guy a couple of years ago, when his trashy insult to Pat Tillman was fresh.
He might have learned a lesson from that, but he’s a leftist rabble rouser, and those types will do anything for attention. He might take the bait, and what good TV that would make!
Somebody should stand up for our troops and confront this idiot.
Just a thought.
Brian72 you forgot one Col. I would have on with Michelle too is Col. David Hunt (US Army ret.). I like the way he thinks, OOOHRAH! I loved his book “They just don’t get it”.
ChickenHawk talk. Hahahaha. Read the Constitution sometime. If you can.
SANDDOG
This guy couldn’t get a job flipping burgers because the illegals already have all of those jobs filled … that’s why he has to put out such trash … I have grandkids that are better artists than this clown … he isn’t worthy of the spit on the boots of our military personnel …
JUST A GRUNT
Great quote from A Few Good Men but another fits all of these folks as well … since they are all in denial …
Also … about that 65% of those polled the libs love to talk about … I am over 60 and have never been contacted on a poll in my life … I personally think polls are a waste of time and meaningless … just like all the award shows they have these days …
As for the animosity toward the military from the left …
They’ll never admit the rights they have are because of the military sacrifices that have been made … so I have a suggestion that they should all like that comes from one of their own on this matter …
Let’s all back Charlie Rangel when he talks about “bring back the draft” … and then let’s see what they think once they have actually had to be a true American defending this country and those rights they enjoy flaunting so much …
Frankly I do not see too much wrong with the excerpt presented from MikeB in comment #59.
I would however exempt the ladies, Michelle and Ann, as women can not be chickhawks.
Besides they both have way too many virtues to call them names.
I also do NOT think that George II is doing this for his dad. His dad was much too smart to get into a fluster cuck like this.
puhiawa - “ChickenHawk talk. Hahahaha. Read the Constitution sometime. If you can.
I could be mistaken I suppose, but I do not believe that the U.S. Constitution explicitly of implicitly prohibits the use of the chickenhawk description.
Maybe someday there will be a Supreme Court interpretation to that effect or possibly another amendment to the Constitution.
Till then … … …
Feralcat here is proof:
FAMILY DEMANDS THE TRUTH
New inquiry may expose events that led to Pat Tillman’s death
Robert Collier, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, September 25, 2005
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More… The battle between a grieving family and the U.S. military justice system is on display in thousands of pages of documents strewn across Mary Tillman’s dining room table in suburban San Jose.
As she pores through testimony from three previous Army investigations into the killing of her son, former football star Pat Tillman, by his fellow Army Rangers last year in Afghanistan, she hopes that a new inquiry launched in August by the Pentagon’s inspector general finally will answer the family’s questions:
Were witnesses allowed to change their testimony on key details, as alleged by one investigator? Why did internal documents on the case, such as the initial casualty report, include false information? When did top Pentagon officials know that Tillman’s death was caused by friendly fire, and why did they delay for five weeks before informing his family?
“There have been so many discrepancies so far that it’s hard to know what to believe,” Mary Tillman said. “There are too many murky details.” The files the family received from the Army in March are heavily censored, with nearly every page containing blacked-out sections; most names have been deleted. (Names for this story were provided by sources close to the investigation.) At least one volume was withheld altogether from the family, and even an Army press release given to the media has deletions. On her copies, Mary Tillman has added competing marks and scrawls — countless color-coded tabs and angry notes such as “Contradiction!” “Wrong!” and “????”
A Chronicle review of more than 2,000 pages of testimony, as well as interviews with Pat Tillman’s family members and soldiers who served with him, found contradictions, inaccuracies and what appears to be the military’s attempt at self-protection.
For example, the documents contain testimony of the first investigating officer alleging that Army officials allowed witnesses to change key details in their sworn statements so his finding that certain soldiers committed “gross negligence” could be softened.
Interviews also show a side of Pat Tillman not widely known — a fiercely independent thinker who enlisted, fought and died in service to his country yet was critical of President Bush and opposed the war in Iraq, where he served a tour of duty. He was an avid reader whose interests ranged from history books on World War II and Winston Churchill to works of leftist Noam Chomsky, a favorite author.
Unlike Cindy Sheehan — who has protested against President Bush because of the death of her son Casey in combat in Baghdad — Mary Tillman, 49, who teaches in a San Jose public junior high school, and her ex-husband, Patrick Tillman, 50, a San Jose lawyer, have avoided association with the anti-war movement. Their main public allies are Sen. John McCain, RAriz., and Rep. Mike Honda, D-San Jose, who have lobbied on their behalf. Yet the case has high stakes because of Pat Tillman’s status as an all-American hero.
A football star at Leland High School in San Jose and at Arizona State University, Tillman was chosen Pac-10 defensive player of the year in 1997 and selected by the Arizona Cardinals in the NFL draft the following spring.
He earned a bachelor’s degree in marketing from Arizona State and graduated summa cum laude in 3 1/2 years with a 3.84 grade point average. Ever the student, Tillman not only memorized the playbook by the time he reported for the Cardinals’ rookie camp but pointed out errors in it. He then worked on a master’s degree in history while playing professional football.
His 224 tackles in a single season (2000) are a team record, and because of team loyalty he rejected a five year, $9 million offer from the St. Louis Rams for a one-year, $512,000 contract to stay with Arizona the next year.
Moved in part by the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Tillman decided to give up his career, saying he wanted to fight al Qaeda and help find Osama bin Laden. He spurned the Cardinals’ offer of a three year, $3.6 million contract extension and joined the Army in June 2002 along with his brother Kevin, who was playing minor-league baseball for the Cleveland Indians organization.
Pat Tillman’s enlistment grabbed the attention of the nation — and the highest levels of the Bush administration. A personal letter from Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, thanking him for serving his country, now resides in a storage box, put away by Pat’s widow, Marie.
Instead of going to Afghanistan, as the brothers expected, their Ranger battalion was sent to participate in the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The Tillmans saw combat several times on their way to Baghdad. In early 2004, they finally were assigned to Afghanistan.
Although the Rangers are an elite combat group, the investigative documents reveal that the conduct of the Tillmans’ detachment — A Company, 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment — appeared to be anything but expert as it advanced through a remote canyon in eastern Afghanistan on April 22, 2004, on a mission to search for Taliban and al Qaeda fighters in a village called Manah.
According to the files, when one of the humvees became disabled, thus stalling the mission, commanding officers split Tillman’s platoon in two so one half could move on and the other could arrange transport for the disabled vehicle. Platoon leader Lt. David Uthlaut protested the move as dangerous, but he was overruled. The first group was ordered out in the late afternoon, with Pat Tillman in the forward unit. Kevin’s unit followed 15 to 20 minutes later, hauling the humvee on an Afghan-owned flatbed truck. Both groups temporarily lost radio and visual contact with each other in the deep canyon, and the second group came under attack from suspected Taliban fighters on the surrounding ridges.
Pat Tillman, according to testimony, climbed a hill with another soldier and an Afghan militiaman, intending to attack the enemy. He offered to remove his 28-pound body armor so he could move more quickly, but was ordered not to. Meanwhile, the lead vehicle in the platoon’s second group arrived near Tillman’s position about 65 meters away and mistook the group as enemy. The Afghan stood and fired above the second group at the suspected enemy on the opposite ridge. Although the driver of the second group’s lead vehicle, according to his testimony, recognized Tillman’s group as “friendlies” and tried to signal others in his vehicle not to shoot, they directed fire toward the Afghan and began shooting wildly, without first identifying their target, and also shot at a village on the ridgeline.
The Afghan was killed. According to testimony, Tillman, who along with others on the hill waved his arms and yelled “cease fire,” set off a smoke grenade to identify his group as fellow soldiers. There was a momentary lull in the firing, and he and the soldier next to him, thinking themselves safe, relaxed, stood up and started talking. But the shooting resumed. Tillman was hit in the wrist with shrapnel and in his body armor with numerous bullets.
The soldier next to him testified: “I could hear the pain in his voice as he called out, ‘Cease fire, friendlies, I am Pat f—ing Tillman, dammit.” He said this over and over until he stopped,” having been hit by three bullets in the forehead, killing him.
The soldier continued, “I then looked over at my side to see a river of blood coming down from where he was … I saw his head was gone.” Two other Rangers elsewhere on the mountainside were injured by shrapnel.
Kevin was unaware that his brother had been killed until nearly an hour later when he asked if anyone had seen Pat and a fellow soldier told him.
Tillman’s death came at a sensitive time for the Bush administration — just a week before the Army’s abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib in Iraq became public and sparked a huge scandal. The Pentagon immediately announced that Tillman had died heroically in combat with the enemy, and President Bush hailed him as “an inspiration on and off the football field, as with all who made the ultimate sacrifice in the war on terror.”
His killing was widely reported by the media, including conservative commentators such as Ann Coulter, who called him “an American original — virtuous, pure and masculine like only an American male can be.” His May 3, 2004, memorial in San Jose drew 3,500 people and was nationally televised.
Not until five weeks later, as Tillman’s battalion was returning home, did officials inform the public and the Tillman family that he had been killed by his fellow soldiers.
According to testimony, the first investigation was initiated less than 24 hours after Tillman’s death by an officer in the same Ranger battalion. His report, delivered May 4, 2004, determined that soldiers involved in the incident had committed “gross negligence” and should be appropriately disciplined. The officer became a key witness in the subsequent investigation. For reasons that are not clear, the officer’s investigation was taken over by a higher ranking commander. That officer’s findings, delivered the next month, called for less severe discipline.
The parents, protesting that many questions were left unanswered, found a sympathetic ear in McCain, who Mary Tillman later said was greatly admired by her son. Tillman was well known in Arizona because of his success there as a college and pro football player. McCain began to press the Pentagon on the family’s behalf, and a third probe finally was authorized. Its report was delivered in January.
The military is saying little publicly about the Tillman case. Most Army personnel who were involved in the Tillman incident or the investigations declined to comment publicly when contacted by The Chronicle. The inspector general’s press office also declined to comment, saying only that the new probe is openended.
Over the coming weeks, Pentagon investigators are scheduled to carry out new interviews with many of the soldiers, officers and others involved in the incident. As they carry out their reassessment, potentially controversial points include:
– Conflicting testimony. In his Nov. 14, 2004, interrogation, the first investigator expressed frustration with “watching some of these guys getting off, what I thought … was a lesser of a punishment than what they should’ve received. And I will tell you, over a period of time … the stories have changed. They have changed to, I think, help some individuals.”
The investigator testified that after he submitted his report on May 3, higher-ranking officers permitted soldiers to change key details of their testimony in order to prevent any individual from being singled out for punishment.
“They had the entire chain of command (inaudible) that were involved, the [deleted], all sticking up for [deleted] … And the reason the [deleted] called me in … because the [deleted] … changed their story in how things occurred and the timing and the distance in an attempt to stick up for their counterpart, implied, insinuated that the report wasn’t as accurate as I submitted it …” the first investigator testified.
In another section of his testimony, he said witnesses changed details regarding “the distance, the time, the location and the positioning” in Tillman’s killing.
Another disputed detail was whether the soldiers were firing while speeding down the canyon or whether they stopped, got out and continued shooting. In testimony in the third investigation, the soldiers said they did not stop. However, the medical examiner’s report said Tillman was killed by three bullets closely spaced in his forehead — a pattern that would have been unlikely if the shooter were moving fast. Spc. Russell Baer, a soldier pinned down by gunfire on the hillside near Tillman, said in an interview with The Chronicle that at least two soldiers had gotten out of the humvee to fire uphill. One other soldier confirmed this account to a Tillman family member.
One soldier dismissed by the Rangers for his actions in the incident submitted a statement in the third investigation that suggests the probe was incomplete: “The investigation does not truly set to rest the events of the evening of 22 April 2004. There is critical information not included or misinterpreted in it that could shed some light on who is really at fault for this,” he wrote.
– Commanders’ accountability. According to the documents and interviews, Capt. William Saunders, to whom platoon leader Uthlaut had protested splitting his troops, was allowed to change his testimony over a crucial detail — whether he had reported Uthlaut’s dissent to a higher ranking commander. In initial questioning, Saunders said he had done so, but when that apparently was contradicted by that commander’s testimony, Saunders was threatened with perjury charges. He was given immunity and allowed to change his prior testimony.
The regiment’s commander, Lt. Col. Jeffrey Bailey, was promoted to colonel two months after the incident, and Saunders, who a source said received a reprimand, later was given authority to determine the punishment of those below him. He gave administrative reprimands to six soldiers, including Uthlaut, who had been seriously wounded in the face by shrapnel in the incident. Uthlaut — who was first captain of his senior class at West Point, the academy’s highest honor — was dismissed from the Rangers and re-entered the regular Army.
“It seems grossly inappropriate that Saunders would determine punishment for the others when he shares responsibility for the debacle,” Mary Tillman said.
Baer told The Chronicle that commanding officers were to blame for the friendly fire because they split the platoon and ordered it to leave a secure location in favor of a region known as a Taliban stronghold.
“It was dumb to send us out during daylight,” said Baer, who was honorably discharged from the Rangers earlier this year and lives in the East Bay.
“It’s a well-known military doctrine that privates first learn going through basic training — if you are in enemy territory and you are stopped for a prolonged period of time, the best thing to do is to wait until nightfall. Why they thought that moving us out in broad daylight from our position, dragging a busted humvee slowly through a known hotspot after we had been stranded there all day was a good idea will forever elude me. Who made that decision? Bailey? Saunders? That’s what I want to know.”
– Inaccurate information. While the military code gives clear guidance for informing family members upon a soldier’s death when cases are suspected of being a result of friendly fire, that procedure was not followed in the Tillman case. After Tillman’s death, the Army gave conflicting and incorrect descriptions of the events.
On April 22, the family was told that Tillman was hit with enemy fire getting out of a vehicle and died an hour later at a field hospital.
Although there was ample testimony that Tillman died immediately, an Army report — dated April 22, 2004, from the field hospital in Salerno, Afghanistan, where his body was taken — suggested otherwise. While it stated that he had no blood pressure or pulse “on arrival,” it stated that cardio pulmonary resuscitation had been conducted and that he was transferred to the intensive care unit for further CPR.
On April 23, all top Ranger commanders were told of the suspected fratricide. That same day, an Army press release said he was killed “when his patrol vehicle came under attack.”
On April 29, four days before Tillman’s memorial, Gen. John Abizaid, chief of U.S. Central Command, and other top commanders were told of the fratricide. It is not known if Abizaid reported the news to Washington. Mary Tillman believes that with her son’s high profile, and the fact that Rumsfeld sent him a personal letter, the word quickly reached the defense secretary. “If Pat was on Rumsfeld’s radar, it’s pretty likely that he would have been informed right away after he was killed,” she said. White House, Pentagon and Army spokesmen all said they had no information on when Bush or Rumsfeld were informed.
On April 30, the Army awarded Tillman a Silver Star medal for bravery, saying that “through the firing Tillman’s voice was heard issuing fire commands to take the fight to the enemy on the dominating high ground.”
On May 2, the acting Army Secretary Les Brownlee was told of the fratricide.
On May 7, the Army’s official casualty report stated incorrectly that Tillman was killed by “enemy forces” and “died in a medical treatment facility.”
On May 28, the Army finally admitted to Tillman’s family that he had been killed by friendly fire.
“The administration clearly was using this case for its own political reasons,” said the father, Patrick Tillman. “This cover-up started within minutes of Pat’s death, and it started at high levels. This is not something that (lower-ranking) people in the field do,” he said.
The files show that many of the soldiers questioned in the inquiry said it was common knowledge that the incident involved friendly fire.
A soldier who on April 23 burned Tillman’s bullet riddled body armor — which would have been evidence in a friendly-fire investigation — testified that he did so because there was no doubt it was friendly fire that killed Tillman. Two days later, Tillman’s uniform and vest also were burned because they were soaked in blood and considered a biohazard. Tillman’s uniform also was burned.
The officer who led the first investigation testified that when he was given responsibility for the probe the morning after Tillman’s death, he was informed that the cause was “potential fratricide.’’
After they received the friendly-fire notification May 28, the Tillmans began a public campaign seeking more information. But it was only when the Tillmans began angrily accusing the Pentagon of a coverup, in June 2005, that the Army apologized for the delay, issuing a statement blaming “procedural misjudgments and mistakes.”
– Legal liability. In testimony on Nov. 14, the officer who conducted the first investigation said that he thought some Rangers could have been charged with “criminal intent,” and that some Rangers committed “gross negligence.” The legal difference between the two terms is roughly similar to the distinction between murder and involuntary manslaughter.
The Tillmans demand that all avenues of inquiry remain open.
“I want to know what kind of criminal intent there was,” Mary Tillman said. “There’s so much in the reports that is (deleted) that it’s hard to tell what we’re not seeing.”
In Congress, pressure is building for a full public disclosure of what happened. “I am committed to continuing my work with the Tillman family to ensure that their concerns are being addressed,” said Rep. Honda. He added that he expects the investigation to do the following: “1) provide all factual evidence about the events of April 22, 2004; 2) identify the command decisions that contributed to Pat Tillman’s death; 3) explain why the Army took so long to reveal fratricide as the cause of Pat Tillman’s death; and 4) offer all necessary recommendations for improved procedures relating to such incidents.”
Patrick Tillman drily called the new Army probe “the latest, greatest investigation.” He added, “In Washington, I don’t think any of them want it investigated. They (politicians and Army officials) just don’t want to see it ended with them, landing on their desk so they get blamed for the cover-up.” The January 2005 investigation concluded that there was no coverup.
Throughout the controversy, the Tillman family has been reluctant to cause a media stir. Mary noted that Pat shunned publicity, refusing all public comment when he enlisted and asking the Army to reject all media requests for interviews while he was in service. Pat’s widow, Marie, and his brother Kevin have not become publicly involved in the case, and they declined to comment for this article.
Yet other Tillman family members are less reluctant to show Tillman’s unique character, which was more complex than the public image of a gung-ho patriotic warrior. He started keeping a journal at 16 and continued the practice on the battlefield, writing in it regularly. (His journal was lost immediately after his death.) Mary Tillman said a friend of Pat’s even arranged a private meeting with Chomsky, the antiwar author, to take place after his return from Afghanistan — a meeting prevented by his death. She said that although he supported the Afghan war, believing it justified by the Sept. 11 attacks, “Pat was very critical of the whole Iraq war.”
Baer, who served with Tillman for more than a year in Iraq and Afghanistan, told one anecdote that took place during the March 2003 invasion as the Rangers moved up through southern Iraq.
“I can see it like a movie screen,” Baer said. “We were outside of (a city in southern Iraq) watching as bombs were dropping on the town. We were at an old air base, me, Kevin and Pat, we weren’t in the fight right then. We were talking. And Pat said, ‘You know, this war is so f— illegal.’ And we all said, ‘Yeah.’ That’s who he was. He totally was against Bush.”
Another soldier in the platoon, who asked not to be identified, said Pat urged him to vote for Bush’s Democratic opponent in the 2004 election, Sen. John Kerry.
Senior Chief Petty Officer Stephen White — a Navy SEAL who served with Pat and Kevin for four months in Iraq and was the only military member to speak at Tillman’s memorial — said Pat “wasn’t very fired up about being in Iraq” and instead wanted to go fight al Qaeda in Afghanistan. He said both Pat and Kevin (who has a degree in philosophy) “were amazingly well-read individuals … very firm in some of their beliefs, their political and religious or not so religious beliefs.”
Baer recalled that Tillman encouraged him in his ambitions as an amateur poet. “I would read him my poems, and we would talk about them,” Baer said. “He helped me grow as an individual.”
Tillman subscribed to the Economist magazine, and a fellow soldier said Tillman created a makeshift base library of classic novels so his platoon mates would have literature to read in their down time. He even brought gourmet coffee to brew for his platoon in the field in Afghanistan.
Baer said Tillman was popular among his fellow soldiers and had no enemies. “The guys who killed Pat were his biggest fans,” he said. “They were really wrecked afterward.” He called Tillman “this amazing positive force who really brought our whole platoon together.
He had this great energy. Everybody loved him.” His former comrades and family recall Tillman as a born leader yet remarkably humble. White, the Navy SEAL, recalls one day when “some 19-year-old Ranger came and ordered him to cut an acre of grass.
And Pat just did it, he cut that grass, he didn’t complain. He could have taken millions of dollars playing football, but instead he was just taking orders like that.”
Mary Tillman says that’s how Pat would have wanted to be remembered, as an individual, not as a stock figure or political prop. But she also believes “Pat was a real hero, not what they used him as.”
For the moment, all that is left are the memories and the thick binders spread across Mary Tillman’s dining room table in San Jose. As she waits for the Pentagon investigators to finish their new probe, she wonders whether they will ask the hard questions. Like other family members, “I just want accountability,” she said. “I want answers.”
——————————————————————————–
‘IT’S HARD TO KNOW WHAT TO BELIEVE’
That’s the lament of Mary Tillman, above, a teacher of special education in a San Jose public school. She has long pressed the Army to reopen its investigation into the friendly-fire killing of her son, Pat Tillman, in a canyon in Afghanistan on April 22, . The persistence of Mary Tillman and her former husband, Patrick Tillman, was rewarded when the Pentagon’s inspector general opened a new inquiry in August, the fourth such probe. Mary Tillman says she hopes questions created by discrepancies in past testimony will finally be answered.
——————————————————————————–
MikeB, you came very close to overloading the storage capacity of the internet. I can almost see the Drudge headline now.
“What Al Gore hath created, MikeB hath destroyed - developing”.
MikeB, if I were to read all that I would not have time to cut the grass today or probably even tomorrow. Could you just give they main points, in something less than a gazillion words. Say 200 words or less.
Well, Feral we’re in a paperless world, hopefully. Thanks for your support on this issue.
Environmental catastrophe in making as half the worlds forests disappear to print out MikeB’s internet comments - developing.
To those who like to bring up the chickenhawk argument:
Would you prefer civilian control be removed from the military?
So Mike B what’s your point? Blue on blue incidents happen in combat. Mistakes happen in combat. This has been true since man first threw rocks at each other. It’s tragic but it happens. Real life isn’t a video game, you don’t get a reset button or a save point. Fighting men live with certain truths. War sucks. Death sucks. Brain matter is hard to clean out of the cracks. Unlike past wars we get our laundry thrown out onto the streets like no others before us, good or bad. None of this is new. If libs took the time to study their history, the brutality of this war is nothing compared to conflicts past, including the “torture” inflicted on the enemy by US troops. This is nothing folks. What was done to the folks at Abu Ghraib is a joke and everyone knows it. So poor abu was scared by a dog. Big freakin deal. We have a country of freakin pansies who make me want to puke.
Gator70,
As far as I can tell his points seem to be:
1. Ted Rall focused his “venom” on the wrong target.
2. Those who haven’t served in the military have no business being in favor of this military action. In other words, the only people who can order the military to do something should be those who have served, or the military itself.
3. Pat Tillman was an atheist
4. Ronald Reagan rarely went to church (implying that he didn’t base things on faith; I would suggest MikeB take quite a bit more time to read President Reagan’s words).
Mike B - I just don’t believe that any of your liberal relatives are in the military. If he is and he doesn’t believe in what he’s doing there, then I guess I am worried about who we’re letting into the military these days. But I have yet to meet a soldier regardless of political leaning who has been to Iraq and said, “We’re in a mess and we need to get out as soon as possible.” As for you and feralcat’s Chickenhawk remarks, I do find that ironic at the very least. It’s always those who would never fight for this country in any way who use that term against others to defend their own lack of honor/bravery/willingness to do anything for their country. At least Hannity and Rush are fighting in another way - giving our troops morale and support and spreading the good news stories that are happening there. WTF are you 2 doing besides posting on a message board and supporting a POS who has nothing better to contribute than some 3rd grade cartoon designed to make our country look like the evil doers and our military look like mindless savages? You can’t call Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin chicken because they risk their lives sometimes just going to speak at colleges where they’ve been threatened and/or attacked. And that happens regularly to conservatives. That’s what your side thinks of free speech. Has anyone attacked Ted Rall or that big POS tubba lard Michael Moore, even? I know, Mike B you and Ted Rall types want to believe that in some way the military is beneath your sort (they’re poorer than us, they’re dumber and less educated than us, blah blah blah) - it’s the opposite, but tell yourself whatever you need to so that you can feel good about your own failings.
Lol 3 & 4!! I was thinking the same thing.
RyanInSanJose - “To those who like to bring up the chickenhawk argument:
Would you prefer civilian control be removed from the military?
I would certainly prefer better civilians controlling the military.
I’m all about checks and balances, problem is, there are two many people running for office who just don’t understand what they are getting into. But we all know that, I’m just sayin.
Nothing to see here - move along, folks.
foxforce91 - But I have yet to meet a soldier regardless of political leaning who has been to Iraq and said, “We’re in a mess and we need to get out as soon as possible.”
I have. Remember that old saying that 90% of the Iceburg is under water.
As for you and feralcat’s Chickenhawk remarks, I do find that ironic at the very least. It’s always those who would never fight for this country in any way who use that term against others to defend their own lack of honor/bravery/willingness to do anything for their country.
You have ABSOLUTELY no idea what you are talking about. Short version: I volunteered for the draft. I was in RVN. PMOS = 1193. Where were you of so much honor/bravery/willingness?
At least Hannity and Rush are fighting in another way - giving our troops morale and support and spreading the good news stories that are happening there.
ROFLMAO!!!
“WTF are you 2 doing besides posting on a message board and supporting a POS who has nothing better to contribute than some 3rd grade cartoon designed to make our country look like the evil doers and our military look like mindless savages?
Where did I say anything in support of Ted Rall ??? See my comment #50 where I said, “The only Ted’s that I can think of that I have more contempt for than Ted Rall are Ted Kennedy and Ted Nugent.”
“You can’t call Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin chicken because they risk their lives sometimes just going to speak at colleges where they’ve been threatened and/or attacked. And that happens regularly to conservatives.”
I did NOT call Ann Coulter or Michelle Malkin chicken. See my comment #65
That’s what your side thinks of free speech. Has anyone attacked Ted Rall or that big POS tubba lard Michael Moore, even?
“your side” ??? Yet again see my comment #50 where I said, “The only Ted’s that I can think of that I have more contempt for than Ted Rall are Ted Kennedy and Ted Nugent.”
I know, Mike B you and Ted Rall types want to believe that in some way the military is beneath your sort (they’re poorer than us, they’re dumber and less educated than us, blah blah blah) - it’s the opposite, but tell yourself whatever you need to so that you can feel good about your own failings.
HELLO!!! I was in the military!!! I have two dd214’s. But tell yourself whatever you need to so that you can feel good about your own failings
You know it is absolutely astounding to me that those who do not support Bush’s tarbaby Iraq can be called all manner of epitaphs, but NO ONE is suppose to even hint at the “Chickenhawk” word even for those who NEVER served at all and yet beat the war drums the LOUDEST. Absolutely astonding.
Army Job Descriptions/Vietnam Era Military MOS’s
As a Vietman era Marine all I can
say is this is what you get after 40-50
years of a public education system that
denies history and teaches conflict
resolution instead of reality. The World
is filled with wanabee Hitlers, and Maos
who but for the grace of God never reach
a position of power but when one does
there conflict resolution will not be
of much use. Semper Fi
A new species. Here is fungus with drawing talent.
Ted Rall is a little wimp that hides behind his little cartoons. He would never have the guts to say these things to some bodies face.
I am in a small farm town in Ohio, and we just lost our first soldier Sgt. Kevin Kline. He is being shown as we speak at the high school. I would love for Mr. Rall to come here and say these things to the family and friends of a true American Hero Sgt. Kline. Mr. Rall wouldn’t be upright very long.
One of the last letters Sgt Kline wrote to his Grandma he told her he knew what he was fighting for and he thought it was a worthy cause. He also knew he might be killed, and he told her if he was killed it would not be in vain. Mr. Rall doesn’t understand this way of thinking, he would never give up his self for anybody else. He is just a small little coward.
The next time jihad comes to the states, I hope Mr. Rall is one of the first to go. He is not worthy of life.
Liberalism is a disease, and the only cure is death.
I just read over at LGF a poster say Rall’s mother was French … and she raised him, as a single parent, that everything about America is wrong …
`nuff said.
Michelle, help!
New rules desperately needed here:
No posts over xxxx characters!
Use links, do not post entire web page in text!
One of the great things about America is the ability to act like an idiot. The very things that give Mr Rall the ability and “right” to disparage the very people who guarantee those freedoms are the very thing that our country is about.
I disagree with him and find his work despicable. Once again I’m reminded of his name. Another reason I’ll not ,ever, be a subscriber of the NYT.
Mr Rall DIAF.
“Britain’s most senior generals have issued a blunt warning to Downing Street that the military campaign in Afghanistan is facing a catastrophic failure, a development that could lead to an Islamist government seizing power in neighboring Pakistan.
Amid fears that London and Washington are taking their eye off Afghanistan as they grapple with Iraq, the generals have told Number 10 that the collapse of the government in Afghanistan, headed by Hamid Karzai, would present a grave threat to the security of Britain.
‘The situation in Afghanistan is much worse than many people recognize,’ Inge told peers. ‘We need to face up to that issue, the consequence of strategic failure in Afghanistan and what that would mean for NATO… We need to recognize that the situation - in my view, and I have recently been in Afghanistan - is much, much more serious than people want to recognize.’
‘The consequences of failure in Afghanistan are far greater than in Iraq,’ he said. ‘If we fail in Afghanistan then Pakistan goes down. The security problems for Britain would be massively multiplied.
The warnings from Ashdown and the generals on Afghanistan will be echoed in a report this week by the all-party Commons defense select committee. MPs will say that the combination of civilian casualties, war damage and US-led efforts to eradicate lucrative poppy crops risk turning ordinary people towards the Taliban.
Adam Holloway, a Tory member of the committee who is a former Grenadier Guards officer, said: ‘We are getting to the point where it will be irretrievable. That’s where we are now. We are in danger of a second strategic failure [after Iraq], which we cannot afford.’”
Inge’s remarks reflect the fears of serving generals that the government is so overwhelmed by Iraq that it is in danger of losing sight of the threat of failure in Afghanistan.
I try to take my strength from my husband the Marine.
He reminds me daily that he served and fought to protect America and our constitutional rights… and that includes the free speach of asshats like Ted Rall.
Something Ted Rall and his ilk would deny my conservative husband.
I know who my heros are. Does Ted?
Isn’t there a way to set your preferences on these blogs so those posters you don’t want to read - like feralcat and MikeB - just don’t show up? Nothing personal, of course.
#89
Rod, I am always happy to try to help anyone in distress.
Use the system software syntax of
./”You can’t handle the truth!” enable
If that does not work, your optometrist may be able to fit you with special rose colored glasses or contacts lenses.
If neither of the above work, get a 12 gauge shotgun and shoot your computer.
Make sure that no small children or pets are nearby.
Freaksloan
My heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and neighbors over the loss of Sgt Kline … I have no doubt that he represented the best America has to offer …
RyanInSanJose
re: MikeB’s comment about President Reagan going to church … well I don’t regularly attend church either … too many hyprocites … (last one out of the bar on Saturday night … first one through the doors on Sunday morning) … I made my peace with my maker in the Jungles of Viet Nam … and I still honor that peace and commitment … I don’t need to put on a show on Sunday or any other day for the sake of others … nothing wrong with going to church … just that it is not a criteria by which you can judge an individual’s faith …
Personally I’m glad that Rall puts out crap like this, it blows the theory that the left supports the soldiers completely away. It defines them or should I say it allows them to define themselves. Doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t love to see MM rip him to shreds on the tube but I would rather see her slam this cartoon down on some surrender Democrat and listen to him denouce Rall for it or support it. I would love to see Pelosi squirm over that.
Buzzy …
Sounds good to me …
personally I call those two
Bela Lugosi Pelosi and
Land Deed Reid …
too bad we can’t see