Keith Ellison Watch
Robert Spencer’s latest Jihad Watch covers Muslim Rep. Keith Ellison’s Reichstag Rag.
Video of the remarks here in case you missed ‘em. Katherine Kersten at the Star Tribune was on top of the remarks last week. So were Ed Morrissey, Let Freedom Ring, and AP.
Scott Johnson at Power Line, reported on Ellison’s latest immoderate comments on Mark Levin’s radio show. See Power Line’s Ellison archives here.
And: Bryan Preston has an important reminder of WWII history, Muslim leaders, and the Nazi regime.
More: John Gibson recommends that Ellison take a “big fat chill pill.”
See what others have said
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Categories: Islam
Er, you mean WWII?
Yep. Fixed.
An American politician should never compare anything that happened in American to something that happened in Nazi Germany. There’s just no Earthly comparison to what happened in Europe from 1933-1945.
Ellison’s comments were artless. All he needed to say was “President Bush used 9/11 to invade a country that had nothing to do with the attacks while violating the civil rights of others.” There. Done. That’s clearly what he meant, not Bush = Hitler.
WWI was an important war too. It set up that whole “Treaty at Versailles” thing that led us straight into WWII
i was wondering how long it would take before we began to hear from this ‘moderate’ muslim. i just can’t imagine what were those voters thinking? oh that is right, he came from sharia land, usa.. forgot..
Once again MM, you just don’t get it and you’re reading comprehension skills are not up to par. Did Oberlin have an affirmative action program?
The Congressman did not say George Bush was a Nazi or practiced genocide. What he said was Bush used 9/11 like Hitler in the sense of sezing dictorial powers: tapping phones of US citizens without a warrant and practicing torture against enemy compatants, using supposedly apolitical law enforcement officials to make political prosecutions and firing those who refuse to follow the law.
Message to MM: 9/11 did not result in a repeal of the Constitution, especially the Fourth Amendment. If it is so pre-9/11 to believe that the Bill of Rights is important and what the US is all about, I am so 9/10.
Geez another one, WAKE UP!
Just to be clear here Mike, the patriot act was passed by both houses of congress. I don’t think Hitler waited for both houses of parliment (or whatever they had then) after the reichstag fire, to seize control and begin his reign of terror.
Why do I have the feeling that MikeB can’t wait to don the burqua and pay the jizya as a good, subservient dhimmi? (You do realize that your beloved 9/10-era Bill of Rights won’t be observed under the coming Sharia-based regime, don’t you?)
It’s amusing (in a sad and terrifying way) how hand-wringing useful idiots like you can’t stand the idea that you aren’t extending undeserved rights to forces who solely seek your conversion, subjugation or death. I’m sure the jihadis lay awake at night worrying about your rights as well.
Walter, I am not talking about the Patriot Act. I am talking about Bush’s illegal policy of wiretapping phones in violation of the FISA. Even though FISA courts rubber stamp whatever Administration forces want and allow immediate wire taps and the right to get approval within 48 hours, Bush-Gonzalez felt that was too much trouble. That darn Constitution. Also, there’s Bush’s 200+ signing statements basically saying that his administration will not follow the laws Congress passed.
Like Hitler, Bush invaded a foreign country without cause or justification. Iraq was never a threat to the US. It had no WMD and with the no fly zone covering much of Iraq, Saddam was very weak. Did he want his neighbors to believe he had nukes, yes. But, we should not have been fooled. The truth is, as Richard Clarke pointed out, Bush wanted to attack Iraq after 9/11 even though Saddam had nothing to do with that attack and hated al Quida. Saddam was a secular leader who never permitted al Quida into Iraq. They are in now because we are in. Saddam was also a counterweight to Iran. Now Iran and al Quida are powerful because of Bush’s blunders.
Everytime one of these individuals chooses to compare GW to Adolf I feel the real story is how the the school system in this nation needs to be completely overhauled as these people are obviously poorly educated, and should be shamefully embarrassed for spewing forth such vile ignorance about WWII. Shocking…
I don’t believe BUSH INVADED IRAQ.
Congressional approval with UN sanctions that were violated, remember?
Unlike Hitler who answered to no one.
Get your facts straight.
Wow. More racist comments from the left. Do you ever think of people without noting their race? I guess not given that one of your much beloved Senators “was” (is) a Kleagle for the KKK. And as far as people not getting it…Let me ask you this: how would you like my comparison of The Clintons’ “co-presidency” to Hitler? Let’s see – they dug into personal FBI files of their opponents, (see filegate) they attacked their own citizens on their own soil under false pretenses because of their religious beliefs, (see the Branch Davidians) and then burned them alive using flammable tear gas and tried to lie about it and cover it up, (like – oh, pick your death camp,)only it was caught on videotape. Let’s not forget the attempt by one of their minions to try to censor history with the smuggling of documents out of the National Archives, (Sandy Burglar.)Would you like more comparisons?
The NSA wiretapping wasn’t targeting US citizens, it was targeting people who were conducting financial transactions with known terror organizations. As far as torture, I don’t believe waterboarding is torture. What Saddam did was torture: electrocuting peoples’ privates etc. Do you wonder why we question your patriotism? It’s because you people always come down on the side of terrorists. Always. Every time. AS for Keith Ellison, I LIVE in the nutty 5th district of Mpls. I live among the people who voted for this imbecile. He’s an embarrassment. He has much more in common with the Nazi’s – given the things he’s said about Jews. Look it up Mike B. and tell me who is more of a Nazi.
gippergirl, that is EXACTLY why I no longer teach in the public school system.
Brainwashing and the PC mentality is beyond belief….and my moral compass will not allow me to be a sheep.
Do not feed the MikeB.
MikeB, I could be on your side, but that Oberlin comment was beyond the pale.
What Ellison said was stupid, but there is a grain of truth to what he was saying. GWB was looking for an excuse to invade Iraq. 9/11 was as good an excuse as any.
The 2nd paragraph of post #10 is the same old package of liberal lies and talking points used to spread the Big Lie of the war being all wrong and blah-blah-woof-woof.
Every single sentence can be refuted with FACTS, but since I’ve got work to do – being a gainfully employed member of society puts me at a disadvantage to the welfare-sucking leeches like MikeB; or is it a trust fund paying your ISP? – I’ll leave it to the other able posters here to tear his specious spiel to shreds.
As I stated from the outset, of course, there is vast differences between Hitler and Bush. But, what all of you don’t get is the vast differences between al Quida and Saddam and Hitler. If Hitler did not make the mistake of invading the USSR, he may have conquered the world. Compared to the Nazis, al Quida is nothing. Yes, they are terrorists and harder to fight, but do they represent the same dire threat to Western Civilization as Hitler, not by a long stretch.
By the way Dirk, I am doing the American thing–the boss is on vacation, so I am posting on the internet.
MikeB,
Your points about Saddam are the ones we’ll need to evaluate as we begin to leave Iraq to the Iraqis. Will the Malaki government be the foundation of a bumpy road to democracy? Or will the country split up and Al-Sadr control most of the oil and cozy up to Iran?
If it is the former history will look well upon Bush. If the latter happens then a lot of money was spent and lives lost to for an outcome worse than the status quo ante.
foxforce, if you and MM aren’t racists, why is it that reading this site you would believe the only people in the world who make outrageous comments are Muslims. Like all racists, MM lumps all Muslims together, not recognizing the complex reality and internal conflicts: Sunnis vs. Shia; Fattah vs. Hamas; Arabs vs. Kurds; Arabs vs. Turks.
I am sorry to make that comment, if it offends anyone. But MM herself, in a prior exchanged, implied that I am intellectually challenged and I was offended. But, I won’t do what MM does and play the race card, either against Muslims or Mexicans, and take back the affirmative action comment.
But, what all of you don’t get is the vast differences between al Quida and Saddam and Hitler.
Time to step in here…
I hardly think, if you look back at all the items discussed by MM, that only Muslims are characterized as making outrageous comments.
There are plenty of liberals that make them too, as well as some Republicans, and others, and when they make them, MM points it out.
Obviously, making the comment aobut ‘playing the race card, either against Muslims or Mexicans’, you refer to illegal immigration.
MM, as well as most of us here, have stated NUMEROUS times that it is the ILLEGAL part that disturbs us. I challenge you, MikeB, to show any proof whatsoever of MM making a comment against LEGAL Immigration or Immigrants.
MM and most of us do not lump all Muslims together – When we talk about threats from them we are referring to Radical Islam. We are talking about the Radical Imams who spew hate for the USA and others in Mosques here in our Country. We talk about those who believe that the USA is evil and needs to be destroyed with much of Western Civilization.
It is you who is lumping THOSE Muslims in with the moderates and seem not to be able to distinguish between those who seek to live their lives as they wish, and those who wish to do the same by destroying all the rest of us.
MikeB – You haven’t said one thing on this site that hasn’t been said a thousand time before. Do you have an original thought in your head?
Only good thing about liberals is eventually they will DIE!
foxforce91,
If you are denying vast differences between Al Qaeda, Saddam & Hitler then I think you are overstating your case. Similarities? Sure. The differences, though, are huge and very important from a military strategy standpoint.
I’m here to help!
Foxforce, I am well aware of the destructive history of the Baathists, including rapes, tortures, gasings, etc. The point is Saddam never had 1/100th the power of Hitler. At the time of Hitler’s rise, Germany was arguably the most powerful country in the world in terms of military power, economics, science and technology, etc. Saddam could not even defeat Iran. The point is Bush, MM, etc. like to greatly exaggerate the power of Saddam and Osama to make them out to be a threat equal to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan and they are no where near them.
What are the chances that MikeB isn’t your run-of-the-mill liberal, but rather one of the new breed of jihidis we heard about recently? The ones that got their instructions to go forth into cyberspace, infiltrate websites like this and spew their brand of horsefeathers – pretty much like what I see MikeB doing here on a regular basis.
How about it MikeB? Care to respond? Or would you just like to go ahead and leave the adults in peace now?
If you’re going to call Betty Friedan, who lost relatives in the holocaust, a “feminazi” , you should grow a thicker skin. Not a day goes by without liberals being called Communist or Nazi or both.
Listen to Ellison’s speach. He did not say Bush was Hitler. He said some political tactics Bush is using are similar to tactics Hitler used. Maybe you conservatives who actually have some influence on Bush should think about Ellison’s message instead of distorting it.
Sorry go disappoint you Governmentdrone, I am not a Jihadist (I can’t even spell that word.) I think strapping a bomb to myself clashes with my suit. Regarding “horsefeathers” and “freaksloan” comments, you say my thoughts are unoriginal. What about MM: the MSM is liberal, universities are liberal, Illegal aliens are criminals, Muslims are evil. Where’s the originality in that?
lgm, are you really gonna whine about liberals getting called commie or nazi? Really?
I think the phrase Bush*tler (dunno how strong MMs filters are, but I’ve seen filters tag that) and the variations like Chimperor McBush*tlerburton are more numerous than the stars.
“Compared to the Nazis, al Quida is nothing. Yes, they are terrorists and harder to fight, but do they represent the same dire threat to Western Civilization as Hitler, not by a long stretch.”
This depends on how you view the situation.
Certainly, Al Qaida is not as organized and centrally located as the Nazi regime. However, that also is a strength. Al Qaida is global. There are factions & splinter cells around the world. They also have the ability to blend into modern society until they strike. They have the ability to spew their hatred and hide behind liberal fences who say it’s not their hate speech which is dangerous, it’s the policies and lifestyles of those they hate that is the problem.
They have the ability to carry out acts of war and terrorism and have the liberals claim that they have the same rights as law-abiding Americans; that enemy combatants captured on the battlefield should be tried in a court of law, not a military tribunal.
Yes, Al Qaida and the Nazis are VERY different. You didn’t see a good number of Americans or Europeans blabbering on about the rights of Nazis.
Well, their use is more numerous than the stars.
” What about MM: the MSM is liberal, universities are liberal, Illegal aliens are criminals, Muslims are evil. Where’s the originality in that? ”
1. The MSM is liberal – fact.
2. Universities are liberal – fact, for the most part.
3. Illegal aliens are criminals – fact, what part of ‘illegal’ is so hard to comprehend?
4. Muslims are evil – where did you get this from? Where has MM said that ( referring to ALL Muslims ) that this is so?
My point JRL is that I was accused of non-original thoughts, but my point is MM beats her dead horse over and over. The point about Muslims is why must she identify Keith Elison as a Muslim at all? Does she call other congresspeople “Christian Senator” so and so or “Jewish Congresswoman” x. MMM herself was offended when someone called her an “Asian Ann Coulter.” She said she wasn’t Asian, but American. So Keith is not a Muslim, he’s an American too.
Sorry MikeB, your protestations aren’t convincing. Your arguments give you away, as do your single-minded attacks on the hostess of this site.
What is it about freedom in general and America in particular that bothers you? Specifics, please, and none of the typical canned response about how the current presidency is not legitimate, they are a bunch of war-profiteers, etc. We’ve heard them all before.
Tell us why you hate America, and will go to the ends of the earth to support jihad.
“Moderate” my ass. The doctors in London and Scotland were ‘moderate’. That is how it is supposed to look. I am sorry but I will go out on a limb here and say ‘no Muslims in our Government’, We are God fearing people, not martyrs.
Mike, Mike, Mike…Did you read what you wrote??? “Even those FISA rubber stamps all of the requests…”. If they rubber stamp their requests then what problem do you have??
Secondly, the whole process is outdated due to changes in technology!!!! They did bring it to FISA but after the fact.
The primary reason was/is technology. If a phone call is made (via a landline) to a Cell phone then, “according to FISA”, they need to get a warrant to tap the cell phone. Guess what…You then need a warrant to tap the “other cell phone” calls as well.
Do you NOT see the bureacracy here??? THAT’S the reason that FISA doesn’t work!!!!
(Point 1 finished)
IF all of those darned wiretaps have been so intrusive to our civil liberties, can you PLEASE show me a person who have been affected by it? Well, I’ll give you the answer….
YES, people HAVE HAD their rights violated by this act. Including amongst them the people who were planning on blowing up the Brooklyn Bridge (which doesn’t really translate too well into Arabic by the way). THAT’S just the tip of the iceberg. “Well, that’s not fair”.
Regarding torture, even my 11 year old gets it. He said to me, “Dad, torture is when they do it for no reason or just because they want to be mean”. If they do it to find out answers then it’s not torture.”. Well said!!!!
Point 3 about Bush being the dictator that he is. I heard ALL of the Democrats saying that “once we got into office, we were going to STOP THIS WAR”. Congress controls the money. Have they stopped payments??? Have they put their Visa cards away and closed up the check book?? Nope, that’s what I thought you were going to say!!!
You mean like Germany during WWII? To borrow a line from Animal House, “Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor!!!!!”. No, they did not. Germany wasn’t a “threat” to the U.S. They hadn’t even built their V2 rockets….YET!!!! The main word is YET!!! Americans raided MANY of their heavy water factories to stop Gerany from building weapons (including the Atomic Bomb).
Also, exactly WHAT was the justification to “invade” Bosnia??? It’s a good thing that we got out soldiers out ASAP….HEY, WAIT A MINUTE!!!! They’re still there!!!! Get my Congressman on the phone (Schumer, Yuck!) Where are the Congressmen asking for a troop withdrawl from Bosnia???? The reason that they DO NOT leave is because of the massive genocidal killing that will take place JUST LIKE IRAQ if we leave now.
I don’t even know where to begin with this one.
OK, please…get a map. LOOK at the Map of the Middle East. So Al-Qaida is in Afganistan. Check, no arguments there, right? So Al-Qaida is in Saudia Arabia too…right? Did you KNOW what countries are in between those 2 countries???
Yup, Iraq and Afganistant. You’re probably right though. Iraq and Iran were just “fly over country” to get to their next Al-Qaida picnic
IF you’re so “Constitution” and you are SO “9/10″, how about the following:
How about the First Amendment being totally screwed over by SCOTUS for both Religion AND McCain Feingold. Wait, did someone say “Fairness Doctrine” as well???
“Congress shall make no law”. Hey, Mr. Pre 9/11. I don’t remember seeing any posts about this one!!!!!
How about the 2nd Amendment?? Go to D.C. and ask your average citizen IF they can own a handgun and carry it LEGALLY!!!! Go ahead, ask!!
Do you want to even mention FDR and the New Deal???? What Congress NEVER, EVER had the power and the authority to do until FDR added new Supreme Court Justices to get his way.
I’m glad you know about those “Pre 9/11″ rights that everybody has!!!
Am I up to the 5th Amendment yet about how Private Property should not be taken for public use, without just compenstation”. Do you KNOW how many THOUSANDS (Yes, THOUSANDS. This is a FACT, not a myth) of times private property has been taken “By the Government” (See SCOTUS ruling in CT.) for public use. Sorry, for private use by “another” company.
So there are thousands of times that the goverment has taken private property from citizens but yet you cannot mention an instance where a persons civil rights have been violated due to what YOU refer to as “illegal wiretapping”. Where’s youre outrage on that????
GD, who said I hate America. I love America, especially being able to exchange ideas with such open minded citizens like yourself. I never said the current Presidency is illegitimate. I said it is a failure on domestic policy (social security, Katrina, Medicare, immigration, health insurance, etc.) and foreign policy (Afghanistan: Warlords and Al Quida in control; Iraq: Civil war, no legitimate government, borders not secure, etc.; Palestine: Failure to engage the conflict resulting in conflicts between Lebanon-Israel, Fatah and Hamas, Hamas and Israel, etc.). Also, Bush has blindly let Cheney attempt to seize power over other branches of government: Not getting warrants to wiretap phones within US soil, torturing enemy combatants, violating international treaties on war prisoners, politicizing US attorneys’ offices, etc. I LOVE FREEDOM. Freedom means the government can’t violate the law.
Keith Ellison is the first Muslim elected to Congress. Every media outlet, including blogs & the internet know this and refer to him in this manner.
If you criticize this – do you also criticize the constant rehash & questioning of Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith?
One difference, however, is that Mitt Romney’s Mormons are not ‘mixed in’ with any type of group that is radically trying to destroy the United States or Western Civilization.
Elison has spoken before Muslim groups such as the Muslim Conference in Dearborn, Michigan, talking about how Muslims can show the world about tolerance. Yet some of these ‘Muslims’ are the same ones who preach about the hate of Western Civilization and the hate of America.
Where is their tolerance? And why would we want anyone associated with these types in ANY way ( not a working relationship, per se, but in ANY sense ) employed as a representative in our Government?
Notice how the useful idiot MikeB keeps repeating the shibboleth about Al Queda not being a real threat in order to distract from the REAL threat to civilization: Radical Islamic Theocratic Fascism. This deflection technique is like an alcoholic bleating that Coors isn’t a threat to mankind to cover up the global threat that beer presents to sobriety.
What the ostrich people want to do is tell us that because there isn’t a photo of Saddam handing Osama a check with “For big September 11th attack” on the memo line it means that Saddam hated Al Queda like John Wayne hated Injuns. As Europe goes up in flames at the hands of people screaming “Allah Akbar!!!” (i.e. “God is nifty”), the lack of official matching Team Al Queda uniforms allows the ostrich people to gaze upon the mayhem and curse that cowboy Dubya for allowing global warming to cause such incidents.
To listen to the reality-challenged dolts like MikeB is to hear the sound of what lies beyond the Looking Glass.
If “invading a foreign country without cause or justification” or domestic skull duggery, etc. is the qualification for comparing Bush to an historical figure, why not Gorbachev? Or McKinley? or Polk?
No, the comparison to Hitler is deliberate. It’s also ignorant and disrespectful, but that’s liberalism for you.
Harry, Harry, Harry…If you want to debate me, debate what I said not whomever you seem to be addressing. I didn’t say Hitler invaded the US, but he did invade Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, Belgium, Netherlands, the USSR, etc.
And, re. Saddam and al Quida, yes they were in Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia. The point is Saddam hated them and did not let them spread inside Iraq. They spread there because we overthrew Saddam. By the same token, Saddam was a counterweight to Iran and the Shia. Not any more, by the time this things over southern Iraq will be part of Iran thanks to our genius Chief Executive and those so smart Neo-Cons. As George Orwell said, “Only someone so smart can believe something so stupid.”
I am not for the fairness doctrine and it’s a non-starter. I also thing the Supreme Court was wrong in that New London case.
McCain-Feingold was aimed at ending the influence of special interests (of all varieties) in politics. With soft money corporations and unions can have too much influence on Congress. M-F is designed to protect the speech rights of average citizens against powerful interests. The point is if I speak with my regular human voice, I get drowned out by someone with a huge megaphone. A union or corp. giving a politician $50,000 in soft money has more influence than a citizen giving nothing or $100.
Are we clear?
lgm:
Ellison did indeed refer to Bush in terms that identified him with Hitler. By comparing 9/11 as an “inside job” with the Reichstag fire – an event Hitler used to invoke emergency powers under the Weimer Constitution – he clearly meant to compare Bush’s tactics of setting up a dictatorship in America with Hitler’s.
You can spin it all you want – but everyone on the planet knows exactly what he means and what he was referring to.
Harry:
The technical problems probably – and we don’t know this which has always made criticizing the terrorist surveillance program a little daffy because we have no idea of the technological aspects of the program – with getting FISA approval had to due with dozens perhaps hundreds of phones, email accounts, and other sources of intel that were identified from one intercept.
Evidently, the telecom companies gave the NSA access to switching stations where one call could then be traced to all the phones and such that had been in contact with it. FISA was not set up to deal with such technology and that’s probably why it wasn’t invoked.
Beyond that, no one was sitting there listening to your aunt Martha gossip with your mother. Calls were digitally recorded and scanned, looking for key words and phrases. This makes the left’s critique even more loony.
ONLY SOME DUMB BRUTE OF A COMPUTER EVER MONITORED THE CALLS!
Once it was established that there was no reason to hold the call for further analysis, it was discarded back into the ether, never to be heard by a single, living, human being.
The NY Times reported that there were about a half dozen occassions where innocent people had their calls held in a queue for further analysis. Each time, the NSA employee called the agency’s attorney for advice on how to deal with the mistake. Each instance was logged and the call and phone number discarded.
No massive intrusions into privacy. No targeting anti-war or anti-Bush people. And it’s funny but every single outside person who has been briefed on some of the classified way in which calls were monitored agree that the program was extraordinarily careful in protecting civil liberties and did not violate the law.
You can rail against this program all you want but you’re only parroting talking points drawn up by Democrats. The facts are there for all to see. Of course, they didn’t come out for months or even years after the NY Times smear job which is why the information went down the rabbit hole.
Besides, to civil liberties absolutists, even the threat of a violation is reason enough to impeach the President. That kind of unbalanced outlook on domestic intelligence gathering in the age of terror is going to get a lot of Americans killed someday. And people like me are going to make sure exactly who should be blamed for it.
Um – sorry Harry. I didn’t mean to imply you were the target of that rant. It was the people you were responding to I was going after.
JRL, I do criticize calling Elison “Muslim”; Romney “Mormon”; Malkin “Asian.” We should get out of that kind of labeling. This is the US after all, not Iraq.
Is this what your Sith Lord and Master Darth Soros told you to say or did you look up this delusional bon mot yourself on the McCain web site? If a union giving $50K has a bigger voice, what does a currency manipulator like Soros get for his expenditure of tens of millions? No need to answer – all we have to do is watch what the Dems are doing to see what his money is buying.
Perhaps you prefer megamillionaire Dems like Jon “Buckle Up!” Corzine who can spend $100+ million of their own cash to buy a Senate seat and a governorship. Bloomberg is causing the Treason Media to wet themselves at the thought of tapping his billions to purchase a Presidency; how does that square with your blather about the speech rights of average citizens?
As the firestorm directed at the shamnesty scam showed, as much as our elite rulers prefer to act in the name of their money masters and their own selfish interests, members of the proletariat are still required to turn out in sufficient numbers to maintain their claim to the levers of power. While they may’ve served their masters in destroying the nation with shamnesty, what good is the victory if you’re voted out of power and forced to live in the cesspool you created?
I suspect you are either a typical liberal or a savvy conservative who is entertaining himself by pretending to be this stupid and naive.
Just one question, how did this moron win the election for his office? and MIKEB…where the hell do you come from..man, talk about pure sophistry….can you actually pick a subject to debate, you’re all over the board…”oh boo hoo..I hate Bush because he doesn’t agree with my insipid view of the world….and he’s so mean!..and he’s sooo stupid, ohmygod…why can’t the unwashed masses of NEO CONS see how mean he is, he is the reason for all the ills of the world.”
I never trust anyone that uses the term NEO CON in an argument. (what the hell is a neo con?)That’s like when you argue with a liberal and they call you a bigot, you know they really don’t have a stance to debate…Gosh MIKEB, do you think Bush’s policy on social security, Medicare, immigration, health insurance, etc was much different from the last president?, that’s why I’m unhappy with him, he tried to work with the DEMs too…if your a Conservative, be a conservative, not some whimpy quasi conservative……and let me give you a little inside info, Bush didn’t cause Katrina (or the aftermath, which we can debate forever)..that was God or mother nature…I’m not happy with Bush, but let’s not blame every ill in the world on him…
MikeB:
Where to begin? Your definition of “failure” on domestic policy seems to mean that the government isn’t an all-caring, all-encompassing nanny state. Well, hooray for that.
Social Security – let me out of the system entirely. Let me invest my own money, thank you. Oh wait, that wouldn’t benefit either the dimocrat party or the unproductive leeches on society. Can’t let that happen.
Katrina? Let’s look to the failures of state and local government for that one shall we? FEMA’s response was pretty much what we have seen through the years in other parts of the country. Difference was in the level of preparedness and response at the state and local level.
Medicare? Call it what it really is – socialized medicine. No thank you.
Immigration? While I would say we agree on this one, I doubt it. Our failure here has been a failure to not close the borders completely and control immigration more tightly. Also, I’m sick of saying that illegal immigrants can’t be deported. They are illegal. Deport them now. It’s not that it can’t be done, it’s that it won’t be done.
Foreign policy? Afghanistan? Hmm, wonder what Hamid Karzai thinks of your opinion about who is running his country? Warlords and al Queda in control? Causing problems? You bet. In control? Not unless we pull out prematurely, as your ilk would have us do.
Iraq. Civil war? No. Enemy combatants infiltrating the country, causing great harm and loss of life. But not civil war. At least as this country defines it.
No legitimate government? Tell that to the Iraqis who defied the terrorists to proudly go to polling places, cast their votes and mark their fingers purple.
Borders not secure? NEWS FLASH! Neither are the US borders. What’s your point?
Palestine? Where is this? Can you please point out Palestine on a map? The “Palestinian” issue is one of the biggest canards in the middle east. The only proper solution is to insure that their countries of origin take the so-called “Palastinians” back, then give the Israelis a free hand to defend their country – with our full support.
Bush “blindly let Cheney attempt to seize power over branches of government”. Examples please. Specifics. Which departments? How were these power grabs made? When?
Not getting warrants to wiretap phones within US soil? Do your research. Those warrantless wiretaps had nothing to do with tapping phones on US soil. This has been one of the biggest lies put forth by the dimocrats and pounded home day after day by their propaganda arm, the old-guard media. Almost as big a lie as Valerie Plame being a covert CIA operative. I’m tired of the lies and will call them such every time I see them. It’s the only way we can put an end to them.
Torturing enemy combatants? Examples please, and they better be something besides waterboarding, making “human pyramids” and being forced to look at pictures of unclothed women. I’ve read the reports. Have you? Want torture? Try looking into what happened to Daniel Pearl, then tell me that the way we treat these illegal combatants falls into the same category.
Violating international treaties on war prisoners? Wrong again MikeB. The people we hold a prisoners are illegal combatants under international laws and treaties. They do not wear the uniform of a national army, and they do not operate according to the rules of warfare. They are outside the laws and HAVE NO RIGHTS UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW. Again, do your research. Read the source materials, the treaties and laws themselves – don’t get your talking points from Al Franken, Jon Stewart, Keith Ellison, the ACLU, Daily Kos or whoever it is you think provides you “unbiased” information.
Politicizing US attorney’s offices? You are so wrong so often, I’m amazed at how you do it. Those offices serve at the pleasure of the President. That means that he can fire them because he doesn’t like their face. Or what they ate for lunch. Or because they weren’t doing their jobs. It doesn’t matter. Remember, Bill Clinton fired the ALL. ALL of them. ALL at the same time. And nobody on your side of the aisle said a word about it.
I LOVE FREEDOM? Bah. Not from where I stand. You have no ideas to further the cause of freedom in this country aside from your version of “I hate Bush”. I’ve got news for you. We know that already. What’s your plan? What are your ideas? What would you do differently? Oh, and please make it something that would work in the real world – not that fantasyland you seem to think we live in.
And debate will will:
My point to you was that while Hitler didn’t invade the US, we invaded Germany. Why?? To “stop the spread of Nazism” Al-Qaida HAS EXISTED in Pakistan, Afganistan, Checnya, Australia, Iraq, Great Britan, etc. Why are we in Iraq still fighting them?? “To stop the spread of Islamic Extremism”.
Just so I’m clear here. You’re saying that because an evil dictator no longer exists in Iraq, Al-Qaida stepped right in? Well thank you for giving just cause while we shouldn’t leave!!!! Why?? Well, they’ll just fill the void left by Sadamm. (Other countries as well i.e. Afganistan)
If you’re going to quote George Orwell, I prefer “The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it.”
Exactly WHERE in the Constitution does it say anything about “average” citizen’s vs. all citizens??? If it’s to protect “average” citizens, then why not put limits to the first Amendment regarding Freedom of the Press? They are certainly powerful. Always have been, always will be. Shouldn’t we limit their “power” against average citizens???
Clear as a bright sunny day!!!
Dirk: I, by no means, support rich people like Corzine or Bloomberg “buying” elections. Although, they did get elected, unlike say Ross Perot, Michael Huffington, and others. I don’t think a rich person should be able to use his or her money to get in office, while a less rich one is a todie for some powerful interest. M-F was designed to support those who can’t raise megabucks. Apparently, with this Presidential election, we are witnessing its shortcomings.
I am actually in favor of a system similar to the ones in Europe. Short campaigns with 100% government financing. That way, the winner isn’t determined by how much money their campaign has. But, I know, I am dreaming. MM and others want the NRA to stay in power to make sure everyone’s right to buy four assault rifles in one day remain in force.
Thanks Rick,
I read your fine comments and thought, “Wait a minute, I’m on HIS side???”.
That was the meaning behind it…Purchase 20 pre-paid cellphones and you need a warrant for each of them, NOT within 48 hours but now.
OK. I was wrong. MikeB isn’t the covert jihidi type infiltrating the blog. He’s just your typical lefty troll. I can’t believe I wasted so much time responding to it.
Move along folks. Nothing to see here. And please don’t feed the troll.
MikeB-
Didn’t you read Mr. Prestons article on “Shabzz and the Hitler smear?” Don’t you know about the 13th Waffen Mountain Division? This alone proves who’s really like the SS. Sadam Hussein violated 13 UN resolutions and he was shooting at our planes in the No Fly Zone.
/s/
jose
“Neocon” is the new “Nazi”. The Left has adopted this meaningless term so they can pronounce it as a shibboleth against non-liberals without running afoul of Godwin’s Law. Their fellow travelers know that it’s meant to smear their enemies with the old familiar Nazi brush while affording plausible deniability about having committed such smears to those unversed in the lingo. (e.g. “I never called you a Nazi! Where did I write that word?”)
What I’ve never been able to understand is how the Left persists in calling non-liberals “fascists” and “Naz…er…neocons” at the same time as they demand greater government control of everything – socialization today; is nationalization next? – and accuse us of being Zionists beholden to Israeli puppet masters. To take the rhetoric of the unhinged Left at face value means that conservatives are “Jew-loving Jew-killers.”
Whoops! Figured it out. The Left is NUCKING FUTS!!!!! No wonder it doesn’t make any sense; being sane and all on this side.
Being called a troll on this site, thank you–I earned another badge of honor. And for all of your information, I never saw a “talking point.” My views are my own.
Government Drone: FYI, Kharzi controls Kabul and nothing else. The rest of Afghanistan is run by warlords (who make money from Opium) and the Taliban is coming back. Why? Because instead of fighting the people who carried out 9-11 we got diverted to Iraq, to fight Saddam because W wanted to prove he’s not his father and can “take out” Saddam, unlike his father who actually listened to allies. The result: we lost Afghanistan and Iraq.
Jferg: Neocons are people like Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, and Dick Cheney who believe that the US can unilaterally use military force to create Jeffersonian democracies throughout the Third World. And they have to be right because whomever they said so and they are oh, so smart. Just like the Kennedy-Johnson-Nixon Administrations “knew” they could turn around Vietnam. These examples show that “smart” people really have no understanding of the history and culture of the people they want to model into their image. Remember George Washington’s and John Quincy Adams’s and yes, W’s warnings (when he ran for President saying we should have a modest foreign policy and not nation-build) about foreign intanglements and not trying to be a police force over the world.
I hope everyone is noticing how MikeB refuses to acknowledge Clinton’s war on Kosovo – a country that was truly no threat to us and we didn’t have the UN’s permission to attack – which resulted in substantial civilian casualties and where our troops are still stuck patrolling to prevent civil war and sectarian violence from breaking out again.
The only “good wars” are the ones Democrats start. If they didn’t start it, then it must end in defeat so as to have the campaign issue against the Stupid Party. The moment Hillary! or Obama took office, they’d fall silent even if they broke their campaign promises to surrender and retreat post haste. This is why everything that Dems said about Saddam in 1998 became lies when Dubya said them in 2003. The only thing that changed in those five years was the party symbol of the feckless socialist sitting in the Oval Office.
Extreme radical Democrats like MikeB aren’t Americans – they’re Democrats first, last, and all in-between, and on Planet Democrat, the sky is pink and you can drink from frothy Kool-Aid rivers all day long. For extra irony, they insist that they live a “reality-based” existence. Puh-leeze.
Dirk, you must not have seen my last post, because I distinctly remember Kennedy and Johnson as being Democrats.
Also, I supported our involvement in Kosovo to stop genocide. We had strong allied support and only used American military for air strikes. That is completely different than Iraq which we invaded without support of most of the world and where we have thousands of troops on the ground getting killed because they are standing between rival religious and political and terrorist groups.
Mike B,
One more thing for you regarding the whole “invasion” against those that hadn’t invaded us.
Bay of Pigs INVASION
Also, a particular point. Afganistan, as a country, DID NOT ATTACK US. Why did we invade Afganistan when it was only portions of the country that did it???
Just one of those little gotcha’s for those that give out the “They didn’t attack us” crowd.
C’mon, is this a joke already??? You suppor Kosovo to stop genocide but WHAT IN THE HELL IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN IRAQ????
The Troops in Kosovo are also standing betweeen “rival religious and political groups”. Most geonicde takes place because of these rivals.
Harry B, I am not one who blindly supports Democrats in all circumstances. The Bay of Pigs was a disaster and wrong and Kennedy admitted that. Unlike Kennedy, Bush and his toadies (Coulter, Malkin, Hannity, Limbaugh) never admit mistakes.
Yes, Afghanistan did not invade us, but Al Quida’s headquarters was in Afghanistan where they combined with the Taliban to rule that country. Please note: They were not in IRAQ until we went to Iraq. Bush has made it less safe for Americans than more safe.
Harry, if you are so concerned about genocide, how come I don’t hear your plan on Darfur?
Mike,
As far as Darfur goes, yes, “something” should be done. That’s where the feckless United Nations stands up so loud and says, “We’re not going to take it anymore”. The United States is taking the battle to Iraq & Al Qaeda that other are afraid to get involved with.
Where is the United Nations on Darfur??? Where are the French who want to be a super power? Becoming a super power involves the supreme sacrifice.
The United Nations doesn’t want to get involved because it’s NOT going to be dropping bombs (i.e. Kosovo which I supported) but rather true “boots on the ground”. Getting right in the middle of the genoicde and most countries outside of the U.S, Great Britan, Australia, etc don’t want to get bloodied.
Mike,
As far as a connection between Iraq & Al Qaeda, there are numereous instances between them.
Included among them is OBL’s indctment written up in 1998 by..DUM DUM DUMMMMMM….Bill Clinton’s Justice Department.
Part of that indctment for Osama, written up by the Justice Dept says the following:
Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezballah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the Government of Iraq.
The rest of Afghanistan is run by warlords (who make money from Opium) and the Taliban is coming back. Why? Because instead of fighting the people who carried out 9-11 we got diverted to Iraq, to fight Saddam because W wanted to prove he’s not his father and can “take out” Saddam, unlike his father who actually listened to allies…
First, you have no proof of that BS about Bush. None. Zero. Zilch. Bush has never said anything like that. No one close to him has ever said anything like that. The only people who have are people like you – doing a pissant job of extremely amatuer psychoanalyzing.
That, my friend IS a talking point.
As for Afghanistan, considering that no one has ever been able to govern that country – no one. ever. – to say that the reason things are not going well is because Bush went into Iraq flies in the face of reality. We have 35,000 NATO troops in there along with 30,000 Americans.
Are you seriously trying to say that 5 years after we overthrew the Taliban that we would have more troops there? It was ALWAYS the plan to get NATO involved. It was ALWAYS the plan not to have too many of our troops there.
Your hindsight is incredible, btw, because OBL is not the problem in Afghanistan. No one could have forseen Musharraf caving in to the tribes in the NWFP thus allowing the Taliban to regain strength and give al-Qaeda some breathing space. North and South Waziristan became bases that numerous attacks have been launched against targets in Afghanistan. That is not Bush’s fault nor the fault of the US. It is a direct result of Musharraf’s short sightedness which could not have been forseen even by a soothsayer like you nor could the US have done anything about it – without hearing screams of protest from the left about Bush making Musharraf his puppet.
Bush cannot be blamed for every thing that goes wrong in the world. If a mosquito sneezes in Madagascar, it’s Bush’s fault according to people like you. That is a stupid, shallow, idiotic notion that the left mindlessly carries on with despite mountains of evidence to the contrary.
Stop with the talking points and think for yourself for once.
DirkBelig & jferg49,
Neoconservative is a term that has been used by many conservatives since the cold war to identify a branch of conservative thought. Bill Kristol’s father, Irving, considered by some to be the founder of neoconservatives described a neocon as a “liberal mugged by reality”. Bill Kristol’s PNAC is perhaps the most important think tank for neoconservative thought. You can read their principles at the newamericancentury website. It is signed by influential individuals such as Dick Cheney, Donal Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abrams and Jeb Bush.
More traditional conservatives, for instance William F. Buckley, Pat Buchanan or George Will, have been critical of neoconservative positions on issues such as immigration and the projection of military power.
While neocon is a loose term (as are liberal and conservative). Many political savvy and influential people use the term as a way of organizing political thinking.
Nope. As I said, “neocon” is used by liberals as a smear word to label someone a Nazi. Words lose their true meanings once liberals speak them. Reality is incompatible with liberal behaviors and beliefs.
I’ve been called a fascist and had volumes of text in German posted in my direction in response to mentioning that I was a small-L libertarian. Get that? To liberals, libertarian = Nazi, er, neocon. The madness of the mad (i.e. angry.)
Harry, your “proof” of an alliance between Saddam and OBL is weak. It is similar to the Hitler-Stalin Pact and you know how stable that was. Yes, for the time being, they wouldn’t fight each other, but Saddam hated religious fanatics like OBL, but he despised the US more. At least you can tell the two apart, as opposed to MM who makes no distinction between Saddam, OBL, and Keith Ellisoin.
Rick, I don’t blame Bush for everything that goes wrong in the world, only the [large amount of] stuff he or his administration botched. I believe Bush made remarks about not making the same mistakes as his father to Robert Woodward. And we also know what Richard Clarke said about Bush wanting to link 9-11 to Iraq right after the attacks, when he knew very well Saddam had nothing to do with it.
Seriously folks, why do you keep arguing with MikeB? He gets off on insulting Michelle in nearly every post and making pointless arguments that spin you all up.
Ignore him.
Are you referring to the encounter on 9/12 that George “Slam Dunk!” Tenet fantasized about in his CYA disasterpiece? You do know that Clarke was stuck in France until 9/14 (IIRC) because all air travel was grounded, right? That means that Tenet is lying about what Clarke is alleged to have said.
Yet another inconvenient truth that negates the lies that have been seared, SEARED, into your vapid mind.
Hi Dirk,
I’ve had American and New Yorker used against me as epithets. That doesn’t negate either label. While the term neocon has been used pejoratively by the left and the right, famously by Russell Kirk, it is usually used descriptively. You are free to view the term however you’d like but it is useful to have a term for the shared philosophies of Bill Kristol’s group and to distinguish them from traditional conservatives.
BTW: Temperamentally, I adhere to a libertarian point of view, as you do. I don’t plan to stop using the term if someone equates libertarianism to fascism.
Ellison= moderate.. WRONG.
Ellison= CAIR (Council of Angry Islamic Radicals) Sympathizer… CORRECT!
Ellison= Enemy of the state…CORRECT!
Ellison= Traitor.. we shall see, but certainly wouldnt rule it out.
Ellison= Truther… CORRECT!
Of course these are my own observations and in no way reflect the opinions of MM or the contributors of this blog.
The “WWI” reference would have been more correct. Kaiser Wilhelm spent a lot of effort wooing Muslims both in the Ottoman Empire and elsewhere in the Mid-East to give himself an ally in European affairs. There was even talk of him converting to Islam (shades of Frederick II).
The radicals seem to think of Germany as a special prize to be won. Like Europe was a box of Cracker Jacks…