The Senate slumber party–Open thread Update: Liveblogging cont’d–The morning after Update:11:25am Levin-Reed fails to reach 60-vote threshold–52-47; Droopy dog Harry feeds the nutroots; Air America crows Update: Roll added…and the politics of obstructionist obstructionism
Hey, why can’t the senators change their own sheets?
Liveblogging the Senate floor debate (refresh for latest updates)…
Jim Hoft notes that the Dems would not meet with anti-surrender veterans. Power Line has more.
Update 1:04pm Eastern. Teddy Kennedy has sent a new amendment on the education bill to the desk. SA 2327. A Senate source tells me that while this stuff is going on on the floor, there are negotiations happening behind the scenes on the homeland security appropriations bill. Lots of other activity on the Hill–including Condi Rice hitting the pavement: “Among lawmakers scheduled to meet with Rice were Biden, Smith, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., and House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio.”
Speaking of Kennedy, by the way, it was 38 years ago today…
Update 12:41pm Eastern. Specter is objecting to Reid’s shenanigans and tactics. “It’s not just rude, but dictatorial.” Call the waaahmbulance. Just to give you an idea about what’s going on behind the scenes: After pulling the defense authorization bill from the floor, Reid tossed up cloture votes on homeland security and education funding bills in anticipation that Republicans would object–giving him fodder for his “See, they’re obstructionists!” moaning–as he obstructs progress on the defense authorization bill.
Blech.
Double blech: Joe Biden is running for president on Senate floor time.
Update 11:55am Eastern. Guess who’s taking credit for the Senate slumber party? Air America (hat tip: Tim Graham).
Roll added on the Levin-Reed amendment vote (just a reminder that Reid changed his vote to no for procedural reasons).
Update 11:42am Eastern. Eeenteresting. Reid moves for consideration of the homeland security appropriations bill, HR2638. McConnell: Asks when the bill will be taken up. Next week? Reid says now. McConnell objects for the moment. Reid moves for cloture vote. Now, he’s moving to cloture vote on education bill. Specter objects. Notes that slumber party was a “colossal waste of time.” Reid cuts him off. There’s a vote going on now on the higher ed bill.
Update 11:26am Eastern FAILED TO REACH 60-VOTE THRESHOLD…52-47. Droopy dog Harry Reid (who switched his vote to no for procedural reasons) is back on the floor to whine. Castigates Republicans for “supporting the president instead of our troops.” Here comes a serving of BDS/MoveOn talking points: Troops were taken to war “falsely, prematurely, and recklessly.” Wants up-down votes on four other amendments in exchange for up-down on Levin-Reed.
McConnell reserves right to object. Quotes Claude Raines in Casablanca, “Gambling in Casablanca? Round up the usual suspects.” McConnell jibes: “60 votes in the Senate? As common as gambling in Casablanca.”
Reid and McConnell sparring. Reid getting all righteous about McConnell’s Casablanca jibe. “This is not a movie. This is serious.” Tell that to Durbin and his joke toothbrush-toting staffers.
Reid: “We’ll come back to this bill as soon as it’s clear we can make real progress.” Just like he’ll revisit shamnesty…
Update 11:01am Eastern. Cloture vote about to begin. First, Reid asks that senators cast votes from their desks and wants chaplain to pray. “If there were ever a time to pray, it is before this vote.” Motion to invoke cloture is read. 60 votes needed to advance Levin-Reed. Mandatory quorum call has been waived. Stand by…lots of empty seats…GOP senators who support Levin-Reed have cast their Ayes: Collins, Hagel, Smith, and Snowe…Boy George Voinovich is a no…
While we’re waiting, I forgot to note for all the procedural geeks that there was a procedural vote cast at 5:13am on H.R. 1585 (National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 ), passed 37-23, with 40 not voting (presumably snoozing in those cots).
Update 10:50am Eastern. Harry Reid thanks all the employees in the Capitol complex–you know, the ones who had to pick up all of his staff’s pizza boxes.
Now, Reid pats himself on the back: “I would hope that these past two days have shined a bright light on how important our work here is in the Senate.”
Never mind how important the work of our troops are on the ground in every front on the war on terror.
What a narcissist.
Hey, Harry: Where’s Tommy?
Update 10:42am Eastern. McConnell is up–”Anyone tuning in to this debate might have thought they were tuning into an episode of the ‘Twilight Zone.’” Mocks Dems protesting the 60-vote threshhold…With respect to my colleagues asking to let them vote, I say we will vote. But the question is whether it will take 60 votes on a very serious amendment…Last night’s theatrics accomplished nothing…nearly all newspapers noted we could have had a vote…after all the gags, gimmicks, giggles, empty pizza boxes, and cots, we still don’t know what this measure would really mean for our troops, allies, interests…What would the Levin amendment do?”
Update 10:37am Eastern. Co-sponsors of the amendment, Reed and Levin, urge passage of the measure. Levin whining about not being able to vote up or down.
Update 10:33am Eastern. Oh, gag. Schumer is on the floor objecting to “cut and run…That’s the same kind of dangerous, nasty sloganeering that got us into this mess in the first place. The other side has a penchant for avoiding serious debate.”
Seriously.
Update 10:24am Eastern. McCain is back on the floor, chastising the stunt Dems for conducting the exhibition for the amusement of the press corps and appeasement of anti-war forces…they are “substituting theatrics for statesmanship.” I’m giving him some credit: He is reading a good script, but he is no Coburn, Thune, Sessions, or Lieberman. “As long as we have a chance to succeed, we must try to succeed…I will stand where I stand and take comfort that I took responsibilities to my country seriously despite by flaws…in an hour of serious peril…”
Update 10:15pm Eastern. Durbin, Obama, Biden join the parade for Levin-Reed.
Update 10:06am Eastern. Caffeine injection–John Cornyn is speaking. “I don’t believe our presence in Iraq is merely optional. I don’t believe our colleagues who say the only thing that is missing is pressure on Iraqi government…I believe the consequences of (withdrawing) would be disastrous for American national security…blasts Dems who want instant resolution on oil revenue-sharing when American government can’t solve insolvency of our Social Security system…I just think that some of my colleagues are taking an unrealistic approach to how fast we expect Iraqi govt to solve its problems…if you listen not to the armchair generals in Washington, D.C., but to the generals on the ground, Gen. Petraeus, they have stated clearly the consequences of failure to the United States…War is an interactive affair. We can quit fighting, but it doesn’t mean our enemies will. It’s almost as if some of our colleagues want to pull the sheets over their heads and pretend the threat doesn’t exist. Unfortunately, life is not that simple and the threat is not so illusory.”
Update 9:58am Eastern. Okay, I take that award back and give it to Jeff Bingaman, now droning on about Abu Ghraib.
Update 9:38am Eastern: Award for most boring reading of BDS talking points goes to Frank Lautenberg. Get me one of those Senate cots STAT.
Code Pink stayed up to harass Ted Stevens, who wandered a parking lot to nowhere while they heckled him. (Hat tip: Allah)
Update 8:30am Eastern. While the Senators drone, U.S. captures leader of Islamic State of Iraq. More here. Jules Crittenden notes that some wobbly Republicans who were distancing themselves from Bush are now wobbling away from the Dems. And Rick Moran boils down last night’s debate: “Last night was about the politics of blame pure and simple. It was about the Democrats being terrified that caving in to their base on Iraq and bringing the troops home in a Dunkirk style evacuation will precipitate a chain of events in Iraq and the Middle East that would result in genocide, war, and al-Qaeda triumphant. Being politicians with finely honed instincts for survival and with absolutely no clue about what to do in Iraq (join the club, guys), they seek to shift responsibility for the coming catastrophe precipitated by our withdrawal and all the blunders, errors, mistakes, and stupidities that have marked our adventure in Mesopotamia these last 4 years in order to be able to face the voters and point the finger at their political foes.”
Don Surber weighs in and lays in: “So the Senate stayed up last night? Thousands of troops stay up every night. They put in 12-hour days. They are beating an enemy that wants to kill us. Reid’s stunt — his word — showed the American people what pampered babies senators are — and how incompetent the Democratic Party’s leaders are. Bush’s approval is 29%? So what? That is still double the 14% confidence rate of the Democratic-controlled Congress. Bush may be nearing Carter levels on job approval, but Congressional Democrats have already bested the 19% record low they set a 14 years ago. How dare Reid complain about the Iraqi government? He cannot even pass a budget.”
Update 7:18am Eastern. Yes, I’m awake again. Mommy duties and multi-tasking on four hours’ sleep. Plus, we’re launching a new grass-roots campaign that I’ll be telling you much more about soon. Back on the Senate floor, Sens. Hatch, Allard, and Whitehouse have all had their turn at the podium. (Check comments for reviews of Sessions, Stabenow, Hillary, and Ken Salazzzzzzzar.) Mercifully, I haven’t seen the “LET US VOTE” placard yet and no one has waved around the ISG report in the last 10 minutes.
Update 2:48am Eastern. Snowe is still going. Plugged the ISG book. “This is a defining moment,” etc. John McCain is back. He must have had a No Doze. He’s tearing into Harry Reid.
Update 7/18 2:29am. Maria Cantwell and Olympia Snowe gave bleary-eyed speeches. Meantime, I just read the WaPo account of the party. Harry Reid trucked in piles of pizza. And Dick Durbin pulled a stunt for the stunt. What a clown senator he is:
The office of Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) dispatched interns to buy toothpaste, toothbrushes and deodorant for delivery to GOP leadership offices, with a note offering the “supplies for your sleepless night.” It added: “Help us bring an end to this war.”
Update 7/18 1:56am. John McCain–seems a little groggy–weighs in to remind the Senate about progress in Ramadi and Fallujah. Muddled about immigration, but clear-thinking about the war. Thune resumes. “I believe Gen. Petraeus will be very candid in September…I think we should give him and the troops a chance to succeed.”
Side note: Maybe it’s my eyes or my TV, but I swear Sen. Thune looks Oompa-Loompa orange.
Uh-oh. Sen. Webb interrupts to ask whether Thune agrees that there is as much diversity of opinion in the military about the war as there is in the Senate. Thune disagrees with the polls Webb quotes showing anti-war sentiment in the military. Webb continues to interrupt and violate floor rules. Thune: “My understanding is that the senator from Virginia has not traveled to Iraq. (Thune has been three times in three years). My experience is different from his…General view I’ve seen: They believe. They want a chance to succeed.”
Update 7/18 1:38am. Sen. Thune is up, and he’s a terrific injection of energy and clarity. He takes on the Dems’ false “Afghanistan war is good”/”Iraq war is bad” dichotomy. Notes that casualties are fewer in Afghanistan because we have fewer there and because the main fight is in Iraq. If we move soldiers to Afghanistan, they’ll kill more of them there. That’s what the enemy does. The Dems don’t understand that this is a titanic war between good and evil…the problem is it is the same enemy…intent on the same objective…we have to fight al Qaeda every place we can…History has shown that fighting wars by committee does not work…”
Debate sparkplugs: Lieberman, Coburn and Thune.
Debate snoozers: Harkin, Akaka, Feinstein, and Alexander.
Update 7/18 1:29am. Sen. Harkin has bleated “Let us vote, let us vote” at least a dozen times. Uh, just a reminder. Reid and McConnell agreed on a procedural vote no earlier than 5am and a scheduled cloture vote at 11am. Harkin plods on: “Just let us vote.”
Eyelids. Feeling. Heavy.
Update 7/18 12:45am Eastern. Akaka is sleep-walking through his speech. Tom Coburn follows him and the contrast couldn’t be greater. I hope the Coburn people post his extemporaneous remarks. Thoughtful, compassionate, measured, penetrating–without the maudlin theatrics, shouting, gimmick placards, and staff-fed soundbite lines. He does his constituents and the GOP proud.
Re. cloture, Coburn notes: “It’s a precedent that the Senate has had for years…the question we ought to be asking…is..one vote (on Levin-Reed) should not make or break..the rest of the defense authorization bill…”
On Darfur vs. Iraq, Coburn notes his work on Darfur and says: “Darfur is going to be a blip on the screen compared to what will happen to Iraq if we leave now…”
Coburn responds directly to Menendez’s diatribe: “I don’t believe we need to have our moral compasses checked. We just happen to have a difference of opinion…the Iraq war is a perplexing situation for all of us. I believe it is wrong for us to stop in the middle of a surge, which is having some progress–not as much as we’d like, but some–it is my hope that we’ll recognize that the most important question is “Then what?” What happens if the Reed-Levin amendment becomes law? What happens to our troops? What happens in Iraq? Iran? The morale of our military? The rest of the world, when we can no longer be counted upon as a reliable partner? …History will judge this nation on how it handles this situation. We may in fact walk away, but if we do, we belie the heritage of so many who have sacrificed for us in the past…”
Update 7/18 12:27am Eastern.
Aw, poor Harry Reid is tired. He has just asked for the cloture vote to be scheduled for 11am today. We’re going to have another vote sometime later this morning…another vote not before 5am…
McConnell weighs in…clarifies he wants no other procedural roll call votes before 5am…
Will Harry sleep in one of the cots or in his own comfy bed?
You know, all this hoopla about those damned roll-away beds reminded me of what it’s really like to rough it. Remember?
Update 7/18 12:06am Eastern. Jim Hoft has video clips up, including Joe Lieberman, who said tonight: “Some have said this is the only amendment with teeth- But, who does it bite?… This amendment mandates a retreat no matter what the conditions are on the ground… This is an amendment to embrace defeat in Iraq.”
And you know the photo of Menendez and the Dems’ whiny “LET US VOTE” placard that I just posted? Jim Hoft has already started the Photoshop fun. Fish in a barrel!
Update 11:54pm Eastern. Menendez is still pushing “majority vote for majority rule.” He blasts the Republicans who “want freedom of Iraq” but who are a “tyranny of the minority” here at home.
Nutroots will love that red meat moral equivalence.
Gack.
Menendez: “We want the nightmare to end.” I want this diatribe to end!
11:35pm Eastern. Here’s the placard all the Dems are using as a prop…
Reader David points out how the Democrats now want an “up or down vote” now, but opposed the same request from Bill Frist when he was the majority leader: “‘Just let the Senate vote’ they say now, but they denied that very thing when they were the minority.”
11:28pm Eastern. Menendez is playing the chickenhawk card: “If more members of the Senate had family members in Iraq, blahblahblah.” He has now demanded a “majority vote for majority rule” seven times. (Democrats want a simple majority to move Levin-Reed forward; GOP wants 60-vote threshold. Dems only have 51 votes.) “Majority vote for majority rule.” Again. Another one for the Senate slumber party drinking game. More Menendez: “There must be a date certain…a date certain…the message of this body must be ‘if you won’t bring the troops home, we will.’” The “real challenge” is Iran, he says. A reconstituted al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
And the solution to those would be?
Diplomacy! Diplomacy! Diplomacy!
11:21pm Eastern. Collins is holding up the ISG book again. Is she getting a cut of the royalties or what?
Update 11:08pm Eastern. Susan Collins plugs the Iraq Study Group book. I think this is the third senator I’ve seen do that. If you’re playing a Senate floor slumber party drinking game, add this one to the list.
As for me, I need coffee!
Continuing: Collins wants more “Diplomacy.” Here: Diplomacy, diplomacy, diplomacy!
Update 10:58pm Eastern. Oh, God. Sherrod Brown is playing the armor card, reading his staff’s notes about IEDS and Humvees. He’s stuttering and stumbling. Painful. Bring back Joe. The disingenuous whine of the Dems is “LET US VOTE,” a placard Dem senators keep posing in front of through the night. Which party is in the majority?
10:11pm Eastern. Joe Lieberman explains why he will vote against cloture tomorrow morning. “Will we sustain what is a bedrock policy of the Senate to require 60 votes on a matter of great importance to this body? Particularly a matter where there is a lot at stake. This amendment…is a very serious amendment. Some of us believe it would have disastrous consequences for our troops, the region…”
…“The American military will never lose the war in Iraq…if lost, it will be lost by a lack of political will.”
Update 9:59pm Eastern. Mary Landrieu: “This is not a stunt.” Au contraire.
Speaking of stunts, Landrieu pulls her own floor stunt with her gesticulating about how we should be spending all the money going to the Iraq war on finding Osama bin Laden in Afghanistan.
Uh, which party has the most vocal voices calling for pulling out of Afghanistan? Yeah.
Update 9:40pm Eastern. Sorry, but Lamar Alexander is making me sleepy. Droning about the Hamilton-Baker report. Zzzzzzzzzzz.
Update 9:20pm Eastern. Dianne Feinstein does her monotone body-count monologue. Recycles Lugar. If anyone believes the war has improved our image, “you’re smoking something,” she jibes. Proposes “repairing America’s image” and “engagement” as the solutions to the Iraq war, stopping nuclear proliferation in Iran, and quelling Muslim violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. “I really believe this.” You’re smoking something, DiFi.
Bottom line: She basically writes off Gen. Petraeus and the troops. Senators in the gallery applaud.
Update 9:04pm Eastern. There was a motion to instruct the sergeant-at-arms to require the attendance of absent senators. The motion was rejected: 44-yea, 47-nay. But there is a quorum.
McConnell now on the floor…The troops “deserve our resolve…It’s time to end this charade.”
And here’s an excerpt from Kay Bailey Hutchison’s speech:
“It appears that the basic message is to tell the president to change strategy or to tell the generals what to do or to micromanage the war. All different kinds of messages are being proposed. But the bottom line, Mr. President, is that we cannot tell the Commander in Chief, the President, nor the commander on the ground, General Petraeus, how to do the jobs that we have asked them to do. You know, we heard from General Petraeus what the new strategy would be. I keep hearing people say, we need a new strategy. We need a new plan, a new plan. We’re in a new plan. And yet the United States Senate is saying, when the new plan is just in its infancy, when the surge of 30,000 troops has just been completed within the last two weeks, and yet we’re pulling the rug out from under the new plan.
“We cannot be the greatest country on earth and say, don’t trust us if you’re our ally and don’t fear us if you’re our enemy. And that’s exactly what we would be doing if we leave Iraq because Congress sets a deadline, regardless of what is happening on the ground in Iraq.
“This is about a war on terror and protecting our freedom. This is not about Iraq in a bubble. It is about making sure that we kill terrorism in the world before it ruins everyone’s way of life and takes freedom from everyone.
“This is about making sure that Iraq does not become a stronghold for terrorists. This is to make sure that al Qaeda cannot take over Iraq, terrorize the people as they have done in Afghanistan for years, have the oil revenue that would feed their terrorism and spread it throughout the world. We are fighting al Qaeda in Iraq.
“I met with a group of veterans today who had come back from Iraq. They were so strong and so firm. It was uplifting to talk to them, just as it is uplifting to talk to any of our active duty military. But to talk to those who have had the boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, who really know what’s happening, you just can’t fail to believe that we have to give this a chance, even if the armchair generals back here in Washington have misgivings.
“This is the policy that the United States Senate must stand for and that is to stand for the integrity of America. The integrity of the greatest country on earth, that we will be a formidable enemy and a reliable ally – that we will not flinch when times get tough. It is a legitimate argument about why we got here or when we should have had more troops or how the war has been run up to now. That is legitimate. We can talk about that and it is a legitimate area to debate. But what is not legitimate, Mr. President, is because it is a very tough time that we would say ‘times are too tough, America must leave.’ What kind of honor would that bring on our country and this United States Senate? None. It would not bring honor on this country to cut and run because times are tough.”
***
By the way, earlier this afternoon, the Senate voted on two war-related amendments. (Correction: Dorgan vote was on the 13th) The Cornyn amendment, “to express the sense of the Senate that it is in the national security interest of the United States that Iraq not become a failed state and a safe haven for terrorists,” passed 94-3, with 3 not voting.
The Dorgan amendment, on bringing Osama bin Laden and other leaders of al Qaeda to justice, passed 87-1, with 12 not voting.
***
7:43pm Eastern. I’m about to put my own kids to bed, but thought I’d open up a thread for comments if you’re watching the Senate all-nighter on the Levin-Reed amendment. Here’s the text. Here’s the latest AP dispatch:
Democrats steered the Senate into an attention-grabbing, all-night session to dramatize opposition to the Iraq war but conceded they were unlikely to gain the votes needed to advance troop withdrawal legislation blocked by Republicans.
“Our enemies aren’t threatened by talk-a-thons, and our troops deserve better than publicity stunts,” said Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader.
McConnell and many other Republicans favor waiting until September before considering any changes to the Bush administration’s current policy. They have vowed to block a final vote on the Democrats’ attempt to require a troop withdrawal to begin within 120 days.
“We have no alternative except to keep them in session to explain their obstruction,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.
So far, the legislation has drawn the support of three Republicans, Sens. Gordon Smith of Oregon, Olympia Snowe of Maine and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska.
With a test vote set for Wednesday — capping a day and night of debate — Democratic officials conceded they were likely to get 52 or 53 votes at most. That’s well short of the 60 needed to force a final vote on the measure.
While the issue was momentous — a war now in its fifth year costing more than 3,600 U.S. troops their lives — the proceedings were thick with politics.
MoveOn.org, the anti-war group, announced plans for more than 130 events around the country to coincide with the Senate debate, part of an effort to pressure Republicans into allowing a final vote on the legislation. A candlelight vigil and rally across the street from the Capitol was prominent among them, with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., expected to attend.
More to come…
***
Vets for Freedom rallies in Washington.
Blackfive posts recent remarks by USMC Commandant, General Conway, on the long war.
Here’s a blogger report on Cindy Sheehan’s appearance in Charlotte, N.C. Excerpt:
I counted people. At the highest count, there were about 30 Gathering of Eagles folks, about 40-50 pro-Cindy professionals, about 20 press or people with cameras, and about 10 baseball players.
When Cindy’s entourage arrived (without Cindy), it appeared very, very rehearsed. A group made a long walk around with banners and took up a certain position. Then the hippie sang a song while the entourage sang along. Then a very, very angry man recited a poem. Then there was more singing, then another poem. A muslim spoke. Then more talking.
The group was very odd because they were only addressing themselves. Charlotte has a population of about 630,000 people. It seemed that almost none of them showed up — listening to the interviews, many people said they were from places other than Charlotte.
In case you missed it: Inside the war rooms.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Bill's Bites
- Hot Air » Blog Archive » Our crap politics
- Sister Toldjah » Senate all-nighter quote of the evening: “Our enemies aren’t threatened by talk-a-thons …”
- Don Surber » Blog Archive » ‘Byrd doesn’t give a damn’
- Senate All-Nighter » The American Mind
- What’s good for the goose is good for the gander
- Bill's Bites
- Hoystory » Blog Archive » Doing my duty
- Right Wing News
- Iowa Voice » » The Filibuster Continues
- Senate all nighter seems to be theatrical stunt «
- Jeremy-Gilby-dot-com » Early to Bed - Early to Rise
- Suitably Flip
- Point Five » Senate All Nighter A Hit With The 137 Americans Awake To Notice It
- A Blog For All
- The Senate All Nighter & VH1 | Stuck On Stupid
- Gubatron
- Flopping Aces
- The Baltimore Reporter
- Webloggin - Blog Archive » Breaking - Levin-Reid Amendment Fails as Defeatathon Ends in Flames
- Hyscience
- Ace of Spades HQ
- Rhymes With Right
- From abortion to Iraq: single issue voters… « Cowardly political musings…
- Wake up America-Dems IGNORE Vets from Iraq
- Thoughts Of A Conservative Christian The Senate slumber party–Open thread Update: Liveblogging cont’d–The morning after Update:11:25am Levin-Reed fails to reach 60-vote threshold–52-47; Droopy dog Harry feeds the nutroots; Air America crows Update
- Come On, Joe « Nate Nelson
- shyspeak.net » Blog Archive » Senate Sleepover a Bust
- » Attention All Amnesty Republicans
- The Red America - Today Top Blog Posts from the Conservative Movement - Powered by SocialRank
- FHK SitRep 12.07.07: Live Blogging - Everyone’s Doing It!
- Senate Puts on an All Night Show Calling for Surrender » Blue Star Chronicles
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: Harry Reid, Iraq
Ed Driscoll
» The University Archipelago
Ed Driscoll
» First We Take Chicago, Then We Take BerlinPundit & Pundette
» Westboro haters have enough to go around for everyoneTigerHawk
» Abortion and health care "reform"protein wisdom
» The One note song [Darleen Click]Pundit & Pundette
» Guess what? Hasan frequented strip clubLegal Insurrection
» Pelosi's Abortion Land Mine ExplodesRiehl World View
» Holder Cares About CAIR
I’ll get the popcorn, Is Cindy going to be protesting outside the chamber? Will the Media be cutting away to file footage of Cindy Sheehan? The Dems are getting their cues for National Security and Foreign Policy from someone, who thinks Hugo Chavez is a swell guy.
As soon as someone catches Dingy Harry dozing off, pick him up, chair and all, and carry him out to the nearest dumpster. While you’re at it, catch Teddy, which shouldn’t be hard, and carry him out, too. Wait. You’ll need SEVERAL guys to carry him out. Should’a been done ages ago. Such incredible BS. Major, major B flippin’ S. God help us.
As Patton said: “In war the idea isn’t to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” Thank you to the 3600 for making the ultimate sacrifice for our great nation.
MEANWHILE will this bunch make anything other than fools of themselves tonight??? Hey Teddy, how about addressing what we can do about the 40,000 who lose their lives in car accidents in this country every year?
Ms. Malkin,
I posted the following four hours ago, and I hope it meets your exceptionally high standards!
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/07/17/the-senate-slumber-party-time-to-make-smores/
Now as for this slumber party, picture former prisoner of war John McCain going to Harry Reid and saying, “You know, I was held in captivity, beaten and tortured for six years, but I have never been treated this roughly. I cannot handle staying up this late. I will vote however you want.”
Rumors of Ted Kennedy bringing the vodka jello shooters are unconfirmed at this time.
Since all good slumber parties require Smores, moderate wavering republicans, in keeping with their tradition, will bring the marshmallows. Come to think of it, they will probably bring extra jello as well in case Teddy devours it before reaching the senate floor and devouring them like he does all weaker creatures.
I say this to the democrats in the Senate…develop a spine. No cots allowed. This environment should be more oppressive than Guantanamo Bay, but less oppressive than Junior High School.
We know they will not pass any tough crime measures during this session. If they did, 100 senators would be arrested for loitering.
Coed slumber party! Last one to bed is a rotten Senator!
eric
We’re at war with a complicated enemy. One that has the destruction of Western civilization as its primary strategic goal. We’re in contact with this enemy in Iraq. American Men and Women are engaging them daily and this is the best the United States Senate can come up with. It is a National disgrace. I’d expect better from a Jr. High student council.
I saw a janitor putting sheets on the rollaway beds during a news clip this evening. Can’t the prima donnas in the Senate even put their own sheets on their own beds?
We pay a lot of tax dollars for these pompous aristocrats to hire staffers – can’t they have them change the linens?
Why trouble those poor janitors who probably make a povery wage that even John Edwards would march for.
Where’s the indignation? This is serious business and the Democrats are going to prove it tonight. I will trully have a deep and abiding respect for Mr. Harry Reid and Dick Durbin – both post turtles.
What’s a post turtle? Well I’m glad you asked. Read on. Ms. Pelosi is a good example of one.
While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher, whose hand was caught in a gate while working cattle, the doctor struck up a conversation with the old man.
Eventually the topic got around to Nancy Pelosi and her elevation to speaker of the house. The old rancher said, “Well, ya know, Nancy is a “post turtle’.”
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a “post turtle” was. The old rancher said, “When you’re driving down a country road and you come across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that’s a post turtle.”
The old man saw a puzzled look on the doctor’s face, so he continued to explain.
“You know he didn’t get there by himself; he doesn’t belong there; he doesn’t know what to do while he’s up there; and you just want to help the dumb animal get down.”
MM, thanks for including a link to the Commandant speech.—should be required reading for all members of both houses and MikeB!
We’re in contact with this enemy in the Senate, God help us.
Anyone know if Kennedy has enough booze to make it through the night?
Harry Reid definitely acts and talks like an insomniac.
Anyone know if Kennedy has enough booze to make it through the night?
Yes he has. He also has his Depends handy along with his footed pajamas — so he should be set…
JConrad999 said:
Anyone know if Kennedy has enough booze to make it through the night?”
An aid was spotted bringing in two bottles of gin, so there is a chance that he could just get by on that, but no absolute guarantee.
I checked and he’s also been setup with Viagra and 2 call gir…er assistants. The 2nd assistant is the designated driver. So Teddy should be set for the night.
Bunning voted “Nay”???????
He doesn’t want to bring Al-Qaeda to justice?????? There must be something in the text of that amendment that isn’t right.
(But McConnell voted for it. What’s wrong with the amendment?)
Maybe Bunning and Reid were playing “Truth or Dare”.
I just got an email from Teddy Kennedy. Apparently one of his supporters has a name simular to mine and his name was misspelled so I get the emails.
Dear freind and supporter,
I just want everyone to know that contrary to what some of my very few enemies say I never have more than one drink at a time. Well sometimes one for each hand, but that’s it, never two glasses in each hand, except on special occasions like the arrival of 6PM.
Again thank you for your continuing support, Yours Ted
Someone please pump some oxygen into the building.
I’m glad the leadership of this country finally showed up…Pugluchi and Milk toast…what an improvement since they’ve regained power. I wonder to myself how all the spend thrift repubies still in the senate now feel about earmarks…can we hear from the illustrious senator from Alaska. Was it not he that said “…you’ll pry those earmarks from my overdrawn checkbook”?
Cornyn and Hutchison are my senators. God bless ‘em.
this is tough to watch… can’t wait for the Swimmer to show up.
to quote the Boss…
PUT THIS ON A BUMPER STICKER
What else do they want to hear?
Dang, something like this could kill one of my favorite Dems. Senator Byrd is too old for this. He is only there in spirit anyway, his poor mind checked out years ago. Can’t they let a poor old man get his rest
Okay, before anyone picks on me. I do not agree with the man’s politics, but I do respect the man. He is one of the few who is ‘not’ a millionaire. He actually lives on his Senate salary. He is from a simple backgroud. He carries a copy of the U. S. Constitution in the breast pocket of his jacket, which he often pulls out (well he used to) to correct other Senators. I have to admire that
Other than that, it scares me that the man is ’still’ in the Senate. I met him a few months ago at Walter Reed. No Staff, No Aides, just him in a wheelchair being pushed by an Army Sgt. We chatted briefly. I don’t know if he was drugged, or not, he seemed a little out of it. Though he did introduce himself as Senator Robert Byrd.
K, I’ll shut up now
Better question:
Does Michelle have enough coffee? I fear she will need prozac if she watches the whole thing. Who needs waterboarding when we have an all night torture chamber – the senate chamber.
NOOOOOOOOOOOO – I’ll talk. Anything but that. Not Kennedy – paaaleeeeeezzzz
I am a bit tired of hearing the libs crying about our men in uniform dying in this war. Supporting our troops does not mean keeping them out of harms way. Supporting our troops means giving them what they need to kill.
I may cry for one of them, on hearing the story of how he died but never will cry about the numbers. That is as long as they kill more of the enemy than we lost. The larger the ratio, the happier
I am.
I and all of us should be proud to know that we still have men willing to die for us, and we should support them as best we can.
They do not want us to quit, just because some of them die. To the contrary, they want us to redouble our support and send more men.
Stop the wailing that we need to save our troops, to be at risk is their duty.
Cry when we no longer can field troops that are willing to die for us.
The demoncrats are trying to stop us from fielding our troops, they are traitors to our country.
I am ashamed to call them my countrymen.
Of course the media will spin it to report that Red State America is embracing Cindy Sheehan, which is why she is in Charlotte, and this is putting pressure on Republicans to surrender in Iraq.
The fact that liberals want us to leave Iraq should be reason enough for us to stay there.
zorro said:
this is tough to watch… can’t wait for the Swimmer to show up.”
Zorro: You recognize that famous sign?
Old Man: Si senior. It is a Two.
Zorro: That is a Z!
Old Man: But in the school, that is how they teach my granddaughter to draw a Two.
Zorro: *I* say it is a *Z* – For El Zorro!
Watching Lieberman conclude now.
Excellent comments.
As the Senate debates their sleepover passtime… No Ted. Chanting “Bloody Mary” thirteen times in front of a candlelit mirror will only bring ghosts. (MJK)
To Sen Brown from OH,
You idiot, the troops are protecting us.
We do not protect our troops, we support them with bullets to kill.
QUESTION:
Why does Sen Brown keep his left hand in his pocket?
You still up MM ?
I saw most have thier lab tops tuned to MM’s blog to see what they are suppose to be standing for, and hoping Leatherneck does not write anything on the southern border during a time of war. Ooops.
Dhimmicrats are BAD for America, BAD on the defense of freedom, and on the WRONG side of the fight for justice for all.
Sen Snow (Miss Bipar) is up.
Was she married to the Mr.Rogers?
Michelle, I hope you last longer than Allahpundit, “Thread closed. I’m not in the mood for this crap.”
Allahpundit on July 17, 2007 at 10:23 PM
I will stay as long as the Boss will.
Just gotta know she is with us.
Sleep tight Allahpundit, don’t let the bedbugs bite.
Get out now…We can not win and I say not 1 more American should die for the bum in the White House or these bums in congress. Bring them home and take the fight to them here. It’s only a matter of time, whatever the outcome in Iraq before these animals start blowing stuff up here in the US. As long as the self serving scum in congress continue to vote their power we lose. Were in a no win situation and we should not sacrifice 1 more American ….period
I’d like to see someone on the floor ask how leaving Iraq before they can stand on their own would make our children any safer in the future. This problem like any problem, it won’t go away simple by ignoring it.
The other statement I’d like heard is, history will not remember us for when we left Iraq, but for how Iraq was left.
Drink lots of coffee Michelle, it’s going to be a long night.
Sen Menendez can not seem to understand
that bringing troops home is surrender.
Paint with any color, any brush, any style, or either hand, bringing the troops home being the goal is surrender.
This is pure political theater…its ridiculous.
Michelle, I don’t know why they call you ‘firecracker’. You are definitely a PIT BULL. I mean you won’t let anything get by.
I feel like we are having our own slumber party just reading this blog. I’m glad that you are on my side is all I got to say. America is a better place with people as conscientious as yourself paying attention so much.
If every American paid attention as intently as you do, America would be a better place. Thanks for your blog. Your husband must miss you while you spend the night with the Senate.
I wish the media would focus on the N. Korea development more – but they won’t because it is something that makes Bush look GOOD. N Korea is an area where Clinton failed miserably with his global joke of Madeline Albright (I really hoped she would go away, but she still makes the talking head circuit).
Iraq could make Bush look good, but the left and MSM are determined to lose this war for our soldiers. This stunt is pathetic theater and should be reported as such. But the MSM paints them as ‘doing everything they can’ to ’stop this war’.
It’s amazing how the Senate and the House think that they are collectively ‘Commander in Chief’. They should let the President and the military do their job. I wish they would focus on something they are in charge of such as social security, medicare, border control.
They are wasting everyone’s time with this stunt, and making America look weak.
Thanks for all you do, Michelle.
Never forget what started our war with
the radical islamist. And maybe just islam
itself.
http://www.fdnylodd.com/images/stories/memorial/heroesweb.swf
Sen. Menendez, if more Senators had family members in Iraq, cowardly traitors such as yourself might STFU for a change.
August 1, 1776
When the spirit of liberty, which now animates our hearts and gives success to our arms, is extinct, our numbers will accelerate our ruin and render us easier victims to tyranny. Ye abandoned minions of an infatuated ministry, if peradventure any should yet remain among us, remember that a Warren and Montgomery are numbered among the dead. Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say, What should be the reward of such sacrifices? Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship, and plow, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom–go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!
Samuel Adams (1722-1803)
http://www.nationalcenter.org/SamuelAdams1776.html
A roll call, time to freshen this W/T 101
Hillary voted AYE!
Who is home watching Bill?
My comments on the whole thing are HERE
http://thecitytroll.blogspot.com/2007/07/all-night-surrenderfest-compliments-of.html
Sen KKKbryd should be in lala land by now.
Did he vote on this roll call?
I’m surprised the Dem’s pulled this stunt.
Who would have thought they would let Byrd that close to bed sheets?
/sarc
Yep. *Rubbing eyes.*
Good to know the Boss is still up, never really doubted it though.
This is embarrassing and sad. I’m not talking about the stunt, I am talking about the myopic and disastrous viewpoint being proffered.
So DiFi was wailing about our poor world image? BS! What the world thinks of US is irrelevant! “They” want to destroy US! Our sovereignty and security are what’s at stake! Screw our image! Jeezlouise! Someone slip DiFi a mickey! And a bunch of those other wimps we unfortunately have to call “Senators”…!!!!!!!!!! I so much want to go to the Senate floor and line a bunch of them up and give them an old fashioned Three Stooges “Group Slap”!!!!!!!!! Jeezlouise!!! I’d better stop before I blow a fuse…
Finally, someone that has a clue.
Go Isakson Go.
The sad thing is that a 100% positive verdict on 15SEP still won’t sway these nuts into supporting the effort.
Um, I’ve been timestamping all my updates throughout the night…
The Dhimmicrats should stop asking for a majority vote and go with the majority vote. They’re not going to stop this until they get enough to agree with them whether the majority agrees with them or not. The Dhimmicrats are like a spoiled little kid that throws a temper tantrum until they get their way.
MM,
I know you have been time stamping, I just keep hitting reload button while at the bottom of the blog. Only scroll to the top of the page when the bottom is slow.
WE LOVE YA, never forget that.
You and those like you are the hope of old men like myself.
We feel better knowing you exist, never forget, never retreat, never surrender.
How in the hell can Reid be wanting to go home, Isn’t this his party, what a party pooper.
Well said Dersu!!!
Give ‘em hell, Michelle! It’s about time someone tells it like it is! Talk about a breath of fresh air (hot air???…)…
I posted this over on HA, but I will post it here, too.
I’ve said it before and I will say it again. A bipartisan effort put our troops into combat and a bipartisan effort should -UNCONDITIONALLY- fund their efforts while they are in harm’s way. Argue the politics separately from the funding issue. This is beyond infuriating!
Holding funding back to make a political point while saying they are doing it “in support of our troops” only does one thing…it hurts American troops who are doing what their countrymen told them to do (Democrat and Republican alike).
Michelle is the tree that an old plants, but never expects to sit under its shade.
Michelle is the tree that an old man plants, but never expects to sit under its shade.
EDITED, sorry but it is late!
the democrats love and care for our troops and our nation the same way Ike loved and cared for Tina.
I couldn’t agree with you more PBoilermaker , I liken it to working all week then, waiting to see if you’re going to get paid on pay day. You’re done your job the best you can, and then you have to wait while your bosses discuss whether they are going to pay you or not.
Nice to see our tax dollars at work.
I wanna job like this, sleepovers, gossip, marshmallows, beer, scratching,….
Coburn is making sense about the funding and its priority, but it is sad that he is apparently one of the few.
S U P P O R T O U R T R O O P S !!!!
Here’s my photoshop of that Menendez placard…
Well Gee.. this is going to go on and on, what part of ‘we cannot surrender’ is it that the Dems cannot get a grip on?
Dems only care for our troops is their use as pawns in their political games.
KCtheKat, that happened to the military in the late 70s. Dems said they were not going to pay us. They did however offer a message that we could send to all of our anti-military creditors. Basically stated, due to their inability to agree on a defense budget, we were not going to be paid. Now, ask me how Iran knew they could get away with taking the hostages.
Well, I have to get up at O-dark thirty for work. Nite all
MM,
email sent to gmail account
The Vietnam connection only shows how little they know about Islam. Islam predates Vietnam by about 1200 years. The history of Islam speak volumes. Maybe Harkin should do a little history research. Oh look there’s that “Let us Vote” sign again. How about “Let us Learn from History” or “Let History not repeat”. God if go to sleep know I’m going to have nightmares.
Here’s anotherphotoshop of that placard
Why do I have this image of our hostess being found by her family in the morning, surrounded by discarded Red Bull cans and half-full tins of coffee that look as if someone was eating the contents by the handful?
As her children rush to her side, crying and wondering what had happened to her, she’ll slowly turn and say, MOMMY WAS WORKING!!! COLLEGE ISN’T GOING TO PAY FOR ITSELF!!! YOU WANT A MOMMMY WHO’S CONTENT TO LET OTHERS PROVIDE FOR YOU? GO TO MICHAEL MOORE’S PLACE!!!!
(I keed…I keed…)
Seriously, though, I plan on reading the recaps in the morning and your sacrifice reminds me of the critics who say, “We suffer so you don’t have to.” Huzzah!!!
Nice photoshop, UglyAmerican!…for some reason those Dems have an un-natural fear of bunnies…Somewhere Carter is checking over his shoulder…
Couldn’t Hardin read letters from soldiers who are proud of the things they’ve achieved and how glad they are to have reenlisted, just as easily as he can read letters from lonely soldier family members? He’s cherry picking to express his opinion without any real facts of figures to reinforce his belief. His statement is pointless. This sucks, NEXT!
Here’s my photoshop of that placard
Now, Thune knows how to define the Clear and Present danger we are facing and our troops are fighting. And he can pronouce Al-Qaeda.
Thune is good to go.
Thune is a breath of fresh air, and may be what we need in our future.
My prayer:
God please give us leaders that will save our nation. God we know you let a drop of water fall to this side or that, but you decide where the river flows. God,lead us to that place which You have for us.
Oh, Oh OMG, Thune knows history, researches his subject and how to apply it in proper context. Now he’s quoting from the soldier first hand experience, he’s a soldiers politician and a citizen advocate. South Dakota should be proud of him.
Howard Dean’s just-in-time slumber party prescription – please note at the very end that he’s an M.D.:
It’s going to be a long night for the U.S. Senate.
Senate Republicans are threatening to filibuster a bill by Senators Levin and Reed that would require President Bush to begin troop withdrawal within 120 days, with most coming home by April 2008.
But Senator Majority Leader Reid has decided that he’s not going to let them just make a threat and walk away — he’s going to make them stand up in front of the American people and show them just how much they want to stay in Iraq. A few Republicans have started to say the right things, but we don’t know whether they actually have the backbone to stand with the American people and vote the right way, and the threat of a filibuster gives them all the cover they need.
Now, let’s not kid ourselves: they can filibuster, and we probably won’t have the votes to stop them. But if Senate Republicans are against ending the war, then they should show it by voting against the legislation — a straight-up-and-down vote on a bill that the majority of Americans support. That’s how a democratic government works.
Instead, they’re threatening to block the vote, and we’re going to force them to explain themselves in front of the American people.
So let’s show Senator Reid that we’re united behind him. We’ve created a simple tool that will let you write a letter and fax it to your Senators instantly — you can let them know all night long just how much opposition there is to the war in Iraq.
Send your Senators a message right now:
http://www.democrats.org/IraqObstruction
A handful of Republicans loyal to President Bush plan to block the bill even though a similar version passed in the House by a 223-201 margin last week. Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that we need to give the troop escalation time because it is just beginning to “show signs of military success.” But how many times have we heard something like that in the last five years?
As Senator Reid said yesterday:
“Republicans are using a filibuster to block us from even voting on an amendment that could bring the war to a responsible end. They are protecting the President rather than protecting our troops.
“They are denying us an up or down — yes or no — vote on the most important issue our country faces.
“I would like to inform the Republican leadership and all my colleagues that we have no intention of backing down.”
Tell your Senator that you’re not going to back down either:
http://www.democrats.org/IraqObstruction
Since the American people put Democrats back in charge of Congress, the Republican minority has resorted to obstructionism and political games to block any responsible progress toward ending the war in Iraq. Now they’re refusing to even allow a vote on bringing the troops home.
For the first six years of George Bush’s presidency, the Republican majority in Congress failed this country. They had their chance to make their case to continue the war in Iraq, and the American people didn’t buy it.
Now it’s your chance to make the case. Tell your Senators to pass the Levin-Reed amendment and bring the troops home:
http://www.democrats.org/IraqObstruction
Thanks for all that you do,
Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.
Entelechy that’s nice, but who do we contact if we don’t want and to cut and run?
“When you wear the uniform in country and talk to fellow soldiers about what they REALLY think, other than the 19 year olds in their first year, they tell you straight out this is a big charly foxtrot.
The same guys of course MUST have a different response to those not ‘In the club.’”
- The Man with No Name
Listen to Mr. Reid’s Democrats all night, you won’t hear them say things like:
“The cost of freedom is always high, but Americans have always paid it. And one path we shall never choose, and that is the path of surrender, or submission.”
or like…
“Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of liberty.”
But it may occur to you that…
“There will always be dissident voices heard in the land, expressing opposition without alternatives, finding fault but never favor, perceiving gloom on every side and seeking influence without responsibility.”
These three quotations are the words of John F. Kennedy. The third is from a speech prepared for Dallas, 11-22-1963, but never delivered.
This is not your father’s Democrat Party.
The current surge strategy as designed by Freddy Kagan in the American Enterprise Institute is designed to buy time for the Iraqi government to stand on its own; to pass reconciliation legislation amongst the Sunni/Shia/Kurd as well as sharing oil revenues; the same Iraqi government that plans to take the entire month of August off because it is “too hot” and they are “tired” and continues dithering governing their own sovereign country while America does its heavy lifting.
The threat to America is AQ (The real AQ, not AQ of Mesopotamia, aka AQ in Iraq, aka AQI). America must refocus its efforts on capturing and destroying AQ, not the impossible dream of nation building between Shiites and Sunnis in Iraq.
Thune kicked Traitor Webb in the teeth.
We know who the traitors are and we will never forget you.
I think we lost Michelle after Cantwell. Her pink dress must of put Michelle a sleep.
The Boss never sleeps, think so at your own peril.
Nah, there just wasn’t anything to say about Cantwell. Her hair looked shiny. Guess the Senate hairstylist worked overtime.
Michelle’s still alive and kicking, She’s a trooper til the end.
Sen Snow (Miss Bipar) woke up.
The Founders proposed a constitutional government dependent on strong debate, and even gridlock, should one party to that debate undertake to infringe upon the liberties of the people by expanding the limited role of the central government as established by our Constitution. They intended to make the conservation of our Constitution’s prescription for limited government paramount, and any contravention of that prescription a deliberate and contentious process. Unfortunately, since FDR’s New Deal, when Americans were divided up into constituencies and encouraged to vote themselves largess from the federal treasury, gridlock has failed to stem, with a few exceptions, the erosion of liberty and the unmitigated growth of the central government.
FROM:
http://patriotpost.us/alexander/edition.asp?id=117
Thus, the most prevalent and immediate danger to our liberty is not “gridlock” but this notion of bipartisanship. In the absence of strong debate among parties with broadly divergent views, liberty and free enterprise suffer great peril. The call for bipartisanship would be answered wisely with great skepticism.
Congress does not seem interested in tracking what I am doing minute by minute, so I am returning the lack of courtesy. I am working on my blog, so unlike them, my time is productive.
Letterman just had a great line about the new Osama video…”There was incoherent ranting, lots of anger…oh no wait, that was Rosie O’Donnell’s blog.”
Goodnight Ms. Malkin. If I do not get a phone call or an emergency page from you while I am sleeping, I will assume congress stayed the course. Unlike the War on Terror, staying the course for democrats means accomplishing nothing.
Good night.
eric
http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
“Update 7/18 1:56am. John McCain–seems a little groggy–weighs in to remind the Senate about progress in Ramadi and Fallujah (Whack a mole. “We” whack them here, they go there. Why doesn’t he talk about other places in Iraq?). Muddled about immigration, but clear-thinking about the war (Muddled about immigration, bollixed up about Iraq). Thune resumes. “I believe Gen. Petraeus will be very candid in September…I think we should give him and the troops a chance to succeed.” (Even Mr Clean can not weave gold from straw)“
MM,
Do yourself no harm, we need you on the morrow.
Go get your rest, we will stand in your steed.
The battle will be joined later, this night is for bluster.
Lovingly your servant,
Dersu
Do you ever wonder if our enemies watch this stuff and say to themselves. Are they going to surrender or not?