“KILLITARY” and the Daily Kos Update: Who is “liquidman?” Update: Kos is “alarmed”
Update 3:28pm Eastern. Noel Sheppard notes that Markos is alarmed and trying to control the inmates in the Daily Kos asylum:
“With us or against us”
by kosMon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:30:19 AM PDT
There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues.
Yes, there’s the impeachment stuff, but this nasty rhetoric is also rampant in the primary war diaries.
This points to a serious breakdown not just on civility, but in the ability of people to properly debate various issues. As such, it presents a serious threat to the integrity of this site.
I much prefer it when the community moderates itself, and for the most part it does a good job of this. The libertarian in me prefers it that way. But sometimes, self-moderation isn’t enough. I’ll act swiftly and mercilessly when I’m pushed into defending the effectiveness of this site. And at this moment, my patience is wearing thin.
Reasonable people, including progressives, can disagree on many of the big issues we face today — from which candidate to support in the primary, to whether impeachment is the best way to hold this administration accountable, to the merit of gun control or free trade agreements, to how to handle immigration, to whatever else faces our nation. As a site, we strive to provide a safe haven for debate on these matters without it getting — as has happened of late — so damn ugly.
Good luck. You can always say, “Screw them.”
Update 3:22Eastern: The hate continues. Charles at LGF points to another Kos diarist, who writes about the troops: “do I still support the individual men and women who have given so much to serve their country? No. I think they’re a bunch of idiots. I also think they’re morally retarded.”
The diarist is none other than former SNL’er A. Whitney Brown. Here’s the vid.
Yep. That’s your nutroots base, Hillary, Barack, and John. Embrace the hate.
***
I have a blog category called “They don’t support the troops.” I had a chapter in my last book, “Unhinged,” with the same name. Both are filled with countless ugly stories of anti-military bile from the left. My friend Lt. Col. Buzz Patterson has a new book out, “War Crimes: The Left’s Campaign to Destroy Our Military and Lose the War on Terror” exhaustively detailing this same enmity towards the military. There are regular outbreaks of troop-bashing every week in some corner of the liberal universe. Last week, it was Ted Rall.
Now, we have this from the Daily Kos (via Ace and LGF):
The diary has now been deleted. It was cross-posted here and now that post has also been deleted. Ace had a correspondent who was able to save and capture the post’s text. Here’s the intro:
KILLITARY: Are America’s Armed Forces Creating Serial Killers and Mass Murderers?
This article in no way is meant to suggest that all miltary members will become serial killers or mass murderers. It does point out a serious problem with what is happening in our armed forces and seeks a solution to help the brave men and women on their return back home.
According to the July 30, 2007 issue of The Nation magazine, damning photos of a U.S. Soldier using a spoon to literally scoop out the brains of a dead Iraqi and pretending to eat the gray matter were recently acquired.
Of course, everyone is appropriately appalled and make all claims of disgust and finger-wagging. Research shows, however, that such unacceptable behavior happens more often than the United States military wants you to know.
When it comes to training killing machines, the military really does create “an Army of one.”
The list of serial killers and mass murderers borne from the military is astounding.
Update: Who is “liquidman,” the author of the deleted dKos diary?
The Google cache version of “liquidman’s” post points to “Corey Mitchell:”
***
Gee, do you think anyone will ask the Democrat candidates who will be attending the Yearly Kos convention (Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson and Chris Dodd) about this during the CNN/YouTube debate tonight?
How about asking the candidates when they attend the Yearly Kos event? Here’s the link the question form:
Here’s Hillary’s blog. Ask her.
Here’s Obama’s blog. Ask him.
And here’s a question form at John Edwards’ blog. Ask him.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- KILLITARY: Leftist disdain for our troops - Now you see it, now you don’t « Volunteer Opinion Journal
- CNN/YouTube Debate - Gimmick or not? « Volunteer Opinion Journal
- Right Wing Nut House » LOVIN’ THE WAR AND HATIN’ THE MILITARY…OR IS IT T’OTHER WAY AROUND?
- Bill's Bites
- politicalpartypoop.com » Blog Archive » Busted: Fifth Column “Kilitary”
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation : Weblogs
- Lefty-Liberals Loathe Our Troops (and Likewise) « TMQ2
- LGF Vs. Daily Kos « ChenZhen’s Chamber
- On Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs « Toms FlashBacks
- Wake up America
- Iowa Voice » » I Love The Sound Of Reality Crashing In On These People
- I Love The Sound Of Reality Crashing In On These People at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.
- NoisyRoom.net » Blog Archive » Noisy News Around the Web - 07/23/2007…
- Iowa Voice » » Not The Same Thing
- Mudville Gazette
- Not The Same Thing at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation · Articles
- Michelle Malkin » Daily Kos diarist: Still thinks troops are “morally retarded”
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation · New York Articles
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Categories: Kos, They don't support the troops
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If those are the roots, I don’t want to see the tree that grows from it.
Hmm, let get this straight, is MM saying just because some military people are mass murderers, doesn’t make all of them such. Agreed. Why not apply that same reasoning to illegal aliens and Muslims.
Unlike WWII, most Americans do not personally know a member of the military, much less claim one in their family. Thus it is easy to spread this kind of bile, especially among those who are eager to hear it.
MikeB, +1000
DailyKos is still a joke. They don’t speak for me.
MikeB, how often do you actually READ this blog? Michelle has quite often applauded the moderate Muslims who stand up to the terrorists.
Why are we invited to script the Democrats “Sister Souljah” moment for them? Let them find it for themselves.
Are you this dense on purpose or does it just come naturally to you? Michelle has never said all muslims were terrorists. However, you are right about one thing. She has ALWAYS called all ILLEGAL aliens ILLEGAL ALIENS. Why? Because that’s what they are skippy! There are not separate categories of illegal. Either you are, or you aren’t. No gray areas. Do us all a favor and see if you can make your way to Wally-World and buy yourself a clue or two.
>rant off
Now, as far as the article on Kos is concerned, this is typical of them. They can’t ever shed a good light on the military. So to them all I can say is, when there jihadists are ambling down the street to say hello to you with their beheading swords drawn and at the ready, call a hippie.
Once again I’m stunned by the audacity of people whose First Amendment rights were won by those willing to serve. Liquidman might also want to do his homework before “educating” the masses. Timothy McVeigh was no “army of one,” and his Arab ties can be read about in Jayna Davis’ The Third Terrorist. It is very likely that instead the military gave Mr. McVeigh an opportunity to turn his life around.
These are people who are proud to say they represent the “mainstream” of the Democratic party and get all testy if you beg to differ.
Are there any rational Democrats left who will condemn these irrational haters? Will the candidates still show up at the Kos shindig?
This should be a wake up call to Democrats in Congress. This is where your embrace of the netroots is going to cost you dearly. Maybe if they think their political lives are on the line, they’ll distance themselves from these nutcases.
I almost want to thank Kos.
He provides a valuable service for us by letting the new democrat mainstream speak for itself, in its own words.
Too many democrats are unaware of what’s happened to their once-great party.
The Daily Kos is reporting what the Nation Magazine has published in their 7/30/07 edition. That being the case, shouldn’t the Nation Magazine be taken to task? Yes, the way Kos has characterized the issue, as ‘killitary,’ is over the top. But, both should recieve rebuke.
And, as for that last line about serial killers being astounding, the list of good positive and productive citizens contributing to the betterment of their communities is far more astounding, and way longer, no doubt in geometric proportions.
His site also has graphic link to In Cold Blog, where it was also posted.
I would go to Hillary’s, Obama’s, Edwards, and KosCon’s question link, but I really, really don’t want that kind of crap in my browser history…
Kowboy, I respectfully disagree that MM is so careful not to lump all Muslims and/or illegals together.
From seeing her on TV or reading her posts, she does tend to make blanket statements. For example, on Fox last Friday, discussing the “John Doe” act, she specifically made a point of distinguishing Orthodox Jews acting suspect and Muslims doing the same. She said there’s one group who are terrorists. That is, in MM’s view the John Doe Act is only for pointing out Muslim’s suspect behavior no one elses.
The bottom line: MM is a partisan right winger. She repeatedly targets/point out bad behavior in certain groups–aliens and Muslims, but barely mentions illegal activities when committed by military officials and the Bush administration.
Well, I respectfully disagree with you on your point about muslims. Michelle has stated several different times that she does not believe all muslims are terrorists.
However, we will just have to keep disagreeing, no matter what you say, about illegals. There are no sub categories here. Illegals are just that, illegal. They have no right to be here and should be deported as soon as they are apprehended. What is so hard to grasp about that concept?
Kowboy, On illegal aliens: Yes, overstaying one’s Visa or sneaking across the border are illegal acts. But, that’s not what Michelle says. Whenever an illegal is found to have committed a serious crime, she likes to say these are not “people doing jobs American’s won’t” or “hard working”, etc. as if NO illegal alien is hard working or doing jobs Americans won’t do and in fact all are determined to come into the US to murder or rape or molest children. In fact, the crime rates for first generation illegal aliens is lower than the population at large. This is a fact, crime rates in immigrant neighborhoods (with a mix of legals and illegals) is lower than non-immigrant areas. Funny, MM never acknowledges this, then again she is not interested in finding the truth, only in pushing her position.
Mike your dancing all around the issue, which is that they are ILLEGAL. It doesn’t matter to me if they go to church every Sunday and serve dinner in homeless shelters in their spare time. They are still ILLEGAL. They should not be here. Period.
I hope they keep this in mind the next time they need help from the military, for say, I dunno, maybe an earthquake in San Francisco.
When the gas and water lines are broke, the power is out and looters are on the rampage in the bay area, I hope they call Code Pink. That would be a much better solution than bringing in a bunch of serial killers to restore order.
Sarc off/
Funny, aren’t you doing what you claim Michelle is doing?
Someone’s pushing a BS position and it isn’t Michelle.
Don’t ever question the Left’s continued lack of support for the military, though. Right?
Being “pro-military” comes with a price. Please read:
Remember in Rosemary’s Baby when she realizes that by dumping a bag of Scrabble tiles onto the floor and rearranging the letters of the name of her elderly, sweet neighbor it turns out he was really a pawn of Satan who conjures the Evil One to impregnate a human and otherwise herald the End of Times? It might be a little like that. Only far more more terrible. Because it’s real.
And I know I sound, oh, alarmist and my right wing friends will snort derisively at the sight of my white knees knocking together accompanied by the sounds of a cartoon xylophone, but it really appears that quite soon this country will be very different from the one our parents grew up in. In fact, very different from what was envisioned by those who founded it.
And that change won’t come in a blur of brown shirts. It will come with tiny American flags pinned to lapels. It will come with the stern glare of a caring, protective Father and the vacant, soothing touch of a passive, cowed Mother.
It will come while we dither and dote on idols, models and morals. It will come because those that endorse its coming are everything George Orwell said they are and everything the Bible says they are: sheep who make way for the rise of the big brothers, the false prophets and the anti-Christs.
And the assembled facts say the infrastructure for this change has already been laid right in front of our chewing mouths and glassy eyes and “oh-you’re-just-another-mincing-liberal-it-could-never-happen-here!!” attitudes, its crystalline structure expanding—doubling and doubling again—to create the perfect environment for a capitalist/fascist regime to thrive and that’s not being alarmist and here are the pieces. Let’s spill them onto the floor:
a wall to keep out “immigrants and terrorists”;
surveillance cameras on every corner;
an ideologically aligned Supreme Court;
a president who signs statements nullifying the legislation that has just passed;
a television-dependent, consumer-obsessed population;
the concentration of information outlets under a single authority;
the marginalization of the middle class and the busting of unions;
the suspension of habeas corpus;
denying the people access to information about government activity by asserting “executive privilege”;
the blurring of the lines between science and religion;
a faceless, terrifying enemy;
a unilaterally prosecuted War Without End.
Taken at their face, these are disparate elements, each one of them brought into being through reasonably articulate agents, trumpeted within hallowed and respected institutions. And each of them has come under fire as deeply flawed, inefficient or plain weird.
But spill those tiles onto the floor. Put them all together. See what they spell.
MM and all of you are all too willing to give ignore all the above facts.
OK, let’s back down just a smidge. Kos deleted the diary. Whatever we think of Kos, that they found this beyond the pale should be commended.
Commended? How do we know they considered it “beyond the pale”? Perhaps it was removed for strategic political reasons. Bottom line, it showed up in the first place and that is the big point here.
Cue circus music…
mikeb said….
“She said there’s one group who are terrorists. That is, in MM’s view the John Doe Act is only for pointing out Muslim’s suspect behavior no one elses”
You Sir are incredibly wrong here, when you’re posting such drivel I hope you have on hip wader’s.
Nah, if this were just even a year or two ago, that diary would have stayed up. Kos has been trying to tamp this moonbattery down because if it goes public in a big way, it’ll cause severe problems.
They had to crack down on Truther posts a while ago. They used to just bury them, but Kos knows that the true nature of the Nutroots must stay hidden from the public eye.
Libel is fun, huh?
Interesting how Michelle posts something as vile as this story and gets attacked for something completely off topic. I am sure she is quite used to it but it sure bugs me.
On topic: aiding and abetting comes to mind. There is not limit to the liberal skank. To that end I give you (during a time of war no less): Liberal Democratic Sen. Russ Feingold said Sunday he wants Congress to censure President Bush for his management of the Iraq war and his “assault” against the Constitution.
And just ‘cause I want to do my Gerald-ino shot: Apologize Michelle – LOL!
Hey, no matter what others think Michelle, most of us here love you and think you are doing a tremendous job. GOD Bless!
More required reading, from an ex-Marine:
Until now I’ve been willing to sit on the sideline and listen to both sides of an argument that continues to snowball in the direction of people who agree that our Iraq policy has done more harm than good to the interests of the US and Iraq. I’m an ex-Marine who initially supported our efforts to overthrow a dangerous, rogue regime that I believed, based on the cherry-picked intelligence presented, was a clear and present danger to the United States. Regardless of the justification, I now believe that this administration’s arrogant, amateurish, ham-handed post-war occupation ruined our best chance for success (which was approximately five years ago) and that we are merely postponing the inevitable as we continue to make the United States a more desirable target for Islamic terrorists everywhere, not to mention the monstrous carnage we have and will continue to visit upon a majority of Iraqis.
With desperation on full display, Kristol’s latest and most pointed accusation that anyone with a reasoned objection to that policy is a cut and run coward who is backstabbing our troops finally sent me over the edge. I love my country and am under no illusion that the freedoms it provides me are cost-free but if either of my children told me they wanted to enter the military now I would literally beg them not to do it … that’s how little I trust this administration.
I’d take this opportunity to point out the cowardice it takes for a serial supporter of this administration’s failed strategies to hide behind the sacrifices of our soldiers while using it as an argument for more of the same (let’s “surge” the troops while we piss on the findings of the Iraqi Study Group), and even though his latest rantings will probably do his cause more harm than good I still won’t stand by and allow myself to be insulted for expecting as much of my country’s leadership as they expect of those they lead. I’m sure you hear this general sentiment, much more eloquently stated, a hundred times a day but I still want to add my voice to growing tide that will hopefully wash away the disgrace that this adminstration and its current batch of shameless supporters have brought on this country.
Normally, writing of this caliber is accompanied by a complimentary package of crayons.
Kristol = Malkin = Hannity = Limbaugh = Cowards who hide behind the sacrifices of our troops while arguing for more failed policies.
I think what you mean is, “They got caught saying what they really think, and wanted to bury the evidence.”
Nikita Kruschev once said, “If a man thrusts a bayonet into the darkness and hits mush, he keeps pushing. If he hits steel, he pulls back.”
This is the operating principle behind a lot of the intemperate posts we see on lefty blogs and intemperate statements made by lefty politicians. It isn’t that they didn’t mean what they said, they just don’t like being held accountable for it.
If people hadn’t exposed the “Killitary” post for scutiny by non-KOS readership – if it had hit mush, in other words – it’d still be there right now. Just like if John Kerry hadn’t been exposed to the public for his “Stuck in Iraq” freudian slip, he never would have felt any need to try to “nuance” it later.
Being a lefty requires a state of perpetually arrested adolescence. And one of the hallmarks of the adolescent is the willingness to mouth off about everything, but to take responsibility for nothing.
Far from being a commendable act, the taking down of the offensive post was an act of cowardice. The sentiments of that “diarist” are reflective of what many KOS readers believe; but rather than having the courage of their repulsive convictions, they run away when called on them.
Kent: See #31.
MikeB can hijack a thread better than I could dream – and I thought I was bad.
MikeB in your praise of illegal aliens who mainly want entitlement programs from the government (read – your and my tax dollars), you neglect to admit that SOME of them deserve to be DEPORTED. That is what MM is preaching. Those that have committed heinous crimes in the US who are also ILLEGAL ALIENS should be deported. MM reports there are 600,000 in the US awaiting their deportation who will likely never be deported because of blanket defenses of the entire population from people like yourself.
YOU WANT to grant everyone here illegally citizenship. WHY do they deserve it? Do you believe it is their ‘right’? Rights from our government only apply to CITIZENS. Why do they get the right, but not those who didn’t have the means to break our laws to get here but would be just as law abiding and want to be American as those who are here illegally?
Why can’t we go to every country, ask ‘who wants to be American’ and just give them citizenship? Does citizenship mean ANYTHING but where you are physically located?
And if you are for things like generally amnesty to all who are just here, would you be for our conquest of Mexico and Latin America to impose citizenship on them with our military? Your logic doesn’t work both ways.
As to the anti-military people. FREE SPEECH may well be the doom of this country. I am certain that there are NON-CITIZENS around the world who LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND OUR SOLDIERS much more than a LOT of citizens here on the left.
I have been told that Phillipino women (not implying anything about MM’s heritage because I don’t know what her heritage is) would love to get citizenship in the US because they think the USA is paradise. I was told this by a man living in Hong Kong who married a phillipino. He suggested I look there for good women who love America as a companion/spouse.
Anyway, I used to be against a flag burning amendment – recently seeing this stuff from the left makes me for it. Free speech is wonderful, but when you commit treason with your free speech and incite hatred and violence to this GREAT nation and it’s HEROIC soldiers, you should be punished.
Sorry for the length, I got riled up.
“There’s no there there.”
— Gertrude Stein
Thacker, I agree with MM, et al., who want to deport illegals who commit serious crimes–no one is for that. It is the way she presents the issue that is not so subtle, as I pointed out. As far as the First Amendment, what makes the US a great and better country than say Iraq or Iran or Saudi Arabia or North Korea is that we can go out and say anything we want about the U.S. and it is not illegal to be anti-Bush, anti-US, anti-religion, anti-God, or anti-anything else and express those thoughts.
correction to #36, I meant no one is against deporting illegal alien felons.
MM’s home address and photo were put out on nutroot blogs after she criticized them for trashing military recruitment centers. She did not back down. I hardly call that cowardly.
To No One In Particular … BUT …
1.) If all these illegal aliens are so poor and destitute in their countries of origin? …
2.) And they are doing all of these poor paying jobs that we Americans won’t do? …
Where do they come up with the $5-10K they pay the Coyotes to bring them here?
Simple math says they would need at least a year on these jobs to recover what they spent to get here in the first place …
So just how far would those thousands of dollars gone to support their families back where they started?
Just thought I would ask …
Kimmer, MM did not put her home address on her posts, someone else did. That was wrong but so her habit of doing so. It doesn’t take much courage to have someone do something wrong to you. The point is don’t pretend that all troops support Bush’s (and the above named chicken hawks) failed policies–a majority of military families DO NOT.
Desert Lover,
They must get the money from the good ole illegals that are here.
Seems to be – everytime I go into a local PO, they are standing in line sending MOs to Mexico….ticket funds – I assume.
Question for MIKE B
Why are you hanging around this site?
I would think you’d rather be on CNN or some other liberal blog.
Don’t give me the speech, ” I have a right to be where I want to be”….We know that. Just seems odd that you like hanging out with Convervatives.
Are you spying???????? LOL!
No Gayle, I just don’t see the point of preaching to the choir. Isn’t great to have debates instead of “great point MM”; “well put MM”; “MM you are just so smart.”
Wow…
I think I just earned myself a vacation.
MikeB hijacks thread.
Then equates supporting our troops to the end of the world via some wacked out horror movie I never saw.
And the real winner is #37… ‘No one is against deporting illegal alien felons’. errr.. WTF.. has he read ANYTHING in the last 6 months.
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/07/16/showdown-in-waukegan-open-borders-lobby-protests-program-to-deport-criminal-aliens/
If no one is against deporting illegal alien felons then why is ANYONE fighting against 287(g)????
You are a lawyer.
My husband is a Marine.
I’d trust him and ANY of his brethren over ANY of yours.
I like it better when I disagree with someone. I agree with MikeB on that point. It helps my debating skills.
However, this thread was about the anti-military. YOU turned it into a illegal alien thread. That is not appropriate. Not saying I haven’t done the same, but I wasn’t right when I did it either.
Stick to the comments on those who preach against our military. There are plenty of threads dealing with illegal aliens for your debate there.
Where’s the cite for that statement, out of curiosity?
So if we surrender and leave Iraq like Hillary wants who will be committing the genocide that Obama says isn’t a good enough reason to stay?
When you can’t think clear enough to figure out who is doing the killing and who is doing the dying you need to sit down and keep your yap shut.
No kidding. That posting was so shrilly hysterical and overwrought, it read like something filched from the lesser portion of Stan Lee’s oeuvre.
gayle
I hear ya … I recently had someone that I had loaned some money to that wanted to wire it back to me using Western Union … guess what … because of where I live (AZ) he was told there was a limit to how much he could wire to my state … and that limit was per month … yet I see individuals standing at the Western Union kiosk in the grocery stores sending thousands at a time to Mexico … so what’s with that?
As for this starting out as the anti-military thread … sorry it digressed thanks to a few going off subject … as for me … I think everyone already knows where I stand on the military issue … I am still holding back so far today on responding to some of those posts …
3steps said:
And the real winner is #37… ‘No one is against deporting illegal alien felons’. errr.. WTF.. has he read ANYTHING in the last 6 months.
LOL, Yeah I about fell off my chair when I read that one….roflmao
mikeb, get some electricity in you’re cave.
Every Marine I’ve ever had the honor of knowing strongly rejects the term “EX-Marine”. Once a Marine, always a Marine, they say with a smile. They are pretty serious about the “Semper” in “Semper Fi”.
Marines out there? Do I have this wrong?
davidleerothmann
No disagreement from this Marine.
Semper Fi – Do or Die
We used to say the difficult tasks we do right away … The impossible ones just takes a little longer …
NeoCon News, see below:
Military Support for War Dropping? (Updated)
By Noah Shachtman July 18, 2007 | 9:30:00 AMCategories: Politricks
Are military families, vets, and active duty servicemembers just as sick of the Iraq war as the rest of the country? My old bosses at Military.com ran an online poll the other day, and found that 59% of the 5440 respondents wanted U.S. troops out of Iraq by the end of next year.
The poll wasn’t scientific, so it’d be a mistake to make too much of the numbers. But it seems to track, at least loosely, to what other military surveys have found. The broader public mood is even more sour, with 71% pushing for an Iraq pullout in ten months.
White House spokesman Tony Snow, among others, blames this all of this on the media coverage of the war. Military.com’s Ward Carroll has a deft response.
I am Navy, but yes, Marines who leave service are considered “former” Marines. The term “ex-Marine” is reserved for those who shamed themselves and their USMC service(dishonorable discharge, criminal offenses, etc).
Yes, Marines are very serious about ex vs former.
In other words, then: useless.
Kent, not useless to lefties.
ANYONE can respond to polls and such on Military.com as on many other sites … so those poll results mean absolutely nothing … even a poll conducted by one of the professional polling companies can be invalid if the questions are misleading or unclear or slanted by the options given with which to respond … so polls are not what the MSM and others would have you believe … how many of you have ever been part of a national poll?
My error. I’ll rephrase: “useless to sane and sentient beings.”
Thank god Mike B isn’t in charge of the War on Terror and Homeland Security! We’d all be waiting for our next call to prayer. Even with all of Bush’s foul-ups, I’d rather Bush in charge than someone waving the white flag. From the comments I could stomach to read, basically it seems Mike’s big battle is political correctness which is of little concern during wartime.
You’re good to go, no worries.
One can utilize polls to support any position out there. Like Desertlover said, it just depends on the randomness of the sample and the way the questions are worded. Further, you can influence said polls by distorting facts to the public in the first place. In that regard, Tony Snow is right.
More proof:
Even in Families Sworn to Duty, Misgivings Arise as War Goes On
*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information. July 15, 2007, Sunday
By IAN URBINA (NYT); National Desk
Late Edition – Final, Section A, Page 1, Column , 1483 words
DISPLAYING ABSTRACT – April Ponce De Leon describes herself and her husband as ”gung-ho marines,” and in two weeks she deploys to Iraq, where her husband has been fighting since March. But she says she stopped believing in the war last month after a telephone conversation with him. ”He started telling me …
Yes, that’s right, the majority of military families are anti-war. Don’t forget, chicken hawks can’t handle the truth.
Proof of what, that the US Armed Services aren’t 100% homogenous as far as personal opinion is concerned?
Awesome proof…you’re on a roll. You haven’t insulted Michelle in a few posts, though, so you might want to get on that.
#61 Mikey B
A linky thingy would be nice. Can I go read for myself?
If you reread my post, I did NOT claim as you seem to infer that she posted her address and home photo herself. It was done to her. My point is this: MM, as a woman, wife, and mother, did not back down from what could have been a threat to her safety. She fought back. That is courage.
As for most military families not supporting the president, as asked above, where is your evidence? From Kos? If the question is: do most military families want their loved ones brought home–well, duh, that goes without saying. Everyone wants their loved ones home. My daughter wanted her Navy husband home from his tour. That doesn’t mean they don’t support their mission or their job.
MikeB: your an idiot!
Sorry, anecdotal stories hardly make a study.
MikeB
Nothing like instant discredit of a source …
And that’s the best you’ve got?
A few points ( sorry, my quotation button is removed by my server here at work, so I’ll try to make this work ):
a wall to keep out “immigrants and terrorists”; ( Illegal immigrants – now who’s confusing the two? )
surveillance cameras on every corner;
( Who’s afraid of surveillance in public areas? I, for one, feel safer )
an ideologically aligned Supreme Court;
( And Ruth Ginsberg doesn’t have an ideology? What you mean is a court that has a CONSERVATIVE ideologically )
a president who signs statements nullifying the legislation that has just passed; ( If done to protect this country, I approve – if not, different matter )
a television-dependent, consumer-obsessed population; ( Agreed )
the concentration of information outlets under a single authority;
( Hmm…fairness doctrine? As far as I know, this isn’t the case now )
the marginalization of the middle class and the busting of unions;
( Like the unions who wanted secret ballot voting and are more concerned about their leadership than their members? )
the suspension of habeas corpus;
( For enemy combatants? Hell yes )
denying the people access to information about government activity by asserting “executive privilege”;
( I believe this is the right of the executive branch to keep their discussions private )
the blurring of the lines between science and religion;
( I think the bigger problem here is the highlighting of science while attempting to silence religion – unless it is Islam, then you can have all your rights to practice and discuss your beliefs anywhere )
a faceless, terrifying enemy;
( While terrifying, it is hardly faceless. Those who attempt to make it faceless are those who raise hell when someone attempts to accurately profile this enemy as being mostly young males of Islamic descent – then you’re racially profiling )
a unilaterally prosecuted War Without End.
( Which was approved by both parties, and the U.N., but which has been poorly executed through ridiculous rules of engagement and archaic comparisons to outdated and inappropriate methods of waging war )
Kristol = Malkin = Hannity = Limbaugh = Cowards who hide behind the sacrifices of our troops while arguing for more failed policies.
( The same arguments made by this group:
http://www.vetsforfreedom.org Are they cowards as well? )
majority of military families DO NOT.
Where’s the cite for that statement, out of curiosity?
( Same article states: The poll wasn’t scientific, so it’d be a mistake to make too much of the numbers. – but a typical liberal tactic of using a portion of information to make a point )
Right on Kimmer.
Saying military families are ‘anti-war’ because they want their families home misses the point.
We ALL want ALL of our fine military men and women home NOW. All of us working would like to retire right now too. The problem is that we have work left to do.
If Al Qaeda decided to stop fighting, troops would be home tomorrow. If they didn’t ride by IED’s on normal patrol in Iraq anymore, they’d be home tomorrow. The problem is that while we ALL want ALL of our troops home NOW, we would prefer they get their job done first.
Once they complete the job of creating a stable Iraq, they’ll come home – NOT A MINUTE SOONER. MOST military families would concur with that though they would ALL say that they want their loved ones home and out of harms way.
Wanting loved ones safe does not equal ‘anti-war’.
I wonder if anyone will bring up Hillary Clinton’s Military service in this Presidential Campaign. . . (chirp, chirp) Beuler, Beuler?
@DavidLeeRothmann
You do not have this wrong.
PBoilermaker
Bingo.
Agreed. I’d also like to reiterate that we have an all-volunteer force.
We know what the risks are when we sign up and we all take the oath.
Or Obama’s…..or Edwards’…..
I guess this time around it’s not important to the Libs.
Perhaps if MikeB were to spend less time in the g-d chat rooms and more time watching the History Channel he might learn a few things (those who saw the Gen. Patton video at HA will know what I’m talking about).
Has the war been fought well? No. But I would ask anyone to name a war in which no mistakes were made. How much anger was directed at Gen. MacArthur when he left troops at the hands of the Japanese when he left the Phillipines? What about the poorly designed duplex drive tanks that sunk on D-Day? The revered Abraham Lincoln (who also suspended habeas corpus, BTW), went through a series of Union generals who fought the war ineffectively, one of whom (MacClellan) opposed him in the 1864 election, and who wanted to sue for peace with the South. When Lincoln finally place Grant at the head of the Army, the casualties rose enormously, and despite more criticism from the populace, brought victory to the Union.
Just a thought….for those who agree with this Kos garbage….
Take a trip to Camp Pendleton, or the Marine Barracks at 8th / I in DC someday and see what the Military can do for our young men & women.
Most recently, I was at 8th & I and talked with some of the Marines there and watched their dedication & pride during one of the Evening Parade Displays….
Amazing how these, “young kids who’ve been lied to and duped” show more pride in 60 seconds than any of these snarky idiots will show in a lifetime.
I’ve GOT IT!
MikeB is alias……”Cookie Monster” – Colmes……..LOL!!!!!!!
I’m glad that you copied the entire article, but this line makes the article moot:
I don’t think many contributors here do agree (with the exception of hacks like MikeB, LG, Rusty, etc).
Kimmer, if you want to look at history, take the UK. Who was the leading critic of World War I in the UK? That’s right: Winston Churchill. Who was the hero of the UK in WWII: Winston Churchill. In the UK, unlike here, you are actually allowed to have a different opinion even during war time without being labeled a traitor or unpatriotic, etc. MM and their ilk if around during WWII in the UK would have said we must never let that traitor Churchill in power, in fact, he should be prosecuted for treason (under Gitmo rules). Shows how having closed minds doesn’t work, huh.
MikeB,
Next week will you be a Doctor?
You know, Gayle, MikeB might very well be Alan Colmes.
AJ! LOL!
He may as well declare defeat.
He’s in the WRONG place to argue.
I guess we’re all close-minded.
OH well, at least our skulls are full of brains instead of mush.
I am very intuitive….thought I’d add that factor in the equation.
PBoilermaker # 79 – I was speaking rhetorically – just saying that for those who DO agree with that line of thinking.
MikeB # 80 -
You ARE allowed to have a different opinion????? Does that go for Supreme Court Justices as well? Or does an opposing view from your make them ‘ideological’ and dangerous?
Clarification: Having a different opinion doesn’t make you a traitor. Working to implement policies, laws and the like which would weaken this country and strengthen the position of those we are fighting, does.
Oh, and by the way, stating that the war is lost while we have 150,000 men and women in the field fighting that war – to me – IS traitorous.
PBoilermaker and Gayle, although Colmes’s views on many issues are correct, he is too wimpy to fight that ignorant, dishonest, uninformed, idiotic Hannity.
ALSO:
MikeB, Under what “Gitmo Rules” would Churchill be prosecuted for treason?
Please clarify.
uh oh. I sense a fight ensuing.
Oh? And you assume you know what MM “and their ilk” would do. You might want to recall the old canard about assuming.
Mike, please explain IN DETAIL, why you believe Hannity to be dishonest.
Thank you in advance.
No JRL, you and MM, etc. have no problem with the illegal treatment of Gitmo prisioners. See below:
Unlikely Adversary Arises to Criticize Detainee Hearings
Today’s Times shows a 20-year military man opposed detention policies:
Monica Almeida/The New York Times
Stephen E. Abraham in his law office. His report on the government’s detention policies turned him into an adversary of the Bush administration.
By WILLIAM GLABERSON
Published: July 23, 2007
Colmes? Has anyone ever tried to listen to his radio show? It’s painful. No direction, except negativism. Completely run by his left-wing callers. If someone DOES disagree with him, their cut-off or harangued or spoken over so badly.
It’s like Air-America Lite.
As for Hannity, I do know one thing, his “Freedom Concerts” have raised a ton of money for the children of KIA soldiers.
What have Franken, Colmes and their cohorts done for our troops lately ( and PLEEEEZE don’t say they’ve tried to end this war….that’s a cop-out answer )
Since you speak so highly of the UK, you might want to recall that London is loaded with those surveillance cameras you so despise and fear–the same cameras which have helped them catch both IRA and Muslim bombers.