“KILLITARY” and the Daily Kos Update: Who is “liquidman?” Update: Kos is “alarmed”
Update 3:28pm Eastern. Noel Sheppard notes that Markos is alarmed and trying to control the inmates in the Daily Kos asylum:
“With us or against us”
by kosMon Jul 23, 2007 at 10:30:19 AM PDT
There has lately been an alarming rise in diaries and comments that seek to impugn (without evidence) the motives of those they disagree with on various issues.
Yes, there’s the impeachment stuff, but this nasty rhetoric is also rampant in the primary war diaries.
This points to a serious breakdown not just on civility, but in the ability of people to properly debate various issues. As such, it presents a serious threat to the integrity of this site.
I much prefer it when the community moderates itself, and for the most part it does a good job of this. The libertarian in me prefers it that way. But sometimes, self-moderation isn’t enough. I’ll act swiftly and mercilessly when I’m pushed into defending the effectiveness of this site. And at this moment, my patience is wearing thin.
Reasonable people, including progressives, can disagree on many of the big issues we face today — from which candidate to support in the primary, to whether impeachment is the best way to hold this administration accountable, to the merit of gun control or free trade agreements, to how to handle immigration, to whatever else faces our nation. As a site, we strive to provide a safe haven for debate on these matters without it getting — as has happened of late — so damn ugly.
Good luck. You can always say, “Screw them.”
Update 3:22Eastern: The hate continues. Charles at LGF points to another Kos diarist, who writes about the troops: “do I still support the individual men and women who have given so much to serve their country? No. I think they’re a bunch of idiots. I also think they’re morally retarded.”
The diarist is none other than former SNL’er A. Whitney Brown. Here’s the vid.
Yep. That’s your nutroots base, Hillary, Barack, and John. Embrace the hate.
***
I have a blog category called “They don’t support the troops.” I had a chapter in my last book, “Unhinged,” with the same name. Both are filled with countless ugly stories of anti-military bile from the left. My friend Lt. Col. Buzz Patterson has a new book out, “War Crimes: The Left’s Campaign to Destroy Our Military and Lose the War on Terror” exhaustively detailing this same enmity towards the military. There are regular outbreaks of troop-bashing every week in some corner of the liberal universe. Last week, it was Ted Rall.
Now, we have this from the Daily Kos (via Ace and LGF):
The diary has now been deleted. It was cross-posted here and now that post has also been deleted. Ace had a correspondent who was able to save and capture the post’s text. Here’s the intro:
KILLITARY: Are America’s Armed Forces Creating Serial Killers and Mass Murderers?
This article in no way is meant to suggest that all miltary members will become serial killers or mass murderers. It does point out a serious problem with what is happening in our armed forces and seeks a solution to help the brave men and women on their return back home.
According to the July 30, 2007 issue of The Nation magazine, damning photos of a U.S. Soldier using a spoon to literally scoop out the brains of a dead Iraqi and pretending to eat the gray matter were recently acquired.
Of course, everyone is appropriately appalled and make all claims of disgust and finger-wagging. Research shows, however, that such unacceptable behavior happens more often than the United States military wants you to know.
When it comes to training killing machines, the military really does create “an Army of one.”
The list of serial killers and mass murderers borne from the military is astounding.
Update: Who is “liquidman,” the author of the deleted dKos diary?
The Google cache version of “liquidman’s” post points to “Corey Mitchell:”
***
Gee, do you think anyone will ask the Democrat candidates who will be attending the Yearly Kos convention (Hillary Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Bill Richardson and Chris Dodd) about this during the CNN/YouTube debate tonight?
How about asking the candidates when they attend the Yearly Kos event? Here’s the link the question form:
Here’s Hillary’s blog. Ask her.
Here’s Obama’s blog. Ask him.
And here’s a question form at John Edwards’ blog. Ask him.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- KILLITARY: Leftist disdain for our troops - Now you see it, now you don’t « Volunteer Opinion Journal
- CNN/YouTube Debate - Gimmick or not? « Volunteer Opinion Journal
- Right Wing Nut House » LOVIN’ THE WAR AND HATIN’ THE MILITARY…OR IS IT T’OTHER WAY AROUND?
- Bill's Bites
- politicalpartypoop.com » Blog Archive » Busted: Fifth Column “Kilitary”
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation : Weblogs
- Lefty-Liberals Loathe Our Troops (and Likewise) « TMQ2
- LGF Vs. Daily Kos « ChenZhen’s Chamber
- On Sheep, Wolves, Sheepdogs « Toms FlashBacks
- Wake up America
- Iowa Voice » » I Love The Sound Of Reality Crashing In On These People
- I Love The Sound Of Reality Crashing In On These People at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.
- NoisyRoom.net » Blog Archive » Noisy News Around the Web - 07/23/2007…
- Iowa Voice » » Not The Same Thing
- Mudville Gazette
- Not The Same Thing at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation · Articles
- Michelle Malkin » Daily Kos diarist: Still thinks troops are “morally retarded”
- Islamists and Leftists Converge at The Nation · New York Articles
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Categories: Kos, They don't support the troops
TigerHawk
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» Obama Supporters Call Sarah Palin a C*nt-Where Is the Media?TigerHawk
» Airbrushing the New York TimesBetsys Page
» Polling is an art, not a scienceStop The ACLU
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» Hope and Change: Squelching Free Speech through Boycotts and Arson
That’s pretty deep, Mike. Getting frustrated with the shortcomings of your own arguments?
I bet you have an MM shrine at home, similar to “Cool Ethan” (minus the hair doll).
GeorgeJ #99:
MikeB hasn’t done anything to get himself banned, IMHO, only continued to convey Liberal talking points and viewpoints.
While he may mischaracterize MM’s views, and be TOTALLY wrong on many issues ( lol ), he is a polite debater by all I’ve seen.
Also - I think many of us who hold the opposite views from him are quite effective in correcting any misinterpretations by him.
Kimmer, #96, I think you are correct.
Jrl, thanks for the confidence. But on your point about Hannity–He does cut off anyone who actually criticizes our Iraq policy. If a Democrat he misquotes other Democrats and asks “do you support that statement.” Also, by the way he asks questions you can tell he is only reading a “talking point” from his producers. See his questioning of Christopher Hitchens. Also, he was dead set against our involvement in Bosnia and constantly criticized Clinton for it. Now that we are in Iraq, he believes it is unpatriotic to criticize our President in times of war. Dishonest, you betcha.
Keep going Nutroots, show the world your hate! Let the public know what a miserable lot of rabid monsters you are. Let the people know how much you Nutroots hate the military, let the people know that you think that 9/11 was an inside job! Be honest, be open!
Feralcat,
I bet you’re a better free throw shooter with a blindfold on than Shaq.
Timing is everything. Would Kos have taken the post down and would they have posted their July 23 “notice” (above) if their convention wasn’t upon them with all the democratic stars planning to attend? I’m guessing that Kos may have received a phone call or two from the candidates telling them to COOL IT or else.
MikeB:
There is no doubt that Hannity has certain points he’s trying to make. He’s a commentator. He’s not a journalist. He has a viewpoint, just like Colmes or Limbaugh or anyone else like that.
I personally think the worst is Olberman. There is something seriously emotionally wrong with that man. He has a personal bias that bleeds through everything he says and does. Yet he critizes those on the right in the same position. While they are conservative, they don’t speak with the same adolescent tones or hatred in which he does.
Not really, Mike. Churchill served as the First Lord of the Admiralty, which would be the rough equivalent of being Secretary of the Navy, prior to and during the Great War. He was roundly criticised during his tenure, especially after Gallipoli, and was forced to resign during the war. After this, I believe he went to the front to serve as a regimental commander in the field.
It’s possible that he criticised the government for their prosecution of the war and for not supporting him, but I don’t think you could say that Churchill was “the leading critic of WWI in the UK”. He was an active participant in the planning, execution, and actual fighting of that war.
davidleerothman #109:
Excellent retort….
I’m still waiting to hear why Churchill would, according to MikeB, be imprisoned in Gitmo.
I believe Senator MikeB has left the building or is it Astronaut?
#108 jrlingreenbay
Monday Night Football will never be the same with him in the booth this year. I can see it now. Ranting on about how a ruling, which is overturned on review, was obviously a Rove plot.
No, I am here. We all can agree that Churchill was a critic of the war while still being in the government.
In our jingoistic society, you got to “go along to get along.” Take Colin Powell, it seems he opposed the Iraq war, but he didn’t go public when he should have–he could have stopped this terrible mistake. Some of you forget that William Cullen Bryant opposed WWI as Sec. of State to Wilson. My point: Dissent is good, right, and you guess it, patriotic. We are allegedly fighting for democracy in Iraq (is that the justification this week?) why not have it at home.
ThackerAgency - “Once they complete the job of creating a stable Iraq, they’ll come home - NOT A MINUTE SOONER.”
If they can’t come home until they create a stable Iraq [and don't forget what George Bush said on May 26, 2007 “We are determined to help them secure their liberty. Our troops are helping them build democracies that respect the rights of their people, uphold the rule of law, and fight extremists alongside America in the war on terror”], they had best start learning Spanish so that they will be able to talk to their grandchildren when they get home, or when they see THEM in Iraq, in the later part of this century if they don’t die of old age first.
Passenger: Take me to Stable Iraq [a democracy that respects the rights of their people, uphold the rule of law, and fight extremists alongside America in the war on terror] please.
New York Cab Driver: You can’t get there from here.
MikeB:
You’re ducking and zig-zagging more than a 4th grader with epilepsy in a dodgeball contest.
One more time:
Why would Churchill be in Gitmo in the first place?
You seem to imply that just by having an opposing view, he would be imprisoned.
If that is not your logic, please clarify your reasoning behind your statement.
We can’t all agree. How about you offering something to back up this claim, like some actual quotes from Churchill? Or is just one more thing you read somewhere and cut-and-pasted here?
John McCain has been a critic of the war. He is still in government.
I’d like to see you provide a link to this “fact”. You can use the link button so you don’t even need to know html.
Bush has caught a bear in Iraq.
Bush: “I’ve caught a bear.”
Public: “Bring him here then.”
Bush: “He won’t come.”
Public: “Well come here yourself then.”
Bush: “He won’t let me.”
JRL, okay it was a joke the Gitmo-Churchill thing and you say liberals have no sense of humor?
Feralcat:
Forgive me - maybe it’s because it’s Monday….
But you lost me on that last one….lol.
flesner, read it and weep:
Does Mexican immigration reduce crime?
Robert Sampson writes in today’s NYT Op-Ed page:
…evidence points to increased immigration as a major factor associated with the lower crime rate of the 1990’s (and its recent leveling off).
Hispanic Americans do better on a range of various social indicators — including propensity to violence — than one would expect given their socioeconomic disadvantages. My colleagues and I have completed a study in which we examined 8,000 Chicago residents who were asked about the characteristics of their neighborhoods.
Surprisingly, we found a significantly lower rate of violence among Mexican-Americans than among blacks and whites…Indeed, the first-generation immigrants (those born outside the United States) in our study were 45 percent less likely to commit violence than were third-generation Americans, adjusting for family and neighborhood background. [TC: But don't absolute probabilities play the key role here? And should we compare Mexicans to "blacks and whites" or to each group in isolation?] Second-generation immigrants were 22 percent less likely to commit violence than the third generation.
Our study further showed that living in a neighborhood of concentrated immigrants is directly associated with lower violence (again, after taking into account a host of factors…)
Alas, there is no permalink these days. Here is the relevant project which generated the data. No one of Sampson’s pieces on his web page seems to cover this result, though many are relevant more broadly. Also see this summary of his criticism of “broken window” and “tipping point” theories of crime.
Here is another piece which seems to support the basic result that Mexican immigration lowers crime. Here is a survey article on the topic. This piece (see p.113) suggests that crime is lower in border cities than comparable non-border cities, and that Mexican immigration cannot be identified as a cause of a higher U.S. crime rate.
Yes comments are open, but purely anecdotal accounts of how you were once mugged by a Mexican, or how your neighborhood just isn’t “the same anymore” are discouraged. I’m posting a version of this over at Volokh Conspiracy as well, look for the differing comments.
ajmontana said:
Feralcat,
I bet you’re a better free throw shooter with a blindfold on than Shaq.
And when they are also playing country music, Shaq doesn’t like that, it is not even close!
Let’s recap…..
At 3:10 pm, MikeB said:
“…. MM and their ilk if around during WWII in the UK would have said we must never let that traitor Churchill in power, in fact, he should be prosecuted for treason (under Gitmo rules).”
At 3:33 pm, MikeB said:
“Ok, I misspoke, what I meant was MM would have no problem torturing a “traitor” like Churchill, as they do Gitmo prisoners. All of you here, just can’t stand anyone who disagrees.”
and then………..
At 4:33 pm, MikeB said:
“JRL, okay it was a joke the Gitmo-Churchill thing and you say liberals have no sense of humor?”
My sense from your first two posts were not jokes, but your true thoughts. You could not defend them, so you now say you were ‘only joking’.
I believe we now have the true identity of MikeB!!!!
He’s not Alan Colmes, it’s John Kerry!
Another ‘joke’ gone bad…..
But JRL, MM, Hannity, Limbaugh, Coulter all opposed our invovement in Bosnia and criticized Pres. Clinton daily, now that Bush is in office, to criticize the war or the president is treacherous and unpatriotic.
Mike B-
You never did comment on whether you are an ex-Marine or a former Marine.
My husband is a former Marine and they never refer to themselves as “ex-Marines”.
So, which is it?? And where did you serve?
Semper fi??
As for the Mexican Immigrants / Reduced Crime post….
Again - consider the source, the NY Times.
Secondly - look at who is the most violent group within our prison system: The Mexican groups, population growing.
I also didn’t see in that article where the study came from….and what are the “Host of factors” that were taken into consideration when coming up with their results?
What the article doesn’t state is the obvious….
ILLEGAL immigrants are already law-breakers by the very nature of their status. Are you saying we should leave them alone because they’re not violent?
That seems to be the mantra - “Yes, they’re illegal, but their good people”
Pop quiz:
Who said this?
“May we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.”
He also said this:
“When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience, I have come to hate war.”
Mike B - Op-ed pieces are not facts, 1984 is a conspiracy classic, not a fact, the times is a liberal rag repeatedly proven wrong and uninformed. Time to put down the novels, the times and turn off the daily show. It’s clouded your thoughts with inaccuracies.
JRL and others, check this out:
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2006/01/01/good_waves/
No, I was not a Marine, I was quoting a Marine who made that post.
MikeB: You keep bringing up Bosnia.
When was our last troop pulled out of there?
Oh yeah, they’re STILL there….
and Korea, and Germany, …….
Feralcat:
That was Eisenhower
Yes JRL we are still in Bosnia with our NATO allies. See, we undertook a limited mission (unlike nation building in Iraq), without ground troops (unlike Iraq), and with support of our allies (unlike our mostly unilateral invasion of Iraq).
At the time of that invasion, our country was popular throughout the world as opposed to now where 70% of Iraqis see the US as a bigger threat than al Quedia.
JRL, you brought up Eisenhower who campaigned on opposition to the Korean War. Is Ike a traitor or just soooo pre-9/11.
I was not aware Jayson Blair started writing for the Daily Kos.
eric
http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
MikeB,
With all due respect you’re starting to sound like Sen. “Tommy” Reid, making things up as you go along.
I simply answered Feralcat’s question - I didn’t bring up Ike for any other reason.
As for your article, one paragraph states:
“No studies, furthermore, have been able to determine whether illegal immigrants-who tend to loom particularly large in public fears-are as crime-averse as legal immigrants. On this front, though, criminologists have at least been able to make informed guesses. Sampson, for example, points out that 75 percent of the immigrants in his study listed themselves as noncitizens. While many of those may have been in the process of applying for citizenship, a good number, he suspects, were simply illegal. And Martinez claims that he’s seen very few illegal immigrants in the prison populations, homicide reports, and detectives’ assessments he’s studied. ”They’re laying low,” he says, and committing a crime would only get them noticed.”
He only “suspects” that many were illegal? That’s really scientific.
As for illegals committing crimes - there’s news every week about the small and large crimes they’re committing.
Not to mention the fact that - HEY!!! THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!!
Since when is doing something that is illegal not a crime?
As for Ike being against the Korean War - no he was not a traitor.
He did not, to my knowledge, use words or actions which would have aided the enemy or degraded the leadership of the military or the country.
Harry Reid, Senate Majority Leader, quoted today as saying the GWB is the “worst President we’ve ever had”.
This is his opinion, but in his position, can’t he be more tactful rather than creating soundbytes for the left-wing constituents and Al Jazeera?
What part of ‘we’re at war’ doesn’t he understand…. Oh that’s right…according to him, we’ve already lost.
I’m outta here - good night, all….
jrlingreenbay
Well said …
The only difference in illegal immigrants in prison for committing crimes and the rest of the illegal immigrants is having been caught for an additional crime … they have all committed a crime by entering our country without permission … end of story …
Not to worry, he is doing the same thing on other threads!
Justice Dept. Figures on Incarcerated Illegals
Been on vacation but see that once again Mikey B doesn’t disappoint with his hate for the troops, those who have served and for MM. What an unhappy man you must be. I pity you.
If they’re so edgy and righteous, why do they delete things they post after Michelle or someone else finds it and spreads the word? Yes, that’s a rhetorical question…
feralcat
I assume that link includes the 630,000 that we have been told about that are still waiting for deportation …
Mike B:
I am sick to death hearing how “popular” the US was before big bad George became President.
When are you idiot lefties going to remember how it REALLY was?
We were as hated then as we are now - except by the European left who loved Clinton as long as he catered to the interests of Europe and not the United States.
In the end, that’s what this is about. The world begrudges us our standing up for our own interests. That’s a no no in the eyes of everyone.
BTW - name one enemy we have now that we didn’t have before 9/11? You can’t because our enemies are the same, our friends are the same. The fact that some Europeans are stupid enough to believe the propaganda about America to the point they actually fear us more than Iran is not our problem. That kind of total ignorance is the problem of host governments who have found it politically convenient to use us as a whipping boy to get elected.
MikeB
Your evidence is an op-ed in the NYT? And you are incapable of posting any links?
I think stupididy should be grounds for banning.
I had not realized that MM made you the moderator on these threads. In any case your own comments on what you have read elsewhere, unsupported by any links, are what is anecdotal here.
Steve Sailer shoots down Robert Sampson, and MikeB.
See how easy it is to make a link, Mike?
MikeB -IS- Alan Colmes.
Feral, Is it possible that many illegal aliens lay low when they get here to avoid contact with the law for fear of being deported?
Is it possible that then after that fear is removed they begin acting with the knowledge that they will be given all the rights and benefits of an American Citizen and therefore have no fear of committing crime?
You spout statistics as though if every American were hispanic, we’d have no crime.
And Mike B. I have dissented about how this war has been prosecuted. You can dissent without calling our troops ‘criminals’ or ‘murderers’. You can dissent without calling our Commander-In-Chief a ‘liar’. WE ARE A DEMOCRACY who ELECTED A COMMANDER IN CHIEF. You don’t get to vote on all the CIC’s decisions as you seem to think you should.
Bush’s loyalty is a fault of his. I disagree with keeping Rumsfeld on so long because he was a problem. I disagree with how he treated the Gonzoles situation - he should have just said we can fire whoever, whenever, for whatever reason. . . NEXT!
We needed more troops sooner. We needed to surround Tora Bora with US troops and not use any Pakistani troops. Dissent is patriotic dude, it’s HOW you dissent that makes it treason. If you say, I disagree with this war so I want us to LOSE, THAT’S TREASON! That’s the problem with how the Dems (and YOU) are ‘disagreeing’.
Now isn’t this the same Kos who banned Cindy Sheehan because she disagreed with supporting the Democrats and threatened to run against one? Doesn’t that give the lie to the notion that the regressives over at Kos can disagree?
ThackerAgency - “You spout statistics as though if every American were hispanic, we’d have no crime.
We must have a big case of “failure to communicate” here.
I thought that my link in #139 argued more in the other direction.
fair enough. . . I still don’t understand why we are talking about illegal aliens on this thread.
#151 I think the segue started at around comment #16 and was continued intermittently after that.
I *am* head of a military family.
My son is a US Marine. His squadron mates (he’s part of an Marine Air Wing) are deployed in Ira
Jeez, who would have thought a post titled “KILLITARY” would set off such a rumble?
MikeB knew, that’s why he posted so much nonsense.
oops. Hit the wrong key.
I’ll start again.
I *am* head of a military family.
My son is a US Marine. Members of his unit are deployed in Iraq and Djibouti. He happens to be stateside for now. I took an informal, off the record, email poll of some of the families.
To a family, 100% want their son, daughter, father, mother, etc., HOME.
To a family, 100% understand what is at stake in the war on terror.
To a family, they all understand the mission and the goals of Marines being deployed to the middle east and eastern Africa.
Contrary to the claims made by MikeB, the families I’ve exchanged emails with have not lost faith.
Are there families who want the war to end? Absodamnlutely. Every one of them.
But their support of their sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, etc., is unwavering.
And every one of them is upset at the topic of this thread — that some so-called “Americans” who stylize themselves as “patriots” are rekindling the Vietnam-era “baby-killer” mantra. That you can take to the bank, MikeB. They despise the DKOS/DU/Huffpo posters that are slandering their sons and daughters, and vow to now allow them to get away with it this time around.
My son’s unit command asks for and gets volunteers to go to the Sandbox and the Horn. This, in spite of being shot at, mortared, IED’d, etc., when they get to Iraq. Or walking patrol and living off the land the God forgot with the French Foreign legion in the Horn (BTW, the Marines admire and learn from the French who have been in the Horn for decades). And absolute proof that your comments that the troops are losing faith is pure, unadulterated BULLSH*T.
To a man and woman, THEY DO NOT WANT THE LEAVE THE JOB UNDONE, even though they all want to come home. Re-enlistment levels throughout the Corps is extremely high, higher than peacetime according to some “old-salts” I’ve talked to. Yes, this is anecdotal, but the record shows the Marines and Marine Reserves have exceeded every recruiting/retention goal for every quarter since 2001, with only one quarter as an exception.
More proof that everything MikeB has been saying is bullsh*t.
MikeB attempted to deceive us into thinking he was an “ex-marine.” He now waves his hand and say, no, he was only QUOTING an “ex-marine.” At *best* he is being disingenuous, but more likely he’s simply a liar.
He’s accused a whole bunch of people of being “chickenhawks” including the owner of this blog in this and in other thread.
Well, as HE is not “eligible” under HIS own criteria to comment on the war, then perhaps he should STFU.
Here is what he MikeB is: He is a TROLL.
From Wikipedia:
He calls conservatives names. He insults our hostess (that shows he has no manners or “breeding”). He is argumentative, and not in the way principled debaters are. He hijacks threads. He fits the profile, therefore.
Whatever his purpose is, his effect is to engage us in argument for no purpose.
After reading many of what his posts, I’ve come to the conclusion that my initial impression of him is correct.
The proper way to deal with him is to not feed him by “debating” him. You are not going to “reach” him. He is here to disrupt us through preaching using BDS/Liberal Democrat talking points. He is a propagandist whose goal is to marginalize us and demoralize us.
PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLL.
Of course, some of you may disagree with my assessment. That’s your privilege. In this blog (unlike DKOS/DU, and Huffpo) you’re entitled to your opinion and to express it.
georgej
From a proud then and proud now former Marine … well said …
GeorgeJ +7 (that’s the number in this household)
Thanks georgej for that excellent post.
I’m the head of a military family too. My wife and I are both former Navy, and our son is serving now. And he is of the same mindset as your son. He wants us to finish the job and leave no chance that American soil will ever be violated again by these scumbags.
Michelle, I think it’s unfortunate how Bill O’Reilly approaches this issue and other Internet/technology issues.
DailyKos is worthy of derision for so many of the political points of view expressed there, but instead, O’Reilly prattles on about ‘hate speech’.
There surely is plenty ‘unhinged’ in the blogosphere wherever comments are enabled, and some sites are worse than others. I’d find it plausible that DailyKos is of an order of magnitude worse than others, and even the worst of all of them.
Nevertheless, I find O’Reilly’s blurring of responsibility among those who control a site like DailyKos (and their core group), on the one hand, and any old random person who utilizes comments or ‘diaries’, on the other, bespeaks technological ignorance.
With both you and Mary Katherine Ham now on tap for O’Reilly, I’d urge you to educate him on these questions. And, again, to turn the criticism of DailyKos to the policy positions advocated there. That is where the sin of association by the field of major Democratic Party politicians and candidates is the most severe.
Well said, and thank you. You’re a better source of opinions from military families than the Pew Dork Slimes. How many of the families that are said to have “turned” against the war are really expressing dissatisfaction that the military they support isn’t being allowed to kick enough tail by restrictive rules of engagement?
What percentage of the poll numbers that say “against the war” are of the belief that the war was necessary but isn’t being prosecuted aggressively enough? I think that these get conflated together to increase the “against” number for the headline through intentionally vague questions in the poll.
How about this for a poll question:
Do you believe that the U.S. military should lose in Iraq, to prevent America from future military adventurism and prevent another Republican Commander in Chief from taking office?
Is political success for the opposition to the executive branch worth a loss on America?
What would be the effect of an American retreat from Iraq on all the people around the world who depend on the United States for their security, especially those inside Iraq who have risked their lives to help their country be free?
Norman Geras, an old Socialist, puts things so well. We would all, left, right and liberal be better off to at last take in some of what he says. Like all writers, philosophers or critics, there will always be disagreements, but it is time the American Left began to do some research on why they think and behave as they do. Why the Ameican Left hates American so much. I give you all just a tiny, tiny morsel from Norman Geras:
…The lessons have evidently still not been learned of earlier, sometimes calamitous, misjudgements – which produced the Third Period of the Comintern, when social democracy, not Nazism, was said to be the main enemy; and which landed the world communist movement, along with much fellow-travelling liberal opinion, in denial and excuse towards the criminality of Stalinism despite a flood of evidence about this; and which have led, time and again, to a complaisant attitude towards terror and murder for alleged purposes of liberation, so putting in question the claim of those with that attitude to represent a movement for democratic, egalitarian and humane objectives. There is no reason intrinsic to the central values and principles of socialism for these misjudgements or their continuation. But there are clearly, as always and everywhere, simplifying tendencies of thought – in the present case, seeing in imperialism, not merely a crucial feature of the world, but the answer to every question. A thing held too close to the eye obstructs the vision.
To read the Essay in its entirety, go here:http://mail.bris.ac.uk/~plcdib/imprints/normangerasinterview.html
Geras is not easy for me to read, I’m old and never got to college, but I have tried all my life to learn and have created my own philosophy. However, those of us who care so much, need to do our homework so that we do not waste our time with such a MikeB. The Socialist of old would turn over in their graves if they heard what the American, nay the world Left is spewing forth!
Sharinlite:
Geras is probably one of the last of the anti-communist socialists left. In the late 40’s after the war, the socialists in Europe helped create NATO and welcomed the Marshall plan.
Not too many of them left now. They’ve been replaced by people perfectly at home with communism. A shame.