Minneapolis bridge collapse
Update 2:50pm Eastern. David N. at Overlawyered notes that the inevitable mob of trial lawyers is already circling the bridge collapse.
Update 8/2 1:50pm Eastern. Dean Barnett checks the stupid-o-meter.
More from the Blame Bush brigade.
Ed Morrissey blogs the federal response from President Bush, who promises “robust” efforts to investigate and rebuild the bridge.
Update 8/2 12:30pm Eastern. Popular Mechanics weighs in on America’s weak infrastructure.
Update 8/2 9:40am Eastern. Yes, yes, the BDS sufferers are crawling out of their padded cells to pin the collapse on conservatives. Here, here, and here (the comments blame global warming, Halliburton/Cheney, and lack of resources because of the war), if you must see it.
The Pioneer Press looks at Internet coverage of the collapse. Lots of Twitter users and bloggers covering the story wall-to-wall.
Meanwhile, a National Guardsman writes in: “I just wanted to point out something your readers might be interested in. If you look at the footage of the I-35 bridge collapse you can see the Minnesota Army National Guard Civil Support Team (CST - basically a WMD/Counter-Terror/Disaster Response Team) responded to the scene. You can see an M113 Armored [Personnel] Carrier on the north side of the collapse in footage taken at the scene…Just figured I’d point that out. As a National Guard member it sometimes gets frustrating that everybody always thinks of America’s soldiers as being over in Iraq. Whenever our Nation calls we respond, whether it’s in Iraq or right here at home.”
“I have several family members that were going across the bridge just minutes before the collapse - I am thanking God tonight they are safe. I don’t live in the Twin Cities area but oddly enough I was going across that bridge on Tuesday!”
Video and more info on warnings about the bridge’s structural deficiencies at HA.
Twin Cities blogger/journalist James Lileks reflects:
I’ve driven across this bridge every few days for thirty years. There are bridges, and there are bridges; this one had the most magnificent view of downtown available, and it’s a miracle I never rear-ended anyone while gawking at the skyline, the old Stone Bridge, the Mississippi. You always felt proud to be here when you crossed that bridge, pleased to live in such a beautiful place. Didn’t matter if it was summer twilight or hard cold winter noon - Minneapolis always seemed to be standing at attention, posing for a formal portrait . We’ll have that view again – but it’ll take a generation before it’s no longer tinged with regret and remembrance.
Update 8/2 9:30am Eastern. First-hand acounts from the kids on the school bus who survived the collapse:
“We were on our way back from the swimming field trip,” said Ryan Watkins, one of the youths on the bus.
“We were riding over the bridge and the bridge collapsed, and we were right on the part where it went down — where it curved down,” he said, describing the collapse of the Interstate 35W bridge near University Avenue.
Watkins was one of 52 children and nine adults who survived the accident, according to Tony Wagner, president of the local nonprofit social services group that organized the trip.
Eight of the kids, ages 5 to 14, were hospitalized with injuries, Wagner said.
“I know a little girl who was bleeding,” Watkins said shortly after the accident. “I didn’t see what happened, but she was bleeding in between her legs and another girl had hurt her neck.”
Update 8/2 8:30am Eastern. Death toll lowered to four for now.
Update 10:50pm Eastern. Lots of folks on the cable news are saying the footage of the bridge collapse area reminds them of 9/11. I’m reminded more of the Northridge earthquake. I lived near the epicenter–and the breadth of destruction, the collapse of part of the Santa Monica freeway, the pancaking/destruction, etc., are very reminscent of the scene today. A Minnesota DOT official also alluded to the Northridge quake on CNN just now. And a fellow Northridge quake survivor told the Minnesota Star Tribune:
Catherine Yankelevich, 29, was on the bridge when “it started shaking, cars started flying and I was falling and saw the water,” she said.
Her car was in the river when she climbed out the driver’s side window and swam to shore uninjured.
“It seemed like a movie, it was pretty scary,” said Yankelevich, who is from California and survived the 1994 Northridge earthquake.
“I never expected anything like this to happen here,” she said.
Update 10:00pm Eastern. Minneapolis Mayor RT Rybak reports that six deaths are confirmed…and they are bracing for a long, tragic night to come. Awful.
“No structural deficiencies” reported in 2006 on the bridge, according to Gov. Tim Pawlenty. Cosmetic and rehabilitation was being done.
As noted below, the Red Cross received 60 kids from the school bus that stopped short of plunging off the bridge…up to 10 kids transported to area hospitals…donations/aid can go to www.redcrosstc.org…
Reader Pete sends photos from the scene taken earlier this evening…
***
Update 9:30pm Eastern. From the St. Paul Pioneer Press…
Janet Stately, of Minneapolis, was driving southbound on Interstate 35W from Duluth with her daughter, Brianne. Stately said she exited onto University Avenue just minutes before reaching the bridge. On the overpass, she heard the cracking of the structure and
“I was driving the car and I screamed when I heard it crack,” Stately said. “It’s like it went in slow motion. I heard the crack and I saw the cars going straight in. There was not a space between the cars on that bridge. I tried to tell people on the road if you can swim get down there and help.”
This Minneapolis-area blogger was there and describes the slow, quiet collapse. He concludes: “This was not a bomb.” Metroblogging Minneapolis has more liveblogging/witness reports. CNN reporting 50-100 vehicles have plunged into the river.
Update 9:05pm Eastern. There was a Twins baseball game tonight, and local media report that a lot of the bridge traffic was comprised of fans headed downtown for the game. A Twins game scheduled for tomorrow has been canceled. Three reported dead. Cell phone networks are jammed.
Update 8:40pm Eastern. Minneapolis DOT holding a news conference in about an hour. To make things worse: there’s a severe weather warning…storm moving into the area.
Local Fox affiliate KMSP livestream of the disaster here.
DHS issued a statement that the collapse “does not appear to be an act of terrorism.” Isn’t it too early to say anything meaningful about what it “appears” to be? Couldn’t they maybe, I dunno, say nothing until they actually know something?
***
Twin Cities blogger Ed Morrissey: “I have spent the last half-hour finding my son, daughter-in-law, and granddaughter. They’re OK, and now we have to wait to see who isn’t. I’ll be updating this as more details become available…I agree with John [Hinderaker] on another point — bridges like these don’t collapse in the US, especially when they’re only 40 years old. It’s hard to say what could have brought it down, but hopefully the DoT will have more information.”
***
Terrible scene. Photos coming in.
It’s the I-35W bridge over the Mississippi River. Worst possible time–evening rush hour. The Minneapolis Star Tribune reports:
It was not clear how many people might be hurt or killed, but witnesses said at least 20 cars were involved.
The crumpled green wreckage of the bridge lay on the east bank of the river, and a huge section of concrete roadway lay on the west bank. Down below in the river gorge, rescue workers scrambled to help people on the roadway that now lay in the gorge. Fires burned and black smoke rose billowed the wreckage.
Workers have been repairing the 40-year-old bridge’s surface as part of improvements along that stretch of the interstate.
Rescue workers were helping some people from cars in the river onto land.
People at the scene said the entire bridge collapsed, leaving part of the roadway submerged and part above water.
Minneapolis-based John Hinderaker at Power Line: “I’ve crossed that bridge hundreds if not thousands of times. One of my brothers-in-law crossed it four times today. From news footage, it looks as though the whole bridge collapsed, more or less in one piece, into the river; there was footage of people walking around on the fallen bridge next to their cars. People have taken their boats onto the river to rescue victims in the water.”
***
There was a bus full of children on the bridge. WCCO:
It is just horrific,” said witness Marilyn Franzen, who saw the bridge collapse. Franzen said she saw a school bus that managed to stop before the going over the edge of the bridge that she said was carrying 20-30 children.
One bus–not sure if it’s the same one or a different one–carried 60-some children. They all survived. 10 taken to local hospitals.
See what others have said
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- Bridge Collapse in Minneapolis at TOPIC SERVER
- Minneapolis, Minnesota I-35 Bridge Collapse Horror : Scared Monkeys
- Webloggin - Blog Archive » Tragic Bridge Collapse in Minneapolis
- GINA COBB
- Terrorism or Big Government Gone Wrong? « Blogs 4 Brownback
- In my thoughts « Bookworm Room
- Minneapolis-St. Paul Bridge Collapse | Hennessy's View
- Bridges and Resonance « The WYSIWYG* Blog
- Minneapolis bridge Collapse! » Freedom Folks
- Webloggin - Blog Archive » Moonbat Alert - Bridge Collapse is Republicans Fault
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- The World According To Carl
- Bridge Collapse On CNN
- Strangelove » It wasn’t an accident
- PAXALLES
- America’s Weak Infrastructure
- Point Five » Administration Fingerprints Not Yet Discovered In Bridge Wreckage
- DeMediacratic Nation
- Minnesota to New York…I miss Senator Pothole, aka Al D’Amato « THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS
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Comments
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God hear our prayers for the people caught
in this awful bridge collase.
OMG that is awful…
Got to make a couple of phone calls. I know people there.
Michelle,
07:20 pm DHS says is “not an act of terrorism” they are good and boy they are fast what are they under the bridge? I would think they would at least wait until an investigation has begun before discounting anything, jerks.
Over at Powerline the story speaks of how shocking this is to Americans, “the spontaneous collapse of a bridge into a river”.
I concur.
But it comes down to something not getting done consistently to prevent an architectural disaster.
Big government decisions to provide “benefits” to citizens can sometimes leave precious little resources to do the daily work necessary to keep the roads and bridges operable and safe.
This is the tip of a very large iceberg in America.
Time to turn off the gravy tap for the “constitutionally guaranteed benefits” crowd.
If not, who dies first?
Prayers going out for the families of all those affected by this tragic, but preventable, disaster.
This is local to me. It’s quite a mess, it happened during rush traffic, bumper-to-bumper, approx at 6PM.
Although there are no signs of anything other than a “natural” collapse, Homeland Security is also on hand checking things out.
Jaded, why not give the DHS the benefit of the doubt for now? They can always change that statement, and the last thing we need right now are for people to panic and knee-jerk react to something they know little about. At least by saying that terrorism does not appear to be a part of this collapse, they can keep people calm. Besides that, based on what evidence appears to have come of this, it sounds very unlikely that terror played a part.
Yup, other than the terror of those caught up in this disaster, of course.
The bridge was being worked on when this happened, the work caused the traffic to slow which probaly compounded the problem.
According to the History Channel, bridges must be inspected at least every two years. Someone is in trouble. Of course, if it’s anything like elevator inspections (I have yet to step into one with a current inspection certificate) I can certainly see how the *obvious* current weakened condition may have gone unnoticed. Our thoughts are with the innocent commuters and other victims.
I agree with Jaded—the DHS could not possibly know if this were terrorism or not, as the bridge could have been tampered with and it will take a long time to determine (not two hours!) what happened. They will have to investigate underwater if anything was wrong. I hope it was a structural defect, but in this day and age you do think of terrorism.
These DHS bulletins do NOTHING to reassure me. The timing of the collapse is suspicious as well–during rush hour.
My prayers are with the people fighting for survival. May God help you this moment.
Civil disaster. Architects don’t design bridges, civil and mechanical engineers do.
It looks like a bit of rain may be coming ino that area within an hour. If there’s no heavy weather, a gentle rain might aid in keepin any fires down.
Because of the terrorists we are and their
threats some are terrorized when a event like this happens.
But lets take care of our dead and injured
and then give blame and justice where deserved.
For myself, I will NEVER FORGET 9/11
That’s a natural conclusion; there was nothin reported that seems “out of the ordinary” for a natural collapse. As much as “ordinary” can be applied to any disaster. (e.g. there were no explosions)
Sometimes bad things like this just happen. There are lots of variables for example: the weather - steamy hot here and the work on the bridge at the time of the collapse.
This is not the first major bridge collaspe.
I remember this one
On December 15,1967 at approximately 5 p.m., the U.S. Highway 35 bridge connecting Point Pleasant, West Virginia and Kanauga, Ohio suddenly collapsed into the Ohio River. At the time of failure, thirty- seven vehicles were crossing the bridge span, and thirty-one of those automobiles fell with the bridge. Forty- six individuals perished with the buckling of the bridge and nine were seriously injured. Along with the numerous fatalities and injuries, a major transportation route connecting West Virginia and Ohio was destroyed, disrupting the lives of many and striking fear across the nation.
Strange, just notice it was also
Hwy 35
YIKES
This is something that just doesn’t happen in the U.S. I find it very hard to believe that a bridge would just collapse during rush hour with America’s engineering skills and the safety inspections that go into constructing a bridge. Furthermore, I find it almost impossible to believe that a bridge would spontaneously collapse during rush hour.
So that is ridiculous to for the Department of Homeland Security to already declare that this was not terrorist related. It could very well be sabotage. Minneapolis has a very large and growing Muslim population.
I’m not saying there is a connection, but it is smart to be vigilant, and to discount terrorism within two hours is outrageous.
This bridge has been constantly worked on over the past 20 years or so, it’s not likely inspections were skipped. Moreso in that this is a part of a major Interstate (I-35). I wouldn’t be surprised if this was due to cumulative problems, not any single issue.
I agree.
Seems there was paving occuring. That wouldn’t cause the collapse.
HS definitely reacted too quickly in their comment. I guess they don’t want people to over-react.
There was a Twins game tonight and there were probably people heading there.
Just seems to be more than an “accident”.
I believe little of nay statement that HS or any other gov person .
To me they are nearly all liars, cheats and traitors.
Lou Dobbs is right in that our gov in not functioning for us.
I am localalso. Local channel 5 kstp reported the bridge was instpected in 2004 and passed inspection so it could be resurfaced this summer. It appeared from helicopers that 2 lanes were complete, 2 were partial, and 2 not yet started.
I lived in Minneapolis and the Minneapolis area for a few years.
My thoughts and prayers to all those affected by this tragedy.
The Twins are playing. It seems so surreal.
I went to the U of MN and crossed this bridge all the time. It’s extremely packed during rush hour.
Bear is pretty much on target. We have neglected the national infrastructure to pay welfare benefits. After all, bridges and roads don’t vote, but people do.
A few years ago I had the opportunity to look into the infrastructure situation. If my memory serves me, there were upwards of 10,000 bridges in various states of disrepair. There was even a national data base of structural materials taken from the supports of these and other bridges - and kept on file. It was only a matter of time until a major collapse occured - and it is a shame that it was in Minneapolis.
As far as the DHS, nothing is terrorist related until it is proven to be terrorist related. Their knee-jerk response evertime is the same. I would appreciate the truth - which is we don’t think that terrorism is involved but we will eventually examine every possibility. Inadequate testing, sabatoge, overload, and terrorism are still on the table.
Yup, broadcast channels 4,5,8 & 11 are all over this. I expect the coverage will continue into the night. I’ve heard nothing that even hints this was anything other than a structural collapse.
The police just gave a presser, MnDOt will conduct one in about 5 minutes. (Minnesota Dept of Transportation)
This is the second bridge to collapse in the last couple of days: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22170446-1702,00.html
By the way, there is creepy piece of graffiti right next to the construction of the major Occoquan Bridge on 123 that connects Fairfax County and Prince William Counties over the Occoquan River between Lorton and Woodbridge in a major commuting route between I-95 and I-66 in the Northern Virginia Washington area. As you are coming down the big hill south towards Prince William County, there is piece of graffiti on the concrete barriers right before the bridge (which is being widened from two lanes to six) that no one misses. It says “Good War?” It has been there for several months.
Even though I found it annoying, I never thought of it as sinister until now, although with all these bridge collapses I think it warrants the Department of Homeland Security to not completely discount sabotage within two hours of a major bridge collapsing.
Minnesota is spending most of its infrastructre monies on lite rail. We just passed a bill designed to make people think it was for roads and bridges - but it was really for lite rail.
From what I understand at this time from a local channel (KARE 11), the children in the bus that Michelle mentioned seem to have suffered only minor injuries.
Yup. I’d be off-topic if ya get me going on spending money on “lite rail” rather than for a bunch of buses that can drive anyhere they’re needed!
NO they the bus was ok the I saw a interview with the driver of the truck next to the bus. He said they mostly suffered bumps to the top of the when when they hit thier heads on the bus roof.
dm I have to learn to type !!!
LOL, allrsn. One of my typos made Fox 9 into “8″. I’m watching Fox News channel on my PC, they pick up from both Fox 9 and WCCO 4.
It’s great to hear the little ones who were on the bus are relatively OK. How frightened they must be to have gone through such a thing.
Think we may be having some “weather” come through to make things worse?
From KMSP TV
The I-35W bridge was built with a single 458 foot long steel arch to avoid putting any piers in the water to impede river navigation.
Seems like that is a long piece of steel to support without a pier. IMO
purplepeep
Yes they must have been; fall 20 feet,bang you head, semi right next to them on fire, and people grabbing and pulling them out of bus as fast as possible.
I bet thats one bunch of kids who’ll be hugged especially hard tonight.
My respects to those killed, and harmed. I will wait until the Navy divers have a chance to look under the water. One witness reported a thumb, then the bridge fell.
Chertoff should wait too!
Wish there was more we could do other than include the victims killed or injured and their families in our prayers tonight. I hope it wasn’t terrorism, but DHS should wait until structural engineers get a chance to check the wreckage once the recover stage is complete.
Saw this link on another blog:
http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/bridges/pages/ms16.html
There were no pilings in the river and this arch is one long piece of metal,
“Claim to fame: was built with a single 458 foot long steel arch to avoid putting any piers in the water to impede river navigation.”
Please keep praying for those involved in this tragedy and the rescue workers.
livestream from KMSP TV
Pray dear friends, pray for our fellow Americans…
#37
I notice that the new bridge just upstream from this fallen bridge as a
pier in the middle of the river.
Years ago a ship hit the pilon of the Tampa Bay bridge, taking out a section of the bridge. Among the cars that sailed a loooong way down to the bay was a Greyhound bus full of people. It is hard to imagine the horror of such an event. It was something the engineers never had planned for nor imagined could happen. No doubt we will learn something from this when it is all sorted out. It is sad for the loss of humanity. Not to minimize this tragedy, but in looking at the news footage and hearing that “all” firefighters were called to report to duty, I had in the back of my mind a larger terror event in a major city and how would we handle it? A suitcase nuke? Or…? Continue to pray for our leaders and for the protection of this great nation.
Actually the University Ave/4th St exit is just seconds from the bridge. Once you pass this exit, you’re right on the bridge.
Amazingly, there are left wingers who are blaming this on Bush. I just read a thread on Hannity’s forum, where one guy puts the blame on Bush.
We haven’t even finished counting the dead yet, for God’s sake.
Over at the Corner @ National Review, K-Lo linked to a Kos thread. I made the mistake of checking it out. Predictably awful. I was wondering how long it would take for someone to blame Bush. I got my answer.
The Ron Paul Brigade is out in force.
Tomorrow, the Haters will be blaming Bush on this tragedy too.
Oops, someone beat me on that idea.=(
Woot! I win!
It’s funny how these Leftists don’t even question the possiblity of terrorism or sabotage but automatically blame President Bush who is fighting terrorism. There have been many reports about bridges being targets for terrorists, yet they first blame Bush. They have it completely turned around. We don’t know who is crossing our borders, the background of all the illegals working as construction workers, and who is monitoring them.
I was given another quote from a left winger, but he won’t tell me where he found it.
I’m trying to find out where this is, but it’s not on the Daily Kos (surprisingly). If I find it, I’ll post it here.
well, in fairness it took all of 4 posts here before someone blamed the bridge disaster on welfare recipients.
can’t we give it a rest for one night?
For years, government at all levels has starved infrastructure maintenance in favor of political pork. I predict that once the investigation turns up structural weaknesses and design flaws that were long ignored, there will be much molar-gnashing and mea culpas and calls for comprehensive nationwide bridge inspections followed by a return to government as usual.
My e-mail immediately had calls for prayer from Elijah’s List.
All our prayers are with everyone involved, all their families and friends, first responders, everyone.
God help them all.
I hear that when many got out of their cars on the paved part that was dry, they didn’t rush off the bridge, but went instead, car to car, looking to see if others needed help.
We have a fabulous nation.
God bless them all.
I am surprised at the lack of memory and parochialism of many people reporting this. In 1983 an I95 bridge over the Mianus river in Connecticut collapsed into the river killing several people. I am saddened that many well educated people think this newest disaster is unique. It isn’t.
This bridge was already being repaired, and NOT FOR STRUCTURAL DAMAGE. People in the area that used the bridge Tuesday and earlier Wednesday said work had been being done at nights, and was scheduled for tonight as well, but that all their indications were that the STRUCTURE was sound and work was going smoothly, they were sure the work being done didn’t weaken any structures, either.
So how was the bridge being neglected?
It was about 30 years old, was inspected about 6 years ago and again in 2004, and yearly reviewed as well.
In the first minutes, everyone was wondering how long it would take the Dims to start this sort of “BUSH DID IT” attack - regarding a bridge ALREADY BEING REPAIRED.
Really bright! (Some guessed rightly - SECONDS)
I lived in Los Angeles at the time of the Northridge Quake (still do), and I did not even make the connection. For me, born and raised in NY, I think of the gas pipeline that exploded last week in NY.
Infrastructure is not a sexy topic, but it affects everybody. Mass hysteria and passing useless bills are not the answer, but this should be looked at in a non-accusatory manner.
I still Miss Senator Al D’Amato, aka “Senator Pothole.” You could write him a handwritten note and get a real response. He was one of the few who focused on these issues when others ignored them.
Lastly, I have met Tim Pawlenty and Norm Coleman. They are good, decent, kind men, and I will pray for them tonight that they are able to help the good people of their state. I suspect they will.
I will be sleeping soundly in less than 5 minutes. May all of you be peaceful as well.
Respectfully,
eric http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
This is Bush’s fault. Yes the Kos idiots just can’t help themselves. On the other hand they’re all geared up for the “big day” tomorrow in Chicago and 4 days of partying.
It is going to be a while before we know what happened and why. In the mean time, those who perished and those who will mourn them need our help and our prayers.
To those who died, and for those who mourn them:
“O God of spirits, and of all flesh, Who hast trampled down death by death,
and overthrown the Devil, and hast bestowed life upon Thy world: do Thou
Thyself, O Lord, grant rest to the souls of Thy departed servants, in a
place of brightness, a place of verdure, a place of repose, whence all
sickness, sorrow and sighing have fled away. As the gracious God, Who lovest
mankind, pardon every transgression which they have committed, whether by
word, or deed, or thought.”
[From the “Litany for the Deceased,” Orthodox Christian Devine Litany of St.
John Chrysostomos]
Blessed by their memory.
Those kids in that bus had “special” help!
Please Properly Place Blame If You’re Playing The Game
You know, I’m so damn weary of any infrastructure failure being blamed on presidents or the war, and not bad management and sheer incompetence at the design, construction and maintenance level. It’s also a specious argument to use “the bridge wouldn’t have collapsed / steam pipe wouldn’t have blown if we didn’t spend on the Iraq War.” Folks, the Iraq War wasn’t pocket change laying around to splurge; it is life insurance invested for this country. You’d hock the family jewels and kneel before your relatives for loans to keep your family home from being foreclosed, and that’s what the war funds are doing to keep this country — our families — safe. A terrorist nuke or plague would change the social and economic fabric of this country like nothing since our Civil War. It can literally turn us into a hostaged nation, and we must do everything to prevent that. We can properly maintain and protect this country with the amount of bucks we already have and likely even less, _properly managed_. When I personally see the ineptness and inefficiency of the NYC and Washington D.C. school systems — the most expensive ones in the country churning out such a pathetic return for the buck despite the government and teachers unions, I almost get physically sick. I remember all too well at the height of what should’ve been this country’s proudest moments, the Apollo landings on the moon, people and social groups ranting and railing against the project; that if we just stopped sending men and bucks to the moon we can have HEAVEN on earth! (no joke, they were that adament!) Well, we haven’t been to the moon for close to forty years and you see any heaven sea to sea yet? Let’s get real, people!
James Greenidge
Queens NY
I heard on the radio this morning that the bridge had been inspected in 2005 and 2006. Either they turned a blind eye to needed repairs or they are incompetent or they just didn’t have the money. Either way, it’s unacceptable.
With all the stories coming out now about this bridge having been flagged as having “structural deficiencies” and being scheduled for repairs in the near future … I heard on a TV report that they took over 2 years to authorize the funds to do the repairs because the money wasn’t available right away …
So someone please tell me …
HOW MANY BRIDGES COULD BE REPAIRED WITH ALL THE “PORK BARREL” SPENT MONEY?
Stevens “Bridge to nowhere” and Murtha’s $1M to a fictitious company come to mind right away.
The super-efficient Homeland Security Department was really on top of this one: they announced within 5 minutes that this had nothing to do with terrorism.
I to prayed for the people who did not make it out of this disaster and I was the person quoting the DHS at 07:20 last night Central time and I saw some people questioning my questioning of the timing:-) I just remember 9-11 when the first plane hit everyone was like what a horrible accident and then the second plane hit and we all knew that we were being attacked. The DHS is making themselves irrelevant when they immediately come out and state there is no terrorism associated, they like everyone else will have no clue until engineers are under the water examining the debris and so they should like everyone else take a wait and see attitude. By dismissing everything right off the bat they place a calmness on the American public that will lead to people not paying attention when it really counts. I think a little bit of skepticism is a necessity in this day and age.
This is an awful tragedy but, how long will it take for some moonbat lib to blame it on Bush?
xler8bmw
Check out the early posts and you will find it took mere minutes for the “Blame Bush” idiocy to start …
Due to AQ tapes, I believe the Homeland Insecurity just wants to calm the people.
I feel better, how about you?
Gayle, it does seems suspicious. Bridges in urban areas are ideal targets for Al Qaeda:
1) No security or surveillance for most bridges; 2) potential for high casualities; 3) massive damage with frightening images; 4) easy to slip across the Mexican border and pose as construction workers 5) easy to get access to the site because of the illegal alien labor used; 6) easy to sabotage the structural integrity of bridges without suspicion; 7) most construction is at night on bridges in urban areas, so it is easy to operate with public suspicion.
THXS Desert Lover! LMAO I see the conspiracy theory idiots are out too!
Does anyone have the common sense that if it was AQ there would have been a huge explosion and there would be tiny pieces of rubble and the cars would be exploded into bit.
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=3850
Surveillance video of collapse
Gabe in reference to #16 there have been many bridge collapses in US. Know how to use google?
Xler8bmw,
Really? When is the last major bridge collapse in an urban area?
I’m not saying that it was terrorism. I’m saying bridges are an extremely easy target for terrorists. You don’t have to have an explosion to take down a bridge.
You have a major bridge that has passed inspections and was not being repaired for any structural faults, and the bridge suddenly spectacularly collapses during rush hour.
It is prudent and vigilant to wonder if there could be some type of sabotage, considering how many illegals work as construction workers, how easy it is for jihadists to cross the southern border, and how odd it is for a bridge to suddenly collapse. We also know terrorists are targeting bridges.
xler8bmw
In addition I would figure that if it was anything AQ we would have had an Internet/Video claim of responsibility almost as fast as the BDS idiots were posting their sniveling BS
Gabe in reference to #72
Tacoma, Tampa, Oklahoma to name a few.
The Tappan Zee is said to be on the verge of collapse it’s life span was 50 yrs now going on 52 yrs and nothing is being done.
Actually AQ likes planes. And I would think if they really wanted to blow a bridge up it would most likely be the Brooklyn which they tried already and failed. If they really wanted to blow a bridge up MMMMM I don’t think it would have been this one more like the GWB during rush hour.
Please get a clue!
xler8bmw;
Get a clue. AQ would attack anything and anyone.
No one has emphatically stated that this was a terrorist act. It is SUSPICIOUS. Other bridges have collapsed as have planes crashing.
So what was your point again?
With the rise in AQ chatter and tapes it would cast no doubt in anyones’ minds unless they are complacent.
Why are you defending them so?
I am not defending them. I unlike you am using rational reality this was was just a horrible tragedy just like the plane that came down a month after 9/11 in Queens. This is by no means a suspicious act. Again Chicken Little get a clue and the sky isn’t falling.
That makes no sense. If jihadists wanted to take down a bridge, they would do it in a lower profile urban area where there would be far less suspicion and security, especially these days with all the security around high profile targets. A place like the Brooklyn Bridge would be the worst place to target.
I’m not saying it is terrorism. But it does give us warning how easy it would be to sabotage a bridge, especially with all the illegal labor used in construction and the free flow that comes across the southern border. If not now, sooner or later, unless we secure our borders.
It could have been a trial run for all you know.
Don’t start bashing us for at least giving it the benefit of the doubt.
No chickens on this site btw.
Actually Gabe you really need to smarten up. The first Bridge they went after was Brooklyn Bridge because they don’t want low profile explosions. And it was stopped by DHS they actually caught them at the bridge. I live NYC so I remember it quite well. Iyman Faris was his name and he pleaded guilty. You conspiracy people crack me up you can’t buy comedy like this!
It’s just hilarious.
I would remind everyone here that it is not necessary to blow up a bridge - merely weaken it at critical points. Al queda’s civil and mechanical demolition team would be sophisticated enough to get plans and know where the weak spots are. There are no specific checks to determine if members of a construction and repair team is Muslim let alone al queda. (I saw Muslim Congressman Ellison talking about the horrors of the collapse and wondered why him.)
Having said this, I doubt that this is a terrorist attack, but such a thing should never be ruled out post 9/ until all of the facts have been gathered. Ultimately, this is great fodder for the crazy loonies who love conspiracy theories involving the government and someone they hate.
For people who put a lot of stock in science (especially versus religion), they sure have a poor grasp of physics and gravity.
This is a tragedy, but - of course - it’s America, Bush, and conservatives’ fault.
It has nothing to do with poor inspections, the mis-handling of tax dollars, or the basic habit of politicians that forces them to put money into needless mid-level bureaucrat positions, failed programs, and other wasteful endeavors.
My heart goes out to the people of MN and Minneapolis. Our prayers are with you.
One unintended consequence of the media’s saturation coverage of this disaster is that politicians might feel free to make under-the-table deals without scrutiny. Vigilance is called for.
May the good people of the Twin Cities no longer undergo any more sorrow.
My prayers go out to the first responders and paramedics, as reporting to MCI’s (Mass Casualty Incidents) can take its psychological toll. Thank God the school bus didn’t go into the water.
That bridge is very close to where we live. It’s the route we take home from the Home Depot, (at the Quarry in NE for my fellow Minneapolitans/Twin Cities residents.) If you want to bring politics into it, then I guess you could say that since MN is basically a socialist state, this is what you get in a socialist state, people. More focus on giving handouts and painting crappy urban art murals with Che Guevara painted on them, than engineering and infrastructure.
Multi-span bridges are generally designed such that each span is independent of the others (with the exception of shared pilings) so that if one span were to fail, the others would remain standing. In this failure, ALL the spans came down. This would argue that there was either a major design flaw that undermined the independence of the spans, or there were multiple failure initiation sites. Multiple failure sites argues strongly for sabotage.
Related?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291809,00.html
First, hat off and bow to LC who said:
I referred incorrectly to the nature of the bridge collapes. Thank-you.
Second, a puzzled look at derel3433 who said:
I was the fourth poster. Please identify anywhere in my post where i referred to “welfare recipients”.
I didn’t even refer to “entitlement programs.”
I used the term “benefits” in relationship to citizens specifically because it casts a wide net around a very serious problem when it comes to state and municipal financing of major infrastructure projects *which require long term maintenance*.
Frankly, to “give it a rest for one night” more is part of the problem.
No disrespect intended. No offense taken. Merely standing on my two hind legs to make sure that what I said is projected accurately.
xler8bmw said:
“THXS Desert Lover! LMAO I see the conspiracy theory idiots are out too!
Does anyone have the common sense that if it was AQ there would have been a huge explosion and there would be tiny pieces of rubble and the cars would be exploded into bit.”
It is obvious that you know nothing about how bridges are taken out with explosives. It would not have to be a huge explosion to bring it down. Small charges in the right place would bring this bridge down in a heart beat using gravity to accomplish the task.
Rorschach spelled it out in very simple terms and he is right.
I will wait for the investigation but this bridge collapse is highly suspicious and it is not a conspiracy when people question the fact that DHS said it was not a terrorist attack with no information for them to base that announcement on within the first 30 minutes after the collapse.
In fact, I am surprised that Chertoff did not encourage all of us to spend money and ignore the whole thing like he has done in the past. DHS has zero credibility because of the past statements that mirror the one made about this tragedy.
Not quite, derel3433 - it took 23 posts to blame welfare, not 4.
If we wanna blame something in Minnesota, maybe the billions spent building light rail from Downtown Minneapolis to the Mall of America might get a little.
Unfortunately many of us are also Timberwolves fans…
Scotty Dog in reference #89
You’re obviously confused how AQ wwouldn’t use a controlled demolition environment. And I doubt this bridge was high on their list to destroy considering they started with WTC and an attempt on the Brooklyn Bridge.
Thanks for your thoughts chicken little.
Whatever the “cause” there is likely to be more than one. But there is a big difference between “inspection” and “repairing” “retrofitting” and “maintenance”.
When it comes to paying for stuff, state and municipal governments have a heckuva time balancing their priorities.
Paying benefits to the poor, sick, elderly and other qualified recipients is an awesome responsibility.
Making sure infrastructure is solvent and in good repair is an awesome responsibility.
Unfortunately both disbursement systems are frought with inadequacies, shall we say?
And both mean life or death for millions across the country.
In the short term, as private citizens, we benefit with a huge time dividend from not having to spend personal time holding state and municipal government accountable through our participation in active, organized oversight activities.
In the long run, if too many of us fail in our civic duty to participate in said oversight, we pay. Sometimes with our lives.
Our country is so bountiful because we have roads and bridges.
And leaving aside the sheisters selling “lite rail” and “transit village” contracts to municipalities, few solutions offer the efficiency of having good quality roads and bridges available for personal and commercial transport.
That abundance is taken for granted by many in this country. My kids don’t give roads a second thought. I don’t. My business and my family’s survival depends on them. But rather than depict that as a “dangerous dependence”, I prefer to call it what it is: common sense solutions to practical needs which need long term maintenance.
Suspending judgement for the moment about whether the bridge collapsed due to terrorist attack or not, I hope we can have a wider discussion across the country about infrastructure.
I say this because recently here in the Bay Area a gasoline tanker truck overturned while passing underneath a major connector here near the Bay Bridge.
It caught fire and burned. The heat of the blaze melted the steel and the connector structure melted. (kinda put a dent in the Truther theory that the jet fuel fires on 9/11 couldnt have melted the steel).
Was it terror related? Who knows. It was the second time one of that company’s trucks blew up and burned.
The point is it accentuated a mindset among some of us here in town that any type of infrastructure disaster is something that will figure into our day to day survival and quality of life.
So why has our City just spent $3 million to buy a sliver of land for a freaking bike path project, and our disaster preparedness program has to beg for money?
Priorities skewed by abundance. Fantasyland. Taking advantage of property owners who pay taxes. Abusing the “initiative” ballot in our state to fund “Green” horsesh*t projects that need maintenance and future spending- too high of an opportunity cost at the expense of roads and bridges, and disaster preparedness.
My point: my cronies and I have increased our oversight of local government proceedings on infrastructure issues because Our survival depends on it.
Ms. Malkin,
We spend so much time on things that matter so little. Please spend a lot of time on this Minnesota tragedy if you can. Thank you for your coverage so far.
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/08/02/minnesota-to-new-yorki-miss-senator-pothole-aka-al-damato/
Respectfully,
eric
at this point no one really knows what brought down the bridge.
But I can say this… inspected every 2 years? Unlikely. I realize that every state is different. But here in Maine we have exactly one 2-person crew that does bridge inspections for the entire state. They are certifed divers due to the fact that most inspections require checking of underwater pilings. But one team for every bridge in a state full of rivers? There are over 5K bridges here. They don’t get inspected every 2 years.
Of course it could be the fact that it has no pilings. Perhaps the engineering or construction of that bridge was not correct.
Or the fact that there is a rather large contingient of jihadis living in MN.
But eventually the facts will come out. In the meantime… everyone needs to stop rushing to lay blame. The finger pointing is so… kindergarten.
Correct, but some folks are more given to panic and episodes of “Truther-ism”.
No skin off my nose if folks feel the need to grab the plastic & duct tape and run screaming into the basement where they can safely contemplate a multitude of conspiracy theories.
It does make the eyes roll, though, since I know catastrophic tragedies happen and that gravity is an especially cruel mistress. No need for me to blame poor people, Bush, illegals, muslims, the CIA, the media, whatever for horrible accidents.
“so kindergarten” ???? Speaking for myself, I am assuming the probability of infrastructural failure is greater than a terrorist strike. Making attributions based on that calculated assumption is not something a kindergartner is likely to do.
Just delimiting the reach of your Jennifer Aniston and “Friends”-like use of the word “so” while pointing your own digital digit.
Just last week there was a horrible fire in Dallas. On Fox4news the firemen were clearly watching the fire burn down until they could get close enough to fight it. No one had been even close enough to do anything. On cue, DHS issued a statement that it wasn’t terror related.
I pray for all the families of those lost they will have their hearts eased knowing how much the country mourns with them. Every tragedy brings out the best of what we as Americans are.
A friend of the family almost lost a 5 year old son, as the son was in transit from his day camp, traveling on his way home, just 5 minutes from crossing the bridge before it collapsed.
We never know.
So now it it’s known the bridge “failed”.
Is it safe to discuss the possibilities or will that be misconstrued as “finger pointing”?
In reference to post #50–
I found that link, finally, thanks to a friend. Not that it matters anymore, but at least I can make good on my promise.
[url]http://www.airamerica.com/node/4701?from=90&comments_per_page=90[/url]
Ah yes. Air America. Plenty of Bush hating to be found there. The specific comment I posted is a little bit about the half way point on the page.
Minn. bridge problems uncovered in 1990
AP
MINNEAPOLIS - Minnesota officials were warned as early as 1990 that the bridge that collapsed into the Mississippi River was “structurally deficient,” yet they relied on a strategy of patchwork fixes and stepped-up inspections.
“We thought we had done all we could,” state bridge engineer Dan Dorgan told reporters not far from the mangled remains of the span. “Obviously something went terribly wrong.”
Ya Normsrevenge I noticed that story too.
I was also surprised (NOT) to see the front page story on my local newspaper
State to look at Bridge Inspection Program
gee.. big surprise… oh by the way I was wrong yesterday we don’t have 5K bridges only 3k bridges in Maine. But the state acknowledges that at least 10% are are structurally deficient. Nice….
@bear1909
Never having seen Jennifer Aniston or Friends I’m going to assume that you a point there.
But I don’t know what it is.
You can finger point all you want. It’s been two days… ONE when you decided to take me to task over it. They still don’t know what caused that bridge to fail. Only that it did.
Was it design? Was it maintenance or lack thereof? I heard one theory stating it was road salt usage.
But you, in your ultimate wisdom know EXACTLY what brought it down and are ready to point fingers and file lawsuits.
Go ahead… I don’t care.
Because one other thing I learned in Kindergarten was that some kids just don’t ‘get it’.
It’s Not Iraq. It’s Local Incompetence.
Well, I hope when our shocked-shocked-shocked politicians droolingly jump to slash funding the “needless” war against terror in a frenzy of compassionate infrastructure reconstruction, that they figure in not the just the cost of fixing bridges and roads (which THEY long neglected), but the cost of rebuilding an entire city (or cities) out of nuclear rubble.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
In 2005, Congress passed and Bush signed the largest highway bill ever. (See http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=35925) Wonder what Minnesota did with their share? They’ve hit the lottery now, though. The money will come flying in. Wonder what they’ll do with it now?
One of our interns just blamed Gov. Pawlenty’s veto of a spending bill on the bridge collapse. Unbelievable.
We also just “Voted Yes!” on a referendum that was put in on the 2006 ballot allocating a certain amount of our taxes to go JUST to MNDot, (the dept of transportation.) Where did that money go? Fiscal retard thy name is Minnesotan. You’re talking about a state where the regular Democratic party is too conservative so there’s the DFL, (dumb f-ing liberals as I call them.) And this is the first state to launch a class-action lawsuit against “big tobacco” and win. Where did the money for that go? Did it go toward some sort of medical program, (free patches, free nicorette gum, etc) something that may have helped people get off of tobacco like it was supposed to? No, of course not. It went to those goofy “Truth” ads which only make me want to smoke. I get a nic fit everytime I see one - I have to turn the channel. As I stated: fiscal retard, thy name is Minnesotan. Don’t expect the people of this state to do anything rational with the highway money.