Daily Kos diarist: Still thinks troops are “morally retarded”
Update 8/6 12:11pm Eastern. La Shawn Barber muses on the sea of middle-aged white males at Ykos.
Update 8/6 9:05am Eastern. Must-read of the morning–Rick Moran reflects on his adventure at YKos. He reports on nutroots zeal, the unbearable whiteness of the left-wing blogosphere (and the double standards in making such observations), and concludes with a warning that I’ve made myself before:
Ignore or make sport of the netroots at your own peril. Underestimate them and you will get the holy living crap kicked out of you in 2008. These people are organizing far beyond blogs and blog readers. And that organization extends almost down to the precinct level as I’m sure next year’s Netroots Convention will show (they’ve decided to rename the shindig in order to move it away from one guy’s blog).
They are determined, well funded, optimistic, committed, and excited. The GOP is uncertain, underfunded, hopeful but pessimistic, dispirited, and seemingly leaderless, rudderless, and without an agenda.
Who do you think is in better shape going into next year’s contest?
***
Well, the YearlyKos convention is over, but the nutroots are still marching on. A few weeks ago, Kos himself assailed “nasty rhetoric” that was “rampant in the primary war diaries” of the Daily Kos website. Yet, the site went ahead and featured a troop-bashing rant by Saturday Night Live has-been A. Whitney Brown, who wrote:
“Do I still support the individual men and women who have given so much to serve their country? No. I think they’re a bunch of idiots. I also think they’re morally retarded.”
The guy is itching for more attention. I know I’m violating the no-troll-feeding rule here, but the post sheds needed light on the same anti-military animus that led to the squelching of Sergeant David D. Aguina at the YKos convention last week (see Rick Moran’s interview).
Brown has posted another diatribe at Kos repeating his smear on our men and women in uniform as “morally retarded.” A snippet:
For this view, I have been called Anti-Military.
My response is this: Who on earth could be Pro-Military! The purpose of a military is to kill. It is at best a necessary evil. Necessary only because someone else has a military that threatens our survival.
Pro-Military? That’s like being Pro-Abortion! Or Pro-chemo-therapy!
No! In a world of ignorance, greed, and ambition it is a practical matter that we defend our peace and security against the militaries of others, but the goal is always to have as little military as needed, and no more than absolutely necessary. Currently we spend more than all the rest of the world put together.
A military is an extortion demanded of us by other militaries, a practical acquiesence to the world as it is, but only a sadist, a brute, a glory-monger, a thief or a tyrant can look at a military as a good thing, noble in itself.
Only a society blind with avarice or fear would see a military as anything other than an indictment of our inability to persuade! And yes, an indictment of our courage to try.
Here is an Unknown Known - something we all know but are not aware we know: A Man Cannot Be a Hero in Service To an Unjust Cause. What kind of society would rob it’s (sic) soldiers in such a way? A twisted, sickened society.
Hillary? Obama? John Edwards? Any comment?
***
More Kos Kraziness: Swooning over Gitmo poetry.
***
Frank J. follows up on the squelching of Sgt. Aguina and boils down moonbat debate tactics:
So here is how liberals avoid debate on the war for those keeping score:
* You’ve Never Served: You’re a chickenhawk so they ignore the merits of your argument.
* You Did Serve: You’re still a chickenhawk for not serving now so they ignore the merits of your argument.
* You Are Serving: It’s illegal for you to speak about the war so they ignore the merits of your argument.
Collin B. thinks Kos should address his inconsistency.
See what others have said
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- Kos Kids Support The Troops, YAY! « Nice Deb
Mm, there’s nothing like watching someone who still isn’t ready for prime time wrap his so-far-left-I’ve-fallen-off-the-map hate speech in psuedointellectualism to help you really appreciate the sacrifices that so many of our countrymen make even more. If they can sign up knowing the potentially deadly nature of their service, and also knowing that they’re out there protecting the rights of idiots like A. Whitney Brown, they’re to be admired.
Which has what to do with the price of bananas?
It is called “National Defense”. On its face saying we spend more than all the other nations of the world combined, I am not surprised that it is so.
The total expenditure buys more than just the firepower and troops to attack. It includes in the *personnel costs* of having a standing Navy, Army, Air Force, National Guard and Reserves, Coast Guard, and Marine Corps active and reserve, plus all Reserve Officer training programs at colleges and universities, military academies, and Veterans administration.
it includes the pension and retirement benefits for career personnel who commit the lion’s share of their productive working years defending this country, and being prepared to go at a moment’s notice while this “critic” has the leisure time to miseducate her/himself to the point of writing such a screed.
We are a great nation. Some of our 50 states are great in their own right as economic powers in the world, being among the top 10 economies in the world.
That didn’t come from building solar panels and growing organic vegetables to sell at the local farmers market.
It came out of being able to produce items of value that are vital to our national defense, from food and fiber (the kind needed for clothing) to high technology to uses for oil and chemicals, production of goods and services for space travel, and knowledge-based commodities that are revolutionizing commerce around the world.
The investment in those assets I just mentioned above are also totaling more than the rest of the world spends on such things….because those nations do not have the security and economic stability to make it happen. Their defense and security comes from somewhere else….and in all due fairness to our military, their security (NATO-the EU- UN) is inferior grade.
I wonder, does our scholar include in what we spend on “the military” the cost of what we spend on NATO and the feckless UN (the diplomatic alternative to blood and guts house to house fighting in Iraq?)
/rant
My trip to In and Out Burger got me all fired up.
What’s most frightening to me that such specious idealistic pacifism today in a brutal world might well get millions of our families killed.
James Greenidge
Queens NY
Word up, James.
They refer to themselves as “Street Prophets”.
The only prophecy they will fulfill is the one you refer to.
I read his entire piece. Some of my time this week will go toward taking it apart line by line, rebutting it, and posting it.
This hit a nerve with me. I had just returned from the city of Alameda California after passing through to get some of the best ice cream on earth.
My family and I went across the street to an independent bookstore. Had never been inside.
I knew I was in for a rough time: George T’s book about the CIA was front and center. All the books about the Middle East were historical re-writes of the Israeli victory in the 6 Day War, about a former US Marine’s love affair with al-Jazeera, and other apologies for invading Iraq. Not one book about Jihad and Radical Islam.
The store did not carry any of Robert Spencer’s books, Michelle Malkin’s, O’Reilly’s or Savage’s. Not one. But there is the book about Hillary “…in Charge”, and Obama’s “…Hope”, and Gore’s “Assault on Reason”.
This country is whistling past the graveyard while it’s greatest hope is fighting house to house in Iraq.
I know that for me personally, should we be attacked more disasterously than on 9/11 (i can’t even get my head around that), I won’t be half as devastated as these “street prophets” and their followers. They will be dashed- because they believe that if we just lay down our guns and talk to the people who “hate us” we will all just “get along”. Not once do they think that jihad has a long history against us and it didn’t start because of the Shah of Iran or “big oil”.
They have no intel and precious little intelligence with which to seek it out.
They do not want to see this conflict from all sides.
Canaries in a coal mine they are. And the next attack will lead many of them to obscurity because they are mainly elites and elitists who mock reality with their “comedy” and “Fake News”. What happens when it all comes down and gets very real? They will have their livlihoods destroyed.
It’s called H-U-B-R-I-S. And narcissists are *classically hubristic*. They can’t help it- it is how they stay alive psychically.
They have hijacked a line from Marvin Gaye “War is not the answer.”
Ya. It isn’t the answer. It is the question of the ages: “What do you believe in enough to die for?”
Collin B?
That link just goes to the new official Kos explanation, until they can dream up a better one.
The majority of the left is stuck in a sort of perpetual adolescence. It isn’t surprising if you consider what our current society values as seen via popular culture icons, advertising and entertainment. Society seems to worship the young, hip and edgy while stability, mastery and experience are looked down upon as staid and stodgy.
The young, callow anti-war partisans of the 60s and 70s grew into old, idiologically blinded, anti-military, anti-US political hacks. It’s almost as if liberal idiology has become a religion to them instead of a political or philosophical position. And that religion is based on eternal youth and hipness gained by following liberal principles without question. Just stick your fingers in your ears and lalalala your way to world peace.
Sort of a face lift and tummy tuck for your soul.
A. Whitney Brown
Well at least Mr. Brown knows how to describe the weird-out world of Kos.
bear1909
Well said … so maybe with all those “Geico moments (existential meltdowns)” ahead we should build more asylums … sounds like we are going to need all the padded cells we can build …
Of course these are the same fools that like to throw it out that every time there is an emergency, e.g. Katrina, Mn Bridges, etc., we don’t have enough National Guard to call out to help …
They seem to forget that the main purpose of the NG is not to be their personal rescue department … they are there as part of the very military that these idiots like to put down …
So people who lay down their lives for freedom are “morally retarded”?
What about people who support abortion, euthanasia, are anti-religious, and bigoted (often to the point of violence) towards those who disagree with them are…what, exactly?
Right.
In the Kos world, black is white, up is down, right is wrong, and everything is a**-backwards.
My husband just asked if I’ve ever tried reading the Daily Kos. If I wanted that sort of mind-bending experience, I’d take drugs…at least drugs wouldn’t make me feel as dirty as visiting that festering garbage heap of a website.
Don’t dis monkeys like that.
Did any one check the link: Swooning over Gitmo poetry.
Its a well written poem, too well written. I did not think it was possible to translate arabic into english so well, or can he write english that well? And it seems to be missing several “praise be to allas.”
So I’m going to become morally retarded?
I’m fine with that.
Where do I sign?
- I have always pelt that “Pacifism” is nothing more than shilling for our countries enemies. They are the only ones that benefit when we do not defend ourselves.
- It remains to be seen if this KOSsification of the Democcratic party ill have any repercussions in a general election. It is all well good to pander to Kos “Mini-Stalin” and his ilk in the primary. Lets see what the moderates think.
- As a veteren (And I only point this out to avoid cries of ChickenHawk from any Libs that may lurk here) there is no doube in my mind that we are in Iraq for the right reasons. I only wish that we had the will to use the full potential of our military might. Then we could finish this “clash of civilizations” pretty quick.
DesertLover #8:
Thanks. And you captured the gist of these two-faced jiberals’ view of the NG as their personal rescuers in the event of disaster.
The jiberal doesn’t understand “the common good”. They are too busy studying the “Tragedy of the commons”- something based on FEUDAL SOCIETY, in which a strong *MAN* provides the land for the “COMMONS” in the first place.
Out here in Berserk-O-ville Berkeley, the jiberals are busy voting to have local tax money spent on land for friggin bike paths while short changing our police, fire, and emergency responder teams, another group viewed with contempt unless there is an emergency.
There is more philanthropic money spent across this country funding the ACLU and the National Lawyers Guild to prosecute perceived and alleged police misconduct than there are donations to the charities and activities sponsored by first responders to build strong communities.
But as Al Pacino said in “Sea of Love”: “Oh, that is so $*#(@@!!! terrible that I am a @@^%@@!!! cop!!! That is just too much. But come the wet *ss hour, I gotta be everybody’s daddy!”
Exactly how jiberals think. Let the government take care of me. This is so pervasive here on the Left coast. The bike riders here do not obey the simplest traffic laws *in traffic*. If they get hit, they expect the state to take care of their disability, guarantee their income, and help them pay for the lawyer to sue the person who is unfortunate to have hit them.
Savage is right: Jiberalism is a mental disorder.
What a way to get me all spun up before Monday! I think I should go to the VA and pick up some more meds. The Daily Kos puts this smut on their website, no comment from Hillary, Obama, and Edwards. If asked, I’m sure they will say it’s just somebody’s opinion. At the same time they pander to the nutroots. Are the nutroots really the far left or has this become the mainstream for the Dems?
The monkeys are funny as hell.
Speaking your mind in uniform is only cool if you’re AGAINST the war. Here Kos defends a marine who protested the war in uniform:
So is all of Daily Kos un-American for trying to silence Sgt. Aguina?
I’ve always wondered how these wimps would act in a bar fight.
wimp,”Hey that’s my wife”.
aggressor,”Yeah well she’s mine now metro sexual”.
wimp,”well maybe we can negotiate who has possession”.
What a man huh ladies?
You could have ended your question right there…
People tear down when they have no ability to build up. People criticize others when they have no abilities themselves.
The left in this country stands for nothing, except hatred of conservatives. We know what they are against. Maybe one day they will be for something.
Even on the rare days the left talks about improving the world, it does not matter, because the talk is not followed by actions.
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/04/25/liberals-talk-about-improving-the-world-conservatives-actually-do-it/
Educating the left is, as the cliche says, like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig. The solution is to defeat them at the ballot box, and then implement common sense conservative solutions.
Respectfully,
eric http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
Lets see—
20 years of service.
Alot of deployments.
Visited more countries than I have fingers and toes to count on.
Helped liberate Yugoslavia.
Eaten more interesting cuisine than I could translate.
OIF Vet.
Yes, vets can honestly say that they have lived a life more fulfilling than the vast majority of Americans can ever claim. The sad thing the left can’t make these claims..
Of course the bigger question is: How many people have been liberated by the policies of socialism versushow many have been killed or murdered for standing up against tyranny?
“Dhimitude or Freedom?-Your Choice!”
If he believes in what he said so much, I’d like to see A. Whitney Brown read that garbage in front of a group of Marines returning from Iraq. He wouldn’t have the courage. What am I talking about? No one on the left has courage. They just throw insults from the safety of their own convention. Sergeant David D. Aguina displayed the courage that the left lacks. He walked right into their den and stood by his convictions. What a contrast.
Yes, someone else has deemed it necessary, and that would be enemies of our Country who hate freedom and hate our way of life. The purpose of the Military is to defend the United States of America against enemy combatants who would threaten our freedoms.
Necessary ONLY because someone else has an army that will threaten our existence? ONLY??
You know I really wish that there was a way for us to put a very obvious mark on people with opinions like this. A huge target that says “I am not supported by the US Military — I fight my own battles!” They can even have their tax dollars diverted from the cause.
That way when (and NOT if) terrorists on our soil decide to strike again then we can let people like this figure out how to deal with them with out any killing going on. This is not the way it will unfold though. When this idiot needs protecting our men and women in uniform will do it with great sacrifices. They will save his sorry butt, whether he appreciates it or not.
One other idea is to drop this moron off in the middle of an Al Qaeda hot spot and let him “persuade” them with no weapons and no military in sight. He obviously has no clue about the utter moral depravity and the total lack of any regard, whatsoever, for human life that these animals have.
As usual, the guy misses the point completely (surprised, anyone). His comparison of support for the military to abortion or chemotherapy are deeply flawed, but consistent w/ the left’s dehumanization of what position they wish to support (as w/ abortion: it’s a lot easier to end that pregnancy when you don’t consider it’s a growing human being!). If the writer doesn’t get that his analogies are bad, then I guess that goes to show a deficiency in intelligence - do they still include analogies as a major part of SATs, or have they been deemed “culturally biased”and/or too diificult (duh) and removed?!). The military is made up of people. One can be against a policy that puts us in a theater of war, but considering that 99+% of all the men/women serving have zero impact on that policy, the lack of support is just mind numbing. This is even more puzzling in that the writer concedes that a military is a necessary “evil”.
One culd go on and on cutting this thing to shreds (and from reading the comments, it looks like someone will), but one other point is that if you were to take all of the GNPs of all the countries that are reliant upon the US for their security (ie, our military), wholly or partially, (and let’s be honest, other than a handful, most of those are”wholly”), our spending probably isn’t that disproportionate: Europe, Japan, So Korea, . . . There is NO other country in the world that currently has the capacity and capability to deploy substancial troops away from their country for any true conflict.
A.Whitless Brown, You’re right this Troll can starve and rot for all I care. Saving my breath.
Kos’ inconsistency is this:
I’d not realized that certain vocal political participation is apparently out of bounds for active military personnel. But why is it wrong for the YKos attendee and it is right for The Angry Rakkasan. As stated, “Being an Army officer myself” reflects an inconsistency that should be addressed.
http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com/2007/08/for-gander.html
Whether we like it or not the US Military has become the world’s police force.
The leftists like to say everything should be done by the U.N. (Useless Ninnies) … they forget the fact that the U.S. Military ALWAYS comprises around 75% (or more) of any “U.N. Force” … peacekeepers or ?????
They want to have their cake and eat it too.
But they don’t want to be reminded that it is the U.S. Miltary that makes all of that possible in the first place.
Trolls. There once was a troll at the lamest of the lame blogs at the RNC run GOP.com blog/forum that said that the military was nothing but a bunch of stupid people with guns.
Those SAME “stupid people” with guns lay their lives on the line for the poster called mamalicious.
So, who is stupid?
“The left” are communists in disguise. How about a 4th category: Served, waiting to get back in the action again? A National Guard troop not on active duty is free to express his opinions. The Social-democrats would tear down our Constitution so that they can have ultimate authority and power–and begin killing millions more Americans–just like the Soviets did.
Most of Brown’s logic is, in fact, solid - unless you are an imperialist.
Unless you are looking to spread your society via the tip of a spear, you only need enough military to defend yourself. And, yes, anything beyond this is wasteful.
The trouble is, Brown doesn’t finish his own argument. Do we have enough to defend ourselves?
Sweden, per capita, spends far less on defense than we do. Good for them. I am jealous. Then again, I don’t recall seeing towers in Stockholm collapsing.
Japan, by any measure, spends only a trifle compared to what we spend. Think about all of the technology this allows them to invest in. Sanely I am, again, envious. But I can’t recall seeing the Japanese Diet being attacked, can you?
The great Dwight Eisenhower very much felt this way. His farewell speech is completely focused on this very point. Surplus military capacity *is* wasteful. The question that Brown ignores is: do we have a surplus. Regardless of whether we are #1 or #100, that doesn’t answer the question.
As for war being horrible, and something that no sane person would support, Brown is again only echoing the words of many great soldiers. Remember, the man who said “War is all hell,” wasn’t an entertainer or a philosopher. He was a man who had seen more than his share of battle, and was actually admonishing a class of cadets during their graduation to not consider war in any way glorious. Sherman, the author of the quote, is also quoted as referring to war, at it’s best, as barbarism.
But he also had the emotional maturity to recognize that while the task was barbaric, the men perpetrating it weren’t barbarians. Brown, childishly, does not.
Part of being an adult is recognizing that there are many necessary evils in the world that must be endured for the greater good. Physicians don’t stab children with needles out of pleasure; they do it because it must be done. Firemen don’t walk into burning buildings because they love the smell of smoke; it’s a necessary danger that they sometimes must take to save the rest of the neighborhood.
Doctors are necessary evils. Firemen are necessary evils. So what? Only an imbecile would extrapolate that to mean that doctors and firemen are morally retarded.
An intelligent adult would recognize that those who perpetrate socially necessary evils *are*, in fact, heroes. It is Brown, in criticizing them, that shows himself to be the fool.
Kos and youtube are the only place the hack can continue his career..what an ass
Is every body happy? You get to call all liberals anti-military. What fun!
Please note the last refuge for which you wingnuts cling to support a failed Iraq and Afghanistan policies is to claim that those who sincerely oppose those policies as being “anti-military” or “unpatriotic.”
Instead of confronting the fact that there has been no political progress in Iraq and that your beloved troops are caught in the middle of a civil war, you just try to find any remark by any person no matter how irrelevant to prove…what I don’t know?
Please note: I was reading Doris Kearns Goodwin’s “Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln” this weekend. Mr. Lincoln while in Congress questioned why President Polk started the Mexican War. His career almost was destroyed. No doubt if MM and all of you were around in 1840s you would make certain Lincoln would never hold any office.
Some of you also forget that Ike repeatedly warned of the dangers of the military-industrial complex and refused to waste money on unnecessary arms build up.
That is the problem with this country there will always be morons and useful idiots who will wrap themselves in the flag and claim they speak for the troops and if you ever question any military action at all you will be sure to be labled “un-American.”
At the risk of being repetative, try reading now and then Mike. Iraq’s improvements in the areas of security will lead to improvements politically. Stable society only exists under the protection of security. Once the security exists and people stop worrying about getting blown up or killed in the night, they strat to work on other things. The fact that this has been explained time and time again and you still fail to miss it only suggests your total commitmnt to the LN.
Again, there IS in fact major progress being made. The political progress which is now coming about is a direct result of the security the Surge is helping to instill. Also, I was un-aware that major, MAJOR portions of the country, both Sunni and Shite siding with Coalition Forces against those bent on ruining that country was a civil war. Perhaps you should stop reading the same back issues on the NYT as Sen Reid.
Are we at least allowed to call them “un-american” when they call every man and woman in the military “morally retarded”?
Or when they directly attack the military?
Seriously, question away. I honestly don’t mind that. But the second you go from “questioning” to “outright attacking”, we start to have a slight problem.
Mainly that I want to punch you in the face.
As I said, a minor problem.
MikeB,
Wingnuts again….geez, maybe I spoke to soon to keep you here. Thats twice you’ve used that term to describe us/me. But I guess were even I called you a Whacko.
Aj, I appreciate your help. But, why is wingnut worse than nutroot?
Point taken, But personally I dont use nutroots, did you even read Whitlesses comments, cmon…..now I’m going back to saving my breath….
Please enlighten this great-grandmother (WWII Gold Star Sis)…Is KOS someone’s name or an acronym? The local rabbi wrote an op-ed on pacifism and it was rebutted thoroughly by a local columnist. As a newlywed Army wife I worked as a temp with a lovely Jewish lady who was interred in one concentration camp while her husband and son were in another. I forgot how they reconnected and went from S.America to U.S., but will never forget their kindness to me. I was surprised a rabbi would be a pacifist. I’m a fan of MM because she represents the way I think.
Out of curiousity, is there a source for that? I was just scanning Wikipedia (not the most reliable source, but sometimes useful):
This might be old information though.
The most recent report says the U.S. is 42nd with 313 members.
Pakistan, Bangladesh and India form the top 3 contributors.
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/contributors/2007/jun07_2.pdf
Desertlover, I totally understand the argument that the entire U.S. Military could be considered a “peacekeeping force.” But I was wondering if you were using this logic in your 75% claim.
RobM1981,
I am not quite sure where you are going with your post. You start out like you suppoort the KOs Kid and argue simply that he hasn’t “finish(ed) his argument” Then you sort of argue the same flawed point the KOS kid did - who do you think really protects Sweden’s security? Same Q goes for Japan (per my earlier comment). And then you question the overall logic of the Kos Kid’s too much military point, but you don’t really ever get anywhere on supporting it or not.
Secondly, I dont see MM or anyone here pushing for a military simply for the sake of deploying it and using it, so from whence came your “spread your society via the tip of a spear” comment?
It is the sad fate of the world today that the US ends up being the world’s police force, mostly at their request,either directly or via the inept UN while we continue to be criticized at home and abroad for that.
Aj, I did read Whitless’s comments. When he criticized individual troops, that’s wrong. But, his remarks about military buildup and the like were similar to what George Washington, James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams and Ike have said. War is not something to glorify and it should be our last resort, not first.
Mike….What a croc. If any of you idiotic ultra libs had a pair we would have been out of Iraq by now. You and your tedious cadre of antis have done nothing but prop up the killers in Iraq. You do not support the troops, you are un-american and you are undeniably responsible for thousands of innocents deaths. You refuse to take a stand which leads to Rwanda, Darfur, the Gulags, the holocaust, and on and on. Those that would create carnage and death don’t want to be your friend, or live in the world we all want, American or otherwise. I for one agree that the powerful and wealthy help create the monsters, but we can’t all sit back, like you do, light a candle, wrap a scarf around our faces and march in some adolescent protest. You can and will not change anything in the world with what has never worked, ever, consequently choices have to be made. Do we support a scumbag like Cheney and Rumsfeld or do we bitch and do nothing as Clinton did? Is Iraq the right war? You and your buddies have shown your anti-troop, american, selves with your refusal to accept the statements of all but a few in the US government, all major intelligent services, and even your precious UN inspectors and their belief that Saddam was a major threat, that he was simply stalling for time, that he was brutalizing the people of Iraq, and ultimately that he needed to be removed. All of these things have been pushed aside to make way for a low level Wilson and a memo from Downing street. You easily rally behind ex prisoners who hate America and scream torture while at the same time you decry American soldiers as Pol Pot or Stalin and call them men who would “terrorize children in the dead of night”. You have shown yourselves with your constant critisms of the policies of the US. You have shown yourselves with your torture rhetoric, and you have now come to to only logical place left. I am simply waiting for the spittle to fly.
It’s sad when a guy who was never relevant during the heyday of his career is now grasping at straws.
…and for everyone else, let’s try and not feed MikeB today. It’s too early in the week to have to deal with that nonsense
Boy I must have been a real idiot to waste 25 years of my life to serve my country.
5 Air Force Specialty Codes (sampled 5 different careers), 3,600 hours of flying time, saved 3 aircraft during emergency aerial refueling, ran away from 4 burning aircraft, traveled the entire world, helped win the “Cold War” pulling SAC alert, hand picked to crew the new KC-10 tanker in 1985, grounded due to Addison’s Disease in 1990, but still allowed to serve, sent to Ethiopia in 1994 with $500,000 and M-9 with 30 rounds to pay for expenses to airlift a mechanized battalion to Rwanda to stop the slaughter, 4 years working the INF and START treaties as a US National Escort, attended more leadership training then any private company or individual can get, completed my AA in Financial Management, and earned a BS in Manufacturing Engineering “Cum Laude.” Seen more things and done more than most will ever see or do in a lifetime, put up with limitations on where I should live, what I can say while barely making ends meet to take care of my wife and son. Still can’t talk about some of the operations I was on, but was worth every minute of it and would gladly do it all again.
Tried the private sector, but with most manufacturing jobs being outsourced overseas and the volatility of the Technical sector, got laid off after 8 months making semi-conductors, but found a home working at Mountain Home AFB, ID.
Still serving in Civil Service for the past 6 years fighting the battle of the budget to try to work with the meager funds allocated to stateside bases to operate on (most funding goes overseas where folks are getting shot at and that is where it should go). I get to work next to young men and women who are extremely intelligent and dedicated and know what they are risking as they continue to deploy against the common enemy of Western civilization.
Yep, got to agree with the Kos kids what a loser you have to be to serve ones country.
You, Mr. Loser, are correct!
I can’t believe I wanted to join the army! What was I about to do??
I think I’ll just go get a nice, safe college degree. One that never hurts anybody. One that will prevent me from killing any inncoent people…
Like a degree in creative writing…
Oh, wait…
taylork, I suppose 70% of the US are trolls, because that is how many are opposed to our Iraq policy. Why not deal with issues instead of scanning for an outrageous anti-military comment. Besides, if this site did not post remarks by “trolls” they would have nothing to discuss.
Here’s the strategy: Find an outrageous remark somehow remotely connected with liberals, post it and they say “see, they are anti-American, they are unpatriotic, they don’t want the US to win.” That way, you never have to question Bush’s disasterous policies and 100 Americans die per month.
Mike, seriously man…
You need to move off the Senator Reid reading list…
80% do not agree with congress…democratically controlled..what is your answer to that?
My husband = Marine
There is no possible way I can be even alittle bit objective about this A. Whitney person.
And while I am tempted to resort to his level and call him names as well. I’ll skip it.
But if I ever needed another reason to NOT support Hillary Clinton, ironically the only candidate that I have ever met irl, then her support of KOS and people like A. Whitney Brown just capped it off.
not feeding you today
Dartagnus, 80% don’t support Congress because they are too wimpy to do what the people want them to do, get us out of Iraq post haste.
So one would reasonably assume the 70% includes large numbers who support the war but think Bush is to weak to fight it…Like myself?
Boomer,
Thanks! Most of us/U.S. appreciate you’re sevice.
Dart, Yes, there are probably quite a few of people like that. Bush did not adequately prepare for the war and its consequences nor did he have an exist strategy.
Dartagnans… not exactly.
Coincidentally, this is down from 66% in April 2007.
Here’s the problem with people like Mike B - they invoke the founding fathers when it suits their argument and they mostly do it out of context because they have no real grasp of historical context in the academic sense. Mike B. supports a party and its candidates that go against everything that the founding fathers were for. The same arguments that you say Whitless uses that are similar to the patriots about a military buildup, are akin to the libertarian views of our founding fathers on the other subjects such as; income tax and states rights regarding slavery. Read what your party’s favorite patriot, Thomas Jefferson, had to say whenever the subject of freeing the slaves came up. Do you think he would have supported a federal health care system given how pro states rights he was? I’m guessing that since you agree with our founding fathers on the subject of a military, (based on the principles and arguments the patriots that you cited made,) you agree with their stance on having a militia and pure gun rights. And you also agree with their libertarian views on income tax. Also, you libs need to be very careful when invoking Abraham Lincoln; the Republican who freed the slaves. He, much like George W. Bush was hated, divisive and took decisive action against those that were an internal threat and lets face it - you all won’t even fight those who have sworn to destroy us.
For balance, same poll says 63% of people don’t think Dems are handling Iraq well either.
So, we see a strong opposition to our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan from the left, and specifically the “netroots” (since we’re being PC about the namecalling), yet they hold rallies complete with Hollywood stars that encourage US military intervention in Darfur? Last time I checked, Darfur was in the middle of a civil war as well, with innocent civilians caught in the middle of genocide. Of course, that’s what’s happening in Iraq too. Webster’s (the real dictionary not created by people on the internet who claim to be experts but don’t check the facts) defines genocide as:
Is that not what’s happening in Iraq as well? Why does the left continually support military intervention in Darfur, yet cry foul when we intervene in countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq, which have proven to be threats to our national security? The people of Iraq and Afghanistan are oppressed and live in a constant state of fear. Everytime they get on a bus or go to the market they could be the target of genocide, but I guess it’s not the same.
I think the situation in Darfur is horrendous and I think that the US and other countries should do as much as possible to stop the genocide. But I wonder, what will the reaction of the left be when troops are killed? Will they be called cowards and “morally retarded?”
MikeB, well done for going back to 1840, but you forgot to mention one fact, Lincoln’s criticism of Polk was way premature. I think if you look back at history and realize that the Mexican war led to the US gaining the land that is now Texas and California, you would say that the Mexican War had pretty good results for the US and has been a mainstay of our economy and security. You also fail to mention that Polk attempted a peaceful resolution, which included purchase of the land. Would you argue today that the Mexican war was a mistake?
However, I’m sure at the time, the cost of the war, monetarily and in lives, was a major concern to the US and led to harsh criticisms. As is often the case, it was too early to tell the long term effects of our actions. Much the same way, it is too early to declare failure in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I’m tired of the hypocrisy of the left and of the “al la carte” military plan that the left supports. For Democrats, it’s a matter of convenience, whatever helps them most at this moment they will support with no regard to future implication.
A war shouldn’t be fought on the basis of polls.
Interesting…
Read my previous post…What does this poll have to do with anything.. I would answer not worth fighting as well for the reason I stated. Doesnt change the facts…Dems are disappointed with dems for their weak position and I and others like me are disappointed with Conservatives for their weak positions. It’s quite comical to constantly hear you fringe guys bring up these Bush approval ratings as a vote against the war as if we should never have fought it. Bush is weak, hence low approval from conservatives..I say get out today only because you and your ilk have poisoned the water and Bush is the apple falling not so far from the Wimp tree. It’s crap.
Dart… read my previous post… I never said anything about Bush’s approval ratings in this thread.
Semantics…
Remember when Clinton burned 80+ people alive on our own soil in Waco Tx? The Clinton admin. attacked them under false pretenses using flammable tear gas (that they lied about using and tried to cover up but it was caught on videotape) and burned 80+ of their own citizens alive - including innocent children. I don’t recall the Dems condemning that action. Yet, Bush got blamed for a natural disaster and a city that didn’t bother to fix their levees. The Dems will stop at nothing to exploit the other guy for political gain. Too weak to debate on Fox news, too weak to see the war all the way through but hey - if there are some radical weirdo crazies out there in Texas - lets burn ‘em to a crisp.
But they got the Teargas leftover from from the Bush Administration, so it’s Bush’s fault…..
The reason why I thought those numbers were relavent is that I am sure there are people who support the War, but don’t like the way the President is handling it (hence the 70% claims).
But at the same time, 63% don’t think that the War was worth it.
I assume (rightly or wrongly) that many people who support the War, but don’t like the way the President is handling it, still would think that it was worth fighting in the first place.
Not content with being a mediocre comedian, Mr. Brown apparently now wants to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he can also be a mediocre philosopher and logician. I would say that he has succeeeded.
Whose polls? Whose audit of the respondents? Whose statistical analysis? Whose interpretation of the results? Whose reportage of the results?
Oh, and, whose boots are on the ground?
OT,
Have I missed it or has there been a news conference on the two morons with the explosives yet?
Just like Al Franken, I used to enjoy A. Whitney Brown when he was on “SNL”. (He used to do bits on the news that opened, “I’m A. Whitney Brown. Someday I hope to be THE Whitney Brown.”) That he’s a bitter spoiled member of the liberal elite class shouldn’t be a surprise.
Note how he slings the liberal code word “fear” in his piece. We’re AFRAID of the bogus boogeymen that Karl Rove has told Fox News to scare us about. Michael Moore elevated fear as the all-purpose reason for anything happening that he doesn’t approve of. We’re AFRAID!!! Gore howls that Dubya “played on our fears” and the meme is propagated.
As others have noted, Brown talks about our failure to “persuade”, but as Rush has observed, how do you negotiate with someone who has your death as their opening position and won’t move off that mark?
Boneheads like Brown, Franken, Moore, O’Donnell and the rest of the Hollyweird crowd are able to fart thru silk and make a living peddling their specious codswallop precisely because those “morally retarded idiots” keep the throat cutters off their front porches. You’d think they’d have a little gratitude.
BTW: Why hasn’t Franken been standing at the I-35W disaster area screaming that this is all Dubya’s fault and that if he’s elected, bad things will never happen again? Someone needs to learn some media savvy.
Bear… I’m in agreement with you that the United States is a fantastic country, which gives us the freedom to look at poll numbers for the feelings of the American public.
In some countries, like Iran, you get arrested at a rock concert.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,292198,00.html
Polls can be very important in surveying the public on issues and public figures. That’s why they are taken. I just found the numbers very interesting about the War Status and who pays attention to such numbers.
Darknight, I don’t doubt the figures or the poll. However, I think it is too early for us to judge the success or failure of intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan.
It goes back to my initial point, how do you weigh one civil conflict over another? Why support troop intervention in other conflicts while calling for a unilateral withdrawal from Iraq?
Bullseye!
See how right wingers avoid debate: Call anyone opposed to the war un-American, unpatriotic, and anti-troop.
at the risk of repeating myself.
Polls mean absolutely NOTHING. You can prove anything at all with statistics.
I don’t trust a single poll from any source and I don’t care what it says. It could say I was the best mom in town and I still wouldn’t believe it. It’s a POLL.
You guys are lawyers and other professionals… didn’t you have to take statistics in college? I know I did. Twice. Once was for computer science then other for Accounting. (Why on earth the University decided there should be 2 I have no idea) But the reality is that the one thing I learned from both classes is that statistics is bs. You can prove absolutely anything with it. You can manipulate poll data to the nth degree depending on what you want for results. Polls are based on statistics and statistics mean NOTHING.
So the dependance some of you seem to have on polls is totally illogical. The dependance that the politicians have on polls is downright stupid and potentially hazardous for our entire country.
You can quote numbers until your head explodes and they don’t mean a darned thing.
“Lies, damned lies and statistics.”
It’s not a joke. It’s real.
If you can’t give them up cold turkey… then at least start by stopping using them in your posts. Because you are all starting to look silly.
@mikeb.. the last time I said this you countered with some BS arguement about how I only believed polls that agreed with me. Don’t bother this time ok. I think I’ve made it perfectly clear I don’t believe in ANY polls. Are you really going to bother to continue to look stupid by arguing with an ignorant housewife from rural nowhere? Use some commons sense.. something they don’t teach in college… and forget the polls.
We already know who these people are and what they’re about.
The objective is to increase the exposure of their own despicable words within the democrat party. The folks who need to see this are your grandma and grampa and your auntie and uncle who remember JFK or maybe even FDR, and who haven’t heard the tragic news that the once-great democrat party has fallen into a dark abyss. Do you have such a relative? Then you owe it to them to show them the actual words. Let them be repelled by the hatred. Appeal to their sense of decency.
Mike.. back up about 72 posts… this isn’t an iraqi war thread inspite of your best efforts. It was about the comments of one particular KOS jerk and his name calling of the people in the military who serve to protect this country.
God.
Corps.
Country.
Something I don’t imagine you can even begin to understand.
Thats a bit of an over exaggeration. There is nothing wrong with voicing your opposition to the war. Its when people go as far as to say things like Harry Reid has said that they get labeled un-American, unpatriotic, and anti-troop. Big difference.
3Steps, leftists are so smack dab busted on this, they have to blow more than the usual amount of smoke to cover it up.
Still to early to feed the troll
To a Real American, a soldier is a hero.
To a democrat, a soldier is a thoroughly disposable marketing prop.
I think even leftists know it deep down in what remains of their conscience.
Speaking of logic, we are indebted to RobM for pointing out that Sweden and Japan are attacked less and are safer than we are because they spend much less on defense than we do. Hence, according to him, we have a “surplus” that we could do without.
I understand we also spend way more on police than either Sweden and Japan do, and hence we should also reduce “surplus police spending” as well. Because all we should need is “enough to defend ourselves” (a bat by the door, perhaps). “Anything beyond this is wasteful.”
Thank you 3steps, he still doesnt get it……
Brown winds up sounding like a spoiled rich kid simultaneously disparaging and reaping the benefits of his parent’s life choices.
He who, from his position of safety and privilege, has not and will never deign to muddy (or in this case bloody) his hands acquiring or defending those benefits, considers himself not only qualified but indeed compelled to comment on his disdain for the way in which is parents gained and maintain the privileges that he so enjoys.
To put it more succinctly; he sounds like Canada.
Ragin, I’m glad that we can agree that dissent is not a bad thing. But when people read comments such as this, it makes quality discussiong much more challenging:
Although I’m sure she was absolutely sincere in her opinion, legitimate dissent becomes much more challenging when it can quickly be labeled “anti-military” and “anti-American.”
I guess Rick Moran is right nutroots are people too. I’d rather spend my day with a chimp than a libb. Most chimps are happy and not filled with hate. I’m sure most chimps don’t hate me becasue I served my country in time of war. A chimp would make better company.
3-Steps, thank you you made my point. It was a jerky statement made at a Kos convention. Why is what an underemployed comedian says such earth-shattering news. Why not really debate Iraq policy? Answer: No one can legitimately defend it (see my posts above).
Also, 3, I agree that polls have some, but not dispositive, value. We are a democracy, after all.
So, lets ignore polls and discuss objectives: Elminate WMD? Done. Overthrow Saddam? Done. Create Iraqi parliament? Done. Bring Sunnis, Kurds, and Shia together? No military solution to that. Divide oil revenue? Ditto. Secure the borders of Iraq? Not being done, because troops are caught among factions in the civil war.
As I said, our troops have done all they were asked to do. But, there has been no political progress. Plus, the Iraqi Prime Minister said America can leave now. So, as Al Gore said, “It’s time for us to go.”
Couple things:
1. The use of polls, in my opinion, is vastly overrated. It still boggles my mind how someone can hypothesize a desire of 300 million citizens by speaking to 1500 of them.
Time and time again, we’ve seen how polls have been wrong.
2. Calling the US soldier ‘morally-retarded’ IS unpatriotic.
3. Proof of the democratic party politicizing the war is evident in the reaction from a congressman when asked about the Brooking’s Institute findings that the military action is showing signs of success. He stated that a positive report from Petraeus could be bad for the Democrat Party.
Please tell me HOW a report indicating that our military is having success would be bad for a US Political Party that, allegedly, supports the troops?
That is the most damning statement I’ve heard since Dingy Harry’s “The war is lost” debacle.
I have to give the troll a snack. No one can legitametly defend it???? Do you not read anything but your own posts? or do you consider any statement that defends the war to be illegitamate? Attention everyone, stop posting because you’re just not legitimate. The only people that are those that agree with mr mikeb
So 1500 people should decide the outcome of every election?
How do polls equal democracy?
Taylork, I explained myself in my post. The military did what it was supposed to and should be commended. On the political side, there has been no progress. We cannot and should not ask the military to do the work of the political leadership.
Mike B wrote, “Why is what an underemployed comedian says such earth-shattering news. Why not really debate Iraq policy?”
Who said it’s earth shattering? It’s just relevant not earth shattering.
Iraq policy is debated daily. This is the wrong thread but…. if you were closing your eyes a few hundred times on those threads… there are leftist leaders who agree (leftist as an adjective is relevant in this discussion to hopefully pursuade you a little) that we must find a way to “win” in Iraq. “Re-deployment is a recipe (these leftist leaders agree) for a humanitarian crisis. What Mike B (if you’ve finally seen this 1,001st mention of this) is your reaction to that evaluation of “re-deployment”.
Mike B with irrelevance said, “So, lets ignore polls and discuss objectives: Elminate WMD?”
After defeating Japan and Germany we could’ve said “no” to the occupation of Germany and Japan for 10 and 7 years because of the argument - objectives: eliminate Japan and Germany as a threat to the world. We were a responsible nation and filled the power vacuum with the occupation. Imagine the world after 1945 afterwards had we made a different decision….
Mike B with simplicity said, “Create Iraqi parliament? Done”
The key would be that the Iraqi parliment and government as a whole can sustain itself, defend itself from an onslaught, and for a foreseable future.
So… we see things differently. That is fine. Disagreement is fine. What the thread is about whether you like it or not is the idiocy of many on the left and guess what? It is relevant !!
From http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/5/3940/86488
I found this too funny.
He does not walk into the room but is Marching. He is on a mission. Why? Because he is wearing a uniform.
Now you would think he thought he lost his mind for going to the DailyKOS in uniform right? Nope.
I guess if you are in Uniform you have to crawl into a hole instead.
After serving as both Enlisted in the Navy and an Officer in the Army, I get a laugh reading stuff like this.
Would someone please answer my question (#36) so I can go back to baking brownies for some special Marines in Iraq?
Political progress can not exist without security progress. Security progress is being made in large strides thanks to the Surge. Thus, shortly, we will see political progress.
There has already been talk of handing over even more providences to the Iraqis by the end of the year. it would make the total 15 out of 18 handed off and in Iraqi control. That sounds like fairly solid progress.
USMCgramma just go here:
http://www.dailykos.com/special/about2
Kos is Markos Moulitsas nickname.
Wolverine,
I was trying to point out that Brown (and Mike) are accurately quoting viewpoints that we conservatives not only founded, but should embrace.
And we should then beat them (verbally) over the head with them since they omit the reason that these arguments were made in the first place.
Ike was right in warning us about the Military Industrial complex - but that doesn’t mean that Ike, of all people, ever felt that we should be weak.
Sherman was as anti-war as any man could be, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t prosecute the Indian War (a war of Imperialism, if ever there was one) ruthlessly, or that he advocated pacifism.
Of course the West depends upon the USA for its defense. Yes, we have effectively subsidized the whole Western World with our military, and all we get is grief over it.
What scary is that Brown (and Mike) are willing to be “erudite” when talking about the supply side of this equation. “Do we have too much military?” they ask, quoting Ike, and even Washington.
What they foolishly, and childishly, refuse to even ask is “is it enough?”
When a Muslim voting majority exists in a NATO country - and that day is fast approaching - things will get interesting.
Not that Mike and Brown, or Ellen Goodman for that matter, will notice. As long as they get to live in their bubbles, courtesy of the military they hate so, “all is well.”
Brown and the others are the worst kinds of fools. The kinds that stop half-way in an argument and think that they’re done.
MikeB, your statements show how short-sighted the left is.
Sure, the troops can leave now, but what will happen is an absolute eruption of chaotic violence that a new Iraqi government will not be able to control.
It is imperative that control and order be kept for the establishment of some form of governance. At this stage, an implementation of your solution would create anarchy.
I also believe, as I think many behind the scenes do but won’t state publicly, that this anarchy would create an opportunity for both Iran and Syria to cease control of Iraq, having devestating consequences for the Iraqi citizens and for the world economy.
But, I suppose there’s no need to think ahead like that, we’ll just leave that problem to our kids.
Also, I’m waiting for those of you who support pulling out of Iraq to justify the support of military intervention in Iran. After all, there are no WMD’s there, so why go?
Edit: Didn’t proofread the last post:
Meant to say:
Swj… Polls don’t equal democracy and I don’t believe anyone said that anyone would/should/could be elected by a poll. But the fact of the matter is, it is almost impossible to poll an entire population so you take a sample and try to form a picture from that snapshot. Political Strategists are employed to measure people’s thoughts and opinions on issues. Polls aren’t perfect, but they can be helpful. It was just 2004 when every newspaper and TV poll came out deadlocked that we knew that it was going to be a wire-to-wire result. Candidates are able to allocate their resources better when polls give them an idea on what states are no longer “wi