Attention, John Does: Have you seen these men?
Take a close look:
Readers in the Pacific Northwest alerted me to a highly unusual FBI bulletin. Via King5-TV:
The FBI is asking for the public’s help two identify two men who have been seen acting strangely aboard Washington State ferries recently.
According to federal agents, passengers have seen the men on several occasions exhibiting unusual behavior. The FBI did not say precisely what that unusual behavior entailed.
Anyone who knows the men or there whereabouts are asked to call the FBI at (206) 622-0460.
Isolated incident? “Racial profiling?” Unfounded paranoia? Only if you haven’t been paying attention. Recall the Seattle Times investigation from 2004 on reports on jihadi probing of the ferry system:
Groups of men, including one tied to a federal terrorism investigation, have videotaped Washington ferry operations, prompting federal authorities to conclude the system has been under surveillance as a possible target for an attack.
U.S. Attorney John McKay, officials in the U.S. Coast Guard and other members of Seattle’s Joint Terrorism Task Force all share in that conclusion.
“We may well be the target of preoperational terrorist planning,” McKay said.
A confidential FBI assessment of the threat to the state ferries is partly behind an increase in security for large-capacity ferries nationwide, McKay and others say.
The state ferry system is the nation’s largest, carrying 26 million passengers last year. It began implementing new security requirements — including tripling the number of cars screened for explosives — this weekend.
For its assessment, the FBI gathered 157 incidents on or near ferries that law-enforcement officers, ferry workers and passengers have reported as suspicious since Sept. 11, 2001. The Seattle Times obtained a document detailing those incidents.
The FBI determined that 19 of the incidents “were highly likely or extremely likely to involve terrorist surveillance of the ferries, with individuals asking probing questions about ferry operations or taking photos of stairwells, car decks and workers going about their jobs. Three incidents involve one man who is a known subject in an FBI terrorism investigation.”
al Qaeda-linked operatives have targeted ferries before for mass murder and violence. In Feburary 2004, the Times noted, “a man boarded a 1,747-passenger ferry bound from Manila to Bacolod in the Philippines. He carried eight pounds of TNT in a cardboard box onto the ship, left it on a bunk, then slipped off the ferry, according to news reports. An hour after departure, an explosion ripped through the ship, starting a fire that killed more than 100 people and left the ship foundering. Authorities have arrested a man who admitted to the bombing and is a member of an Islamic separatist faction with ties to al-Qaida.” It was the world’s deadliest terror attack at sea. Muslim convert Redondo Dellosa admitted he planted the bomb.
Militant Muslims working for Abu Sayyaf were fingered in another ferry bombing in the Philippines in 2005. More on maritime-related terrorism here.
Remember: If you see something, say something. Don’t let the CAIR grievance-mongerers keep you from acting. It’s significant that the FBI has gone public with the photo. As the sixth anniversary of 9/11 draws near, take nothing for granted.
***
The Seattle P-I refuses to run the photo that the FBI is disseminating. A ferry employee snapped the pic. An excerpt from the paper’s report this morning:
The Seattle P-I is not publishing the photos because neither man is considered a suspect nor has either been charged with a crime.
The FBI has no information suggesting that a terrorist attack on the ferry system is imminent, Burroughs said.
For weeks, the FBI has been trying to identify the men through “normal law enforcement channels,” she said. “We get tips periodically, but we don’t get photos normally like these,” Burroughs said. “We’re hoping to use them to resolve this quickly.”
…Burroughs acknowledged that the FBI rarely publicizes information from an investigation, unless investigators are seeking a suspect wanted for a crime. The decision was made “out of an abundance of caution” and “while keeping an open mind and realizing that what some people consider suspicious or unusual behavior actually might turn out to be something completely innocuous,” she said.
***
Related flashback: How Diana Dean sniffed out the Millenium Plot bomber.
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Trackbacks
- First Round | August 21, 2007 : The Shot! @ shotpolitics.com
- The Jawa Report
- Have You Seen These Men : The American Pundit | News and Opinion With A Conservative View
- The FBI Needs Your Help: Have You Seen These Two Men?
- Nothing has been found out about them either : thought cops
- Murdoc Online
- Ace of Spades HQ
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- Four Pointer
- IMAO
- Free In Idaho! » Blog Archive » Jihadis Sleepless in Seattle?
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- Bill's Bites
- Michelle Malkin » Seattle P-I: No, we won’t help the FBI…we’ll hold a haiku contest instead!
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- Tel-Chai Nation
- Blogs of War
- TeresaCentric » The Seattle Ferry Controversy: Was the PI Right Not to Publish the Photos?
- AMERICAN DIGEST
- Resent this CAIR | BitsBlog
- Maliki’s New Street Cred
- 17-Jun-07: Plain words about games
- China Declares War
- Wow…America is Frightened of Its Own Shadow… « The Blog With No Point
- Michelle Malkin » Ferry plots and Filipino Muslim converts
- Seattle Ferry Threat - Update « Waste Of My Oxygen
- Michelle Malkin » Found: The men on the Washington ferries
- American Street » Blog Archive » Ferry to the dark side
CAIR has been successful in aiding and abetting the function of terrorists by the very definition of those murderous criminals: frightening people into silence and submission. For those who understandibly have second thoughts about reporting information, here are a couple of suggestions:
1. Use a public pay phone to report information anonymously. Yes, a camera across the street or elsewhere might pick you up, but identifying you will be more difficult than identifying the terrorists, and the FBI will be more interested in using their resources to identify the terrorists than a person who tipped them off. Use a public phone if you’re concerned about the consequences of being targeted by the left for doing your civic duty.
2. Internet cafes can be, in theory, a good way to remain anonymous, as, one would assume, public libraries with internet access.
It’s unfortunate that seemingly subversive ways of communicating civic duty information are seemingly desirable to some, be one cannot blame those who feel that way. There are, alas and incredibly, citizens born and bred as Americans among us who appear to be somehow driven to silence those who would speak up in their own county’s legal interests, and/or hurt those who do. It is unfortunate that the word “traitor” is used as infrequently as it is.
Those two guys look like the “hit men” in the latest “Bourne” movie. I enjoyed the movie for its entertainment value, BUT I have to say I was thoroughly…let’s say upset…at the fact that the movie portrayed the hit-men hired by the CIA as a couple of Middle-Eastern-looking types. Well, maybe I misunderstood - perhaps I’m just not nuanced enough.
Seen the movie, Deja Vu, but it wasn’t Jihadist blowing up ferries, but rather a “seriously disturbed, anti-social individual”… Life follow art?
Gee, I hope Jerry Rivers isn’t upset by this. Might get his mustache in a knot.
If you ask me, they just appear to be innocent members of the broad strata, probably just doing research for their marine studies thesis.
Move along, we can’t rush to judgment here.
As one of the epicenters of moonbat central, the Seattle area is a most inviting soft target. Just the latte-sipping lefties don’t realize it.
Sounds like a good lead to me. I hope somebody calls the FBI sooner rather than later so they can find out what these clowns are up to before they need rescue subs.
Way to go Seattle P&I. You are truly American heroes for defending the privacy of two possible bad guys. I hope you feel the same way if the suspicions of the FBI come true. Soros, Kos, and their buddies will make you their poster boys.
The absence of logic and intelligence in your paper is amazing. Do any of you news people take the fery? I bet that if you did, you’d have that picutre on page 1 every morning.
Michelle, thanks publicizing the photo and conveying the message that our FBI need our help.
There you are, at your home office computer, doing a job the main stream media (MSM) refuses to do. By the end of today, there will be several hundred thousand pairs of eyes on the look out. Thanks!
“The Seattle P-I is not publishing the photos because neither man is considered a suspect nor has either been charged with a crime.”
I’m sure they’ll keep the picture in their files….it’ll make good print if these guys DO cause some havoc….
I think their reluctance is more financially motivated than anything - with all the lawsuits coming about by CAIR and others…
Just goes to show you the difference between being a vigilant ‘John Doe’ and the cowardice of some in the media.
Hey, Seattle P&I: That’s why they invented retractions…in case you need to apologize later on… for now, how about erring on the side of caution.
( If these two guys were white, the picture would be on the front page )
Are all Newspapers operating with HUA syndrome or is it my imagination? I gaurantee these photo’s would have been printed if Seattle was successfully targeted on 9/11. How soon some people have chosen to Forget.
See this link for a related post at Atlas Shrugs:
Terror’s Next Move
Keith Olbermann (D) would say ‘Yes’.
Isolated incident? “Racial profiling?” Unfounded paranoia?
So What.
No beards,no hats,nothing to identify themselves as muslim except the hate filled look on their face.
JLP
You can’t fight the enemy without first identifying him.
If we let PC thought processes override common sense investigative procedures we will be unable, as a society, to identify and eliminate the real threats we face. Sometimes the truth hurts and if you look and act like a typical terrorist in this country, you will receive extra scrutiny.
Thank you, Michelle, for posting this information.
How long do we have to play this silly cat and mouse game, how many more Americans have to die, before we realize that islam is not a religion, that it is a blueprint for conquering civilization? That “tiny minority” seems to be growing, no?
Keep looking…..if they are no more than a couple of guys doing normal things then there should be no worries, right CAIR?
Didn’t see them on my commute from Bremerton this morning. Me and my fellow bikers that take the ferry were very non PC about the situation.
They would probably be willing to print the names and addresses of legal firearms owners though
I wonder if they were suspected of plotting to do harm to abortion clinics (or anything else the liberal PC crowd holds dear), would their pictures show up prominently on the paper’s front page?
Appear to be young men from the middle east? Plotting to blow up ferries? Ho-Hum, just another Bush plot to divert attention from Iraq.
It’s working isn’t it? None of the comments are about Karl Rove, Abu Graib, Gitmo Gulag, or the victim of Cheney injustice, Valerie Plame and her heroic husband’s fight against the Fourth Reich in Washington. /sarcasm off
And then when something happens, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer will be crying “WHY?”
It’s because politically correct hacks like you refuse to acknowledge that terrorists attacks, 99.999999% of the time, are Islamic or Arabic or Middle Eastern men between the ages of 25 & 40.
Our political correctness is the shovel with which we’re digging our own graves.
In the photo above, that guy in the foreground looks like he’s become quite irritated at being photographed. I wonder why he’s in such a sour mood? Is he worried about something? What could that be?
Ah, nevermind. asking questions like that makes me feel too right-wingy, too judgemental. They are not Timothy McViegh copy-cats, so there isn’t anything they are up to that we didn’t create for ourselves by supporting Isreal, or our other imperialist foreign policies. Somebody should by that guy a $7.00 latte and give him a hug. That’s a great homeland security policy! Call John Edwards, he’s got a new plank for his platform!
KUDO’s to the alert employee!! You are to be commended for your awareness and quick thinking.
Thank you - keep up the good work!
The captain of any ship is responsible for safety of life at sea, and is considered the ultimate authority under the law of the sea when a vessel is underway in navigable waters.. If any individual - passenger or crew - is acting suspiciously, the captain can take action.
It is astounding that anyone can get away with taking surveillance pictures without being stopped and question by the crew. Also, any questions about operations or security capabilities ought to likewise trigger action.
Let me point out that a captain can give a standing order that anyone (terrorist or tourist) taking any type of picture that has no obvious personal motivation can be immediately questioned by an officer of the deck. In addition, the captain can call ahead to the FBI, slow down the ferry, and have the individuals met at the terminal.
If I were to notice these two on board a ferry acting “suspicious” 3.5 seconds is all it would take to call the local FBI office and hopefully the men would be “detained until verified” 3.5 seconds after docking.
Hear ya Pub. #23 wondering why this didn’t happen????
The problem is that if you make the call, CAIR will claim that you are anti-Islam and you may find yourself the defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. What I would do is go to the bridge and request to speak briefly with the Captain of the Ferry. He has both the legal authority and legal duty to make the call. The Captain of an airliner, as was the case with the six Imams, can take action on behalf of his passengers and crew. The same goes for the passengers and crew of a ferry.
Then again, I would have loved to have tossed them overboard. opps.
From the link to AtlasShrugs above:
Seattle has been targeted before, and this is no suprise to me. These Coasties are ready for some rough business, and I’m glad they are on the case.
As Mark Levin says signing off every night, We salute our Armed Forces, Law Enforcement, and Emergency Personnel.
Now that emplyoee’s done it! Harrasing innocent tourists by taking their picture and getting it published without their consent. Wait until CAIR finds out who this person is. Better go into hiding now and find a good lawyer! After CAIR get through with this case the EX-employee will wish to never again have evil thoughts about imaginary motives and will go into revulsions just looking at a camera:)
Thos two in the photo sure are a couple of salty-looking dudes. Wonder what they were doing to provoke a ferry employee to take their picture?
How comforting. I’ve been on some of those ferries before; quite the scenic way to go from Victoria BC to Seattle. But if I’m going to be looking for “suspicious behavior” it’d sure be nice to have a better idea of what constitutes such behavior.
As it stands, I guess I’ll have to look for “suspicious-looking characters” (i.e., males of middle-eastern appearance between the ages of 17-45). Hardly efficient.
Taking this photo and turning it in to the police is probably the best thing you can do in this situation. It’s even better that the subjects know they are being photographed. It would be even better if you took several photos and told them you were sending them to the FBI, then called the police to pick up the guys for questioning where the ferry docked. That’s me being judgemental, but I like being judgemental.
It takes a long time for the bad guys to size up a target. When you throw in random threats like the public counter-surveilling them, it messes up their planning. It tends to move them along to softer and easier targets. And, of course, it gives the police the chance to disrupt their plot before it matures.
This might be the preliminaries for an actual attack on the ferry system, or it might be some civil rights PR operation like the flying imams. Whatever the case, they don’t want to mess with those Port Security Coasties. Those guys are not playing games, they are very serious about protecting us. I’m pleased they have responded, but it’s worrying also. Something is afoot in the Great Northwest.
“It takes a long time for the bad guys to size up a target. When you throw in random threats like the public counter-surveilling them, it messes up their planning. It tends to move them along to softer and easier targets. And, of course, it gives the police the chance to disrupt their plot before it matures.”
Try telling this to the American left!
New York - New Jersey - Seattle….
All liberal havens where foreigners are welcomed with no regard to suspicions and a ingrained mindset which takes profiling and suspicion off the table.
OT- Shuttle landing in 20 mins.
http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/
Reporting suspicious behavior is one thing. In fact, we have discussed this in the past the reporting behavior is not a bad thing. It’s being suspicious just because of a person’s ethnicity and/or religion that is a whole different ball of wax.
It is quite difficult to see ourselves in this situation if we were one of the two men in that picture. If someone took a picture of us, would we want that picture on the front page of the paper saying we were wanted by the FBI? The personal humiliation and embarassment we would have to endure by having our faces forever remembered by being on the front page of a major American newspaper.
It is quite different, in my opinion, than if a member of the FBI, or Secret Service, or Police Officer asks if there was a particular reason that you keep on taking pictures of an American landmark… over and over and over again. This is highly unusual because a typical tourist will pose in front of the landmark, say cheese, and keep on going.
But I totally understand the logic of not putting a face on the front page of the paper when no crime has been committed or is being planned.
Has anyone asked the question of if, as has been alleged, these individuals keep on coming back over and over again (meaning that they have been under survellience) that SOMEONE would’ve stopped them to ask them questions??? If they ran away, thats evasion of an officer… therefore a crime and would thus justify the publishing of a photo.
I think that shows the fine line of liberty and security.
Let me correct myself:
“But I totally understand the logic of not putting a face on the front page of the paper when no crime has been committed or a suspect in one being planned.”
If there was some intelligence that suggests that they were planning a crime(purchasing of explosives, overseas phone calls, etc.), THAT is probable cause and they would be considered suspects in planning to commit a crime.
We can’t assume that they are planning on committing a crime based on how they look.
If that were the case, than many minorities would be stopped on the freeway and searched because of simply their appearence.
Oh wait…
If Seattle has a terrorist incident, don’t doubt for a second that the local take will be the terrorists were forced into it by the insensitivities of the authorities. (Moonbat logic, almost as clear, and far more predictable than Muslim logic)
#36 DarkKnight:
Three questions:
1. How long do you think you would remain unknown if that picture were published?
2. How long do you think you would be embarassed?
3. WHY?! *unless, of course you were doing something suspicious…
They look like such nice boys.
Print my name for sure. I am sure anybody that reads I own a firearm would think twice about breaking in to see how I am armed!
I fly internationally - a lot. You bet I am not PC about it. You can call me John Doe on every flight because if I see something even the least bit out of the ordinary - let’s roll!
So..the FBI is looking for these guys but a newspaper thinks we shouldn’t know what they look like?…makes sense.
This is a case where the FBI has decided they need the public’s help - sounds like a long way beyond racial profiling. If these guys are innocent and see themselves on the front page, they can call the FBI and go talk to them. All gets cleared up, the paper publishes the explanation, you make nice about how the FBI is alert, and life goes on…
I wonder why the P-I has so few readers? Oh yeah, they don’t publish news…
If I was from the Middle East and found myself in Seattle, I’d be on a ferry too, but not taking pictures of stairwells. I’d be on deck, stunned by the natural beauty of Puget Sound and the Olympic mountain range.
If these guys aren’t terrorists then I’m Ronald Mc Donald.
I’m involved in an exciting photographic hobby. I’ve been snapping pics of rear bumpers from cars parked at mosques. Such diversity of makes and models, and plates from almost all 50 states.
Who thought religious diversity in America could be such fun? And the possibilities are endless because America is home to the fastest growing religious cult in the world!
They are persons of interest that the FBI feels needs to be tracked down, and the most effective way to do that is to enlist the help of the general population. Any police officer will tell you that this is the most effective way of doing this.
Not the issue. They are being sought for questioning and are considered persons of interest because of their suspicious actions. Don’t jump to conclusions and infer something that doesn’t even come into play here (i.e. racisim).
You foks seem to think that an employee was the alert one. The photo is clearly from a cellphone camera, and is likely from a passenger, not an employee.
Cellphone cameras can be a ready tool to help fight terrorism. Never be afraid to capture suspicious people on your cellphone’s camera. It could be valuable evidence. Then report it to:
https://tips.fbi.gov/
We should profile early, often and repeatedly. Screw feelings, I did not consent to be blown to kingdom come.
Besides, as a white male, I have been profiled many times, usually by girls’ fathers, who I can overhear saying to their wives, “His hair is too long and he should shave.”
The wife then responds, “Oh honey, he is a working professional, and you had long hair back then.”
The husband responds, “Yeah, and your father made me cut it. If he wants to take out our daughter he should get a haircut.”
That is profiling, and I am fine with it. I will be just as irrational when I have my own daughter.
Profile!
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/ethnic-profiling-screw-feelings-i-want-to-live/
http://blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com/2007/07/07/white-men-do-get-profiled-i-should-know/
Respectfully,
eric
We should say “FBI looking for South Asian Youths of Non-Specific Racial and/or Religious Identity, whose photograph we cannot show you.”
That feels so nice!
Usually you see them on a WANTED poster as in a crime committed.
There is no wanted poster:
Why do you automatically jump to the assumption of racism?
On August 21st, 2007 at 1:58 pm, BelchSpeak said:
“You foks seem to think that an employee was the alert one. The photo is clearly from a cellphone camera, and is likely from a passenger, not an employee.”
Belchspeak - the news piece clearly states that:
“They were snapped by a ferry employee who thought the pair acted suspiciously. “
Imagine if the FBI had put out notices such as this pre 9-11 with the faces of Mohammed Atta and some others, if they were observed acting suspiciously?
What would be, or could have been, different?
To say that assisting the FBI by posting this picture is racist is to deny logic.
That is why libs speak from the heart and conservatives speak from the mind.
Might I submit that Libs all have their heads stuck up their asses, so you draw your own conclusions about where they are speaking from.
I never said just race. I said minority. There are many people who are suspecious of Muslims, no matter what color.
Anyway, my point was to say that it is not everyday that you open a paper and see a picture of a person who is wanted by the FBI, because someone took a picture of them and said they were acting suspeciously.
You would face questions from work on your outside activities, your family might face harassments, or worse threats.
It’s public humiliation. Conservatives talk so much about how newspapers will rush to print a story and not think of the consequences, but then something like this happens, and then they scream “Run to the presses!”
If people are running through a parking lot, people grow suspious. But if a police officer asks you why you are running, and you tell him/her that you forgot your keys and you are late for a meeting, the police office lets you go and the day goes on. There isn’t any stories in the paper, no police blotter in the paper… why? Because you aren’t a suspect.
Of course I am suspicious of every Muslim. Muslims are taught from the day they are born that it is OK to lie to, rape, enslave, torture, murder all non-Muslims and a fair share of Muslims of different sects. Islam is about as presumed innocent as the Crips or MS 13.
DarkKnight - no response to #39?
Lemme’ tell you something:
1. If it were MY picture I would immediately come forward.
2. If I were doing something that caused me embarassment it would be my own damned fault.
3. See number two… we’re not talking about picking your nose in public here…
These two individuals were spotted on numerous ferries, on different routes - they are obviously engaged in reconnaissance or a probing mission, either for PR or to cause confusion… to believe anything less is to leave yourself (and the public) open to harm.
Be vigilant!
Minority, special interest group, whatever you want to define it as. You are still jumping to the default assumption of discrimination, and that is sad.
So, you do or do not want the FBI following up on leads to try and prevent another 9/11???? We can’t just have them give a pass to these guys simply because we want to be overly cautious about not hurting their feelings or inconveniencing them. The real world problem that we are facing is that there are people out there that want to blow us up. I’m sorry, but protecting thousands of people from ending up dead needs to be the greater priority.
Yeah, there is a very old saying….. you know, something about not doing anything that you would be ashamed to have your grandmother read about in the paper the next day.
Raging, speaking of blowing us up did you see the vid titled “feel good video of the day” over on hotair?
Yeah, I posted it to my blog.
yikes…I’ll take a peek later at you’re blog.
Fair enough Tony. I was responding to TRR. But I shall respond to your questions.
1) You wouldn’t be unknown for very long, especially if you are well-known in your area. If you are Middle-Eastern family living in a neighborhood, getting along great with the neighbors, your job is going fine. You do something that causes something to think you are doing something suspicious, like run through a parking lot because you forgot your keys, run through a airport terminal because you are late for your flight, run through a stadium because you don’t want to miss the first kickoff…
Someone takes a picture and gives it to the police.
The newspaper that is read across the state poublishes your photo because the police couldn’t find you. You were in that meeting with the CEO when you forgot your keys. You are already on that flight that you were about to miss because it took so long to get through security, the stadium is full of people.
Instantly, your face becomes recognized. People ask you when they shake your hand “weren’t you the guy who was wanted by the FBI?” All of a sudden the neighbors don’t talk to you anymore. Your family starts to receive threatening phone calls because your number is in the phone book. Companies are less likely to hire members of your family because they aren’t sure why the FBI would be interested in you. Your kids come home crying and complaining because the kids are teasing them about their father in the paper. Your wife can’t go to the supermarket without people asking her questions.
You have to change your home phone number because of all the calls. You ask the police to do extra patrol by your house because of the death threats.
You start to get phone numbers from attorneys who are interested in a possible case of defamation of character against the newspaper.
2) For months after your photo is published, you are a suspect. You may never know the extent and the negative implications that the photo, along with possible FBI suspect has on your life.
All because someone took a picture.
But you weren’t a suspect in a crime. You never were. You were an honest citizen just trying to live your life… you just looked like you could be a threat.
——————————-
All I’m saying is that it is not easy to think of ourselves in someone else’s shoes. But that’s exactly what this country is designed to do. We are supposed to protect the rights of the minority, or any American citizen for that matter.
As I’m said all along, there is such a fine line because liberty and security.
Edit: As I’ve said all along, there is such a fine line between liberty and security.
TRR: the video was yanked from YouTube…..guess somebody was “offended” by it.
DarkKnight - the point is that these two individuals ACTED in a manner which arose the suspicions of Ferry employees and passengers. They were seen on numerous ferry routes and at different times, asked in-depth questions about the workings of the ferries, and were observed taking pictures of portions of the ferry which, it seems, were not normal for ‘tourists’ to be putting in their photo albums.
The FBI has deemed their actions as suspicious enough to warrant a desire to speak to them. Given their actions, and the state of terrorism in the world, oh - and by the way - we are at war against an predominantly Arabic force and were brutally attacked 6 years ago, and the anniversary to that date is rapidly approaching - I want my government to be as proactive as possible when it comes to investigating potential threats.
I also expect my fellow citizens to be as proactive in reporting them.
If, after the Oklahoma bombing it was discovered that the FBI had pictures of him acting suspiciously around the Murrah building and didn’t release them when they could have - would you not ask why?
This is not about discrimination - this is about common sense. EVERYONE knows the heightened state of alert this country has been on for 6 years. For these two individuals to be acting in such a manner ( Repeated trips on various ferries, taking pictures of ferry operational locations, etc. ) and not think they’ll be questioned is ridiculous.
Hell, I remember being in San Francisco in 2004 and taking pictures of the Golden Gate Bridge right at Fort Point, 30 feet from some Guardsman on patrol…
I’m white, with my family, including my 11 year old blonde-haired, blue-eyed daughter and my 77 year old mother…and I was getting the once and twice-over by the guards….
It’s not about minority, race, religion or anything else - it’s what these guys have DONE, as in actions, not who they are.
Here’s a suggestion for a P-I headline after an attack (running above this picture and a picture of a burning ferry):
“Could the Seattle P-I have prevented this?”
Do you think they would run it? I don’t. They might run a headline that blamed Bush and his tax cuts.
But considering the number of people who actually read that fish wrap, it might not matter if they did run it.
I live about a mile from a WA State ferry dock. Guess where I’ll be walking my dog for the next few weeks. I’ll have my camera phone ready to take pictures of anyone, regardless of ethnicity, who behaves suspiciously.
Additional comment:
We’re not, as referred to previously, talking about someone running in a parking lot one time because they forgot their keys…
We’re talking about a pattern of suspicious behavior centered around a key security risk.
JR, let me ask you a question, just honest American to American.
If a young man asked a question to a ferry employeee about how a ferry works, that because (using your words) we are battling an Arabic force and were attacked by muslim extremists on 9/11 that suspicions would differ based on the appearence of that individual?
Not trying to be smart alleck, just being straight.
JRL, I was using the keys in a parking lot as an example.
But if you want to be specific, I’m sure someone would be suspecious of a person running through a lot of it were a high profile target like Wall Street or any high profile place. The consequences, which I’m still very interested in how your reaction would be to the unfortunate soul in the above scenario, would be the same.
Tony, I’m interested in your response to the guy in #63 as well.
Its back up now on my blog. There are like 3 versions on You tube that havent been taken down yet. Enjoy!
AAAAAHHHHHHH! DarkKnight, Stop beating that dead horse and listen to reason!
DarkKnight:
If ANYONE, white, black, brown, yellow, muslim, christian, whatever…asked a Ferry employee how a Ferry works…and that’s all they did - I don’t think anyone would care or notice.
If I mixed my thoughts - I apologize - I truly meant that, in the greater context, the racial makeup is not the issue here, although it does become a factor because of the undisputed profile of the majority of Islamic terrorists which is, Arabic and Muslim.
If, however, that same non-descript person asked how ferries work, was spotted on various routes at various times on various occasions over a period extending over a month, and was taking pictures of odd places on these ferries - yes, I would be very suspicious.
I work for a casino, and have, in the distant past, worked for a shopping mall facility, and for many years worked in the security end of these businesses.
Having someone do something odd once is not a terribly noticed incident. You may look sideways at them, but generally it is observed and noted and, if it doesn’t happen again, forgotten about.
What we’re dealing with here is a repeated pattern of suspicious activity surrounding 2 males who could fit the widely accepted profile of what has been our highly lethal enemy over the past many years, moreso the past 6.
Do the math: Repeated, suspicious actions, 2 male unidentified subjects, a high-profile target of opportunity, a country at war with terrorist organizations.
RAGING…
I AM listening to reason!!! I hear you loud and clear!
(sarcasm)
If someone’s rights are infringed upon, for the greater good, then fine. It sucks for that personn for a little while, but oh well. That’s life. Deal with it. Right?
(/sarcasm)
But YOU have to listen to reason as well. If someone is making an argument about the possible implications, personal AND legal of printing a picture without probable cause, then YOU listen as well. I’m asking simple questions!
I don’t want another 9/11.
I don’t want another Oklahoma City.
I don’t want to see Deja Vu play out in real life.
But while you charge that some liberals had better wake up and recognize that we must be vigilant and fight this enemy called terrorism, there are plenty of people who better WAKE UP and see that people’s Constitutional RIGHTS are being infringed upon. It’s called probable cause for a reason! We have laws for a reason!
We are the United States of America. We fight our enemies and spit in their face when they try and take away our way of life. But even as we fight, we must maintain our dignity. We have integrity. We have rights that must not be violated because we must not allow the Constitution to be undermined. We must protect those rights.
That Raging, is reason.
What if they’re asking about learning how to take off and fly jumbo jets but have zero interest in learning how to land them - should that be reported, DK?
Reason suggests that:
1. A diligent and cautious media outlet would post this picture with a full explanation.
2. A diligent and cautious media would stay on the story and if it bears out that this is all completely innocent would post a FULL EXPLANATION as to the true facts.
3. Also, as this is getting pretty good play now - HONEST and innocent people who see their picture being hoisted by the FBI would immediately contact them and clear their names.
If that is not done within the next 48 hours - I’m guessing that these guys are exactly as we’re suspecting they may be…. reconnaisance.
Given their high profiles after this incident, it’s a possibility they may be gone from the country already, if that is the case.
.
Making suspicious inquires about mass transportation is a “Constitutional RIGHT”, DK?
Of course you have right to ask how something works purplepeep. Thats the First Amendment.
But I was saying that there is an opportunity for a very sticky situation when people’s lives become associated with counter-terrorism efforts without being associated with a crime.
“…people’s Constitutional RIGHTS are being infringed upon.”
What rights are those, exactly?
We constantly hear from the left about all of our rights that we’re losing under this administration….
What rights have you lost?
What rights have these two individuals lost? They are free to travel as they wish -
But when they act suspiciously, they are going to be questioned, as they should be.
Purplepeep in #75, I was simply asking if based on a persons appearence, would suspicions be different. If it has only to do with actions, and nothing to do with looks, then the suspicion should be the same for everyone, right?
All I was seeking was an answer to the question I posed in that post. Not questions to answer the questions.
On the news last night (KOMO4 - local ABC affiliate), one ferry rider interviewed said “living with fear a paranoia isn’t a healthy way to live.” Another rider said he didn’t know what to think except that it’s “nothing”.
This is precisely why our beautiful Pacific Northwest is targeted: people unable to accept the reality of a post 9/11 world. It drives me nucking futs.
Unfortunately, that specific report with the interviews is not on the komotv.com website.
No answer to my question in #69 jrl?
No reaction to the guy I mention in #63?
To answer yours, the question I think is “does suspcious behavior qualify as probable cause to commit a crime, launch an investigation complete with photos in the paper, even though no crime has been committed.
What I will agree with you on is that the next 48 hours will be very telling as to what happens.
” I was simply asking if based on a persons appearence, would suspicions be different. If it has only to do with actions, and nothing to do with looks, then the suspicion should be the same for everyone, right?”
That is right, DarkKnight, in a general sense.
We have a society that has been told for years upon years that it is improper to judge anyone by the color of their skin or any other similar characteristics.
Yet it is this same group who cries out for a color-blind society that harbors those who decry the many in power as ‘Rich White Men’ and other such labels.
The fact remains that while actions predominate suspicion, other factors which fall under a particular profile which is predominant in the area you are viewing, in this instance, terrorism, you cannot dismiss their race - ONCE YOU HAVE ESTABLISHED THE FACT OF SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.
( Pardon my caps - I have the script controls blocked on my computer here at work - I’m not shouting, just highlighting the point. )
DarkKnight - I thought I did answer both of those in #74…. with more elaboration in #84 as to the racial issue.
I think at this point - the 48 hour issue may be a good buffer for this incident….
We’ll see what happens and if these two are just harmless, curious passengers - or if their silence and absence belies a more suspicious characterization.
DarkKnight #63 & #71:
Well, I’m glad you took a swipe at answering, but I’m afraid you’ve missed the point. As others have pointed out, you are using the hypothetical - we’re dealing in reality here.
As I suggest in #39 (and others have also alluded to) the answer is yet to be seen.
Will these men come forward?
Will their neighbors, co-workers, friends alert authorities, or even the MSM?
Will the FBI reveal the procedures they (our “two men who have been seen acting strangely aboard Washington State ferries”) were doing - or will the men themselves do that?
To answer your question (and this is as far as I’ll go - ‘cuz I think you’re trolling now):
“weren’t you the guy who was wanted by the FBI?”
Yup. I had to explain why I took many pictures and asked questions about ferry operation.
If it was me - that’s what I’d do. ‘Course, I don’t know what they’ll do… probably nothing, since they’ll likely not come forward nor will they be revealed to us without further clamoring and insistance of the public for information.
BE VIGILANT!!!
Exactly, #86…
If it was me - it would be a matter of, “Yeah…here’s what happened…it was all a big misunderstanding”
I’d probably get my 15 minutes of fame on Fox / CNN / or whoever - and I would loudly demand that my explanation be in the same media outlets that ran the story initially.
The story would then die out - except for those liberals who rushed to my side to ‘protect’ me from my own government…
Thank you - I can do that myself. Now get outta here.
Raging Republican #59
Yep! Add to that the “As found rule”:
DAMHIK
If these guys are innocent and being suspected wrongly, they have many avenues of redress. This is America, after all. They can appear all over the MSM, who will exploit it to the hilt, any way they can. There are many lawyers who would help them sue, even if they don’t have a case. They might even get a book deal, for crying out loud. It’s worth the risk of having to say you’re sorry later, to be fully alert now. What if these guys are really up to something deadly serious? Libs would be the first to say Bush didn’t protect Seattle because it’s a Democrat city in a Democrat state. Remember Katrina? You know they would in a second. Then, in about 5 minutes we would hear how the Bush tax cuts have starved Homeland Security and we have to raise taxes across the board, and pork up port protection. I can see it now!
You keep jumping all around the place trying to avoid clear questions, DK - why is that?
The issue at hand - and the question that was posed you - was “Making suspicious inquires about mass transportation”. A person certainly has a “right” to do that - just as a old guy hanging around a school yard and eyeing up little girls has the “right” to make suspicious inquiries about the students. However in both such cases the persons should expect they will attract attention. But the “rights” they _really_ wanna pay attention to are the ones read to them by the authorities. With rights come responsibilities and consequences.
It upset you that I asked “What if they’re asking about learning how to take off and fly jumbo jets but have zero interest in learning how to land them - should that be reported, DK?”
It’s not a trick question. And , if you’re aware of recent history, you’ll know that it’s not a hypothetical one.
By way of a refresher course -
The Moussaoui Conroversy
I’m actually shocked that anyone - especially with 20/20 hindsight - would be unable to answer that question.
Yup, yup, yup.
Dark Knight, at the risk of gang tackling here :), we don’t know what these guys were asking about the ship’s operation. If they were asking “Where’s the engine room? Do you keep it locked? How do I get to the bridge?” Would that make a difference to you? Photographing stairwells and car decks as opposed to mountains and seagulls? The FBI isn’t putting out photos everyday - this seems unusual, far beyond the “I saw a guy running through the parking lot” scenario.
Believe me, if they are innocent they will receive a CAIR package…
I e-mailed Homeland Insecurity, and sent them a picture of a whole bunch of illegal alien MS-13 types at a street corner. All they did, was let more in. Go figure.
Picture Caption for the “Two Individuals” of interest.
The Federal Bureau of Investigation has asked (a newspaper) to publish this photograph of 2 individuals who are wanted for questioning regarding their presence on Ferry #ABC on DATE EFGH. PLease contact the Bureau at ….or this Newspaper at >>>>> if you have seen these 2 individuals or know of their whereabouts.
Rights-Schmites. This is war. Report suspicious behavior. Say what you see. Photograph it. Whatever. But report it. End of story.
When it gets to the point where Islamic fascists succeed far enough to have habeas corpus suspended for the sake of ending their violent takeover of the world, it won’t be a loss of our dignity as a Nation at all.
It will show the wisdom of a President who understands how to destroy the Enemy….Muslim Jihadists.
Islam is not a race. It is a religion practiced by various ethnic groups around the world.
Reflecting the reality of those who are fighting the United States in jihad, so far, most of the perps are named Mohammed.
Let’s blow off this PC horsecr*p and get serious about protecting our ports….that is what the ferry probes are all about.
The beauty of America is, in one sense, that if one’s civil rights are violated one can prosecute the violator to the fullest extent of the law and win. I know of what I speak.
And with CAIR in these jihadis corner, I say err on the side of safety and decisiveness.
To Protect all Enemies Foreign and Domestic. Gee, what a concept. I dont see anything in that phraise that says without profiling or any other nonsense that inhibits the safety of our Nation.
Support and defend the Constitution -against- all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Hey I think I saw them at a protest in Seattle. Isn’t this them posing as Iraq War Vets against the War?
http://www.commonlanguageproject.net/flash/protest2007_0127/
I was standing on the median of a street in downtown DC during a “peace” march taking photos when one of the “peace” march organizers walked up to me and began shouting in my face to move. I stood my ground and politely told him I’d be staying. So he began scuffling with me, trying to push me around. When he started drawing too much attention he left. He came back with a camera, took my picture, and told me he was gonna come back with his crew and take care of me. Then he went on his way, undoubtedly to spread his message of peace.
At the end of the march, the ANSWER commies stood up on a truck and announced through a bullhorn that anyone who had suffered police brutality should come forward. They had lawyer volunteers ready to take their statement and press their case in court. I came forward and told the ANSWER chick that one of her organizers had roughed me up and should I file my complaint about brutality with her. She took off running.
The lefties don’t give a damn about all this photo taking or even roughing their political rivals up. They only care when they can make a plausible case against the other side. This lefty outcry against taking photos of suspicious guys surveilling public places is a phony facade.
And there are many ways to do so without letting the Country be gutted by misuse of it by the Islamo Fascist jihadists.
Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus to save the Union. Without the Union, The Constitution’s defense is moot.
The Puget Sound Ferry System would work very well as an opportunity for a “mad dog killing Jihadist.” Would produce mass casualties and those not killed in an outright explosion would have to face abandoning ship and be at the mercy of the very cold water in the Sound. Useful consciousness might last maybe 5 to 10 minutes before hypothermia wins. Do this to several of the ferries in a coordinated attack and you have the desired effect.
I used to really like Seattle my first assignment in the Air Force back in 1976 was at Mc Chord AFB and have some great memories from running around Puget Sound, the Olympic Range, and Mt Rainer. Too bad it has become a home for clueless contrarian America hating leftist. I would really hate to see even these useful idiots exposed to this type of mass murder. Those that survive would require therapy for decades to come to grips of why the Jihadist hate them or through a significant break-through finally shift their world view to who the real enemies of freedom are.
Sons of Ishmael, clearly in the photo. God warned us about him and his off spring in Gen 16:12. Don’t ignore it as it is playing out throughout the whole world. And they are arch enemies of Ishmael’s half brother Isaac and his offspring. His hand will be against every man and everyman’s hand will be against him. And he will live in hostility toward all his brothers. Turning out to be correct information since given out by God several thousand years ago.
Support and defend the Constitution -against- all enemies, foreign and domestic.
Thanks pb, I rushed a bit on way out the door, major opps there.
OT
Flying Imam up date.
http://crosswordbebop.blogspot.com/2007/08/flying-imams-legal-skirmish.html
DarkKnight is kinda reminding me of Geraldo…
No big mustache, no drugs and no blow ups with O’Reilly.
DarkKnight’s primary (and myopic) argumentative emphasis in many of these issues seems to be the color of one’s skin above all other factors.
I think he might be Al Sharpton or a proxy thereof.
Edit: drug legalization
The first world trade center attack should have changed everyone. If the SECOND didn’t, you are on the wrong side…
Not everything has to do with race. Discrimination and profiling is wrong and dangerous, including religious iscimination. People jump to conclusions very often based on their appearence. I have really enjoyed the “Gods Warriors” coverage on CNN and how little we understand of each other.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/08/21/hijab.godswarriors/index.html
So, your personal endorsement of racial quotas and Affirmative Action programs would be considered wrong and dangerous? If not, that’s mighty hypocritical.
We -all- use profiling in our daily lives, including you, DK. It is natural to do so. To say otherwise is disingenuous. I understand that you have been programmed to say otherwise, but if you consider the validity of your logic when applied to the real world, your textbook Liberal position is rather foolish and naive.
Bullseye!
Its funny to see how this entire thread quickly turned into everyone refuting what DarkKnight had to say…….its also laughable how easily his lame arguments got undressed by everyone on this posting.