Buh-bye, Larry Craig
Two Senate Republican colleagues, including John McCain, called Wednesday for Sen. Larry Craig to resign. The White House, too, expressed disappointment in the case of the Idaho Republican caught in a men’s room undercover police operation.
Arizona Sen. McCain and Norm Coleman of Minnesota, the state where Craig was arrested, became the first senators to join Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., urging Craig’s resignation.McCain told CNN the decision was Craig’s to make, “but my opinion is that when you plead guilty to a crime, you shouldn’t serve. That’s not a moral stand. That’s not a holier-than-thou. It’s just a factual situation.”
“I think he should resign,” McCain said.
Coleman said in a statement, “Senator Craig pled guilty to a crime involving conduct unbecoming a senator.”
Hoekstra said Craig “represents the Republican party” and that “his conduct throughout this matter has been inappropriate for a U.S. senator.”
Buh-bye. Advice to other conservatives who might be downplaying the Craig crisis: Blubbering about Barney Frank is the wrong way to handle this. Are there media and political double standards? Yes. There always will be. But this ain’t the time to take out your tired old talking points. Larry Craig is bad for the GOP. Period. He’s a distraction from bigger problems and more important policy debates. He should go away and get some help.
***
Craig steps down from his top committee posts, reports the Politico.
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I concur.
Buh-bye
and might I say, don’t let the stall door hit you in the butt.
Mark Belling, subbing for Rush today, brought up a great point about all this.
When GOP members are caught in the wrong, it is the GOP / Conservative faithful who are the ones who want them gone, and make it happen.
When Dems are caught in the wrong, they will hem and haw and defend their own to the very end. ( Frank, Jefferson, Clinton, et al. )
With that said, I agree 100%, Michelle - we should not be saying “Well, yeah, but look at what YOUR guy did”, even though it is a valid point. We need to say to Sen. Craig, “Buh-bye” and be gone with him.
The question is this - is the Idaho Governor likely to replace him with another Republican?
I kinda agree with MM. Give the guy the boot, but make sure that any attempts by Dem/Libs of hypocrisy are deflected by bringing up the various Dem deviants.
I hate to say this, but….
given the way they’ve been acting, does it really matter?
Hello, hello, is that you Teddy tapping on the bottom of the Oldsmobile. Someone tell me why Teddy is still in the Senate ruining the country? No people died in the toe tapping incident.
Or maybe we could talk about Barney’s men for sale outfit run out of his apartment.
Slight double standard.
Let them have their standards, I refuse to submit. Lowering ourselves to them will only hasten the further erosion of our once great country.
Stand for something or stand for nothing.
That could be a song somewhere!
Michelle–Devil’s Advocate here: what would you say to Craig serving out the rest of his term and not running for re-election?
I think that’s what will happen.
Do not pass go! Do not collect $200!
And, above all else, do not collect a federal pension.
Stick a fork in him, Chester.
No “stalling” Senator.
see-dubya,
MM can answer for herself, but from her earlier posting I do not think that fits with how she feels.
Leaving him in only gives the demoncrats
another excuse to call all of us two faced
repubs.
So the guy lied about having sex? Since when does that matter? Oh, sorry, Republican. My bad.
Please, continue.
Here’s another take on what you call the double standard. If a gay friendly Democrat turns out to be gay, it’s OK. If a Republican who build a career on gay bashing and homophobia turns out to be gay, it exposes that Republican as a hypocrite. A Republican who has build a career on “family values”, the sexual good behavior of public officials is caught violating those principles he was elected to protect. If a Democrat who was elected by promising to raise taxes on the rich cheats on his wife, he is not violating a campaign promise. The Republican is.
By the way, the Bible forbids divorce. How come you don’t mind when supposedly Christian politicians get divorced?
On-my-soap-box,
Very nice website you are linked to.
I have not called for Vitter to resign, though he needs to stay out of the dirt some.
With boycraig, for me it is the public bathroom thing.
I like to be able to enter one without being hit on, or have my grandson hit on.
BoyCraig might do either.
Lack of character allowed him to sink to his lowest. We can do better.
O
Thanks, it is mine. It is our ministry, being HIS hands and feet in Haiti!
Blog soon to come - as if I have time. Taking notes from the best blog on earth, Michelle’s!
What??? That was not a very articulate statement.
Yes, I agree with most here; Senator Craig, resign today.
Toe tapping and looking for an empty stall when you need to take a dump.
To me this is thin gruel and no reason to toss a long standing Senator who has fought for your causes long before you even became aware of what those causes were.
To those of you who think it was ill advised to cop a plea to a lesser charge, point out a survivor of a sex crime trial to me.
Micheal Jackson is innocent by law right?
Hypocrits. Patting yourself on the back and saying cutsie phrases like “Buh Bye” when one of your own is railroaded.
You get the government you deserve.
How long is the list of crimes unbecoming? We could fill the internet with the ‘unbecoming’ things many of the senate and congress do. I want this twit gone, along with a large contingent of his cohorts, fellow slugs, ilk. Whatever.
And furthermore, Craig never has Ben-Gay. I didn’t know they used that stuff.
I bet the libs are pissed off that the Idaho Statesman didn’t sit on this until, oh, say September 2008.
If the gruel is so thin then he should have had no trouble beating the charge. Instead, he plead guilty and is now reaping what he sewed.
And don’t compare a rape trial to a trial where the main question would have been “did you or did you not play footsie in the bathroom?” That’s not even a close comparison. If you think the two are similar than you’re a fool.
I’ll railroad anyone whose behavior I find disagreeable. I wasn’t aware that expecting the best behavior out of our Senate and calling for their resignation when they make such egregious mistakes was hypocritical. Seems to be that that’s quite consistent.
I don’t look through a crack in a closed door to see if someone is in a stall. You might, I don’t.
I prefer to stand off to the side and look under the partition to see if any feet are visible from
.
Seeing four feet in one stall will cause me to move on, quicker than a Senator can tap his foot I might add.
And have you ever put your foot into the other stall? Get real, this is perversion.
What incensed me was that Bob Beckel was criticizing republicans for hypocrisy given that he was caught soliciting prostitutes a few years ago.
If Bob Beckel chooses to do that, I am not going to condemn him. He should look in the mirror before bashing a man who devoted his life to public service.
What Senator Craig did was vile, but he did not lie under oath or subvert the Constitution.
His resigning should be up to the voters of Ohio, and as long as Ted Kennedy is in office, the left has nothing to say.
There is a big parallel between this, Owen Wilson, Kurt Cobain, and Richard Jewell. We push people until they are at the breaking point, and then are shocked when they die broken, either through sadness, loneliness, or suicide.
I pray Larry Craig does not take his own life, and that he heals from his mistakes.
Respectfully,
eric http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
Aside from the obvious serious aspects of this case, I can’t help but be amused at the other side of it.
I have always been pro police and sympathize with the difficulty of their jobs and the types of people they have to interact with, but don’t they have more important work to do than hanging around public toilets conducting “undercover” operations?
There is a great site that will move and interest everyone. If anyone can post the link I’d appreciate it (as I can’t). odmp.org Stands for officer down memorial page. Full of interesting info about fallen officers dating from 1800s to literally today.
True, but the right has plenty to say.
And we’re saying “Get out…”
Well, we’re also pushing the stall door to make sure it’s closed, and saying “OCCUPIED!!”, but that’s neither here nor there…
I don’t care if he’s dem or rep he’s a perv plain and simple. If Buh-bye upsets you papertiger, how bout? Later sicko!
I dunno. You like the idea of them molesting a kid in the stall, or having “relations” with small children around?
I think that if they are going to have plainclothed officers at the airport, you might as well keep perverts on their toes.
But really, when you’re handed this assignment as the officer, it’s gotta wound the pride a little, yah know?
“Go find gay sex in our bathrooms” doesn’t have the same heroic ring as “Go make sure no one plants a bomb on an airplane”.
And therein lies the difference between conservatives and liberals.
Nice website CC
Here are the links.
The Officer Down Memorial Page, Inc. (ODMP) has partnered with PoliceLink to provide our visitors with official ODMP line of duty death notifications, delivered directly to your e-mail inbox.
PoliceLink is a strong supporter of the ODMP’s mission and is proud to offer this free service to all ODMP visitors.
Well, not if you’re a single mom sending her young boy into a public restroom alone in an airport…
‘Hes gay…. so what?’
Isn’t this what the left should be saying about this? That is what they are always preaching about the gay lifestyle, aren’t they? But they are going to play this politically for everything they can get out of it, and try to use this to influence the upcoming primaries as well.
But I agree, this guy needs to go. He plead guilty to a crime, and his behavior is definitely unbecoming of a senator.
Buh-bye!
Arizona Sen. McCain and Norm Coleman of Minnesota, the state where Craig was arrested, became the first senators to join Rep. Peter Hoekstra, R-Mich., urging Craig’s resignation.
With “friends” like these, who needs democrats?
I thought AJ was attacking me. I did not realize I was not the only tiger in the room. Those comments are not worthy of a true tiger.
As for Larry Craig, I hope he does not play the “gay card,” like Jim McGreevey did.
A true measure of equality is judging people the same. Larry Craig is not a gay American. He is a man who broke the law who might be gay.
Respectfully,
eric aka Tygrrrr Express
From the Raging Republican
Isn’t this what the left should be saying about this? That is what they are always preaching about the gay lifestyle, aren’t they? But they are going to play this politically for everything they can get out of it, and try to use this to influence the upcoming primaries as well.
Very close to admitting that you are willing to toss a long standing Senator over the flimsiest of charges merely for political expedience.
Now imagine Senator Craig had played it the way you wanted, with the full trial and media analyzing and the TeeVee tours of Minneapolis toilets.
With people like you as constituent it is no wonder that the GOP congress holds their head down, never going out on a limb for whats right.
They can’t afford to.
Since we hope Craig won’t play the “gay card” is it ok if I play the “Straight Pride” card?
I am straight and I like women!-Especially my girlfriend!
Dersu: Thanks for posting the links and the extra info.
No way blacktygrrr, how could I attack a fellow NFL fan? (even though you don’t root for the seahawks)
I’d rather see Jose McCain resign for conspiracy to obstruct immigration laws. McCain is a big time piece of garbage.
If we force Brokeback Larry to resign, what does this mean for Vitter?
I’m not sure I like the precedent. How would we justify not going after Vitter?
After witnessing the cspan coverage of shamnesty one can only dream that we start from scratch and have all of them resign. Yes, I’m being serious for once, dont hold it against me.
Please excuse my far fetched thinking it’s 116 degrees here today, I may have heatstroke.
As a husband and father, I try to live my life in such a way that is above reproach. Especially so, because I AM a husband and father. It’s beyond me why an elected official, be he/she a Democrat or Republican, can’t understand this simple point and, because his/her life is very public, live according to a higher standard.
I suspect it will come to that as the election grows closer. The left is desperate on issues and thus will demand GOP members of Congress resign if they jaywalked 40 years ago instead.
That’s why I disagree with Michelle and others in going along with the liberal media-driven frenzy and demanding this guy’s resignation. I think it’s a mistake to ask, in mid-air, “how high?” when the attack media says “jump”.
Remember that Trent Lott was driven out in a like left-wing media attack just for making what otherwise would have been just a few kind remarks at an old man’s birthday party.
He may not resign till he realizes he is being publicly referred to as “The Knees of the Senate”
Yup. The left will keep throwing stones and demanding GOP resignations as long as the GOP is willing to capitulate.
But… I thought only Democrats were guilty of double standards…
BEST LINE EVAH! Thanks Mr Felix for making my day.
Soliciting a prostitute is bad. But he didn’t do it in a public bathroom for all to see…a number of have called for Vitter to go as well. As I’ve said before, if you can’t make good decisions about your own personal life, then what makes me think you can make good decisions about my life?
If they were so flimsy, then why did he plead guilty?
FYI, has anyone ever tried his wide stance excuse? I’m 6′2″ and there is no possible way for me to put my feet under the other stall without it being extremely uncomfortable. It can’t happen by accident unless you’re a really tall person.
I think if you’re going to have a set of “moral rules” which, if one is broken, demands resignation you should be able to cite the source (e.g. Bible). That’s rather than going by a completely arbitrary based one.
I doubt the entire world could fit in a bathroom stall.
(As a side note, being a local, I should point out that the police here are very political. You can guess which way.)
So, should he go? What about those who have had sex before marriage or who have commited adultery? Are they to be booted out? If not, why not?
I doubt that what Craig may or may not have done in a bathroom has very little impact on your personal life. I know it didn’t affect mine one whit. The only way it could possible affect you, me or anyone else is if it influenced his voting in the Senate.
How did it change, impact or influence his voting record?
Which “bad decisions” disqualify a person from holding political office?
What amazes me the most about all of this is that there appear to be some people who just don’t care that our leaders are engaging in this behavior.
Rather than condone this instance, call for his resignation, and move on, they feel the need to insult those of us who express outrage over the fact that a Senator cannot make the right decision on what should be a no-brainer.
Don’t solicit sex with a stranger in a public bathroom. If you can’t make the right choice on something like this, you don’t deserve to be a Senator; hell, you probably don’t even deserve to have a pet.
But instead of being sincerely outraged, the media, the trolls on this page and others, and thousands of other people would rather act like a smug jack@@@ and tell us, the outraged who demand a resignation, that we’re either hypocrites, or that we’re so politically inept that we’d put a long standing Senator in front of the bus for pleading guilty to flimsy charges. These are piss poor responses to something that they should be equally outraged about.
The sad thing is, the left now has the ability to say this with a straight face because they haves become so bereft of morals that they couldn’t even dream of doing the same thing to their officials. Having politicians who have the clout to push their ridiculous agenda is more important to them than the integrity of the institutions. Guess what? That leads to a real slippery slope where the ends justify all sorts of outrageous means.
But that’s okay, because apparently you lefties know what’s best for us. Which is a joke since you can’t even stand to condemn bathroom sex or accepting bribes and hiding them in your freezer. And when that gets brought up, spout the same old Bush lied people died garbage that you’ve been rehashing for the last 5 years.
Your party is a joke and they have the lowest approval rating to show for it. Deal with it. At least we’re doing something to get the crapweasels out of our party.
what should we do about vitter then?
Why are you terrified of answering the central questions and instead can only
attack people personally, Taylor?
Taylor - which actions or behaviors disqualify a person from holding political office?
Sex before marriage?
Adultery?
Homosexual sex?
Fathering a child out of wedlock?
If a person is caught frozen like a deer in the headlights by those questions then s/he really just doesn’t have the depth of intellectual honesty to pass judgment on this matter.
I think you’ll get a whole lotta of hemming and hawing on that one, derel. Because the next question, the central one - if the answer is “boot him” - is “Why?”. It’s a hard question, but not a trick one.
i keep going back and forth on vitter and on larry craig.
Yeah, I think if a person has a well thought out, articulate rationale either way it’s a good thing(as Martha Stewart sez). Otherwise they just have an “irrational rationale” to go on. Even a healthy, honest “I dunno” is better than that.
If I’m typing a repsonse and your statement isn’t there yet, I can’t answer it. Furthermore, I don’t spend every waking moment on this site, so don’t get on your high horse and say that I’m acting like a dear in the head lights because you don’t get an immediate response.
Now, you may not be aware of these commandments we Christians and Jews have. There are 10 of them, they form the basis of our morality. We can then use these commandments to see if certain behaviors may or may not be acceptable. There’s plenty of room for interpretation for many issues that are not explicit in these commandments (eg., gay sex, sex before marriage), but for others there is not, such as adultery. So when a person’s behvaior explicity violates one of these I can make a judgment. Furthermore, when something that violates one of these commandments is compounded by something as vile as solicitng sex in a public bathroom where CHILDREN go, then it makes it even worse.
I’ll say it again, and I guess I have to explain it further since you didn’t seem to get it. If a person cannot makethe right decisions about his personal like (you know, the one’s that have a profound effect on himself, and his friends and family) then he should not be responsible for decisions that affect me.
Being in the Senate (or house, or the presidency) means that the public has invested a large amount of trust in your decision making ability. And when you do something like he did, his decision making ability should be questioned.
And the fact that you still won’t go out and say that there is something wrong with attempting to have sex in a public restroom says a lot about you.
See? I can attack you for being a fool and answer your questions. Not that hard.
i’ve not heard anyone here say that what he did was not wrong–the hard part is what to do about it.
my gut says he has to go, but that opens the doors to some thorny problems. how can we then accept vitter?
and where does it stop? I don’t think we’ve heard the last of the congressional creepiness for this season. there will be more.
Hi Taylor -
Actually, there are 613 commandments:
A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)
and that’s just in the Old Testament.
The Bible I know condemns such things pretty harshly, for example:
1st Corinthians, Chapter 6 -
6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extorters, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Matthew, Chapter 5
” 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Have you ever experienced lust in your heart? If so, according to Christ, you are an adulterer - if you accept His Word as true. Since Christ equates it with physical adultery couldn’t Sen. Craig, in turn, denounce you?
the problem with that, Taylor, is that you haven’t said how what Sen. Craig might have did in the bathroom has affected you. I asked, but I’ll try again. I don’t know that it impacted his voting record at all. I’m honestly curious and don’t mind being enlightened on that account.
Actually, I think there’s something wrong with being completely obsessed over it especially if someone cannot answer these questions. (I’ll try again - they are not trick questions)
Should a person be booted out of office for:
Premarital sex?
Adultery?
Homosexual sex?
Fathering a child with someone other than his wife?
i think it’s pretty reasonable to note that a person who cannot clearly answer those basic questions doesn’t have much ground to stand on in addressing Sen. Craig’s actions. That’s not an insult, just a very obvious conclusion.
It’s sad when all anyone has to offer is purely personal attacks in place of rational thought and clear answers, Taylor. And as noted, you didn’t answer the questions. That’s why we’re giving it another try here.
That’s pretty sane reasoning, especially anytime there’s a liberal media feed-frenzy going on. It’s tempting to grab a torch and chase the Frankenstein monster du jour in a emotional rush to bad judgment. This can be handled thoughtfully and sanely.
I think you’re correct that a Crusade to boot sinners out of Congress probably is not the star to which hitch ones’ wagon.
A rush to sack all the poitical sinners and empty out the government, that might make a little more sense. But the liberals and their media allies aren’t gonna go after fellow liberals.
They went 30-40 years back on Craig trying to find dirt. I don’t think that sort of thing should be rewarded or encouraged as acceptable campaigning. If we do reward it we’re setting up the next election to be a complete sleaze-fest.
We need Vitter and Craig, be a bit more tolerant of the gay lifestyle, one can be a strong conservative in other ways and do much good for us.
**************
I dunno. How about you ask the officers assigned to digging up little Jessica Lunsford.
There are many ways to serve and be quietly heroic. A gay person can be as heroic as anyone else. A straight person can be as evil as any gay person, and being gay is not evil.
My God. I am surrounded by miracles of biology.
You must be biological oddities if you never had to do the nervous dance while waiting for a stall at the airport.
And you never look in the crack of the door right in front of you to check if the stall is occupied. Must have straight backs without a crick among you. Hope that lasts till you are a ripe old age, all the way into your 60’s and beyond.
And this talk of wide stances, I guess you travel light, without luggage, if you ever travel at all. Me, if I am at the airport in a city I keep a firm grip on my carry-ons. If there is a tight squeeze in the restroom, well so be it. I am not loosing my bag to some vagrant or hobo.
I’ll sit on it if I have to.
If my foot sticks out at an odd angle into the stall next to me, well the occupant of that stall will have to adjust himself accordingly.
One time I was run down by a psycho in a pickup while walking across a field. Luckily the field was within veiw of the local firestation. They came immediately as two large fellows were talking about dumping me in the back of their pickup to take me to God knows where. Police were called. Reports were written.
I was carted away by ambulance.
When I got out of the hospital I inquired about a copy of the police report. They hemmed and hawwed. Wouldn’t tell me what had happened to the cretins who hit me.
Eventually, after an inordinate amount of time I got a copy. To my astonishment, the report declared it a no fault accident. According to the official record I had jumped onto the hood of this truck as it barreled at me and was at least 50% at fault.
SO don’t tell me that policemen are infallible.
Every American is afforded the presumption of innocence. Even Senators.
Especially Senators. Because Larry Craig isn’t just some poor shmuck like me caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. He is the difference between losing and winning a war with millions of lives in the balance. He is the difference between you living in a city where only criminals and predators have guns, or you having the right to carry your own means of defence and having a fighting chance.
He is the difference between the climate gestapo condemning you and your children to a life beholding to the EPA, or breathing free and riding safely in a large SUV.
There are too many things riding on this for me to care about your personal squeemishness and subconscious homophobia.
You stood by when the dem media destroyed Tom Delay. You waved buh bye when they malled Donald Rumsfeld.
You whistled as they pummeled John Ashcroft and Albert Gonsalez.
When? When oh Lord when are you people going to start standing up for the people on your own side?
You all moan “They won’t listen to me on border security” “They won’t listen to me about Harriet Meyers”
Why the hell should the GOP congress listen to you when you will throw them under the bus for the first media con job you see?
They would do better to lay low, not rock the boat, and let the commies run the show.
Remember what happened to Senator McCarthy? He rocked the boat. He was worth something. And his spirit was murdered by media vultures like the ones who are circling Larry Craig.
If you want to have a stable of wishy washy finger to the wind leaders you will surely have them. It’s the way you are going.
Well said, papertiger!
Presumption of innocence, standing by those of your team/party/…, where is that courage these days?
I don’t know that homosexual acts is the big issue at hand, though such things & the details involved make many of us squirm.
If the issue (as some may have it) is whatever Craigs’ action, that it has somehow destroyed or ruined all our lives, then there’s a problem.
If that were so, I’d have to join the ranks of the looney left and demand that President Bush and VP Cheney both be booted out of office. Their drunk driving arrests display a bigger danger potential for destroying human lives than some guy tapping his feet in a toliet.
In Craigs’ case the only ones who he really has the potential to affect adversely are, first and foremost, his wife and secondly, the voters of Idaho. Both have the option to dump him, if they choose and he will have to answer to both.
A person can argue against his vote on bills, but as far as I know there’s no causal link between his voting record and any bathroom tap-dancing.
just saw on Lou Dobbs that Craig supported the Shamnesty bill, now there is a reason to boot him.
Yup, knew that. That’s a valid reason to work to replace with with someone whose voting is more in tune with the people.
just don’t want him replaced by a dem before his term ends
Idaho Gov.Otter is a Republican, Idaho is a “safe Red State”. I’m guessing that unless the voters of Idaho freaked out, the Craig issue will only be a big deal to “outsiders”. People often tend to love their own politicians, warts and all.
now i can sleep a bit better, thx PP
Yer, welcome, GL.
Of course, if Craig resigns Gov. Otter could appoint someone worse. Sleep tight, lol.
greenlib-
Thanks for justifying a sterotype, I was wondering how long it would take a person to bring in the Matthew Shepheard “hate crime”.
Sorry straights aren’t as evil as gays, its just that straights get the press coverage when they murder a percieved gay based on orientation. Even if the gay person wasn’t targeted based on orientation, but some other reason such as the victim giving a criminal the time/place/opportunity to commit a crime
BTW-Check out the newspaper articles from the perps on the shepheard case and they admit time/place/opportunity was the reason and they didn’t know he was gay.
And I won’t even start on NAMBLA, that is a post for another day.
If you know Mary Stachowicz, Jessie Dirkhishing, and Jeffrey Curley then you are in the minority.
These are victims of straight hate crimes and there wasn’t anything near the press coverage demanding special protections, and etc…Sadly most gays I have found praise shepherd, but refuse to acknowledge the suffering of Stachowicz, Dirkishing, and Curley.
And the few gays that do acknowledge Stach,Dirk, and Curley quickly point out the gays are targeted for hate crimes at a higher rate than straights, and conviently IGNORE the number of straights that are victims of other types of hate crimes by gays ranging from religious, political and racial that don’t meet the FBI’s criteria for a crime based on orientation.
This Idaho voter had it with him on his support of illegal invaders of my country and community. So long Larry Craig and don’t let the Men’s Room door hit you in the butt on the way out.
purplepeep…
Here it goes…
ILLEGAL ONES
I don’t give a rat’s butt about 10 commandments or 613…
I do care that he broke the law.
From what I understand, Vitter did also.
Chuck them both out.
I’ve said before I don’t care if Craig is gay or not. If he is, more power to him. Though I feel sorry for his wife.
This isn’t about ‘gay’. This isn’t about ’sex outside of marriage’. It’s about breaking the law.
Frankly anyone who is having sex with strangers male/female/gay/straight needs to have their head examined. In this day and age unsafe sexual behavior can be deadly. BUT it isn’t against the law. However, soliciting for it in a public place is. He could have gone to craigslist and found dozens of partners. He chose to use a public restroom instead.
Stupid… and illegal
Resisting arrest.
Stupid… and illegal
A speeding ticket I can overlook. (As long as it isn’t criminal speeding which here is 35 over the speed limit I think.) Just about everything else… no way. I expect the people who represent me to REPRESENT ME. I’m not a criminal. I don’t want one in congress.
You still haven’t said you oppose such behavior. What you have done is to pretend to take the high road on this, when all you’re trying to do is be smug about it.
If you really can’t tell the difference between someone getting upset about being a public nuisance and somone having premarital sex, then I pity you.
You asked me to point out what gives me my morality, so I gave it to you. Again, you give a smug response, call me out on personal attacks, all the while doing the same to me.
And you keep saying that this is all about bathroom toe tapping. If that were all this was, no one would care. Craig didn’t plead guilty to bathroom toe tapping. He plead guilty to disorderly conduct, which came as a result from him trying to pick up someone in the bathroom. If you break the law in such an egregious manner, then you shouldn’t be serving.
So how does this affect me? Again you don’t seem to grasp the fact that we have to consider his future decision making ability. If he’s secretly trolling for sex in bathrooms, all the while espousing Christian virtues in public, then he’s opened himself up to blackmail. Just because he hasn’t made a decision that’s affected me, the his stance on immigration could have, doesn’t mean it won’t in the future. His judgement is in question, and I don’t want a Senator in office whose judgement I cannot trust.
I think he should resign, the sooner the better, he is harming the brand, and it will be used on the Republican Presidential Canidate in 2008. It is better for this to be dealt with - sorted out now. Craig doesn’t appear to be thinking of his party but himself, sign of a politician not a statesman. It might behove the Republican Party, to do some house cleaning now not later. I would expect Craig and others like him to fall on their swords but I don’t expect it to happen, why? Check Congress’s approval rating, it is low for a reason.
“which actions or behaviors disqualify a person from holding political office?”
That’s as good a reason as any, I suppose, 3Steps. Though I think you’ll get a lotta differences on which laws they should be “allowed” to break and which ones should bring down the wrath of whatever. e.g. some folks think having smoked pot isn’t a big deal, others don’t want any kind of “druggie” to be in office.
I mentioned above about how the Presidents’ and Veeps’ drunk driving records would - and with some good reason - be of great concern to many, due drunk driving’s obviously very dangerous nature.
Would breaking the law in driving drunk be on an “allowed” list or should it require the person to recuse him/herself from holding public office?
Not really, Taylor. If you check, you just made a vague reference to the “Ten Commandments”. I literally supplied chapter and verse. Though you were still unable to answer the posed basic, central questions.
I don’t know if the only thing you’re working with is a hazy recollection of the Decalogue or what. If so, we can still work a bit with that.
The Commandments forbidding coveting anything that doesn’t belong to oneself and agsinst taking Gods’ name in vain, for example. I would expect a survey of Congress to turn up a lot of violators on those accounts. If we are honestly driven by a need to enforce God’s Word they must be booted out.
Then we can start in on those who have divorced and remarried, with the exception for those whose spouse was unfaithful first. Jesus was quite clear about that - it’s adultery.
Taylor, instead of answering things that you fantasize I said, you should see if you can answer the simple qustions that I have actually asked.
As I sez, they’re not trick questions. e.g. “Should homosexual sex exclude a person from holding public office?” just shouldn’t pose a major quandry to answer.
I’m glad you realize what Craig or anyone else does in a bathroom isn ‘t going to destroy your life, Taylor. In fact, as you now confess, Craigs actions have had zero affect on you. If you want to worry about unknown hypothetical “future” actions of politicians, I’m guessing there’s a few names folks round here could suggest that you might wanna spend your time really fretting and fussing about. (I suspect you’ll hear the word “Hillary” alot.)
I’m sorry if you were caused to feel bad, Taylor; but that’s something - a feeling of inferoirity - that only you can control. If you concentrate more being on topic & on answering questions and less on personalities, I think you’ll find it helpful.
Again, you still don’t express any outrage over his outrage.So every time you accuse me of not answering a question, you still don’t respond to where you stand on this issue.
And again you load your response with smugness while accusing me of peronsal attacks. I’ll admit, I’ve called you a fool, but at least I’m not hiding behide a pseudo-intellectual attitude to do so. You act as if I don’t understand that you’re insulting me.
You continually want to bring this back to whether I want homosexuals in office or not, as if that’s what my concern has been. For the record, I don’t care if you’re gay or not, but I do expect appropriate behavior in public. And soliciting sex in a bathroom (be it gay sex or not) is inappropriate, though you seem to have a hard time acknowleding that.
The bottom line is this. For all your beating around the bush, you don’t seem to care about the integrity of the office. I do. Rather than express outrage that an elected official who did something heinous and illegal while serving in office, you try and wash it away by making silly comparisons to behaviors that aren’t illegal but may be considered immoral to some.
Don’t flatter yourself. My happiness is not tied to your responses.
Every day Republicans become more like Democrats.
This is not the time for excuses or distractions. He needs to go. Now.
Any Senator who doesn’t step up to that fact should share the taint of supporting deception, attempts to strongarm the police and breaking the law. Supporting Craig at this point can come from no other motive but rabid partisanship.
He needs to go. Now. We are not Democrats.
I apologized for hurting your feelings, Taylor.
Nope, I’ve asked which actions exclude a person from holding office, homosexual sex was just one.
Let’s recap.
You don’t know if the following should exclude (or should not exclude) a person from public office -
Premarital sex, sex outside of marriage, having children with someone other than ones’ spouse, engaging in homosexual acts.
You said you based your determination that Craig should be booted on the “10 Commandments”, but cannot explain how you got that determination from the “10 Coms”. (e.g. “he broke # because he did X,Y,Z., therfore he’s gotta go”)
I’ve tried to follow you, Taylor, but you just haven’t provided a linear or consistent logic. It would seem to me
-since the “10 Commandments” didn;t quite work out as an explanation - that you’re going more by emotionalism as opposed to a well thought out rationale. That’s not an insult, some people just “think emotionally”.
This is just one of those times when people will have to agree to disagree, I guess.
Craig’s behavior takes us to a strange land. It’s a land of “conduct unbecoming”.
Others here have professed discomfort with that label, and I share that feeling. It’s an ugly term by virtue of its vagueness. It could be applied to countless behaviors. What’s next? A congressman who voted against the tobacco industry spotted having a cigar? A legislator who was a member of MADD having a cocktail? A perfectly able White House staffer parked in a handicap spot? What will be the next thing?
In the arena of scandal, Republicans don’t become more like Democrats every day. To pretend otherwise is a denial that Republicans have always had their share of scandal, just like the Dems. We were never free of its taint, nor were they. But it’s the category of behaviors now considered scandalous that is unnerving to me.
Who decides what conduct is unbecoming? Fellow legislators? The press?
You’re right, inasmuch as they want to wildly throw as many Republicans as possible under the bus.
if the liberal media is successful with this strategy and are rewarded for it, they’ll be going after the “fellow legislators” next. It’ll be a situation of “there was no one left to speak up for me” when the media demands a Senator be booted for lighting a cig in a No Smoking area or a like witchhunt.
So the legislators better think before casting stones that’ll act as boomerangs
Any word as to what Melisa Ethridge thinks? (i really dont care)
No, no, yes, no. Ya happy?
And you still haven’t answered my question. Do you or do you not find his behavior heinous?
Again. Don’t flatter yourself. You can call me whatever you want, it doesn’t phase me.
Purplepeep
If you are asking me… then ya DUI… definately OUT OF OFFICE.
Everytime someone is killed by a drunk driver it makes me sick. I quit drinking a decade ago. But even when I did, I NEVER drank and drove. Because I was not willing to risk anyones life (even my own
) for ‘fun’.
Our government is the one that makes the laws. I expect them to follow them.
Unfortunately, Dems close ranks around their miscreants much more than Reps do, that is why we must carefully consider the ramifications of immediately booting Senator Craig and other morally challenged Reps. Do we want a veto-proof Dem Congress, which we may have if we boot Reps willy-nilly?
This is one of the saddest things I’ve seen. To have a man’s life crash and burn for something this stupid.
Yesterday I thought he should resign because he pleaded guilty and because he is a liability.
Today I think he should serve out his term and not stand for re-election. Preserve some dignity.
I didn’t really know much about him except that he voted for amnesty a couple months back, which angered me at the time. But I just can’t help feeling sorry for him. The way he handled this entire affair, the naivete, was almost childlike. And now he says he’s going to get counsel and fight it, so, so naive.
Sorry Larry. It’s a brutal business.