“No wonder why we’re going down the tubes.” Update: Announcement set for Saturday; Update: 12:30pm conference scheduled
Update 9/1 10:30am. 12:30pm press conference scheduled today. Idaho Statesman reports the presser will take place at the Boise Depot.
Update 7pm Eastern. Via the Idaho Statesman…
Idaho Sen. Larry Craig will announce his career plans Saturday morning after widespread calls from fellow Republicans to resign over a men’s room sex sting, his spokesman said today.
“We haven’t quite scheduled anything, but we’re looking at doing something tomorrow,” said Craig’s spokesman Sid Smith. “We haven’t set a time or place yet.”
Dan Whiting, another Craig spokesman, said there would be an announcement Saturday but would not say whether Craig will step down.
Gov. Butch Otter already appears to have settled on a successor: Lt. Gov. Jim Risch, according to several Republicans familiar with internal deliberations.
Here’s the resignation ultimatum from the GOP.
Update 11:30am Eastern. Poll results so far…
I think the clear message to the GOP here is that the sooner Sen. Craig steps out of the spotlight, the better.
Newsbusters points out today’s NYTimes editorial supporting Craig and bashing GOP members who have called for his resignation as symbols of the “party’s intolerance” who are “demonizing homosexuality.” The NYTimes fumes that no Republican has called for Sen. David Vitter’s resignation, conveniently omitting the fact that Vitter hasn’t pleaded guilty to violating any laws.
You can’t win with these people. If the GOP leadership had embraced Craig, who do you think would be the first out of the block editorializing about Republican hypocrisy, corruption, and double standards? As I noted earlier this week on tee-vee, it ain’t who Craig is accused of playing footsie with…it’s where. The NYTimes sniffs that Craig was just “being stupid.” Try arguing that next time to a parent who takes his kid to a public restroom and is subjected to the kind of crap that the police were trying to crack down at the Minneapolis airport on June 11.
Update: Quittin’ time today?
***
“No wonder why we’re going down the tubes.”
That’s the very last, fitting comment on the Larry Craig police tape. Here’s the full transcript. If you haven’t listened to the whole thing yet, it’s at HA and all over the cable TV airwaves. I’ve gotten a few e-mails from readers who say the tape has changed their minds and made them more sympathetic to Craig. But as one reader e-mailed, Craig’s guilty “tell” came in the first 30 seconds of the tape. Right off the bat, Craig goes on record arguing that the police officer started it, not him:
OFFICER: All right. I know I can bring you to jail, but that’s not my goal here, okay? (inaudible)
CRAIG: Don’t do that. You. You.
OFFICER: I’m not going to bring you to jail.
CRAIG: You solicited me.
Hmmmmm. If he “didn’t do these kinds of things,” as he stated later in the tape, how did he know he was being “solicited?”
Has the tape changed your mind?
Weigh in:
***
CQ Politics looks at the electoral prospects:
Idaho Republican Sen. Larry E. Craig so far has withstood the gale of controversy that has surrounded him since Monday’s revelations of his recent conviction after an incident in a Minnesota airport men’s room, resisting calls from some of his Republican congressional colleagues for him to resign his seat — and a SurveyUSA poll in which 55 percent of adult Idaho respondents said he should step down…
…Given the very personal nature of Craig’s dilemma, his problems are not likely to deeply erode the Republican Party’s typical strong advantage in next year’s Senate race if he steps aside. President Bush piled up 68 percent of the state’s vote in 2004; in the state’s most recent Senate elections, Republican Michael D. Crapo won a second term in 2004 with no Democratic challenger on the ballot and Craig in 2002 defeated Democrat Alan Blinken, a former U.S. ambassador to Belgium, with 65 percent.
Speculation about possible Republican replacement candidates has swirled around two highly prominent officeholders: Mike Simpson, who is in his fifth term as representative of eastern Idaho’s 2nd District, and Jim Risch, who last year was elected for the second time as lieutenant governor after spending a brief stint as Idaho’s interim governor.
Before the Craig controversy broke, Simpson had been spreading the word that he would not run for the Senate next year. Dan Popkey, a columnist for the Idaho Statesman newspaper in Boise, wrote in an Aug. 12 column that Simpson would not run because doing so would almost certainly leave Idaho without a member on either chamber’s Appropriations Committee. Simpson, who had to climb the seniority ladder to gain a seat on House Appropriations, would be unlikely to immediately claim the Senate Appropriations seat that Craig long held.
Since then, though, Craig’s scandal — which on Wednesday forced him to give up his seat on Appropriations and other committees under pressure from the Senate Republican leadership — may have given Simpson a change of heart about next year’s Senate race.
“Rep. Simpson could hit the ground running in a way that other state-level officials couldn’t,” said Simpson spokesman Nikki Watts. “I wouldn’t even say it’s appealing. This is about Idaho being in a crisis and who can step up and help out. It’s not about what’s appealing for the congressman.” Watts added that Simpson was waiting to see how the Craig story unfolds before giving the contest more serious thought.
Risch has not been as reticent about his Senate ambitions, stating earlier this year that he would consider seeking the seat should Craig not run again.
In Washington, pressure continues to build for Craig’s resignation.
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After listening to that interview I think this has been a witch hunt and no wonder they dropped the lewd charges.
Can we just get that disgusting piece of turd out of government already? Watch though Republicans will wait till the damage gets worse before they move, they will be weighing the effect on the gay vote before they get him out. Worryning about bathroom antic instead of Wishful thinking…by Hugh Hewitt regarding President Bush
The more I think I this I have another question to ask the reporter who broke this story. The guilty plea happened on the 8th of this month, which the reporter stated he was waiting for till he released this story. If that is the case, why did the reporter then wait almost 3 weeks following the guilty plea to release and report this story? It is strange the timing just happen to be on the same day the Mr. Hsu and Hillary story broke, which I notice the MSM have completely ingored in favor of covering this.
I’m amazed at the people defending this guy. If you keep lowering the standards of who represents you, you’ll get exactly these types of events. I get more disgusted by ALL politicians every day.
Mike Simpson is another open borders loon and patsy for the Chamber of Commerce. Any actual conservatives in Idaho?
Well, not that I really want to defend Craig, but, do we have all the facts? Are we finding him guilty and in need of resignation because of the politics, ie, Democrats and the liberal media raising this minor little crime up to something like a major human rights violation?
Are we calling for his resignation to prove that we are tougher on our bad people then the libs are?
Where is compassion? Yes, we certainly require a better standard of conduct on our elected officials then the Lefties do. Perhaps we are jumping the gun, though, simply to avoid embarrasement in the press. Maybe we should be instead fighting back, and highlighting the hypocrisy of the left, who reelect their own slime, and hold them up as paragons.
Food for thought?
Funny when Dems get caught, they are treated like your weird uncle Joe, but when Repubs get caught, they are the scum of the earth. No excuses for Craig, just an observation of the political/MSM process.
The Metro airport commission has intervened to stop the officer from talking, so let’s ask the chairman of that commission to talk as to how this was leaked. I sent the following email to publicaffairs@mspmac.org
Metropolitan Airports Commission
Dear Mr. Lanners:
While I’m not a defender of US Senator Larry Craig, I am concerned as to how an otherwise innocuous police report was leaked to the Hill reporter in Washington, D.C. Can you tell me or the rest of the public how and why?
It seems to me it falls on your watch to know or find out. The person(s) responsible are irresponsible and should be “outed” as was Mr. Craig since they have violated a trust with public documents and the public in general. Their actions are no less reprehensible than those of Craig as the motive was obviously not in the interest of furthering moral standards but of something of a more political nature.
Please let me know what you determine.
Very unprofessional performance by the cop. The threat to take the story to the press should have prompted Craig to end the interview then and there. The “no wonder” comments were also out of line.
This smells like a setup - the cop got exactly what he sought, a quick guilty plea with long term results. How many other men were prosecuted during this “sting’?
Craig is a puke, but he had company.
I was struck by the fact that the taping and discussion, advice by the officer, was done before the Miranda Act.
The officer seems to say that if Sen. Craig pleads guilty that he will pay a fine and it will be over. If he pleads not guilty there will be a trial.
Here is why Sen. Craig pled guilty, based on the officer’s advice:
I do not know if he is guilty or not, but do wonder if entrapment is possible.
Regardless, this Senator’s life in politics is probably over. But it is possible that he is innocent.
The whole entire MSM conspiracy about covering this (#3,#7) is crazy talk. Fundraising scandal or lewd solicitation scandal. Which do you think sells more papers?
And as for Republicans trying to get rid of one of their own, I can’t say I’m surprised. The GOP platform and electoral strategy depends on intolerance towards homosexuals. You don’t hear many people clamoring to get rid of Vitter anymore. And treating women as “goods and services” is probably worse than anonymous sex in a bathroom stall. (Although both are obviously pretty bad).
You know what they say. Political careers end when they find you with a live boy or a dead girl. (Go crazy with Ted Kennedy jokes.)
That is how the Police conduct an interview.
What seems to be missed by many is the fact that Sen ‘Wide Stance’ from the great State of Idaho, picked up toilet paper from the floor in a public restroom. Who in their right truthful mind would that? What was he going to do with it?
I said it before and I ‘ll say it again, wait for the video. It was a sting for goodness sakes.
That depends. What is the party affiliation of the people involved in each case? Fundraising scandals are big news if they involve Republicans. Ask Tom Delay.
Let the crucifixion continue. What a shame. The GOP by their actions put people like this hideous man in a position whereby they feel compelled to hide who they are. (They wonder why so many feel distain for them.) They then attack the man because they are terrified of their own inadequate selves, fearing a “rub off” consequence. What a distasteful bunch of cowards.
The dems are worse. They defend every creature in existance, terrorist to fly, yet their high and mighty compassion seemingly disappears whenever the word conservative is applied to the ridiculous “scandal”
Ahh, so thats why all the liberals I see, including you, are going around saying “Whats the big deal? Leave the guy alone.”
I bet Foley would love to hear about how tolerant you people are towards homosexuals.
Can your hypocrisy get any thicker?
I smell Charlie Schumer in the 3rd stall. Just joking but hey, it smells of his opus operandi.
Has anyone ever learned what the “signal” is? Forewarned is forearmed so you can get out as fast as you can if you hear it — “not that there’s anything wrong with it” to quote Jerry Seinfeld.
After hearing the tape, I felt less sympathetic. He’s just using plausible deniability to weasel out of a bad situation. In truth, I think the police officer should have gotten more confirmation, before making the arrest, but it became clear to me, that there was solicitation by Craig.
Craig knew exactly what he was doing. I have worked cases like this befofre just outside of DC. He was following the routine and hoped to end up with the cop but not as a cop. No doubt about it. He made that clear when he told the cop that he had solicited him not the other way around.
Time to go Senator. Idahoans deserve someone true to their beliefs to represent them. The rest of us deserve someone with ethics and intregrity. Leave now while you still have a shred of dignity
Flenser,
Re what the MSM covers, they cover sex scanadals over fundraising scandals everytime. Everyone remembers Monica-gate. No one remembers the donors staying in the Lincoln Bedroom. As for Delay, I didn’t see that covered that extensively, at least outside of Washington. It was only a big deal after he stepped down and classily handed the seat to a Democrat.
And re liberal tolerance and hypocrisy, huh? If Foley were hitting on female pages, this wouldn’t have gotten nearly the same play. But since the GOP platform is intolerant, the GOP couldn’t afford to defend him.
As opposed to Gerry Studds who dated a male page and had his district (my district) forgive him.
I do wish Dems worked a little harder to get rid of their dead weight. I hate that Jefferson is still in office. And, although this is way before my time, I’m embarassed that Ted Kennedy wasn’t booted out of office after Chappaquidick.
But gay scandals will always hurt the GOP exponentially harder since homosexuality is not tolerated by the party.
One thing is clear. He’s been tried in the court of public opinion.
Second thing is clear. Democrats are never tried and convicted in the court of public opinion.
While I think Larry Craig should go, William Jefferson should spend not one more hour in Congress - let alone the head of the Homeland Security committee.
Republicans should continue holding themselves up to standard and the double standard should be erased.
None of us are perfect but Larry’s actions aren’t passing the smell-o-meter test.
zyzzyg, nowhere did the senator say that he picked up paper from the floor. It sounded to me like he picked up the low hanging end of a roll of toilet paper that was hanging on the wall.
I found a good example of the “signal” Or check this out.
Baklava,
William Jefferson isn’t the head of anything. He lost his spot on Ways and Means. Don’t know where the homeland security thing came from. I think you’re confusing him with someone else.
I wouldn’t worry about a trivial morals charge, which doesn’t affect anyone particularly, but he does seem to be not very good on illegal infiltration, which is destroying our country. Hang him on the morals charge.
Vatar, this is from the transcript:
OFFICER: Um, you you’re skipping some parts here, but what what about your hand?
CRAIG: What about it? I reached down, my foot like this. There was a piece of paper on the floor. I picked it up.
OFFICER: Okay.
And just why would you try to pick up a piece of paper off the airport bathroom floor? Ewwwww. Just let it lay.
If you read the transcript it is clear, he’s not being forthcoming. And his indignant “I’m not gay!” declarations that we’ve now heard ad nauseam - methinks he doth protest too much. Who cares if he’s gay or not? The heart of the matter is solicitation of lewd acts in a public bathroom.
We seem to have a lot of people willing to defend the senator even in the face of his implausible excuses. He has a “wide stance”. Oh, sure, we’ve all seen that in public bathrooms zillions of times - and the guy’s foot just happens to come into *your* stall and touch *your* foot. Happens all the time! Yeah, right. I don’t think the Senator could pass “the Urinal Test” (google it).
And I don’t think the Senator, or his defenders, pass the decency test - soliciting sex in a public bathroom. Those who can’t see the difference between this and, say, trying to pick up a chick in a bar, are strangely lacking in their powers of thought and discrimination. Those who try to turn the tables saying that we are trying to force our morality on everyone, well, if your idea of morals is that having sex in a public bathroom is just fine and dandy, the office is totally correct, no wonder we are going down the tubes, and into the sewer.
This tape made me mad. It is the same anger when I watch the show “Cops” or any of the other police reality concepts except “Reno 911″. I think that this senator is a jerk but based on his voting record and the fact he is a typical Washington elite. But the police could have arrested any male in the bathroom with their description of these actions and their excessive use of power. I have had enough of our government intruding constantly into our lives, whether going down the road and being stopped for going 5 miles over the speed limit; being hassled at the airport; receiving an endless, daily series of regulations that dictate how I do my job; or any of the other endless things we have to put up with.
Something needs to be done. Fortunately I live in the South and I am beginning to see a movement to once again succeed and get our freedom back.
Something about this whole thing is fishy. Is it illegal to meet people in a bathroom? Is it illegal to flirt in a restroom? Is footsie under the divider a crime?
I understand it is illegal to have sex there. I don’t see any evidence that there was the slightest bit of actual sex here. There were inferred meanings from body language. How do they know the intention wasn’t to go get a room?
Is that a crime?
Craig is a slut. That seems obvious. The voters in his district can decide if that disqualifies him. But there was no crime here I can see. Instead, there was a guilty plea to avoid a public outing. They blackmailed him in to a guily plea. That seems like a crime, not the acts described.
And isn’t there ’soliciting’ of this sort every day in every bar in America? Or is it only soliciting when its same sex?
I guess I am just not seeing what the big deal is. Apparently, trying to find someone to have gay sex with is apparently a crime now. While rather weird, what is the difference between trying to get someone to have gay sex with at a nightclub vs. an airport (which is weird), if it is consensual? More government intrusion on our lives.
Apparently, that bathroom is some sort of hookup place (still weird!). Again, hooking up is now against the law?
If he is a switch hitter, so what? I personally do not condone the homosexual lifestyle, but this is America, which is supposed to stand for personal freedom.
Heh heh. Serendipitous timing, PHenry
Longbow, please explain to this person ’strangely lacking in their powers of thought and discrimination’ how it is any different if I go pick up some sleazy broad in a dive and we go to the nearest dark spot for some gratification or I go to some airport restroom and pick up a sleazy guy for the same?
The crime would be having sex in a public bathroom. That did not happen. We are in a dangerous place when we start allowing police to arrest people for what police THINK they are going to do. Its not illegal to think about having sex in a public bathroom, after all.
This is entrapment and blackmail by an officer of the law.
I’m not saying that to defend Craig, nor to claim he wasn’t there for sex. Probably if they had taken the sting further they would have gotten something more damning. But what I read is footsie and hand movements.
I’m just saying its a slippery slope to condone this kind of police activity.
iamsaved, thanks for the info on the “signal”—very funny.
Note to self: tell sons not to tap feet in public bathrooms, nor look into stalls to see if they are empty. Do not pick tp off floor, nor wave to stall person next to you. In other words, don’t go to airport restrooms without a friend as a witness.
That said, I believe Senator Craig could be guilty (and the evidence mounts that he may be as his behavior, if true, is bizarre). Or, he could have been set up and so freaked out he pled guilty. Trying to play devil’s advocate, here, and not condemn him.
He should resign as I don’t see how on earth he can reverse the initial guilty plea as that is what has sealed his fate.
I do think Senators and Congressmen and women should not think they are above the law. Pelosi and Reid should purge these elected officials including their own party’s representatives who break the law or are not held to moral standards. Then this corruption would hopefully end or be minimized.
I don’t want to condemn Sen. Craig as he will face his own hell on earth with his family and friends. His life will never be the same, and for that I do feel sorry for him and his family.
Rusty
I see. Well, in that case I’m the Demcorats in places like Idaho and Colorado will start running open homosexuals for Congress any day now. Seeing as how it is tolerated so much in your party.
It’s not nice to lie to people, Rusty.
The issue is not the GOP failing to defend him, it is the Democrats outing him and then attacking him for being gay. How does that square with your supposed “tolerance”?
PHenry, where’s the slippery slope? Police have been doing this for longer than I’ve been alive, and I was born in the last century…in the first half of the last century. What are you saying is going to happen (that hasn’t happened after many decades)?
Do you really mean to say that you can’t tell the difference between a bar at night with adults, and a public bathroom at an airport? For you, “anything goes” anywhere is the rule? Does not society have the right, and the duty, to set standards of acceptable behavior and punish the unacceptable? Is not what is acceptable and what is not, determined by the society at large, and if you want to go outside that, it’s your own decision and you must be prepared to face the consequences?
We might as well go all the way on this and have Tanya do a “Body Language” segment. I’m more concerned about the Dirty Dough, Immigration, Iraq/Iran and Homeland Security. I’m guessing you guy’s are as well.
Can we start calling him Larry instead of Craig- please?
I don’t feel sorry for this guy at all. By the way, homosexuality isn’t the sole issue. It’s the misrepresentation of one’s self. It goes to trustworthiness and competence. Remember Gov. Jim McGreevey (D-NJ)? The gay acts he engaged in were not the problem but a part of a larger picture of dishonesty, corruption and incompetence. He was married, lied to his wife and children, humiliated them publicly. The people who voted him into office did not expect that the NJ State Homeland Security position would be handed to a young Isreali man who was his lover and couldn’t even pass a background check by the FBI, because he wasn’t a U.S. citizen. Shockingly stupid things like that are what sunk his career, not just the gayness. But being a Democrat, the media couldn’t wait to slap the unspoken “victimhood immunity protection” policy on him. They were helping him get his sob story straight from the beginning. Then he goes on Oprah, writes a book, now he’s an ethics professor.
Anyone think Sen. Craig will be on Oprah sucking up all that sympathy any time soon? No. Republicans expect a higher standard of conduct from their elected officials than do Democrats. When Republicans screw up, other Republicans are the first to call for them to leave their office. Democrats circle the wagons, weather the storm, and go on as before. Which side would you rather support?
Longbow, what behavior here is it that you find unacceptable in the restroom, but ok in a bar? I remind you, the documented acts here are
1. touching feet under the divider
2. Fingers along the bottom of the divider.
If the officer observed a couple of guys engaged in sexual activity, that is one thing. This officer is saying ‘I KNOW what you were intending to do by those actions, and it was going to be something illegal, so you are under arrest.’
Well, Longbow, how about if I’m a cop, and I (wrongly) assume that your statements about the standards of society as you see them, and the punishments that are deserved as you see it, mean you are about to bash some gays in the mouth, so I arrest you for assaulting gays. You didn’t do it, but it seems OBVIOUS to me that you were about to!
Now I take you to the station, and I tell you that unless you cop a guilty plea I will make it public that you are a gay bashing jerk.
See the slope yet? And I’m probably as old as you, and I have seen police overstepping their authority more and more all my life. Sliding, as it were, down the slope. But since is hasn’t bitten US in the ass yet, it is all OK, right?
Let me get to these in reverse order.
They didn’t attack Foley for being gay. They attacked him for sexually harrassing minors. They attacked him for hypocritically being an advocate against child exploitation. If Foley, or any other Republican, comes out of the closet scandal free, most Dems would have his/her back.
And calling me a liar? Really? That’s not nice. If you think the DeLay story was given nearly as much press as a sex scandal du jour, you’re kidding yourself.
That is an aggressively stupid statement. If a gay candidate were to run in those states, he’d get the same support as any one else. Homosexuals can run as Dems. They can’t run as Republicans since that’s electoral suicide. The party won’t tolerate it. And it’s how you end up with closet cases like Foley and Craig.
Sorry if I missed something somewhere explaining my question, but does anyone know WHY this tape was given out to the press?
He pled guilty - case closed. The only other matter is political / moral in basis.
Why did the police feel the need to release this interrogation tape?
Brian72, if an African American does not support affirmative action, do you call him an Uncle Tom?
The bottomline for me is that this only helps Hil. Gawd, did anyone see her on Letterman last night? Wolf had a short preview before the airing last night here. Check out the gawdawful cackle at the 25 second mark. I tuned in last night and it was stomach turning. In the top 10 list of things she would do as president, #4 or so she promised that she would “Turn Gitmo into a Dairy Queen”. God in Heaven help us all if she wins in 08.
But thanks Senator Craig for advancing her football! Preciate it!
No. I would call him a proud man who believes he does not need a special handout, he knows he can succeed on his own merits, as long as the playing field is level. He knows to tilt the field the other direction is itself discrimination, and even though he would be the beneficiary of it, he knows it’s wrong. I don’t call people racially loaded names like that. Liberals do that enough for all of us.
Absolute bullcrap. Most Democrats would attack, attack, attack. Republicans are not allowed to make any mistakes, professional or personal. It’s the same with other sanctified Democrat victimology. You can’t be a Republican and be Black. The “civil rights” partisans will publicly revoke your “blackness” and throw oreo cookies at you when you try to express yourself.
Democrats will not “get the back” of any Republican under any circumstances, and if one Dem strays from that and says something nice about a Republican, they are browbeaten into submission or run out of the party all together (see Lieberman).
Rusty wrote, “William Jefferson isn’t the head of anything. He lost his spot on Ways and Means. Don’t know where the homeland security thing came from. I think you’re confusing him with someone else.”
I was wrong. But he is in Congress. Cold hard cash man remains…
As well as Ted Kennedy.
Warning: link will review 1969 and Kennedy has subsequently served as head of committees and been re-elected over and over.
Democrats have a double standard Rusty. Do you deny it?
Rusty, Barney Frank is the Chairman of the House Banking Committee. He had a boy-brothel being run out of his apartment. Clearly illegal, and immoral. Yet he’s the guy who is going to raise our taxes the minute he can.
Democrats do not care about any of the pesky morality issues, or even character of their leaders. They just want power, and then some more power. Because they feel entitled to run the country their way.
I prefer the party that will instantly boot the offenders, rather than defend them at all costs because they hold power that must be kept.
jrl,
I’m no expert but my guess is after this story broke the tapes were released to the press because they cited the FOIA. but I could be mistaken.
There’s a timely article in the St. Louis paper on a study that was done in the 1970s in St. Louis and it claims Senator Craig is almost a mirror image of one of the case studies.
Personally, I think we’re learning more than we really wanted to know of the public bathroom escapades that go on across the nation. The public restroom should be used for its intended purpose and not for meeting up with same sex sexual pardners. Let’s face it, what are the odds of a guy meeting a gal in the men’s room?
I do deny it. It’s not like the “MSM” ignored Bill Clinton’s sex scandal because he was a Democrat. And it’s not like Studds and Frank weren’t sent through the media grinder when they had their scandals.
My argument is that sex scandals get way more coverage than corruption probes. It’s just Republicans are on a bit of a losing streak in this regard. No one gives a crap about Jefferson or Stevens or Mollohan because it’s boring to most people. McGreevey got way more attention than DeLay because SEX SEX SEX.
Furthermore, gay scandals get considerably more play when it involves the GOP because the GOP is intolerant towards homosexuality and the accused is much more likely to be closeted.
The “oreo incident” never happened. It was invented. The number of cookies went from “raining Oreos” to “two or three” to a single cookie rolling to Steele’s feet. No cookie was ever found.
ajmontana:
That would be my first thought - but I haven’t actually seen an explanation for the release of it.
Just wondering if anyone else had credible knowledge of why it was done?
If it is due to a request through the Freedom of Information Act, that’s understandable.
For the Police to do it on their own, raises questions.
Brian, Frank was found to have had no idea about the brothel. He was cleared.
“…the House Ethics Committee found no evidence that Frank had known of or been involved in the alleged illegal activity.”
And he reported it to House Ethics Committee himself!
Good thing Larry isnt from Green Bay he’d be “Larry the __ Packer”
Ooooooooooooooo….that’s wrong….
lol, just messin wif ya jrl…this story is off the chart on the Ew factor.
BTW, the NYT editorial is amazing in its wrongheadedness. I constantly accuse Republicans of demonizing homosexuality. But there’s a huge difference between being gay and soliciting someone for sex in a bathroom. That is clear to even the most casual observer. Talk about a case of apples and oranges.
Oh and how bout that Vince Young jrlgreenbay? heehee, don’t mind me, just thought I’d pile on some more…
Try arguing that next time to a parent who takes his kid to a public restroom and is subjected to the kind of crap that the police were trying to crack down at the Minneapolis airport on June 11.
The New York Times editors probably think it would be educational for their kids to get a peek at what goes on in men’s restrooms.
All part of growing up liberal these days…
Schweggie - you’re making a lot out of a 1st stringer going against 2nd and 3rd defensive lines… Preseason’s over…now comes the real deal…
Ok - totally off-topic, but I had to respond.
Aren’t many on the left who are pointing fingers at Craig’s activities the same people who proudly advertise those gay-pride parades with 1/2 - 3/4 nude men and women parading around on public streets for half-a-day?
Where’s their outcry about THAT being exposed to youngsters?
What does that even mean? Liberals want to expose children to anonymous public sex? Do you even know any liberals in the flesh or are they all made of straw?
Where Michelle is wrong here - and she’s not often wrong - is in making the criteria “only if they get caught”.
We have a President and Vice President who have a number of DUIs between them. In the Presidents’ case he sought - like Craig - to keep his drunk driving record from the public sphere, but it still came out on the eve of the 2000 election.
In my book driving drunk is a much more serious offence than whatever bathroom toe-tapping that got Craig in trouble with the law. But if the only criteria is now to be “he broke the law”, this would mean that both the President and VP should resign. Unless we’re going to be incredibly hypocritical, that is.
I, of course, don’t think either President Bush or VP Cheney should be forced to resign, just as Sen. Craig should not. But to claim that drunk driving gets a pass, while alleged attempted homosexual behavior doesn’t would display gross misjudgment.
The last I checked, prostitution is still a crime in most juridictions and the defense “Vitter didn’t get caught” seems like a pretty hollow one.
There is something to the NYT story in that the tinge of homosexuality is influencing many folks conclusions.
I believe it’s a wrong lifestyle, but I don’t make a linkage between my disapproval of it and the Craig situation. I think there is some merit to the NYT underlying take that the message is “prostitution is okay, assumed homosexual toe-tapping isn’t”.
Also, most of us know that Vitter would likely be replaced by a Democrat (or liberal Republican, at best) appointed by a Democrat Governor, so the interest in keeping Vitter in office isn’t completely altrustic.
All in all, this would be a non-story except for the militant homosexual whos’ gunning to take out as many GOP congress-people as he possibly can and the insistence of the liberals in the media who share his goal.
This just is certainly not a hysteria I share, nor a witchhunt I have an interest in joining.
Ohhh…you mean like last year’s real deal?
#56 rick,
Sad, Sick and Probably True.
Purplepeep:
Bush & Cheney’s DUIs occurred many years ago, in the 60’s and 70’s, I believe.
So, why should that effect them now?
Drunk driving and other offenses committed WHILE IN OFFICE, however, should be treated seriously. But when it happens to, say, a Kennedy, there is hypocracy.
Craig’s ouster is not so much because he may be gay…but because he committed a crime and pled guilty to it.
Yes, there’s an issue of hypocracy if he touts ‘family values’ and all that.
But does a Kennedy congressman who gets stopped for DUI get to duck into rehab and claim addiction problems get a pass after a few days of coverage? It seems so.
In general, isn’t it hypocritical of ANY elected official to break any law?
On August 31st, 2007 at 12:28 pm, jrlingreenbay said:
No kidding jrl, The local news here in Palm Springs covers these events and it’s disgusting. The so called “white party” and their “pride parade” is just sleazy and gross. And to top it off it happens over Easter. geez.
Those parades / organizers may not be openly promoting anonymous sex to our children - but they aren’t promoting discretion either with their actions and type of dress and behaviour.
Keep in indoors and in your own bedroom people. That’s all we ask. Is that so difficult?
Yup.
The other thing I don’t understand… just after the 2004 election, people told me–quite seriously–that Bushitler’s Christofacist[sic] Gestapo thugs were going to be “rounding up all the gays” during his second term.
Yet here’s an operation targeting gay men (you don’t post a cop in a bathroom to arrest straights), in a blue city, and the reaction is almost overwhelmingly one of glee, and not one of “Hey, our civil rights….”
Even worse for a parent who has to send an opposite sex kid in alone to a public restroom, praying some creeps aren’t in there. Your 8 year old isn’t in a bar getting a lap dance (hopefully), but they may have to use a public restroom. Since men and women doen’t usually share the same restroom, public lewdness in a a public restroom is going to be homosexual in nature by default. The police are there to keep the place safe for your 8 year old (among others) and not because they are conservative homophobes intent on persecuting a minority.
There is another issue here that would affect my decision on whether or not to ask this guy to resign. If he is gay, and intent on keeping it secret, he has put himself in the position of being open to blackmail. (Some think the police officer “blackmailed” him into pleading to a lesser charge.) What issues that he has voted on have been influenced by a desire to keep a secret? (You better vote to give secrets to the Chinese, or I’m gonna tell…”) The character issue (honesty) is critical here, and I think he needs to step down immediately.
To an 8 year old, foot tapping is … just foot tapping. Had the senator actually been having sex in the stall, that is a different story.
Back to the hypocrisy angle, why should an alleged senator be expected to support gay rights? As was pointed out, a conservative African-American would probably believe that African-Americans are strong and don’t need special rights. Would a gay senator not think the same about gays?
Hi JRL -
You’d have to set up an official “x much time passes before it’s okay” for every criminal offense in the book. Including Craigs’ run-in. How do you go about deciding and establishing that criteria so that certain crimes arent given a wink n’ a nod? (If you could compile such a thing!)
And I think you’d have a tough time with those who have lost loved ones to drunk drivers in convincing them to go along with a drunk driving “expires by” date when things are OK or “enough time has passed.
But we’re going off a bit, JRL - the main point is if we really believe a crime is a crime and we should spend all our time - honestly and without prejudice - hunting down offenders in Congress, we’d have our hands full just with Republicnas alone. Speeding tickets just in themselves will out many. Speeding is almost as bad as drunk driving.
If you’re saying that we need to oust anyone in Congress who’s commited a crime, the place to start is in Congress - not bathrooms in the Midwest. Have the police question all GOP members of Congress, investigate them, interrogate them, give them lie detector tests and so on if we really mean to hunt’ em down and crack down on them.
That would be the obvious route to go. But I think what we are seeing is a very sudden, faux “anti-crime” outrage.
On the point about this being homosexual related, I don’t often agree with the NYT oped pages but they are correct in pointing out the disporportinate hysteria between this and being a confessed client of a “madame”(Vitter) - and other GOP problems. Unless you’re applying the “he didn’t get caught” criteria - then we just wouldn’t see eye2eye here, Packer-fellow. That’s where I think Michelle is wrong, though she’s usually on target otherwise.
I’ve avoided dragging in “the Lifeguard” and other tempting liberal targets on this. I think if we’re gonna have an honest Crusade we gotta go after our own house. Also, pointing fingers doesn’t help. (Feels good, though, lol)
But I would expect Craig to get help privately if he needs it and, publicly, to follow the wishes of the people of Idaho.
Hypothetically, yes. But the same would go for citizens - also hypothetically. I don’t know any innocents inside or outside of office. ( But especially inside, hahaha)
I don’t expect people to be perfect, much less political people, lol. We are all fallen people in a fallen world that can magnify the tiniest mistake wildly beyond it’s real signifigance.
And we all have a dark side. That’s not to excuse the mistakes or the dark sides. It’s just accepting life and it’s realities.
Anyway, this is one sad episode that I hope has a quick end either way. Makes ParisHilton-mania and All-Anna Nichole seem enjoyable by comparision.
Larry the Packer; Gawd I can’t stop laughing.
Comes down to it.
Republicans are taking the high road.
Democrats circle the wagons around their wrong-doers…
‘nough said.
NSA domestic surveillance of conversation between Craig and Jefferson:
Craig: Hey man - What’s the haps?
Jefferson: I’m sorry. Who is this?
Craig: We “hooked” up last weekend - you don’t remember me?
Jefferson: Man, you better stay the hell away from me now - you are too hot.
Craig: Thanks - I think you are hot too.
Jefferson: No man - I mean I don’t like you and you are dangerous to talk to.
Craig: oh… well… I just wanted advice on how to handle the situation I’m in.
Jefferson: Change your party affiliation….
Craig: But I’m in Idaho.
Jefferson: Move to New York like Hillary did - or California. Trust me we’ll accept you. We tolerate all crimes including rape, perjury, and murder. Just as long as you vote the way we want you.
Craig: so.. the ends really do justify the means… Look, I have issues but I don’t know if I can sign up for that kind of future. I’ll just step down today. Goodbye.
Y’know, Baklava, speaking of surveillance - it would have been helpful if the cop would have had a discreetly placed camera in his stall that he could have turned on when he thought he heard “sexy tapping”.
If nothing else it could be instructive in saving some geezer with a foot cramp from trouble. The ol’ foot nerves start twitching and he could end up in the slammer!
#59 Rusty:
Good God! Grow up. Get a life. And take a joke, willya?
Rusty
Then why don’t they? Can you name for me all the (openly) gay Democratic politicians from the mid-West and Mountain West? If you can I’ll concede the point. If you can’t, stop saying this stuff.
Lets see the Dems run a gay man for the open Senate seat in Colorado.
There are very few. I saw that there is a lesbian politician in Boise. I am sure there are a few throughout the Mountain West. I don’t understand what your point is though.
It is not a sign of intolerance that there are very few gay politicians. There are plenty of groups that are underepresented in all levels of government. It is a sign of intolerance that one party’s platform wants inequal rights.
Here, go nuts.
Here is a suggestion for politicians or celebrities who want the thrills but not the discussion/public knowledge of their actions:
“Gay-sex offsets”
Rats. Problems with links today. Sorry.
http://author.nationalreview.com/latest/?q=MjE5NQ==
It’s very clear what’s at work here: liberals, being shallow and facile relativists, justify, ignore, or airly dismiss as immaterial and harmless, just about any kind of behavior (esp. homosexual behavior) by…other liberals. What-EV! “Who am I to judge”. etc.
Conservatives still profess belief in such quaint concepts as morals, “character”, integrity”, ethics, “values” and traditional notions of the metes and bounds of human sexuality, as well as holding the Judaeo-christian idea of human beings being flawed by Original Sin, and thus susceptible of violating norms and values, i.e. sinning. So when A conservative gets caught doing something immoral or unethical, or outside traditional bounds of human sexuality, liberals POUNCE on ALL Conservatives!
Thus the liberal sages predict that Craig’s undoing will destroy the republican party, because Craig’s outing “proves” that all conservatives are hypocrites, that conservative ideas about moral, ethics, sex etc. are unrealistic, in that they are crabbed, oppressive, and serve the interest of ruling elites.
And of course, since liberals conveniently forget the “humans as flawed creatures” side of things, and how Christians (and Jews) understand the notion of repentance, forgiveness and redemption, they have no concept of sin, and indeed laugh at such a primitive notion. Sin? You mean my medical addiction? My stealing because I am poor and thus deserve that iPod? Redemption? My ten hours of community service will take care of that!
It’s sooooo easy being a liberal! You don’t ask society or God for forgiveness, and then earn your redemption — you just forgive yourself and “move on”! No wonder so many make such an easy, lazy choice.
You know if Craig was a liberal, the refrain would be “it’s just sex.”
Who had noon-thirty Saturday in the pool?
The two big winners in the Larry Craig sex scandal are:
1) Alberto Gonzales…boy did he disappear fast from the front pages.
2) Hillary Clinton…another fundraising scandal gets buried because sex is more interesting to talk about.
After all, Bill Clinton got into trouble over Monica, Al Capone got caught for tax evasion, and Darryl Strawberry for child support issues.
In all those cases, stuff they got away with, to varying degrees, was far more serious.
Larry Craig did not solicit a child. He solicited an adult. His arrogance at trying to use his power as a Senator to avoid the rap is serious, but the underlying charge, a misdemeanor, is nothing compared to other scandals.
The fact that it follows Mark Foley magnifies it.
To quote the grumpy old man on “Law and Order” played by Stephen Hill a few years back, “Make it go away.”
Respectfully,
eric http://www.blacktygrrrr.wordpress.com
OT-
On August 31st, 2007 at 7:31 pm, blacktygrrrr said:
3) Seahawks-19 Raiders-14
Sorry eric, I just had to add that one..
AJ,
I am not going to publish the link here because it is way off topic, but if you go to my blog tomorrow sometime I will have published a recap of the game.
Although when I keep score, I read it differently…
Raiders…4 championships…
Seahawks…bagel!
And speaking of bagels…Good Shabbos everybody…a peaceful weekend to you and your loved ones.
eric
aka the Tygrrrr Express
Touche, have a great Friday.
Barney Frank?
I think there’s problem, though it probably won’t destroy any party. May likely cost the GOP any hope of control of Congress in the upcoming election cycle.
Craig’s ousting doesn’t prove the GOP is hypocritical, the failure to oust Vitter for his involvement in prostitution does, though. In looking the other way when it comes to Vitter and others the GOP has provided the liberals with a never-ending source of viable ammo re: intolerance, bigotry, hypocracy, yada yada, etc.