Miller Beer steps in it again: The Folsom Street Fair fiasco
When last I wrote about Miller Beer, the company was cluelessly sponsoring illegal alien protests and spinning furiously. Doesn’t look like they learned to stay away from radical politics. Miller went ahead and sponsored the “Folsom Street Fair” in San Francisco…billed as the “world’s largest leather event.”
Here’s the Catholic-denigrating promotional poster for the Miller-backed fair via CNSNews.com, depicting the Last Supper as a gathering of S&M enthusiasts:
Take a closer look. The bread and wine at the supper table are replaced with sex toys. Swell.
In response to complaints from Christian groups, Miller has asked for its logo to be removed. And the Folsom organizers are now disingenuously arguing that they neeeever meant to offend:
There was no intention to be particularly pro-religion or anti-religion with this poster; the image is intended only to be reminiscent of the ‘Last Supper’ painting. We hope that people will enjoy the artistry for what it is – nothing more or less. Many people choose to speculate on deeper meanings.
The NYSun reports that while Miller requested that the poster be changed, it’s still sponsoring the event:
As of yesterday, the Miller Light and Miller Genuine Draft logos, are still on the poster on the fair’s Web site. It also lists the beers as “presenting sponsors” of the event, along with two “hardcore” pornography sites, Nakedsword.com and TitanMen.com.
Take a gander at the NSFW website for the Folsom Street Fair. Here are a few of the runner-up promotional posters…
The question isn’t whether the Folsom organizers should be allowed to promote their bacchanalia however they want. Go right ahead with your bullwhips, dildos, and chains. Knock yourselves out. Really.
The question is one of corporate responsibility. The question is whether a mainstream retailer ought to be lending its name year after year to a fringe group bent on alienating a majority of Americans who happen to be people of faith.
“We are and will continue to be supportive [of Folsom Street Fair and the LGBT community],” said Julian Green, director of media relations of Miller Brewing Company, Wednesday afternoon.
Miller has not requested a refund of any sponsorship money, Green said.
Miller: The beer of open borders and leather-bound Christian-bashers.
Spread the word.
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» Quote of the Day [Darleen Click]
One question is- with all of the parody that is out there to be
done, why did this group have to choose what is sacred to
another (and was, very likely, at some time in their own family’s lives
sacred to them- and hence, all the little boy rage and defiance)?
I didn’t comment on the Monks in Burma because I am doing what all Monks and spiritually inclined people here in town are doing.
If you must ask what that is, well, you will never get it.
The Sacrament of Eucharist and the first Consecration of it at
the Last Supper are devout rituals that allow me to commune
with the Divine. Sagradas. The Sacred Things. We do not
spit on them. If others do, then they have cast their lot to live
like swine.
Actually… The Simpsons and The Sopranos are two of the most popular television shows of all time. If Matt Barber hadn’t gone trolling around FSF’s website [for reasons that are still unclear to me], this crap would not be in your face. You wouldn’t even have known it existed!
Like most of the tiresome, soaked and soggy Homoerotic ribaldry in
San Francisco street festival “culture” this is lauded as some kind of
avant garde place to be. Then why use the worn out, cliché, promotional
ploy to make fun of “The Last Supper”?
This was created by a homosexual ad agency that pitched it to a
homosexual planning committee that thought it was a “fabulous” idea. But guess what? All of those boys have the same issue of *needing* to rage against the sacred
symbols and sacraments of the Catholic faith (sorry, Protestants- we own this.)
And even if it is not blue vein, red faced rage, it is at least the sublimated, calculating
kind that can “pass” as art. Delve into the life of BDSM Leatherdaddies and you’ll
find rage and anger at its center. I have provided counsel and advice to more than a few in my day.
This is not the PTA we’re talking about- even
though they will tell you “no one gets hurt”. Uhhhh-huh. Ya.
Nobody liked my Schmitts joke? Nobody?
In order to get to 70 on the monk thread, you would have to have multiple comments from the same people defending the thugs that killed the monks as just and right because of their religion.
I hope that helped.
Glad to see Michelle hightlight this story now and all these good comments because I posted a link to this website in the Marines not being allowed to film in the streets story. I also posted a link to the image then and stated a possible boycott was coming and got a few negaitve comments after saying that.
You obviously did not read my full post. I do not think I said anywhere, in any way, that I find homosexuality “icky”. As I stated, I have lots of gay friends / family, and I love them all. My overarching point is that I am sick and tired of seeing this kind of crap (and yes, the SF gay community is way more in-your-face — you cannot argue that) every time I turn on the TV or open a magazine! I am not only talking about the garbage at the top of this page. I am talking about Britney’s beaver shots. I am talking about Paris’ sex tapes. You do not have to seek these out. They are pervasive in our culture today. I am bemoaning the loss of civility, decency, mutual respect. Something you obviously do not find important.
Wrong, wrong, WRONG! Check my post on the SF Military thread early this morning. (Posted before this was a separate post.) I saw this on the TV news BEFORE I came to work this morning. It most certainly WAS in-my-face.
Bull…s**t (Warning: NSFW)
Yup, I lived in SF too and was once dragged to this event by an ex-girlfriend.
Within a year, I went from gay liberal to gay conservative and told the girlfriend to hit the bricks.
The entire event is absolutely disgusting and the fact that these corporate sponsors are so willing to whore themselves out to it, says a lot to me as a consumer.
I’d call your attention to chapoutier’s response in #92. He nailed what I was thinking better than I could have.
Trust me, I do ‘get it’. But I still don’t think it’s worth the concern shown here. It’s just an ad, and not even the most risque I’ve seen on TV, Magazines, etc. etc. . . ..
Was it a televised commercial, or part of the news? If it was part of the news, then THEY are the ones putting it ‘in your face’. Not Miller.
#103:
and that says it all…
chapoutier and yashmak — Quick question. Do either of you have small children?
Miller is incredibly stupid and apparently don’t care about offending a large segment of the population. Since we’re a Budweiser household, we can’t even boycott them.
Please. Like others have said if, in fact, it is “just an ad”, let them try it with Mohammed.
I’m sure any promotion Miller hopes to get by their sponsorship in this venue will be greatly outweighed by the world at large finding out about it..Let’s see..I’m shopping and do I choose Miller or Bud?? Well, Bud has that great Support the Troops vid with the Clydesdales and Miller..Oh, yes, they have the S & M Last Supper poster..What a choice!!! I can see the sales dropping this weekend.
Sorry — I knew I should have noted my sarcasm in that note. I agree with you 100%. I meant that when people say “It’s just an ad…” — then we’ve lost.
Who drinks that yellow pisswater anyway?
Miller Lite just lost a recurring customer. They should know that advertising is all about the image you want to create for your customer, this doesn’t fit mine. Life’s all about choices.
Don’t indulge that much since being diagnosed with “Addison’s Disease” in 1989 (doctors orders), but on the rare occasion I ever do I assure you it will no longer be an MGD for me. Besides as ewdancer stated Budweiser real does support the troops. They have shown their appreciation since many of us returned from the Desert Storm/Desert Shield days and continue to support and appreciate the troops now.
To Lan
I did not mean to infer any opinion you may hold as to homosexuality. I was just trying to get some clarification on whether your outrage was against all depictions of sexuality or just homosexual ones in particular, which you answered in post 101. And I have no disagreement that there is an oversexualization of our culture and that
But look for example at this ad for the show Weeds on Showtime ad
This seems to be mocking Christian beliefs as well, and was all over TV and print, far more exposure than the Folsum ad. But MM didn’t get into a lather about this, and I think we know why. The most of the real anger here is not about mocking Christianity. Its about gays mocking Christianity. Its not about our kids being exposed to sex. Its about them being exposed to gay sex. Which, fine, you all think its a sin, as is your right. But at least be honest.
to finish the part I forgot above…
And I have no disagreement that there is an oversexualization of our culture and that we must find a balance between freedom of speech, as it is, and discretion when it comes to things readily available to the public and especially children.
Gee, now you know how I feel about the ad. It’s nothing more than mean spirited and ignorant.
feebiebabe said:
Depends on the cast, its been totally unwatchable for a few years now.
This nation is in deep trouble. First, our children are being exposed to this insanity. Second, while everyone screams “separation of church and state,” these evil-minded selfish idiots are attacking my beliefs while city funds are being used to protect them and their demonically inspired rituals. This world of ours has forgotten that there is a Judgment. And when Jesus spoke of that in the New Testament, He said more than “judge not, least ye be judged.” He also firmly stated, speaking to those who BELIEVE in Him: And you are they who have continued with Me in My temptations. And I dispose to you, as My Father hath disposed to Me, a Kingdom. That you may eat and drink at My table, in My Kingdom: and may sit upon THRONES JUDGING the twelve tribes of Israel” Luke 22:28-30. Therefore, it is clear that the Saints who followed Him as did His disciples will also JUDGE. And sitting with Jesus at His table will be St. Francis of Assisi. The very Saint whom San Francisco is named for. He will be the JUDGE of those who have blasphemed his God before the citizens of his namesake. He will find them guilty and lacking in repentance. He will then hand them over to the Just Judge for sentencing. A sentencing in which Jesus spoke to two humble nuns when they asked during apparitions of Him why He tolerated such evil upon the Earth. The Lord’s response to both were the EXACT same words spoken 100 years apart to two women who sacrificed themselves for Him and never knew each other or of each others writings. The words Jesus spoke to both are simple. The Just Judge said He tolerates evil upon Earth because “I HAVE ETERNITY FOR PUNISHING!”
chapoutier — Perhaps we are not as far apart as thought. If you agree that:
As I have not seen the Weeds ad (and can’t view it right now), I cannot comment on it. However, given that I have not seen it, I think that also goes to show that it is not in-my-face, as this one was when I turned on my TV this morning. But I still have to take exception to:
Again, having many gay friends /family members, and seeing what they have gone through over the years, I would not say this. For some people, it’s a choice — it’s cool, it’s hip, it’s edgy, it’ll piss off mom and dad — whatever. But I know enough gays who struggled mightily, and would never have “chosen” their feelings. So for me, no, it’s mostly sad. But this ad — and the “pornification” (to borrow a Laura Ingraham phrase) of our society — just disgusts me. Our children are not allowed to be children anymore, without something like this popping up and then mom and/or dad get to figure out how to deal with such a delicate subject. My daughter often goes to “Uncle Bob” and “Uncle Jim’s” house, so I’m not talking about “relationships.” I’m talking about smut. I still haven’t seen anyone suggest a good way to explain gay (or straight) S&M to a young child, so let’s face it — there isn’t one.
I am going to go and buy a six pack of Pepsi and drink with my friend Bill W.
GSP
Lan,
To describe the Weeds ad, it shows two characters from two Showtime series nude (though nothing naughty showing) with a snake wrapped around them and with the guy holding an apple. Makes references to “giving into temptation.” Obviously Adam and Eve parody.
And as for this ad, the only reason that 99% of the people were exposed to it was because various media covered it as being offensive. Otherwise, outside of those that frequent the website where it came from or those around San Fran, no one would have seen it.
My “you all think its a sin” was more a reference to my admittedly preconcieved conception of the general feeling of the members of this board, not anyone in general.
I was eight years old, my parents were driving us through the red light district of SF after dark to a relatives house (near the North Beach Area). My Father, (Catholic Italian mind you) got stuck at a light, and my little sister looked over and said “BOOOOOOOBBBBIIIEEESSSS”. And there they were in all their glory, it was a stripper in a window (you know, the ones that go up and down for a few quarters. And it was facing the street. That, I think my parents could have dealt with…it was the dude standing right in front of the window that was the problem-if u get what I mean.
Its not just the homo/hedero sexual situation in this city…it is the lack of public decency…albeit now, I believe that girly in the window is now a guy. But that is just it.. some things are just not okay to display publicly and people should not have to worry about some family car ride or street stroll turning into some sordid sexual theatrics before their children’s very eyes.
Parents should be responsible for teaching their own children about sex at their own times…It shouldn’t be shoved in their face while they are ambling down a street or rolling through a neighborhood. The thing is, in SF, its is every where…you don’t have to look to hard for it. And within the last twenty years it has gotten absolutely out of control. And these events happen to be centered around the gay community. Fact is fact.
Check out the promotional pamphlet from the Site if you think I am joking. Including “The Mayor’s Greetings”….its on the fourth page or so…right after some leather chap butt dudes…and he is WELCOMING “Families” to this fair in his letter….LOL. YES, FAMILIES. And espousing how open minded and culturally aware this city is.
Horse pucky!!!
edit “not any one in specific.”
Well it seems Michelle really popped the top on a Miller this time and it’s been fizzing all afternoon. As a Christian I find the whole SF gig very offensive and the photos blasphemous. Call it art expression or whatever you want to stretch it to for justification, but these people and those who cheer them on or support them in their cause will have to stand before the One who had His body broken and blood shed out of love for them.
Maybe San Fran is a little more extreme, but face it you don’t have to go far anywhere to find sexuality pervading our culture and media. Its just elsewhere it is overwhelmingly straight. The reason you single out SF is because its sexual culture is more homosexual.
On September 27th, 2007 at 5:06 pm, feebiebabe said:
feebiebabe nails it. Two statements I don’t think anyone can argue with.
That is such an unfair statement (but that is ok…i am use to it. This is usually how liberals try to win. They start throwing the “your a racist” or your a “bigot” crap out…thanks for proving my point about a major double standard.
My family is from this city, that is why I am picking on it. It’s because I have seen what has happend to it first hand and watch all my relatives move to the east bay to raise their kids. Where I live on the east bay, you do NOT have the shananigans (gay or straight) that goes on in this city.
You are dead wrong about my comment.
You’re sis and I have that phraise in common, I’m a caregiver to my father and I shout out the same thing to put a smile on his face when they pan the crowd at the ballgames were watching.
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. wait a second…I am also picking on SF because, hellllooo-look at what the Lead Story is About….
(can’t believe I missed that one)..
Blondie needs a break.
This could more accurately be referred to as “Recovering Catholic Syndrome”.
Do you ever wonder where sadomasochism comes from? Here’s a hint: it has a lot to do with this. [hat tip to Dan Savage]
Again – you would not have seen it on the TV news if Matt Barber hadn’t gone out of his way to make sure the news knew of it’s existence! I live in SF – South of Market, no less – and I hadn’t even seen this poster until it made the news a few days ago. Why don’t you go to Concerned Women for America’s website and let them know how you feel about being forced to explain this to your children?
Ha Ha, LOL. tell me about it. my fiancés favorite word too.
Might I suggest Foster’s. But, don’t drink to much. That would be a sin.
I feel sorry for the Monks, but America Burma is not. Get your own weapons, and protect yourself Monks.My tax dollers are at work in to many places.
Huggy-clown:
You do realize you are trying to incite a posting riot….don’t you.
No more trolling for mio!
I would boycott Miller,but I don’t drink that crap.As far as the leather-bound freaks are concerned,what do you expect-it’s San Fransicko.
No, s**t.
That was really classy……..not.
Unfortunatly, Leinenkugels is owned by Miller Brands.
Perhaps they can internally apply some pressure too?
Guess Miller feels they have enough market share selling to gays and people from San Francisco–since they don’t seem to care that most of the rest of us are offended enough to stop using their products.
Huggy Bear: Thanks for replying to my statement about what lay at the core of homosexual men who are into BDSM.
You said that they are more like recovering Catholics than anything else- and then you showed a picture (via link) of a scourged Christ figure covered in blood and crowned with thorns.
And you cited Dan Savage.
Dan Savage is a sexually addicted narccisist.
But I know it is so hip to read about all the nasty things he writes about each week.
When I venture out into public I get to observe all the straight “girls” reading him as they get to cross and uncross their legs, and then prattle on when their gal pals show up to carry on about what the homosexual dilletante (makes up) and “speaks out about”.
Makes them feel real for a moment as they foray out of their “safety” zone for a good “read” about the wild side.
And it also makes them walk stupid in a world that makes less and less sense to them, and why they feel hollow in the middle.
Dan Savage writes from the gutter to an audience that needs to roll about in the sewer to feel “down” or to feel something-anything.
His perversion of Christ’s suffering and death at the hands of his persecutors, into what drives BDSM homosexual men to parade in public, is a complete distortion of reality.
There are millions of us who comprehend the meaning of the passion and death of Christ- and who do not have sexual proclivities and perversions inside of our souls that distort these teachings.
To use the Catholic Church as a reason for one’s psychosis, perverted sexual fantasies, or other proclivities that most people would prefer not impact their lives- is preposterous and symptomatic of the co-dependent culture that underpins most of the La Vida Loca crowd in the gay community; the faction that is living on anti-depressants, drinking itself to death, using meth and other stimulants, engaging in domestic violence and sexually predatory behaviors in public and private.
“You treated me like this when I was a Catholic so this is why I act like I do.”
So by your stellar reasoning- an old family photo album can control the choices a grown homosexual man makes today.
You are joking, right? So, you are saying that sadomasochism did not exist before the Catholic Church? I beg to differ. I suppose sodomy is the result of having Catholics in our midst as well? How easy to point the finger.
Why don’t you ask a sodomite about sodomy? Uh, never mind – there are none left. The very root of the word sodomy comes from Sodom – you know that place that was so sexually depraved that GOD erased it from the map with prejudice.
No, sweetheart, the depravity of man was here long before the Catholic Church and Dan Savage (who may meet Sodomites some day).
Take a long hard look at that picture you linked. HE did that for you. HE suffered, took on your sins, died and rose again. HE will come again. Are you prepared or counting on Dan Savage for your truth?
Couldn’t we just give San Francisco back to who ever we got it from?
Please forgive my course response to the following statement copied from above. The response should sound familiar to the far left nutroots who would defend trash like that poster…
Liars.
And I guess the Miller Beer boycott is still on?
The ad should read,
FoLsoM
Street Fairies
“Please forgive my course response…” should read my coarse response. Apologies.
My goal is not to incite a riot – please accept my apologies if I overstepped the bounds of decency there, even if “The Passion” is considered a masterpiece of SM pornography.
My point is this: Catholicism has a long history of using physical pain as a means of atonement for sins. Not to say this results in BDSM kinks for all or even most Catholics; also not to say this should be considered a terrible thing – not everyone considers kinks to be a “psychosis” – that is entirely a matter of personal opinion. But people have eroticized any and everything, from feet to physical pain and suffering – if something exists, rest assured there is a pervert somewhere getting off from it. And it is well known that peoples’ kinks are derived from past personal experiences; they don’t just arise from out of nowhere.
I hope the nuance doesn’t get lost in translation: I’m not trying to equate Catholicism with BDSM, or say that ALL Catholics have this kink, or that all BDSMers are Catholics. But many with this kink identify as current or former Catholics. Like it or not, it’s a fact.
The question is one of corporate responsibility. The question is whether a mainstream retailer ought to be lending its name year after year to a fringe group bent on alienating a majority of Americans who happen to be people of faith.
This is the question and unfortunately, not many of you tried to deal with it.
Instead, this thread degenerated into a gay bashing circus (I know many of you resisted the temptation so please know I’m not talking about you).
Some of the posts on this thread were borderline hate speech and I ended up deleting a couple of comments. So for the record:
Please do not refer to gays as “perverts.” The massive bulk of psychiatry today rejects homosexuality as a mental disease. Unless and until you get a license to practice and can come up with some original research to the contrary, any reference to gays as “perverted” will be stricken from the blog.
Now *that* is class.
Thank you, Rick.
As a long time (now former)Miller Beer customer who hates Bud Lite, I have decided to exercise my pro choice option and switched to Amstel Light, the best light beer ever! It actually tastes like beer, NOT water!
Hey, Miller! you now have two strikes, a pitchers count, I’m going outside!
Yes, supporting a corporation with your buying power does encourage extremist political agendas.
Think Ben and Jerry’s ice cream, they financed America hater Cindy Sheehan during her hippie fest at Bushes Midland Texas ranch.
NUF SAID. I dont even need to read another comment….end of story.
thx thack.
The problem is gay people will say Catholocism condemns them so what’s good for the goose …
However, keep in mind, this Folsom *Street* Fair won’t snarl traffic, but marines filming a commercial will.
The word of G-d does not condem anyone. Each individual condems themselves if your sins are not washed away through Christ. All anyone has to do is believe G-d died, and rose from the dead, so we might live. If you sin just a little, you are no better than those who sin a lot.
It is those who do not believe in sin, who do not repent of their sins, they condem themselves to believe in a lie.
Hate the sin, love the sinner. The world refuses to believe in morality, and there are limits given to us by that which loves us.
There has to be some gay bashing expected when an ad such as this is provided for all the land to see. It’s offensive and they knew it.
I vote this as Comment of the Day : )
AGREED!
“The Mortal Storm”, 1940, Jimmy Stewart, Margaret Sullivan, Robert Young, Frank Morgan, Maria Ouspenkaya
set in the German Alps
Rusty – “Christian”, not offended even for Christ’s sake, for the sake of his favorite beer…whose pasture does he REALLY think he is in????
This isn’t about being unforgiving.
It isn’t about hating homosexuals.
But Americans have a right to view with a strong eye all who approach the jewel of our American freedoms. And when ANY political arm that rears up in America thinks it is acceptable to take a pathway of OLIGARCHY to GRAB illegitimate power for what they want, rather than AVAILING THEMSELVES of the VOTING SYSTEM to WIN SUPPORT and a plurality for their views…they deserve AT THE LEAST our skepicism, and when they prove themselves willing to avail themselves of NON-DEMOCRATIC REPUBLICAN CONTRARY TO THE VOTING METHODS OF THE CONSTITUTION to usurp power to destroy the social fabric and structure, and destroy the legitimate relationships of the community – for SELFISH GAIN, for ANARCHY…
That wouldn’t matter WHAT the group is fighting for – they don’t have a right to become such a destructive force in America – and in that situation, they deserve the inspection of the nation to decide whether they have a legitimate part in the community, at all.
In our founding days, our Founding Fathers decided they did NOT, and they deliberately RE-AFFIRMED the criminality of this activity – because of it’s destructiveness.
The current political organs of this movement have not gone through legitimate Constitutiona methods to gain right stqanding in the community by proving themselves to be consturctive, productive beneicial members of the community.
And yes, one reason we don’t go wild and go hang them all is because we all are acquainted and related to someone who is a terrific person “otherwise”, who isn’t trying to destroy this nation, or their own personal family, with their own pet vice.
THIS group isn’t what any of the Christians on this thread are addressing.
We are addressing a destructive political organ that is trying to slam others, it wasn’t a “don’t care” attitude in the least – it is a virulent attitude of powerful and bitter resentment.
But they were virulent and bitter before they began to focus their anger and hatred on the Christians or on the American government.
Other than that, they are no different than ANY other group of sinners – and once we were all sinners. Some of the rest of us still are sinners who are lost – for different reasons – some of us are saved and still occassionally sin – but are working on it!
The difference isn’t the sin – it’s the decision whether or not to hate the sin and try to change, to let Jesus in to make those changes – or whether to decide everyone who doesn’t accept it like it is, is worthy of death!
That’s Minneapolis. Milwaukee has a boatload of problems, but that’s not one of them.
Might I suggest that instead of drinking Anheiser-Busch’s bilge water, you investigate your local craft (”micro”) brewers. Every state has people who started making beer because they *like* beer, and there’s a zillion different styles that use real malt and hops, not rice sugar like the mass-produced garbage.
Typical spin and very common liberal practice of smearing Catholicism or Christianity, then saying “Oops! That isn’t what I meant to do.” I don’t accept the apology because there isn’t one. “If I overstepped….” Sounds like to you the jury is still out.
And then there is the flip reference to “The Passion” as a masterpiece of SadoMasochistic pornography- as if this somehow adds to the evidence of a flawed argument that is going nowhere because HuggyBear *doesn’t know what she is talking about*.
Wrong. Physical trials are meant to break down the ego and the will to resist turning one’s self over to the will of the Creator. You don’t know what you are talking about. And to link this to the eroticization of pain is misguided. Physical trials that cause one to experience pain are part and partial of sacrificing in order to move closer to sanctity while being a human being. Which Catholic rite ever flogged those practicing penance? Which Catholic
rite ever tied people in binds that restricted their movement or exposed their genitals to torture? To equate any aspect of Catholicism with the distorted sexual proclivities of leather BDSM is completely wacked.
Wrong again. Talk to people who are in recovery from having been subjected to BDSM ritualistic sex, and got out. It is not exactly a life affirming practice for all concerned. It is passed off as such. And it has it’s own category in PornVille- where it is just passed off as good clean honest fun. But it isn’t. No more than any of the other pornographic filth that is out there, which distorts human relationships to the point of the grotesque.
You clearly insinuated a connection between Catholic history, Catholic traditions and BDSM leather daddies. Now stick to the point you made with your original reference and credit to Dan Savage. Explain it. What you posted was an outrage. And now you want to take it back, while sliding your point- again- through the back door.
They may have. But Leather Daddy BDSM has some very deep levels to it that have nothing to do with the erotic. I have helped too many people get out of that nightmare of *HUMAN SLAVERY*. You didn’t hear me say that “kinks…just arise from nowhere.” What I am saying is that this “fun” and “frolic” is fundamentally dangerous to people- and not everybody survives it, physically, mentally, or spiritually. But in the “anything goes” Weimar Germany atmosphere that is San Francisco, it is made to look harmless and playful- when in fact it is banal, shallow, based on the language of enslavement, servitude, and dehumanization. There is such an outcry about how pornography debases women and such- yet, how this male form of pornography, well, that’s okay because it came out of the traditions of the Catholic Church, which has a long history of using pain as atonement for sin.
NONSENSE!
You best be getting to it then and put up the facts about the “many”. This is an insinuating slur that you need to back up. You have no nuance here. Are you talking about people who grew up in Catholic homes? Are you talking about priests and nuns who broke their vows and left their orders? Are you talking about Ward and June Cleaver types who are doing it?
Back it up, HuggyBear. And that blithering idiot Dan Savage doesn’t count.
wow.. you summed that up nicely..
and worth being posted twice..
Ombre Rose- FWIW, I salute you.
I just want to get this out of the way before I launch into my post here: I am both gay and agnostic. I am also a conservative libertarian.
There.
Now, on to my post.
I find myself unable to be offended at this image, but I can easily see how some might be offended by such a spectacle. My bar for what constitutes “offensive” is set higher than that of most other people. **HOWEVER**, I have to admit a certain level of disgust at the ad in question. When I see other gays parading around like this, or defiling what is considered to be an artistic masterpiece, I feel the same kind of disgust that many Christians supposedly feel when they see Fred Phelps and his merry band of miscreants.
Simply put, these clowns (particularly the “Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence”) do not represent me or anything I for which I stand. I try very hard to be living proof that gays are just like everyone else, but these clowns grab all the attention, and thus are the ones whom most people imagine when someone mentions the word “gay”. The less-flamboyant of us get lumped in with this very visible, very loud, and very small segment of the gay population.
As far as beer goes, I’ll stick with Saint Arnold.
IMHO, I think you’re wrong on this one vic.
You’re right, Rick. The term should be used as an adjective or verb but not as an attack on others.
Related to that: Dr.Robert Spitzer, the psychaitrist who led the the fight to have homosexuality removed from the American Psychiatric Assn list of mental disorders did a 2001 study.
He had assumed homosexuality was a fixed condition, but his study led him to discover the contrary. It was found through therapy the condition can be reversed. His presentation reporting the findings to the APA can be had below in pdf format:
Dr. Robert Spitzer – APA presentation
While it’s good that terms tossed out as insults are discouraged, I’d hope that we don’t swing the other way to the point where people cannot express the concept of something as being wrong due to an abundance of poilitcal correctness or relativism one amuck.
I am not offended, period.
And please don’t think Miller High Life is my favorite beer. I only drink it when it’s a quarter per pint. My favorite beer is Bell’s Two Hearted Ale. It packs a punch (7% abv) and has some killer hops, but it’s surprisingly smooth. Hints of citrus.
If you must boycott Miller, I suggest that. A little pricey at $10 a six pack, but the price tag comes with the satisfaction of not giving Miller your hard earned dollars.
And as for the scare quotes around “Christian,” I admit to my failings, as any Christian should. I am secure enough in my own faith that I don’t feel the need to defend it to others. Jokes about Episcopalians are fine, I admit it’s an easy target. But challenging the faith of another is a decidedly unChristian thing to do.
Rusty said:
I smell bat guano, cRusty. Where did you get this little playground rule from?
Let’s take this statement apart.
“Challenging faith”. Surely you meant deridinganother’s faith. Faith gets challenged time and again.
And in very simple ways. When my Mother died, she challenged my faith. My Mother was a devout and loving Catholic woman who lived as close to her native traditions as possible and tied to that her Catholic devotions.
She challenged my faith when she died because of how much she prayed for the family each day. Her prayer was constant. And it reflected the level of faith she had in God.
I didn’t pray nearly a fourth as much as Mom did. When I realized there was a prayer void, I had a decision to make. And I stepped up. I was challenged by her death: my faith was challenged.
So, as a follower of Christ’s Word, her life challenged my faith.
And she also questioned my faith in God when she was alive. When I was an active alcoholic and drug user, she questioned my faith in God. Her exact words: “If you truly believed in something bigger than your own Pain, would you still be doing what you are doing to yourself?”
“unChristian thing to do”. cRusty, do you realize that there are millions of unbaptized native people on this planet who are not Christian? They are “unChristian” and do many things “unChristian”.
You create an “insider/outsider” false reality with your coinage here. It is unbecoming of a Christian to do so, especially in reference to your own faith.
Question my faith. Challenge my faith. As long as you don’t take my blood, it will only help my faith grow stronger, even in my weakest moments.
Thanks in advance for re-thinking this position.
You’re right. The word “challenge” was misused. If faith were never challenged then everyone would have it in spades.
“Deriding” is a much better word.
Well, we certainly wouldn’t want to inconvenience ourselves for the sake of principle or anything. At the risk of being indelicate, I just can’t help picturing you trying in vain to explain to Jesus’ face that getting beer for 25 cents takes priority over Him.
Or in terms perhaps easier for you to understand, telling your mom or girlfriend that you just **can’t** avoid that bar that has a “fat pig sl**”-labeled picture of her up on the wall, just because they have cheap beer.
GOODNESS I hope you were being satirical. How incomprehensible if not.
Just an FYI…not everyone who attends this event is necessarily homosexual.
The fair also attracts a wide range of heterosexuals as well as bisexuals and transgendered people.
In short, it’s a giant outdoor freak show.
Put the Prophet Mouhammad in the picture and you’d get a totally different reaction…..yes?