BoingBoing vs. conservatives; Update: BoingBoing responds
I used to be a reader and fan of BoingBoing, the left-leaning tech/gadget/sci-fi blog. I’ve linked BoingBoing several times over the years, and found common cause on issues involving Internet censorship and foreign governments. See here , here, and here . BoingBoing’s Xeni Jardin also linked my work on the Mohammed Cartoon controversy. I even listed BoingBoing as a “hangout” on the HotAir blogroll.
No more.
The site’s co-founder, Mark Frauenfelder, doesn’t want conservatives on his site. Yesterday, he mocked a Young America’s Foundation poster of conservative authors/figures (including yours truly) and joked about hanging us:
First, he quoted the promotional blurb about the poster from the YAF site, which begins, “Hang the leaders of the Conservative Movement on the wall in your office, home, or dorm!”
Frauenfelder’s comment: “They had me with the first seven words of their pitch.”
A few commenters took Frauenfelder’s cue:
“Oh boy. Do they sell bundles with dart sets, too?”
“I don’t see the problem with hanging them. They back hanging other people, like, especially, teh blacks, and teh mentally subnormal. And they aren’t too picky about proof, standards, etc. I think their dispatch would reduce the chances, overall, of miscarriages of justice ending in the chair.”
Maybe Frauenfelder thinks he’s being cute with his Coulter-esque jibe. Sure makes for great nutroots pandering material. But it seems like a dumb way to operate a business. Why go out of your way to alienate tech-savvy conservative readers who enjoy keeping up with the latest tech innovations and who care just as passionately as liberals about intellectual property and Internet free speech issues?
Why?
***
Frauenfelder responds via e-mail:
Dear Michelle,
Of course I don’t think anyone should be hanged for their political views. I was making fun of the advertising copy.
(For what it’s worth I would have written the same had the poster shown the members of Congress, both Democrats and Republicans.)
Best regards — Mark
I’m so sure.
By the way, as of this hour, Frauenfelder has not bothered to take on any of the commenters who ran with his hanging joke.
And he still didn’t answer my question.
Here’s another comment in his thread:
Just think: they were all in the same room at once for this photo.
What an opportunity.
I’m sure the commenter would have said the same about Democrats, too.
So sure.
***
In case you want to get one of the YAF posters that has stirred up BoingBoing’s hate, go here.
And speaking of the Danish cartoon controversy, see the latest from Danish newspaper editor Flemming Rose at PJM, who learned yesterday that he was the target of a planned terrorist attack:
”How does it feel?”
It wasn’t the unforgettable line from Bob Dylan’s ‘Like a Rolling Stone.’ That’s not what the reporter had in mind. No, she wanted to know what it feels like to be a potential target of a terrorist attack.
”It hasn’t changed my life, and won’t, because that is exactly what they want. They want to intimidate and threaten,” I told her.
Yesterday one of the four defendants in a terror case in Odense, Denmark’s third largest city, revealed in court that in the summer of 2006 a fellow conspirator had suggested building a remote-controlled car bomb and driving it into my private home in order to kill me.
The reason: the publication of 12 cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed in my newspaper Jyllands-Posten.
”It was a bit of a joke, and we laughed a little, though I know that it wasn’t a laughing matter,” the defendant said.
Joke or no joke, the defendant acknowledged that in fact two men from the cell had a bit earlier detonated a bomb in a soccer field using a cell phone as the remote control. The purpose of this activity was to excercise their ”craft.”
The defendant is a 34-year-old Danish born Muslim who converted to Islam. He has provided the police with a lot of compromising information about the other three members of the cell. The convert told the police that AK, a 22 year old man born in Iraq, travelled to his home country in 2005 to become a suicide terrorist. The young man insists that he went to shoot a documentary.
”He told me that he had shot a goodbye video in the mosque,” the convert explained in court.
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Didn’t they learn anything from the CSU fiasco. Maybe after they see their traffic drop and ads decrease the light bulb will finally click on. But I’m still betting they will find a way to deny the connection
“They back hanging other people, like, especially, teh blacks, and teh mentally subnormal.”
Yeah, Michelle, How many blacks have you hanged? The only hanging I can attribute to conservatives would be this guy!
But if memory serves me well, wasn’t the Klan full of Democrats? Robert Byrd comes to mind for some reason.
No interest going to that site. I will just boing boing over to your site Michelle.
Ideology trumps business and pleasure.
Sounds like a really informed group.
:rolleyes:
Civil dialogue with the left is no longer possible.
At one time I would visit chud.com every day for the latest movie rumors and development news. After Bush was elected the site’s authors started slipping in Bush administration-bashing quips into almost everything. I finally got fed up, fired off an irate email, and told them I’d never visit again. That was back in 2004, I think.
When I visit tech/gadget/sci-fi blogs, I don’t want any sort of political commentary, either way. The occasional joke or jab at Karl Rove/Darth Vader is fine, but there is a limit and it doesn’t take much for me to lose interest in a site.
“They back hanging other people, like, especially, teh blacks, and teh mentally subnormal.”
*****************************
I don’t know about the rest of my fellow conservatives, but I could get behind hanging people that substitute “the” with “teh”!
And “mentally subnormal”?
As far as tech issues are concerned, I have over forty good sites listed in my favorites and many other sites I regularly subscribe to that discuss and support various conservative tech issues. NEVER have I gone to BOING BOING?
I don’t know who first came up with this line, but here goes: “I never miss the BoingBoing site. I never miss it because I never visit it.”
Ahhh..the ever recognizable sound of liberal flip-flopping…
Such an appropriate name for a left-winger’s site
The YAF site does need some tech help.
I see “Welcome ****.******@gmail.com!”, which is nice, except that I’m not ****.******@gmail.com.
Wow. What would we ever do without these compassionate, tolerant, loving liberals?
I’d like to see him PROVE any of this, since he’s so big on evidence.
I had better be careful, because I’m starting to despise liberals, and I’m supposed to love everyone.
I’m black and a republican…do I get to hang myself?
These people are idiots.
Oops, sorry African American. Don’t tell the PC cops, pleeeaase
If you are a techno-geek like me and still need a fix for all things technology, visit TCSDaily.com. Good site. Solid politics, too.
Reminds me of Communist re-education camps. The liberals simply cannot stand that others think differently — or maybe just think, period.
First they threatened to move to Canada, to escape our evil conservatism. Now they pretend that our existence is irrelevant, and find joy in murderous thoughts.
Mental disorder, indeed.
I think that’s code for liberals…
BoingBoing…BONG!
I’d say that ship done tipped over to port all the way……..
You. Can’t. Trust. Liberals. Ever.
Can you feel the superior compassion oozing from their words? They advocate abolishing the death penalty for rapist murderers and child molesters, and here in my state Tennessee, some lawyer is holding up an execution of a death row scumbag because lethal injection is “inhumane”.
Yet, the same people have no problem making comments that sound as if they are the Soviet NKVD partisans, hanging people from light poles because of their politics, and leaving them there for days to send a message to everyone else that they better shape up or else.
Stalinists, that’s the right word for this modern “progressive” movement.
BoingBoing? Sort of reminds me of dumb and dumber.
lol, 30 pcs.
Well, many conservatives do back the death penalty for the mentally challenged. And many have pointed out that minorities get are sentenced to the death penalty in disproportionate numbers. No one really wants to hang anyone, this guy was just making an inarticulate point about capital punishment.
And I’m amazed that anyone can give a website trouble because of the people leaving comments. Some of the people who leave comments here are way beyond the pale. Some of the people who leave comments at my site are way beyond the pale. Stupid comments happen. I can find a stupid and/or offensive comment on every blog on the world wide web.
And the Boing Boing comment is so inoffensive to be laughable. It’s a silly joke. It reminds me of when the press asked Tampa Bay Buccaneers Head Coach John McKay what he thought of his (perpetually bad) team’s execution.
“I’m all for it!” was his reply.
No one got on his case for wanting to murder the quarterback.
Bob68, forgive my ignorance regarding matters tech (I’m one of those lawyers you’d like to see killed), but there are actually conservative and liberal “tech issues”? Really? I always thought there were just those my IT guys tell me will take 5 minutes to fix, but actually take 5 hours and those they tell me will take a few hours, but actually take a few days.
, who commit violent crimes against innocent people and children. You forgot to finish that.
People don’t have to like conservatives, but like DarthCirrocu, I find it irritating when politics come up in totally irrelevant web sites, blogs, and message boards. 99.99% of the time, it’s leftists/liberals who pull those sorts of stunts.
If any IT guy cant fix any problem with a computer in less than an hour he’s in the wrong biz.
Ill admit, the boingboing comments are a bit tasteless, but this seems like nothing to get worked up over. If you want good hate speech, the dailyKOS has plenty of stuff thats way worse. Just tell him that lynching jokes are not funny and move on, he’ll get the point.
I see Rusty’s back and using his usual circular logic to defend the indefensible.
People, please don’t feed the troll.
I think it was on Instapunk.com where I saw it written that “‘Two wrongs don’t make a right’ has become such a worn phrase precisely because there are a lot of people who seem to believe just the opposite.”
The statement above is a classic example of that proposition.
Consider that one of the “benefits” of projection and the Tu Quoque logical fallacy is that you can take something “wrong” about yourself - for example, the desire to have people killed because you don’t like them - and attribute the same thing to those very people. Presto! Two wrongs make a “right,” meaning it’s OK to feel that way.
Note also the double layering in that statement: because “[conservatives] aren’t too picky about proof, standards, etc.” then it’s OK for me to be sloppy about the same thing. Voila! Two wrongs make another “right,” thus making reliance on hatred, stereotypical bigotry and circularly reasoned tautologies acceptable in lieu of logic, evidence and reasoned discourse.
This is why it’s too often pointless to engage leftists in attempts at debate. Far from eschewing psychological avoidance mechanisms and logical fallacies in presenting their “arguments,” they rely on them.
I never understood the subtitution of ‘anywho’ for ‘anyhow’.
Regulus had me at “Tu Quoque logical fallacy”. I can’t figure out if I agree with anything in Regulus’ comment, but he used 4 or 5 words and phrases that I’m going to try to work into conversations at some point today.
OK, I am going to plead ignorance here…but would any of you kind souls please tell me the reasoning behind spelling “the” as “teh”.
Thanks.
You need to tell me why my logic is circular. You can’t just say it is and, voila, your word becomes truth. I think the McKay anecdote is a pretty solid example of why this joke is so inoffensive. Better than just calling me names at least.
By the way, indefensible things: genocide, rape, pedophilia, crackdowns on Burmese monks, infanticide, etc.
Defensible things: Kind of lame jokes made on the Internet.
Feebie,
The use “teh” here is actually wrong. It’s usually used as a more intense version of “the.” Imagine it as a form of “very.” Sometimes it’s used to denote irony.
In so many words, it’s incredibly stupid and makes this guy’s point/joke that much more obnoxious.
Thanks, Rusty.
Rusty, what’s the story behind using “pwned” for “owned”?
BTW, your argument was in no way circular. Subject to a reasoned and civil response of course, but not circular. Typical comment from “thinks he’s smart, but really isn’t internet guy”.
Feebie,
I usually get “teh” when I’m demonstrating that I can’t type. I usually try to correct it though.
With regards to the subject at hand, I used to spend a fair amount of time at the International Gymnast website and their forums - until someone started making false accusations against a friend of mine there, and the forums started being taken over by a bunch of liberals where the nicest things they were calling conservatives was “nazi”. Now I check in once a month or so just to see if I have been banned for being a conservative.
Do these people want to drive away potential customers? Don’t they want customer loyalty? :::rolls eyes:::
LOL, good one.
That’s the same way “owned” became “pwned”. Typo.
I used to visit boingboing up until about a year ago. It just got to be too much for me. I’m all about protecting free speech on the net and they have tons of other interesting topics, but I’m sick of running into BDS everywhere I turn.
Besides, when I want to read buckets of BDS hilarity, I just go into ANY comments thread on fark.
Any significance to the usage though Rusty?
Will this classify as ‘hate speech’ when Hillary is president? Or will the picture have to be of liberals?
I’d be pleased to stand among any group that includes Ann and Michelle.
You’re not “helping” are you?
Nope, don’t buy it. The subject was “hanging”, and he went straight to an argument that conservatives want to lynch blacks. This was an inarticulate comment, but it wasn’t about the death penalty.
Rusty said;
Isn’t that exactly what liberals do all the time?
Pot - kettle?
Back on topic for a moment . . .
Rusty, I will continue to call what you are doing “defending the indefensible”. The statement made by Frauenfelder was nothing less than hate speech directed at conservatives, his protestations notwithstanding. His site is, as Michelle points out, left-leaning so it is doubtful that his claims he would make the same joke involving democrats, are very likely.
I’m amazed by you Rusty. If this had been the same situation with a poster of nothing but liberal black people and the exact same statement had been made by a conservative, you would be screaming bloody murder about racial prejudice running rampant in this country. And don’t say that you wouldn’t. If you do, then you weren’t being honest in your postings in the Jena 6 threads.
BTW, I do retract my comment about “circular logic”. It was incorrect and I apologize for that. However, I do not apologize for calling you a troll.
@Dakine,
No particular significance to ‘pwned’, if that’s what you’re asking. As Rusty points out, it’s a slip for ‘owned’, as ‘teh’ is to ‘the’. Often on online communities (multiplayer online games, for example), both ‘teh’ and ‘pwned’ are used widely, often where the speaker is assumed to be (or posing as) as a tween or teen. As another poster noted earlier, ‘teh’ can connote a bit of extra emphasis, and the same goes for ‘pwned’ … tends to mean “I OWNED YOU!” as in, “I completely and utterly defeated you in that argument / online battle / or just generally in how great I am.”
In other words, it tends to be slightly offensive, in that it’s boastful, but it’s often just good-natured ribbing as well.
And, yes, I’m way too old to spend as much time as I do playing online video games … but once my wife and kids are in bed, there are still several hours available every single night … it’s so hard to resist!
It’s Ok as long as the three of you aren’t in mom’s basement…
Opps, “kids”, more than three…
The President of the United States of America who freed enslaved blacks in southern states during the American Civil War was a Republicsn.
The webmaster is in woeful need of a history lesson.
Gvmtdrone, the situation would obviously be different if it were a group of black people. Wouldn’t matter if they were conservative or liberal.
Jokes, every joke ever, depends on the context of a situation. If America had a history of lynching conservative pundits, I would have been infuriated at the Boing Boing joke.
I mean, do you get offended every time you hear “Take my wife…please” because it endorses wife-swapping and/or adultery? Or do you think it’s just a silly joke? The context of the comment (here being an unexpected addition to a popular phrase) makes the joke (arguably) funny.
Or how about “Women, can’t live with them and murder is illegal.” Is that offensive because it implies people want to murder women? Or is it funny because the second part of the phrase goes counter to the listener’s expectations? If you have a sense of humor, the latter.
I mean, “Do they sell bundles with dart sets too” is being used here as an example of a comment going too far. As if using a conservative poster as a dart set is an implicit threat to impale Robert Novak with a projectile spear.
Come on people! Have a laugh! Even at your own expense! If you want to make a funny joke about me being a troll, go right ahead. If we lose our sense of humor we have nothing left.
This is just sad, if it was a slander against the left you can guarantee that there would be outrage and probably a boycott. This comment from one of their brilliant readers tops them all however.
How pathetic.
Why?
Hate speech is hate speech. Period.
Rusty, you can’t right past wrongs by doing wrong to a group of people now.
Wrong is wrong, no matter the time or place.
Your double standards, and rationalizing of them are mind blowing to say the least.
Oh. My. God.
First off, no one did anything to anyone. It was a joke.
Hate speech is hate speech? What? You don’t see the contextual difference there? Humor doesn’t work on some kind of categorical imperative. History and stereotypes make every joke and comment different. So, yeah, “hanging” a bunch of conservative pundits is merely a double-entendre on the word “hang.” A joke about hanging black people brings to mind the centuries of terrorism black people faced if they so much as looked at a white woman.
You can call me cheap, but you can’t do the same to a group of Jewish people. You can call me lazy, but you can’t do the same to a group of Hispanics. And on and on.
These double-standards aren’t mine. They’re society’s. And if you really think the line “they had me at the first seven words!” is hate speech, then you are probably the least funny person on the planet. If the humor is a little dark for you, fine. But “hate speech?”
Thanks ifish. I’m going to have to use “pwned” next time I text my 16 year old.
bear, good info. For what it’s worth, I would point out, however, that the the parties were much different at that time and the names aren’t that relevant in terms of comparing the respective political ideologies of politicians over time.
governmentdrone, sometimes it’s okay to concede a point.
I don’t disagree with the overall current of the discussion here, however, I think that it has taken a turn away from (what I consider to be) the real point.
Rusty, the point, as I see it, is not that there is a threat of imminent violence to the conservatives pictured. What you recently said is correct as far as “Take my wife… please,” being a joke and not serious. I think most of realize that this is a joke and Frauenfelder was not actually put a hit out Michelle and the rest of the group. My problem with this is that a website that has nothing to do with politics is using their site as a soapbox from which they are making such (tasteless) jokes about a group of conservatives.
@JW2,
Agreed. I think that the issue doesn’t bear censure so much as it simply raises the question that Michelle started out with:
Why would you take an action, however tongue-in-cheek, that is very likely to alienate some large portion of the 51% of America that seem to be non-liberal (roughly the folks that put W in office twice now)? If you’re not a political site, and you live largely on ad dollars, why in the world would you do that? The liberals have been a minority lately, all MSM volume to the contrary. So, sure, it’s a joke, but it’s just bad business, as MM pointed out at the top.
Ever notice that the same group of people who tell us to be tolerant and “stop the hate” are often the same ones who suggest violence against anyone who disagrees with them? Of course, when challenged they say it was just for laughs.
.
I stopped reading Rusty’s comments when he said it was acceptable to bash people because of their skin color.
But I don’t hold his comments against Michelle.
I don’t say that. I say the opposite. Huh?
I’m unaware of this site myself. However, since you did have a cordial relaltionship with them and this was the only “issue” you had, note your objection but let it go. You can expect the commentary it has received but don’t yet blame the webmaster. If they continue with this behavior then you reevaluate.