Larry E. Craig, will you please go NOW? Update: Hell no, he won’t go; Update: The WaPo wide-stance video; Update: GOP Sen. Jim DeMint: “You don’t want to know what I really feel.”
Update: A WaPo reporter takes his video camera into the Minneapolis bathroom. Ew.
Here’s NYT coverage of GOP leaders’ displeasure with Senator Wide Stance:
Senator John Ensign of Nevada, chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, demanded that Mr. Craig keep his initial pledge and leave the Senate.
“The type of behavior we are talking about here is not exactly something that I think a senator should be engaged in,” said Mr. Ensign, who again raised the possibility of public ethics committee hearings into whether Mr. Craig brought discredit on the Senate, which could be grounds for action against him.
The leaders of the ethics panel said today that a complaint filed against Mr. Craig by the Republican leadership in August, when the news of his guilty plea became public, remained an open case, given his decision to remain in office.
Other Republicans stopped short of calling on Mr. Craig to give up his seat, but they were clearly dismayed that he would stay in office, citing the distraction his presence could provide as well as the potential harm to the party and the Senate.
“I can’t think of anything good about it,” said Senator Saxby Chambliss, Republican of Georgia.
“You don’t want to know what I really feel,” said Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina.
Update: He refuses to go. Dan Riehl’s got the perfect toilet paper.
Here’s the crapweasel’s statement on his website.
A Minnesota judge refuses to withdraw crapweasel GOP Sen. Larry Craig’s bathroom sex sting guilty plea.
A Minnesota judge on Thursday rejected Idaho Sen. Larry Craig’s bid to withdraw his guilty plea in an airport sex sting, a major setback in Craig’s effort to clear his name and hang on to his Senate seat.
“Because the defendant’s plea was accurate, voluntary and intelligent, and because the conviction is supported by the evidence … the defendant’s motion to withdraw his guilty plea is denied,” Hennepin County Judge Charles Porter wrote.
“Intelligent?” Bwahaha.
With apologies to Dr. Seuss and professional Photoshoppers everywhere, I offer my on-the-fly advice (I know you’ll send me better ones!):
***
Seussian verse from commenter Max:
i do not like when you feel my leg,
i do not like it Larry Craig.
i do not like it in a stall,
i do not like it much at all.
i do not like your double-wide stance,
i do not like the way you glance.
i do not like your guilty plea
i do not like it; i’m tryna pee!
i do not like it when you feel my leg,
I do not like it Larry Craig!
And from Hot Air commenter Darksean:
Don’t let the stall door hit you on the way out.
Darksean on October 4, 2007 at 3:13 PM
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The judge clearly has widestancephobia.
Buh-bye Larry.
C-ya, Lar.
Hey thats pretty good handwriting with a mouse. wtg!
Is there really any other choice for him to make now? I refuse to start feeling sorry for him.
Games on in 3,2,1…enjoy the day everyone!!!!!!
If I were the judge, I’d just play an old Alan Parsons track as my legal epitaph for
SenatorMr. Craig’s soon-to-be-former political career:Well, I know you have good reasons;
And there’s things you’ve got to do.
But the Boatman won’t be waiting,
And he’s leaving here with you.
And you can’t take it with you -
No matter what you do.
No, you can’t take it with you;
Not the place you’re going to!
i do not like when you feel my leg,
i do not like it Larry Craig.
i do not like it in a stall,
i do not like it much at all.
i do not like your double-wide stance,
i do not like the way you glance.
i do not like your guilty plea
i do not like it; i’m tryna pee!
i do not like it when you feel my leg,
I do not like it Larry Craig!
You guys sure that he’ll leave? Ahh, NM. As a Democrat he would stay, but Republican? No, it will be as it should. Bye Bye Mr. Craig.
The epitome of MM readers — smart, funny, truthful. We rock. If I may say so.
obviously craig is confusing republicans w/dems as he thinks we’ll all just “hug” and forget everything. Ick. Hit the road jack. This side doesn’t operate that way.
Isn’t Sen. Craig also an advocate of illegal immigration?
On October 4th, 2007 at 3:05 pm, max said:
Very good!!! Think we can find another picture of Larry though? That one looks too much like Dick Cheney…
How bout this quote from Oh, The Places You’ll Go:
I ask the following questions not to be a troll or start a flame war, but rather to trigger a little discussion (echo chambers get a bit boring after a while, no?) on the bigger issue of the sexual behavior/morality, etc. of politicians as it relates to qualifications to hold office. By way of full disclosure, I am not a member of either party and consider myself to be a right of center moderate (“old school”, secular conservative if you will). Here are the questions (and they are really only for those of you who do NOT support Senator Craig and wish him to go away):
1. As a hypothetical, if Craig had been caught in some sort of sexual act with a woman (not his wife) in that same bathroom stall, would your position (no pun intended) be the same.
2. Did you support Senator Vitter during his recent “problem”, or did you call for his resignation?
Obviously, what I’m trying to determine is whether Craig’s alleged homosexuality is the real issue for those of you who want him to resign, or is it the sexual “misconduct” in general, regardless of orientation?
You put your left hand in
He pulls his badge-hand out
You pull your leg back in
Then you start to scream and shout
You spend an hour in the pokey
then you turn your story ’round…
That’s what it’s all about
I am Larry
Larry I am
I did not do it in a restroom
I did not do it, high on mushrooms
I did not do it with my feet
I did not tap tap, by the toilet seat
I did not rub my hand to sign,
You show me yours, I’ll show you mine
I do not like to find men when I leak
I am a manly man and not a freak
I do not like looking at another man’s ham
Cause I’m Larry, Straight Larry, Straight Larry I am
Yes – the issue, for me anyway, is not his sexuality, it is the lack of decorum, improper behavior in public, and his lack of admission to committing this crime.
Senator Vitter’s “problem”, if I remember correctly, occurred several years ago and he came forward when it was made public and admitted to his indiscretion. It was more of a private matter and he was not prosecuted for anything.
While both actions are wrong – one person, whose ‘problem’ was conducted in private, stood up and took responsibility for his actions – the other, whose actions took place in a public restroom, continues to deny any wrong-doing and was arrested for his actions.
Hope that makes sense.
lol
ok, now this one with BIG apologies to EAP…
While I nodded, nearly crapping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my toilet door.
`’Tis some visitor,’ I muttered, `tapping at my chamber door -
Only this, and nothing more.’
There are worse things going on in Washington. Let’s keep a sense of proportion.
Max….
Crackin’ me up….
thanks jrlingreenbay…
On October 4th, 2007 at 3:44 pm, jrlingreenbay said:
Well said jrl!
Larry Craig refuses to resign. What a weasel!
Drudge has a link up…Craig ain’t going peacefully apparently.
Latest news is that ol’ Lar’s going to stay in the Senate. He thinks he can still “be effective.”
Among the other low-lifes who have made a career out of “serving” us, he fits right in. If we ever had a decent Congress, he’d be wide-stancing it right back to Idaho.
He da ho, all right.
Craig has no shame. What makes anyone think he will go on his own accord?
Here’s my cyber protest chant:
WeaselCrap! WeaselCrap! MudFlapBoy!
Make the move! Make the move!
Bring us joy!
We need to help you out on your Photoshopping, but very nice work, nonetheless!
I’ll be laughing my tail off for a week! Terrific P-shopping and wonderful verse.
He’s got to goooo!
This thread shows the main difference between Democrats and Republicans.
Democrats would be cheering Craig for ’standing his ground’. ( Barney Frank, Gerry Studds, William Jefferson, et al )
Republicans are calling for the head of one of their own.
This was not simply engaging in an inappropriate act with an inappropriate partner. The man was openly and aggressively soliciting a sexual tryst with a stranger not his wife. I don’t care if the man is “straight”, gay, bi, or simply “bi-curious,” his behavior, and subsequent prevarications, are not only deeply wrong, they’re frickin’ embarassing!
To be honest, it amazes me that there are people that can defend the actions of the like of Barney Frank without gagging. Few of Craig’s fellow party members, however, have such control over our gag reflex.
When you gotta go, you gotta go!
Wrong is wrong, regardless. I believe it’s called accountability?
When the flashing of his Senate creds and use of the “Do you know who I am?” tactic (perfected by various members of the Kennedy clan) didn’t work, he tried to duck out with a quiet guilty plea. When it blew up in his face anyway, he “appeared” to be ready to do the stand-up thing and go away. He even blew that with his “I intend to resign” ploy. Then he tries to disparage the poor cop who had a most unenviable assignment (they don’t pay that guy enough). As a former trial judge and appellate judge, I have seen the “I didn’t do it, but just plead guilty to ‘make it go away’ defense.” I never bought it; neither did an obviously sensible judge in Minnesota. I just looked back at the defendant or defense counsel and thought, “How stupid do you think I am?” Craig has humiliated his family, embarrassed his colleagues, disgraced himself, dishonored his constituents and yet shame seems to evade him. For disorderly conduct, brazen hypocrisy and unabashed chutzpa, he needs to go.
Now I can go back to reading all of the clever Dr. Seuss-like ditties and peeing my pants.
#13 dakine
Yes. His behavior is despicable.
I did not/do not support him, and I also did not/do not support Ted “Chappaquidik” (sp?) Kennedy, William “Freezer” Jefferson, John “VietNam Vet” Kerry, or any other double-life, two-faced liars who are in a position to say what happens in my life!
William Jefferson got his committee chairmanship taken away which is no small punishment. And neither Frank nor Studds committed a crime.
And, on top of that, “After an investigation, the [bipartian, split down the middle] House Ethics Committee found no evidence that Frank had known of or been involved in the alleged illegal activity.”
But you’re right, sex scandals don’t bother Dems as much as the GOP. Because Dems don’t run on family values platforms and therefore aren’t seen as hypocrites when their “moral failings” become public.
I wish both parties would work harder to rid themselves of the “corrupt-o-crats” like Jefferson and Stevens. But sex scandals don’t really bother me.
The MoveOn.org version of your remarks…
Oh, shoot. Yeah, I’ll give you Ted Kennedy. I can’t believe he got away with that (both legally and politically).
I have been ticked off over this since 1 Oct 07. He needs to be tar, feathered, and run out of the state on a rail. I will be looking for him if/when he returns to Boise. It is bad enough he is an enabler of the illegal invader now he is a true lying crapweasel. As we used to say on active duty, “don’t piss down my back and tell me it is raining. Leave now you lying sack of @#$&*!*&# (got to keep it clean for the kids at home). I am sick of calling and writing his office, but I guess it is time to harass his staff a little more.
Rusty, I am so proud of you!!!!
They may not run on “family values” but how about “civic values” – such as breaking the law? Craig broke the law and admitted it. And his “moral failings” didn’t just become public, it was in a public place frequented by (among others) children.
Excuse me but your hypothetical is creepy. So the Senator is in a lady’s room? Or he approaches a woman in the men’s room? Would you like to re-consider your question? Your alternatives are creepier than what actually happened. Any kind of sex in a public bathroom is creepy.
I wondered what the officer’s record showed and whether he targeted high profile people? The tape did sound to me like Craig was being bullied. Plus, the restroom where the incident took place is in a very heavily trafficed area.
I’ve not been able to find anything on a rumor I’ve heard that there is an attorney that is representing five other men caught either before or after Craig’s arrest. If the story is indeed true, his self-respect should compel him to leave. If not, no one is ever going to believe him anyway. Whatever effectiveness he enjoyed is done.
No, I don’t care for his politics, no truer RINO was ever elected – too soft on immigration and a number of other issues. But, if I were a guy traveling through any airport these days – especially, after this incident – I think I’d hold it until you’ve boarded the aircraft.
Certainly.
Craig is worse than Vitter since Vitter’s infidelity was in private. Craig’s infidelity was compounded by being a public menace.
I don’t think either should have to resign, that’s what elections are for. However, Craig would resign if he cared about the good of the party, but he seems indifferent to what he is putting his colleagues and his wife and family through.
Forget “family values”. Is there ANY sin against ANY set of standards which can get a Democrat canned? Short of being convicted of a serious crime, it appears not.
And in some cases (Marion Barry) even a criminal record is no bar.
Both. Homosexuality is a problem in itself. Craigs specific instance was an exceptionally bad example of it.
There are nothing but rumours out there regarding Vitter, and those rumours are not as serious as the facts about Craig.
And of course, Vitter is a good Senator, while Craig is forgettable.
The Vitter situation involves unproven allegations from an untrustworthy accuser who took money from Hustler Magazine to tell her story. Vitter denies it happened and even if it did, it was a private indiscretion that took place many, many years ago. BIG difference.
I’m shocked, SHOCKED to find a politician lying and going back on their word!
Thanks for the honest answers…nice to see some good, solid civil discourse.
How has it been a problem for you? I’ve never been particularly affected by who my friends or co-workers choose as mates. I’ve worked with some high caliber and some forgettable people, but haven’t found it correlated to their sexual orientation.
I knew he wouldn’t quit. Selfish jerk.
Either he lied to his wife when he promised to be faithful, or he lied to the court when he pled guilty. So I totally expected him to lie to his constituents and to Congress.
“If it benefits ME, I’ll go back on my word.”
Oh Brother. just go already, please.
dedalus -
Those who get involved in homosexuality can choose sexual partners – but not mates.
I see your point if you are using the word in its zoological sense. I was using it in the sense that some use “soul mate” (e.g., my wife have mated for life, though we don’t intend to produce children for the rest of our lives). If I were Brit or Aussie I might have used the term for simple friendship.
“Vitter admitted he made calls to an alleged prostitution operation in Washington, offered an apology “to all those I have let down” and vowed to resume his work in the Senate.
Vitter, 46, acknowledged in a statement last Monday that his number was included in the telephone records of an escort service run by Deborah Jeane Palfrey, a woman dubbed by the news media as the “D.C. Madam.”
Source – CNN:
Scandal-linked senator breaks a week of silence
So it’s not a matter of “if”, Phil. I’m not sure the criteria should be changed to “as long as he didn’t get caught commiting the crime” it’s okay.
Lowering the bar for Vitter in order to go after Craig rightfully sets up the GOP to accusations of hypocritical special treatment – or worse. And the liberal-controlled media will certainly take part in the Democrat attack.
I do agree that we can be near certain that Vitter had a sexual encounter with a prostitute. But, I think a standard that chases someone from the party due to infidelity will make it too easy for the Larry Flint’s of the world to dig up dirt and knock off Republican leaders. Finding infidelity in Rudy’s or Fred’s pasts might not be too hard.
“Those who get involved in homosexuality can choose sexual partners – but not mates.”
Yeah, I strongly lean toward “words mean something” and am against any relativistic PC-ing of the language.
If you mean, in your case for example, regarding those you’re acquanted with whom are into the homosexual lifestyle, that would be appropo.
I think most everyone has some kind of skeleton, tiny or large, hanging in their closet that could be dragged out and publicly scorned. I’m not sure that politicians really have a whole lot of stomach for searching out sin among their ranks. But if they start it, they should do a good job of it and not make excuses for Vitter or others.
OK. If you go to a dictionary you’ll find that the noun “mate” has multiple meanings. In the Random House 2nd Edition Unabridged Dictionary the first definition is “spouse”–which is the way I was using the term.
British and American English are not identical, for Brits & Aussies “mate” does not have homosexual connotations and is used like “buddy” or “chum”.
Not all closets are the same, and Larry Craig’s closet might be a little bit kinkier than others.
I’d like to see a Republican defeat Hill & Bill about a year from now. My point is that if the Republicans implement a chastity test, then they’ll have to defend it unilaterally since the Dems won’t subject themselves to it.
You sound confused, dedalus. Both you and I were talking about homosexuality, which has a very specific meaning. (And it ain’t “drinking a yard o’ ale at the corner pub.”)
Based on your first reply we are parsing the difference between “partner” and “mate”, which isn’t a very interesting conversation unless one is a linguist.
My point is that homosexuals do have life-long partnerships that parallel heterosexual partnerships in most ways, save reproduction. Though, not all heterosexual couples are fertile.
Riiight, he lied about resigning..
So now we should believe he won’t run for re-election?
What’s the “real” reason for Larry staying on, I wonder.
More like a bad imitation, I’d say. Also, homosexual males are much more known for having a great many sexual partners, “cruising”, Folsom Sex “fairs”, etc. than for anything life-long, dedalus. You’ve cited the exception that proves the rule.
That’s irrelevant to anything. But it does highlight the fact homosexulaity doesn’t produce children. Re: an infertile couple, it again displays an exception that proves the rule. Those into homosexual sex never need to take “the pill”.
Some young heterosexual men are that way too, and others would be too if women weren’t more selective.
It knocks down the contention that all marriage is for the purpose of baring children.
If that is so – why do you suppose women are “more selective” than homosexual men?
No, it just means that some people are infertile. But, to be precise, the purpose of sex itself is for procreation, though not all sexual acts result in pregnancy. Obviously, that result never occurs from homosexual sex.
The cost of sex is potentially higher for a woman.
Right and my marriage is no more negatively affected by infertile hetero couples marrying than by a gay couple marrying.
Senator Craig has a comment form on his website. Simple search gets you straight there.
I e-mailed a comment to him. I didn’t use any foul language.
“If that is so – why do you suppose women are “more selective” than homosexual men?”
With the AIDS epidemic among homosexual men you’d think they would be more worried than anyone about being “more selective”. Death is a pretty high cost to pay for sex.
I don’t know anyone here who was arguing otherwise. As I said, whatever your point there, it is meaningless to anything – or at least to anything here.
Yeah, apart from just being civil it’s wise for folks to not fly off the handle if they need to vent.
Many people don’t know such forms are not anonymous, if someone goes over the top nutso (not that you would, Rose,lol) and sounds borderline dangerous they can be tracked.
Could be evidence of how much they desire it, if you consider the risk/reward ratio.
If your point is “live and let live” then I agree. Let them marry and let’s get on with cutting the size of gov’t and fighting the Islamic terrorists.
I don’t care what people do if they keep it in the bedroom and don’t make a big deal outta it.
Have no idea how you got from homosexuality to big government and terrorism. But there’s no reason why we cannot fight terrorists, cut useless programs and protect marriage at the same time.
http://deathby1000papercuts.blogspot.com/search?q=Craig
The Craivin
Many of you know that Craig has been battling rumors pertaining to his sexual preference for years. It must be a sad pathetic life to live “down low” in the closet like he seems to be.
I hope he didn’t bring any special “gifts” home to his wife.
Due to his hypocrisy, I don’t feel sorry for him, but I sympathize for his family.
Because you needlessly alienate a percentage of the population for no tangible benefit to the rest of us.
#7 Maxx’s comment:
Reminds me of the Maria Muldaur song back when I was in college in the early 70s-”Don’t You Feel My Leg.”
Hilarious!
This is an issue for the People of Idaho to decide.
Beyond the fact that he is a continuing embarrassment to the GOP and will at some point be a talking point against things that I believe in and hold near and dear, I could care less about Craig. He is a liar, a pervert (I could care less who and how he f**** in private, but in public is a heavy line to cross in my mind) and has no personal integrity (as shown by his reneging on his promise to resign). He is now proving that his ego and personal agenda are more important to him that the future of this nation (all the above proving that he is a typical Senator). The GOP is already in enough trouble without jerks like him. His refusal to
abdicateresign only strengthens and emboldens the Dems. Probably not to a great degree, but the GOP is imploding a little at a time, day by day and this just doesn’t help at all.Further proof that I need to keep working hard to earn enough to buy 1,000 acres in the middle of nowhere and a lot more ammo. Probably need to find a wife too to take with me … it always becomes more complicated as you go …
I was at a bar last night and some stranger asked me how wide my stance was. Was that sexual harassment?
“Have no idea how you got from homosexuality to big government and terrorism. But there’s no reason why we cannot fight terrorists, cut useless programs and protect marriage at the same time.”
I strongly doubt the 3 percent of the population who choose the homosexual lifestyle much care about what I think. Truth be told, they would be more correct to beworried about such public spectacles as the Folsom Sex “fair” and “pride parades” as being “alienating”.
Ar any rate, I don’t really worry about alienating those into homosexuality just as I don’t worry about alienating the herion-using community. If people need my approval they likely shouldn’t be doing whatever they’re doing.
I agree. Let him fade into increasing irrelevance.
Your analogy breaks down when you take into account that you are alienating homosexuals as well as many of their friends and families. Few consider chronic heroin users to be people of good character, but many Americans have worked with homosexuals who make very substantial contributions to the country and to the economy.
My earlier point about Islamic terrorism and the size of government was alluding to the fact that pushing more voters away from the Republican party can put Hillary in the White House. Maybe 3% seems like a small number but it decides a lot of electoral votes.
Guess I spoke to soon. I was relatively impressed by the civility of the discussion right up until the point where purplepeep equated my gay friends and family with heroin addicts. Nice.
craig is beyond therapy. in his world, he matters.
Dear Senator Craig:
http://beldar.blogs.com/beldarblog/2007/10/2007-10-04_order_denying_motion.pdf
The judge’s opinion thoroughly covered all the issues.
Your chances on appeal are zero.
To repeat the advice from Darksean:
On October 4th, 2007 at 5:09 pm, Rusty said:
William Jefferson got his committee chairmanship taken away which is no small punishment.
************************
Having a chairmanship taken from him is NOT “PUNISHMENT”.
JAIL TIME is punishment.
Losing his job is NATURAL AND JUST CONSEQUENCES.
When Liberals buffer Dims from ANTURAL consequences of their own feloneous and miscreant conduct, other consequences will kick in. Consequences no human force can buffer, or shield one from.
The Law of Harvest will NOT be thwarted.
You guys are off on a rabbit trail, concerning “fertility” as a cornerstone of marriage”.
It isn’t the cornerstone of marriage – it is just the manifestation of the health of the relationship.
When God gave Eve to Adam, He said, here is a helpmeet (not “helpmate”).
This word is defined as including but not limited to; encourager, nurturer, enabler, helper, provider, protector, supporter, complementor – complete-or, sustainer, succourer, aid, nourisher, husbandman (as in one who tends to and cares for livestock and vines and orchards – to provide for their ability to thrive), and of “having eachother’s back”, meeting the needs, and of sharing the load of life’s burdens joined in working for a common goal.
Unfortunately, this is something the homosexual relationship cannot offer to the “partner”. They constitute the greatest threat to health, life, and purpose of life, and by participating in such a relationship, the implied demand of the one is that the other expend their life resources, literally their physical health and wellbeing upon the one’s selfish pleasure.
The vow to do the other person good all the days of their lives is broken by the consumation of the relationship.
We all realize that when 3 yr olds dress up and have a pretend tea party with their dollies, they are “playing house”.
I don’t say this to say their feelings aren’t real, or powerful, or deep – I certainly don’t say it to make light of what they go through – but they are misdirected, and they are deadly, and they are in fact just as dangerous as a ship on a very very long voyage having the wrong navigational information, and having steering mechanisms that are fatally flawed.
It just isn’t going to arrive where it thought it was going.
Even though all the seemingly same effort is genuinely being expended, it isn’t doing what it thought it was. Or meant to do.
Meanwhile, the busy-ness of focusing on the distraction and the distortion has kept the individuals from their design function, and their true purpose, and best use – most thrilling fulfillment, the solution of their life, and what they were designed to be the solution for.
Like a couple of things I have seen, one, people using rubber tires as construction material for houses, and another man used hundreds of old TVs as building blocks for a wall. Well, in those cases, the tires and TVs were not fit for their design function, anyway, but still, their best use was not as construction material or garden walls.
Maybe a better example would be that of a primitive African tribe using a water pump in the middle of a drought for a tribal god, instead of a water pump, while all the people are starving to death for lack of water.
And no, I don’t single out homosexuality. This just is the topic of this thread.
There just isn’t any reason to look at this earth and think endorphin-stroking addictions are the purpose and meaning of Life.
On October 5th, 2007 at 12:44 am, purplepeep said:
*************
I know, and frankly, that knowledge helps me keep a lot more civil tongue in my mouth – believe it or not.
Actually, I have lost all patience with cretans who have a mountain of destruction spewed across their community in their wake and still demand the right to their “privacy”, and a right to massive social engineering without the support of even a MINIMAL majority of Americans for those changes. And don’t know why everyone is so angry with them.
So far, however, they are punishing themselves a great deal more than I would be able to do, so I have no vested interest at this point in coming after them.
Did you ever see the old Vincent Price horror movie, “The Masque of the Red Death”?
Some would say that “privacy” is an unalienable right endowed by your Creator and not something that you have to ask the government for.
Thanks for the quote Ombre Rose. It is illustrative. As I read the quote I thought it described the commitment that some, not all, of my gay friends have made to one another. Honestly, I can’t find an aspect of that quote that they fail to meet. I’ll save the quote since my wife and I should often refer to it to make sure that our marriage stays tuned-up.
Also, I agree with you on the matter of fertility.
Ombre Rose, you strike me as a well-intentioned person, but sorry…your posts on this topic are extremely offensive and homophobic. I’m honestly sorry to have to say this, but you are a bigot, and if you are hiding behind your Christian beliefs as an excuse for your bigotry, then you are also a coward.
So much for civility.