The Goose Creek Two: Megahed reportedly researched high-powered rifles; brother accused of sending coded messages
Curiouser and curiouser. As long as the Goose Creek Two and their families arouse suspicion and the mystery unfolds, I’ll continue to cover them. The latest development in the case involve suspect Yousef Megahed and his brother, Yahia.
Megahed’s bond was delayed late last night over after the federal judge in the trial heard new evidence involving Megahed’s alleged research into high-powered rifles:
A federal judge in Tampa on Friday, heard new evidence against Megahed that, in addition to the video includes research allegedly done by Megahed on high powered rifles. Prosecutors say Goose Creek police say they found the information on Megahed at the time he and fellow University of South Florida student Ahmed Mohamed were arrested in August. Evidence also includes a stop the two made at an Ocala Wal-Mart on their way to South Carolina and a weapon prosecutors say Megahed stored at a rented storage unit.
Fireworks. Just fireworks. Just two students on a leisurely drive to the beach. That’s all. Nothing to see here. Move along…
Separately, local Florida outlets are reporting on a strange video of Megahed’s brother, Yahia. Via Fox 13 News in Tampa:
An odd video raises new questions about the USF students who caused a national security scare. Ahmed Mohamed and Yousef Megahed are already charged with driving explosives across state lines. Now prosecutors say Megahed’s brother tried to send a sinister code through a jail-house camera.
Tampa Bay 10 also has the story, but dismisses the video:
The federal government says a tape of Yousef Megahed’s brother Yahia shows him using secret code through facial movements and then sign language to communicate with Megahed. The government told a federal judge, that’s why Megahed is a danger to the community.
And when the government first played that tape of what it said was Megahed’s brother sending secret signals to him when he was talking to him while he was in jail it looked as if it had a real smoking gun. Unfortunately for the government at the time the tape was made, Megahed was in his cell and couldn’t see it and Megahed’s brother says he was just seeing himself on camera and making faces because he was bored.
Adam Allen, Megahead’s attorney, says he thought it was rather funny and comical that the government would make such assumptions of a 24-year-old. Although Megahed’s attorney wouldn’t go as far as saying the government tape was embarrassing, he can’t understand how prosecutors could tell a federal judge that this was part of dark conspiracy.
Yahia Megahed, he was waiting to talk to his brother in jail, it was boring situation, and he was waiting around for 15 minutes and was just playing around with the camera. But what about the sign language he is supposedly doing? Megahed says he doesn’t know sign language so it is impossible for him to do any.
You should watch the video for yourselves and see if you believe Yahia Megahed. I’m posting screenshots. Just goofing off? Rather extraordinary, precise, and deliberate for supposedly random gestures from a guy who claims he doesn’t know sign language:
I’ve covered Yahia Megahed previously back on August 12, when I reported:
At social network Hi5, there’s a page for Yahia Megahed here.
This appears to be the same Yahia Megahed, older brother of pipe bomb suspect Youssef, in the family photo. Yahia Megahed’s hometown is listed as Egypt. His number one interest is “ISLAM.” Among his Hi5 friends is an “Ahmed,” who appears to be the same Ahmed Mohamed charged in the Goose Creek explosives case.
If investigators aren’t already exploring this social network, I’m sure they will be.
Shortly after I published my post, Yahia Megahed’s Hi5 site disappeared.
Fireworks. Just fireworks. Just two students on a leisurely drive to the beach. That’s all. Nothing to see here. Move along…
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- OpinionBug.com » Officials Say Yousef Megahed’s Brother Sent Sinister Code
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- Fireworks Kids - Update « Waste Of My Oxygen
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It looks like he’s spelling out,
‘I’m a friggin loser scumbag terrorist’
to me.
Michael Chertoff’s “not terrorists” continue to be shown to be just that. I personally want to thank you Michelle for staying on the case because MSM will not.
I am not a dhimmi and cruise all the middle eastern sites to see what we are up against and I as you know Michelle am very aware of the danger we Americans and other Western countries face from this jihad leading to caliphate.
I hope American’s wake up and see that this will be a war that will last as long as the Cold War and perhaps longer.
They better be, my confidence level is low.
Sic ‘em, Michelle! The RPPO (Religion of Peace and Perpetual Outrage) wants us to ignore this.
I’m sure they were fireworks, Michelle. you know, those special jihadist, infidel-killing, suitable for a pipe or a vest fireworks. They’re special, and you can’t buy them at that summer-only store just over the Ohio border. Good God, you’re so provincial. Don’t you know that one man’s terrorist bomb is another man’s freedom fighting fireworks!
The dude may have been trying to communicate with extraterrestrials, people like Nancy Sheehan.
What the problem here? Just a couple of young devout Muslims doing what they’re suppose to do according to the KORAN, which is to make war on the non-believers.
I mean don’t we have freedom of religion in this country?
From what I could see it looked pretty deliberate to me, but what do I know since receiving POW Survival Training while in the Military. The training was designed to resist giving vital information during the “Cold War” era and included an ingenious tape cope the guests of the Hanoi Hilton used to communicate with their fellow POWs. We were also challenged to find other ways to communicate while in the POW camp. At the time we were told it was classified “Secret” until about 10 years later some jackass put it in the Air Force magazine. Those of us in the flying community were not amused.
In this current war we are the only ones taking prisoners and I wonder if anyone will grow a pair and start to use the Law of Armed Conflict to deal with these unlawful combatants here and abroad. I remember in WWII when we caught Nazi saboteurs shortly after they were sent ashore from a U-boat. Most of them actually turned themselves in. We ended up executing most of them under the Hague Conventions of War. These people are much worse and more of a threat then anyone could be from a Western country. Look at some of the Muslim website these people are not students they are holy warriors come to slit our throats in the night and it is time to revoke their student visas send them all packing.
I need to invite them over on the 4th so they can do a fireworks show for me. Of course it would be a shame if they blew themselves up doing it because they didn’t know what they were doing.
kinda like the Ferry fella’s, poof..
be viligant everyone, thereeeeeee heeeeere…..
If this will not make you lock and load, then just submit.
Read the rest of this story at:
Debbie Schlussel
Remember,it’s O.K to lie to infidels even if you use “sign” to do it. If the Democrats win the W.H. and hold the majority in the congress, every suspected terrorist in this country legally or not will tie up the courts. Enemy combatants will have access to the courts with appeal after appeal on our tax dollars.
I apologize for my Alma Mater and their kook stance on this.
Michelle, I am not confident that Chertoff is going to do anything. I know sign language and it’s pretty obvious what he’s trying to do. I really do fear for our country and believe it will get worse if Hillary and the Dims take both houses in 08.
Just a quibble.
What is a “High Powered Rifle?”
This is more gun-banner framing.
That said, it shows he was up to no good.
I’m sure it’s not one of these.
RR bb…
Hey….watch out – he’ll put someone’s eye out with that thing….
I wouldn’t trust them with even that, but words mean things and all that.
I’m not all set to get my hair on fire over this (this sign language, not the fact that their terrorists). It comes to mind two possibilities I haven’t seen anyone ask about.
1) Was there anyone else in the room who could see it?
2) Could it possibly be a false flag to cause just this kind of response?
I do find it laughable that the defense attourney mocks the idea that 24 year olds are sending signals by sign language. Really, I never realized there was a mandatory age minimum to learn how to (try and) conduct covert activity.
Adam Allen, Megahead’s attorney, says he thought it was rather funny and comical that the government would make such assumptions of a 24-year-old.
Now there is a good terrorist lawyer for you. What were the ages of some of the throatslitters on 9/11? After all such assumptions!!?? Would a young 20’s something muslim male do anything untoward? What the blank is wrong with these people. I was just thinking last night, why hasn’t the MSM mentioned this case at all? If it were some white protestants who had beaten up a black or homosexual, the trial would be followed like an OJ episode.
almeehan, no kidding and have they not seen the pictures of how young they start these
jihadistsmurdering ignorant cowards????!!! gimmie a break.Just pop over to Little Green Footballs to get a real look at the enemies child abuse they start them on martyrdom right out of the chute.
Some of these groups taking advantage of the United States are lucky I was born without the vigilante gene. I sick of this “bullcrap”.
Morning all …
Age is irrelevant when considering what one of the jihadists will do … remember they have been being brain-washed from the day they were born … this guy is 24 and how many of the suicide bombers have been 10 or more years younger than that … get a clue folks … age and sex have no bearing on whether one of these sheep will commit suicide or detonate a bomb or anything else …
BTW, I have been wondering something related to that martyr business … anyone here know the answer?
We are told the males become honored martyrs and are greeted by 72 Virgins (or however many it is?) …
what are the females greeted by? … what is their motivation? … what is their reward? …
are they now no one’s property? …
can they safely go to school now? …
do they still have to wear bourqahs? …
can they get a real divorce? …
do they still get stoned to death? …
can they speak out and vote? …
This list could go on and on … but for the most part I would say the women of Iraq have been getting some of these rights … can’t say the same for the rest of the Islamic World … can we?
The only greeting any of them get is “Welcome to Hell”
“High-Powered Rifle” to me means not a shotgun and definitely not a standard hunting rifle … extremely long range and most likely with a top of the line scope on it … most likely larger caliber than one would normally be considering for “legal” uses …
But I guessin for some of them it money motivated for their surviving family.
hey there aj … OT … sorry about your halos … those things slip any lower they are going to turn into nooses around their necks … you need to give them a swift kick in the butt buddy …
On deciphering his signals…
are those gang codes, islamic letter forms, recognizable american sign language, or some other very obvious code?
If it isn’t something very idiosyncratic that they have worked out between the two of them, maybe netfolk can figure it out…
agree aj … it is also a way out of their misery …
ROP = ROD (Religion of Death)
Christianity = ROL (Religion of Life)
I’m just glad that they are seemingly really digging into everything about these guys and their backgrounds and associations with others … now if the MSM would just cover it like Michelle and let everyone see what is going on we would all be better off …
Indeed, another reason I’d like to see Blog TV with Michelle Malkin even if it’s just an hour show once a week. That would wake up alot of politicians and citizens.
other than the ones that are asleep anyway … like Kennedy and Byrd …
Trying to reason with the left here at home is amazingly an example of what would happen if the left ever got their chance to sit down and reason with the Islamic Extremists … you can not have productive discourse and compromise when one side is incapable of listening to anything other than their own views … but these blinded fools can not see that for some reason …
OT-
thanks dl, yeah the halo’s are in it deep hopefully they will play better at home.
Have you seen jrl’s yahoo group? here’s a link.
Friends of MM
Worst group of nitwits I have ever seen gathered on the Hill, I’m sick to my stomach.
I’m already signed up from yesterday aj … I am looking forward to seeing how many from here will join in …
OT … was lucky enough to go to both D’Back wins over the cubbies … the ballpark was rocking buddy … never seen it that loud … it was unbelievable … “anyone – anytime” … the 2007 D’Backs motto … almost every thing you have seen so far has been from our rookie and 2nd year players coming through like they have all year …
If “high-powered rifle” is gun banner terminology, we’re all in a lot of trouble, since among the users of this term are:
The NRA.
Every gun magazine.
Every organization that does rifle shooting competition.
http://www.nrahq.org/compete/RuleBooks/HPR/hpr-index.pdf
Unless you’re quibbling over the hyphen.
I think both Megaheds are terrorist scumbags who should be shot, but this video is clearly a bored young terrorist scumbag playing with a camera. That’s not sign language, that’s “ooooh, look, my fingers move on the screen when I move them in the camera”.
syberghost said:
Unless I misread the article this was not this guy playing with a camera … this was from the police monitoring cameras when he went to see his brother in the slammer …
Different context as the premise is that he thought his brother could see what he was doing …
All still supposition … but I can assure you most of us would not even think about doing anything the least been suspicious or attention getting in that situation … time will tell if there was any meaning behind it …
Take a look at one of the sites for the deaf. That was sign language. And it makes sense – with communications intercepts geared primarily toward voice communications, with the availability of on line video one can circumvent a good part of the security monitoring apparatus.
You are only seeing a brief glimpse of the signed message on the video. Apparently, the feds have translated the signs and are not publicaly releasing the message. It was, however, alarming enough to make them move to deny bail.
Jim M
Good point
What a great country we live in. Check out the latest from our great Congress
http://worldmuslimcongress.blogspot.com/2007/10/ramadan-bill-us-congress.html
Well he sure as heck isnt saying.
“Check Please”
or trying to get a waiters attention.
trinitytim
Can any of these idots even spell Dhimmitude … let alone understand its meaning? …
lol dl, Id be surprised if they can find their car keys.
aj … what car keys? … I doubt seriously most of the ones that have been there far too long drive themselves to “work” …
The smugness is what irritates me—with the two pipe bombers and now this brother.
If the brother is not using sign language I would be surprised (it is not English, however). Note how is is constantly looking over his shoulder when he knows he is being filmed.
Thanks, Michelle, for following what the MSM does not.
They can’t drive. Little boy Kennedy proved that. They have everything given to them.
I’m suprised they can even pee on their own. Then again, Senator Craig brings that into question. No not really. I know what he was doing and it wasn’t peeing.
Hey DesertLover:
This is from Mark Steyn concerning female suicide Jihadist. I laughed for five minutes when I read it. Mark is a treasure. As far as the other questions, it seems to depends on the Imam’s Fatwa of the Day!
May 27, 2007
MARK STEYN
News, news everywhere — so much one can hardly take it all in:
Item One: In Gaza, Islamic Jihad is planning to send waves of female suicide bombers into action against the Zionist Entity. Asked by an Israeli reporter whether self-detonating ladies enjoy the same 72-virgin deal as the lads, an Arab scholar said no, but that the gals will be served in Paradise by “dwarfs.” Snow White got seven dwarfs, but it’s unclear whether Blow White will get the full 72: Sleepy, Grumpy, Bashful, etc., all the way down to Incendiary, Non-Alcoholic and Anti-Zionist.
It was a jail video conferencing system. You know immediately when the other person is connected. If you see yourself, he’s not. So this kid knew for an absolute fact his brother wasn’t watching, and had no reason to believe his brother would ever see it. Couple that with him making the exact same sort of faces that my 9 year old makes when he looks in a mirror, and I have to say the theory this was a message to his brother makes no sense whatsoever. It’s a shame that as a result it may so discredit the government’s case that this scumbag could go free.
Four suggestions to discourage
creepinggalloping sharia in America:1. Use just a touch of pork brine as standard packing fluid for ALL canned meat.
2. BBQ pulled pork as the ONLY Dept. of Agriculture school food item.
3. Pork rinds as ONLY airline, bus, and train snack food.
4. Get SERIOUS and join your local school board, county/city board of supervisors, etc. And take your dog to all meetings.
It is getting more dificult every day to get convictions against terrorists in this country. Even the HLF deliberations are going poorly. Seems that one of the jurors can’t find it within him to vote. Amazing.
The fight against Islam is on and I don’t see anyone with the politcal will to manage an effective fight. I mean, for crying out loud, even Congress and the President are bowing down to these killers.
I don’t know if this guy was trying to pass a message or not and frankly, I don’t care. He and his buddy are enemy combatants and they ought to be shipped out to Gitmo instead of even being considered for bail in Tampa.
It’s time for a new Constitutional Convention to modify the first ammendment. Any religion that proclaims its intention to establish its doctrines as law MUST be prhibited in its entirety. Islam is not worthy of first ammendment protections.
Where are our leaders? Will the next President of the United States please stand up and show us some leadership?
I’m fluent in sign language.
He seems be signing using the manual alphabet,
FCLEWGF
The last letter “F” could be the start of the code, “FCLEWG” when he looked away in the last frame as if he was watching for anybody walking up to him.
What if, Mr Allen, your assumptions are wrong? How many dead will it take to make all of you apologists to finally see the truth?
Religon of Peace my patutty. You are also an infidel in their eyes, so you would be dead too.
This PC crap will get us all killed. How funny and comical is that, I ask.
I have a WWII wargame that I’m setting up to run with the current liberals in charge of everything under a Republican President/administration in 1941.
I fully expect the US to lose.
You can tell who is serious about fighting the war on our side by how they treat the enemy on our shores. I don’t see the left ever getting serious…until after they lose and the enemy is sawing their heads off where it will be “Hey! what are you doing this for? We gave you the world!”
Marshall Russ
Thanks for the information … has always been one of those questions I have had but didn’t find an answer for … funny isn’t it? … they are such “prudes” in life but all they can count on in death is massive amounts of sex …
Would have responded sooner but I had to leave for a few minutes of errands to make sure I have no interruptions during the ball games today …
If these men are Legal Ailians,then it is O.K.to look at any firearm for sale,provided the proper bachground check be done.
As far as one macking faces,and “signing”,we John Do’s assume the worst.After 09/11/01,I doNOT trust any foriegner.Gitmo! Gitmo!
It wasn’t that he said it was just a 24 year old, but he said it was an INNOCENT 24 year old. The fact the he is implying that a 24 year old is incapable of knowing and using codes, plotting to do crimes etc., is not just laughable but insulting to anyone with an above room temperature IQ. both the lawyer and the scum come out laughing at everyone. How many times will it take for this to occur, for the Liberals to insult people’s intelligence and mock those that call them on their crap before people stand up for themselves? How can this accusation thwart the Peosecutions case? It is their JOB to do such things. How can this defense attorney sleep at night, knowing that he is attemting to get potential terrorists off the hook based on technicalities and such? I understand that everyone deserves a fair trial and an honest defense, but the key word there is “honest”. I will never understand just what type of scumbag it takes to defend those so clearly guilty. It happens all the time: you have someone caught dead to rights on video, holding the weapon and 50 positive ID’s and they still claim “Not Guilty” and some lawyer takes the case, and then propagates the lie.
the lying done in this case…by the attorney, the family and the perps is just disgusting, and it insults every person in this country. Fireworks? Please. The really sad part is when all the little Libs say, “oh, the big bad Government are just picking on the because of race/religion. I believe that these two were just so overwhelmed with pride in being here that they wanted to celebrate by making their own fireworks, and anyone who doesn’t believe is just a racist.”
Of course, they are all the same Liberals. Liberals like the substitute teacher my 9 year old had yesterday who turned out to be a Truther and tried to feed the 4th grade the Truther line. Good thing my daughter doesn’t buy it. Principal is getting a visit from me on Monday.
JHSII, for the record, I’m not a member of either party. Call me a pragmatic moderate, and I think both the far left and the far right are equally ineffective and silly to be honest. Anyway, just wanted to point out that the Democratic Party has historically been considered the “war party” or the interventionist party if you prefer. Republicans right up through Reagan pretty much stuck to the non-interventionist (or isolationist if you want a stronger term) philosophy. Wilson had to drag the Republicans into WWI. FDR couldn’t get us into Europe and WWII until Pearl Harbor (3 or 4 years after Hitler was into the meat of his evil). Truman took us into Korea. JFK and Johnson got us into and ramped up Vietnam, and Tricky Dick was elected in part to wind the war down. The takeover of the Republican Party by the neocons changed the foreign policy mindset of the party and actually made that aspect of the party’s philosophy look like old-school liberalism. No surprise then that old-school traditional conservatives such as George Will, Buckley, Buchanan, etc. were against the Iraq war. You can be sure that the Goldwaters, Reagans and even Bush 41s of the world would not have gone in to Iraq.
Bill D, spellcheck’s a beautiful thing my man.
RetFireman, I understand the frustration you feel regarding defense attorneys who represent heinous, obviously guilty defendants, but the fact of the matter is that under our Constitution everyone accused of a crime is entitled to a competent defense. In really bad situations (e.g., pedophiles caught dead to rights) where lawyers want to avoid like the plague representing the dregs of society, the court will have to appoint a member of the criminal defense bar to represent the defendant, and that laywer has no choice in that situation but to take the case or face sanctions and/or contempt charges. Likewise, if a defendant is eligible for a public defender, same deal. This case is probably different though, in that there’s lots of publicity at stake, and I’m sure one of those scumbag lawyers to whom you refer was more than happy to take the case.
RetFireman..
Having worked for 30 years in law enforcement in the Washington DC area, I could tell you some stories about defense lawyers that would keep you up at night.
The framers of our Constitution insisted on providing for a fair trial but they did their best to rid our streets of criminals. Defense lawyers, for the most part, don’t care one bit about guilt or innocence, it’s all about how they can get the client off.
That works out better for them, the lawyers and it increases their paychecks. Bottom line is money.
It’s one thing to provide an honest defense but to throw away the truth in the name of defending a criminal is itself, IMHO, criminal.
Oh well. I should stop complaining now.
Sorry Dakine, but your credibility just took a massive hit when you used the liberal term “neocon”.
For the record though, Reagan was anything but non-interventionist or isolationist. Does the bombing of Libya ring a bell? The invasion of Grenada?
Bush 41 did go into Iraq – maybe you missed the first Gulf War.
I will also point out that the modern liberal idea of fighting wars with lawyers will guarantee our defeat. Do you really think the 19 hijackers on 9/11 cared about a bunch of lawyers threatening to sue?
After having watched that video, I cannot fathom how anyone with an above room temperature IQ – {that was great RetFireman – I’m so stealing that!)would see it as innocent fidgetting.
Yahia was clearly concerned about who was able to view his movements as he quickly changed mode from communication to head scratching when he noticed a passerby behind him. This suggests the possibility that Yahia was sending a message, perhaps to his brother through someone with access to this tape who would relay this message to his brother or any other complicit member within that community.
Recall these USF students/inmates are from the infamous Jihad campus of UF – tangled in the web of Professor Sami Al-Arian’s deceit. The local press was hardly critical of Al-Arian, the University, local and state officials were standing with Al-Arian until he was finally indicted.
I continue to question why these two are remanded in Florida, especially that specific location of Florida, when the charges were from Goose Creek SC.
Eyes Wide Open.
Thank You Michelle Malkin!
Sorry JHSII, but it’s not just liberals who use the term “neocon”. Traditional, old-school conservatives use the term as well to describe those who have hijacked their movement. Also, I did not describe Reagan and Bush 41 in particular as non-interventionists. Reagan used military force in very narrow, limited duration situations, and certainly did not occupy any foreign countries. Bush 41 went went into Kuwait with massive multi-lateral support, again in a military action with a very specific goal. Again, no occupation. Republics have always been willing to ultimately engage in “necessary” military action. Preemptive or optional military engagements, not so much.
Like I stated, I understand all that. My point was in the fact that it takes a certain, low-life scum to defend the obviously guilty, and the fact that basically, lying in court…unless you happen to be a Republican who works for Cheney…holds no penalty. For lawyers to look straight at a video of their client committing the crime and still being able to claim their client is not guilty is as straight up a lie in court aas it comes. Same as the kid in Northern california the other day who tok a classroom hostage, was caught with the gun, tns of witnesses etc., and just claimed “not Guilty”. if anything, there needs to be something done…law, ammendment etc., to where this kind of nonsense is stopped. It saves money etc., and would be able to cease all these travesties. Of course, were that to happen, people llike Breck Girl would be without an income, but I am willing to take that chance.
As for the sign language, even the small snippet of tape we get to see shows that he was making deliberate motions with his hand and fingers. These were clearly sign language letters that anyone who has taken a one hour familiarization course in it could identify. the MSM is attempting to portray us all as fools once again in that the scum claims he doesn’t know sign language and thus we should just take him at his word. You know, that in itself is insulting. After all, he is just some dumb, innocent 24 year old, doesn’t know sign language so how dare you try to say he is a bad guy. Throw the whole case out.
I don’t think so.
Hey Dakine.
You make some assumptions about conservatives such as Will, Buchanan ,and other presidents not using force. The president is charged to protect our nation’s people, economy, our way of life. We have treaties with allies to help protect our national and their interests abroad. The above mentioned writers and past presidents weren’t sitting in the Oval Office at the time a decision had to be made. Sadam was using oil for food to get the hapless U.N. sanctions lifted. He considered himself the reincarnation of Nebuchadnezzar and true leader of all in the region. Ahmadinajad believes he is one of the “nails” that will bring back the Mahdi in an apocalyptic world war. Both of them in a power grab, with their past history of war, would have been a global disaster.
When truth is sacrificed in the name of “Right to legal representation” we all lose.
The swing of the pendelum to protect the “rights” of the accused began in the 60’s with the me generation and has progressed with the appointment of liberal judges who interpret laws based not on precedent, but on their own political and personal agendas.
As for why these two were transferred to Florida, the state charges in SC were dropped to facilitate the prosecution of federal charges in the federal system. The cops in Berkely Co SC did a great job but if they can get a conviction in federal court, the penalties can be more severe. I hope.
RetFireman, I get that you understand the basic point. However, what I was trying to get across is that not every lawyer representing an obviously, slam dunk guilty defendant is a low-life scumbag. As I said, a member of the criminal defense bar who is appointed by the court to represent such a defendant is basically doing so involuntarily…he or she has no choice in the matter. Same with a public defender. At that point, such a lawyer is obligated as a matter of law and the code of ethics (yeah, yeah, please save the tired lawyer jokes, I’ve heard them all) to represent the client to the utmost of his or her ability. Sorry, but that’s our system, and trust me, if you were wrongly accused of a crime (and it happens way more than you think), or simply made a poor choice, you would have a much greater appreciation of our criminal justice system.
trinitytim, you may want to re-read the 6th amendment. The language is clear on its face and establishes an absolute right to legal representation. This isn’t some recent invention of the whacko left. Goes all the way back to the inception of our country my man. See above paragraph in the event you are ever wrongly accused of a crime.
Marshall, I understand the neocon position very well,and you’ve kind of generally described part of it. My point is simply that the foreign policy you describe pre-dates Iraq, Afghanistan, 9/11, etc. It has been percolating among the foreign policy neocons for some time now as a way to deal with the Middle East and Bush 43 bought into it. The decision to invade Iraq was not really a response to any immediate threat. It was simply the initial step in implementing the neocon foreign policy in the ME…in other words, it was a preemptive/elective military action rather than a necessary one (such as WWII or Gulf War I or Afghanistan for that matter). Defend the policy if you want, but it is what it is…plenty of good books on this subject, several written by pretty neutral observers. I’m pretty certain that most past Republican presidents would not have taken the same action. There are probably a couple of past Democratic presidents who might have however.
Dakine
I suppose we could debate point by point.
It’s a different world. 9/11 changed everything.
dakine,
You don’t need to tell me about the 6th or any other ammendment. I am quite familiar with each of them. I used to teach Constitutional law in police academies throughout the Mid-Atlantic and I put that training to use in the field for 30 years.
My point was simmple. I never questioned the right to representation. I simply stated that end runs around the truth in the name of defense representation is not what the framers of our constitution guaranteed. They guaranteed representation and due process.
Oh and BTW, you are entitled to believe whatever you want about innocent people in jail and foreign policy, but just because you say it, doesn’t make it the truth. Your opinion is just that, your opinion.
One can only hope. Thank you for that info. However, the Federal Judiciary system is divided into numbered districts . . . and South Carolina is in the fourth district while the federal court these clowns are being remanded to resides in the 11th district.
What am I missing here? Is there no Federal Court in the 11th district qualified for this case?
Fair enough Marshall.
trinitytim, sorry if I misunderstood your prior posts. Question for you though. Would you mind giving me a specific example of “an end run around the truth in the name of defense representation”? And are you referring to a 6th amendment issue when you make that statement or another of the Bill of Rights?
I was not speaking of these borderline cases where someone was being wrongfully accused. Nothing I hate more than when people either misrepresent what I have said or turn my words around. I believe I was speaking only of those that were clearly guilty and the scum that represent them. As far as PD’s are concerned, they have the right to refuse based on the fact that representing these people would violate laws. It is against the law to knowingly lie to a court if the attorney is aware of the lie.
Most people who go into the defence realm of law are usually Liberals. Period. the Conservatives generally go into the prosecutorial areas. the Liberals do it as another way to “Seak truth to power”
Since my brother is a cop, and I spent enough time on the streets myself, i am fully aware of how the legal systems work, and sorry…people being wrongfully accused hapens FAR less than ou think.
I could give you plenty of examples but its late and I’m going to hit the sack. I will give you one pretty famous example, OJ Simpson.
I think the evidence of his guilt was pretty conclusive but the defense team was able to twist and deflect enough to convice a jury that the cops planted the evidence. I believe that OJ’s defense team knew that he did it.
I was not a fan of the prosecution strategy but the evidence of his guilt was overwhelming yet he walked away.
End run around the truth!!
hero,
I think the 11th district made more sense because the feds were planning on hitting the Tampa residences. Better to keep things close to home.
Just my opinion because I don’t have any inside information on that decision but I did predict that this would happen.
trinitytim, I’ll grant you that the OJ case was an abomination of justice, but it was basically the aberration of all-time and was lost based on societal stuff that went beyond the evidence. I would be curious in other examples you might have though. I would point out, however, that there really aren’t that many “travesties of justice” out there. You hear about the ones that occur, but conviction rates are typically extremely high in most jurisdictions, and the feds are consistently up over 95%. Frankly, the biggest problem in the criminal justice system is not enough prisons and cops.
RetFireman, pretty clear to me that you don’t like lawyers. That’s okay. I don’t like them much either, and I happen to be one. Let me try one more time. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I’m simply trying to tell you that not every lawyer who represents the most horrible criminals imaginable is a low-life scumbag. As you know, under the Constitution, every person is entitled to a competent defense. When an individual cannot afford an attorney or is unable to convince any attorney to represent him because of the nature of his case (and that happens alot), one must be appointed for him. I’m not going to get into to comparing credentials with you, but you’re just wrong on much of what you say. There are many times when an attorney must essentially represent a client against his will because no one else will. Most of those kinds of cases are money losers. You are also very wrong as to why most criminal defense lawyers do what they do. Very few do it because they are seeking truth and justice for all the poor criminals out there…really not that many liberal bleeding hearts in the criminal defense bar. Here are the 4 basic categories of the criminal defense bar:
The Big-Time Money Guys – these are the name guys. They do it for the money, plain and simple. They only represent clients with money or take cases with big publicity which might lead to book deals or more clients with money. The big money is with drug lord clients, organized crime guys, white collar criminals (think Enron or Martha Stewert) and rich folks who get into trouble or whose kids get in trouble. There’s no bleeding heart seeking justice kind of deal with these guys and gals.
The Hacks – these guys are also in it for the money, but they aren’t very good. These are the guys who advertise in the yellow pages and on bus benches. These guys are representing the regular folk who get in trouble and your basic low-life criminal. They also take court appointment cases and may or may not care about how hideous their client is. Lots of your scumbag-types in this category RetFireman.
Public Defenders – usually not the cream of the crop, but there are a few really good lawyers who do it because they are true believers. They obviously take the cases assigned to them.
Pro Bono/Public Interest Guys – these are typically your liberal true believers RetFireman. A pretty small part of the criminal defense bar, and lots of them work at the appeals level. Usually very good lawyers and aren’t in it for the money. Normally wouldn’t be representing the truly bad guys.
Dakine,
Liberals use “neocon” as a standard slur. I’ve engaged enough liberals in battle to know that.
The only ones who think anyone has “hijacked” (your term) the conservative movement are liberals (and yes, there are liberal Republicans).
You were the one who said:
If you didn’t intend to include Reagan in that group, then why did you put his name in that group? I’m not going to let you have it both ways.
Reagan at the time was fighting the Cold War, something the left was trying desperately to lose. Read up on your history, real history, not the stuff they teach in school nowdays.
I wish we had gone to free Kuwait with “massive multi-lateral support”. :::rolls eyes:::
The only reason we didn’t overthrow Saddam then was that when we went to the UN (a mistake) we agreed not to. As for “no occupation” you only do that when you defeat an enemy, and Saddam was anything but defeated at the cease-fire. (It was a cease-fire, not a surrender)
Preemptiion has become necessary, if you haven’t been paying attention. Or do you still believe that terrorists are scared off by a subpeona or warrant?
hmmm…I see now that you’re a lawyer which explains much. Most of the people you deal with are probably afraid of subpeonas and warrants. Here’s a clue: terrorists aren’t.
Do you know what would have happened if you had tried to negotiate with the hijackers on 9/11?
They would have slit your throat just to shut up your whining, and then continued on. Same result if you had gotten someone on one of the four aircraft armed only with a “cease and desist” order.
I’ll be nice and not tell any of the lawyer jokes I know.
Throughout the ages, people have used various means to communicate a message that could be done either by gesture or a dialect that isn’t understood by the general population. Check out a baseball game and you will see more sign language from the coaching staff than almost anywhere else
This is what appears to be going on here, and if not-then pardon this “John D.” for being so skeptical about the religion of peace being peaceful with some innocent ASL.
“My name is John Doe, and I won’t be silent anylonger!”
JHSII, A few random thoughts in response to your post:
…I’ve stated this in other comments, but in furtherance of being clear about where I’m coming from, I’ll say it again. I’m an independent. If pushed, I would describe myself as an “old school” conservative…a traditional conservative if you will. Fiscal restraint, smaller government (while recognizing those areas where the free market works better in partnership with the government), individual liberty, traditional conservative foreign policy. The social conservative agenda, not so much. A partial list of my kind of conservatives: Barry Goldwater, William F. Buckley, George Will, Bruce Fein, Colin Powell, Sandra Day O’Connor, just to name a few.
…yes, liberals do in fact use the term “neo-conservative” in a pejorative fashion. However, it is also a term that traditional conservatives use as well in describing those conservative who currently dominate the movement.
…every President from Truman through Reagan fought the Cold War, some more effectively than others. Reagan deserves a great deal of credit for closing the deal and presiding over the ultimate defeat of the USSR, but a lot went into arriving at that point in history over the preceding 45 years. Truman, JFK, LBJ, even Carter…I’m not sure any of these Presidents could reasonably be described as “liberal” or “left wingers”, at least in the way folks on this site use those terms.
…Reagan was pretty old-school conservative in his foreign policy. Somebody brought up Libya and Grenada as counter-examples. C’mon now…really? I don’t think you can honestly describe Reagan as an interventionist.
…Sorry, but Bush 41 was old-school as well in his foreign policy. Regardless of Bush’s agreement with the UN not to invade Iraq, he received plenty of consistent advice along the same lines from his foreign policy/defense team. We’ll agree to disagree on this one.
…My guess is that I’m probably older than you, and I’ve read plenty of history books. Not sure where you went to school, but I attended a mix of very traditional private schools and DOD schools as I followed my dad around the world as he helped win the Cold War in his role as a submarine officer.
…your comments about fighting terrorism were pretty patronizing and reflective of a lack of ability to engage in civil discourse. I’m not sure I’ve even really stated my position regarding the best way to fight terrorism, and it would be pretty arrogant for me to do so in any event. If you’ve got it all figured out, please clue everybody in. I think we can agree, however, that we need to find these guys, and either kill them or otherwise bring them to justice…just not sure the best way to go about accomplishing that goal. That good enough for you?
…BTW, what do you know about lawyers anyway, and what do you do for a living that you feel comfortable insulting people you don’t know based on their chosen profession?
Take it easy sport, and go Sox!
Dakine:
And why should I believe that? I’ve seen nothing in your posts so far that indicate an ability to think for yourself. You are good, however, as quoting from the liberal handbook.
If, as you say, this is all true, then why do you keep quoting from the liberal hanbook?
Your kind of conservative? Ok, I see Barry Goldwater first on your list – the same kinds of country club Republicans that led to liberal dominance in government. Bully for you.
It’s a pejorative in both circles. Have you ever wondered why your kind of country-club “conservatism” no longer dominates?
Carter isn’t/wasn’t a “liberal” or “left-winger”?
Any conservative credentials you might have thought you had were just shot down by you with that ridiculous statement.
For the record, up until President Reagan, presidents either held the ground or lost territory to the soviets. Reagan was the first one to actually drive them back.
So we didn’t bomb Libya or invade Grenada? Just so that you know, I was there when we launched the F-111’s from Lakenheath to bomb Libya, so apparently you’re telling me that we didn’t do what I was there doing. …ok… :::rolls eyes:::
Ok.
Judging by your responses so far, you may be older than I am, but you haven’t learned very much.
No, my comments were a direct response to your patronizing comments and your total inability to engage in civil discourse. Don’t try projection with me, it won’t work.
In case you haven’t noticed, conservatives have been stating how we should fight the terrorists. One of the ways is to go into Iraq and use it as a staging area for our operations in the ME. If you knew anything about military history at all, you would know that.
And no, it’s not arrogant to state a position on fighting terrorism.It is arrogant to tell everyone else just how wrong they are when you won’t come up with a position yourself.
Does this mean you’re going to stop insulting me and other real conservatives?
I could go on and on and on about all of the corrupt lawyers and judges I’ve known, but I don’t have time to write a book about it. You don’t want to know about a lawyer and judge I once knew that conspired to murder a woman and take everything she had – and got away with it. And, of course, when you find a lawyer and judge like that, you can’t find a lawyer to take them on.
Don’t even talk to me about lawyers.
“Take it easy, sport?” That’s like the apology that said “if you were offended”.
When you learn that you’re not better than everyone else maybe we can have a discussion.
Nowhere really to go with the conversation at this point and getting into a pissing match with you seems kind of pointless, so in spite of the personal shots, I’ll tip my hat to you and move on. Couple of parting thoughts though:
…I’m no genius, but I think I picked up from your prior post that you served in the armed forces (AF?…wife is an AF brat, brother-in-law is an AF officer and my best friend flew F-16s in Iraq). With all sincerity, thank you for your service to our country, and I really mean that.
…If you haven’t done so already, check out a couple of books that you might find interesting: The Conscience of a Conservative by Barry Goldwater (a truly great American, country club Republican or not) and Conservatives without Conscience by John Dean.
…Lastly, lawyers have done much to earn the bad rap they (we) get, but many of the best and brightest leaders of our country have been attorneys. The list is pretty long and illustrious as I’m sure you well know.
Cheers.
Sorry, Dakine, but I have no reason or desire to read anything by the backstabber John Dean.
My reading list for you would be Treason by Ann Coulter and Unhinged by Michelle Malkin. You also might try reading some G. Gordon Liddy.
Before you started all this, I was in a good mood. I suppose I should go watch my recording of 2007 Worlds and see if my mood improves.
Sorry to have been a buzz kill JHSII. The Sox just advanced to the ALCS if that helps. Forgive my ignorance, but 2007 Worlds refers to what? Just curious.
Dakine,
It’s ok, I’m fighting a troll war on a Ronald Reagan board and you may be inadvertantly be getting caught in the crossfire. I’m usually a lot nicer and more laid back – I hope we can start by saying Hello!! all over again
2007 World Gymnastics Championships
The actual event happened last month – NBC finally got around to televising a few minutes of it.
No worries JHSII. You’re obviously sharp and very well-informed, and I enjoy the back and forth. I look forward to more discussions/debates with you in the future.
Why does the Left want us to be hit before we do anything? Why are they so against “Pre-emptive War”? Do they not realize that the alternative could mean the deaths of millions of Americans before this country does anything?
Why must the Muslims actually detonate a nuclear weapon in the middle of New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco or Chicago before they feel we should do anything, and then…when we do it should be to go after them with cops and hand-cuffs?
I personally feel we have no business waiting until that point. It is the Presidents job to PROTECT the United States and it’s peoples, not to respond after the fact.
I guess they haven’t realized that the cities targetted by Islam for destruction are the places where these Liberals live and have bondage festivals.
RetFireman, just to make sure we’re being as accurate as possible here, it should be note that up until very recently conservatives/Republicans have been ardently opposed to “preemptive” military intervention. Liberals/Democrats have historically be much more apt to engage in “elective” or preemptive military actions…typically under the guise of nation building and spreading democracy. Putting that aside though, and assuming you are correct in your assertion that one or more of the Islamic terrorist organizations have the capability to attacking the US in the way you describe, what course of action would you advocate? In other words, if you were King of the US, what would you do, and would your action be conditioned on connecting such groups directly to a sovereign nation? In answering, remember that our invasion of Iraq was not directly related to an imminent threat or a specific terrorist connection, as you know.