Graeme Frost and the perils of Democrat poster child abuse Updated
Update 7:30pm Eastern. Mark Steyn is uncowed by the unhinged…
The Democrats chose to outsource their airtime to a Seventh Grader. If a political party is desperate enough to send a boy to do a man’s job, then the boy is fair game. As it is, the Dems do enough cynical and opportunist hiding behind biography and identity, and it’s incredibly tedious. And anytime I send my seven-year-old out to argue policy you’re welcome to clobber him, too. The alternative is a world in which genuine debate is ended and, as happened with Master Frost, politics dwindles down to professional staffers writing scripts to be mouthed by Equity moppets…
…So executive vice-presidents’ families are now the new new poor? I support lower taxes for the Frosts, increased child credits for the Frosts, an end to the “death tax” and other encroachments on transgenerational wealth transfer, and even severe catastrophic medical-emergency aid of one form or other. But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.
And, if the Democrats don’t like me saying that, next time put up someone in long pants to make your case.
The Baltimore Reporter recalls some more dubious Democrat health-care poster people.
Update 5:30pm Eastern. A word for all the faux outraged leftists accusing conservative bloggers of waging a “smear campaign:” Asking questions and subjecting political anecdotes to scrutiny are what journalists should be doing.
When a family and Democrat political leaders drag a child down to Washington at 6 in the morning to read a script written by Senate Democrat staffers on a crusade to overturn a presidential veto, someone might have questions about the family’s claims. The newspapers don’t want to do their jobs. The vacuum is being filled.
If you don’t want questions, don’t foist these children onto the public stage.
Fight your battles like adults and stop hiding behind youngsters dragging around red wagons filled with your talking points.
—
Bob at InsureBlog does some more reporting (now defined as “stalking” by the unhinged left):
The Frost family has a combined annual income of about $45,000, said Bonnie Frost. She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage - about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.
$1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?
A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.
Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That’s almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?
Apparently not.
Question: How many working poor couples get wedding announcements in the New York Times?
Update 2:50pm Eastern: I just returned from a visit to Frost’s commercial property near Patterson Park in Baltimore. It’s a modest place. Talked to one of the tenants, Mike Reilly, who is a talented welder. He said he had known the Frosts for 10 years. Business is good, he told me, though he characterized Frost as “struggling.” Reilly was an outspoken advocate for socialized health care without any means-testing whatsoever and an insistent critic of the Iraq war. Despite all that, he did agree with me that going without health insurance is often a matter of choice and a matter of priorities. Or maybe we were speaking two different languages.
I also passed by the Frosts’ rowhouse. There was an “01 - 20 -09″ bumper sticker plastered on the door and a newer model GMC Suburban parked directly in front of the house. I’ve seen guesstimates of the house’s worth in the $400,000-plus range. Those are high. But Mark Tapscott’s point remains: “[P]eople make choices and it’s clear the Frosts have made choice to invest in property and a business, but not in private health insurance. The Maryland-administered version of the federal SCHIP program, by the way, does not impose an asset test on applicants.” More here.
A few more notes: Allah points to this ABC News story on the Democrat reaction to blogger questions. Harry Reid spokesman Jim Manley complains: “This is a perverse distraction from the issue at hand” and accuses questioners of attacking children. No. Debating the threshold for government subsidies is the issue at hand. I disagree with some bloggers’ characterizations of the family as “Yuppies.” But as so many of the commenters in the thread below point out, there are countless families of far less means who reject the notion that government-subsidized health insurance for themselves and their children is a God-given right.
On the issue of the Frosts’ children attending the $20,000/yr Park School, Manley states the students have near-full tuition discounts. It’s not clear when or how long they’ve had those scholarships. For the record, Reilly, who has known the family for 10 years, told me it was his understanding the children’s grandparents paid the bill.
***
The most buzzworthy story on the right side of the blogosphere this weekend concerned young Graeme Frost, the 12-year-old child severely injured in a terrible car accident that also left his sister with permanent disabilities. Graeme Frost was propped up by Democrats desperate to avert the president’s veto of S-CHIP legislation, which would have massively expanded the government health care entitlement. The Dems are trying to muster up enough votes to override President Bush’s veto. They’ve scheduled a vote for Oct. 18. The boy gave the Democratic radio address last week, written for him by Senate Democrat staffers, and made several Beltway lobbying appearances with top Dem leaders. (Listen to Graeme’s address here.) The accident was horrible. The children deserve much sympathy and compassion.
But legislation-by-anecdote is a tricky thing, and should only be done when the anecdotes actually hold some water.
It turns out–as it does with so many health care stories pimped by the Democrats and the MSM–that there is much more to the Frosts’ story than meets the eye.
The family is not as destitute as the MSM has made them out to be. FreeRepublic member icwhatudo asks the tough questions the mainstream media won’t ask. Like why a “working family” in need of government-subsidized health care can afford to send two children to a $20,000-a-year-private school. And more (go to the post for more embedded links):
In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. “Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.”
What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company “Frostworks”,since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as “bookkeeper and operations management” prior to her recent 2007 hire at the “medical publishing firm”. As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.
His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999…
…One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business… maybe money can be found for other things…maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.
Mark Steyn and his readers do more digging here and here.
Don Surber: “Interesting that public schools aren’t good enough for their kids but public health insurance is.”
Glenn Reynolds: “If business owners with half-million-dollar-plus homes and kids in expensive private schools now count as ‘working families,’ does this mean they’ll get tax cuts?”
Rick Moran: “I know of several independent business people who have excellent health insurance coverage for their entire family by purchasing it through group plans at associations like the National Association of Independent Businesses (NFIB) or other small business groups. In fact, most people join those organizations just to get the benefit of being able to purchase health insurance in a group, which lowers the price considerably. I daresay that If Mr. Frost can afford a $400,000 house he could easily find private health insurance to cover his family. But that’s not the point. The blatant dishonesty of the Democrats in using a 12 year old as a prop in a political soap opera whose family’s financial situation was misrepresented should be exposed for the cheap trick it was. If the President had dared to be that dishonest, the press would have been all over him. Instead, the media has played along with the Democrats and will make it appear that the President and Republicans are heartless monsters for denying little Graeme and his family the benefits they deserve. A pretty low manuever by the Democrats.”
It’s par for the course. 
The use of Graeme Frost was part of a larger left-wing strategy to hide behind children and use them as cannon fodder in their losing bid to get S-CHIP passed into law. Predictably, the reflexive left is already lambasting those who scrutinized the Frosts’ case. “Class warfare?” Blame Democrats, not Republicans for that. If you can’t see the inherent unfairness in forcing people with lesser means pay for the health care of those with greater means who choose to forego health insurance to pay for other things (houses, cars, real estate, private schools), your partisan blindness is incurable.
The Frosts pushed their children into the political arena. They were joined by other parents who loaned their tots to the leftist cause for a full-press on CHIP. Children were trotted out last week pulling red wagons with signs like this…
…and recording ads like these…and these…
The Democrats have learned nothing–zip, nada, zilch–from Hillary Clinton’s disastrous exploitation of little Jennifer Bush to promote her socialized health care scheme. Let me take you on a short trip down memory lane.
In 1994, Hillary helped turn the ailing girl into a national prop. As I reported several years ago, it wasn’t merely a case of Democrat legislation-by-anecdote run amok. It was a case of notorious poster child abuse:
…Jennifer’s mother wrote a widely-publicized letter to the White House. “Do you know what it is like to choose between purchasing groceries for the week to feed your family or buying needed medications for your chronically ill child?” Kathleen Bush asked. Pale and wan, young Jennifer suffered from unidentified chronic digestive problems and myriad ailments from birth. She had her gall bladder, appendix, and fragments of her intestines removed. Those organs were replaced with a tangled cable of feeding tubes that constricted Jennifer’s 43-pound frame. Surgeons threaded a catheter into the girl’s heart. After 200 hospital visits and 40 operations, the Bush family had racked up medical bills worth more than $2 million.
Puzzled doctors and nurses scratched their heads over Jennifer’s 33,000-page medical file. The media ran maudlin profiles of the family. With TV crews in tow, saintly mother and sickly child headed up to Capitol Hill to campaign for Clinton-sponsored health insurance mandates.
Politicians unquestioningly embraced the Bushes and their tale of need. Hillary cuddled with seven-year-old Jennifer for the cameras; their mugs were splashed on the pages of USA Today and newspapers across the country. Shamelessly coached, Jennifer gave the Clintons a lucky silver dollar “to bring you good luck so everyone can have good insurance.” In another pre-programmed, kiddie-sized soundbite, Jennifer dutifully told the press: “I pray every night that I can get better - and that everyone can have insurance.”
Jennifer’s mother reveled in the relentless media attention and generous outpourings of public sympathy. Dropped by the family’s health insurer, out of a job, and in allegedly dire financial straits, Mrs. Bush poignantly appealed for government relief from the burden of Jennifer’s mysterious illness. “It’s strangling us,” she told one reporter.
But who was strangling whom? Several years before Hillary deified Mrs. Bush and elevated Jennifer to poster-child stardom, suspicious medical professionals had already begun questioning the mother’s role in making her “beautiful little angel” sick. Nurses complained that Mrs. Bush was force-feeding her child with unnecessary seizure drugs that made her vomit. Independent specialists conducted extensive tests on Jennifer and found no evidence of digestive disorders. When Jennifer was separated from her mother for treatment at a Cincinnati hospital, the starved child feasted mightily on pizza, hot dogs, and chocolate bars. Meanwhile, authorities discovered that while the Bush family claimed poverty because of Jennifer’s health problems, they had splurged on trips to the Bahamas and Disney World, house remodeling, and a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
Dr. Eli Newberger, a professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, concluded that nothing in Jennifer’s extensive records indicated “that the child has any underlying illness except the suffering she has had to endure as a result of efforts to portray her as needing urgent care.” Jennifer was removed from her family in 1996 and has been healthy ever since.
…[In February 2000], Kathleen Bush – Hillary Clinton’s once-proud and loud sister in arms — was sentenced to five years in prison on two counts of aggravated child abuse and one count of fraud. She also pled guilty to a separate count of welfare fraud for misrepresenting $60,000 in assets on Medicaid forms. “There was probably more abuse in this single case,” lead prosecutor Bob Nichols noted, “than in all of the child-abuse cases I’ve prosecuted in my life combined.”
Mrs. Bush’s behavior is an extreme example of the Nanny State opportunism to which Hillary Clinton has dedicated her life. It’s enough to make you sick.
From Jennifer Bush to Graeme Frost, the Democrats have gladly welcomed the opportunity to use these kids as ideological human shields in the war over health-care entitlements. Ignoring the perils of poster child abuse, the mainstream media have served–and continue to serve–as willing propaganda tools. Perhaps it is time for the Left and its mouthpieces to take a political Hippocratic oath: The next time they contemplate exploiting youngsters in their drive for socialized medicine, they should Do No Harm.
***
Dr. Howard Dean doesn’t give a damn about doing more harm than good. I just got a mass e-mail from Dean pimping Graeme Frost’s story and pushing for the CHIP veto override:
This morning, President Bush rejected health care for children. Now it’s time for Democrats to reject President Bush.
If we can get 2/3 of Congress to stand up to President Bush, we can overturn his veto on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program — a program that provides health insurance for millions of kids.
We need your help to get those votes.
We’ve set up a simple tool that will allow you to write a letter and send it to your members of Congress instantly. Send your Senators and Representative a message telling them to stand up to George Bush:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
George Bush made a cold political calculation this morning. He could have signed this bi-partisan bill into law, or he could have pandered to conservatives who didn’t want to see the Children’s Health Insurance Program get the funding it needs.
He decided to pander — and millions of kids will suffer for it.
What makes this veto worse is that George Bush will spend billions of dollars in Iraq, some of it on contractors like Blackwater and Halliburton, while denying millions of children needed doctors’ visits or medicine here at home.
On top of that, all of the Republican candidates for president support his veto.
Democrats are in the majority for a reason. Send a message to your Senators and Representative and let them know why that is:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
This past week, Graeme Frost, a 12 year old from Baltimore, Maryland, delivered this week’s Democratic Radio Address.
Graeme is a brave young man. Three years ago, his family was in a serious car accident. Graeme was in a coma for a week, suffered severe brain trauma, and had to re-learn how to eat and walk.
Graeme is alive today because of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. As he said last weekend:
“My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but the hospital bills were huge. We got the help we needed because we had health insurance for us through the CHIP program.
“I don’t know why President Bush wants to stop kids who really need help from getting CHIP. All I know is I have some really good doctors. They took great care of me when I was sick, and I’m glad I could see them because of the Children’s Health Program.”
Families like the Frosts need your help. You can hear Graeme talk about his experience and send a message to your Senators and Representative right here:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
As a doctor, I’ve seen our country’s health care crisis first-hand.
I’ve seen parents that have to wait for their kids to get dangerously sick before they could take them to a doctor. I’ve seen parents struggle over important medical care decisions because they didn’t know how to pay for it. And I’ve seen parents left in poverty because they had no other choice.
But you don’t have to be a doctor to understand the importance of health insurance for our nation’s kids. Just ask any mother or father whose child has been sick, and they’ll all tell you the same thing: that there’s nothing more important to them than making sure their kids are healthy.
As governor of Vermont, 96% of the children in my state had health insurance. That’s the sort of commitment our country needs — and the sort of commitment President Bush doesn’t have.
The American people elected a Democratic majority last fall to stand up to President Bush’s misguided priorities. Remind your Senators and Representative just what the American people stand for.
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
Sincerely,
Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.
***
More blog reax…
Brutally Honest
STACLU
Kathy Shaidle
And the Influence Peddler points to a case of phony health care poster child abuse. Not the first time.
A reader e-mails:
I understand that you can not respond to all the emails you receive, but I wanted to share briefly my story. In 2005 my husband had a major car accident, and no longer can do the job he used to do. We adjusted to life without the income(we now make around $25,000.00 vs $55,000.00)
Fortunately we were fairly debt free and have done well. But we can not afford to have health care out of the paycheck.So we have no health insurance. I do not cry nor do we use the system at all. We just work to keep everyone healthy. We did have a son, fracture his ankle last summer at 10 pm and had to use the ER. We explained we had no insurance and we would be paying cash. It was easy enough to explain and made 4 payments of 175.00 each.
I am really angry with those on the Left suggesting that those of us without insurance are complaining that we need something. I do not feel poor, nor do I feel the need for another to carry my family. So in light of all those who make 50,000.00 and more that complain…they do not speak for me and mine.
I believe that this ploy towards socialized medicine is one of the main reasons along with the open borders that are successfully bringing our nation down.
Thank you for you and the work you so, I have followed you a long time and appreciate all that you do to bring awareness upon those that the MSM refuses to spotlight.
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- THE DEMOCRATS’ MANIPULATION OF KIDS « Texas Hold ‘Em Blogger
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- Dems pick “poor” child to deliver health care message « Crush Liberalism
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- 12-year-old: Fair Game for Goons « Bad American
- Pickerhead :: Pickings from the Webvine ::October 9, 2007
- Michelle Malkin » Democrat poster-child abuse, the nutroots’ pushback, and the continued campaign to silence the Right
- Where is this magical 500$ insurance? « Cowardly political musings…
- A Second Hand Conjecture » Enough Already
- Cyberstalking, Felons and Investigative Reporting, Oh MY! « his vorpal sword
- BizzyBlog » ‘Poster Child Abuse’ Indeed
- Intimidating Kids at deschutesdemocrats.org
- JABbering Stooge :: With Apologies to Everlast :: October :: 2007
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- PoliBlog ™: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts » The SCHIP/Graeme Frost Brouhaha
- When the SCHIP hits the Fan « The Fruit Fly
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- Republican swift boat attack on a 12 year old boy - Political Hotwire
- Who’s Afraid of Sick Kids? at deschutesdemocrats.org
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Categories: Graeme Frost, Health care
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Are you sure you’re not an illegal alien? /sarc
There … I think I fixed that for you …
Michelle,
I just read a lot of the comments on the ThinkProgress post, filtering through the name-calling of Republicans and the indecent remarks made about you. I found this little nugget. There is just a little bit of strangeness in this particular comment made:
Quote for the day from a liberal: “The facts were no one’s business.”
(You gotta feel sorry for them just a bit.)
Further proof that libs will never let anything get in the way of their view of the world … especially not “facts” …
Abortion hits my conscience, but the left says it must occur.
Right to property hits my conscience, but don’t think for a second that my left leaning local government wouldn’t seize everything I own if they thought they could make more from it.
Freedom hits my conscience, but it seems that the left would rather see millions imprisoned, starved, raped, and murdered for the crime of holding opposing beliefs, while their leftist buddies get rich of “oil-for-food” scams rather than confront evil where it stands.
It’s simple: everyone must make sacrifices for what they believe is right in life.
Why is it wrong to ask this and other families to sacrifice for the health and well being of their children, but alright to ask my family to sacrifice more of our hard earned money and time to support their choices and mistakes?
Why is the answer to all of life’s problems in my wallet? What is the left going to do when I decide, like Mr. Frost, that I do not want to be burdened with these responsibilities, and I choose to no longer be a productive husband and society member?
If they didn’t want to be questioned, they shouldn’t have volunteered to be spokesmen for the SCHIP program.
Personally, I can sympathize with the family’s health problems. I’ve been in and out of the hospital myself several times over the last four years, and am disabled as well. However, I still pay for my own private health insurance.
Jim C
Rusty:
It’s still socialism. Taking from those who have giving to those who don’t. Notice the operative word there - TAKING.
Just another little question - if 35B is “a drop in the bucket” - how much is too much. You seem to think “well it worked because they insured 7 million”. Would you say it worked if it insured 225 million?
Please understand this too. Federal money/state money. I have left pocket money and right pocket money. I use left pocket money for lunches and right pocket money for “frivolous” things. I keep wondering how come I don’t have enough money for lunches…I only overspend out of my right pocket. Money is money - I don’t care which pocket it comes out of. Or maybe your pockets work differently.
A bigger point missed..who brought the family out?
On October 8th, 2007 at 11:29am, Rusty said:
The number of uninsured American’s is unacceptable, beginning with Mr. Frost. He chose to be self employed. He chose not to insure his family. The fact is, many of the uninsured are so, because they chose to be.
So it turns out these kids are going to private school on scholarship?
If that’s the case, how incredibly irresponsible to publish this post without mentioning that.
Well aactually Rusty, the scholarship is just a rumor at this point…
Many people are also choosing to have operations oversees where the medical care is better and cheaper. I think some entrepenuer came up with insurance for this too. Let the Dems pay for that also.
Rusty
It didn’t say “scholarship” it said “tuition discounts” … it also now comes out that the grandparents may be paying for the school but that is also still unverified … as for irresponsibility …
first, I find it irresponsible to always be sending out someone as a victim and trying to blame all the problems on someone else …
second, using kids in the hope of preventing questions about the real agenda is reprehensible in my book …
third, if no one had bothered to question the whole story as presented then none of those “facts” would have ever come to the forefront … which is what the liberals in congress were wanting to have happen …
fourth, get used to it …
the days of “Don’t ask Don’t tell” are over and it’s time to quit putting out stories that are being misrepresented to try to further the liberal agenda thinking they won’t be looked into completely …
I’ve seen a few articles on other blogs and in the traditional media on the family in question. Michelle should probably have done a bit more digging prior to posting her blog. Looks like the kids are on full scholarships to the private schools, and the home was purchased 15 or so years ago for less than $75k.
conservativesRus, just for the record, every democracy I know of around the world (including the US obviously) is almost by definition at least in part socialist from an economic standpoint. The exercise then becomes finding the right blend of free market principles and “socialist” redistribution of wealth to provide necessary services for the common good and a safety net for those in need. Obviously, then, the fundamental difference between a progressive and a conservative on fiscal issues is the way in which such blend skews. I tend toward fiscal conservatism, but am realistic enough to recognize that there are some areas where the private sector isn’t very well equipped to provide the necessary goods and services efficiently either because of the sheer magnitude of the area in question or the fact that, for whatever reason, all of the actual costs of producing the good or service cannot be fully captured in the free market (free riding, etc.). Lots of times, the most efficient blend in a particular area ends up being a public/private partnership.
dakine … well reasoned post … but I lived in the Baltimore area in the late 80’s and I can guarantee you there were no homes of any type available then in Maryland for $75k … so whereever that number came from my personal experience in the area says it is on the dubious side … as for the others blogs and such with the information on the schools … that has only come out since the questions started … it was not available or offered freely …. it has had to be researched and uncovered … and that is only the money side … the fact the kids are attending the private schools was not incorrect … nor the fact that the family misrepresented their ability to buy their own insurance …
dakine: Don’t disagree with you that every country around the world has some level of socialism. That doesn’t make socialism a good model. There are those things that are “necessary” because it is required to have an orderly society. Any more is not necessary. The USA is already way past the “necessary” level. My opinion is that the “necessary” level is very low - and I certainly can’t support any expansion. BTW - I consider most government jobs a type of socialism.
dakine said:
I liked the way she did this story. She kind of put everything on the table to look at. She’s been updating the story as she goes. It beats waiting all day for a “cleaned” up story. I like to see it unfold, because I get the story faster than the MSM. I know she’ll update any inaccuracies. MM reported that the house was over valued, and she also reported about the school being paid for. My bottom line: I’d rather get raw information that gets updated, and corrected as she goes along. It’s quicker. And I can click on the links, and look up information myself. At the end of the day I’ll be more familiar with the story, so that I can smash my libb buddies in a friendly debate.
DL and conservativesRus, good points guys. I’m probably a bit further over on the free market/”socialism” blend than you Rus, but I understand what you’re saying.
jose, you make a very good point, and I hadn’t really thought about it that way before. The new media takes a bit getting used to, but the more I think about what you say, the more it makes sense. Most other blogs of this nature operate similarly it seems. Good post.
Wait a minute…the Frost family live in Baltimore, he is an Electrical Engineer and they live on $45,000 a YEAR???
I’m sorry kiddies, but I call Shenanigans on that. There is no way they can live there, six kids (I guess 5 now that one is married) and his job and only be making and living on that much.
If he is the sole bread winner, and he is only working somewhere that only pays him that much, PLUS the firm doesn’t even offer medical…then he is one of the biggest idiots I have ever heard of.
No wonder he votes Democrat. You can’t teach him anything.
Anyone else think this claim is bull? I mean besides the $1200 claim.
Idiots. Now not only the parents are foolish but the grandparents are too. If your kids aren’t healthy they can’t go to school.
So perhaps that would mean they should prioritize health insurance for their grandkids over private school tuition?
RetFireman
According to the reports and links MM gave us he is in business for himself (Frostworks) and his wife works since earlier this year for a medical publishing company the name of which we stilll don’t know. Prior to that she was supposedly the bookkeeper for his business. A lot of pretty sketchy information that is still being researched and developed.
The “ABC News story” link is dead.
I don’t know RetFireman. I don’t see much honor in attacking these people personally. I realize that they put themselves out there by appearing in this ad, but… Attack the Democrats by all means for the usual sleazy political stuff that politicians of both parties regularly engage in, but maybe we should just leave these folks alone.
mngirl
truth be known I am still waiting for the final results on the private school thing … first it was on the parents, then it was “full scholarships”, then it was “reduced tuitions”, and now the grandparents pay for it … who knows what will come out next on that phase of the story …
Just to back up my claim, I went to Monster.com and looked up what the basic salaries are for an Electrical Engineer. I based his job off of the wedding announcement from the Times.
Baltimore, MD
Electrical Engineer I
25th Percentile-$51,564
Median- $56,022
Electrical Engineer III
25th Percentile-$72,260
Median-$81,688
75th Percentile-$91,073
This does not include bonuses and benefits. The basic full paycheck for the EEIII is:
Bi-weekly Gross Pay $ 3,141.85
Federal Withholding $ 632.21
Social Security $ 194.79
Medicare $ 45.56
Maryland $ 145.58
Net Paycheck Estimate $ 2,123.71
So again I say…SHENANIGANS!!!
Then again, considering the party we are talking about…big surprise, right?
75th Percentile- $60,370
RetFireman
OT … check the recruiting thread … I put the street address you needed in there …
as for this guys degree … I am not certain from the information about his self-employment that he is actually working as an Electrical Engineer … but I still have my doubts about soem of the other things just as you do from having lived in the area in the late 80s …
Dakine, i do not agree. What you are saying equates to allowing anyone to say whatever they want, and no one can question them. We have to take what they say at face value because hey…they put themselves out there and we chould just never question whether or not what they said was the truth.
Does that sound right to you? If these people came out, talking against the Pres and his plan and decided to use themselves as an example, then they need to be truthful and have whatever they say backed up with facts. It is not as if someone came out of nowhere and just decided to use these people. They put themselves out there, and thus they need to realize that they will be placed under the scrutiny of the American public.
If they lied, it is not our fault that they got caught misrepresenting themselves and the state which they claim to be in.
Like I said, I was using the wedding announcement in the Times. In it, it listed him as an Electrical Engineer. However, add that to his wife supposedly working as well, and I find it hard to believe that they are making and living on a mere 45K a year.
Mark Steyn is, as always, an articulate and persuasive writer. But why, for God’s sake WHY, is it being left to Mark Steyn and Michelle Malkin to make these obvious arguments against this back-door socialized medicine program. WHY ISN’T THE REPUBLICAN LEADERSHIP DOING IT? I am so bloody tired of those worthless, trifling fools in their paneled offices sucking on their cigars while the world outside their doors burns. I am fed up with their non-response to attack after attack from the far left, a strategy they’ve obviously adopted from GWB, and boy has it been an effective strategy for him.
Our basic freedoms are under attack — in plain sight — with the likes of Henry Wack-job using MY MONEY to have his staff amass files on Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity and Fox News so he can SHUT THEM DOWN, Stalin style. Where in the hell are the Republicans in Congress? Why haven’t they DEMANDED that Waxman cease and desist. Has one Republican in Congress called the Democrats out on this fake poor kid whose well-off parents “can’t afford health care”? They may not have the majority, but they’ve got access to the goddamn House and Senate floors, for God’s sake. PLAY SOME FREAKIN’ HARBALL YOU IMPOTENT, INCOMPETENT FOOLS!
I want to see EVERY ONE OF THEM on the floor of their respective chambers, with veins popping out of their foreheads as they rail against this filthy grab for power by the left. I want them to be angry, indignant, appalled — all of the things I am. And most of all, I want them to be fuc*ing RELENTLESS. I want them all to say the same thing, over and over, everywhere they go, every interview they do, every speech they give on the floor until IT becomes the narrative. Who in the hell is advising these useless buffoons? Who is running the party’s message delivery? It’s a goddamn train wreck, and I am sick of it. If the 08 election were tomorrow, I would absolutely keep my ass at home. What would be the point in voting for these incapable, ineffective, dispassionate morons? I mean what would the point of voting be at all?
Really, WHERE IN THE HELL ARE THE REPUBLICANS?
Maybe RetFireman, but alot of attacks are being made based on admittedly sketchy information. If they qualified properly in Maryland for the S-CHIP benefits, then I’m not sure why they deserve to be attacked personally. Maybe naive for letting themselves be used. Reasonable minds can obviously differ on this though, so you’re clearly entitled to your opinion. I’d rather see an intelligent discussion regarding the substance of the proposed S-CHIP expansion and the health care issue in general. I don’t have much patience for either party, so all this “gotcha” back and forth kind of bores me.
Hallelujah and pass the collection plate!!
Well, i guess that makes you just that much better than all of us then. God forbid we should want truth and facts, but maybe those are just too banal and boring for some. Never let it be said that the truth and honesty was a thrill ride.
I’ve really enjoyed discussing the S-CHIP legislation and the balance of socialism and the free market in a large democracy.
Still pretty uncomfortable with the attacks on the Frosts. No one seems to take into consideration the possibility that his company is failing and that, just maybe, he can’t afford the health insurance. If he’s the owner and he’s only pulling in $45,000, times must be tight. And if that’s the case, the children here deserve a safety net.
Or the guy is a deadbeat. Who knows. The problem is that MM correctly said legislation by anecdote is risky. Well, it’s a double-edges sword. Criticism by anecdote is just as troublesome. Debate the S-CHIP legislation on its merits. Leave the Frosts out of it until the facts become clear.
Give ‘em hell, Michelle.
Shouldn’t ‘they” be arrested for child abuse?
Rusty, I just feel that if times are so tough that they can’t afford insurance, then they shouldn’t be buying expensive vehicles and remodeling the house. Priorities, and all.
Use my taxes all day long to pay for healthcare for people who NEED it(legal citizens only, of course). But it sounds as though these folks are trying to push the more needy aside.
Additionally if their combined income is 45K, then they have some serious issues with their employment.
Aloha guy you are right. My wife and I of 28 years have no kids but we have certainly paid a ton to support everybody elses kids. We have had to continually pay for a government school system with its watered down curriculum and socialization agenda. Now we are told to lower our Carbon Footprint so they can have more kids. I see the new schools having to waste money on football stadiums (even though these can be shared), and I see them build large parking lots for high school kids (even though we pay for school buses to go right by their house). We pay for their child care and have to watch them drive by in car pool lanes to get there.
The absurdity is how does it help the kids if it is their PARENTS who need the medical care.
Why does no one address the real point???
These people are being put up as people who would be hurt by President Bush’s proposal for CHIP. The FACT is that they would still qualify for free insurance for their children under the plan Bush has proposed.
So why are they being propped up as the poster family?
If the same accident happened to the same family today, they would be covered under the current plan, without even expanding coverage or funding.
My objection to the bill is having the taxpayer provide health care for people in households with clearly middle to upper middle class income ($62,000 or more) and expanding a children’s health care plan to adults capable of getting a job with health benefits. This is trying to backdoor government-run health care.
Yet when talking about raising taxes, suddenly those same people are “rich.”
RetFireman, what exactly is your malfunction? Let me stipulate to the following, so you can get that enormous stick out of your ass: (i) I do NOT think I’m better than you or anyone else here; and (ii)I don’t think I know more than you or anyone else (well, that’s a lie, but you get the idea). Deep breathing exercises might help.
Sorry bub, but when you choose to insult people, claiming that the politics of both sides are boring and that the facts of this issue do not matter and are also boring, you set yourself up to appear to be superior to everyone else. Your own statement above is proof to that fact. So why you even choose to comment on something you find so boring is beyond me. When you insult people, prepare to have that come back at you. And you do that quite a bit.
Have a nice day RetFireman.
RetFireman…I believe I mentioned the same concerns you have in my #90 post. Maybe I posed them a little different but basically the same.
It’s a distraction to turn this into a debate into whether or not the Frosts should be covered under SCHIP.
The point is, they ARE covered under SCHIP at present. The question should be, do we really need to expand SCHIP to cover people even further up the wealth scale than the Frosts? That’s the question relevant to the proposed legislation and veto override.
Rusty
That is great advice, but you should be giving it to the Democrats. They are the ones who made the Frosts the poster children for their legislation, not us.
I pay more than should be possibly allowed for top notch health care coverage, and frankly it still sucks. Insurance companies are doing all they can to cut corners, including not paying for legitimate benefits to make up for the the lazy uninsured, who leach off the system. Government interference will make it worse.
Its obvious by what we have found out that the Frosts can sell property or one of their vehicles, but that would be the RESPONSIBLE thing for them to do. Now because they need help paying for their poster-child kid, they come begging for help. Too late. Deal with the consequences in life like the rest of us do.