Graeme Frost and the perils of Democrat poster child abuse Updated
Update 7:30pm Eastern. Mark Steyn is uncowed by the unhinged…
The Democrats chose to outsource their airtime to a Seventh Grader. If a political party is desperate enough to send a boy to do a man’s job, then the boy is fair game. As it is, the Dems do enough cynical and opportunist hiding behind biography and identity, and it’s incredibly tedious. And anytime I send my seven-year-old out to argue policy you’re welcome to clobber him, too. The alternative is a world in which genuine debate is ended and, as happened with Master Frost, politics dwindles down to professional staffers writing scripts to be mouthed by Equity moppets…
…So executive vice-presidents’ families are now the new new poor? I support lower taxes for the Frosts, increased child credits for the Frosts, an end to the “death tax” and other encroachments on transgenerational wealth transfer, and even severe catastrophic medical-emergency aid of one form or other. But there is no reason to put more and more middle-class families on the government teat, and doing so is deeply corrosive of liberty.
And, if the Democrats don’t like me saying that, next time put up someone in long pants to make your case.
The Baltimore Reporter recalls some more dubious Democrat health-care poster people.
Update 5:30pm Eastern. A word for all the faux outraged leftists accusing conservative bloggers of waging a “smear campaign:” Asking questions and subjecting political anecdotes to scrutiny are what journalists should be doing.
When a family and Democrat political leaders drag a child down to Washington at 6 in the morning to read a script written by Senate Democrat staffers on a crusade to overturn a presidential veto, someone might have questions about the family’s claims. The newspapers don’t want to do their jobs. The vacuum is being filled.
If you don’t want questions, don’t foist these children onto the public stage.
Fight your battles like adults and stop hiding behind youngsters dragging around red wagons filled with your talking points.
—
Bob at InsureBlog does some more reporting (now defined as “stalking” by the unhinged left):
The Frost family has a combined annual income of about $45,000, said Bonnie Frost. She and her husband have priced private health insurance, but they say it would cost them more per month than their mortgage - about $1,200 a month. Neither parent has health insurance through work.
$1200 per month for a family of 6 in Baltimore. Really? What are they smoking?
A check of a quote engine for zip code 21250 (Baltimore) finds a plan for $641 with a $0 deductible and $20 doc copays.
Adding a deductible of $750 (does not apply to doc visits) drops the premium to $452. That’s almost a third of the price quoted in the article. Doesn’t anyone bother to check the facts?
Apparently not.
Question: How many working poor couples get wedding announcements in the New York Times?
Update 2:50pm Eastern: I just returned from a visit to Frost’s commercial property near Patterson Park in Baltimore. It’s a modest place. Talked to one of the tenants, Mike Reilly, who is a talented welder. He said he had known the Frosts for 10 years. Business is good, he told me, though he characterized Frost as “struggling.” Reilly was an outspoken advocate for socialized health care without any means-testing whatsoever and an insistent critic of the Iraq war. Despite all that, he did agree with me that going without health insurance is often a matter of choice and a matter of priorities. Or maybe we were speaking two different languages.
I also passed by the Frosts’ rowhouse. There was an “01 - 20 -09″ bumper sticker plastered on the door and a newer model GMC Suburban parked directly in front of the house. I’ve seen guesstimates of the house’s worth in the $400,000-plus range. Those are high. But Mark Tapscott’s point remains: “[P]eople make choices and it’s clear the Frosts have made choice to invest in property and a business, but not in private health insurance. The Maryland-administered version of the federal SCHIP program, by the way, does not impose an asset test on applicants.” More here.
A few more notes: Allah points to this ABC News story on the Democrat reaction to blogger questions. Harry Reid spokesman Jim Manley complains: “This is a perverse distraction from the issue at hand” and accuses questioners of attacking children. No. Debating the threshold for government subsidies is the issue at hand. I disagree with some bloggers’ characterizations of the family as “Yuppies.” But as so many of the commenters in the thread below point out, there are countless families of far less means who reject the notion that government-subsidized health insurance for themselves and their children is a God-given right.
On the issue of the Frosts’ children attending the $20,000/yr Park School, Manley states the students have near-full tuition discounts. It’s not clear when or how long they’ve had those scholarships. For the record, Reilly, who has known the family for 10 years, told me it was his understanding the children’s grandparents paid the bill.
***
The most buzzworthy story on the right side of the blogosphere this weekend concerned young Graeme Frost, the 12-year-old child severely injured in a terrible car accident that also left his sister with permanent disabilities. Graeme Frost was propped up by Democrats desperate to avert the president’s veto of S-CHIP legislation, which would have massively expanded the government health care entitlement. The Dems are trying to muster up enough votes to override President Bush’s veto. They’ve scheduled a vote for Oct. 18. The boy gave the Democratic radio address last week, written for him by Senate Democrat staffers, and made several Beltway lobbying appearances with top Dem leaders. (Listen to Graeme’s address here.) The accident was horrible. The children deserve much sympathy and compassion.
But legislation-by-anecdote is a tricky thing, and should only be done when the anecdotes actually hold some water.
It turns out–as it does with so many health care stories pimped by the Democrats and the MSM–that there is much more to the Frosts’ story than meets the eye.
The family is not as destitute as the MSM has made them out to be. FreeRepublic member icwhatudo asks the tough questions the mainstream media won’t ask. Like why a “working family” in need of government-subsidized health care can afford to send two children to a $20,000-a-year-private school. And more (go to the post for more embedded links):
In a Baltimore Sun article the family claims to be raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. “Bonnie Frost works for a medical publishing firm; her husband, Halsey, is a woodworker. They are raising their four children on combined income of about $45,000 a year. Neither gets health insurance through work.”
What the article does not mention is that Halsey Frost has owned his own company “Frostworks”,since this marriage announcement in the NY Times in 1992 so he chooses to not give himself insurance. He also employed his wife as “bookkeeper and operations management” prior to her recent 2007 hire at the “medical publishing firm”. As her employer, he apparently denied her health insurance as well.
His company, Frostworks, is located at 3701 E BALTIMORE ST. A building that was purchased for $160,000 in 1999…
…One has to wonder that if time and money can be found to remodel a home, send kids to exclusive private schools, purchase commercial property and run your own business… maybe money can be found for other things…maybe Dad should drop his woodworking hobby and get a real job that offers health insurance rather than making people like me (also with 4 kids in a 600sf smaller house and tuition $16,000 less per kid and no commercial property ownership) pay for it in my taxes.
Mark Steyn and his readers do more digging here and here.
Don Surber: “Interesting that public schools aren’t good enough for their kids but public health insurance is.”
Glenn Reynolds: “If business owners with half-million-dollar-plus homes and kids in expensive private schools now count as ‘working families,’ does this mean they’ll get tax cuts?”
Rick Moran: “I know of several independent business people who have excellent health insurance coverage for their entire family by purchasing it through group plans at associations like the National Association of Independent Businesses (NFIB) or other small business groups. In fact, most people join those organizations just to get the benefit of being able to purchase health insurance in a group, which lowers the price considerably. I daresay that If Mr. Frost can afford a $400,000 house he could easily find private health insurance to cover his family. But that’s not the point. The blatant dishonesty of the Democrats in using a 12 year old as a prop in a political soap opera whose family’s financial situation was misrepresented should be exposed for the cheap trick it was. If the President had dared to be that dishonest, the press would have been all over him. Instead, the media has played along with the Democrats and will make it appear that the President and Republicans are heartless monsters for denying little Graeme and his family the benefits they deserve. A pretty low manuever by the Democrats.”
It’s par for the course. 
The use of Graeme Frost was part of a larger left-wing strategy to hide behind children and use them as cannon fodder in their losing bid to get S-CHIP passed into law. Predictably, the reflexive left is already lambasting those who scrutinized the Frosts’ case. “Class warfare?” Blame Democrats, not Republicans for that. If you can’t see the inherent unfairness in forcing people with lesser means pay for the health care of those with greater means who choose to forego health insurance to pay for other things (houses, cars, real estate, private schools), your partisan blindness is incurable.
The Frosts pushed their children into the political arena. They were joined by other parents who loaned their tots to the leftist cause for a full-press on CHIP. Children were trotted out last week pulling red wagons with signs like this…
…and recording ads like these…and these…
The Democrats have learned nothing–zip, nada, zilch–from Hillary Clinton’s disastrous exploitation of little Jennifer Bush to promote her socialized health care scheme. Let me take you on a short trip down memory lane.
In 1994, Hillary helped turn the ailing girl into a national prop. As I reported several years ago, it wasn’t merely a case of Democrat legislation-by-anecdote run amok. It was a case of notorious poster child abuse:
…Jennifer’s mother wrote a widely-publicized letter to the White House. “Do you know what it is like to choose between purchasing groceries for the week to feed your family or buying needed medications for your chronically ill child?” Kathleen Bush asked. Pale and wan, young Jennifer suffered from unidentified chronic digestive problems and myriad ailments from birth. She had her gall bladder, appendix, and fragments of her intestines removed. Those organs were replaced with a tangled cable of feeding tubes that constricted Jennifer’s 43-pound frame. Surgeons threaded a catheter into the girl’s heart. After 200 hospital visits and 40 operations, the Bush family had racked up medical bills worth more than $2 million.
Puzzled doctors and nurses scratched their heads over Jennifer’s 33,000-page medical file. The media ran maudlin profiles of the family. With TV crews in tow, saintly mother and sickly child headed up to Capitol Hill to campaign for Clinton-sponsored health insurance mandates.
Politicians unquestioningly embraced the Bushes and their tale of need. Hillary cuddled with seven-year-old Jennifer for the cameras; their mugs were splashed on the pages of USA Today and newspapers across the country. Shamelessly coached, Jennifer gave the Clintons a lucky silver dollar “to bring you good luck so everyone can have good insurance.” In another pre-programmed, kiddie-sized soundbite, Jennifer dutifully told the press: “I pray every night that I can get better - and that everyone can have insurance.”
Jennifer’s mother reveled in the relentless media attention and generous outpourings of public sympathy. Dropped by the family’s health insurer, out of a job, and in allegedly dire financial straits, Mrs. Bush poignantly appealed for government relief from the burden of Jennifer’s mysterious illness. “It’s strangling us,” she told one reporter.
But who was strangling whom? Several years before Hillary deified Mrs. Bush and elevated Jennifer to poster-child stardom, suspicious medical professionals had already begun questioning the mother’s role in making her “beautiful little angel” sick. Nurses complained that Mrs. Bush was force-feeding her child with unnecessary seizure drugs that made her vomit. Independent specialists conducted extensive tests on Jennifer and found no evidence of digestive disorders. When Jennifer was separated from her mother for treatment at a Cincinnati hospital, the starved child feasted mightily on pizza, hot dogs, and chocolate bars. Meanwhile, authorities discovered that while the Bush family claimed poverty because of Jennifer’s health problems, they had splurged on trips to the Bahamas and Disney World, house remodeling, and a new Harley-Davidson motorcycle.
Dr. Eli Newberger, a professor of pediatrics at Harvard Medical School, concluded that nothing in Jennifer’s extensive records indicated “that the child has any underlying illness except the suffering she has had to endure as a result of efforts to portray her as needing urgent care.” Jennifer was removed from her family in 1996 and has been healthy ever since.
…[In February 2000], Kathleen Bush – Hillary Clinton’s once-proud and loud sister in arms — was sentenced to five years in prison on two counts of aggravated child abuse and one count of fraud. She also pled guilty to a separate count of welfare fraud for misrepresenting $60,000 in assets on Medicaid forms. “There was probably more abuse in this single case,” lead prosecutor Bob Nichols noted, “than in all of the child-abuse cases I’ve prosecuted in my life combined.”
Mrs. Bush’s behavior is an extreme example of the Nanny State opportunism to which Hillary Clinton has dedicated her life. It’s enough to make you sick.
From Jennifer Bush to Graeme Frost, the Democrats have gladly welcomed the opportunity to use these kids as ideological human shields in the war over health-care entitlements. Ignoring the perils of poster child abuse, the mainstream media have served–and continue to serve–as willing propaganda tools. Perhaps it is time for the Left and its mouthpieces to take a political Hippocratic oath: The next time they contemplate exploiting youngsters in their drive for socialized medicine, they should Do No Harm.
***
Dr. Howard Dean doesn’t give a damn about doing more harm than good. I just got a mass e-mail from Dean pimping Graeme Frost’s story and pushing for the CHIP veto override:
This morning, President Bush rejected health care for children. Now it’s time for Democrats to reject President Bush.
If we can get 2/3 of Congress to stand up to President Bush, we can overturn his veto on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program — a program that provides health insurance for millions of kids.
We need your help to get those votes.
We’ve set up a simple tool that will allow you to write a letter and send it to your members of Congress instantly. Send your Senators and Representative a message telling them to stand up to George Bush:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
George Bush made a cold political calculation this morning. He could have signed this bi-partisan bill into law, or he could have pandered to conservatives who didn’t want to see the Children’s Health Insurance Program get the funding it needs.
He decided to pander — and millions of kids will suffer for it.
What makes this veto worse is that George Bush will spend billions of dollars in Iraq, some of it on contractors like Blackwater and Halliburton, while denying millions of children needed doctors’ visits or medicine here at home.
On top of that, all of the Republican candidates for president support his veto.
Democrats are in the majority for a reason. Send a message to your Senators and Representative and let them know why that is:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
This past week, Graeme Frost, a 12 year old from Baltimore, Maryland, delivered this week’s Democratic Radio Address.
Graeme is a brave young man. Three years ago, his family was in a serious car accident. Graeme was in a coma for a week, suffered severe brain trauma, and had to re-learn how to eat and walk.
Graeme is alive today because of the State Children’s Health Insurance Program. As he said last weekend:
“My parents work really hard and always make sure my sister and I have everything we need, but the hospital bills were huge. We got the help we needed because we had health insurance for us through the CHIP program.
“I don’t know why President Bush wants to stop kids who really need help from getting CHIP. All I know is I have some really good doctors. They took great care of me when I was sick, and I’m glad I could see them because of the Children’s Health Program.”
Families like the Frosts need your help. You can hear Graeme talk about his experience and send a message to your Senators and Representative right here:
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
As a doctor, I’ve seen our country’s health care crisis first-hand.
I’ve seen parents that have to wait for their kids to get dangerously sick before they could take them to a doctor. I’ve seen parents struggle over important medical care decisions because they didn’t know how to pay for it. And I’ve seen parents left in poverty because they had no other choice.
But you don’t have to be a doctor to understand the importance of health insurance for our nation’s kids. Just ask any mother or father whose child has been sick, and they’ll all tell you the same thing: that there’s nothing more important to them than making sure their kids are healthy.
As governor of Vermont, 96% of the children in my state had health insurance. That’s the sort of commitment our country needs — and the sort of commitment President Bush doesn’t have.
The American people elected a Democratic majority last fall to stand up to President Bush’s misguided priorities. Remind your Senators and Representative just what the American people stand for.
http://www.democrats.org/FightForKids
Sincerely,
Gov. Howard Dean, M.D.
***
More blog reax…
Brutally Honest
STACLU
Kathy Shaidle
And the Influence Peddler points to a case of phony health care poster child abuse. Not the first time.
A reader e-mails:
I understand that you can not respond to all the emails you receive, but I wanted to share briefly my story. In 2005 my husband had a major car accident, and no longer can do the job he used to do. We adjusted to life without the income(we now make around $25,000.00 vs $55,000.00)
Fortunately we were fairly debt free and have done well. But we can not afford to have health care out of the paycheck.So we have no health insurance. I do not cry nor do we use the system at all. We just work to keep everyone healthy. We did have a son, fracture his ankle last summer at 10 pm and had to use the ER. We explained we had no insurance and we would be paying cash. It was easy enough to explain and made 4 payments of 175.00 each.
I am really angry with those on the Left suggesting that those of us without insurance are complaining that we need something. I do not feel poor, nor do I feel the need for another to carry my family. So in light of all those who make 50,000.00 and more that complain…they do not speak for me and mine.
I believe that this ploy towards socialized medicine is one of the main reasons along with the open borders that are successfully bringing our nation down.
Thank you for you and the work you so, I have followed you a long time and appreciate all that you do to bring awareness upon those that the MSM refuses to spotlight.
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- When the SCHIP hits the Fan « The Fruit Fly
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- Who’s Afraid of Sick Kids? - CommonDreams.org
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- Republican swift boat attack on a 12 year old boy - Political Hotwire
- Who’s Afraid of Sick Kids? at deschutesdemocrats.org
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Great research–and a fantastic stroll down the bone-chilling confines of Memory Lane.
Why the hell don’t we read about this in the NYT or see a full feature on 20/20, et al.?
/rhetorical question
I have to wonder why is it so difficult for Democrats to find people in real need of insurance if there are supposed to be so many of them?
Perhaps it has to do with the need for a good, dramatic narrative. After all, when confronted with a disaster such as a major illness, most people find ways to solve the problem. Often such solutions involve major efforts (like getting a second job, or obtaining a second or third mortgage), and major trade-offs.
But if John Q. Public can mannage on his own, without having to beg the government for relief, then what’s he god for as far as the Liberals care?
That’s one possibility. Am i close to the mark or way off? any comments welcome
Never wanting to correct one of my heros but…
What will they do for their “Dream Act”? Parade 1000 children who can’t afford private schools?
Good correction. I’ll make it.
Is MM saying it’s Democratic hype that lots of families can’t afford heath insurance? Maybe it’s the Democrats’ fault that health care is so expensive?
Liberals invented the SCHIP program to distroy the US health care system because they hate America?
Well, well, well. The Frosts have a home that is twice the size of mine, worth at least 3 times what mine is worth, own other properties, pay 4 times what I pay for schooling in order to have two children in expensive private school, and they do not have health insurance? I spent 20 years in the HR business, and I can tell you that this story is not unusual. Time after time, I saw people do three things:
1. They want and obtain a large home in an exclusive neighborhood, an expensive SUV along with a luxury-brand car, a large diamond on the wife’s hand, the latest in technological gadgets, and the latest in fancy vacations.
2. They then have no money left over for health insurance, and/or
3. They fail to have any sort of savings account so that money is available for emergencies.
What do you expect from Dingy Harry Reid?
I’m also equally disturbed by the Republicans wimpy communications on this issue….all issues for that matter. What is wrong with the Republicans? Other than senators like Tom Coburn, they all seem to be wimps. Republican leadership is at an all time low. Minority leader Mc Connell has no passion. He’s weak!
Funny how the Dems proposal starts with Middle Class and higher bracket Americans as “The poor”.
lgm - see my post #6. And then re-read the story. Did you not get that this family has somehow managed to have a fairly expensive lifestyle in spite of their “limited” income?
There are affordable health insurance options available if people have their priorities straight. It is unfortunate that many people want the luxury lifestyle at the expense of ensuring their family is adequately covered for medical emergencies. Why is it people think that paying $50 (or more) for a haircut or manicure, or $100 or more for a massage, or $2000 (or more) for the latest “home entertainment” system, are necessary expenditures, but family health insurance is not?
If Michelle isn’t saying that it’s the Democrat’s fault that health care is so expensive, then I will say it. Anytime you get the government involved in paying for something, it quickly starts to increase in price because the government has deep pockets and people know they can go there and get more money.
Liberals invented the SCHIP program as a way to start down the path to Hillary Care - and that will destroy the US heath care system.
As for why they did it, lgm gave as good a reason as any.
With regards to something Michelle said; the left doesn’t need to take a Hippocratic oath for two reasons: Hippocratic is a long word and they probably don’t understand and 2) they have already taken a Hypocritical oath which negates any other kind of oath thay might profess to taking.
It is shameful that the Democrats use children for propaganda. This particular kid would qualify for disability and get health insurance through medicare too. He would not even qualify for the S-CHIP program because he would qualify for better benefits under Medicare for Disability for the rest of his life.
The whole debate is disingenuous and is more evidence of what the Democrats want to do. Tax and spend because they ‘know how to spend your money better than you do’.
I blame the parents and the Left. After all, the Left is just doing what it usually does…the parents; however, ought to be frogmarched off to jail.
lgm, my brother is 27 years old and is able-bodied and very intelligent…does he have a job and subsequent medical insurance…no and whose fault is that? Bush, republicans, etc…?
Before you exert all of your energy running to the defense of those without medical insurance be sure you know what you are defending…
Why are the Republicans not putting this information out front and center? Time and time again I see them missing opportunities to correct the “misinformation” put out by the dems to win sympathy. On the Senate immigration debate I saw Dianne Feinstein on the senate floor talking about the tragic illegal immigrant family deported and separated from their children in Calif who “had” to leave their kids behind to make sure they got a good education, etc. and how the children cried for their parents, etc. What she didn’t tell you was that they left the kids with an aunt to live in their house in the US worth several hundreds of thousands of dollars that the father had paid for from his job where he worked as a licensed electrician. Small detail, not only did he have false (stolen) ss papers, he also had worked in the US under a false electrician’s license. The judge in their case told the “grieving parents” to sell their house (nearly paid for) and take the kids with them where they could live a good life in Mexico from the equity in the sale of their house, but they wouldn’t do it. The story was in the California press and widely available but the Republicans didn’t point out the true picture in counter to Feinstein’s woeful tale.
It is wonderful how Congress wants to spend billions on the children, but continues to forget about their promises to veterans. When I joined up in 1975 I was promised free medical, dental, and eye care for life if I did my 20 years. I did 25 and have to pay to use the medical healthcare plan for retirees. Military healthcare facilities have been gutted so badly I’m lucky to be able to see a healthcare provider for an annual check-up to get another prescription for my medications for Addison’s Disease. What hacks me off is I work on an Air Force Base and have to wait weeks to see someone. I can’t get a prescription from the base pharmacy and end up paying more to get them off base. I could pay for the Military Retirement Delta Dental Plan, but it costs way too much with very little return on investment. We use my wife’s dental working though Wal-Mart because it is a much better deal and I also pay extra for eye care through Civil Service insurance plan. Bad enough many veterans have been lied to (have really come to expect it), but now on top of having to pay for my healthcare I get to pay for other people’s children’s healthcare too if this bloated bill passes. Don’t get me wrong I’m grateful for the limited healthcare we are able to afford through the various means we have chosen to invest in. It beats having no coverage. What scares me is this attempt at slowly moving to a Socialized Medical Program will be as disastrous for the Federal budget as the encroaching Social Security crisis about to hit. The largest bill our tax dollars pay is for “must pay” entitlement programs. Once again thanks again Michelle for doing all the research and reporting the facts to keep us in the know. Time to send more e-mails to Congress to try to beat this thing.
It’s for the kids…who can say “no” to that?…I can, pick me.
Even the photo that the Democratic Party used for their Bush hates kids post was internet shopped!
Being an ‘illegal immigrant’ and getting deported is nothing different from being an ‘illegal alien’ and getting arrested for murder or rape.
The Graeme story is typical left wing propoganda and I agree with many that they need to be exposed just as the phony soldiers need to be.
The Dems are the ‘lowest’ form of life using kids just like Al Qauda??? Talking points are the same. When will our Republican constituents grow some b__ls?
Boomer, you always state your position clearly and effectively. I too will rev up the email machine…
Thank goodness for true consummate professional journalists like “icwhatudo”.
Michelle, I mean really. I agree with you on nationalized health care. I’m also against it 100%. But do you have any idea how pathetic it looks to quote anonymous screen names… from Free Republic of all places, the extremist far-right’s version of the Democratic Underground? Even if the guy (girl?) is correct, that sort of thing only detracts from your credibility.
Totally agree that “legislation by anecdote” is a terrible way to get things done in this country. Anecdotes are incredibly dangerous because it’s incredibly easy to find someone who would be helped by a bad program or someone who would be hurt by a good program.
That being said, S-CHIP is a good program. Bush’s veto was politically tone-deaf and was a great disservice to children. The number of uninsured Americans is unacceptable and this would have helped some of America’s most vulnerable citizens. These children deserve the small investment that Bush refuses to give them.
Gee, so much to say, so little space. First, it should not surprise anyone that the Dems would offer up a case that proves the reasoning behind the President’s Veto. After all, no one in the major media will challenge them.
Second, the idea that someone with exceptional assets would be able to receive low income benefits from the government proves the point that the government is incapable of running an uncorrupted program. Basically, no one cares.
Third, one of the major costs in health care is the insurance costs each health care provider must maintain to protect themselves from lawsuits. It does not matter whether they win or lose, they still have to pay the trial lawyers.
Fourth, as I have posted before, congress writes laws to support lawyers, not people. They are incapable of writing a law that is simply yes or no. They have to write a law in such a way that it can be challenged in court, thus supporting the trial lawyers. The unwritten law in congress is ‘trial lawyers come first’.
No, I am not saying all lawyers are bad. What I am saying is the laws that pass through congress should be protecting the people, not providing income for fellow attorneys.
Have a great day everyone
#17 - Great point. I was just thinking about pieces of $%#$ who hide behind children to manipulate others for their political goals. Seems a bit heavyhanded to compare Democrats/MSM to terrorists, but if the shoe fits…
These people have how many children?
If you want sympathy from me, quit having children you can’t afford to have.
I am a human resources professional by trade and I have seen the SCHIP program gamed in every way imagined. My tax dollars at work. The family in this Democrat display of whining appears to be better off finacially than I am and I manage to buy my own health insurance. My husband is self-employed too and we cover ourselves and our children through the business. We sacrifice other things to do it. Our kids don’t attend private school and we don’t have Granite counter tops. We don’t want the government telling us what to do.
The Freepers make some excellent points. If you have time you should look at their comments. The best ones are about the auto insurance.
that is a heck of a nice kitchen for ‘poor people’. No wonder people from all over the world want to come here. The poor people here live like royalty.
Of course we still need to worry about doing damage to our reputation worldwide. After all, people hate America but can’t wait to come here.
There are sympathetic cases, but the Democrats are stretching their case of being ‘champions of the poor’.
A good program for those who TRULY need it. Simply choosing to spend your money elsewhere and avoid buying insurance does not a needy child make.
In this ‘poster-boy’ instance, the evidence is clear that these parents CAN afford to buy insurance - they simply choose not to and want the government to pay for it.
If you can afford $20,000 for a private school education, you can afford health insurance.
The veto argument is based on the fact that there are many families like this one who are uninsured by choice and have the means to pay their own way -
Tell me why other taxpayers should foot the bill for people like this?
All these stories about health care really get under my skin. One of my daughters is divorced with two kids and because she receives no child support from her dead beat ex she and the kids live with us. Last May she and the kids got dumped off Medicaid as seems to happen at least once a year. When she reapplied and went through all the paperwork she sat and waited a couple of weeks and heard nothing. She called and was told that she had to supply this or that paper which she promptly did. She waited again and still heard nothing so called again and was told that they needed something else so she ran down to the office and supplied whatever it was that they needed and waited again and when she called the next time she was told that she had to start the whole process over again as the 50 days had past since she filed! In the meantime my grandson needed to see a doctor and couldn’t. Turns out that she made too much money to qualify for Medicaid anyway. Which begs the question, How much do you not have to earn to qualify? My husband called our insurance company to see if we could add the two kids to our insurance, but we couldn’t. We would have to go to court and get legal guardianship of the kids to do this! Stupid. Why should the insurance company care if we are paying the bills. My daughter did however manage to get insurance at a small cost through the state so everything is OK there for now. But my point is, if someone like my daughter cannot get her kids on Medicaid because she ‘earns too much’ when she clearly doesn’t, how can people like the Frosts and others be allowed to abuse the system when people truly deserving cannot get the help they need? I guess my daughter could start abusing the system and go after every single program out their available, but we have chosen to take care of our own as much as we can. Why can’t more people in this country do the same thing? Why do people think they can just take and take the money of other hard working people for themselves. Of course there are some truly deserving people out there and they should be helped, but too many are just using the Govt so that they can have more ‘things’and continue to behave irresponsibly because some one else will pay. What most people don’t seem to understand is that these programs are not free, we all pay for them one way or the other. I am tired of paying for everyone else when we are doing the best that we can to take care of our own family.
I think she’s saying why families who can afford large houses, expensive schooling, and other luxuries - because those things ARE luxuries - anre not those need of coverage. And that the MSM conveniently “overlooks” those facts to support socialized medicine.
SCHIP is back door socialized medicine. It begins with legitimately covering those who do need it, and slowly it’s expanded to cover kids in houses with larger incomes. Next, it’ll cover their parents, and soon you have government-run health care without those pesky conservatives fighting for things like choice in care and free market.
That Democrats lie is no surprise.
That they think a family making $83k/year is too poor to pay for health insurance is both disgusting and scary.
I thought Democrats hated rich people. I thought they wanted special taxes on families with large houses, big fancy cars, and hated private education (except, of course, for their own children).
Apparently, that dislike of wealth is not extended to families they can hoodwink into using socialized medicine or the Hollywood elite, who make more and live more extravagently than most of us combined.
My husband and I make what it costs to send the two Frost children to school, yet we afford health insurance. Why? Because we make good, responsible choices. We took jobs that offer health insurance, we do without the fancy home, the souped-up car, the digital gadgets and other non-essential, luxury items in order to provide for our family the things that are important.
Apparently, the Democrats no longer think it’s acceptable to sacrifice those non-essentials. That - no matter what your income - if you choose to spend it on vacation homes and SUV’s, you should be able to and they’ll take care of health insurance.
Wonder how that meshes with Hillary’s redistributionist vision?
The systems already in place do a superior job at a local level than any federal program could hope to.
Apologies - that first sentence should read:
I think she’s saying why families who can afford large houses, expensive schooling, and other luxuries - because those things ARE luxuries - are considered those need of coverage.
I just paid less than $3000 for my wife emergency appendectomy in Haiti. It was a great hospital with great care. Better than the hospital here and about $20,000 dollars cheaper too. You want to fix health care here, get rid of tort law and government in health care.
No different from when they Fawn Townsend, a Raleigh waitress, to give the August 18 response touting the minimum wage increase going into effect.
A waitress in NC would have to make that state’s minimum of $6.15 per hour after tips, so the federal increase to $5.85 meant nothing.
Maybe. If she is a good waitress working for a miserly restarant owner, the federal change allowed him to reduce her base by 70 cents an hour, or $1400 per year.
You can’t spell “disingenuous crap” without DNC.
Well, supporting this legislation because of anecdotes is the same as fighting it because of anecdotes.
Every law, especially something as complex as health insurance, will help people who don’t deserve it. On the other side of the coin, there will be plenty of people who need the help and won’t be covered. Finding that sweet spot, where the legislation becomes a “perfect” law, is impossible.
The S-CHIP expansion is still good law. The program is relatively cheap and it will protect the people who need it. $62,000 a year for a family of four isn’t dirt poor, but it’s far from rich. And these families should be protected if something goes wrong.
I have to disagree with Bush and many comments here. The CHIP program saved my sister’s financial situation, as she has five children, two who are twins and have asthma and leg problems, along with her other son, who has asthma and migraines, and her girls who have hormonal problems. Without CHIP, she would have been out on the street. Now, she tells me, she doesn’t know what to do now that Bush vetoed the bill!
It seems lately that he is vetoing anything the democrats put on the table, which is not all bad, but in this case, and the immigration issue, he’s wrong!
Their new motto should be:
Can somebody explain where the S-CHIP program is supposed to leave off? Not having read the legislation, that point is unclear to me. However, I am inclined to agree with #28 that this is the first step to universal socialized medicine, just the camel’s nose under the tent, so to speak.
@momwrites72
Bush didn’t end the CHIP program. In fact he suggested adding 5 billion dollars a year to it. What he vetoed was an attempt to add much, much more money and millions of more kids to it.
If you want to read the truth, here’s a short article on it. I would suggest that you email the link to your friend too.
Next time, however, you might try educating youself instead of believing what you hear in the MSM. Finding this link only took me a couple of seconds.
While I agree with Bush on this, I take offense to Glenn Reynolds comment. Yes, business owners are working families, especially families like mine whose business is completely family run with no employees and days can be 12 plus hours long. While we make sure we have insurance first and foremost (and at a rate that is ridiculously high) there have been years where business was better and years where it was bad. We work our butts off the same way any family who punches someone else’s clock does only with more risks when the income isn’t steady every month. It’s all about priorities, something most people don’t get as they rack up credit card debt for things they don’t need and then claim they can’t afford insurance.
Rusty, it looks almost two-thirds of all households are below 1.5x median household income (i.e. 3x poverty), and no doubt a much higher number of the (typically younger) households that are raising minor children. This means the government expects most parents to be unable to provide health insurance for their children. It quacks like back-door Hillarycare.
It goes way beyond this entitlement program. We need to look at the Billions the govt gives to a corrupt medical establishment. We need to look at the entitlements we give to the AMA and American Cancer Society. Our govt has created a huge medical monopoly and now just wants to feed it some more.
It is time to look at Alternative Medicine.
What I don’t get is, if it’s such a wonderful thing then why all the smoke-and-mirrors in trying to make it law? Can’t the idea stand on its own merits?
I couldn’t face myself in the mirror if I were selling others something I knew I had to lie about or they wouldn’t buy it. I wonder how the Democrats manage.
I’ll believe that the donkeys are serious about “affordable healthcare” when them embrace medical malpractice tort reform, in the same way I’ll believe they’re serious about “improving education” when they support school vouchers.
What we’re witnessing with S-CHIP is the same song, different verse from the Demo Hymn Book: Like with Social Security, Medicare and Welfare reform, they’re not interested in solutions as much as exploiting the issues for tactical advantage.
29Victor,
Oops…sorry, I haven’t been in the loop for a while, and so haven’t brushed up on my homework. Thanks for posting the link, very helpful. And yes, I don’t agree with the government being our nanny, especially when it comes out of our pockets!
Leaves off at three times the poverty level. The number usually thrown out is $62,000 annually for a family of four. Not poor, but nowhere near totally secure. The proprosed legislation would give an additional $35B to states (S-CHIP is not a federal program…it’s a state program that gets federal funding) to cover the cost. Some of the money will be earned back with significantly higher cigarette taxes (61 cents a pack).
An extra $35B a year is worth it for our children. The bill had bipartisan support and Bush’s veto is kind of baffling. If a GOP majority had passed this he would have signed it on the spot. Methinks our president needs to do a better job picking his battles with the current majority.
Move to Canada!
A family of four is not secure earning $64,000.00 A year??!!!Get rid of them cell phones!!
But aren’t states raising taxes on cigarettes and banning smoking in restaurants and public places in an effort to DISSUADE people from smoking?
If so, then won’t less sales = less tax revenue? Then where will the money come from?
Rusty - until the Democrats start opposing abortion, I will NEVER believe anything they do is “for the children”. It’s for them, in an attempt to force their socialist ideologies on me and the rest of us.
They are anything but altruistic, and anything but concerned with the welfare of children.
If they were, Hillary never would have used the horribly abused Jennifer Bush as a political prop. The MSM would have found someone who truly needed to use the program, rather than a family that clearly has money and makes bad choices spending it.
A family that makes $62k/year should be secure. The only reason they wouldn’t be is if they lived outside their means.
Since when has poor spending been okay?
That the Democrats would exploit the Frosts as a “poster family” possibly how far out of touch they are with reality. On the other hand, they may be reaching out to similar “middle class” families who want “free” health care along with their homes, private education, cell phones, etc. etc.
“If the Frosts feel they deserve it then I must too.”
What’s stunning to me is that — in a nation with “40 million uninsured, most of them children” — the Dems could not find a single legitimate sob story to trot out in front of the cameras. Essentially, they had to hire actors to portray these so-called working poor people. Could SCHIP be a solution in search of a problem?
Ann Coulter called the same “victim” status of the Jersey Girls. I think if nothing else intelligent people will recognize that nastiness of using the “little” people for Democrats to make a point………shameless.
Jaded, you can add Cindy Sheehan to that list as well.
They use these people to stifle debate.
How can we be so mean…like my husband said “what’s ‘good’ for the kids just happens to greatly expand their own powers.”
Isn’t pimping your children a form of exploitation?
That Hillary story reminded me again why 2008 is so important, and how weak the Reps look. (Sigh.)
Let’s see, Dr. Dean (the sreaming machine) sends out a letter which says: “As a doctor, I’ve seen our country’s health care crisis first-hand. I’ve seen parents that have to wait for their kids to get dangerously sick before they could take them to a doctor.” In a state where according to him, 96% of the kids have health insurance? My BS meter is flashing. Can’t the good Dr. take care of 4% of his minor patients who don’t have insurance?
The comment about the parents not wanting public education, but wanting public health care is right on the mark. What they really want I suspect, is not what public medicine would turn out to be, but private medicine payed for by others.
Oops - “screaming”
Everytime I hear someone say we have a health care insurance crisis in America I immediately ask them if they have insurance on their automobiles, house, and personal belongings, etc. If they do, I then ask them why they care more about insuring their possessions than they do about insuring their loved ones. It makes for a very short conversation.
The most distressing part of all this for me is that I’m not seeing the story at all in the MSM, or hearing from Republican lawmakers. I understand the MSM bias, but for goodness sake, I thought news orgainizations sold news. You would think that the media would love to report on relatively wealthy people receiving assistance intended for the poor.
This reminds me of an article in the Seattle Times several months ago about local MD’s that were donating their skills and time to the uninsured who would otherwise not have access to medical specialists. The article focused on the plight of some poor Hispanic non English speaking guy that needed surgery to repair a hand/wrist injury and retain full use of his hand. The uninsured guy was injured at his construction job according to the article. I think that we all can guess the reason why the guy was not using the workers compensation insurance administered by the state of WA that more than likely should have paid for his medical treatment.
Perhaps someone from the IRS should be paying a visit to the Frost’s.
I own a small business and 2 of my 4 employees are single mothers. I made a commitment when starting my business to provide good health insurance to my employees, which we have have done since day one. We are in our third year, hoping to turn a small profit this year and I went from a comfortable living to making less than either of my managers for the last 3 years as I only draw what I need to live on and everything else goes back in to building the business. I live in a 100k house, drive a 7 year old car and make just under the median income for my county. But I still maintain my commitment to providing health insurance. Such hardships are simply part of the costs of starting a business. The first 5 years or so are very hard on the owners in many ways, especially financially.
In short, the Frosts, while running their own business, living in a 400k house (and obviously, if really only reporting $45,000.00 on their taxes, living as they apparently do are hiding a lot of income) and not providing insurance for themselves and their employees can quite simply (and inelegantly stated), bite me. Most employees do not realize the huge tax burden on any business owner. The last thing this country needs for prosperity, is more taxes being paid by those providing the jobs.
/rant
Rusty
Can somebody explain where the S-CHIP program is supposed to leave off?
The vetoed bill would have expanded the cut off to 4 times the poverty level or roughly $83000/yr. It also would have bumped up the cut off age and redefined “child” as a person up to age 25. 25?? Yes you read that right. If you are over 21 and still being defined as a child, then you have bigger problems. The dems covered that by using the “awww poor kid method” of covering the truth only this time they showed that the SCHIP program was already working, and already included such families as Graeme’s. The expansion points in the bill should have been vetoed. Oh did I mention the coverage of illegals?
The biggest thing wrong with this is that the changes the Dems are trying to make happen would be adding many thousands of ADULTS to the eligibiity for this plan … not to mention making it profitable for many families to drop their current health insurance because they would be eligible under these ridiculous income provisions … I saw $62k in someone’s post … but the number I heard was as high as $80k … sorry … that’s not skidrow income in either of those cases … your level of comfort may be better in some parts of the country than in others due to the wide variance in the cost of living between areas … but that is still way above enough to provide your family with insurance …
The $83,000 number is a lie, plain and simple. Bush used that number because New York (remember, S-CHIP are all state programs) asked permission to extend insurance to anyone making four times the poverty level. That number is nowhere in the bill. It’s three times the poverty level, period.
Also, let’s remember that most people being affected by this are going to be making less than $62,000. That number is the ceiling.
And I don’t know where ya’ll are from, but $62,000 for a family of four is real tight in the DC area. It’s even worse in NYC and Boston. I agree that taking care of your children’s medical needs should be a tippy-top priority, but some people just can’t afford it. And that’s a shame and something that should, and can, be fixed.
This bill would bring coverage to an estimated 4 million children. And they’d enroll in private health plans. It was win-win. The only issue here is cost. And $35B is well worth the investment we’re making in those four million children.
On the health care cost issue. 40 years ago my auto insurance cost me $300 every 6 months. Today it still cost me $300 every 6 months, meanwhile my health insurance cost me more than $1000 per month and I know people who pay more than $3000 per month. I have learned to NEVER get a physical, for it will only increase the cost of your insurance.
The problem is simple. I can not go shop for the TYPE of health care I want. Health care is NOT in the hands of the consumer.
If insurance companies were allowed to compete with health ins. like they do with car insurance state to state this problem would go away. Again, the government is the problem and they will never be the answer.
Again, S-CHIP is a good program that was designed to provide health care to poverty children. We already know it is being abused. Instead of fixing the abuses, we are offered a grealy expanded program than not only increases the opportunity for abuse, but adds adults, illegals and persons of higher income to the program.
Fix the program, weed out the abuses and cover the children the program was originally intended to cover.
We should not be paying for the health care of those who cannot get their priorities straight.
Another good program FUBARed by the socialists.
@englishqueen01 about #46
The AP (of all places) has a great article relating to this. The article’s main point, however, is that the large majority of smokers in the U.S. are poor & poorly educated.
So the Democrats are trying to set up a system where America’s poor pay for the healthcare of America’s middle class.
Best. Phrase. Ever.
I hope some smart Republicans pick up and use that phrase to counter the Dem-o-goguery.
Then again, “Smart Republicans” is a contradiction in terms these days, is it not?
To all those who think the Government ought to be providing health care insurance: a) Where in the constitution can I find that health care insurance is a right? b) Would you go to your neighbors to ask for money for a new car? ?no? Then why is it ok to do so for Health Care Insurance? c) Do you advocate “re-imbursing” all those who made a choice to sacrifice in some other area so they could have health insurance? I could go on but I won’t.
I’m not surprised the kids go to a pricey private school. Who’d go to a public school after Al Gore alerted us to the national crisis of students having to sit on stacks of unopened computer boxes on the first day of school?
What a horrible country.
Rusty - May I ask what is magic about the number 62,000? If it’s good for them - why not 63,000? How about 64,000? My point is it’s totally arbritrary. And I dare say - it’s not how much one makes, it’s how they CHOOSE to spend it. There are families making half that much that seem to be able to afford health care, and families making twice that amount who somehow don’t seem able to make it. You always have a choice.
Michelle, I wouldn’t ask you for the addresses, but please stick both their business property and home addreses in http://www.zillow.com. You’ll get a decent estimate of what they’re worth.
The children do not have a choice. Should they be punished for their parents bad choices?
And that’s only assuming the parents are making bad choices. Some may be making bad decisions. But others simply can’t afford health insurance. And that’s unacceptable. Reasonable access to health care should be an opportunity that everyone deserves. This isn’t a new car or starting a business, it can be life-and-death. And families shouldn’t have to choose between trying to build wealth or having insurance. If America is truly the greatest country in the world, shouldn’t citizens be able to have both?
hmmmm … “po’ folks” indeed.
My home is 1500 sq ft, 2 BR. Taxes apx $8,000/yr. Similar homes recently sold for the princely sum of $275,000.
I live on a pension of apx $31,000/yr, and am handicapped.
In 1996 I had an emergency triple bypass. While I eventaully found a surgeon who would accept assignment from my medical insurance plan, the assistant surgeon and anesthesiologist would not. My wife had to ask her sister for a loan to get me out of the hospital (paid back next pension check), and it took me 3 years of monthly payments to pay off the balance of the doctors fees.
Nobody helped me - nor did I ask or expect it. Neither did my parents or my wifes parents. All hard working middle class people who never got anything from the government except a tax bill.
Cry me a river, Frosts.
I know of many, many people
without health insurance. They just do not take from others. They do what they must to take care of themselves and pray that nothing serious happens.
And they DO NOT live in homes, especially, in Florida. And they do not take advantage of the welfare system. They just do not go to doctors for well check ups or any preventive healthcare check ups. Yes, there is a problem in the USA. Healthcare is too expensive but most Americans do not take advantage of the freebies. We do without. Tell the Dems to go to a mall…retail workers do not have healthcare. The businesses make sure of that …part time only so they are not required to offer benefits. Go to restaurants, ask how many of the employees there have health insurance.
The Dems are just stereo typing