B is for birth control
You know how educrats are always criticizing home-schooling for its inability to “socialize” kids properly? The next time they raise that argument, throw this story in their face:
School officials have given the green light to a Portland middle school to offer birth control prescriptions through its student health center.
The plan, offered by city health officials and approved on a 7-2 vote by the Portland School Committee, makes King Middle School the first middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students in grades 6 through 8. There are no national figures on how many middle schools, where most students range in age from 11 to 13, provide such services.
“It’s very rare that middle schools do this,” said Divya Mohan, a spokeswoman for the National Assembly on School-Based Health Care.
Sarah Thompson, mother of a King eighth-grader, was among the committee members supporting the new policy, even though it made her “uncomfortable.” “I know I’ve done my job as a parent,” Thompson said. “(But there) may be a time when she doesn’t feel comfortable coming to me… (and) not all these kids have a strong parental advocate at home.”
Chairman John Coyne opposed the change, saying the roles of social agencies and public schools have blurred over the years. “At some point there needs to be a clearing of the gray lines.” The other “no” vote Wednesday night came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said the consent form does not clearly define the services being offered.
Opponents cited religious and health objections.
Diane Miller said she felt the plan was against religion and against God. “We are dealing with children,” the former school nurse said. “I am just horrified at the suggestion.”
Michael Graham blasts the school and New England liberalism:
Liberal activists supporting the King Middle proposal claim it’s necessary because some of their students are sexually active. Of course they are - you’re giving them sex aids! What are they supposed to do with birth control? Use it to control weight gain? Trade it for Oxy?
The only reason to give 12-year-olds the pill is because they’re having sex. But sex with a 12-year-old is a felony in Maine, so who are they supposed to have this sex with? Other 12-year-olds?
Three cheers for public education “socialization.”
***
Related: In Irvington, NY, O is for Oral Sex.
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I swear to God, any kids I have will be home schooled.
Get the government and elite liberals out of our lives. I am so tired of the ‘lazy’ elites. They apparently don’t have enough time in the day to ‘parent’. So shove it over to the local government. NOT!!!!! Get these sick people out, now!
I dont know how any parent can send there kids to public school anymore.
Thank God my kids are almost grown and live on the East coast…
Today’s Public School System:
1. No Hugging a Classmate Friend
2. No playful smacks on the behind from your classmate friend
3. Classes designed for non-english speaking children, not so much to teach English, but to accommodate their native language
4. No mention of God, even at your Graduation and during your own speech
5. Birth-control prescriptions available through the health-office
6. No wearing the American Flag on your clothes
( For the picky trolls among us - I KNOW that these are not institutional norms among ALL Public Schools, so don’t pile on )
God willing, I will be homeschooling my kiddies.
This is absurd.
Let’s not address the fact that 11 and 12 year olds are having sex…there’s no way to combat that. Just give them sex aids and when they don’t use them, they’ll end up either pregnant, looking to abortion or worse. Abstinence works but they don’t even bother to try to preach that.
It’s all fun and games. Experiment, it’s ok. You aren’t hurting anyone…despicable.
I pray for these kids. Those who proclaim to have their best interest at heart are those who are doing their absolute best to ill equip these kids for road ahead. They do nothing to prepare them for the real world.
Action.Meet.Consequence.
I guess that’s what we have Planned Parenthood for…
More lawsuits to come.
Birth control pills can cause strokes particularly if they smoke or have high blood pressure.
Just imagine the chaos.
They are more concerned with not smoking than not having sex if you’re a minor.
Talk about triple standard here.
Since I am constantly accused of trolling, I just want to add my two cents.
This is nuts.
Condoms in high schools is one thing. Medicine for middle schoolers is another.
What is wrong with this school district, because they should be covering those kindergarden kids also.
I don’t know about birth control pills, but making condoms available in schools have shown no increase in sexual activity.
No child of mine will EVER set foot in an American public school. I’ll immigrate to some place else before I would ever let that happen. But I made my mind up about that long before they started giving birth control to babies.
I was honestly questioning my ability to homeschool (I don’t now, my daughter is 1 year old), but even I can do better than this. Just looking beyond the sick aspect of 11 year olds having sex for a moment: what are pills going to do to their systems? I was under the impression that their bodies were still adjusting, and throwing a cup or two of estrogen into that hormonal stew is not going to make it taste better.
When one looks at what the schools are coming to (see comment 5), what will they be like in 4 years when my daughter is ready for kindergarten? Homeschooling…for the children.
A few observations on this:
1. Do we know what the long-term effects of giving the pill to girls who either haven’t started or just started menstruating are?
2. How will these students’ primary doctors know - when prescribing other medicine - if said medicine will interact with or override the pill, since the parents won’t know and - chances are - the kid won’t tell the doctor.
3. Why isn’t the state reporting this to authorities - especially if the boy who’s having sex with the 11-year-old is older, making sex a crime?
4. Why the HELL are we allowing or teaching 11-year-olds that they need to be, that it’s okay, or that the should be having sex?
This is just wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. Fertility is not a disease, but we treat it as such by innundating our children with strong, powerful hormones.
I repeat, for the umpteenth time, that in 10-15 years we’ll hear stories about girls who are either infertile or have trouble conceiving, and about women who suffer from a slew of pill-related medicial problems (blood clots, stroke, etc….things which every pill commercial mentions).
What’s most ironic is the same people who are so proud of this ‘health issue’ are the same ones who just about have strokes if kids want a candy bar, or bring cupcakes to school for their birthdays, or have a soda. Because, after all, THOSE things are bad for your health.
“I don’t know about birth control pills, but making condoms available in schools have shown no increase in sexual activity.”
Please, 12 year olds can’t even remember to bring their books to class–you think they can remember to put on a condom or take a pill? A pill which, BTW, *must* be taken every single day at exactly the same time of day to be effective.
And - mark this on your calendars, people - I actually agree with Rusty:
I still think we should hit home the importance of abstinence - because no other method of birth control is 100% fool proof.
But at least condoms don’t mess with a girl’s hormonal system.
Let’s see;
-We have “peanut free zones”.
-You can’t bring cupcakes to school anymore.
-School nurses can’t give kids aspirin.
But now kids 11-13 are able to get “a full range of contraceptives”?
When do they start handing out six packs and clean needles in middle-schools, because you know, kids are going to do it anyway?
Why am I in this handbasket and where am I going?
Apologies for the triple post, but this is right.
Also - some antibiotics and other meds interact negatively or negate the effectiveness of the pill entirely.
So if the girl’s primary physician doesn’t know about this, and gives her something that harms or (God forbid) kills her - who’ll be sued?
My money says it won’t be the school…
“I was honestly questioning my ability to homeschool”
Don’t. You can do it. There are several very good organizations, both religions and secular, that can help you. And as for those who say that kids are behind socially from HS’ing, I believe that’s a lot of hot air. It could be true for some, but that’s the parents’ fault not HS’ing in general. I went to university with four classmates who were homeschooled and not only were they socially advanced (they could actually have mature conversations with professors, imagine that) they were also bright as hell. Really smart kids.
Home schooling is a wise alternative for the immediate problem particular parents face;
but, home schooling will not protect society from the associated human and financial costs of the future bad behavior of the kids that remain, and emerge from, the public school (notice the avoidance of the term “education”) system;
nor will it help these publicly schooled kids themselves;
nor will it reduce the amount of tax dollars extorted by the government from taxpayers to pay for and support the public schools.
It is way past time to break the back of the teachers’ unions, and to have a frank, candid, open, national discussion about the best way to educate our children.
I say this as someone who had considered teaching as a career option while in college in the early 70s; who is a product of the public school system (when it still taught, and taught extremely well); and who has two close family members who each taught for ~30 years in the public schools.
It is pretty disgusting what they are doing in public schools today. On a related note, I just got a call from my youngest sister (8th grade) saying that her teacher was telling the class that Christopher Columbus was worse than Hitler. That he killed and tortured more people than Hitler did. She asked what I thought she should do and I told her that she should ask her teacher about it. Any suggestions from anyone about this? It’s not nearly as bad as what Maine is doing, but teaching that Columbus killed and tortured more people than Hitler as a FACT is pretty bad.
The kids can’t find Bangor on a state map. Can’t find Maine on a national map nor find the US on a globe. But they do know the difference between latex and lambskin, the benefits of reservoir tips and ribbed….sorry, the only sex grade schoolers should be having is an occasional hump from an over friendly canine.
It seems to me that a major dissuasive component to teens when thinking about having sex is pregnancy - especially for the young girl.
It would seem logical that if a girl who is considering sexual activity at age 11 or 12 is given a pill and told ‘this is so you don’t get pregnant if you have sex - would be more prone to having sex simply because that worry is no longer valid in her mind.
This does nothing to address the plain simple fact that 11 & 12 year olds should NOT BE HAVING SEX!
I remember reading a book about the American Indians way, way back in the early 60s, that described the numerous vicious wars that various American Indian tribes waged with each other, before any contact with Columbus or any other European.
Does this ring a bell for anyone else?
On October 18th, 2007 at 11:10 am, Rusty said:
Medicine? MEDICINE! You wonder why we tag you with troll? Tell us, what ailment are they trying to cure with this “medicine”? Pregnancy is not a disease.
They are, however, letting the pedophiles know where to scout out victims.
What’s next? Some kids MIGHT be using intravenous drugs so hand our syringes and free heroine?
This country is going to HAVE to come to its senses. We are becoming a laughing stock where criminals get off and we prime victims in grade school.
And Conceal/Carry laws don’t show an increase in violent crime, but Libs oppose those…
Hmmm…isn’t a prescription required to obtain these pills? Do we trust you average school nurse to make this determination?
That’s another deal entirely. If two people, both under the age of consent, have sex, the male is the one who is charged with rape…even if the girl is older! That is crazy!
The more I think about this birth control thing the more it worries me. I know women who have trouble with the pill because of the hormones involved. Hormones + middle schoolers just seems crazy to me.
luthien-
Just a humble suggestion-check out your local bookstore and find the Politically Incorrect Guide to American History.
Its written by a history prof and shows the common misinterpretations going on in the history books. I read it and it gave me lots of ammunition to use against my sociology prof at U of M.
Hope this helps!
What does that even mean!? That makes no sense! All pedophiles no where to scout victims. SCHOOLS! Duh!
That is a seriously lolzy comment, dude.
Incidentally, I support needle-exchange programs as a matter of preventing the spread of AIDS and other communicable diseases. Once you realize people will do bad things and birth control (at least condoms) and needle exchanges don’t lead to increases in these bad things…I think the honorable thing to do is be pragmatic about it.
I just don’t think hormone bombs are especially pragmatic here.
This was my thought exactly. Not to mention that BC pills in some can have horrendous side effects and potention serious problems such as stroke and blood clots.
Besides, if they believe they are on the pill (and heaven forbid they are having sex) they many not even USE the condom. So what about STD’s?
This is ridiculous. When I was twelve I was playing soccer/gymnastics/softball. I didn’t have time for “smelly” boys, much less sex.
The only birth control I was given was the fear of my FATHER if he caught me doing anything remotely intimate with a boy that age. (I believe this is actually when parents sat down and told their kids that having sex at a young age was not COOL but actually A BAD IDEA - ya know?)
Absurd and frightening to say the least.
This is OUTRAGEOUS!
This is nothing short of dangereous for these young girls. Giving hormone treatments to prepubsent and/or girls who have just begun to menstrate without proper medical oversight is INSANE!! Just read the DAMN package insert on potential side effects. Is a child old enough to discern the danger! Do one of them have to bleed to death before someone thinks its a bad idea.
I haven’t even mentioned the moral implications or the fact that any male having sex with them would be considered a pedophile and prosecuted as such.
There are medical consequences to using hormonal replacement therapy (and BCPs are in that category) and its up to each female in consultation with their PCM to decide what they want to do.
As far as condoms are concerned; while they may not have hormones in them, there are other issues that need to be kept in mind ranging from allergies to latex & nonoxanal #9(spermicide), the use of femdoms, and the use of lambskin condoms (they don’t keep out the HIV virus).
One of the biggest issues that hasn’t been mentioned is that there is no parental involvement or notification if a young lady goes to the student health center for a gyn exam and bcp rx.
While some ladies may not feel comfortable going to talk to their parents about this; its the parents that will have to deal with the outcome and emotions from their daughter. They will have to deal with the crying, emotional outbursts, and possibly any physical complications arising out of the school taking their role as parents.
My suggestion (don’t beat me up for being a single guy)—I don’t have any except strive to keep the lines of communication open with your kids, and let them know that you will support them no matter what.
GSP
Their overstepping their bounds here, if my Daughter was involved the feces would hit the air conditioner.
I’m from Maine and nothing surprises me in this state. Second highest tax burden in the country, 8.5% income tax, 5% sales tax, one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country, one of the highest welfare rates in the country. What are people thinking in this state? Oh wait, they are under educated too.
Home schooling is the answer. The public school system is in disarray in most areas of the country.
Okay Rusty. You announce free syringes and who shows up? Intravenous drug users? You bet. You announce to society you think nothing of your minors having sex and who will show up? It is that simple. Most people know what I meant and you will not get an argument from the grown-ups here.
Birth control is NOT medicine. If it were, condoms would fall in the category of medicine. If taking a drug in order to prevent something is “medicine”, we should all be on chemotherapy.
The proponents of this plan (as I’ve heard on the news) seem to be saying the usual, “If they are going to be doing this anyway, we need to make sure they are safe.”
Not for a second do I believe that making birth control available to young girls won’t increase the number having sex (although I’m actually still having trouble wrapping my mind around the concept of 12-year-olds having sex at all.) Two things occurred to me:
1. Girls who may have been holding out on sex for fear of pregnancy may now go ahead and do it.
2. These girls (and the boys who associate with them) may think that it is now safe and okay to have more sex because of the birth control.
I know that they are counseling them and warning them about STDs and whatnot, but how much of that do really think a child of 12 can understand? And do they really comprehend the seriousness of the consequences that can result from sex?
Man, can you imagine finding out you’re allergic to latex that way? Ouch.
I would really appreciate it if the “grown-ups” went up to bat for me, Rusty the Troll, and pointed out how ridiculous this is.
1. Pedophiles are most likely to prey on an acquaintance.
2. Pedophiles do not care if their prey is sexually active or not.
And ants are not drawn to candy.
This takes parental involvement completely out of things. There was a time when a
childyoung woman (teenager at least) had to talk to her parents about these issues. Now parents have no part in this section of their children’s lives.School will teach them about sex, show them how to have safe sex, and give them the contraception. Parents have to be on guard here. I believe parents should know what their children are up to anyway, but this just makes things that much scarier for parents, and for society as a whole.
Come now let’s not have some petty argument over the difference over the use of the term “medicine”.
Maybe “drug” would have been better, but if you are going to tag someone as a troll because of it, well…actually that’s pretty telling.
On topic…
1. Too young.
2. 11-13 year olds should not be getting medicine (heh) of any kind without parental notice.
3. I think a very good point was raised about STDs, which the pill does not protect against. If you are going to make birth control available (which at this age I do not agree with), condoms seems a much easier, safer and better choice.
The fact that our society has to confront these issues is one of the many reasons I have decided I am too terrified to ever have kids (plus they’d cramp my pimpin’ lifestyle).
Rusty, this thread has gone and taken a turn for the worst if you think anyone here is going to defend pedophilia. I won’t purport to know what makes them tick.
Just as soap mentioned, we know what he means…or at least I do.
It’s called wearing a bullseye.
Thanks for the kind words and info, Dumpling!
And I’m with englishqueen…fertility is not a disease! I’m going to put that on a maternity shirt…:)
My mother and my brother are both high school teachers and I have no doubt they would quit in a heartbeat if their schools ever condoned something this despicable. They both teach math…it’s pretty hard to spin math as ‘anti-America’ like it is history (see comment 21). Also, they’re in Nebraska, we don’t have a whole lot of crazies here yet.
Abstinence, anyone!!
I agree that it is far far better for the parents to handle this. My children are younger than 11 but I don’t imagine that they will spend a lot of unsupervised time when they are 11.
I don’t know, though, that there was a time when young teens spoke to their parents about this type of thing. Maybe it was just my upbringing but if I brought up condom purchases when I was 11 with my parents, it would have been a short conversation.
Not in that school, apparently…
The problem is that almost all the studies that have scientifically studied this issue refute your belief.
You can oppose birth control in high school for any number of other reasons without resorting to untrue ones.
Chapoutier,
Cite the studies.
#45 -
I can’t imagine a circumstance where I would have been asking anyone about birth control at age 11! But you’re right, at that age I probably could not have addressed my parents about that issue. Then again, they raised me with the right ideas about sex (abstinence) so it’s not a topic that would have required discussion.
I am admittedly not a good judge of what teens generally do about this, I wasn’t even considering having sex in high school (or earlier, as the case is here.)
Chapoutier, you’re hitting the nail on the head. And, yeah, I’ll use “drug” instead of “medicine” from now on.
On-my-soap-box and 30pcs of silver, it takes lots of bravery to so valiantly speak in an area where you have no idea what you’re talking about.
I especially loved 30’s insistence that I am defended pedophiles:
Look at that last sentence. You’re all but admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about. Bravo!
I agree with soap.
Just as those who want to publish lists of conceal-carry permit holders (thereby putting a target on unarmed, non-permit holders), schools that offer contraceptives put targets on their students - clearly telling pedophiles and perverts that those girls are available for “use” and, chances are, they won’t get pregnant, thereby leaving little - if any - DNA evidence (read: a baby) to put such perverts away.
Unless someone here is an expert in the pathology of pedophilia, can we please stop, on both ends, with any arguments that a school providing birth control would or would not make a pedophile more likely to target that school?
You can argue all day about what your feelings or gut reaction to the question would be, but its all pretty useless, without any facts backing it up.
#47 -
I wasn’t even addressing the issue of sex in high school. I was talking about the King Middle School case. I never mentioned high school, so please don’t insinuate that I am lying (”without resorting to untrue ones.”)
Also, even if I was addressing the issue of sex in high school, please don’t insinuate that I am lying without backing up your claim of untruth.
Augustine,
The WHO, among many others, has done exhaustive studies and meta studies (i.e. studies of all the studies) ion this topic.
Google “condoms school studies increase sexual activity” and see if you can find a study that supports the opposite notion.
Certainly. Absolutely at 11 years old. The challenge though as a parent is that you foremost want teenagers to not have sex, but you also want to make sure that they use protection in case it does happen. Not an easy message.
Analogously, you want to make sure they don’t drink but you also want to make sure that if they do drink that they know not to compound the mistake by doing something like driving a car.
While fertility is not a disease, the family consequences of a pregnant teen are several orders of magnitude more problematic than teen sex.
Well said Dedalus.
This is pure insanity! Putting common sense and morality issues aside (as liberal educators do), the drug companies are also to blame for their campaign to overmedicate children (and adults). Their lobbyists are powerful and their advertising budgets huge. Perhaps the FDA would have the guts to say “You cannot do this to children!” Let children be kids and quit burdening them with fears and responsibilities beyond their comprehension.
JW2,
It was a mistake to write “high school” I meant and should have wrote just “school”. But I stand by my point that availability to birth control has shown in study after study to have no impact on number of children having sex or to decrease the age in which they start having it. See post 54.
Don’t use that word or Soap-Box will sic you.
Precisely. Normally I’d call that a “slippery slope” argument, but in this instance it’s spot-on.
I’ve watched the decline of American public education for decades, and passing out birth control to middle school students is just the latest milestone.
It’s entirely consistent with the state of mental laziness that permeates public education:
- Test scores decline? Can’t ask the kids to work harder, that’s harsh. Lower the standards instead, until you get math exam questions like, “Three baby birds are in a nest. If two of them fly away, how does the third one feel?”.
- Kids not learning to read in elementary school? Pass ‘em along anyway; we don’t want to hurt their feelings by holding them back a year in grade. After all, how are they supposed to learn if they don’t feel good about themselves?
- Kids having sex in middle school? Give ‘em contraceptives. Because teaching abstinence and expecting them to learn delayal of gratification are so, well, you know… judgemental. Whatever else we do, we mustn’t be judgemental (unless it’s to make negative assessments of Western Civilization in general and the United States in particular).
- Students don’t learn what they need to for college? No problem; just keep adding “remedial” programs to the college curriculum until a four-year degree becomes a five-year undertaking.
I’d hate to be going to public schools today. Talk about having two strikes against you before you even step up to the plate: too many schools that only know how to retreat before declining moral standards, and too many parents who want to fob off parental responsibility to the same schools whose attitude toward teaching or demanding students’ self-control can be summed up as, “Aw, f*ck it.” [No pun intended]
There are many things about this middle school incident that disturbs me:
1. The aforementioned problems with issuing birth control pills to someone who is just beginning puberty or is pre-pubescent. It’s actually hard to get the right hormonal levels because the natural levels of hormones in the girl is changing. This could lead to weight gain and emotional problems if it’s too high and the girl risks pregnancy if it’s too low. Not to mention increased risks of stroke and fertility problems the girl might experience later from being on the pill for too many years at a time.
2. The further sexualization of younger and younger children. Next we’ll hear that 7-8 year old girls are “having sex anyway” and maybe we need to get out of their way and instead make sure they’re “safe.” Worse yet, we’ll hear it’s natural and harmless and we shouldn’t be uptight or judgmental about such things. Don’t think for a second that these sexually-active middle schoolers are getting intimate with boys their own age. There is a movement afoot to break down the taboo against sex with children. Don’t believe me? If there weren’t powerful people with money and influence involved in pedophilia, child pornography, etc., we would’ve done away with it by now.
3. Growing government interference with the family. Make no mistake: Marxists want to replace all of the traditional institutions such as the church and the family with the state. That is why public schools are turning into quasi social agencies and why they think they have the right to supercede what parents teach at home concerning moral issues. Or to interfere if the kid’s too fat for their liking. They use the irresponsibility or dysfunction of a few parents to excuse imposing their values on everybody else, like it or not. They really do think they know better than you.
4. Perhaps worst of all, the sheer apathy of the public. I’d bet you that there are a high number of single moms in that school district. More inclined to be socially liberal, they don’t want to discourage their kids from being sexually active but they’re still uncomfortable or too busy to discuss the issues with them, so they will take the easy way out and let Daddy Government do it for them. Then you have the parents who don’t like this sort of thing but they say, “Oh well” and go on with their lives.
The school board is made up of public officials. If the people of that school district had any guts, they’d demand a recall of everyone who voted in favor of this or run against them in the next election. Pulling your kids out of public school to homeschool them or place them in private school instead is a good short-term solution, but eventually the Nanny State will find a way to get to your kids. They hate the idea your kids are escaping their clutches and they won’t stand for it for long.
At the risk of flak:
I am tired of 30-40years’ thinking of, “They’re going to do (fill it in) anyway, so we should protect them.”
My attitude has been that actions have consequences.
If we’d carefully, clearly, honestly told our kids not to do this, that, and the other thing, because it was morally (yes - morally) wrong, or because it
was dangerous (or, heaven forbid, illegal) - especially if we’d fully explained the reason(s) why not to - and our kids had disregarded our advice (and order!), and gone ahead and done a particular thing anyway, in defiance of us….
Well, we would have tried to remedy the situation and repair the damage.
But, at the same time, we would have told our (kid)s, “Serves you right; we told you not to. Now, maybe you’ll listen to us and take what we say seriously?”
Providing clean needles to drug users (at taxpayers’ expense), providing condoms and birth control pills to reckless, irresponsible kids (sorry, sex isn’t something to start having just ’cause one has reached puberty) (at taxpayers’ expense) is not going to solve problems.
It sends the message, “Go ahead. Do anything you want. We chumps will bend over backwards to protect you from your bad behavior.”
I’m having the same thoughts about the new HPV vaccine.
If one is careful and responsible about sex; if one is choosy about one’s partner; in other words, when, where, with whom, etc; one has very little risk of contracting AIDS or cervical cancer.
Period.
Abstinence until one is mature enough to handle the terrific emotional effects on interpersonal feelings (I’m talking way beyond the simple physical act and pleasure - hell, as the song goes, even birds and bees do it) is an extremely effective choice.
Condoning and tolerating - almost to the point of encouraging and rewarding - bad behavior, as these efforts by leftists over the past decades have shown, will only result in, guess what…more bad behavior.
Another example of leftists yelling, “Help! My house is on fire! Quick, more gasoline!”
But don’t let leftists hear you say something like that, unless you want to be branded judgmental, a prude, a troglodyte, etc.
OK.
Fire away.
Dedalus #55
Last I checked, being 11 years old did not constitute being a teenager.
Parents have their work cut out for them, there is no doubt about that. However, this article is about schools making the unilateral decision to “educate” children about sex…then give them birth control and condoms to boot. Where are the parents in all this?
Yeah, and some parent’s idea of making sure their children are safe, while drinking underage is to provide them with the alcoholic beverages, stating “at least I know he/she is safe while doing it.”
There are consequences to having sex. Birth control pills and condoms do not aggregately address them. Abstinence does!
Rusty used troll (#9). I just agreed if he were to call birth control “medicine”. That is trollish.
I did not call him out on pedophiles flocking to an area when you announce “our children can have sex at 11 and we will provide birth control too”. Rusty wanted to make an argument and I just said the grown-ups here knew what I meant.
WallBuilders have an interesting video (can’t remember the name but I will find it) with stats that show since introducing condoms in high school, 134 of 1000 girls became pregnant (average across the USA). Since abstinence was introduced the number dropped to 4 (in areas where abstinence was allowed in schools).
This is a lesson every kid should learn of course but, as has been pointed out, as with sex and drugs, the potential consequences of a bad decision are really really really bad. I’d rather my (hypothetical) child learn this lesson when he touches a hot stove or gets a stupid haircut.
Not to get too off topic, but the number of adult women who have HPV at some point is staggering (somewhere around 80%). So its not just a few dumb kids making a bad decision.
Twenty years ago when we started home-schooling our son, we were laughed at, lampooned and scorned. Fast-forward to today and we’re hailed as oracles. Get your kids out of public school before it’s too late. Our son is now a navy officer proudly serving in the war on terror, our two daughters are highly accomplished young women. All three of our kids are well-rounded, articulate and a very respectful of their elders. Drugs, sex, lousy friends and ‘feel-good-about-yourself’ education have been avoided. If you love your kids and you can read, you can home-school.
Sounds like you wanted some feedback. Here’s a qualified response that comes to mind.
If clean needles reduced the incidence of HIV and Hepatitis without increasing the number of IV drug users, the rationale for using tax payer money for clean needles would be the net-reduction in medical costs and, more importantly, protecting those who unknowingly associate with an addict and become infected.
Are you helping a junkie doing something wrong, sure. Are you protecting other citizens from the spread of disease, yes.
Thank you. I’ve been in healthcare for about 27 years. It’s just when someone starts throwing up studies, I will challenge them. Just know though, that a google search does not constitute a thorough scientific “lit search.” That’s not to say it doesn’t have some value.
Sorry, Chapoutier # 68 was the answer to your response to me in #54.
granite (#62)
I don’t know how to type out applause, but Bravo! I think you’ve spelled it out perfectly.
And it’s up to the parents to teach their children these things. But how can they do that with the schools blocking them at every step?
Ditto to the ‘nth degree!
Navy Mom (#66) -
Any pearls of wisdom for potential future home-schoolers?
Of course not, but it does provide a nice starting spot. I don’t think my boss would be too happy if I took off for the medical school library.
And of course those who perform studies have biases and statistics can be manipulated, but based upon my (admittedly shoddy) research, the overwhelming number of studies seem to support my point. I would be happy to look at studies to the contrary.
Thanks for the response. A few points:
1.) We can agree that 11 isn’t a teen. My point was that 11 year olds shouldn’t even be part of a conversation on responsible sex. I also used the term teen (too) broadly since 13 year olds and 19 year olds are not the same, but brevity is a consideration.
2.) You and I probably agree on the “role of government” issue here (i.e., public schools shouldn’t be handing out birth control without parents knowledge).
3.) Yes there are consequences to having sex. My point is that using pregnancy as a penalty for sexual irresponsibility impacts not just the sexual partners but their families. If they have a weak family then it potentially punishes the broader society.
“So its not just a few dumb kids making a bad decision.”
You’re right.
Unfortunately, it’s many, many, many more than a few dumb kids making a bad decision.
“Are you helping a junkie doing something wrong, sure. Are you protecting other citizens from the spread of disease, yes.”
How about protecting other citizens by society’s, the courts’, and government’s getting serious about stopping illegal drugs?
Yes, some people, somewhere, at some time, in most?/all? societies have been drug users.
But, I don’t think those societies condoned or encouraged drug use, or exerted themselves to protect users from the consequences of their actions.
If we’re serious about fighting and controlling (we’ll likely never eliminate) illegal drug use, we’ll need a sea change in the attitudes of the entertainment industry, the courts, our intelligentsia, academia, much of our media, schools….
Gee! Does it sound to anyone else like I’m ticking off a list of the sectors of culture and society that are overwhelmingly populated by - gasp! - leftists?!?!
Add this to the “Good reasons to send your children to Government school” file.
Speaking of studies…please remember the saying:
“There are lies;
and then there are damned lies;
and then there are statistics.”
Chapoutier,
Boss probably wouldn’t like, indeed.
For me though, as you pointed out that there are other points to argue from. These steps by the school are medically dangerous, and morally irresponsible.
I have to assume that my friends in college who agreed with me that the life described in Brave New World was horrific all vote Republican now. It seems that the Democrats want to change our society so that it’s just like that novel.
In that novel, no child was raised by parents, children were encouraged to start having sex with their cohort as soon as possible, adults were stigmatized for not being promiscuous, and police showed up and sprayed angry crowds with pleasure-inducing drugs instead of tear-gas. If that’s not the Democrats ideal future, I’ll eat my hat.
School board members are ELECTED. These irresponsible, fascist people need to be thrown out as soon as possible and new officials elected who will not commit this grave assault on parents and children.
Granite,
Well said, my friend. I use that line all the time. That’s why I am looking for the studies themselves, not articles about the studies.
There’s a great book called, “How to Lie with Statistics” by Darrell Huff. I think the original copyright was 1949. It’s a great book on how to talk back to statistics. A very short book. For anyone interested.
#79
That’s funny, that novel came to my mind right away when I heard the age of these kids.
dedalus,
1)Fine
2)Schools shouldn’t be doing a lot of things, and yes, this is one of them.
3)I agree.
The government doesn’t know how to fix a problem without creating one that is much bigger.
Abstinence works but the focus has shifted from that too “educating” children about sex and the age at which they are receiving this information is getting younger and younger.
We have to draw the line somewhere.
Agreed.
My point there is that even is a woman waits till marriage to have sex, her risk of exposure is high, just based on the prevalence. Nevermind that the vast majority of people have more than one sexual partner during their life.
And really, the argument that the risk of HPV, which one specific type of STD, one most girls aren’t probably aware or worried about because its direct consequences are much less than say, AIDS or herpes, that could potentially someday lead to cervical cancer is any sort of deterrent to sexual activity is really spurious.
Assuming the vaccine is otherwise safe (I have no idea of the studies on this one), what’s the harm vs. the potential to potentially wipe of a form of cancer?
I don’t even think this is in the same league as a discussion of birth control in school.
JW2 #72
1. Read Mary Pride’s how-to books for the nuts-and-bolts of homes-schooling.
2. Subscribe to Homeschooling Today magazine for inspiration.
3. Visit Cathy Duffy’s website for help in choosing the best curriculum suited for your child.
4. Join (or start) a local home-school support group.
5. Give your family a heads-up without bashing the public schools. Make it a very positive approach and you can win over skeptical loved ones.
6. Once you start home-schooling, stick to a schedule but recognize that this is not ’school-at-home’; you’re building a relationship with your kids through the joy of learning.
7. Teach them to love America. In today’s uber-chic culture, that is SOOO last century, but make sure they understand the incredible blessings of liberty and freedom. Acquaint them with the Founding Fathers and the great leaders of the past. Our kids know the history of America, warts and all, and are genuine patriots.
8. They need to know God. Take them to church or synagogue and walk the walk at home.
9. Model an excellent marriage. The happiest kids are the ones whose mom and dad are committed to each other and don’t bail out when things get tough.
10. Pray for effective leadership in America.
These are things that have worked for us over the years. We’re by no means perfect, and it was mostly trial and error, but we have zero regrets.
I meant “even if a woman” in first sentence.
And I apologize for the italics gone wild.
chapoutier
Welcome back. I have not seen you post for some time (as you usually went off on me).
Why yes, yes it does. And you can substitute the current topic in place of “illegal drug use” and get the same result!
Al in St. Lou # 79:
Yep.
Read Brave New World a few years ago.
Sounds exactly like what leftists (Democrats, after all) want for our society/culture.
Everyone should read that book (written in the 30s, I believe).
The title is, after all, a not uncommonly used expression (?idiom?, ?metaphor?) that has become a part of English.
Hell, it was even the title of a Steve Miller Band album and song back in ‘69.
“We’re travellin’ fast
From a dream of the past
To a Brave New World
….”
Er, sorry - got carried away.
Navy Mom -
I don’t know anything about the book, magazine, or website, but that all sounds like wonderful advice. Thank you. I am saving that list.
Couldn’t agree with you more on this point.
On-my-soap-box #88:
Exactly!
You’re right. Which is why the majority of “family values” organization supported it. This isn’t about STDs. It’s about eliminating cancer.
Rusty said:
Yeah, like you talking about children when you don’t have any.
Until you read the side effects. The other point is the government wants to force our daughters to take a vaccine with no know long term effect before they are allowed to go to school. Suppose your daughter wants to save herself for guy who does the same? Is it right to force her to take this vaccine? Also, if they made a vaccine for AIDS, will we all be forced to get it even though we are not a risk i.e. my wife and I are in a monogamous marriage and disease free? As to this topic, what are the long term effects of placing a girl as young as 11 on this hormone? Can she make a reasonable decision about the risks at that age?
This is the very definition of a slippery slope.
“On-my-soap-box and 30pcs of silver, it takes lots of bravery to so valiantly speak in an area where you have no idea what you’re talking about.”
I missed that way back up in thread.
Good pickup, angryoldfatman (your words, not mine!).
Seems that it didn’t take too long for an ad hominem to be launched, did it?
angryoldfatman:
I’m referring to the item you quoted!
No sense in lying to myself.
Re: HPV or any other mandatory vaccine.
It was my understanding that a parent could elect not to vaccinate their child for religious reasons. Is this correct? I actually thought there was a Supreme Court case on this.
I just listened to someone defending this, a caller named Carole from Maine…on Fox. 11 year olds are watching Hannah Montana. The idea that the state should take over for the parent is bizarre!!! if the parent is doing such a poor job, that their 11 year old is sexually active, take the child out of the house…note I said house because it couldn’t possibly be a home.