B is for birth control
You know how educrats are always criticizing home-schooling for its inability to “socialize” kids properly? The next time they raise that argument, throw this story in their face:
School officials have given the green light to a Portland middle school to offer birth control prescriptions through its student health center.
The plan, offered by city health officials and approved on a 7-2 vote by the Portland School Committee, makes King Middle School the first middle school in Maine to make a full range of contraception available to students in grades 6 through 8. There are no national figures on how many middle schools, where most students range in age from 11 to 13, provide such services.
“It’s very rare that middle schools do this,” said Divya Mohan, a spokeswoman for the National Assembly on School-Based Health Care.
Sarah Thompson, mother of a King eighth-grader, was among the committee members supporting the new policy, even though it made her “uncomfortable.” “I know I’ve done my job as a parent,” Thompson said. “(But there) may be a time when she doesn’t feel comfortable coming to me… (and) not all these kids have a strong parental advocate at home.”
Chairman John Coyne opposed the change, saying the roles of social agencies and public schools have blurred over the years. “At some point there needs to be a clearing of the gray lines.” The other “no” vote Wednesday night came from Ben Meiklejohn, who said the consent form does not clearly define the services being offered.
Opponents cited religious and health objections.
Diane Miller said she felt the plan was against religion and against God. “We are dealing with children,” the former school nurse said. “I am just horrified at the suggestion.”
Michael Graham blasts the school and New England liberalism:
Liberal activists supporting the King Middle proposal claim it’s necessary because some of their students are sexually active. Of course they are - you’re giving them sex aids! What are they supposed to do with birth control? Use it to control weight gain? Trade it for Oxy?
The only reason to give 12-year-olds the pill is because they’re having sex. But sex with a 12-year-old is a felony in Maine, so who are they supposed to have this sex with? Other 12-year-olds?
Three cheers for public education “socialization.”
***
Related: In Irvington, NY, O is for Oral Sex.
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On October 18th, 2007 at 1:56 pm,
You are correct - for the time being, you can (not sure about case ruling). If history holds true, I would not hold my breath on how long it will continue.
P.S. Soap raised 4 girls and I have seen everything in Haiti. In areas where you protect children, there is virtually no sexual abuse of children. In areas where it is accepted (as it is in most of Haiti) it is prevalent. I do not need studies or stats to tell me what I see daily.
Laree #100:
Cannot say that I disagree with you!
I’ve been trying to digest this since seeing it on Fox News this morning. All I can say is I am so glad I don’t live in this school district and that I don’t have any school age kids. Chalk up another reason to home school.
Soap, Touche’!
Schools should not be involved with this issue period. If middle schoolers need birth control, it should be an issue for the parents or for personal doctors.
On a side note, some junior high girls take birth control to help regulate the symptoms of the monthly period. My sister and some female friends did this, and none were sexually active……to my knowledge.
If we are not able to afford Catholic school for some reason, home schooling is going to be our way to go.
Buck I, yes, I was one of those girls who as a pre-teen of 11 took birth control pills for that very reason but I don’t think this is what the gang in Maine had in mind. It is really sad that there are sexually active teens at 11 and 12. What is wrong with their parents? Well, many of them are too worried about their own sex life to worry or care if their kid has one while in middle school. I remember a kid I taught when I was 34. He was 17 & his mom was my age. They used to go out to places like Hot Tuna, Duck Inn, the once even saw them in the Officer’s Club at NAS Oceana. A lot of parents think their lives are more important than what their kids are doing. It’s really sad.
Yes and yes. This is about more than you and your monogamous partner. It’s about getting rid of cancer and AIDS. Don’t be so selfish.
As for my “ad hominem” attack:
That’s ad hominem? In response to this:
Emphasis mine.
HE ADMITTED TO NOT KNOWING WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF AD HOMINEM.
Man, I left my two cents saying this birth control plan was crazy, stupid, and wrong. I was agreeing with you all. Yet I still leave with confirmation that talking to the majority of MM readers is useless.
Buck I, the operative point you made was that it was under the care of a personal physician and with parental consultation.
Rusty,
Be careful, while I appreciate your ferver, there’s a medical/legal issue called the “Right of Self Determination” in healthcare. You can’t force healthcare, preventive or otherwise, on individuals.
Besides, you don’t ever vaccinate people who are not at risk for a non-communicable diseases like cancer (predispositions are more genetic than environmental), or for those diseases like AIDS that require more than casual contact to propagate.
In response to #99
Oddly enough, there’s an article up on FoxNews.com right now about parents opting out of vaccinations for their children:
We are sorry you feel that way. Dude, you started at #9 with the idea we would call you a troll and then called Birth Control “medicine” with which I took issue and called it a trollish remark.
Next, you fire of a shot across my bow so I explained myself.
Then you asked the grown-ups to defend you and you called yourself a troll as if my explanation accused you of being a troll (when, in fact, it was the medicine comment).
More people agreed with me and those that did not comment felt it unnecessary either because they agreed, disagreed or just felt like they did not want to be a part of it.
Your response to criticism is to pitch a fit and leave, tell me I am selfish because I cite myself as an example (and I am sure I am NOT in the only monogamous marriage – I was just making a point). You claim I am selfish because I do not wish to be vaccinated just for funsies (nor do I want girls to be vaccinated without their full knowledge of the long term effects). I am selfish? So be it.
Oh, and we all take crud from someone on this site. I have my chapoutier and he challenges me and I can’t say that is not good.
We are all pleased you are in agreement with us – I am sure. If you do not wish to be considered trollish, don’t make trollish statements. If I came out and said Michelle is not a journalist, I should expect to get hammered. Grown-ups do not do such things!
My g/f has declared we’re going to homeschool any children we have. I never really thought about it that much, even though I’ve read all these ridiculous stories over the years. . .be they suspending a kid for bringing homegrown jalapenos to class, or banning the wearing of patriotic attire, or dumping/altering the pledge. . .
But until this moment, I had not read a story that convinced me that schools have gone so far down the wrong road that conscientious parenting could not remedy the damage. Now I am convinced.
Any children I might have will not see the inside of a public school classroom.
Oh, and On-my-soapbox. . .chapoutier is sparring partner too. . .don’t think he’s all yours
I mean, MY sparring partner too. . .
sorry ’bout the triple post.
“Dad always thought laughter was the best medicine, which I guess is why several of us died of tuberculosis.” –Jack Handey
I think the real issue becomes when a parent’s religious/personal beliefs vis-a-vis health care can potentially endanger the health of the child, who is presumably unable to make those decisions himself. And with so many things there are no easy answers or bright line rules.
On one end you have things like birth control for 11 year olds where I think any rational person would agree that is a decision where the parents’ decision trumps. On the other end you have the ones that absolutely refuse to let their dying child receive any medical treatment because they only believe in faith healing.
Smack in the middle of this, I think is the issue of forced vaccination. And I just don’t know where I come out on this.
Oh and Yash and Soap. No need to fight. There is enough vim and wisdom in me to go around.
But as to the “medicine” and “trollish” issue, I really do not think that Rusty was using that word in that context to be provocative. People use medicine and drug as synonyms all the time. I think it was an issue with imprecision in language rather than trolling. But clearly, in the context in which it was used “medicine” is a hot-button.
Can’t we all just get along?
And I did say I would use “drug” instead of “medicine” from now on. One of the problems with long threads is that those things can be missed.
And I refer to myself as a troll due to reputation, not to cause trouble. Although if no one here caused trouble there wouldn’t be as much debate!
Wow….
Quotation & comment:
“‘Rusty, this thread has gone and taken a turn for the worst if you think anyone here is going to defend pedophilia. I won’t purport to know what makes them tick.’
Look at that last sentence. You’re all but admitting you have no idea what you’re talking about. Bravo!”
Another quotation & comment:
“I won’t purport to know what makes them tick.”
“On-my-soap-box and 30pcs of silver, it takes lots of bravery to so valiantly speak in an area where you have no idea what you’re talking about.”
Yet another quotation and comment:
“That’s ad hominem? In response to this:
‘Rusty, this thread has gone and taken a turn for the worst if you think anyone here is going to defend pedophilia. I won’t purport to know what makes them tick.’
Emphasis mine.
HE ADMITTED TO NOT KNOWING WHAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT. THIS IS THE OPPOSITE OF AD HOMINEM.”
Ummm….
Nice try(ies).
However:
I would bet that most folks would consider, “…it takes lots of bravery to so valiantly speak in an area where you have no idea what you’re talking about.” to have a less than complimentary flavor to it.
Sort of how connotation differs from definition when it comes to word meanings.
F’rinstance:
The difference in connotation among:
sly;
cunning;
crafty;
wily;
clever;
astute;
perceptive;
sagacious;
in more or less ascending order of complimentary and descending order of insulting - even though these words could be connected to each other by synonymity (word?).
Come on, everyone knows that, “…it takes lots of bravery to so valiantly speak in an area where you have no idea what you’re talking about.” is an insulting comment.
No, this is not the opposite of ad hominem.
It is ad hominem, pure and simple.
When a person says,
“I won’t purport to know what makes them tick.”;
he most emphatically is NOT saying,
“I have no idea what I’m talking about.”
Comment #107 (echoing a couple of previous comments) looks like a textbook example of spinning and word twisting…
sort of what lawyers do;
sort of what the handlers of a politican do to try to explain away what the politician said, after he’s made a bone-headed or inappropriate comment.
Sort of…confusion, diversion, and - a favorite of mine - obfuscating tergiversation.
Man, I get all goose bumps when I write like that!
It’s all good until someone loses an eye!
So, it’s better to have pregnant middle school girls? Or are we still using the false assumption that available birth control is an incentive to have sex? Unfortunately. girls as young as 12 are having sex. That’s not going to change. Do we want them pregnant, too?
eaglehaslanded -
Do you think whether or not a young girl gets birth control should be a matter for the school to decide?
Again and again:
This problem will be effectively dealt with only when there finally occurs a sea change in our society/culture.
Talking about spending more here or there; or which vaccinations to give; or how to put a condom on a banana; is arguably even more ineffectual than the proverbial rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
JW2 - depends on the parents. Odds are kids having sex at 12 aren’t getting the best parenting. Somebody’s gotta do it. I have friends that work in inner-city schools and many act as surrogate parents for these kids who aren’t getting anything from their real ones, many of which are totally out of the picture.
I havn’t the energy for this one. How about you granite?
Good lord. NAMBLA men want to have sex with minor boys. I guess we should just make all Boy Scout troops part of NAMBLA and save time.
GEEESH
Here’s a radical idea: if a child does something stupid that is caused by bad parenting, maybe the parents should accept the responsibility for it.
I know it’s weird, but something tells me it’s just crazy enough to work.
I don’t understand what this has to do with the unfortunate reality that kids are having sex before they are emotionally ready. Children are having children. What’s the answer to stopping that?
What do you suggest in terms of bad parents taking responsibility? They can’t raise their own kid much less a grandchild. Paying for the abortion maybe? That’s not what anybody wants either. So how do you suggest they “take responsibility”?
So, if there are 12 year olds having sex, we give them all birth control? No. That is a quick fix that NEVER fixed a thing and, in the long run, caused more long term problems then it ever fixed. Your reasoning made me come up with the NAMBLA thing. Since 12 year old boys are having sex anyway, let them all join NAMBLA.
You want to stop it? Arrest anyone having sex with a 12 year old. If a minor is having sex with a minor, arrest the parent. It will not take long to turn things around if the parents are going to jail for their minors having sex (which by the way IS child abuse).
You teach children how to have sex and they will figure it is okay to have sex. You teach them abstinence is the norm IN SCHOOL and at home and they will believe it as well. There will be exceptions for sure. We preached on abstinence and never worried about our girls. If we handed them condoms and put them on birth control they just would have been out having sex. Anyone who argues that point just needs to raise 4 teen girls (all teens at the same time).
On-my-soap-box:
Here’s an attempt:
Re: #120:
“So, it’s better to have pregnant middle school girls? Or are we still using the false assumption that available birth control is an incentive to have sex? Unfortunately. girls as young as 12 are having sex. That’s not going to change. Do we want them pregnant, too?”
An easily recognizable tactic: in fact, a two-fer!; maybe a four-fer!!
Creates a straw man, (”So, it’s better to have pregnant middle school girls?…Do we want them pregnant, too?”
)
Nobody ever said that.
Imputes meanness to the correspondent (see #1 above);
yields instead of resists, (”girls as young as 12 are having sex. That’s not going to change.”);
and - tries to essentially create cognitive dissonance, (”Or are we still using the false assumption that available birth control is an incentive to have sex?”), by assuming (there’s that word again) the given correctness of one’s position:
Who says that it’s false to assume that making birth control available to preadoloescents and adolescents is an incentive to have sex?
This is another in the long line of counterintuitive arguments and positions the left has put forth for decades:
Gun control will lead to less crime violent crime. Yep, sure has…;
Treating law enforcement like a game will keep our streets safe (yes, we need to respect the Constitution; but, when cases are dismissed for ridiculous technicalities, which sometimes seem something like, “When the officer asked for the search warrant, he was not wearing the correct tie to go with his shirt; therefore, the evidence is out.”;
Rewarding bad behavior will not encourage more bad behavior;
Penalizing good behavior, success, and hard work will not lead to a decrease of those things;
Removing stigma and shame for bad behavior will not lead to more of that bad behavior;
Kids will learn more and better if we don’t grade them; if we eliminate competitiveness; if we make them feel good about themselves; again, we’ve all seen how well that’s worked out.
Suffice it to say that the average person’s intuitive conclusion is going to be correct most of the time.
And no amount of sophistry and BS is going to make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, as the old, but accurate, expression goes.
As I’ve said more than once:
We need a sea change in our society and culture.
We need to stress abstinence, and control of passions. There is a time and a place for everything.
We need to recognize the usefulness of shame; it’s what helps keep us behaving properly toward each other.
We need to be less reluctant to take children away from progenitors (notice I did not say parents) who have demonstrated their irresponsilbility and inability to raise children.
Arghh!
I could go and on, but I won’t.
Sorry I took this long.
I agree with much of your post. I do think that there is more to people behaving well than just shame. Raising young adults to understand virtue and giving them aspirations will hopefully make shame less frequent.
Again, the vast studies have shown that to be false, or at least unsubstantiated. I know you can get cynical and question who issued the studies and the methodologies used. Actually cynical is not a good word because one should always consider the source and method of any assertion.
But, given the choice between 1) many scientific studies which are all pretty much in agreement and 2) your hunch, I will go with the former.
Just because something is counterintuitive to you does not make it incorrect.
Precisely! Still not ad hominem since I was attacking his words, not his personhood.
This has been untrue since the dawn of time. “Common sense” is typically wrong. Reason and facts should rule, not intuition. And the facts say that abstinence programs fail miserably.
#132 “Precisely! Still not ad hominem since I was attacking his words, not his personhood.”
What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
#131 “But, given the choice between 1) many scientific studies which are all pretty much in agreement and 2) your hunch, I will go with the former.”
(Sigh…!)
Again, as the saying goes:
There are lies;
then there are damned lies;
and then there are statistics.
#130 Dedalus:
“I agree with much of your post. I do think that there is more to people behaving well than just shame. Raising young adults to understand virtue and giving them aspirations will hopefully make shame less frequent.”
Exactly.
I could not agree with you more.
That is what my wife and I tried to do with our three (who, for a cuppla years, were all teenagers at the same time).
So far, it looks like the hard work paid off.
Speaking of polls, studies, statistics:
For some great yucks, and accurate, biting wit regarding administration, politics, and bureaucracy, check out “Yes, Minister” and “Yes, Prime Minister”, two 80s series from the BBC, (believe it or not).
A rare case of the sequel’s being just as good as the original; they did not miss a beat.
Anyway, there is an episode where the head bureaucrat is explaining how poll results depend on who the pollster is, and on the results the pollster desires.
He asks the questions from two different original positions, so to speak; and, of course, the younger bureaucrat gives virtually diametrically opposed answers to each question.
Hilarious!
I can’t recommend them enough.
They are by far the best, funniest comedy series I’ve ever seen.
Enjoy.
P.S.
And, quite apropos when one considers this thread, and my comments in #129 above.
Granite,
We are not talking about one or two studies or many studies that come to opposite conclusions.
There is healthy skepticism and then there is a denial of reality.
But again, I am sure that those who are against birth control being distributed in school have plenty of arguments they can use without resorting to ones that are just factually unsound.
I am aware that the rate of illegitimate (yes, I will continue to use that term) births has increased dramatically in the last 30-40 years.
For much of that time, there has been a push for “sex education”.
It does not seem to me that “sex education” has been very effective.
Please, no tired, “It hasn’t been done properly,” or “More funding is needed” (again, more gasoline onto the burning house).
Such micro-adjusting ignores the bigger picture, that our culture/society has become a cesspool.
And, (for yet another time) only a sea change in the attitudes prevailing in our culture/society are going to have any chance for meaningful, lasting success.
Another thing to consider:
Despite the trillions - trillions - spent on the “war on poverty” and other government handouts sincve the 60s, we are still told, to this day, that not enough is being spent on government welfare programs; that not enough of individuals’ income is being taken and redistributed by the government.
The two positions stand scant chance of being reconciled; they are very likely based on different, irreconcilable worldviews.
Folks may find the always excellent Thomas Sowell’s “A Conflict of Visions” very interesting.
He traces the cultural conflict between secular humanists and traditionalists back to Rousseau in the 18th century.
Fascinating.
Well worth the read.
I 100% support this initiative (with all respect to MM). Yes, it is parents’ responsibility to teach children what is wrong or what is right. But if parents fail to prevent their children from having sex, at least school will be able to prevent them from unwanted pregnancies. And we, as parents, should be thankful for that.
Great thread for a day when the National Education Association issues a resolution stating “home schooling
programs based on parental choice cannot provide the student with a
comprehensive education experience…”
Birth control for elementary schools — part of a “comprehensive education experience”
#137 - so once again (like SCHIP) we all have to suffer for the “few” who do not take on the responsible role of parthood. I belive only 5 children (emphasis on CHILDREN) at this school are having sexual relations between the ages of 11-12.
SO, why not change the entire system….to sponsor and condone underage sexual activity for those not legal able to have sex, without the parents knowing about it…..
Well, that makes sense…..(huh)?
eaglehaslanded wrote:
Do whatever they did in the 1950’s while all of those 11 and 12 year olds were having sex and getting pregnant.
Your next answer: “But that sort of thing didn’t happen back then.”
My next answer: “Exactly.
They didn’t have the Pill, abortion was illegal nationwide, sex education in school was non-existent, and yet 11 and 12 year olds didn’t have sex and get pregnant.
So much for your conventional wisdom.”
These liberals in Maine and virtually everywhere else make me sick. I fear our country as we know it is pretty much over. And, if by some chance I’m wrong, once Hillary gets in office, it’s really over…we’re all toast.
Lost in this debate is the role played by the School Based Health Care centers or SBHC’s.
These centers dispense treatment and medication without the parents direct consent. The parents sign a consent form that gives the SBHC the right to treat their child. Do you suppose the parents are aware at the time that the SBHC can give out any drug and design any treatment without informing them?
It won’t surprise you to learn that these SBHC’s are big on “children’s rights” and that they push condoms and contraceptives on school districts all over the country.
Here’s a link to their lobbying group in DC:
http://www.nasbhc.org/site/c.jsJPKWPFJrH/b.2554077/k.BEE7/Home.htm
And check out the Board of Directors. It’s a who’s who of liberal activists in the health care field:
http://www.nasbhc.org/site/c.jsJPKWPFJrH/b.2706625/k.BE85/Board_of_Directors.htm
This SBHC movement has been going on beneath most people’s radar. There are now 1700 of these independent health care facilities that receive their money from school boards and state education and health funds. They are not accountable to parents for the treatment they give their children due to doctor-patient “confidentiality” in most states.
Expect to see more of this in the future.
Wow!
Is there anything we can do to try to stop them?
Little known fact - teen pregnancy rates were at an all-time high in the 1950s. Of course, girls got married earlier in those days, which may help explain the fact that teen pregnancy peaked in 1957. But the rate has been declining ever since. Studies have shown that this is primarily due to the increased use of contraceptives.
I don’t have any children but I do get to stab small children with sharp objects at work (every job has its joys).
I live in the Southwest and we have an epidemic of 11 to 13 year old girls having babies. Some of the hospitals I have worked at have Medicaid offices in the hospital so the mothers can get the paperwork filed for the kid prior to leaving the hospital. Many is the time I have seen a 13 year old having her second or third child and the lobby filled with 20 to 30 relatives all happy she is having another child. It’s a major cultural problem. If we turned off the welfare taps I believe some of it would change. I don’t know what the answer is but giving kids potent hormones is not it.
From the little reading I have done on this topic I can’t find out who would actually be giving this medication to 11 year old children. As a Provider myself I can only think of one Provider I know that would actually do this (she works for planned
lack ofparenthood). As a Provider I would never put an 11 Y/O on a birth control medication. I would send them to a specialist OB/GYN or even in a special circumstance a Pediatric Endocrinologist.As to HPV there are over 150 strains that have been identified. Currently only certain strains have been associated with causing cancer. I worked with hospice patients for four years and saw many horrible cancer deaths, some that might have been prevented had we had a HPV vaccine. The rate of HPV in men that have had two or more sexual partners is close to 100%. It is my opinion that every woman should get the HPV vaccine who falls in the appropriate age range to get it. It might save your life.
As for the government demanding certain treatments. Google for my site and read the second story down for a description of chilling government interference with one of my patients. The site is the same as my name. I don’t want to leave a link without permission and appear to be a link who*e
All,
Where does Big Phrama fit into this picture…I have been thinking about it could Portland, Maine, be a test case, who is footing the bill for these birth control pills. Think about it there will have to be a government contract - it is a public school, with some phrama company. Who is peddling these birth control pills, we are all are thinking that the schools, went to Pharma, what if Pharma came to them, and stated we can fix your problem? Did somebody Lobby this school system?
I thought of this because down here in Texas, they wanted to give 9 year old girls the vacine for cervical cancer…remember and Pharma was looking at a nice chunk of change if Texas passed a law to make these vacines mandatory by age 9.
The thing is Pharma and the School system trying this, birth control pills for 11-13 year olds, are leaving themselves wide open for lawsuits.
There is already a question about children’s vacines, and if they have any effect on the rising Autism rates in our country, due to the perservative Thermosal. Where does our Government stand on this…well when she was first lady Hillary Clinton was advocating children’s vacines.
Little Girls used to generate profit? I hope someone takes a closer look into who is advocating the use of birth control pills for little girls, and who they are contracting with (Pharma Company) and what $$$ amount to. After all it is the citizen’s money, that will pay for this “Social Experiment” at the expense of Portland, Maine’s Children.
These vaccine kooks have been disproved many times. Please let it die.
Thankfully we live an hour north of the Portland School District. We still play tag and sing Christmas Carols here. There are still some small pockets of sanity… even in this devistatingly blue state.
But I have 4 aunts and 2 cousins and a sil who are public school teachers. And they have some serious horror stories. But one aunt took the cake with her 12 yo 5th grader who was pregnant. Her father had passed her around as a party favor. He was excited as it might turn out to be the son he had always wanted. CPS didn’t even take her out of the home. The mother wouldn’t leave him. It was all the girl’s fault for ‘maturing’ so young. She was 11 when she got pregnant.
So.. are 11 yo’s getting pregant? Yes. And by it’s very definition it is illegal. As ANYONE who has sex with someone under the age of 14 in this state is guilty of gross sexual assault. Even if you are both 11. But the law IS NOT ENFORCED.
Most girls getting pregnant that young… incest/rape. Fathers, step fathers, foster parents, brothers, cousins, etc. They’ve been raping her since she was 8 and didn’t realize she’d made the change.
But should that equal birth control for the 11 yo? Heck NO. Therapy and rape counseling. And a jail sentence for the perp. Unfortunately we don’t have the death penalty.
But most importantly BC pills are not a good choice for children. Safe and effective my arse. I could never take them. Not for long anyway. Nor could my mother or my sister or my niece. The side effects of even low dose pills cause us to be suicidal. Are they going to be doing a full pysch eval before they hand over those pills? Are they going to be closely watching the child for mood swings? Or changes in behavior? What 11 yo is going to recognize the warning signs of a major depression?
On the plus side however… these school clinics are not ‘open clinics’. They require parental permission to treat the child at all. There is a blanket form that goes out at the begining of the year. So.. easy answer.. don’t sign the form.
I did alright for myself.
Rick Moran #142
Is this Social Engineering? I keep thinking of the segment on the Factor, when Bill O’Reilly had on the author of “Freakenomics” spelling? The availability of abortions to minorities, ended up having social side effects. There is a history of Eugenics in our Country. Vermont had a program back in the bad old days called “Building Better Vermonters” they wanted to manage non whites, they say, you can still find remnants of the old eugenics codes today in Vermont’s public school system.
This school system won’t give any specifics, they use stats for over the last four years, for the reason they want to implement this “policy” They are children so there is privacy issues, the thing is if they were targeting a minority through a blanket program..which amounts to regulating reproduction…the real question is whose reproduction are they trying to regulate? I have been thinking about this alot because these are little girls, they are making decsions for, why because they are non whites? A backdoor eugenics program? They are only pointing to stats for the last four years, what has happened in this school system, in the last four years? What is the immigrant population in their school system?
I hope someone goes up to Portland, Maine and starts asking some probing questions. CNN can send Anderson Cooper isn’t this his forte?
Michelle,
Birth Control and Eugenics.
http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/mendel/2000.htm
All,
If you scroll down in the last link you will find this article. I am a genealogist and a family historian. Eugenics movement, is not new to our country. It was not isolated to just one part of our country either, for example the southeast.
Breeding Better Vermonters The Eugenics Project in the Green Mountain State
When I lose my cool a little bit and mention how it’s impossible to talk with some people, this is the kind of horsecrap I’m talking about:
Um. No. The teenage sex rate is much lower now than it was in the 50s. So much for the good ol’ days.
This chart from the CDC only goes to 1997, but the rates have gone down since then.
Are these morons closet pedophiles?! If an 11 y/o is “having sex” it is RAPE! It is a Childrens Services referral and police report NOT an indication for oral contraceptives. And has anyone addressed the long term effects of these drugs on a child this young? Still OK to use female bodies for political and financial purposes…
Soooo…let me see:
There are more illegitimate births, and more single-mother households now, as compared to the 50s, because:
teenage sex rates are lower now than they were in the 50s; and
there is sex “education” now, whereas there was no “sex education” in the 50s; and
contraceptive pills are available now, whereas they were not available in the 50s.
In other words, less teenage sex; the provision of sex “education”; and the availability of contraceptives (meaning drugs that counter or prevent pregnancy: contra = against; + ceptive = pregnancy) have led to more illgitimate births and more single-mother households.
OK.
Makes sense to me.
Studies and statistics and charts can’t be wrong, nor manipulated, can they?
Naaahh.
What was I thinking?
Why, if experts tell us that up is down; that day is night; that bad is good; that more is actually less; that more gasoline will sure put that fire out; that we saps don’t know $*@t from Shinola, nor our ar$#s from holes in the ground; well, then, who do we saps think we are when we dare to disagree with the experts?
Mr. Orwell, are you shaking your head, too?
Other bloggers: comments?
Granite,
I am circling around the eugenics and birth control history.
Who does “The State” want to reproduce and not reproduce. All we know about these little girl’s is that their age is btw (11-13) hmm..not alot of information but enough for a school district to approve a very controversial policy. They will use the fact that they are minors and privacy issues, the problem is it is public money, that will fund this program. I don’t know how the people in Portland, Maine are responding to this issue. My response would be you are not using my money to give the pill- hormones to little girls, who have not even started their cycles, in most cases. You would think the Left would at least have a problem with these little girl’s health possibly being compromised. This is what I meant in a earlier comment about the school district leaving it’s self wide open for dispensing “Perscription Drugs” to minors. If you sue the school system, it is the tax payers, who foot the bill because they are the ones funding the public school in the first place. There is some very shortsighted decision making, going on up in Maine.
Laree:
I sure can’t disagree with you.
#154 - yeah, don’t feed the troll!
Granite, there are more single parent families and “illegitimate” births because marriage rates are down, not because sex and pregnancy rates are up.
Yes stats and studies can be manipulated, but this isn’t a Planned Parenthood study or a Heritage Foundation study. This is the CDC…a neutral source.
It takes a special kind of person to be given factual information and still insist the facts are wrong and he/she is right. It’s healthy to be cynical and question these things…but come on. Especially when the answer to your cynicism (the drop in marriage rates) is so obvious! Page 10 of this study has an enlightening graph of teen marriage rates.
And before you mention it, I have no idea if this study is from left-leaning or right-leaning or neutral source.
Granite:
Those stats are from the freaking CDC. not exactly a fly-by-night-left-wing- controlled-axe-to-grind type entity.
As I said before, one must always consider the source and question methods. But you have given us nothing except your own feelings on the subject to back up your point of view. Show us something, anything, that contradict what Rusty cites. Or show us why the CDC should not be trusted. Otherwise, stop with the whole “lies, damn, lies, statistics” line and stop being incredulous that some here choose not to trust your intuition over that of verifiable scientific studies.
Yeesh.
And feebiebabe. How is what Rusty has presented in any way trolling? Unless by trolling you mean simply presenting ideas counter to your own, in a relatively civil way.
Posted same time Rusty…yeah what you said too.
Rusty
We don’t have all the information, what does the school district, has in front of them, that has brought about this policy change. If public money is going to pay for these “pills” then let the taxpayers know everything so they can decide if they want their tax dollars to pay for this policy. Remember taxation, without representation?
Laree,
Let’s recall Rusty (and I) think the situation here is wrong. We are NOT advocating giving birth control pills to 11-13 year old girls.
But this has turned into a larger argument about birth control in our schools and Rusty and I are simply disagreeing with some of the specific arguments being thrown around here.
And “Remember, taxation without representation?” Proper representation does not mean a public referendum on every policy decision made by our officials.
Well, I believe I said there are more illegitimate births, and more single mother-headed households now; which would not contradict the CDC chart, which, I believe, refers to births to teenage females of various age cohorts.
One explanation of the CDC chart results is, as p10 of the study referred to stated, that teen marriage rates are down.
Yet again, and for the last time (yes feebiebabe, it’s time to stop - after all…an irreconcilable difference in worldviews):
a sea change in our societal/cultural attitudes is needed, without which no meaningful, lasting improvement in societal/cultural problems has a chance to occur.
Among these attitudes are the societal/cultural attitude toward marriage; and the attitude toward adolescent sex.
But, as another saying goes, if it has to be explained to someone, that person will never understand.
Two diametrically opposed, irreconcilable worldviews exist.
Again, feebiebabe, you were right.
So you want this sea of change in our attitudes to sweep us back to the societal/cultural attitudes of the good-ol-50’s (no sex ed, no pill) that you seem so fond of, when teen pregnancy was higher than it is today?
But Rusty and I are the ones that don’t get it?
I know you may find some things personally morally objectionable, but that does not mean that they are ineffective in dealing with a problem.
Um. No. 11 and 12 year olds are not teenagers.
I’m sorry you have a problem with reading comprehension and logic. It must be the liberal pablum you’ve been fed while you were in public school in the 1990s. Too bad you were a latchkey kid who’s parents didn’t counter that crypto-Marxist claptrap.
Also, Rusty, do you know what most teenagers in the 1950s did when they got pregnant? They got married, or they were married before they got pregnant.
Then they were expected to take care of their child.
Like I said before, parental responsibility, a crazy idea that just might work.
Quick Rusty, give out some more parenting advice before you have any kids and they make you forget all of your valuable childrearing knowledge.
Chapoutier, Rusty,
The taxpaying citizens have a right to know what their taxes are going to pay for. A School Board from the middle school’s district in a Bigger School System, is not the City Govt, or even the County Govt. I don’t believe their POWER is the Law, in the City, County,or State of Portland, Maine.
This isn’t a small incidental policy change. I think the School Board over reached…but I can only guess because I am not privy to all the information they have, concerning the data they collected, to make this policy change. These are after all minors i.e vunerable and ALL people, should be looking out for them.
The School Board is casting a LARGE Net, not unlike Fisherman do. Fisherman cast a large net, they catch, lets say, Tuna, in the process Dolphins, are also netted. The School Board is casting a Net for Tuna. I would like to know more about the Tuna, were they caught-netted in their home waters or are they migrating Tuna. Why? Because I want to protect the Tuna, without sacrificing the Dolphins.
I do have a problem with Social Engineering and if these are Immigrants to our Country, they should be getting the same protection as Citizens- meaning Child Welfare should be stepping in, when little girls get pregnant….and the Citizen’s quality of life should not be marginalized to accommodate new comers if this is what is happening? Like I stated, we don’t have all the information, data…we get this: they are little girls so we know the gender btw (11-13) so we know their age. That isn’t a whole lot of information.
Yes, I think this School Board is fishing outside of it’s legal waters.
abortions = bad
teen pregnancies = bad
birth control (generally speaking) = good
schools prescribing the pill to MS girls = bad
ad hominem attacks = bad and lame
using the term “Marxist” w/o knowing what it actually means = bad and ridiculous
seeking to inject religious doctrine into public policy = bad and dangerous
To continue the list…
Dolphin-safe tuna fishing analogies = baffling
Roger that chapoutier…that one had my little ‘ole mail room head spinning.
On October 19th, 2007 at 2:19 pm,
Cry me a river and call the wahhhhmbulance, sockpuppet.
When somebody opens up on a couple of parents with this…
…I enjoy returning fire in like manner. Have some children and try to protect them from childless know-nothings who get parenting tips from Cracker Jack boxes, then get back to me.
Perhaps it’s you who doesn’t know what crypto-Marxism actually means. Then again, I wouldn’t expect someone indoctrinated by it to know what it means.
You more than live up to at least part of your handle ANGRYoldfatman. You also help make my point. Good stuff…thanks for the compelling dialogue.
BTW, I’ve raised, or am in the middle of raising, 4 terrific kids, and I happen to be a “Barry Goldwater conservative”, so save your assumptions.
One more thing:
If you’re talking hippie-dippy liberation theology, yeah.
If you’re talking that “freedom FROM religion” nonsense, then no.
Hey great, load ‘em up with pills and leave mine alone, thanks.
Good! As a “Goldwater conservative” there’s a perfect presidential candidate out there for you.
It’s called an Analogy, I can’t help it if you only think with one side of your brain.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/analogy
Don’t feed the trolls.
angry, couple of things:
…I’m no doctor, but my 4 are boys, so I don’t think the pill would be an effective birth control method for them. Also, a little more attention to detail on your part would reveal that I think what the school in Portland is doing is absolutely wrong.
…book rec for ya: Thomas Jefferson: Author of America by Christopher Hitchens. “Build up that wall Mr. Jefferson”.
…not a Goldwater fan I take it? Father of modern conservatism. Another book rec: “Conscience of a Conservative”.
Laree, thanks for the link, but despite only being able to think with one side of my brain, I get the whole analogy thing. Yours was just a really bad one.
dakine,
Heres another one for you.
Winning an argument on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics, even if you win, your still “Special”
Touche Laree.