Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week kicks off; Update: Just in time for IFA Week…a new bin Laden tape; Update: New IFAW video; Update: The backlash, continued
Update 9:52am Eastern 10/23. Incorrect U tracks the backlash. Here’s a lovely photo of one of the anti-IFAW protesters at Berzekeley:
Update 9:08am Eastern 10/23. RobertSpencer at DePaul.
Update 9:57pm Eastern. Here’s a new video from the Horowitz Freedom Center on the violent oppression of women in Islam…
Update 4:00pm Eastern. Megan Sego at UC Berkeley’s California Patriot is liveblogging the Nonie Darwish event tonight.
Update 3:30pm Eastern. A new purported bin Laden audio tape calls on jihadis to unite.
Update 2:10pm Eastern. Jim Hoft reports on the IFA week backlash.
***
The irrepressible David Horowitz is the man behind Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, which kicks off today. The Left and the jihadi apologists are in a snit, of course, and you already know what the grievance hoaxers at GWU attempted to do in their effort to deflect attention away from our true enemies and smear the organizers and supporters of IFAW.
The moonbats at Indymedia are calling on their minions to attack David’s campaign:
Horowitz means what he says, and it’s not at all an idle threat. What’s called for is nothing short of inflicting political defeat on them. In some ways, Horowitz has provided an opening for progressive and revolutionary-minded people to pry open and seriously change the terms of the whole debate, on campus and beyond. There is a basis for this—but it will require a major leap in awareness, mobilization and determination.
People need to step back and look at the whole picture, the whole sweep of U.S. society and where it is heading. Students especially need to recognize what it would mean to have such a week go uncontested, to allow such forces to set the terms of discussion and political life, to have a genuinely fascist political program and ideology not just legitimized but widely promoted as the main trend on campuses.
Work needs to be done immediately to transform the campuses across the country. Horowitz and “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” need to be exposed for what they are, in diverse and creative ways. There need to be public forums and classroom discussions about “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” and the threat it poses. Campuses need to be saturated with posters. Those who are planning protests against the fascists, and defense of Women’s Studies departments and Muslim student groups should be supported. The forces behind “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” need to be exposed and isolated. Other forces caught up in it need to be presented with the truth about Horowitz and what “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” is all about.
These people are not the champions of anything progressive. They are proven liars who are responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and laid that country to waste. They are readying a strike against Iran, which could include the use of nuclear weapons, as part of a global crusade which they say will last a generation. They engage in torture on an industrial, world-wide scale. They include biblical literalists who want to create a world which would be a horror for women, and for gays and lesbians.
“Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” must be repudiated and politically defeated. Work needs to begin now with distributing materials, like this paper, that expose what this is really all about. When the week comes, people need to be informed and mobilized, ready to deal this fascist offensive a decisive political defeat. Horowitz needs to be thoroughly called out and identified as persona non grata, someone with no right whatsoever to try and impose his fascist vision on universities. At the end of “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week”, these fascists need to be defeated, deflated, discredited and sent packing. If this offensive is thrown back, their ability to launch further attacks on professors and on critical thinking and dissent will be undermined. The momentum of campus brownshirts could be reversed. A very different dynamic in the universities is possible.
The battle against “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” and the brownshirt offensive may be the crucible through which a new generation cuts its teeth and finds its place in history. All who want a better world should relish this fight.
The Muslim Student Association at Penn State is also up in arms:
The biggest fear among Muslim students, faculty, administrators, and community is that the event creates an environment of intolerance, fear, and prejudice. Faculty could be perceived by their students as fascists; students could view their colleagues as promoters of fascist agendas, and staff could be alienated by colleagues and superiors. Repercussions could lead to tension and divisiveness among students, hate crimes, and additional alienation of the Muslim community in general. Pennsylvania State University promotes diversity, equality, freedom of belief, and safety of its community. The said event compromises those values to say the least.
The MSA at the University of Washington wants people on campus to wear green to protest IFAW:
Hala Dillsi, a member of the UW Muslim Student Association, believes Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week promotes fear and intolerance. She is distributing green armbands and encouraging people to wear T-shirts that are green — traditionally the color associated with Islam — on Wednesday in solidarity with local Arabs and Muslims.
The student group also is organizing a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.
Members of the Muslim Student Association, along with other organizations, also plan to hold protests outside Wednesday and Thursday evening’s Awareness Week events.
The MSA doth protest too much. No wonder they are so incensed.
Horowitz told the WashTimes:
Provoking protest is nothing new to Mr. Horowitz, an ex-Marxist and a leader of the 1960s New Left who has been the target of pie-throwing incidents during his campus appearances as a conservative speaker. He doesn’t mince words when describing his former ideological comrades.
“The left has only one strategy when dealing with its opponents, and that’s to smear them,” Mr. Horowitz, 68, says in a telephone interview. “They learned from Stalin.”
…Mr. Horowitz says conservatives should not tolerate accusations of “hate” from left-wing activists.
“We’re not just going to sit and take it,” he says. “We’re going to fight fire with fire. They are the haters, and we’re going to stick them with that.”
Support IFA Week here.
The calendar:
Brown University
Robert Spencer – 25th, 7pm, Salomon Hall 101
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
Greg Davis – 24th, 7:30pm, Phillips Hall
Clemson University
Mike Adams – 25th, 7pm, Hunter 100
Columbia University
David Horowitz – 26th, 12pm, Lerner Cinema
panel with Phyllis Chesler, Ibn Warraq, and Christina Sommers – 24th, 8pm, Math 203
DePaul University
Robert Spencer – 22nd, 7pm, Cortalyou Commons
Dartmouth
Robert Spencer – 26th, 7pm, Dartmouth Hall room 105
Emory University
David Horowitz – 24th, 8pm, White Hall 208
Lawrence University
Jonathan Schanzer – 24th, 7:30pm, Youngchild Hall
George Mason University
Luana Saghieh and Alan Nathan – 22nd, 8:30pm, Johnson Center Cinema
George Washington University
Michael Ledeen and Daphne Patai – 22nd, 10am, Mt. Vernon Campus, Eckles Auditorium
David Horowitz – 25th, 8pm, Marvin Center
Penn State University
Rick Santorum – 23rd, 8pm, 119 Osmond
Princeton
David Horowitz – 16th, 8pm, McCosh 10
Pepperdine
Tammy Bruce – 22nd, 7pm, Student Lounge
SFSU
Brian Sussman – 24th, 12pm, Jack Adams Hall
Temple University
Rick Santorum – 24th, 8pm, Student Center 218
Tufts
Daniel Pipes – 24th, 7pm
Tulane University
Ann Coulter – 22nd, 7pm, McAlister Auditorium
UC Berkeley
Nonie Darwish – 22nd, 7pm, Evans Hall 10
UC Santa Barbara
Dennis Prager – 25th, 7pm, Girvetz 1004
UCLA
Cyrus Nowrasteh – 23rd, 6:30pm, Moore 100
Nonie Darwish – 24th, 7pm, Haines 82
Joe Kaufman – 25th, 7pm, Moore 100
University of Miami
Cyrus Nowrasteh – 24th, 7pm, Whitten University Learning Center
University of Pennsylvania
Rick Santorum – 24th, 5:30pm, Hillel-Steinhardt Hall
panel with Daniel Pipes, Dr. Stephen Gale, and Ed Turzanski – 22nd, 7pm, Huntsman Hall
University of Rhode Island
Robert Spencer – 24th, 7pm, Memorial Union Ballroom
University of Washington
Michael Medved – 25th, 7pm, Smith 120
University of Wisconsin, Madison
David Horowitz – 22nd, 7:30, Wisconsin Union Theater
USC
Ann Coulter – 24th, 6pm, Annenberg School of Communication – G26
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Trackbacks
- La Shawn Barber's Corner
- Islam-Fascism Awareness Week
- IMAO
- Reverse_Vampyr
- The Jawa Report
- Islamofascism Awareness week kicks off » Infidels Are Cool
- Ft. Hard Knox » Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week
- RealClearPolitics - Blog Coverage
- Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week — 1389 Blog - Antijihadist Tech
- Solomonia
- Bill's Bites
- Cao's Blog
- Grizzly Groundswell » Blog Archive » Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week
- Islamo-Fascism Awarness Week - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought
- Right Voices » Blog Archive » Hey Everybody! It’s Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week At A Campus Near You!
- The Sundries Shack
- Confused about islamofacism… « Cowardly political musings…
- A Spur to Action: The Violent Oppression of Woman in Islam « Wolf Pangloss
- Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, Ocotber 22-26, 2007 at The Lunch Counter
- Plains Feeder
- College Republicans Bravely Fighting the Muslim Strawman Here so We Don’t Have To Fight Them There? | Akkam's Razor
- Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Hang Right Politics - Archives » Heartbroken
- Radio Left
- Seekersdigest.org » Blog Archive » Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Seekersdigest.org » Blog Archive » Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’ « Politicomuzlim
- » Looking at Islamofascist Awareness Week. Do the protesters protest too much? » Leaning Straight Up » Blog Archive »
- “Islamophobic Awareness Week” « Ali Eteraz
- Links, Info on the ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week ‘ « Arab racism Islamo fascism
- Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive Islamo-Fascism Awa - Political Hotwire
What we really need is a Liberal-Progressive Democrat awareness week.
Teh “sympathizers” don’t get it - they will be the second (or third) (after Christians and Jews) ones killed after the Islamo-Fascists get their wish.
Historically, Islam has always advances at the sharp edge of the sword. “Playing Nice” and/or much talking will not make the threat go away.
advances -> advanced
I want to thank the Nutroots for mentioning “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” so often. It really helps with the whole “awareness” thing. LOL Idiots…..
When I was growing up, at our high school if you wore green it meant you were horny. A bunch of college students wearing green…hmmmmm.
I cannot think of a more deserving bunch. Each of those universities can benefit from hearing from Robert Spencer, Ann Coulter, et al.
It’ll be interesting to see how warm and inviting these universities are to them. Methinks A-jab will have received a warmer reception…
Related: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2007/10/18/random-observation-on-islamofascism/
A statement like that makes one wonder what they are being taught about Christianity.
Apparently, they haven’t look into what Islam offers these people.
I just worked my way through a couple of related links to a series of videos, depicting atrocities commited in the name of Islam and jihad. The titles are in German.
I have to tell you that I’m a retired cop and I saw a lot of death during my 20 years on the job. And I’ve watched the video footage of several beheadings that the Islamos love to post on the web. That is revolting enough for anyone.
But words are inadequate to to describe my revulsion and horror when I watched the public anal impaling on a stake of a man in Afghanistan who was accused of homosexuality. And the children stood by to applaud his agony as he was hoisted upright to die slowly.
If this kind of law is what the Islamos have in mind for us (and it is) I will die fighting with my smoking gun in my hand before I will submit to these monsters.
I live in a liberal university city, I wish they were acknowledging IFAW in any way. I searched the university’s website, as well as the sites for politically-affiliated student groups… nothing.
Wow. “Facist,” “revolutionary-minded,” “crusade.”
This looks strangely familiar.
And it’s all about tolerance and open-mindedness until they get to “biblical-literalisits” and then it’s just hateful prejudice.
The bigots never see their own bigotry do they? The Klan always thought they were saving America.
“Those who are planning protests against the fascists, and defense of Women’s Studies departments and Muslim student groups should be supported.”
So, let me…:
Women’s studies (whatever that is) departments should be against becoming aware of Islamofascism?
Man, this Orwellian illogic makes my head spin.
Anyone else out there feeling dizzy?
“So, let me see…:, rather.
My apologies for the goof.
All they have to do is closely examine the picture at the top of this thread.
OT: How could anyone play soccer on a field that is covered in blood and bone bits?
The backwards thinking on this is astounding, even for liberals. By opposing Islamo-Fascism awareness they will save women and homosexuals from a horrible fate? That doesn’t even begin to make sense.
I also love the double standard that some of you have already mentioned. To make people aware of the documented terror of Islamo-Fascism is intolerant and evil, but to smear Christians is just being helpful?
Finally. Game on.
I just don’t get it. Why the resistance?
We’re not condemning the entire Muslim religion here. Clearly “Islamofascism” refers to the minority of Muslims who seek to kill us all.
Are these people seriously trying to say that there are no Islamic terrorists? Like I said, I just don’t get the left most of the time and here, they’re double loony.
#15,
liberal response: Oh that…that’s just an isolated incident.
Just seems funny how, looking at the venues and having some familiarity with the Dartmouth College set-up, I notice they’re sticking Robert Spencer in what is basically a smaller-sized classroom, definitely not one of the school’s larger venues….
lack of interest, or fear of protest by the moonbat students?
These people are blinded by hate.
Their hatered of Christianity and conservatism blinds them to the real evils threating their way of life.
Now there’s a fine example of freedom of speech and academic openness.
#18
“We’re not condemning the entire Muslim religion here.”
There are people on this very thread who have already done so. (See #2, “Islam always advances at the sharp end of a sword.”) It’s a slippery slope. The MSA’s around the country are just trying to protect themselves from that closed mindset.
A Islamic Fascism subject matter expedition into our colleges and universities is very much like pissing into the wind. The children of these institutions think the convocation of ideas is a food throwing contest. Their ranting and ravings are ear marks of their diversity and delivering a Islamo-Fascism message to them is much like teaching the pigs to sing. It irritates the pigs and frustrates the teachers.
watershed, in your rush to defend “openmindedness” you fail to exhibit the same “openmindedness” when it comes to Christianity…why is that?
Let me outline my perception of the resistance to Islamo-Facism Awareness Week.
If the public were to become aware, on a wide scale, of the pervasiveness and brutality of these activities in the Islamic world, it would become far harder to perpetuate the meme that the war on terror is a farce/lie/what-have-you.
The left cannot allow a picture of an enemy worth fighting to be painted. It undermines the left fringe’s entire platform; that there’s nothing to see here. . no enemy worth fighting. . .no truly destructive ideology. . .no nation more evil than the USA.
I’m hoping/suspecting that Ann Coulter’s appearance will be the focus of the ‘resistance’ activities. The left seems to be whipped into a blind fury by any woman who professes conservative beliefs. Perhaps it will attenuate disruption of the other events to some degree.
#25
?
I didn’t mention Christ, Christians, or Christianity in my post.
Arrgh! It is noon here in Northern Virginia- which means I missed the 10 am talk at GW! Drat drat drat drat… Post this stuff earlier please!
Gotta try and make it to the talk tonight at Mason…
No, but I did. It’s a valid question since we are discussing open-mindedness, no?
#26 - Yashmak
Excellent points. I followed the link over to the Indymedia post, and sure enough, in the midst of all of the rhetoric was the statement that although Islamic fundamentalism is bad,the most dangerous threat to world peace is American imperialism.
I’m trying to recall any time in about the last 150 years when the US won a war and kept the territory of the vanquished. Temporarily occupied it, sure; set up democratic governments, sure; set up the rule of law, check; but I’m a little weak on examples of annexing the territory and subjugating the people.
Those folks over at Indymedia have the most advanced case of anal-cranial inversion I’ve ever seen.
#29
I don’t understand how I am demonstrating “closemindedness” in regards to Christianity with my last post.
Just like cockroaches when the light is turned on these medieval savages are scrambling for cover. They don’t like it when the ugly truth about Islam is exposed. It is not a religion it is a form of totalitarian Government intolerant of any free thought or expression with no rights for women other than to be the property of men.
I am spending time in intercessory prayer this week for the speakers at these events. I am asking Jesus to protect these speakers and allow them to speak the truth with boldness about Islamic Fascism. I pray especially for Robert Spencer and David Horowitz. I also pray for those Muslims who desperately want out of a death obsessed religion that Jesus will give them a safe place to run to. And yes, I am praying for you Michelle. You are a beacon of hope and light for more people than you may possible be aware of.
The first sign of fascism…blocking all discussion or fascism!
The lame stream media, academic illuinati and liberals in general are always quick to call “right-wing Christians” out as a special group of scorn. So why are they so sqeemish about doing the same with Islamo-fascists? Do they hold a special place in their dark little hearts for these cretins or is it because they Christians aren’t inclined to fight back?
Bear w/ me, read carefully & enjoy..
Jihadis mean what they say, and it’s not at all an idle threat. What’s called for is nothing short of inflicting political defeat on them. In some ways, jihadis have provided an opening for progressive and revolutionary-minded people to pry open and seriously change the terms of the whole debate, on campus and beyond. There is a basis for this—but it will require a major leap in awareness, mobilization and determination.
People need to step back and look at the whole picture, the whole sweep of U.S. society and where it is heading. Students especially need to recognize what it would mean to have jihadi hate go uncontested, to allow such forces to set the terms of discussion and political life, to have a genuinely fascist political program and ideology not just legitimized but widely promoted as the main trend on campuses.
Work needs to be done immediately to transform the campuses across the country. Jihadis and “Islamo-Fascists” need to be exposed for what they are, in diverse and creative ways. There need to be public forums and classroom discussions about “Islamo-Fascism” and the threat it poses. Campuses need to be saturated with posters. Those who are planning protests against the fascists, and defense of Women’s Rights and Western civilization should be supported. The forces behind “Islamo-Fascism” need to be exposed and isolated. Other forces caught up in it need to be presented with the truth about jihadis and what “Islamo-Fascism” is all about.
These people are not the champions of anything progressive. Jihadis are proven liars who are responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and laid that country to waste. They are forcing a strike against Iran, hoping it can use nuclear weapons, as part of a global crusade which they say will last a generation. Jihadis engage in torture on an industrial, world-wide scale. They include Quran literalists who want to create a world which would be a horror for women, and for gays and lesbians.
“Islamo-Fascism” must be repudiated and politically defeated. Work needs to begin now with distributing materials, like this paper, that expose what this is really all about. People need to be informed and mobilized, ready to deal this fascist offensive a decisive political defeat. Jihadis need to be thoroughly called out and identified as persona non grata, someone with no right whatsoever to try and impose his fascist vision on universities. These “Islamo-Fascists” need to be defeated, deflated, discredited and sent packing. If this offensive is thrown back, their ability to launch further attacks on Americans and on critical thinking and dissent will be undermined. The momentum of campus jihadis could be reversed. A very different dynamic in the universities is possible.
The battle against “Islamo-Fascism” and the jihadi offensive may be the crucible through which a new generation cuts its teeth and finds its place in history. All who want a better world should relish this fight.
great question meatpieandtatters!
short answers: self-loathing and (extended) adolescent need for attention…mommy daddy hate, etc.
#35:
Exactly!
See Mike Adams’ article at today’s Townhall.com.
Leftist’s reaction to conservatives’, or to Christians’, or to Jews’ complaints is anger.
That’s why they spout and bluster.
Their reaction to muslims’ complaints is…fear.
That’s why they are then silent.
Leftists’, rather.
What the hell does ‘torture on an industrial world wide scale’ mean?
“What the hell does ‘torture on an industrial world wide scale’ mean?”
Haliburton.
Watershed, so…they’re protecting themselves from closed-mindedness by being closed-minded?
By that thinking, anyone with a view that doesn’t agree with the..ahem..gentlemen..at Indymedia is a facist. Sounds rather closed-minded to me. I wonder if he even knows what the real definition of ‘facist’ is.
granite (#37)
Great article, thanks for the tip.
#40
I think the MSA’s, et al, are afraid of a wholesale condemnation of Islam, something two or three posts on this very thread have already demonstrated.
It’s something to be concerned about, I think.
A week of focus on Islamo-facism is not a wholesale attack of Islam.
Sounds to me like they’re attacking the messenger so they don’t have to stand up to the threat the message reveals.
Once again - watershed is more worried about offending somebody than refuting the statement. Is the statement Islam has advanced at the sharp side of a sword not true?
#43
Like I said, you don’t have to look any farther than this thread for wholesale condemnations of the entire religion. Conflating the two (all Islam and terrorism) is the problem here.
Saturday Fox aired the NPR production about radical Islam. It shows the fight waged by moderates against the radicals in Islam. Of course these voices get very little mainstream media attention. Tax dollar funded NPR tried to water it down and tried to outright quash it. I have tried to contact Fox and get a copy of the program but, I haven’t been successful yet. I would be great to get the video out on the blogs.
To those that continue to mock and ridicule those who believe that radical Islam is a legitimate threat to this nation and the world, please feel free to continue to harbor that belief - at your own peril.
They operate here in the US hidden in the sheep’s clothing of religious liberty, when in fact radical Islam is not a religion at all. It is a subversive movement with the goal to replace of anything that is secular with the Muslim faith. It continues to amaze me that the so called “secular progressives” are among the strongest advocates of permitting the perpetuation of radical Islam.
What we are dealing with is a religious movement does not believe in any government other than a theocratic rule.
There are no laws they recognize but the laws set forth by the Koran as those have been interpreted by imam’s over the centuries. There can be no central secular government, and the only central authority they will recognize is one that submits to the authority of the Koran and the imams. There is no secular court system. The only arbiters of disputes and judge with respect to penalties are the religious leaders.
In effect, what you have is Islam replacing (1) an executive branch of government (2) an elected legislature and (3) an independent judiciary.
You also have the institution of a dual class society. All men are not equal. All Muslim men are equal. Muslim women are not equal to men, but two Muslim women can equal one man regarding the credibility of their testimony provided in a tribunal. All non Muslims have no rights except those granted to them by Muslims. Non Muslims, in order to stay in the good graces of the Muslim rulers, must pay tribute in the form of a tax to the ruling authority. This is a tax that is not imposed on Muslims. Your “rights” are limited, and certainly never rise to the level of those of a Muslim citizen. Your existence is merely tolerated, and the value of your life is measured in terms of a certain number of head of livestock as the adequate measure of compensation for your untimely demise.
This form of rule is essentially tribal rule. And it provides the religious leaders, the imams, with an incredible amount of power and control. It a movement that is perpetually stuck in the middle ages; a movement that cannot exist outside of the darkness and repression from those dark times in which it flourished.
And finally, the elephant in the room that no one wants to recognize: The Koran as viewed by radical Islam is totally incompatible with the United States Constitution. It transforms a government of the people into a religious sect ruled by imams. It turns religious freedom on its head. It eliminates any rights to privacy, equality or due process. And in this radical form, it advocates the overthrow of the US government and the complete destruction of the US Constitution.
Why doesn’t anyone want to recognize those issues? Because to do so would require our elected leadership to fulfill their oaths of office regarding protecting the US from all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to engage in what may become a long string of prosecutions for treason and sedition. Those are not exactly rosy prospects for officials that seem to care more about what the rest of the world thinks about the US rather than what they need to do to preserve this Country’s future.
#44
I used your comment to discount #18’s claim that-
“We’re not condemning the entire Muslim religion here.”
You obviously disagree with that.
Did I say I was condemning the religion? No I did not. What I said was it has advanced by the sword.
You are the one who decided that was a statement of condemnation.
Michelle, why do you reprint that garbage from Indymedia? It’s nonsense!
Jim M., if what you say is true (and I’m not saying it isn’t), what are you suggesting be done about it? I respect the honesty of your comment. Many pundits (including our host) who are at the forefront of the jihadist issue seem afraid to “go all the way” with their thoughts on this subject. If I’m reading you correctly, you are basically taking the Hitchens position.
wasn’t last week national freedom of speech week?
#44 conservativesRus:
Yep.
Common tactics (not all of which have necessarily been used in this particular instance).
Divert attention;
change the topic under discussion;
minimize and/or dismiss concerns;
focus more on process/form, rather than substance - ever wonder why discussions get bogged down in minutiae? - sort of like ignoring the forest fire, but arguing that someone was wrong to state that 11% of the trees in the forest were yellow birch and 7% gray birch, rather than 10.5% yellow and 7.6% grayyy…zzzzzz….;
Refer to a statement of fact as an attack.
Sure sound like lawyers’ “argument” techniques.
Compare to the dismissing of charges of violent crime against a suspect because - and this analogy is accurate, as I’ve observed for decades - the police or the D.A. failed to wear, say, wing-tip shoes when asking for a search warrant.
(A bit OT: When I was on the high school debate team, the debate topic one year had to do with what constituted unreasonable searches and seizures by the police.
That first focused my attention on the effect of “technicalities”, and on the beginning of the long decline in the safety of our streets.)
We are not involved in a game here, with arcane rules.
Make no mistake about it.
This is a war - a life-or-death struggle - that will last for decade upon decade, if we are to prevail.
‘Course, as the saying goes, the quickest way to stop a war is to surrender.
My prediction is that these ostriches will be committing several acts to discredit the movement and the week. There will be false accusations of “hate crimes” committed by those on the Left who believe they do such things in order to “expose” the real hatred. They have done it before and just watch, it will happen now. When they are caught, nothing will become of it, but the damage will be done.
Watershed,
I don’t get the “whole religion” thing in this thread. In #36 I took the Indymedia article, changed a handful of words (mostly Islamo-Fascism” and “Jihadi’) and it made the point on it’s own.
Jihadis, Islamo-Facisim, the MSM & leftist fear & appeasement are what I believe the majority are referencing here.
“And appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile in the hopes that he will be eaten last” - Winston Churchill.
#51
To be fair, Hitchens condemns ALL religion with the same ferocity. He wrote a polemic on Mother Teresa called “The Missionary Position”. He basically feels that the world has had to “endure” Christianity and Islam both.
#56
I would hope your sentiment was a popular one. I fear it’s not.
granite, I thing you’re reading way too much into what watershed is saying. He’s concerned about the perception that the entire religion of Islam is being attacked rather than the extremist elements responsible for jihadist terrorism. Fair point to my way of thinking. However, I don’t necessarily have a problem with attacking Islam in general. I’d just like to see folks be honest about what they’re doing.
Whoops, #57 was for #52. Sorry!
The http://www.terrorismawareness.org web site is blocked by our Barracuda Networks Firewall. Every site that is blocked has a comment, as to why it’s blocked.
Evidently, the employees at Barracuda Networks think this site is “tasteless and offensive”.
I guess the liberal ghost is in the machine now.
#59
Thanks. It’s difficult, with a contrary opinion, to combat some of the hyperbole here sometimes.
And I do feel that as an American man with a wife, daughter, and mother, that the view and treatment of women in Islamic nations is horrendous. (”Woman is the n***** of the world,” as Lennon said.) I just feel that this combative stance Horowitz takes can easily conflated against all Islam. Which has been already been demonstrated here on this thread quite plainly.
It’s important to note that sites like PETA, Moveon.org and Daily KOS are NOT blocked.
Liberal bias and censorship of free speech is everywhere.
#50
I could easily say that Christianity’s history is as violently sordid whan talking about say, abortion bombers or Tim McVeigh, but that does nothing except whitewash an entire reigion for it’s bad apples. I would rather address the issues themsleves.
Watershed (#58),
I enjoy Hitchens very much but using the “endure both religions” argument is, in itself, true, but kind of a straw man.
Hitchens posits that Christianity has passed it’s dark age, but is a big threat to the polemic of western politics. EX: Christians no longer stone homosexuals or burn witches, but James Dobson says which candidate is a Christian & which isn’t and 20 million zombies nod their heads. That’s a problem sure. But…
Islamo-Facists demand submission or death. They murder, rape, pillage, and torture us & their own in the name of their god and are a much bigger threat to the “polemic” of Western politics.
Militant Islam is at the height of it’s dark age (1500 years running). Hitchens knows the greater threat to civilization.
Watershed - You could easily say that but you are wrong.
But back to the original point which you objected to: Refute the statement if you can.
Don’t cite the price of peas in China, the number of holy cows in India.
Anybody ever totaled up the number of Islamofascist terror incidents, their death count, and their geographic sites across the globe, over the last 14 years;
and compared that to the corresponding total of abortion bomber attacks?
Most segments of American society in no way support abortion bomber attacks.
If you do, you are essentially no better than the abortionist.
I’m still waiting for the loud, sustained, strong, worldwide - Hell, I’d even take nationwide - condemnation of the Muslim terrorists by moderate, peaceful, Muslims; but, all I hear is crickets.
Regarding McVeigh - just did a quick Google - including his name in the same sentence as Christianity’s history is, to be charitable, at best an extremely tenuous assertion.
Sort of like lobbing a bomb.
And, quite frankly, whether the “moderates” silently condemn, passively acquiesce, or passively and silently support the terrorists does not matter: the result is the same.
This is not a case of, “Well, they’re all the same. Blah, blah, blah….”
they are not all the same.
I believe Robert Spencer just wrote a book about that.
#65
I understand your point, and it is completely valid. However I wouldn’t discount mine as a straw man. Many on this board are designing their arguments under the “Christ good, Allah bad” meme. I merely say a hard look at the one would require a hard look at them all. Dobson’s influence on the “zombies” can easily be as monumentally destructive when say, focusing on foreign policy.
Glass houses, etc. That’s all.
Speaking as an atheist here…
Christianity as an institution stopped being violent at least 300 years ago. When individual Christians commit acts of violence they are swiftly condemned by the overwhelming majority of Christians.
Islam as an institution is violent today. When Muslims commit acts of violence the overwhelming majority of other Muslims are silent, and the ones that do speak up generally cheer and ask for more.
You know what really prevents us from addressing the real issues? People who are unable to see that rather glaring difference and continue to insist that all religions are created equal.
Two points:
“…who want to create a world which would be a horror for women,and for gays and lesbians.” This world ALREADY exists under Islamic extremism. Women are third class citizens, and gays and lesbians get stoned to death.
Go to thereligionofpeace site (if anyone can post the link, please do so, thanks).
#67
Hard to play offense on the defensive side. The MSA’s of this country are countering that they are not the people who want to kill you, something you say is sorely lacking in this current environment. How is this not a good thing? They instead get the “protest to much” card.
I am nowhere near any of these schools so I obviously won’t be able to see any of the presentations. Anyone know if there will be transcripts or videos made available of the various presentations?
Wow - 68 - so Murtha’s influence on the “zombies” isn’t destructive? Amazing.
#73
Murtha? I’m not sure what you mean.
#71
Hello again watershed.
I think that MSA’s letting everyone know (and showing) that there are Muslims who “are not the people that want to kill you” is great. The objection here is very clearly not that they are standing up and making their presence as non-terrorist Muslims known. The problem is that they are working to block speakers from letting campuses across the country know how truly terrible and fascist Islamism is.
#75 JW2:
Excellent.
Thank you.
There are more people killed in Islamic terror attacks every year than in the 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition. That is a FACT.
There have been 9820 deadly terror attacks since 9-11. FACT.
In Iraq in 2006 there were 225 Iraqi civilians killed by US and Coalition forces Vs. 16,791 killed by Islamic terrorists. That is a FACT.
To even attempt to compare what islam has done and is doing to Christianity and it’s misguidedness is ridiculous. For one thing, what happened with Christianity was very long ago. It was during a time when violence was rampant everywhere and people were killed by their neighbors for owing them money, placed in debtors prisons and believed that the world was flat and the sun revolved around it. While there are extremists in Christianity today, you are hard pressed to find violence in their actions. Tim mcVeigh is always trotted up by liberals as a comparison person. Using him shows their great ignorance, as he did not act in the name of a church, religion, belief or god other than to seek vengeance on the government for Ruby Ridge and Waco. Compare that to every Islamic attack, and the differences are vast and many. To use abortion clinic bombers and abortion doctor murderers is also BS, for they are not welcomed, the bombing of clinics and killing of doctors is not taught nor is it encouraged save for the person and his closest compatiots sck minds and when someone does such a thing he is ostricized, and people…mainly Christians, come out in droves to denounce them and work towards ending such hatred. Compare that with the teachings at the Medrassas and other Muslim centers for prayer and teachings as well as the Internet and other forms of media.
Anyone who even attempts to compare the two is being completely dishonest and ignorant. The two books, the Bible and the Koran could not be any more different in their teaching if they were purposely written to be contrary. Christianity’s main tenants are of peace, love, caring and understanding for your fellow man, where theft, dishonety and violence is discouraged and even seen as a direct ine into Hell. While Christianity in the far past stumbled with these concepts as anything taught by man will when human nature gets in the way, it has worked hard to make sure that it follows it’s own teachings.
comparatively, the Koran teaches none of these things. It teaches hate, bigotry and violence. It condones and encourages slavery and war, and the murders of those that questions, doubt and does not believe. Anyone who does not see the truth of the two is either stupid, mis-iformed or just putting their heads in the sand at the folly of their own life and that of everyone they love.
#75
“I think that MSA’s letting everyone know (and showing) that there are Muslims who “are not the people that want to kill you” is great.”
Apparently MM does not. They “protest too much.” I find that a curious reaction.
I say that by simply demonstrating themselves as peacful Americans, they do exactly what you complain isn’t happening- moderate Muslims making a stand.
And again, no-one here has a problem with exposing terrorism, its the conflation of all Islam and terrorism that is the issue here. Don’t want a too rabid reaction whitewashing an entire religion.
There is classic liberal misdirection going on in this comment thread.
I.e. excusing bigoted, hateful, ignorant anti-Christian and anti-Conservative speech and behavior by bringing up imagined anti-Islamic bigotry. Remember right after 9-11 when people were bracing for the anti-Muslim backlash that never occurred? This stems from a liberal myth that Americans as a whole and especially conservative Americans are just waiting for an excuse to hate and oppress a minority group.
The overwhelming majority of Americans have been able to differentiate between Muslim extremist and moderate Muslims and have bent over backward to keep from even offending them. But the left continues to treat us like we are just two steps away from burning crosses on the lawns of mosques. When a group does not exhibit the behavior that another group expects them to exhibit and yet the first group continues to believe their misconceptions about them; this is bigotry.
What is truly ironic is that this hateful, paranoid behavior that the left keeps waiting for is exactly what is being exhibited in the article that Michelle posted. But in my experience, many on the left are blind to irony.
Signed,
A Biblical-literalist who doesn’t want to oppress women, gays or lesbians.
“Don’t want a too rabid reaction whitewashing an entire religion.”
Like say, #77’s post. I would say that the MSA’s of this country must have a hard time starting a conversation about their view on their religion with that kind of thinking facing them.
#78
Did you read my entire post? You completely ignored what I had to say about why people here are complaining about the MSA “protesting too much.”
All of that to say that paranoid delusions are no excuse for bigotry, but are quite often cited as a supposedly rational reason.
I have an uncle who doesn’t trust African-Americans so he believes that they are going to hurt the country, so he does’t trust them, so he believes that they are going to hurt the country. Rinse, repeat ad absurdum.
Also, Christianity is directly responsible for numerous charitable organizations and acts. There are millions of people in his world over the last few CENTURIES who owe their lives and that of their family to Christians and the organizations funded, staffed and run by Christians. they have provided food, shelter, clothing, medicine, physicians etc., to the poorest of the poor at great risk to their own lives. They have brought water and irrigation to farmers. they have taught the illiterate to read, and have encouraged the education of females the world round.
I challenge anyone to locate a single Islamic charity organization that helps in a similar fashion. Just one. Other than other Muslims, they do not help, and as the Tsunami of a few years ago will attest, even when it is of their own people, the help is hard to come by and that which does arrive is nothing more than a mere token.
Conservative Russ, I said ‘zombies’ but #68 was a different post on my screen, so I guess you’re referring to me.
Murtha? Talk about ‘price of peas in China.’ First, completely different set of zombies. Second I expect conservatives to be the actual free thinking counter culture. Not towing some bozo like Dobson’s “company line.” As a Christian, I agree with much of his platform…right up until he starts judging people for the masses (as with Fred Thompson- a man he’s NEVER met). What the hell does he know about my personal walk with God (or anyone else’s for that matter)? Who is he to speak for all ‘true christians’ or rubber stamp a presidential candidate? As a Protestant Christian, I don’t need a Political Pope.
Presenting facts and refuting your generalizations does not make someone a bigot. Sorry you cannot deal with those, but facts are facts and emotions aren’t worth the paper…or spun thread…they are written on.
I have never understood the credence given to Dobson. It appears that the only ones giving it to him are Liberals who do not believe in anything but themselves and Socialism and the media.
Conservative Russ: If you didn’t mean me, apologies. Dobson drives me nuts.
That said; If you meant Watershed, we can all disagree on the finer points, but I don’t know how you take anything he has said and make him a Murtha apologist.
Confused.
Watershed, btw, Tim McVeigh was REALLY NOT a Christian… http://www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm
but I’m sure you’ll keep repeating this mendacious meme cause it suits your purposes…
just like I’m sure you would never choose to do the research and understand that the Crusades were in fact more of a defensive war against invading Islam than a war of Christian conquest… (http://www.crisismagazine.com/april2002/cover.htm)
and
The Medieval and Spanish Inquisitions combined, in 500 years, caused only about 6,000 deaths (a large #, but over 500 years not really a major pogrom)(http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/inquisition)
#81
I feel that conflating all Islam and all terrorism is the issue here. By standing up and saying “we are not terrorists,” they 1) say they are peaceful americans, and 2) try to combat an ignorant view of what they obviously think are the peaceful aspects of their religion.
If the average Horowitz meeting is anything like post #77, they damn well should be protesting.
#84 Lamontyoubigdummy
I grew up respecting Dobson. I remember as a kid watching his movies about family life and parenting and whatnot in the basement of our Church. I remember his books giving really good advice to parents when the culture was telling parents the exact opposite.
I really hadn’t paid any attention to him for quite a while until a few years ago, and I’m going to have to agree with you. What happened? Why is he telling us who to vote for now?
It makes me sad. I really respect him for all of work that he has done helping people. I really think he was doing God’s work. But I’m having a hard time understanding “where he’s comming from” lately.
Clear Biblical illiteracy from people who don’t understand Christianity OR the Bible.
The Old Testament is just that - OLD. It deals with the old covenant, the old laws.
The New Testament deals with the Christian covenant - Jesus’ teachings, etc. No where in the New Testament does Jesus advocate abusing women, or stoning gays.
I’d much rather live under the supposed, never-really-gonna-happen, Christian “theocracy” that liberals constantly worry about than anything remotely resembling the joys shari’a law places on women.
Being a Catholic, I can still
- vote
- drive
- go to work
- receive an education
- leave my home uncovered and unescorted
- have my blinds and windows open
- date who I please
- marry who I please
And the list goes on. All those things are denied to millions of women under Islamic teaching on a daily basis.
More to the point: when was the last time a priest ordered a Catholic girl murdered by her family in the name of “honor”? When was the last time an Evangelical congregation hanged a homosexual couple? Never.
Remember, folks. When liberals talk about religion, ten times out of ten, they’re just dead wrong.
And I’m sick of these theological morons spouting this nonsense.
With the fires, I doubt that this one will be happening tonight…
Warning:
Thread being hijacked. Topic being changed to defending Christianity and conservatism against made up accusations and away from discussing hateful and bigoted words and actions discussed in Michelle’s post.
Someone has us trying to prove a negative. Next they will ask us to divide by zero.
Here is how the MSA demonstrates inclusiveness. Not even all Muslims are included - only Sunni Muslims:
http://www.msanational.org/news/10/71/
And why I stopped donating to my Alma Mater, which has an MSA chapter:
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/4/3/talibanAdmitHauntsShawAsStanfordLettersGoOut
Even my prep school has an MSA chapter, along with dozens of other carve ‘em up and label ‘em groups:
http://www.exeter.edu/student_life/85_532.aspx
OK Watershed, you just lost me for the day.
“If the average Horowitz meeting is anything like post #77, they damn well should be protesting.”
Based on one post (#77), you’re lumping all the average Horowitz meeting attendees into ONE group.
Thought we weren’t supposed to do that?
Nobody here is advoctaing war against a billion Muslims, but I for one WILL advocate taking out as many Islamic Theocracies as needed to prevent this Republic from becoming one big radioactive, glow in the dark pile of rubble.
Islamo-Facism Awareness week has a big well-deserved place on todays American campus.
@englishqueen01 #91
While I don’t necessarily agree with everything you wrote, you made some excellent points which should be obvious to anyone not blinded by anti-Christian hatered.
#89
Feeling that they should protest and offering us your reasons behind that is all well and good. But, you sure did a good job of ignoring the fact that up until that last post you were distorting things said here (presumably) to bring up the argument that you wished to make.
You very clearly claimed that some of us (MM included) were making complaints of the MSA “protesting too much” simply because they were making themselves known as peaceful Americans. That, as far as I can see, is nothing less than a lie.
#91
Women are truly underclass in many Islamic countries(and many non-Islamic countries. It is shameful, the treatment of women.)
I think however, that we are addressing the view of American Muslims, what the MSA’a think, and the fact that they say, “THATS NOT US!”
I personally believe them and think their insight is pretty invaluable.
From MM post above: “The student group also is organizing a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.”
How can this be ANYTHING but a good thing?
29Victor: I agree totally on Dobson. But you’re right, it’s another discussion.
Thread un-hijacked. Now…divide by zero!
From comment #78: “Don’t want a too rabid reaction whitewashing an entire religion.”
I see, the reaction is too rabid.
Hmmmm…I should be impressed, ’cause it did, after all, take at least a little time (from 10:46 AM to 2:55 PM) for the disdainful, snide, ad hominem (or, since it’s plural in this case, ad homines) remark to come out.
What a perfect time to break their silence and join against IslamoFascism! I’m sure their participation in IFA Week would be most welcome!
Lamontyoubigdummy
I’d rather find the square root of -1, but that would be irrational.
It is clear to me that there are two kinds of poeple out there - those who build things and those who tear them down.
It is much more difficult to build something than to tear it down. And often when something is built, it generates jelousy or fear and activitates the tear down feature in others.
I have seen both on this thread and many others on this site. People will put forth a thought or theory built on facts they have gleaned from various sources. And rather than build a solidly constructed position to the contrary, there are those people who start nitpicking the facts or sources or, devine through mental telepathy the intentions and thoughts of the writer or inject hyperbole into the argument so as to blow the construction down with their mighty wind of moral superoroty.
Rather than taking the low road, why don’t those who disagree with some of the more well reasoned posts here posit a well reasoned position of their own? The facts are out there for those who want to take the time to find them. There is no charge in this country for logic or common sense, so those are free for your use. Why?
That is what a debate is about. You take facts to construct an argument leading to a conclusion.
From what I have seen here, it is my belief that no one takes that route because there is no logical argument that in most cases can be constructed to support the other side. When that happens, it threatens the very pre-conceived notions, prejudices and beliefs gleaned as a result of what others tell them. And when that combination of circumstances presents itself, the individual ego finds it necessary to defend itself by whatever means are available.
When the use of the higher thought process fails them, they revert to tactics further and further down the evolutionary chain of thought. Can’t refute a thought with logic, attack the thought. Throw rocks at the moon. The thought is still there or the moon does not move from the sky, you eventually end up engaged in primal behavior, screaming and foot stomping tht would make a two year old’s tantrum look like a Harvard/Yale debate.
If you have nothing to contribute to a discussion other than petty and poorly veiled attempts to discredit another; nothing more to contribute than wailing and gnashing your teeth in response to another’s thoughts; or notihng more to contribute than by posting a comment designed not to contribute but to agitate, anger or demans others, you really need to be spend some time in front of a mirror to see just how idiotic and infantile you appear to the rest of the world.
To those who do not believe radical Islam is a threat to the US, why do you believe that? What facts, when combined with principles of logic and common sense, led you to that conclusion.
#84…sorry my remark wasn’t directed to you.
I agree with you that we don’t need Dobson telling us what to think - Christian Protestant or not. I’m not so sure though of his real influence. Lots of people tune in but what they do in the voting booth - I’m not sure. I’m sure his statements make people ask questions but I’m not sure how many blindly follow.
#102 29Victor:
Actually “i”, the square root of -1, is an imaginary number.
But, good point!
Watershed - your post 89 gets right to the point of the matter. Have you heard the Islamic community condemn the radical elements? If you did - I missed it.
But you still haven’t refuted my statement.
#95
I am saying the MSA’a are afraid of a rabid, “all Muslims bad” mentality that that can demonstrated right here on this very thread, despite assurances that that kind of thinking is discounted.
#105 granite
How does one stick out one’s tonuge here? Beause I’m stickin’ it a you baby!
You’re right of course. It’s supposed to be “the square root of 2.”
Jim M. #103:
Accuratley and eloquently stated.
Thank you.
“tonuge” = “tongue”
Wow, I’m blowing it in math and English today.
Yeah, Jim M., nicely said. And no math errors.
Er…accurately, rather.
Sheesh!
From #107, “I am saying the MSA’a are afraid of a rabid, “all Muslims bad” mentality that that can demonstrated right here on this very thread, despite assurances that that kind of thinking is discounted.’
So…according to that post, a number of posters on this thread are displ