Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week kicks off; Update: Just in time for IFA Week…a new bin Laden tape; Update: New IFAW video; Update: The backlash, continued
Update 9:52am Eastern 10/23. Incorrect U tracks the backlash. Here’s a lovely photo of one of the anti-IFAW protesters at Berzekeley:
Update 9:08am Eastern 10/23. RobertSpencer at DePaul.
Update 9:57pm Eastern. Here’s a new video from the Horowitz Freedom Center on the violent oppression of women in Islam…
Update 4:00pm Eastern. Megan Sego at UC Berkeley’s California Patriot is liveblogging the Nonie Darwish event tonight.
Update 3:30pm Eastern. A new purported bin Laden audio tape calls on jihadis to unite.
Update 2:10pm Eastern. Jim Hoft reports on the IFA week backlash.
***
The irrepressible David Horowitz is the man behind Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, which kicks off today. The Left and the jihadi apologists are in a snit, of course, and you already know what the grievance hoaxers at GWU attempted to do in their effort to deflect attention away from our true enemies and smear the organizers and supporters of IFAW.
The moonbats at Indymedia are calling on their minions to attack David’s campaign:
Horowitz means what he says, and it’s not at all an idle threat. What’s called for is nothing short of inflicting political defeat on them. In some ways, Horowitz has provided an opening for progressive and revolutionary-minded people to pry open and seriously change the terms of the whole debate, on campus and beyond. There is a basis for this—but it will require a major leap in awareness, mobilization and determination.
People need to step back and look at the whole picture, the whole sweep of U.S. society and where it is heading. Students especially need to recognize what it would mean to have such a week go uncontested, to allow such forces to set the terms of discussion and political life, to have a genuinely fascist political program and ideology not just legitimized but widely promoted as the main trend on campuses.
Work needs to be done immediately to transform the campuses across the country. Horowitz and “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” need to be exposed for what they are, in diverse and creative ways. There need to be public forums and classroom discussions about “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” and the threat it poses. Campuses need to be saturated with posters. Those who are planning protests against the fascists, and defense of Women’s Studies departments and Muslim student groups should be supported. The forces behind “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” need to be exposed and isolated. Other forces caught up in it need to be presented with the truth about Horowitz and what “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” is all about.
These people are not the champions of anything progressive. They are proven liars who are responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and laid that country to waste. They are readying a strike against Iran, which could include the use of nuclear weapons, as part of a global crusade which they say will last a generation. They engage in torture on an industrial, world-wide scale. They include biblical literalists who want to create a world which would be a horror for women, and for gays and lesbians.
“Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” must be repudiated and politically defeated. Work needs to begin now with distributing materials, like this paper, that expose what this is really all about. When the week comes, people need to be informed and mobilized, ready to deal this fascist offensive a decisive political defeat. Horowitz needs to be thoroughly called out and identified as persona non grata, someone with no right whatsoever to try and impose his fascist vision on universities. At the end of “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week”, these fascists need to be defeated, deflated, discredited and sent packing. If this offensive is thrown back, their ability to launch further attacks on professors and on critical thinking and dissent will be undermined. The momentum of campus brownshirts could be reversed. A very different dynamic in the universities is possible.
The battle against “Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week” and the brownshirt offensive may be the crucible through which a new generation cuts its teeth and finds its place in history. All who want a better world should relish this fight.
The Muslim Student Association at Penn State is also up in arms:
The biggest fear among Muslim students, faculty, administrators, and community is that the event creates an environment of intolerance, fear, and prejudice. Faculty could be perceived by their students as fascists; students could view their colleagues as promoters of fascist agendas, and staff could be alienated by colleagues and superiors. Repercussions could lead to tension and divisiveness among students, hate crimes, and additional alienation of the Muslim community in general. Pennsylvania State University promotes diversity, equality, freedom of belief, and safety of its community. The said event compromises those values to say the least.
The MSA at the University of Washington wants people on campus to wear green to protest IFAW:
Hala Dillsi, a member of the UW Muslim Student Association, believes Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week promotes fear and intolerance. She is distributing green armbands and encouraging people to wear T-shirts that are green — traditionally the color associated with Islam — on Wednesday in solidarity with local Arabs and Muslims.
The student group also is organizing a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.
Members of the Muslim Student Association, along with other organizations, also plan to hold protests outside Wednesday and Thursday evening’s Awareness Week events.
The MSA doth protest too much. No wonder they are so incensed.
Horowitz told the WashTimes:
Provoking protest is nothing new to Mr. Horowitz, an ex-Marxist and a leader of the 1960s New Left who has been the target of pie-throwing incidents during his campus appearances as a conservative speaker. He doesn’t mince words when describing his former ideological comrades.
“The left has only one strategy when dealing with its opponents, and that’s to smear them,” Mr. Horowitz, 68, says in a telephone interview. “They learned from Stalin.”
…Mr. Horowitz says conservatives should not tolerate accusations of “hate” from left-wing activists.
“We’re not just going to sit and take it,” he says. “We’re going to fight fire with fire. They are the haters, and we’re going to stick them with that.”
Support IFA Week here.
The calendar:
Brown University
Robert Spencer – 25th, 7pm, Salomon Hall 101
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
Greg Davis – 24th, 7:30pm, Phillips Hall
Clemson University
Mike Adams – 25th, 7pm, Hunter 100
Columbia University
David Horowitz – 26th, 12pm, Lerner Cinema
panel with Phyllis Chesler, Ibn Warraq, and Christina Sommers – 24th, 8pm, Math 203
DePaul University
Robert Spencer – 22nd, 7pm, Cortalyou Commons
Dartmouth
Robert Spencer – 26th, 7pm, Dartmouth Hall room 105
Emory University
David Horowitz – 24th, 8pm, White Hall 208
Lawrence University
Jonathan Schanzer – 24th, 7:30pm, Youngchild Hall
George Mason University
Luana Saghieh and Alan Nathan – 22nd, 8:30pm, Johnson Center Cinema
George Washington University
Michael Ledeen and Daphne Patai – 22nd, 10am, Mt. Vernon Campus, Eckles Auditorium
David Horowitz – 25th, 8pm, Marvin Center
Penn State University
Rick Santorum – 23rd, 8pm, 119 Osmond
Princeton
David Horowitz – 16th, 8pm, McCosh 10
Pepperdine
Tammy Bruce – 22nd, 7pm, Student Lounge
SFSU
Brian Sussman – 24th, 12pm, Jack Adams Hall
Temple University
Rick Santorum – 24th, 8pm, Student Center 218
Tufts
Daniel Pipes – 24th, 7pm
Tulane University
Ann Coulter – 22nd, 7pm, McAlister Auditorium
UC Berkeley
Nonie Darwish – 22nd, 7pm, Evans Hall 10
UC Santa Barbara
Dennis Prager – 25th, 7pm, Girvetz 1004
UCLA
Cyrus Nowrasteh – 23rd, 6:30pm, Moore 100
Nonie Darwish – 24th, 7pm, Haines 82
Joe Kaufman – 25th, 7pm, Moore 100
University of Miami
Cyrus Nowrasteh – 24th, 7pm, Whitten University Learning Center
University of Pennsylvania
Rick Santorum – 24th, 5:30pm, Hillel-Steinhardt Hall
panel with Daniel Pipes, Dr. Stephen Gale, and Ed Turzanski – 22nd, 7pm, Huntsman Hall
University of Rhode Island
Robert Spencer – 24th, 7pm, Memorial Union Ballroom
University of Washington
Michael Medved – 25th, 7pm, Smith 120
University of Wisconsin, Madison
David Horowitz – 22nd, 7:30, Wisconsin Union Theater
USC
Ann Coulter – 24th, 6pm, Annenberg School of Communication – G26
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Trackbacks
- La Shawn Barber's Corner
- Islam-Fascism Awareness Week
- IMAO
- Reverse_Vampyr
- The Jawa Report
- Islamofascism Awareness week kicks off » Infidels Are Cool
- Ft. Hard Knox » Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week
- RealClearPolitics - Blog Coverage
- Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week — 1389 Blog - Antijihadist Tech
- Solomonia
- Bill's Bites
- Cao's Blog
- Grizzly Groundswell » Blog Archive » Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week
- Islamo-Fascism Awarness Week - Liberal Values - Defending Liberty and Enlightened Thought
- Right Voices » Blog Archive » Hey Everybody! It’s Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week At A Campus Near You!
- The Sundries Shack
- Confused about islamofacism… « Cowardly political musings…
- A Spur to Action: The Violent Oppression of Woman in Islam « Wolf Pangloss
- Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week, Ocotber 22-26, 2007 at The Lunch Counter
- Plains Feeder
- College Republicans Bravely Fighting the Muslim Strawman Here so We Don’t Have To Fight Them There? | Akkam's Razor
- Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Hang Right Politics - Archives » Heartbroken
- Radio Left
- Seekersdigest.org » Blog Archive » Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Seekersdigest.org » Blog Archive » Think Progress » Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’
- Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week’ « Politicomuzlim
- » Looking at Islamofascist Awareness Week. Do the protesters protest too much? » Leaning Straight Up » Blog Archive »
- “Islamophobic Awareness Week” « Ali Eteraz
- Links, Info on the ‘Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week ‘ « Arab racism Islamo fascism
- Horowitz Inflates Number Of Schools Participating In His Divisive Islamo-Fascism Awa - Political Hotwire
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Here is how the MSA demonstrates inclusiveness. Not even all Muslims are included – only Sunni Muslims:
http://www.msanational.org/news/10/71/
And why I stopped donating to my Alma Mater, which has an MSA chapter:
http://daily.stanford.edu/article/2006/4/3/talibanAdmitHauntsShawAsStanfordLettersGoOut
Even my prep school has an MSA chapter, along with dozens of other carve ‘em up and label ‘em groups:
http://www.exeter.edu/student_life/85_532.aspx
OK Watershed, you just lost me for the day.
“If the average Horowitz meeting is anything like post #77, they damn well should be protesting.”
Based on one post (#77), you’re lumping all the average Horowitz meeting attendees into ONE group.
Thought we weren’t supposed to do that?
Nobody here is advoctaing war against a billion Muslims, but I for one WILL advocate taking out as many Islamic Theocracies as needed to prevent this Republic from becoming one big radioactive, glow in the dark pile of rubble.
Islamo-Facism Awareness week has a big well-deserved place on todays American campus.
@englishqueen01 #91
While I don’t necessarily agree with everything you wrote, you made some excellent points which should be obvious to anyone not blinded by anti-Christian hatered.
#89
Feeling that they should protest and offering us your reasons behind that is all well and good. But, you sure did a good job of ignoring the fact that up until that last post you were distorting things said here (presumably) to bring up the argument that you wished to make.
You very clearly claimed that some of us (MM included) were making complaints of the MSA “protesting too much” simply because they were making themselves known as peaceful Americans. That, as far as I can see, is nothing less than a lie.
#91
Women are truly underclass in many Islamic countries(and many non-Islamic countries. It is shameful, the treatment of women.)
I think however, that we are addressing the view of American Muslims, what the MSA’a think, and the fact that they say, “THATS NOT US!”
I personally believe them and think their insight is pretty invaluable.
From MM post above: “The student group also is organizing a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.”
How can this be ANYTHING but a good thing?
29Victor: I agree totally on Dobson. But you’re right, it’s another discussion.
Thread un-hijacked. Now…divide by zero!
From comment #78: “Don’t want a too rabid reaction whitewashing an entire religion.”
I see, the reaction is too rabid.
Hmmmm…I should be impressed, ’cause it did, after all, take at least a little time (from 10:46 AM to 2:55 PM) for the disdainful, snide, ad hominem (or, since it’s plural in this case, ad homines) remark to come out.
What a perfect time to break their silence and join against IslamoFascism! I’m sure their participation in IFA Week would be most welcome!
Lamontyoubigdummy
I’d rather find the square root of -1, but that would be irrational.
It is clear to me that there are two kinds of poeple out there – those who build things and those who tear them down.
It is much more difficult to build something than to tear it down. And often when something is built, it generates jelousy or fear and activitates the tear down feature in others.
I have seen both on this thread and many others on this site. People will put forth a thought or theory built on facts they have gleaned from various sources. And rather than build a solidly constructed position to the contrary, there are those people who start nitpicking the facts or sources or, devine through mental telepathy the intentions and thoughts of the writer or inject hyperbole into the argument so as to blow the construction down with their mighty wind of moral superoroty.
Rather than taking the low road, why don’t those who disagree with some of the more well reasoned posts here posit a well reasoned position of their own? The facts are out there for those who want to take the time to find them. There is no charge in this country for logic or common sense, so those are free for your use. Why?
That is what a debate is about. You take facts to construct an argument leading to a conclusion.
From what I have seen here, it is my belief that no one takes that route because there is no logical argument that in most cases can be constructed to support the other side. When that happens, it threatens the very pre-conceived notions, prejudices and beliefs gleaned as a result of what others tell them. And when that combination of circumstances presents itself, the individual ego finds it necessary to defend itself by whatever means are available.
When the use of the higher thought process fails them, they revert to tactics further and further down the evolutionary chain of thought. Can’t refute a thought with logic, attack the thought. Throw rocks at the moon. The thought is still there or the moon does not move from the sky, you eventually end up engaged in primal behavior, screaming and foot stomping tht would make a two year old’s tantrum look like a Harvard/Yale debate.
If you have nothing to contribute to a discussion other than petty and poorly veiled attempts to discredit another; nothing more to contribute than wailing and gnashing your teeth in response to another’s thoughts; or notihng more to contribute than by posting a comment designed not to contribute but to agitate, anger or demans others, you really need to be spend some time in front of a mirror to see just how idiotic and infantile you appear to the rest of the world.
To those who do not believe radical Islam is a threat to the US, why do you believe that? What facts, when combined with principles of logic and common sense, led you to that conclusion.
#84…sorry my remark wasn’t directed to you.
I agree with you that we don’t need Dobson telling us what to think – Christian Protestant or not. I’m not so sure though of his real influence. Lots of people tune in but what they do in the voting booth – I’m not sure. I’m sure his statements make people ask questions but I’m not sure how many blindly follow.
#102 29Victor:
Actually “i”, the square root of -1, is an imaginary number.
But, good point!
Watershed – your post 89 gets right to the point of the matter. Have you heard the Islamic community condemn the radical elements? If you did – I missed it.
But you still haven’t refuted my statement.
#95
I am saying the MSA’a are afraid of a rabid, “all Muslims bad” mentality that that can demonstrated right here on this very thread, despite assurances that that kind of thinking is discounted.
#105 granite
How does one stick out one’s tonuge here? Beause I’m stickin’ it a you baby!
You’re right of course. It’s supposed to be “the square root of 2.”
Jim M. #103:
Accuratley and eloquently stated.
Thank you.
“tonuge” = “tongue”
Wow, I’m blowing it in math and English today.
Yeah, Jim M., nicely said. And no math errors.
Er…accurately, rather.
Sheesh!
From #107, “I am saying the MSA’a are afraid of a rabid, “all Muslims bad” mentality that that can demonstrated right here on this very thread, despite assurances that that kind of thinking is discounted.’
So…according to that post, a number of posters on this thread are displaying a rabid mentality.
Wow!
A second salvo 41 minutes after the first one – just in case the first one had been missed, I guess.
#97
I don’t think that the MSA’s are “protesting too much” by showing their concern for a potential whitewashing of their religion. Even a brief look at Horowitz’s views put him nearer the post #77 category than not.
#101
I’m confused, do they “protest too much”, or are they “silent”?
#113
Post 77 dismisses an entire world religion, and I’M the one for ad hominens with the word “rabid”?
If any of you here agree with the last paragraph of post 77, then the MSA’s of this nation have their work cut out for them, and they certainly do NOT “protest too much”.
#114
Clearly you don’t think that. I never said that you did.
I am frustrated by your strange method of responding to comments that were never made. What I did say is that I was (and still am) bothered by you claiming that people here were saying the reason the MSA was said to protest too much was because they were speaking out. When, in fact, the reason some people here feel they are protesting too much is because they are blocking speakers from discussing the very real topic of Islamo-Fascism on their campuses.
Watershed can’t refute the statement made in #2 – but he sure has been all over the map throwing straw men out. Gotta give credit where credit is due, he’s a master at not answering.
#116
They are afraid of the very bigotry that some posters on this thread have demonstrated towards their religion. I cannot blame them, after reading some of the posts. (#77? anyone?)
A public square meeting of “everything that’s so very wrong with your religion” is more likely than not going to cause that kind of reaction.
#117
If you mean your “sword” comment, I addressed that two or three times previously. Please feel free to look back.
RetFireman #77:
Hang in there!
Just curious…other folks here read Bat Ye’or’s books?:
“The Decline of Eastern Christianity: From Jihad to Dhimmitude”
“Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide”
“The Dhimmi: Jews and Christians under Islam”
“Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis”
I highly recommend each of them.
I believe she coined the term
“Dhimmitude”.
Curiously, some are not listed at Amazon.com.
Or, I guess not so curiously.
On October 22nd, 2007 at 3:36 pm, watershed said:
Actually, you are a broken record that has not made one cogent argument that advances your allegations.
“all Muslims bad” mentality that that can demonstrated right here on this very thread”
Like Joseph Goebbels once said; “If you repeat a lie long enough people will begin to believe it.”
I an not buying it no matter how many times you repeat your initial post.
All –
I apologize to all for the repeated postings that basically say the same thing… but I am very confused. In his many post “responding” to me (#s 78, 89, 114, 118) has watershed ever actually addressed what I said? He seems to keep redirecting. Can anyone help me out here?
watershed – I try to engage in conversation with you when we wind up in the same thread, and I think I do so in a respectful manner (admitting mistakes, refraining from name-calling, etc.) Please help me understand what is happening here. You seem to have presented a misunderstanding back in post #71 as to why the “protest to much” comment was made. I have made repeated attempts to explain the truth behind this claim, but you persist in presenting things it that same light, without addressing my explanation. Why is this?
Watershed – please point to the number of your post which refutes the statement of Islam growing by the sword. I apparently missed it.
JW2:
Perhaps referring to the first part of my post #55 might go some way to answer your request, and the question you pose, in #124.
For the sake of argument let’s grant your premise here and agree that this is indeed the message they seek to get out. Wouldn’t their purpose be better served by protesting when Bin Laden speaks or another head-chopping video makes the rounds? Wouldn’t constantly doing that knock the legs out from under people seeking to lump them together?
Really, if that’s their purpose they should be joining Islamofacism Awareness Week, not protesting it.
You keep referencing post #77 as though it proves a point. Can you show me the factual errors in that post?
You cite the last paragraph. The Koran does in fact preach those things. You may be tempted to counter that the Judeo-Christian Bible also teaches hatred and murder in some parts, and you’d be right. But, those parts are discarded or downplayed by modern followers in favor of the more benign messages. In Islam the violence takes center stage, and to enthusiastic applause.
granite –
It is looking like that’s the case here. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I did give him 4 chances. I guess I’m not surprised, just disappointed – I actually thought he would address the concerns I had with his argument.
So…everyone should stick their heads in the sand??? Don’t the abortion rights crowd paint every pro-life person as someone that’s going to fire bomb Planned Parenthood, or shoot a doctor that performs abortions? Those that do commit those attrocities (the abortion bomber, etc) are terrorists just like the Islamic terrorist. But many have no problem publicly condemning the clinic bomber/shooter? Now we have people commiting far more horrific crimes against women (and gays, non-muslims, etc.) just for being born a woman or gay. But many stay silent. I find it hard to believe that anyone would stay silent and allow people to remain ignorant about such brutal treatment of women just so as not to offend a supposedly intelligent college professor. I’m a Catholic, and I’m ashamed of the church cover-up of pedophiles…but that doesn’t mean I want everyone to stay silent! I want them exposed just like the “moderate” muslim should want the islamofacists exposed…they should be leading the charge, just as the Catholics should have been leading the charge to purge the priesthood of pedophiles.
Oh, and the crimes of the Catholic priest are no where near as brutal as what IFAW is featuring, but the libs who hate religion have no trouble condemning Catholics while they stay silent on the brutality of Islamofacists.
#124
I am truly answering your question.
I think they protest the Horowitz meetings because they are afraid that they demonstrate a form of bigotry against their religion, examples of which can be seen on this very thread. (#77)
You (and MM) say that attempting to block these meetings is “protesting too much”, I do not, and think their fears are founded in fact, especially after reading posts on this very thread dismissing their entire religion. (#77)
The fact thatthere has been a rally around poster #77, instead of anyone even politely chiding him for his extreme bigotry against Islam, proves that maybe the MSA’a have a hard road ahead of them.
JW2 – well he shot at me concerning my statement from post #2 – I said please refute the statement. I’ve asked a bunch of times and he won’t. He’s an equal opportunity kinda guy.
watershed (#130)
#77?
Which # did you mean to put there?
It’s been #78 the whole time! All apologies.
#129
You bring up an interesting analogy. What did you do to publicly show that the Catholic Church was at fault with the cover up, and what do you think should Islamic moderates do that you did? (I ask that in a non-agressive manner. I am truly curious.)
Dear Penn State policy makers:
How unfortunate that you have decided to drop your drawers, bend over and liberally apply the Vaseline in response to the intimidation tactics of the quote, “Muslim Student Association” on your campus.
My response to YOUR response: a withdrawal of my application for one of your four-year degree programs. My son and daughter are both Marines, and you are CLEARLY enabling the enemy.
Not one dime of my money is going into your coffers. Not now, not ever.
My son who is away from home and family serving his country also has choices. He’s been considering enrollment in one of your distance degree programs for a couple of months now(as do many of our active-duty military personnel and their families). He is now choosing to decline enrollment with Penn State.
Yes, he’ll gladly continue to fight for your freedom and your right to allow these Islamic thugs to speak freely on your campus… but he’s not going to give you a dime of his money. Neither should any other enlisted man or woman, or member of a military family.
Here’s a wake up call for you: you have a lot of competition out there, and I have many choices. It is MY choice to enroll in a university that doesn’t have a problem standing up to overt islamo-fascist arm-twisting and thuggery…. or an activist “Muslim Student Association” enabling those who would murder my offspring.
#130 “…even politely chiding him for his extreme bigotry against Islam…”
Was #77 (now evidently renumbered to #78) factually incorrect?
I would recommend that one read Bat Ye’or’s books, and Robert Spencer’s books (as well as lots of other history), before one says #77/#78 RetFireman is incorrect.
Ms. Ye’or uses actual, contemporary Muslim sources that describe and praise the terrific slaughter and booty of their campaigns and raids over the centuries.
Mr. Spencer uses the Koran, ahadith (plural of hadith – saying of Muhammad), and Sira (the life of Muhammad).
The CSPI (Center for the Study of Political Islam) terms the Koran, ahadith and Sira The Islamic Trilogy.
#135
The protesters are now “thugs” and “Islamo-fascist enablers”?
The circle is fully complete.
I think #77 actually might have been renumbered to #78.
I was not posting tongue-in-cheek!
FYI – POSTPONED
Pepperdine
Tammy Bruce – 22nd, 7pm, Student Lounge
#136
All sweeping (religious) generalizations are wrong. Including this one.
#138
I hope so. I would hate to think I saw a 7 and it actually was an 8, I would have a hard time excusing my brain for that mistake!
Of course, you’re correct!
What came over me?!
Is Pepperdine even open today??? Santa Annas? Fires???
#142
I just think you can’t paint broad brush against the entire religion of islam as “eveil”, as the very people who protest the meetings saying they are peaceful disprove that.
Correct, this is why it was postponed.
@everyone frustrated with the troll
Please see my above posts esp. #s 80 & 94
The things you are complaing about are the troll’s modus operandi and possibly even their raison d’etre here on this blog (mmmmmm unnecessary Latin).
This is a replay of their comments on SCHIP threads and any other thread upon which they lurk.
From their comments on this thread and others it’s obvious that they arrived here with the preconcieved notion that we are all just a bunch of racist, greedy, kid-hating troglodytes. They reply to all arguments in light of that notion. And nothing you say is going to change that. They take comments out of context, answer questions that weren’t asked, they do not participate in constructive discussion or honest argument. I have said all of this before on other threads and will probably say it again later.
They throw out red meat and do everything else they can to distract commentors from the topic at hand.
But, seriously, folks:
#78’s statements, while they might appear sweeping, are nonetheless for the very most part not incorrect.
Again, read – read – Bat Ye’or’s and Robert Spencer’s books.
I also have the CSPI books, but have not had a chance to start them yet.
We do not have the luxury to make nice, and to offer platitudes (I was considering using “platitudinous statements” – platitudinous=resembling a cliche – but I won’t).
We’re in a war here.
What WILL it take to convince some folks?
29Victor:
Right you are.
You might want to re-read what I actually wrote, Watershed, instead of re-writing my words to fit your narrow and inflexible liberal meme.
Go ahead, now… tell me what I REALLY meant.
You know you want to.
And the war in the US continues
In texas Muslim groups have sued a man for “hate crimes” because he protested outside “Muslim family day” at 6 flags
Video here
#150 -=
Once again “he who is offended first” wins!!!
I’d love to hear why watershed is so upset with post #78. So far it’s been referred to as if it should be obvious but I’m not seeing it so much. Much of what the poster wrote has been fairly documented in many, many places not to mention corroborated by news events everyday.
Of course, ultimately MSA’s would be spending their time more wisely protesting the actual actions of radical Muslims that give their religion a bad name rather than protesting David Horowitz.
#149
Please tell me how I misunderstood/twisted/manipulated this sentence.
“or an activist “Muslim Student Association” enabling those who would murder my offspring.”
So the MSA is enabling the Islamo-fascists? Making them, as I asked in my past post, “Islamo-fascist enablers”?
#152 – best not to wake the sleeping troll.
#152
I have a big problem with the last paragraph, and I am sure the MSA’a do as well.
#154
Why do my contrary opinions get my posts labeled as “troll”? I have been honestly and rationally debating this topic. We just disagree, that’s all. “Troll” is a cop out word.
A new bin Laden tape? What color was his beard?
Islamofacism is to Muslims what Nazi is to germans.
Not all Muslims are Islamofacists but all islamofacists are Muslim.
Feebiebabe – right you are.
(BTW: OT – wolfgangsvault is quite interesting!
Didn’t know that was Bill Graham’s Geburtsname auf Deutsch.
Our sons will love that site.)
#158
‘zactly
But… Many Germans (in Germany)tolerated the Nazi’s while others fought them and were killed. Still other Germans (like my grandpapa here in the U.S.) hated them from afar and denounced them.
#159
OT
If anyone gets a hold of the book Bill Graham Presents (it’s out of print, i am pretty sure), it is one of the greatest rock reads of all time. The man was a genius.
#152
I, on the other hand, thought the last paragraph was very logical and honestly can’t imagine why the MSA should have a problem with it.
I’ll give you honestly, but unforunately, I cannot “cop” to you being rational.
MSA’s should be screaming at the top of their lungs about whats going on in IRAN right now (here, here, or here (just to name a few) in the name of Islam…
I agree, Davis Horowitz (former liberal, right?) is the least of their concerns.
PS. Troll is a term of endearment.
#162
That it’s fact the Koran teaches only hate, bigotry and murder? I imagine they would have an enormous problem with that.
OT: Glad you liked the “vault” I put it on a concert and then clean house… great find…
Did you know his fav band was Allman Bros? Lots of good concerts on there of them….
Crap! I forgot to mention the “can’t we all just get along” line when called for trolling.
My bad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood
Muslim Brotherhood in the West
United States
The Muslim Brotherhood has been active in the US since the 1960s. Its stated goals have included propagating Islam and creating havens for Muslims in the US, and integrating Muslims.
A main strategy has been dawah or Islamic renewal and outreach. In the 1960s, groups such as U.S. military personnel, prison inmates and African-Americans were specifically targeted for dawah.
Muslim activists involved with the Muslim Brotherhood have started organizations in the US including the Muslim Students Association in 1963,[46] North American Islamic Trust in 1971, the Islamic Society of North America in 1981, the American Muslim Council in 1990, the Muslim American Society in 1992, and the International Institute of Islamic Thought in the 1980s.[47]
The Holy Land Foundation trial has led to the release as evidence of several documents on the Muslim Brotherhood. In one of these documents, “Ikhwan in America”, it is revealed that the activities of the Muslim Brotherhood in the US include going to camps to do weapons training (referred to as Special work by the Muslim Brotherhood)[48], as well as engaging in counter-espionage against US government agencies such as the FBI and CIA (referred to as Securing the Group).[49]
Unfortunately the last paragraph of post #78 is hard to contest. Much of the actions of radical Muslims – honor killings, beheadings, stonings, jihads, riots over cartoons, slavery, oppression of women – are all from the Koran. These actions are considered righteous according to the Koran. And it is pretty hard to claim that the above actions are based in love, tolerance of others and nonviolence. If that’s hard for the MSA’s to accept, they should be protesting those in their religion that take the words of the Koran to such extremes, not against those that stand up against those extremes. Maybe the Koran needs a new testament?
watershed (#164)
My mistake. I thought you were talking about the last paragraph of #152, since that is the post to which you directed the comment.
However, looking back at #78 – the last paragraph does not actually say that the Koran only teaches hate, bigotry, and murder. And it is my understanding that it is a fact that the Koran advocates those things.
Watershed – RE: Quran –
“And fight them until there’s no fitnah (polytheism) and religion is wholly for Allah.” Quran 8:39
So, what would be your interpretation of that little beauty?
#170
My interpretation is that you are cherrypicking a one sentence statement from a book that has thousands of pages, and making a sweeping generalization of a religion and all of its followers from that statement.
I have never said that terrorism isn’t an issue, and I have also said the the way women are treated in Islamic countries is abysmal. I am saying that the Islamic Americans in this county aren’t full of hate and murder, and probably have a huge issue with a traveling show making the same slights you just did against their religion.
Can someone point out a non-abrogated Koran section that requires believers to treat NON-Muslims well?
Key points:
non-abrogated sections: i.e., later chronologically (not later in the Koran itself, becauase it is not arranged chronologically), and thus abrogating=superceding (which would indicate that these later sections are now the ones with meaning and power) the earlier sections;
…that orders believers to treat NON-Muslims well?
No?
…
…
Still waiting…and waiting…and waiting…and….
Or how ’bout this guy…..
Who properly explains how properly to beat your wife
What say you here?
Whoa!
because….
#168
Maybe you should hear what their views are before you say that, you know, them being the ones all MUSLIM and all.
From #171: “…with a traveling show making the same slights….”
There it is!
Another sneering, derisive, dismissive comment.
Ah, the gift that keeps on giving.
It’s hard to call it a slight when there are news stories everyday of these things going on. Again, Islamic Americans should be joining in the stand against these atrocities, not protesting those that are pointing out its horrors.
I’d love to but they’re too busy protesting those pointing out the atrocities.
#176
Sneering and derisive? the word “slight”?
Just a little bit hyperbolic, man.
“Maybe you should hear what their views are….”
Anybody ever read about the tactic of al-taqiyya (dissimulation) in Islam?
Just Google “taqiyya” and read.
bipartisancomplainer:
Well said!
#178
No actually, one of the aspects of their protests is to (quote from above):
“organize a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.”
Calling it a “travelling show” sure sounds sneering and derisive.
Watershed, my point in all this is that these “Muslim” groups express more out rage at the mere expression/awareness/freedom of opinion surrounding the “radical” sects then the sects they are purported to “oppose”…well, then where is the outrage??!!! (Crickets).
BUT, have an awareness week about the enemy within, and all hell breaks loose!
They would carry much more weight IMHO if when complaining about (IFAW), they were out there publicly and emphatically denouncing these militant and radical sects themselves.
Perhaps if they were doing that already, there would be no need for this awareness week to begin with…wouldn’t you agree?
No actually, one of the aspects of their protests is to (quote from above):
“organize a forum Oct. 29 in which professors and local Muslims discuss and answer questions about Islam.”
That doesn’t sound like much of a protest. How about simply denouncing it – loudly and clearly. After all, these are horrors we’re talking about so denouncing from the highest hilltop should not be an issue for peaceful Muslims. Denouncing it is exactly what Islamofascism Awareness Week is all about so it’s the perfect time for the peaceful Muslims to join in.
#185
I used that quote to respond to your claim in #178 that you’d “love to” talk to them but they were too busy to engage in dialogue about their religion due their protests. And I say they OFFER an open forum on their own religion, open to the public. An invitation to understand that not all muslims are fed hate and murder from the Koran.
WATERSHED –
Just like I would listen to the Rev Moon’s views? Listen, I take overall credibility into account when I choose to trust their opinion….Moderate Muslims…yes. Those who don’t dennounce the BS that goes on in certain sects of their religion. NO. And guess what…that’s not close minded, that’s using a little common sense (something that seems to escape you and your little microcosm)
Just because they are muslim…doesn’t make them right. Just because I am a non-muslim…doesn’t make me wrong.
TRUST BUT VERIFY i believe is how that ol’ saying goes.
granite, maybe thicken your skin a bit and lighten up. watershed is not a troll, and he’s being pretty damn rational and civil.
I’d like to see the Spencer’s and Malkins of the world say what they really mean, because I think they mean a whole lot more than they’ve said to this point. Give me some Hitch. I’m not a big fan of any organized religion, but it’s more than obvious that Islam is a particularly backward and dangerous religion. Let’s grow a pair and be honest about what we’re really talking about here. Unless Islam undergoes a massive reformation, it seems irrational to believe that any true believing Muslim can legitimately be considered to be “moderate”. As someone else suggested, Islam needs the Koran equivalent of the New Testament. With all due respect to the millions and millions of Muslims who are good people living good and peaceful lives, Islam as I understand it appears to include core beliefs at odds with modern society and basic human rights.
#184
i think the Muslim communities at these schools are afraid of the radical view that the Koran feeds Musilms hate and murder and that they will be lumped in with the terrorists. And I say, from reading examples on this very thread, that there is probably some truth behind their fears.
#187
To dismiss moderate Muslims on students campuses as Moonies might be one of the reasons they protest. Just a guess.