New Democrat strategy: We must stimulate the amygdalae!
This is high-larious. The Hill reports on an internal Democrat strategy memo complaining that the Democrat Party is too hyper-rational and lacks emotional appeal.
For real. They think “SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILLLLLDREN!” is too bland and accountant-like:
Democrats are losing the battle for voters’ hearts because the party’s message lacks emotional appeal, according to a widely circulated critique of House Democratic communications strategy.
“Our message sounds like an audit report on defense logistics,” wrote Dave Helfert, a former Appropriations spokesman who now works for Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-Hawaii). “Why are we defending [the State Children’s Health Insurance Program] instead of advocating a ‘Healthy Kids’ plan?”
Helfert sent the memo this week to an e-mail list of all Democratic press secretaries and communications directors after staffers met on Monday to discuss rolling out the Democrats’ latest message.
He said the meeting left him cold because it focused on what polling shows voters want rather than how to present persuasive messages. Republicans have done a better job by developing poll data into focus group-tested messages like “culture of life” and “defending marriage,” along with attacks like “cut and run” and “plan for surrender” in Iraq, he argued.
My favorite part:
“I’m not trying to stage a coup,” Helfert said. “I’m hoping leadership and some of the members will embrace these principles.”
His memo is sharply critical of Republican policies but also suggests a neurological explanation for Republican message success: By using emotional appeals and warning of dire threats, Republicans can trigger neurons called “amygdalae” in the temporal lobe, which is the seat of the “fight or flight” response in the brain.
“Almost every Republican message contains a simple and direct moral imperative, a stark contrast between good and evil, right and wrong, common sense and fuzzy liberal thinking,” Helfert wrote. “Meanwhile, we’re trying to ignite passions with analyses of optimum pupil-teacher ratios.”
Yesterday, it was a “vote against S-CHIP is a vote against Jesus!” Last week, it was “Bush blows up people for his amusment!” And, of course, there’s the “MaglaGONG” strategy to deflect criticism of Democrat campaign finance shenanigans. And the open-borders DREAM Act agitprop.
The Democrats’ problem isn’t understimulation of the amygdalae. It’s overstimulation. Perhaps a political lobotomy–separating the nutroots lobe from the party’s thalamus–might be a far more effective prescription.
***
Ed Morrissey: “The Democrats have no problem exciting the amygdalae of their followers. The problem comes when the rest of the people use the rest of their brain to analyze their agenda and their tactics. Helfert might want to have the Democrats address those issues if they want to discover why they keep getting outboxed by a lame-duck President.”
Betsy Newmark: “Democrats just can’t believe that sometimes, people actually like Republican ideas but must just be fooled by a deceptive message. And why is he so convinced that Democrats don’t know how to craft emotional messages? What about all those “do it for the children” messages that Democrrats are constantly using? Isn’t that an emotional appeal?”
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Peep – I was trying to be diplomatic. Something I’m not especially good at
A strategist is paid to worry. The Dems aren’t losing the public on anything. The strategist is looking for ways to be more effective and our echo chamber is hyper analyzing his totally trivial words as if that matters, when every single poll that no one besides me wants to talk about has the Dems two to one against the reps.
Keep it up and make the right blogosphere completely irrelevant.
The Democratic Party used to be the party of national security and our forward projection into the outside world, while Republicans used to be notorious for their isolationism. All that changed with Vietnam, which traumatized the Democrats. If today’s Democrats were to shake off the defeatism that has infected and corroded them for the last 35 years, they would once more be a formidable force in American politics. Then, they would be in a very strong position to attack the Bush Administration’s handling of Iraq on incompetent planning, waste, profiteering and mismanagement. Instead, they have become Chicken Littles in facing Islamofascism. Instead of more emotion, they need more rationality, as well as a concerted effort to get in touch with what is really on our minds.
Can’t we just give liberals a medullaectomy?
It’s so funny that I just learned about the parts of the brain in my psychology course. I love the “Four Fs”: Fighting, fleeing, feeding, and mating.
polls are for losers …
Dewey vs Truman, Carter vs Reagan, Gore vs Bush, Kerry vs Bush … the list goes on and on …
I am 61 and have never gotten a single call for any kind of “poll” in my entire life … I am sure there are many millions just like me in that respect …
polls are like the weather … if you don’t like what they say wait a little bit and the polling sample will change and the poll will reflect a completely different opinion … just as the winds will change and the current weather will move on down the road and be replaced by something else …
I don’t … and won’t … live my life based on meaningless polls …
Show me that poll. I have found four and I am willing to find one hundred if necessary. Don’t claim you have polls without identifying them because you don’t. The public is not with the Reps on this issue. Period.
You have seen NO POLLS that say the public is split. What you have seen is the public is in favor of the Reps on policy which is true and makes the fact that the public is two to one for the Dems even more reprehensible.
Guess what when the public is presented with a poll that defines specific policy they like the policy of the Reps more, however they don’t know which party has which policy, all they know is the heartless Reps are against health insurance for little kids while they keep funding an endless and unnecessary war.
I wrote a piece explaining this phenomenon
a phenomenon in which the public likes the policy the Reps present but then trusts the Dems on the issue, and if all you choose to ignore that this phenomenon is actually happening, that is your business, but you contribute to the continued irrelevance of our side of the blogosphere when you do it.
Mike: Get off your poll fixation. I can make a poll to come up with ANY conclusion you want. If you want one that says Hitler was a fantastic leader, I’ll get you. If you want one to say he was the devil himself, I’ll get you one.
As a Republican, I agree with Mike Volpe’s reasoning as far as it stresses the need for the Republican Party leadership to find its way again, and then to communicate the same to the electorate.
But I wouldn’t go so far as to take that to mean that we have to try to match the Democrats in terms of appealing to emotions. That’s playing to their strength, not ours.
Are the Donkeys going to say that Republicans are a bunch of heartless, child-hating, woman-hating, minority-hating meanies in November of 2008? And corrupt, too? Of course they are. Even if they wouldn’t be demogoguing S-CHIP, then they’d find something else. Their base voters need this; everybody else has heard it so often, in election after election, that they’ve come to expect it.
We’re not going to change anybody’s mind by saying, “Hey, look! The Democrats are corrupt!” The only reaction that’s going to generate is, “Yeah, so what?”
- Barney Franks was corrupt, running a homosexual brothel from his home.
- William “Freeze-Dried” Jefferson is corrupt.
- Bill Clinton was corrupt and won the presidency twice.
- Hillary Clinton is corrupt, and will be the Democrat nominee for president.
- Marion Barry was corrupt, went to jail and got re-elected to his old job when he got out.
- Al Gore was corrupt, and won the Democrat nomination for president.
Ted Kennedy killed a woman by leaving her to die a slow, horrible death – then used his family’s name to escape justice. That’s corrupt.
So what?
Nobody cares that the Donkeys are corrupt. I can’t think of one who lost an election on that issue. Voters do care if Republicans are corrupt, or seem to be. Getting into a finger-pointing session of “Who’s corrupt?” is a sure-fire way to lose more Republican seats in Congress. Nothing more.
Republicans don’t win elections by talking or emoting. They win by showing. Want to win in 2008? Try these demonstrations:
- Build the fence along the Mexican border. Stop catering to illegals.
- Bring some troops home from in Iraq in 2008, but do so as a demonstration of growing success and confidence in victory, and not an admission of defeat and humiliation.
- Show some fiscal restraint in Congress. Refuse to socialize medicine. Use the veto pen when the Donkeys try to bloat the budget and raise taxes.
- Hold the line when it comes to things like preserving traditional ideas of marriage and the family.
- Keep our military strong. Support a strong national defense. Keep finding and killing terrorists overseas.
- Stand up for a strong and independent America when it comes to UN fecklessness and attempts to subvert our sovereignty through things like the Law of the Sea Treaty.
Do these things, and more, and three things will happen, all of them good:
1. The poll numbers will improve;
2. Republicans will begin to break out of the funk they’re in right now, and will start to send in money to the party coffers again; and
3. We can use that money to do things like ad buys to get around the “mainstream” media that’s little more than a megaphone for the Democrats.
The third point above is critical if we’re even going to hope to try to appeal to the electorate through anything other than deeds. But the deeds must come first.
I don’t “snicker” at the Donkeys; I laugh at them, with all the derision and contempt they have so ardently earned. But that doesn’t mean I’m blind to where Republicans are falling down themselves. Where Mike Volpe and I part ways is on the means to get the Republicans back on their feet again.
We need to play to our strengths, not theirs.
Guess what polls are scientific unlike the opinion gathered in the echo chamber of the blogosphere. First, I had no credibility and now I need to get off the polling even though it is unanimous and overwhelming.
Guess what, I think this bill is atrocious. I think that it would damage our country if we expanded SCHIP the way the Dems want. However, the atrociousness of the bill is peanuts compared to the way that the Reps have handled the issue politically.
You want to pretend that most of the public isn’t thinking that most reps are war mongers who care more about funding a never ending war than helping poor kids get health care, that is your business, however it won’t change that in fact it is so.
Every single person that has down played my polls has provided no polling.
Yes, please, find me a poll that says that Hitler was fantastic.
I didn’t find one poll I found four and if you want my next post will have a hundred and they will ALL say the same thing.
political group sponsored polls are manipulative in the way they phrase questions to better ensure the chances that they will get the results they want …
Further: Mike – since you seem to feel you have all the answers and the rest of us are dweebs…why don’t you run for office. You can do all the stuff which you find the current leadership to be either not doing or doing poorly. It’s easy to tell somebody else they are doing something wrong – now get off your butt and you do it right.
#98 DesertLover & #100 conservativesRus:
Reagrding polls, I’d recommend to you and the rest of the folks (as I did a week or two ago at another discussion) an episode of “Yes, Minister”, or “Yes, Prime Minister” (I don’t remember which), where a senior bureaucrat (Sir Humphrey) is explaining to a junior bureaucrat (Bernard) how the results of a poll depend on who is asking the questions.
Hilarious.
And correct!
Polls are scientific? Now that’s a laugh. There is only one poll that matters – it’s what happens in the voting booth. And has been pointed out repeatedly here – the other polls have been notoriously wrong.
Regulus,
my point is you cannot counter an emotional arguement with a logical one and win. If the Dems trot out a little kid to appeal to people’s emotions, then the Reps must make it clear that everytime the government wants to expand what they do is trot out a victim to appeal to your heart strings, and everytime the government expands there is CORRUPTION. That is the emotional issue. The Reps have to pound the fact that the Dem’s plan will bloat the government and then that same bloated government will corrupt as every single other bloated government ever created corrupted.
That is the emotional issue, and furthermore, the Reps have to aggressively sell their alternative to the public.
The public thinks the Reps are simply against SCHIP when the Reps have their own proposal. How does that happen and how do we not blame the Rep leadership if it is happening.
conservativesRus
Didn’t Freud talk about poll fixation? I forget. Psych 101 was a long time ago.
DesertLover #98
Well said.
Polls are for someone who wants power, not someone who wants to lead. Worrying about public opinion is why Clinton didn’t off Bin Laden in the ’90s (it’s also why he got a dog).
The masses want someone who follows polls like a strong woman wants a weak husband. She enjoys pushing him around for a while but eventually gets sick of him because he’s such a wuss.
This borders on shame, Mike. “The Dems aren’t losing the public on anything?”
Are you joking?
1. Shamnesty (in congress, not the polls)
2. S-(bull)Chip
3. Withdrawing from Iraq
4. The Petraeus Ad
Shall we go on?
Mike, I think you fear the MSM. And rightfully so. Every single story is spun to the Left.
So, as a strategist (are you one? I don’t know you from a sack of potatoes)
what is the aikido strategy in this situation.
The Left has huge momentum in the media on every issue- but no traction on the Hill to build on this momentum.
How does the opposition use this hollow advantage? (more and more people are reading Michael Yon about the war for example, making Lara Logan and Christiane Amanpour less useful)
Are you keeping up, Mike? Or just scolding all of us non-players?
#101 Regulus:
Correct.
As I said above, reps can’t beat the leftists with “leftist lite”; and
as George Allen said, the best defense is a good offense.
Again, you want to stay in your echo chamber you can. Polls are scientific and a lot more scientific than the opinion of the echo chamber of a blogosphere.
Interestingly, no one has presented any alternative polling. No one seems to actually show me any polls that say anything different than anything that I have shown. Just everyone disregards it as though it isn’t important.
You are all correct. The important story is not that every poll has this as a huge loser for the Reps, the real story is that some obscure operative used a funny sounding word. You are all correct and I am wrong thank you for setting me straight.
Mike: You are digging pretty fast here. The hole is getting deeper. Digging faster won’t get you out.
You asked for it so here it comes. I’ll make my poll very simple. I’ll ask a single person and 100% of my polling sample will say Hitler was fantastic. I’ll start with the President of Iran. I’ll stop there too. See 100%.
#101 – great points. Just goes to show you, please one or the other…you will please no one if you try to sit on the fence and please both.
#87 – Reagan was a stand up guy. Your right. He was the one politician that never gave you a bunch of lip service, excellent communicator and stayed the course. He was very logical and pragmatic.
The only instance I remember him ever appealing to emotion was when the Space Shuttle Challanger Exploded, and he came on that night and spoke directly to us kids. I was in the third grade, but I really thought he was talking to ME. He just had that way about him. (really wish he was here today).
Poll numbers are inconclusive in my book. To many factors allow too much room for error (remember exit polls during Kerry/Bush election)…
Mike:
I’ve been resisting the temptation to say this for dozens and dozens of posts.
However, more and more I am developing the suspicion that your posts are the product of a “mole” from the other side.
It’s hard to put my finger on it, but your posts somehow give the impression of being defeatist and discouraging.
I am saying this with respect, as you can tell.
Am I wrong here?
ROFLMAO,
You must be High.
That’s great, too bad the Gallup people don’t ask one person but rather a proper sampling of the American people. If you want to pretend as though you are smart and slick go ahead, however comparing a made up poll, to one done by a professional company which is supposed to be scientific, is asinine.
None of you have shown me any scientific polls that say anything different than anything I have said. You all just pretend as though what I am saying isn’t actually happening.
Well, when the plethora of commercials roll out that paint each and every Republican that voted against SCHIP as a war monger who had no problem funding an endless war but couldn’t find any money to make sure poor little kids had health insurance, just remember who told you that you were making the blogosphere irrelevant by hyper analyzing the funny word of the obscure operative.
The fact. Mike, buhhhhhhbeee, are you joking? The map is not the territory.
I live in the most Marxist Communist Loonie Bin in America- Berkeley.
People think everybody here is the same as the loudest voices against ANY war.
But there is a solid core of people here who ARE NEVER POLLED about any issue.
We are taxpaying property owners.
Do you have any polls that focus on us?
How scientific can polls be when the polling sample is usually skewed to non-property owners (even though it is balanced in terms age, income, sex, blah blah).
Also, social “science” research is largely a cess pool of Lefty bilge these days- and has been by and large since the term Progressive was abandoned by its founders around WW2, only to be revitalized by Baby Boomer wannabes who now run the asylums of learning for “hire”.
So, Mike, let’s not be silly and confuse polls – in general- with responsible science or facts.
Polls Scientific….. still laughing.
hahahahhahahha.
Mike, would you agree though…even in science…”garbage in, garbage out?”.
Mike, I am sure you just decided to dismiss the request made of you to explain the simple fact THAT-
Despite a 2:1 poll advantage which shows “the public” favors the Dhimmi position on S-Chip, the reality on the ground is that the Dhimmi majority in Congress cannot get the votes to override a presidential veto.
Who cares about POLLS when the people who supposedly are in 2:1 favor of this nonsense are not changing the minds of their own representatives to vote against the President?
…and what always falls out of the back end of something that Gallups?
#107 mike volpe
1) Yes you can. I do all the time. You figure out which emotion is being manipulated and disprove it logically.
2) Then Republicans need to reframe the argument instead of letting the Dems and the MSM decide what who we are and what we are going to fight over.
For far too long Republicans have been on the defensive, and that’s a bad place to be. We are not setting the agenda, we are responding to the other side’s agenda.
Remember when Bush tried to overhaul Social Security? It was the right thing to do, it had the support of the Republican base, and yet many Republicans were to scared of what the MSM & the polls said to do what needed to be done, so everything fell apart and the Dems got a victory and we lost Congress anyway.
#120 bear1909:
“Who cares about POLLS when the people who supposedly are in 2:1 favor of this nonsense are not changing the minds of their own representatives to vote against the President?”
Great point – especially when the leftists’ supporters most certainly must contain a significantly higher percentage of tax consumers – who have much more free time to fax and call, etc – than taxpayers, when compared to the reps.
BTW…OT:
Speaking of Bay Area bands – listening to some Cold Blood.
Like Janice Joplin meets Blood, Sweat, & Tears…only better than both!
Well, if we’re going to obsess on the Gallup S-Chip poll, here’s an analysis by someone who knows polls (and a response linked to at the bottom).
#122 29Victor:
Well said. Correct, correct, correct.
Again, the best defense is a good offense.
And, reps, please do NOT try to be “leftist lite”.
(Sorry to sound like Johnny-one-note.)
I get it – the rearranging of deck chairs by Democrats’ on their ill ship Titanic isn’t due to their self-confessed losing of the public. It’s really because things are working so well!! (As defined by all the battles they’ve won on so many issues.) Errr, or maybe it could be massive denial and cognitive dissonance on your part in order to maintain an otherwise completelynon-workable stance, Mike?
Well, I get the feeling one blog that wasn’t very relevant to start with has become even less so. So you might have something there.
Two polls with basically the same question but very different results.
Granite:
Thanks-
Now if you are into the Chambers Brothers we have even more common ground.
The problem, methinks, is that your average liberal’s amygdalae portion of the brain is too filled with Bush Derangement Syndrome to fit anything else in.
Yup, bear. And when the Amnesty Bill was up earlier this year, people were offering all sorts of polls to back up both sides, pro & con. But no poll reflected the reality of Americans actually shutting down the Senate PBX – and shutting down Amnesty (for the time being, at least).
Milwaukee Mike-
Around here in Berkeley, it is BDS, AND blood sugar toxicity.
The hapless Vegan/Vegetarians are awash in carbohydrates and fats (breads, cheeses, pizza, pasta with primavera sauce, veggies dipped in ranch dressing, fake burgers, tater tots…u name it).
They lack protein. Protein is brain food. Not taking in enough protein because they lack the stomach size to eat enough “vegetable protein”, causes their metabolisms to believe they are starving- so they store fat and fluids.
They are walking gluts of unprocessed sugar and lipids. Piles of goo in lay terms.
It affects their thinking because they believe they are starving and therefore under siege.
If they ate enough protein (make friends with cows and other edible animals) they would 1) LOSE SOME WEIGHT; 2) rely less on synthetic fiber (and be less full of you-know-what); 3)and kick start their metabolisms to process all the sugar in their bloodstream from their carbohydrate overdosing.
THEN and only then will their brains function less like a bug light and more like the miraculous organ that it is.
Peeps: SNAP! I know it’s so.
#128 – Thanks much. See – I told you polls are scientific.
Aren’t “repeatable results” a requirement for science?
#128 jsr:
Excellent illustration.
That’s essentually the premise of the scene in the “Yes, Minister/Prime Minister” episode I refer to above.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree then. I’d concede your point if it were Republicans who were being portrayed as bloating the government and being corrupt – that’s no small part of what killed us in 2006.
And emotional appeals can, and do, play some role, even for Republicans. For example, Reagan’s “Wolf in the forest” ad, and the ad showing Dukakis looking ridiculous and pathetic riding in that tank turret were both highly effective.
Ultimately, though, I think that the electorate expects the Republicans to be the “grown-up” party, and to appeal to a grown-up sensibility. That underlies why Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry lost in their presidential bids – because Republicans were able to frame the election as a serious choice in dangerous times.
Clinton won twice because he was able to frame his elections as, “The Cold War’s over, let’s party!” – and voters were tired after nearly 50 years of staring down the Soviet Bear and wanted a “vacation,” while Republicans tried unsuccessfully to point out what a lout Clinton was.
Success or failure in 2008 may well come down to whether Republicans can frame the election as one of serious times, with serious choices about the direction of our country and our place in the world. Do this, and we might just win.
Get into a p*ssing contest with the Donkeys about emotional issues, and say hello to
Evita“Madame President” (and the “First Spouse”).Bear:
Only their song “Time Has Come Today” that a band would play at high school dances.
Sorry….
Correct, and I already mentioned that when it comes to the specifics of the policy the public is on our side. I already referenced this poll as further proof of the complete lack of political competence on the Reps side. In fact, I referenced it in this piece.
Don’t you think it is totally shameful that the public agrees with the Reps on the specific policy however trusts the other party when it comes to the issue.
If you think that the overwhelming majority of people will be able to know anything about the specific policy you are fooling yourself. Most people aren’t going to know that it covers people up to 62K, or 42K, or 22K. All they will know is that Reps don’t want to cover poor kids.
When someone actually explains to them the specifics of the policy then yes they agree with the Reps, making the Reps bungling of the matter even worse. Most people will not have a quick reference guide on the specifics of SCHIP before they vote, however they will rememeber the cute kid who begged for health insurance.
One of the following is the definition of a “poll”. The other is a survey.
Can you tell which is which?
1. to take a general or comprehensive view of or appraise, as a situation, area of study, etc.
1. a sampling or collection of opinions on a subject, taken from either a selected or a random group of persons, as for the purpose of analysis.
C-O-N jecture, Dude. Oh wait. The polls say this is a fact. Sorry. My bad.
Granite:
Country Joe and The Fish “awwwww….sweet Lorraine….”
I doubt if any of us could actually guess what could be the One Overwhelming Issue – if there is one – that will be the big deal a year from now. Mebbe Kerry will tell more late-campaign “jokes” – he’s a kind giver that way!
As I said earlier – Mike if you have the answers – please run for office and then you can proclaim exactly how you think it should be done.
I cannot help my self. Your post has stimulated my amygdalae into making me respond to this post.
Everything you write is intellectual stimulating. Some things on this and Hot Air DO stir up visceral anger at injustices, such as the attack at the USMC recruiting office and the vandalism of the wall, and the REPEATED and CONTINUED seating of CodePink activists inside the Capitol who recently assaulted the Secretary of State.
My visceral reaction for the latter included hoping that as the video went on, that I’d see the Capitol police start beating that “lady” with their nightsticks as they affected her arrest. They just don’t deal with protesters the way they used to. Pity. Ah, good times, good times….
So, I guess I’ll stifle my disappointment and put my amygdalae to rest now, and instead focus on some other “amys” — like Amy Brennanan, and Amy Acker. They’re much prettier to look at than some clump of brain matter hidden deep inside my skull, don’t you think?
#142 Peeps:I bet its detonation of a nuke in Mecca.
I’ve been psycho-delo-sized!
eh, Mike. I noticed you got ZERO icksnay ZIP comments on yer article re snickering about Dhimmicrats.
I wish I could speak for the entire blogosphere like you did in the article. And for the entire Republican party like you did in the article.
Have you been communicating with any Republican officials at all about this?
The article sounds like you want to position yourself as the one lone lunatic who called the “trend” while casting the rest of the conservative universe as a group of “cheerleaders” who “pick apart” the folly of the Dhimmicrats.
Let me know how that works out for you. Sounds like a shameless career move.
“…i can see you’ve had your fun…”
now picture a 5th grade class getting to listen to that 45 during a rainy day lunch session….
“WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH….time has come today….”
and you get- yes ladies and gentaminz- da Bear
Conserve Rus,
Here is how I would have approached the issue a long time ago
I have way too many skeletons in my closet to ever run for office, however approaching this issue correctly is not that difficult.
I wonder if there’s Bizzaro world scenerio where a guy on DU or Kos is freaked out after finding a poll on something or other where Republicans were supported 2 to 1 over Democrats?
No, the bizarro world is where an entire community is more interested in a funny word said by an obscure operative over the fact that their side is getting crushed politically on an issue. That is a bizarro world. Again, there is an echo chamber here and that is fine. I love to argue so it makes it more interesting for me, however everything you have said, I have addressed at one time or another whether here or in previous blog posts of mine.
If you all want to debate whether or not this is a political winner for the Dems you can, however it won’t change the fact that it is a huge political winner for them. Why do you think after getting it vetoed, they didn’t compromise but merely put another bill out in the House, because by doing so they kept the issue alive.
Mike said in his blog
That plays well with the choir. But it didn’t swing the veto override. Address that Mike. Or else, drop the argument. You’ve been overwhelmed here and have failed to do anything accept repeat your blog article- which no one felt moved to comment on.
Were the Repubs supposed to pimp a child to respond “emotionally” to the Dhimmicrats?
Didn’t have to. They listened to their constituencies and let the pollsters and MSM spin away.
Veto override fails. Congressional approval rating stays in toilet.
Mike, I wouldn’t hire you to be my stategist a second time because it doesn’t appear that you listen to opposing views in order to find a stimulating and valid way to sell me on your position.
In the meantime, you bang away incessantly with the same flawed argument and the fatally flawed premise that polls are scientific.
C’mon.
No Way – you mean you have more skeletons in your closet than those who have drowned a woman, done time for cocaine, had the FBI find bribe money in your freezer and any number of other things. I find that amazing.
Skeletons in a closet don’t keep you from anything.
And further Mike, have you thought about how these Republican ads would stuff the S-CHIT issue into the Donkeys face?
“The Dhimmicrats- in such a hurry to socialize medical care for millions of Americans. Did Nancy Pelosi know something about Al-Qaeda’s impending attack that would require massive medical attention to US casualties?
While the Dhimmicrats were being soft on National Security and visiting Damascus to plot the downfall of Northern Iraq, were they planning the socialized medicine debacle because they knew they would leave us vulnerable to attack?”
It cuts both ways, Mike.
I will always favor an offensive strategy that doesn’t counter attack against feints, foils, and misdirection.
“Don’t shoot until you see the whites of their eyes.”
Pimping kids is getting to the bottom of the barrel. DREAM Act is even lower “Don’t make the children pay for the mistakes of their parents.”
Puke.
Ahh, yes everybody bringing their “45s” to school for spinnin’ lunchtime stax o’ wax. (Kids bring diff “45s” now, of couse.)
Of course, I gotta few years on ya and might have have played the song with my first band – jr high version – at one gig or another, but it wasn’t a tune we covered. Did a rip-roarin “Hey Joe”, tho.
It didn’t swing the veto override. Who cares? You think the public cares about the dynamics of the way in which the legislature works. They don’t. What they know is that the Dems want to provide health insurance to poor kids, and the Reps have dug in and won’t allow it, and because of the war mongering President who insists on funding a war but vetoing health insurance for poor kids, the poor kids can’t get their insurance while the war continues.
That is what the public sees whether or not this echo chamber chooses to see it as well or not.
Now, I am supposed to believe that one hundred polls whose data is basically the exact same aren’t scientific.
Your right my arguement is flawed because I am looking at an overwhelming number of polls that say the exact same thing. Your right the public just says one thing to ever pollster that calls but in reality they are all really thinking something else.
Your right all of these pollsters make an obscene amount of money but none of them know what they are doing.
My arguement isn’t flawed. I am with everyone here politically. I just realize that this happy facade that the right blogosphere has put on the issue is not the reality of the issue.
Mike this is hilarious.
They are in no position to compromise.
They have to resist giving the President anything he wants.
And when they have to give him money to continue the war they don’t favor anymore, they have caved.
So they cannot compromise on sh*t.
What a moronic argument you make on this point.
The issue is dead. The Dhimmicrats have managed to scrape its road killed carcass up and hoist it onto a pole claiming it is still alive.
Donkey is a polite word for “Ass”.
They are in a position to compromise however it makes no political sense to compromise. They have the issue won politically what is the point of compromising. If they compromise they lose the issue politically. That is why they aren’t compromsing. It isn’t that they aren’t in a position to compromise. It is that their position weakens if they compromise. The longer this stays an issue in the front pages the better it is for Democrats. That is why they aren’t compromising.
The issue isn’t dead. Come next August and September every Republican that voted against SCHIP will be painted as a heartless war monger who found money for an endless war but no money to give health insurance to poor children.
What are you new to politics? Do you not see how easy it will be to run commercials against every single politician that voted against this bill painting the Rep as such.
Mike, Republican voters care. And that is important to those who want to salvage what is left of the base they abandoned with drunken sailor spending.
You keep referring to the “public”. That is a meaningless term.
Also, keeping this turd from becoming LAW is important to taxpayers. You don’t pay much in taxes do you. You don’t earn very much money, do you. You don’t have much money invested in growth oriented accounts do you.
Your narrative on this issue betrays you on these points.
So there is another group within the public who care.
Also, do you think this vaunted “public” you are referencing remembers what last month’s poll results were so they could figure out how to think?
Give us all a break here.
Finally- while I appreciate your contrarian tendencies on this matter, I think your arguments fall flat. You don’t appear to grasp the fact that winning legislative battles are essential bellweather markers for success on the campaign trail.
Can you win? That is the question voters will be asking.
Who carea about “time for a change” mantras when the Dhimmicrats have kicked their own butts since the 06 elections.
There are bigger fish frying than some 12 year old kid whose parents are grifters with not an ounce of scruples to prevent them from pimping their own kid.
Bad form. Bad move by the Dhimmis.
Out.
And if anyone believes that Clinton won because of polls they’re wrong. Clinton won the first time because Bush the Elder turned his back on conservatism and raised taxes giving Ross Perot a chance to steal away enough (dumb) voters to give Clinton the victory.
Perot helped Clinton win the second time too but Republicans helped him more by running a giant puppet that talked about himself in the third person against him.
Clinton never got 50% of the vote.
and…The Democrats in Congress are doing what the polls tell them to do, but their approval rating (another poll) is lower than the President’s.
Mike – while I don’t think the public is especially bright, there still are enough of them where there is a connection between their voting and their wallet. Many politicians even understand this. Hence, no veto override.
First, I am totally against SCHIP. My problem is not with the Reps position but rather with the way they have handled it politically.
That is great that the base will be in favor of anyone that voted against SCHIP. I didn’t say they should vote for SCHIP. Unfortunately, if you lose the moderates, as the Reps have on the issue, by sowing up the base, you will lose the election.
Getting the base alone will not be enough to win the election next year, and right now, SCHIP is going to lose Reps the moderates, and the overwhelming “unscientific” polling proves my point.
Mike- how many veto overrides have they lost?
How many will they lose before they go to the next episode and lose again?
They are like the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail- dismembered and bleeding in combat with the White Knight and all he can do is insult his bettor.
Ya, the Dhimmis have no need to compromise because the public so overwhelming thinks they are right and so overwhelmingly loved the 12 year old boy that they kicked Congressional ass and said Override the President NOW!
You’ve had a psychotic break.
Also- it is pure conjecture on your part that commercial makers are even going to waste money on an issue that is far from alive.
Especially when the next 60 days on the international front will bake every Dhimmicratic encumbent alive.
No, I am not new to politics, Mike. But unlike you- I am never on the losing side. Ever. Because I know the difference between political strategy and public relations fluff. Apparently you are eating the bait by the fistful.
Too bad. We’ll just have to see.
#160 29Victor:
Exactly.
Without having the actual data before me, I think it would be a safer bet to say that Perot stole more votes from the Republicans than from the Democrats both times, and thus gave the United States the gift of (the)Clinton(s), not once…but twice.
Thank you so much, Mr. Perot.
sorry on 161 – I am John Q. Public and I vote.
I have to go. Mike, you are unraveling.
The Repubs in Congress have to keep winning battles and slug it out with the Dhimmis.
I predict a Republican president with a Dhimmi congress engaged in all out war on the Asian subcontinent.
The 12 year old kid is gonna get drafted.
Out.
In the last election Democrats selected candiates who were conservative and against the war. That’s one of the reasons they are having a hard time getting anything done.
They ran on the war and Republican corruption & overspending, since the war was going poorly and Republicans had overspent, the Dem’s won. They didn’t run on any liberal social or fiscal issues, on those they ran conservative.
“Going to the middle” and selling out their principles is how conservatives loose elections, not how they win them.
Gingrich won us the Congress with the “Contract With America” which plainly spelled out conservative ideas. No matter how the media spun it, the people still understood and voted for it.
It’s not about polls, it’s about elections. Every time Republicans go left they loose, every time the go right they win. The MSM and the polls always say they are going to loose, but then they win.
One last thing: they surely cannot afford further alienation of their base. And wealthy taxpayers who are registered Dhimmicrats will swing Republican because they dont want to go to the post office to get their colon inspected.
Poll that issue, Dude.
PS: Since when did polls start proving anything?
I’m sure the Dems can be successful. They certainly have been experts at stimulating the gag reflex….
Bear – 166 – unfortunately, the 12 y/o is already drafted – he lives today on the Asian subcontinent. He’s strapping bombs on now even as we speak.
Who cares how many veto overrides they have lost? Do you really think the average person that has a life to lead knows or cares that they can’t pass an override? NO.
All they know is that Reps have enough money to pay for war but not for health insurance for poor kids.
Political junkies may know that they are failing veto votes, but most people don’t know and don’t care.
Mike, I can tell you probably never cracked open a Golden Era DC Comic and thus missed the meaning of a Bizzaro reference. But there was a Seinfeld episode about a “Bizzaro Jerry Seinfeld” that you might have caught.
In the Bizarro Jerry’s world the guys hugged and told each other how much they appreciated one another – the complete opposite of how the Seinfeld gang acts.
A Bizarro Mike at DU or Kos would run into one issue where Americans support Republicans over Democrats, proceeds to extrapolate wrong conclsuions and then panics.
Actually, to be truly classical “Bizarro” in the original DC Superman sense the DU/Kos Bizarro Mike would be happy the Dems are losing and get all relaxed. But that’s trivia-level nitpicking.
Still puzzled as to which “funny word” it is that’s obviously upset you so much.
Michell on Fox News….rightnow….
oops. Michelle
I am not panicking about anything in fact, I am bullish for 2008
However, I am not happy with the way the Reps have handled this issue at all and I don’t think the cheer leading from the blogosphere is helping them at all.
the funny word that describes the part of the brain.
Thanks for the heads up, I caught the segment.
Both Michelle and Michell did fine.
peep
Ptttthhhhhhh….
OT: Remember back in the day when there was only CNN & the networks and they would have two guests in to debate an issue?
Say the issue was abortion, they would inveriably have Patricia Ireland against some 23 year old who answers the phones at Focus on the Family? Or if it were imigration or affirmative action they’d have the head of the ACLU against David Duke. I used to get sooooo frustrated.
And then there was Fox. And all was well.
Victor – of course now Fox is heading toward having their two sides being represented by Geraldo and Colmes.
There is a Bizzaro world – just browsing through Kos I find a mountain of complaints on how the Democrat party is handling just about everything!
The very best that can be said for your idea, Mike, is you see glasses “half empty”.
You can’t get away from the problem you started out with: your “ergos” don’t logically link up. It just machts nichr in reality.
Trust me, within say 6 months (hopefully shorter) you’ll be kicking yourself for thinking this a big deal, much less anything to obsess over for any amount of time.
Of course _I_ never mak ty pos.
Funny, since I am bullish on the Republican’s chances of winning in 2008. I don’t see the glass as half empty, the glass is half empty on this particular issue, and what bothers me is that it doesn’t have to be. We have an echo chamber that believes the Reps are handling matters correctly and cheerleading them on and it hurts them.
They aren’t handling the matter correctly. They need to be out in the media selling their own version of the SCHIP so that the public understands that it isn’t merely the Dems version or no version, but rather that there are two versions, and then the Reps can win on the issue.
if you want to continue to believe that the Reps have won politically on the issue then you can do that, however it won’t actually change the reality of the issue.
Mike, Bear, Peeps, all other commenters, et.al.
Question:
How many times have you been called as part of a high profile poll such as these S-CHIP polls?
If you have been a participant, how many times afterwards did you ever hear the actual results of the poll you got called about?
Just curious. I posted my answers on this a long time ago in this thread.
So, let’s take our own quick poll and survey all of those here willing to respond regarding our having been a participant in such polls and what happened afterwards with thr results.
Should be interesting to find out the answers from the members here.
Once the Dems officially anoint Shrillery as their candidate the whole landscape is going to change … no matter who the Rep candidate is … just keep giving the Dems more rope folks and they will continue to hang themselves even further out to dry … Shrillery has more baggage than a Fed-Ex freight plane can carry … and it will all come back to bite her in her pork-filled posterior …
Anyone can take a ‘poll’ to get the results they want. Anyone can do a ’study’ to show the results they want.
All polls and all studies should be viewed with a skeptical eye. Most are B as in B and S as in S.
Are you serious? I see so when the Dems cry conspiracy, then they are paranoid, but when a poll is not the way you would like it then that is also a conspiracy.
Look, this is beneath. If you want to believe that over one hundred polls which conclude the exact same thing are all purposely trying to do it wrong then fine. It is one thing to site one poll which may or may not be trying to be biased, however on this issue there are hundreds of polls and they all say the same thing. Pollsters call a few hundred people out of a country of hundreds of millions. They are scientific however.
Look if the numbers were 50-45, then I would say the polls are meaningless, however all of the numbers are nearly two to one.
The funny thing is that you think that if you convince me that the polls are wrong then that will change the reality. It won’t.
Unlike the echo chamber here, I know what is going on and on this issue the Republicans are getting crushed politically. They are getting crushed because they are countering poor little kids with sobering statistics, and if you can’t understand that them masses, mostly not politically sophisticated, are always going to side with a poor little kid over stats, then you can live in the world of Oz.
You can go on pretending that my position is faulty because over one hundred polls are all conspiring together to say something that isn’t so. Go ahead and do that, but please don’t be surprised when every single Rep that voted against this has a commercial against them next year calling them a war monger who is too heartless to fund health insurance for poor children. Please don’t be surprised when you find out that those commercials are effective.
Yes, Dasher, how about when one hundred separate polls all say the same thing. I guess we should disregard that data also. Is that how you all see the world? I have no doubt that the next time there is a poll that is in your favor you will rush to site it.
Political realities change and polls at this point can move and move easily, but pretending that the Reps are winning by ignoring every single poll that says they are getting crushed is not actually helping the Reps.
Not that he needs my input, but I think what Mike is saying is that it’s important that voters see the issue in terms of question number 2 in post #128, and not in terms of question 1 – which may be the case – and that perhaps Republicans have not pushed that version into the voters brains ahead of the sick child meme.
Obviously the way questions are phrased in a poll can skew the results dramatically, and is far more important to their validity and/or “what the results mean” than the number of persons questioned (after a certain number.)
Let the rocks fly if you must…
Sure glad Mike is the only one annointed to see this issue correctly.