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Comments

1. #1
   On October 27th, 2007 at 10:38 am, corona said:

   It’s all James Dobson’s fault!

2. #2
   On October 27th, 2007 at 10:41 am, trinitytim said:

   I heard about this yesterday and wrote to the President, the VA, and my Senators asking that this be reversed.

3. #3
   On October 27th, 2007 at 10:56 am, DesertLover said:

   Michelle -

   Does this mean that even if the veteran or a veteran’s family has it in writing as part of the veteran’s funeral wishes they still would not be allowed to recite the flag-folds meanings?

   Or would they then have to respect the wishes of the veteran and the family?

   Just wondering if that is a way around this stupidity.

   With advance apologies to my friends on here from CA, one might know it would be in response to a complaint from the left coast.

   The anti-religious fanatics in this country seem to have way too much time on their hands. All they do is search all day for something else they can try to make an issue about.

   Is there any where we should contact to try to get this decision reversed?

   Thanks as always for keeping us informed Michelle

   BTW … we suddenly do not have a “Review” button to check our comments before submitting them … is that a change to the site or a glitch?

4. #4
   On October 27th, 2007 at 10:59 am, Jim M. said:

   Outrageous. Freedom of religion does not mean freedom FROM religion.

   I suppose that to be consistent, the ban must include any graveside religious eulogy. What’s next, a UN flag?

   Who’s the twinkle toed *!X#%(*!*!*! that filed the complaint? And the lead assed bureaucratic half wit who made this policy?

   There are about 26 million living veterans in this country, including my father, my brother and me. I suppose after the anmesty fiasco, the Bush Administration could care less about alienating another 26 million people.

5. #5
   On October 27th, 2007 at 10:59 am, Jarhead said:

   The NCA should go pound salt. We Vets should just say screw them, what can they do shave our heads and send us to Okinawa. As for the Vets who are going to ignore the Ban I say SEMPER FI this is one vet who has your back. National Cememtery Administration can go @*&% themselves. They should be called The No Common(Sense) Appreciation. Who’s the head of the Administration Cindy Sheehan. This Just Outrages!

6. #6
   On October 27th, 2007 at 11:01 am, Rational Thought said:

   I’m going to guess that the true objection is the tribute to “our country” and “our armed forces,” with the religious objection being used as a cover.

   Can someone give us a link to Veterans Affairs to write our objections?

7. #7
   On October 27th, 2007 at 11:02 am, gayle said:

   What next?

   Can we burn a Mexican flag?????

8. #8
   On October 27th, 2007 at 11:08 am, Jarhead said:

   Sarcasm on click: Are you kinding Gayle that would be considered Hate Speech we could go to jail for burning the Mexican Flag or another flag accept Old Glory herself… Now that would be hate speech. Sarcasm Off click

9. #9
   On October 27th, 2007 at 11:09 am, Jarhead said:

   ment to say not hate speech to burn old glory. The fat fingers strike again.

10. #10
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:10 am, walterc said:

    I noted that the objection was listed as #11, but not #12. I wonder why?

    Or are they just blowing smoke and it was any reference to God that they objected to?

    Regardless, the bureaurat (not a typo) that came up with this decision should be reassigned. He obviously has no business in National Cementery administration.

11. #11
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:11 am, Marshall Russ said:

    We are going to inter our dad at the Veteran’s Memorial Cemetery on Nov. 9. Now I have to think about the liberal Democrat philosophy he voted for all his life are going to try to pay him one more insult.

12. #12
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:18 am, shooter said:

    When I was a 10 or 11 year old scout I visited Gettysburg ( I’m from Colorado), the color guard allowed ME to fold the flag with them because of my incredible love of country, the scouts, and America.
    They had the same love and did something incredible for a little boy.
    I’ll never forget it.
    My 75 year mom still remembers it and brings it up (at all the wrong times).
    We must stand up for our flag, no changes, no burnings, no liberal cancer eating away at the country from within.
    .
    When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, “In God We Trust.”
    It’s has worked for 200+ years for our country and 40+ years for me.
    DONT CHANGE IT!

13. #13
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:18 am, josetheguerilla said:

    The nutroots want to control every thing we do. Don’t you just love lawyers?

    Can we burn a Mexican flag?????gayle

    Believe it or not, it’s a hate crime to do so.

    No Preview button. Que pasa, Michelle?

14. #14
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:23 am, hadsil said:

    If the honored soldier is athiest or otherwise non-Jewish or Christian, not having the recital or to change it to reflect the religious beliefs of the honored soldier would be fine and an obvious compromise.

    I am sick and tired of athiest fundamentalist fascists imposing their worldview upon everyone else.

15. #15
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:23 am, txvet2 said:

    Can we burn a Mexican flag?????

    Sure. As long as you aren’t in Mexico.

    I was planning on eventually being interred at Ft Sam. Now I’m thinking maybe back home in the family plot….

16. #16
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:26 am, shooter said:

    What’s next, a UN flag?
    .
    Can we burn a Mexican flag?????

    .
    I’m SERIOUSLY thinking of a flag burning party, two soon to be burned flags are listed above.
    I can think of a couple more as well.
    Maybe downtown Denver just before the World Series tonight? Tomorrow night?
    . hmmmm….
    p.s. I will NOT be burning the Red White and Blue.

17. #17
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:32 am, pressto said:

    Just like with the Post Office incident, we get just ONE person who complains and the Government solution is to ban it so it does not offend this ONE person.

    It is just sad what has become of our Government now in it’s goal to try to appease every wacko out there.

18. #18
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:36 am, zorro said:

    The legal “ruling” class thinks they run this country. Maybe an Executive Order from the President is in order.

19. #19
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:47 am, shooter said:

    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:36 am, zorro said:
    The legal “ruling” class thinks they run this country. Maybe an Executive Order from the President is in order.

    The ILLEGAL “ruling” class thinks they run this country. Maybe an Executive Order from the President is in order.
    -FIXT.

20. #20
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:54 am, ajmontana said:

    ENOUGH OF THIS BULLS__T!!!!!

21. #21
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:55 am, greenfairie said:

    Disgusting. It’s one thing if someone requests the references to God are taken out, but it’s another to demand no one is allowed the full flag folding ceremony.

    How about calling ‘em atheifascists?

22. #22
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:56 am, BrianNY said:

    #11 said:

    We are going to inter our dad at the Veteran’s Memorial Cemetery on Nov. 9. Now I have to think about the liberal Democrat philosophy he voted for all his life are going to try to pay him one more insult.

    This will obviously be one of the most stirring, proud, emotional and bitter-sweet events in your life. Don’t let ANYONE tell you that you can’t fully conduct it with the utmost dignity and respect that your Father and Our Country deserve.

23. #23
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:02 pm, Kendra said:

    I’m so tired of athiests getting “offended” and deciding the rest of the world needs to conform to them. And that’s typical isn’t it? Instead of making it a choice, they just want it gone for everyone.

24. #24
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:09 pm, DaveC said:

    Everything on the Flag and about the flag stands for something.. symbolic or for honors sake..

    if you didn’t want to hear why the flag is folded.. then let that be specified at the funeral..

    by the way, I had the honor last night of retiring a very old and tattered US flag last night.. first time since I was in the Boy Scouts in the late 80s..

25. #25
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:13 pm, BrianNY said:

    since #9 and #10 read as follows,

    9. A tribute to womanhood.

    10. A tribute to father.

    …maybe #11 can be replaced with the following, and the liberals will stop crying and go away:
    new #11. A tribute to gay/lesbian/trans gender/bi/man on boy/boy on man/iraqi freedom fighters/man on animal/animal on man/phony soldiers/man on anything/anything on man/genocide victims in armenia around 1918/che/etc…

    NOT!

26. #26
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:17 pm, trinitytim said:

    One does not a majoity make.

    Identify the beauricrap who made this decision and send him/her to Gitmo. Now!!!

27. #27
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:37 pm, Jim M. said:

    Identify the beauricrap who made this decision and send him/her to Gitmo. Now!!!

    Better yet, Tim, there is a dire need for cemetary administrators in Afghanistan, near the border with Pakistan.

28. #28
    On October 27th, 2007 at 12:45 pm, DesertLover said:

    Morning all … this is technically O.T. … but please bear with me …

    I would like to interrupt this topic to pass along the following information which is related from the religious aspect …

    The thing I want everyone to be aware of … (Shooter in #12 reminded me of this one) … is that I am asking that all of you join me in refusing to accept or use the “New US Dollar Coin” … if you have one look closely and you will notice that they have removed the words “In God We Trust” …

    I am boycotting these and when someone tries to give me one in change I refuse to accept it and tell them I want real US money … it usually sparks some words with a cashier but I don’t really care … I actually like that those around me in the line get to hear why I won’t accept it as they are all totally unaware of the removal of the phrase … needless to say they are usually shocked to find this fact out …

    Just wanted to make sure all of you were made aware of yet another assault on the religious basis on which this country was founded …

    Sorry to go O.T.

    Thanks …

    And now we return you to our regularly scheduled topic …

29. #29
    On October 27th, 2007 at 1:05 pm, tpierce2 said:

    I just logged into the Department of Veterans Affairs web site. You can email them, after stumbling through a typical government designed web site, and comment or ask a question. I asked if the article is true and the name of a person that made such a bone headed decision. Lets see if they respond. Just Google Veterans Affairs and ask a question or comment.

    These continued attacks on our values and institutions has to stop! We have to go after the offending idiots strongly and quickly. Write, email, phone, pass on the friends, do anything you can to bring this nonsense to the attention of people that care about our country and history.

30. #30
    On October 27th, 2007 at 1:13 pm, ajmontana said:

    Havnt seen one yet dl but I’m down with that.
    and the Nation Cemetery Association can shove it also. I’m so tired of this bullcrap I could start smackin some of these asshats.

31. #31
    On October 27th, 2007 at 1:14 pm, ajmontana said:

    Enjoy the weekend everyone.
    God Bless America

32. #32
    On October 27th, 2007 at 1:18 pm, right_on said:

    So, let’s see…if you ignore the complaint, you will get fired? Uh, I don’t think so. I think it’s time for all Americans to take a stand, once and for all, and demand that people who are in positions that are supposed to make intelligent decisions, actually be intelligent!

    It seems that “the Peter Principle” has become status quo. We should all come together, and start demanding accountability of administrators who value the opinions/sensitivities of the few, over commonsense, “no brainer” decisions. Fire them over their insensitivity to us, true American patriots!!!

33. #33
    On October 27th, 2007 at 1:26 pm, Pasadena Phil said:

    Why is it that when our government or these self-anointed “freedom watchdogs” demand something, it always requires that someone not exercise their freedoms. How is that “culture”? We keep surrendering our freedoms to the perpetually offended. This is not an innocuous event. Cultures require rituals that institutionalize our values. Instead, we are retreating into an amorphous “culture” of androgynous amoeba festering in some darkening corner of history. We are dying.

34. #34
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:00 pm, Reggie Dunlop said:

    My Great Uncle, a Vietnam vet and Annapolis grad is scheduled to be buried at Arlington in November, and I’m glad he didn’t live to know his grave would be figuratively spat upon. The left continues to raise my ire.

35. #35
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:10 pm, granite said:

    “11. In the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    12. In the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.”

    “The complaint revolved around the narration in the 11th fold, which celebrates Jewish war veterans and ‘glorifies the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.’”

    #10 walterc:

    “I noted that the objection was listed as #11, but not #12. I wonder why?”

    Perhaps it will end up that you will have heard it here first, folks;

    but, especially since the objection was to the part for fold 11, my first guess (and, IU’ll admit, it is just a guess) would be that a Muslim individual issued the complaint.

    Whaddya think, bloggers?

36. #36
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:10 pm, granite said:

    Whoops…I’ll admit…

37. #37
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:16 pm, ajmontana said:

    Whomever it is Granite their just going on down the line, one by one, step by step…..slowly they turn. Nothing but a bunch of Rebel Rouser Dirtbags.

38. #38
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:20 pm, granite said:

    #36 ajmontana:

    Yep

    Step by step; inch by inch….

    As I have previously described the leftists’ approach - salami tactics.

    Except, that the slices that the leftists are removing lately seem to be getting thicker and thicker, and more and more noticeable.

39. #39
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:27 pm, waveman said:

    #28, which makes this post also O.T.,

    This is an urban legend. I have friends that email this “outrage” periodically. The words “In God We Trust” and “E Pluribus Unum”, along with the mint year 2007 and the mint mark appear on the edge of the coin.

    It is true that an unknown number of coins from the Philly mint were released without the edge stamping. This either happened because the machine malfunctioned, or bags bypassed the machine alltogether, then were overlooked in final inspection. Initially the unmarked coins were selling for $50 to collectors as mistakes like these are rare.

    Let’s limit ourselves to going after real instances of trying to leave God out of our lives instead of perpetuating an urban legend. It make us look foolish.

40. #40
    On October 27th, 2007 at 2:28 pm, swj719AWG said:

    It’ll be said at my funeral.

    If not, those goons I pay to have hired for other purposes will express my annoyance from beyond the grave…

41. #41
    On October 27th, 2007 at 3:08 pm, purplepeep said:

    right_on said:
    demand that people who are in positions that are supposed to make intelligent decisions, actually be intelligent!

    Or just altogether avoid being pushed by some crank into making stupid and unneeded decisions.

42. #42
    On October 27th, 2007 at 3:46 pm, graysonret said:

    Instead of banning this, it should have been made optional, so the families can opt in to have the recital done. Why must 1000s suffer because of one person’s objection?

43. #43
    On October 27th, 2007 at 3:58 pm, trailortrash said:

    this is really getting insane!
    hope this gets overturned like the pictures on the wall of servicemen in that postoffice (last week?).

44. #44
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:06 pm, right_on said:

    purplepeep

    Or just altogether avoid being pushed by some crank into making stupid and unneeded decisions.

    My point, exactly! An intelligent person should have the where-with-all to just say, “Okay, your objection is duly noted, now stop bothering me with this nonsense!”

45. #45
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:14 pm, graysonret said:

    Why don’t they ban the Westboro Baptist Church instead? Now that is something I could cheer.

46. #46
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:17 pm, BeaSting said:

    OK. Perhaps people are over-reacting. The story appeared in my local paper (Virginia Beach), and according to it, the administrator of the VA cemetery in Hampton is quoted saying that he never heard of the recitation, and the superintendent of the state-run Veteran’s Cemetary in Suffolk says it is not on their program, nor has anyone asked for it, although he says he’s heard the recitation at some private services.

    I think that it is appropriate that federal employees not be required to read it, but that a friend or family member should be encouraged to read it if it is a desired part of the funeral.
    I am a retired Navy veteran and will not have the recitation read at my funeral. I will, however, have the Wiccan pentacle engraved on my stone. By the way, the right to have my religious emblem on my stone was recently recognized by the VA after a nearly 10 year fight.

47. #47
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:23 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    Unbelievable.

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

48. #48
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:25 pm, purplepeep said:

    right_on said:
    An intelligent person should have the where-with-all to just say, “Okay, your objection is duly noted, now stop bothering me with this nonsense!”

    Yup. Just kindly take the complaint with a “we’ll look into it” and then file it away until the 12th Of Never. But that’s common sense - something administrative-level people too often are lacking these days.

49. #49
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:31 pm, purplepeep said:

    BeaSting said:
    I will, however, have the Wiccan pentacle engraved on my stone.

    You got my eye’s a rollin’ skyward there, BeaSting, but you’re entilted to such an engraving.

    But I disagree that American tradition should be tossed out just because some anti-Judeo-Christian crank is “offended”.

50. #50
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:36 pm, jeanie said:

    My husband, sons and brother-in-law, all veterans, are terribly offended by this. They say, and rightly so, that it will be their funeral, they are Christians and it should be their right. None of these plans to be buried in a National Cemetery,(or to die any time soon LOL)but all insist the flag ceremony as it stands now, to be included.

51. #51
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:39 pm, shooter said:

    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:23 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    “In God WE Trust” on the edge….
    .
    Ain’t that somethin’? Punny?

52. #52
    On October 27th, 2007 at 4:47 pm, DesertLover said:

    30 pcs of silver

    Thanks for correcting my previous … I was unaware of the edge writing … but as we all know … the first thing that wears is the edge … look at quarters and dimes … the scalloped edge is smooth in no time at all …

    Despite your additional information I still think it belongs on the face where it is going to be seen by everyone … not on the edge where it will never be noticed …

    Thanks again …

53. #53
    On October 27th, 2007 at 5:27 pm, CC said:

    Why is it that because ONE FOOL complains about something, the entire tradition, past and present is changed? And WHY do we allow it? We should be screaming, complaining, demanding, insisting, making our voices heard in a very loud way, that we DO NOT WANT changes such as this completely unnecessary one to take place.

    The “uniformity” of everything is turning us into Stepford people. We must not let it happen.

54. #54
    On October 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pm, right_on said:

    FYI

    Scoring the edges of coins came about in “days of yore” when people would scrape off the edges of a stamped gold or silver coin and melt it down. Scoring was used to discourage the practice.

    Maybe this is how the term “skimming off the top” came into being?

55. #55
    On October 27th, 2007 at 5:32 pm, leepro said:

    Wearz th Revyew buttin?

56. #56
    On October 27th, 2007 at 5:47 pm, purplepeep said:

    right_on said:

    FYI

    Scoring the edges of coins came about in “days of yore” when people would scrape off the edges of a stamped gold or silver coin and melt it down. Scoring was used to discourage the practice.

    Of course, with modern clad US coinage that’d be a waste of time!

    Maybe this is how the term “skimming off the top” came into being?

    I’m think that would more likely be traced back to bioling misc liquids, like getting the “best” part of a broth.

57. #57
    On October 27th, 2007 at 6:34 pm, purplepeep said:

    leepro said:

    Wearz th Revyew buttin?

    Indeed! I appear gramatically-challenged enough even with the previews buttons’ help!

58. #58
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:33 pm, Kevin K. said:

    We buried my veteran father last month. We did not have that explanation of each fold, nor was it offered. Frankly, I think it was made up fairly recently when someone noted that the flag was the right size for 13 folds.

    In any case, it should be up to the family, not some government bureaucrat.

59. #59
    On October 27th, 2007 at 11:52 pm, Christian Soldier said:

    I read it in the paper Friday and instantly smelled the likes of the ACLU or CAIR.

60. #60
    On October 28th, 2007 at 1:26 am, Kendra said:

    I am boycotting these and when someone tries to give me one in change I refuse to accept it and tell them I want real US money … it usually sparks some words with a cashier but I don’t really care … I actually like that those around me in the line get to hear why I won’t accept it as they are all totally unaware of the removal of the phrase … needless to say they are usually shocked to find this fact out …

    Yeah, careful where you try that. As a small business owner, if I’m required to accept it in payment, you’re required to accept it in change. “Give to God what is God’s and to Caesar what is Caesars”.

61. #61
    On October 28th, 2007 at 2:58 am, tpierce2 said:

    Check this out. The ceremony should be dictated by the wishes of the departed and the family. Not a damn bureaucrat!

    The flag folding ceremony described by the Uniformed Services is a dramatic and uplifting way to honor the flag on special days, like Memorial Day or Veterans Day, and is sometimes used at retirement ceremonies.

    Here is a typical sequence of the reading:

    (Begin reading as Honor Guard or Flag Detail is coming forward).

    The flag folding ceremony represents the same religious principles on which our country was originally founded. The portion of the flag denoting honor is the canton of blue containing the stars representing the states our veterans served in uniform. The canton field of blue dresses from left to right and is inverted when draped as a pall on a casket of a veteran who has served our country in uniform.

    In the Armed Forces of the United States, at the ceremony of retreat the flag is lowered, folded in a triangle fold and kept under watch throughout the night as a tribute to our nation’s honored dead. The next morning it is brought out and, at the ceremony of reveille, run aloft as a symbol of our belief in the resurrection of the body.

    (Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to unravel and fold the flag into a quarter fold–resume reading when Honor Guard is standing ready.)

    The first fold of our flag is a symbol of life.

    The second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life.

    The third fold is made in honor and remembrance of the veteran departing our ranks who gave a portion of life for the defense of our country to attain a peace throughout the world.

    The fourth fold represents our weaker nature, for as American citizens trusting in God, it is to Him we turn in times of peace as well as in times of war for His divine guidance.

    The fifth fold is a tribute to our country, for in the words of Stephen Decatur, “Our country, in dealing with other countries, may she always be right; but it is still our country, right or wrong.”

    The sixth fold is for where our hearts lie. It is with our heart that we pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

    The seventh fold is a tribute to our Armed Forces, for it is through the Armed Forces that we protect our country and our flag against all her enemies, whether they be found within or without the boundaries of our republic.

    The eighth fold is a tribute to the one who entered in to the valley of the shadow of death, that we might see the light of day, and to honor mother, for whom it flies on mother’s day.

    The ninth fold is a tribute to womanhood; for it has been through their faith, love, loyalty and devotion that the character of the men and women who have made this country great have been molded.

    The tenth fold is a tribute to father, for he, too, has given his sons and daughters for the defense of our country since they were first born.

    The eleventh fold, in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

    The twelfth fold, in the eyes of a Christian citizen, represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son, and Holy Ghost.

    When the flag is completely folded, the stars are uppermost, reminding us of our national motto, “In God we Trust.”

    (Wait for the Honor Guard or Flag Detail to inspect the flag–after the inspection, resume reading.)

    After the flag is completely folded and tucked in, it takes on the appearance of a cocked hat, ever reminding us of the soldiers who served under General George Washington and the sailors and marines who served under Captain John Paul Jones who were followed by their comrades and shipmates in the Armed Forces of the United States, preserving for us the rights, privileges, and freedoms we enjoy today.

    | The Flag Folding Ceremony above is from the US Air Force Academy |

62. #62
    On October 28th, 2007 at 4:41 am, Jim M. said:

    Spare Change

    Thanks for your input.

    While my recollection of the ceremony conducted at Arlington is consistent with yours, the vast majority of the ceremonies throughout the US are performed by volunteer members of the American Legion. These men are also veterans who love the country they served in WWII, Korea, Vietnam and other conflicts, and continue to have a seep sense of duty.

    A strong belief that their brothers in arms deserve the most honorable recognition for their service to this Country.

    They are well organized and highly dedicated. As a matter of fact, the nominal fee that the government used to pay these men for conducting the service (it paid for lunch after the ceremony), has now been ended. No money left. But the services continue. And these volunteers buy their own dress blues and maintain their weapons in top shape to sound the 21 gun salute.

    The Legion has added its own touches, which are always at the family’s discretion. Those touches are intended to add to the solemnity of the ceremony. One of those is the 13 folds.

    No, it is not specifically spelled out in the US code, but frankly neither is having veterans do the job the military cannot do. With over 1000 WWII veterans dying every week, it is logistically impossible for the military to handle those tasks.

    I know that you fully understand and appreciate what I am saying, but many people do not.

    There are those who would support eliminating the honor guards across the country and just mail a flag to the family of the recently departed, pre-folded of course.

    But I happen to believe that those who serve their country deserve this country’s thanks and appreciation. And for the family, there is no greater thanks that their country can give than honoring these fine men and women in the manner they deserve.

    Everyone says they support the troops, but their actions belie their words. The Democrats have been presenting the same two bills over the last few months, while an approiations bill to bolster the benefits to service members has been put on the back burner. Veterans from Korea and Vietnam are being told that unless they applied for benefits prior to I believe it was 2000, they are no longer eligible for VA benefits. There apparently was a bill passed by the troop loving Congress and signed by the troop loving President that cut off those benefits. The justification? We don’t have the funds for our veterans.

    So, while we silently strip away those things we promised to our veterans but now reneged on, we now face the prospect of having that last goodbye and fairwell conducted in the manner it deserves.

    EAnd I for one will do whatever is on my power to preserve the RIGHT of a brother in arms to be interred with the dignity and respect they not only serve, the dignity and respect which they have EARNED.

63. #63
    On October 28th, 2007 at 2:35 pm, purplepeep said:

    Spare Change:
    This recent and somewhat maudlin addendum

    Hi SpareC -
    You have to remember that the words “under God” in the Pledge Of
    Allegiance started a relatively short time ago (1950s).

    If recentness is the criteria here, every tradition we now practice could have been dumped the same day it starts as being too “recent”. ( “We’ve only been doing it since this morning.”)

    You’d be stuck setting a totally arbitrary and unworkable “cut-off date”. I don’t think that should be the underlying basis for an argument in this case.

    As for “maudlin”, SpareC, that’s completely subjective.

    Kevin K. said:
    Frankly, I think it was made up fairly recently when someone noted that the flag was the right size for 13 folds.

    Kevin - I doubt that vets, honor guards especially, just sudden;ly (this week or whatever) noticed anything about new flag-folding!

    Jim M. said:
    There are those who would support eliminating the honor guards across the country and just mail a flag to the
    family of the recently departed, pre-folded of course.

    But I happen to believe that those who serve their country deserve this country’s thanks and appreciation.

    Yup, Jim - and the flag presentation might be the only time family and friends ever hear that the nation is honored by their loved one’s service.

64. #64
    On October 28th, 2007 at 4:31 pm, 30 pcs of silver said:

    #51 and #52,

    I agree, there was nothing wrong with “In God We Trust” being on the face of the coins. Frankly, I am rather incensed about the attacks on God, on what seems like a daily basis.

65. #65
    On October 28th, 2007 at 8:09 pm, Kevin K. said:

    purplepeep, I didn’t mean that the explanation was made up this year, but I have only heard of it and seen it–at memorial services–in the past seven years, and I do not recall reading about it before then. The flag has been folded into the triangle for much longer than that. What I should have said is that I believe the idea came after the way the flag was folded, rather than the reason for 13 folds is that we had these points to symbolize. In any case, it should be up to the family to choose whether to have it or not, not some government official.

    Sorry, All, for not being clear in my original posting–it was a very long day.

66. #66
    On October 28th, 2007 at 8:25 pm, Heartland Perspective said:

    This almost made me weep. I held up pretty well until they folded the flag and spoke to me at my husband’s funeral. He would have been so proud.

    And now, we’ve taken that dignity away.

67. #67
    On October 28th, 2007 at 8:45 pm, pctech45 said:

    I am so sick and tired of this crap. Just because a weakkneed liberal gets his dander up we have to now eliminate the words mentioned while folding a flag?

    Ok, How about this? Let’s outlaw all noise coming from a toilet stall, whether in public or private! That means no noises when making a bowel movement! Take that you damned liberal, opps, socialist!

68. #68
    On October 28th, 2007 at 9:36 pm, purplepeep said:

    Kevin K. said:

    Ah, I see, Kevin. Thanks. I thought maybe you were thinking the folks who do this stuff everyday discovered something new re:flagfolding! (e.g how many times a regulation flag folds.)

69. #69
    On October 28th, 2007 at 9:45 pm, purplepeep said:

    pctech45 said:
    I am so sick and tired of this crap. Just because a weakkneed liberal gets his dander up we have to now eliminate the words mentioned while folding a flag?

    Yup - unless a vet isn’t interested in having such recitation at his/her own funeral, this is certainly one time where s/he should not be forced to bow to political correctness!

    If anybody complains they should just be told to get outta earsshot or go pound sand.

70. #70
    On October 29th, 2007 at 1:48 pm, pxystick said:

    Maybe I missed this, but isn’t there a tradition with rifle bullet casings being folded into the flag?