Tom Lantos disses Europe over Guantanamo Bay Derangement Syndrome
I hesitate to praise far Left Democrat Rep. Tom Lantos given that he’ll probably be backtracking from his comments post-haste. Still, if this report of his remarks is accurate, it’s definitely worth taking a moment to appreciate a moonbat’s brief moment of clarity, however fleeting. Read:
Dutch lawmakers who visited the Guantanamo Bay military prison this week said they were offended by a testy exchange in Washington with a senior congressional Democrat.
The lawmakers said that Rep. Tom Lantos, D-Calif., chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, told them that “Europe was not as outraged by Auschwitz as by Guantanamo Bay.”
Lantos, a Holocaust survivor, was responding to arguments that the United States should shut down the prison, located on a U.S. naval base in Cuba, the lawmakers said. Mariko Peter, a member of the Dutch Green Party, who began the exchange with Lantos, said she took notes of the remarks.
A Lantos aide said he realizes that the Guantanamo facility does harm to the reputation of the United States and has praised judges who ruled in favor of extending legal rights to prisoners. He has not, however, suggested that the prison be closed.
Before the Guantanamo exchange, the lawmakers had discussed a debate in the Netherlands about whether the country should maintain its 1,600 troops serving in NATO’s Afghanistan operations.
“You have to help us, because if it was not for us you would now be a province of Nazi Germany,” Lantos said, according to the Dutch lawmakers.
“The comments killed the debate,” said Harry van Bommel, a member of the Socialist Party. “It was insulting and counterproductive.”
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- Bloodthirsty Liberal » What’s to Debate?
- Tom Lantos Crosses the Line « The Van Der Galiën Gazette
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- Don Surber » Blog Archive » Holocaust survivor trumps Dutch
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- The Truth of Jena | Adam's Blog
- If You Didn’t Like Auschwitz, You Must Love Gitmo…Or Something Like That « Matt Zeitlin: Impetuous Young Whippersnapper
- Mirroring Miranda » Blog Archive » Of Pygmies and Kettles
- Michelle Malkin » Democrat Rep. Tom Lantos dies
- EDS – Everything Derangement Syndrome. Derangement-Gate? | Christopher Estep's America
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Truth hurts.
My own experience overseas leads me to suspect that Europeans’ debt to America is the main driver in their current Anti-Americanism. You know, it’s so insulting to have others save you, and open gratitude is so gauche.
Wow! I am shocked. How dare he tell the truth?
Agreed, Lantos will be recanting or restating what he said by Monday morning. However, should we decide to close our infamous facility in Gitmo I think the Netherlands should agree to take any and all whose country of origin refuses to take back. Chances are the prisoners already have relatives living there and would add another layer of terror to Holland’s already enormous problems.
I’m willing to give credit where credit is due.
Thanks Congressman Lantos.
“It was insulting and counterproductive.”
Yes, and so … what? It seems to generally accepted that the U.S. is supposed to accept heaps and heaps of insults and hatred from everyone else, but we are not allowed to speak the truth if somebody might perceive it to be “insulting”. I’m fairly fed up with only being on the receiving end. It’s time some other countries in the world start facing up to “insulting” truths about themselves.
Let’s see, Scre* the Dutch. Let’s send them all our drug addicts which should fit well with their ‘open society’ for drug users. Then, to spice up the variety even more, ship them our prostitutes so they can sell their wares on the streets and corners of Amsterdam. Hell, lets ship our protesters to Canada. Ship our anti war lets surrender types to France. Hmmm who should we ship to Germany, Austria, Italy , etc?
Oh yeah, lest I forget, the illegal aliens back to their countries, post haste. Hell with the Dutch. Been there. NOt so hot.
How long before the apology? Not long I’m sure.
Wow, kudos to him!
Small victory since liberals oppose every effort to keep the terrorists from using our laws against us. Like the loon on Bill O. last night thinks Constitutional rights be extended to enemy combatants!!!
Typical leftist Dem. The misguided victim party of fake empathy becomes rational only when a member can personally relate to an injustice. Lantos is right, but due to his own tragic experience, not ideology.
The Dutch! Didn’t they introduce slavery to the New World, along with their African partners? No wonder they smoke so much dope.
Thanks to MM for this post. I’m glad to see that she (unlike many partisan bloggers from both sides) was able to
I would like to push a little harder in this direction. There is a tendency, even from MM, to accuse those who criticize that or that Bush war policy as hating America. Lantos himself could have been so accused for
This is actually the second thing Lantos has done or said correctly this week. The first was pushing that Code Pink woman away from Condi Rice when the Pinko was trying to put her “bloody hands” in the face of Ms. Rice. Lantos pushed the Code Pink woman away a split second before the secret service guys jumped all over her.
…because we couldn’t think of anything to say in reply. Uh…that’s called checkmate, Harry. Tom wins that debate, you douche.
A line comes to mind.
You want the Truth? You can’t handle the Truth.
Credit where it’s due for Lantos (D).
By all means.
“He was so young, he did not realize how much less is the sense of obligation in those who receive favors than in those who grant them.”–Somerset Maugham
What angers me most is these countries that want Guantanamo shut also refuse to accept the return of prisoners to their home countries. Which begs the question do they think we are going to give the jihadist refuge in the U.S.A.?
#12 said,
I would like to push a little harder in this direction. There is a tendency, even from MM, to accuse those who criticize that or that Bush war policy as hating America.
lgm, with respect, why don’t you push even harder and start a blog that just praises everyone on all sides of the aisle who praises everyone on the other side? You can call it “Everything in Moderation.” You can feature “The GREATEST Person in the World” every day, and you can sign off by acknowledging something like, “and there you have it, on this, the umpteenthday since George Bush said, ‘Ted Kennedy is a man I can work with,’ or the such and such day Nancy Pelosi hasn’t said, ‘(George Bush) is an incompetent leader … who has no judgment, no experience and no knowledge of the subjects that he has to decide upon.’”
The saying, “Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and again” comes to mind.
Since our NATO allies are just randomly changing their commitments to the Middle East conflicts and backing out of commitments at will, I want to see our gov’t finally grow a pair and tell Europe that on January 2, 2008 we are pulling all American troops and equipment out of Bosnia as we need those troops and assets to shore up Afghanistan and Iraq positions due to the continued disengagement of NATO troops in Middle East and their failure to maintain their commitments. See how they like them apples.
I am getting on this one late so most of what I would have said is already posted … but the statement Lantos made regarding WWII and Germany is actually doubly true since we had to save all of Europe from the same fate in WWI before that … they just don’t seem to be able to remember past their spiteful socialist noses in Europe …
On a personal note I experienced the opposite level of appreciation years ago.
When I took one of my R&R trips during Viet Nam I went to Sydney, Australia. All of the US servicemen learned quickly that one way to make our money go further while there was to always try to flag down an older taxi driver to get around. They treated you with a lot of respectm and many of them, unlike their younger counterparts, would refuse to let US servicemen pay them for the ride. I once asked one of them why he wouldn’t let me pay him and the answer I got was
“We owe you Yanks … if it wasn’t for you in WWII we’d be speaking Japanese today” … and he was serious …
I have always felt since that this is a part of why the Aussies are such a strong ally of the US …
Put em all on a 747 and dump em in Europe. Everyone off the bus… You are in the promised land!
How do you think the EU’ers would react?
Babs … you’d need to push them all out the door with parachutes because all these idiot EU types would refuse to let the plane land …
All the European countries have their own Jihad problems so the should STFU.
There may be a better way to end the Gitmo arguments once and for all. Perhaps the bleeding hearts would be more comfortable if the Rules of Engagement were changed?
How about this? ALL combatants on a battlefield (battlefield defined as ‘anywhere on the earth’s surface, or airspace above said surface) will be immediately dispatched with extreme prejudice. Digital photographs shall be taken to validate the subject as a “combatant.” Anyone who, without evidence to the contrary, alledges falsified evidence or suggests the subject was an “innocent bystander,” shall immediately be considered an “enemy combatant,” and shall be dispatched according to the new Rules of Engagement.
Question: Would it be a “war crime” to kill all combatants on a battlefield, once they have been forewarned there is a “no prisoners” policy?
Question: Would declaring ALL persons who give aid and comfort to combatants who flee the battlefield, enemy combatants also (read civilian friends/family/supporters), curtail the terrorist tendency “run home to mommy syndrome,” thus sparing lives of true civilians?
Or…let’s just keep doing business as usual: point fingers, throw accusation around, and keep going over the same old same old, ad infinitum?
The left likes to throw around the Geneva conventions but doesn’t the convention allow for the execution of non-uniformed combatants?
The operative phrase here: “Lantos, a Holocaust survivor….”
The Dutch have their own problems so if they won’t take the contents of the prison home with them the should butt out.
http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/2584
sorry they should butt out
Everyone has beat me to it…
It was also 100% accurate.
It is a shame that widespread condom use in post war Europe prevented the improvement of the gene pool…
Exactly. Any non-jewish democrap would have whole-heartedly agreed with the dutch.
Even if this burst of sanity and moral clarity is a short-lived phenomena, Lantos deserves kudos for knocking one the park.
“it was not for us you would now be a province of Nazi Germany”
Can’t improve on that line.
The degrading and disgusting way the prisoners at Guantanamo are treated should result in full pardons for all and the base should be shut down imme….what?…those pictures are from the Folsom Street Fair?……Nevermind.
buckshot asks: “doesn’t the convention allow for the execution of non-uniformed combatants?”
The Convention provides how irregular forces can find safe harbor as formal POWs. Something as simple as wearing a colored armband or a hat would qualify captured guerrillas as being formal POWs with the same exact protections as uniformed members of a nation’s armed forces would enjoy.
The Convention mandates how POWs are to be treated in captivity. One item in particular that is a PROTECTION for POWs is the flat prohibition of criminal proceedings against them, unless they are on trial for acts committed WHILE POWs or for “crimes against humanity.”
So, when Democrats agitate for “trials” for the murdering bastards in Gitmo, they are demanding that the USA violate the Convention.
The Convention outlaws “take no prisoners” for uniformed and irregular forces (when properly identified) prisoners of war. Which rules out battlefield executions. No such provision exists for fighters that do not avail themselves of the protection of the Convention by their refusal to be bound by it. In this case, these would be captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters.
So, for forces like Al Qaeda who eschew the Convention, they could, in theory, be given battlefield tribunals followed by immediate execution if found guilty of murder. Remember, if irregular forces DO NOT FOLLOW the Convention, they do not retain protection as POWs, including the prohibition of trial and punishment for acts committed on the battlefield (crimes against humanity, excepted).
All this is fine and good. However….
The American soldier is also bound to our own “rules for warfare.” Our rules require that we accept the surrender of combatants regardless of their status under the Convention. Our rules require that our troops take enemy combatants into custody, even if they don’t surrender but are overwhelmed by pure force. Failure to obey our rules for warfare can lead to court martial under the UCMJ, and our rules prohibit summary execution of combatants once they surrender to us or are in our custody, irrespective of their status under the Convention.
The current rules for treating POWs were formalized in the Hague Convention of 1907 (which the USA was NOT a signatory to, BTW, but which we followed anyway), and have been in every subsequent Convention up to and including the current Geneva Convention.
The Hague Convention of 1907 was an attempt to “civilize” war by applying a framework of rules. The goal was to limit the unnecessary loss of life, both military and civilian, by establishing “rules of war” that all nations would follow. In retrospect, it was naive and hopelessly “romantic” given what followed later in the 20th Century. Nobody had an inkling that “Total War” was just over the horizon. And given that today’s terrorists ignore it, the Convention seems outdated and non-functional, at least with respect to their behavior.
One more thing.
Under the Convention, a belligerent (the formal term for a nation fighting a war) is entitled to retain their POWs until such time as they are either paroled, exchanged, or the war is over. Which means that the prisoners in Gitmo MAY BE LEGALLY HELD FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES; a life sentence for all practical purposes.
Once I knew a guy that was on a demonstration team for a Role Playing Game.
This group had put together “rules of engagement” for when outside of the US (frequently they would go to european countries and such). One of the rules was: “Randomly, stand up and yell ‘If it wasn’t for us, you’d all be speaking german right now’! (Note: does not work in Germany)”
When I am President, those rules would change.
I would say “We will have strict adhereance to the Geneva Conventions”, and the liberals will love me.
Because they are stupid.
Bravo for Lantos. Shame on the Dutch. Sometimes the truth hurts, eh Dutchies?
is it just me, or is the “preview” button gone?
GONE
PWMF
Heh
Wish I’d come up with that!
I don’t think Lantos will back down; he has nothing to apologize for, he is right. GITMO isn’t even close to Nazi Germany’s concentration camps; there you didn’t know whether you would be killed any minute of the day. At GITMO; we cater to their religion and diet, so what do the Dutch expect?
This episode with Lantos reminds me of the Film “The Americanization of Emily.” It is considered an anti-war film but but the dialogue by American Lt. Cmdr. Charles Madison to his British lover were the most compelling lines in the movie for me:
My Mother left me many pearls of wisdom to consider – - ‘gratitude is galling’ seems most applicable here.
swj719AWG
Yep, I don’t have it either. No more second chances.
True, TNom – but even if he didn’t I wouldn’t be overly dissapointed. I don’t complain if a horse manages to fly for only 10 seconds.
“Insulting & counter productive”???
Define productive…
I am only now considering, maybe, buying French wine again.
I have lost my taste for Dutch cheese though. All the smoke from those burning cars has altered the taste, it tastes a bit like appeasement now…
georgej said: in #34
(emphasis mine)
Therein lies the reason we should not consider them Prisoners of War … I defy anyone to tell me which country the Al-Qaeda fighters are representing … even if considered an “irregular” you still have to be representing a country to avail the protections of the Geneva Conventions … we simply provide it because we are a society of humane individuals … but some do not seem willing to accept the fact that our enemies are not in the least humane … they are animals …
Amen!
Fair enough. Ethical.
A professor of mine said that Guantanamo Bay prison is a “concentration camp.”
I was tempted to ask, “Sir, what does this have to do with the course?” It’s a course in English literature.
One wonders what my prof thinks about the real concentration camps in North Korea? But, again, emotionalism is the order of the day for the leftist.
Not to worry. I was in Amsterdam in 2004. It is only short time before:
1)The Socialists are voted out, because the people are sick of the murders, assualts, rapes, and other crimes being perpetrated by the high volume of Islamic immigrants
2) They are all wearing burkas, and speaking Arabic
You would think the land of the Anne Frank house would have the guts to stand up to the next great threat to life and liberty in this world. They probably think they are, because the Socialists think freedom and oportunity are the enemies.
“Equal misery, equal pain” The Democrat election cry for 2008
Any body care to explain to me how we could have lawyered up and held a trial for every Japanese or German POW during WWII?
Where were the CCR, ACLU, and Guantanamo Bay Bar Association when we really needed them? [sarcasm button off 'click']
In Germany the kids are taught (this from feedback from American kids in school) that the Marshall plan was to enable US soldiers a place to party and vacation.
Who is this Marshall fella? I want a word orr to with him.
It was dern hard scrapin together enough bucks for suds off base in Bavaria back’n ‘74 with dat der Deutchmark tradin fur 2.43 to the dollar.
“The comments killed the debate,” said Harry van Bommel, a member of the Socialist Party. “It was insulting and counterproductive.”
Now, THERE’S an inconvenient truth…
When it comes to Islamic nut cases, some American Jews, even though ‘Multiculturalist’ can focus on reality. Death threats do that.
I agree with most of the comments here and those who hate Gitmo such as that Loon on BO Friday night, how would they feel if we released all those captives in their hometowns? I bet Cindy Seehan wouldn’t appreciate if they released the Gitmo guys in her neighborhood.
When Euroweenies like Van Bommel say things like this, do you think THEIR media elite run around warning that the Dutch are “losing their credibility on the world stage?”
“In Germany the kids are taught (this from feedback from American kids in school) that the Marshall plan was to enable US soldiers a place to party and vacation.”
I’m increasingly inclined to believe that Churchill was right when he said he wanted to plow Germany under and make it a purely agrarian, non-developed region after WWII.
There’s a passage in “A Writer at War,” by Vassily Grossman, where he describes the “traditional German chauvisnism, arrogance, egoism, self-assurance, pedantic care for one’s own little nest, and the iron-cold indifference to the destiny of all that is living on the Earth.”
It’s fascinating to see how those same sanctimonious qualities have been adapted to today’s political correctness and the current power structure in the EU. And the Dutch, who had a huge per capita percentage of troops in the SS, are even more nasty and arrogant than the Germans.
Buy American, folks. Spend your money supporting U. S. manufacturing and not the ill-gotten spawn of the Marshall Plan with which we’re bombarded now. I’m certain General Patton didn’t expect grown Americans to beat feet for every derivative piece of foreign sxxt currently dumped on our shores today. Have some pride in yourself and in the capabilities of your fellow Americans.