Paging Michael Moore: Brits flee socialized healthcare
Oh, what lovely conditions we have to look forward to should Hillary Clinton and Michael Moore get their way:
Record numbers of Britons are travelling abroad for medical treatment to escape the NHS - with 70,000 patients expected to fly out this year.
And by the end of the decade 200,000 “health tourists” will fly as far as Malaysa and South Africa for major surgery to avoid long waiting lists and the rising threat of superbugs, according to a new report.
The first survey of Britons opting for treatment overseas shows that fears of hospital infections and frustration of often waiting months for operations are fuelling the increasing trend.
Patients needing major heart surgery, hip operations and cataracts are using the internet to book operations to be carried out thousands of miles away.
India is the most popular destination for surgery, followed by Hungary, Turkey, Germany, Malaysia, Poland and Spain. But dozens more countries are attracting health tourists.
Research by the Treatment Abroad website shows that Britons have travelled to 112 foreign hospitals, based in 48 countries, to find safe, affordable treatment.
Almost all of those who had received treatment abroad said they would do the same again, with patients pointing out that some hospitals in India had screening policies for the superbug MRSA that have yet to be introduced in this country.
Andrew Lansley, the shadow health secretary, said the figures were a “terrible indictment” of government policies that were undermining the efforts of NHS staff to provide quality services.
Those who know the system best give Moore a reality check:
Sicko, like all Moore’s films, is about an important and emotive subject – healthcare. He contrasts the harsh and exclusive system in the US with the European ideal of universal socialised medicine, equal and free for all, and tries to demonstrate that one is wrong and the other is right. So far, so good; there are cases to be made.
Unfortunately Sicko is a dishonest film. That is not only my opinion. It is the opinion of Professor Lord Robert Winston, the consultant and advocate of the NHS. When asked on BBC Radio 4 whether he recognised the NHS as portrayed in this film, Winston replied: “No, I didn’t. Most of it was filmed at my hospital [the Hammersmith in west London], which is a very good hospital but doesn’t represent what the NHS is like.”
I didn’t recognise it either, from years of visiting NHS hospitals. Moore painted a rose-tinted vision of spotless wards, impeccable treatment, happy patients who laugh away any suggestion of waiting in casualty, and a glamorous young GP who combines his devotion to his patients with a salary of £100,000, a house worth £1m and two cars. All this, and for free.
This, along with an even rosier portrait of the French welfare system, is what Moore says the state can and should provide. You would never guess from Sicko that the NHS is in deep trouble, mired in scandal and incompetence, despite the injection of billions of pounds of taxpayers’ money.
While there are good doctors and nurses and treatments in the NHS, there is so much that is inadequate or bad that it is dishonest to represent it as the envy of the world and a perfect blueprint for national healthcare. It isn’t.
Not that the filthy reality is going to get in the way of Michael Moore’s self-delusions. Look.
See what others have said
Note from Michelle: This section is for comments from michellemalkin.com's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that I agree with or endorse any particular comment just because I let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with my terms of use may lose his or her posting privilege.
Trackbacks
- Stop The ACLU » Blog Archive » If Socialized Medicine Is So Great…
- UK residents’ exodus for better health care « Crush Liberalism
- Take Our Country Back
- New England Republican » Blog Archives » Are you ready for some Hillary care
- Don Surber » Blog Archive » Brits outsource health care
- Record number of Britons going oversees for healthcare » Infidels Are Cool
- Neocon News
- The Dead Fish Wrapper Watch
Comments
You must be logged in to post a comment.
Categories: Health care, Michael Moore
Pundit & Pundette
» Obama's drop in popularity and Michelle's handbag controversy
Pundit & Pundette
» Is the tide turning?Patterico
» Democrats Attack the CIATigerHawk
» The Blue Dogs are barkingRiehl World View
» Classless Paid Sarah Palin Assassin Mike Murphy (R)Weekly Standard
» Anchor MenRedstate
» $18 Million to Redesign Recovery.gov
Being a Brit, I can say with certainly that the NHS is broken.
Sicko is a very basic movie, passing over the problems and high taxes associated with health care in the UK.
But it’s still better than the mess over here - where ordinary INSURED people are faced with humongous medical bills….Americans do end up paying more in the long run and of course Brits live longer in the UK compared to the USA.
Just like never paying any attention to history so we can all relive the nightmares again, liberals don’t pay any attention to facts when they get in the way of their idealized picture of what they think healthcare should be. The fact that the likes of Hillary and Moore ignore the failures of countries that use socialism to take care of their ill, should give people pause before they support anything Hillary has to offer us in healthcare.
Keep your (1)socialized medicine and (2)your Islamification in Europe. We don’t want either here in the U. S.
Of course, increasing the second will lead to the need for increasing the first.
Still no Preview Button
Yes, Brits live longer. However, Americans have better teeth!!!! Tea, anyone?
This is the understatement of the morning. If it wasn’t so broken, Brits wouldn’t be coming over here!!!!
#1,
So, does that mean that you are on the next flight out of the US since it’s better over there in the UK?
I get to choose whether I want to take my company’s health plan, obtain health insurance at my own cost, etc…this is about choice. Why can’t you see that?
#2
And no matter how loud we scream “we don’t want socialized healthcare” the more we are told that we need it.
Want to drive down health care costs? How about getting rid of tort law first! How about exercise in schools and having health kids with healthy habits?
Tri
My guess is the preview button may have taken up bandwidth. Use a word processor and the cut and paste. Just as fast.
#4, priceless!
As I always comment, the same people who get up and march on January 22 with signs that read “KEEP YOUR LAWS OFF MY BODY” have no problem turning over their bodies to the government.
Let me make this clear for those who still don’t get it:
UNDER SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. THE GOVERNMENT CONTROLS THE PURSE STRINGS.
This means, who ever is in power makes the decisions. If they don’t like a behavior you engage in, or a food you’re eating, they have EVERY right to deny you treatment or require you stop doing Behavior A or eating Food B before allowing treatment. Your personal decisions are no more. Period.
Weigh too much? No coverage. Unless you lose weight and exercise.
Smoke? No coverage. Unless you quit an activity that is, currently, still legal.
Have too many kids? No coverage. Unless you stop.
There are myriad implications and invasions of privacy and personal choice that come with socialized medicine. It goes beyond long wait lists and dirty facilities (which are bad enough, thank you) - and int the very decisions we make in our every day lives. Decisions that - as adults - we should be able to make for ourselves and our families.
Decisions government-run health care would deny you.
Wife and I - middle class. Not wealthy, not connected, just average working-class white collar Americans.
We have health insurance which gives us a co-pay for meds.
I have had back-problems as well as shoulder surgery in the last 3-years. Also a couple of other medical situations that have come up.
I’ve never waited longer than a week for a medical appointment - that being the MOST.
I can get in to see my family physician - most times within 1-2 days if needed.
WHY would I possibly want a Government run system where I may have to wait MONTHS for a doctor’s appointment or medical treatment?
No Thank You.
I must warn everyone. Health care IT is pushing us to a point where even medical tourism won’t work.
Here’s the example:
-US goes socialized (Hint: it already is. It’s just not Federal socialized medicine, and the doctors can still take cash patients)
-You decide that you don’t want to wait a year for your knee surgery, because it is painful and almost impossible to keep it immobilized that long, so you go to South Africa.
-They register you and have you out in 2 days. They complete your appointment in their Health IT system
-You return to the US. Your provider calls to check up on your surgery (how did he know?)
-You receive a bill and notification from HHS saying that you will no longer be allowed to seek treatment on that knee, and a bill for your Federally mandated co-pay
Current pushes in Health care IT are looking to eliminate the barriers to information that paper records present. It is being innocuously pushed as preventing drug-seeking behaviors, or improving trend data to detect Avian flu. But the health “insurers” are using it to prevent payment, and rule out customers.
And the hidden secret: No provider has the time or energy to deal with all the information such a longitudinal record will provide.
With every good comes some bad. Health care IT is no different. But it helps support socialized medicine more than it hurts.
#1 “…and of course Brits live longer in the UK compared to the USA.”
Here we go yet again with statistics.
This statement is being given as if it were an established accepted fact.
Let us not get diverted into a meaningless, legalistic argument about whether the statistics are reliable, etc. It would be as much of a waste of time as arguing who was better - Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Hank Aaron, etc.
If that statement be true (a BIG if, in my opinion…well, then, I would answer that in life, besides quantity, quality also matters a great deal.
Also, I would ask, how many people from Germany, Hungary, the U.S., etc. go to Britain for healthcare?
BTW, the way that sentence in quotations is constructed, it could easily be interpreted as stating that Brits in the U.K. live longer than do Brits in the U.S.
From the 2006 revision of the United Nations World Population Prospects report, for the period 2005-2010:
United Kingdom: 79.4 years of age
United States: 78.2 years of age
Now, take into consideration that this is just 1 source of analysis, even if this is true…
I’ll give up the 1.2 years of my life to have free choice over which doctors I see and what medical choices I make.
#13 jrlingreenbay:
Yes indeed!
Exactly my point.
Well that proves it then Twinkies take 1.2 years off your life.
From here on out its Crumpets for me.
#1, sausage, not only would I not want to watch you being made, I wouldn’t want to live the extra 1.2 years you tout victoriously if I had to live them in the UK. In fact, I wouldn’t want to live the previous 78.2 years there either.
Not coincidental question…if it’s so great over there (admit it, cousin, it’s not), why are you still here?
Amazing how Brits are flocking to India which, according to this list, has a life expectancy rate of 64.7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy
I bet the Bear mush would add 1.2 years back so you can still eat the Twinkies (just not deep fried).
I’m not sure if the bear mush is benefitting me but my lawnmower is running great.
I have a friend that is a scientist and works in academia. He is convinced that socialized medicine is the way to go because it is “the moral thing to do” and “ALL Americans deserve free health care”.
I had a spirited debate with a lot of Michelle’s readers who are convinced that SCHIP is a politcal winner for Reps. (I believe that SCHIP is a huge political loser)
I believe that while reasoned and logical arguements are the best ones when it comes to sophisticated political observers, when it comes to the masses we must develop the same type of emotional arguements that the Dems have developed. John Stossel pointed out a story about a British lady that actually pulled out her own teeth with vodka and pliers It is those types of emotional arguements that we need to make as well, or the masses will really believe that socialized medicine is a good idea.
Never underestimate the naivite of the masses and the power that emotional arguements have on them.
The good news is that there are plenty of emotional arguements, like the one referenced here, that can be used by proponents of free market health care.
I wish Hillary would mke public with her 1 million ideas that are great for America. Then once and for all we could put her in the keebler cracker factory where she belongs making cackle grahams all day.
In light of this growing trend the British health officials will have to come up with some way to punish evil doers who dare to not use the wonderful socialized medicine available to them.
I think we may be being a little too critical of the British NHS here. After all, they do not have the benefit of employing superior Cuban health care professionals, (who incidentally can keep a ‘52 Buick in mint condition on their off-duty time).
I’m an ex-Brit, now a proud American citizen. I’ve lived here since I was 25, and whilst the current system here needs improvement, I would still choose healthcare here, rather than in Britain. To wait months for non-elective surgery is unacceptable, but this has been going on for years in Britain, for as long as I can remember,some 40 years or more. And as for “free” healthcare, nothing comes for free, we pay taxes for it. I know many people over there who elect to pay for private insurance along with their mandatory contributions, because they know that they’ll be able to see a doctor much quicker with their private insurance. No system is perfect, but anything that has the hand of the government in it, is doomed from the start.
#11, yes, the people who scream bloody murder if the NSA listens to bin Laden’s phone calls, want the government keeping track of your health records (and are mum on your insurance company sharing all that info everywhere.)
sausage, I at least appreciate your honesty concerning health care in the UK, but excellent health care is available in the US, and I also think it would be a lot less expensive if we tackled tort reform.
Anecdotal evidence isn’t the best kind, but both of my surgeries happened the day the problems were diagnosed. A family member with a serious disease called a world-class medical center in NY, they took her as soon as she could get there, a genius doctor fixed her up and in all cases our health insurance paid 80%. The balance seemed cheap, and thanks sausage, no need for you to pay.
Hey Sausage.
“Brits live longer in the UK compared to the USA.”
Slaving for the state. If you call that
“living”….okay.
Sausage UK life expectancy is only .7 over US
US 78.0
UK 78.7
In the scheme of things universal healthcare isn’t the answer.
I’m still stuck on the premise that Americans end up paying more. I’m pretty sure if you add up the taxes the Brits pay and then “divide” that by the level of service, the Brits pay more per unit of service.
#24 flmom:
“I’m an ex-Brit, now a proud American citizen.”
Belated welcome, cultural sib (way beyond cultural cousin, IMO)!
#28
my point exactly
It was a nice try on sausage’s part to convince us that the US isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. Add to that, “Being a Brit” and …”Americans do end up…” as if to say he/she isn’t an American after having lived here for however long.
Very nice of you to benefit from all that America has to offer and show no appreciation in return. Stand up guy you are…
Secure our borders first, get that problem running like a well oiled machine and maybe people will have more confidence in something run by the Government.
On Hot Air they have a story along this same lines about Canada that stated the following that is completely miss leading.
A scalpel and a willing doctor: the new tourist attraction
What is misleading about this? It is the fact that the overwhelming majority of these US citizens going overseas for “treatment” is the fact this treatment is for Plastic Surgery, not serious medical problems like in Canada or the UK.
#28 conservativesRus:
You’re most likely correct.
Nothing (except unconditonal love) is for “free” - nothing.
If anything, socialized medicine HAS to cost more per unit service because of the bloated bureaucracy through which the tax money is filtered before it is used to pay health providers.
Bureaucracy that will demand benefits, cost-of-living increases, and additional staff; which will lead to more demand for benefits, cost-of-living increases, etc, etc.
I would think an accurate analogy of how the U.K., or Canadian, or any socialist, nationalized healthcare system compares to the U.S. system, which is not yet under the complete stranglehold of the government;
would be to see how the U.S. Postal Service compares to UPS or to FedEx.
I rest my case.
I am Canadian and have access to the other system that was lauded in Moore’s piece of fiction. Seven years ago I was having trouble sleeping and staying awake during the day. My family doctor decided that I should go to a sleep clinic to have an assessment completed. It took THREE YEARS to get in and have this assessment. The diagnosis was chronic obstructive sleep apnea caused by a combination of obesity, a badly deviated septum and jumping leg syndrome. I was provided with a CPAP machine through the government funded Medicare but no humidifier. This attachment had a price tag of $400. Without the humidifier the CPAP machine causes dryness that can result in chronic bleeding in the throat and nasal passages. BTW, I am not allowed to purchase personal insurance that would have reimbursed me for this expense. My family physician decided that I should have the deviated septum repaired. I was placed on a waiting list and waited another TWO YEARS to have this operation completed and the only reason that it was this short was because I demanded to be referred to a facility in the US.
I dumped about 60 pounds and started to exercise regularly and no longer need the CPAP machine. Fortunately, this was within my control not the government’s so there was no waiting list for this treatment.
Within any medical insurance plan, whether public or private, there are only three ways to control costs; co-insure the benefits, restrict the benefits or access and degrade the quality of service provided. Almost all of the publicly funded plans in the world will restrict access and benefits because it affects the fewest voters. In other words, as long as there are more healthy people than sick people, progressive politicians will opt for the alternative that has the highest probability of re-election.
What evidence is there that the 1.2 year difference in UK and US life expectancy rates is linked to health care? I have no numbers on how things compare between the two countries, but isn’t it more likely that this difference can be attributed to factors like smoking, obesity, traffic accidents, etc?
AlohaGuy - I appreciate what you are saying and agree, tort reform is essential.
There has been many posts on this site from conservatives saying they are stuck with massive bills, despite having insurance. Health insurance in this country doesn’t cover everything (unless you are very wealthy) and there are plenty of middle class families with medical bills they have no hope of ever paying off.
For a country that can send billions and billions to the middle east, is it any surprised normal Americans are just a little bit annoyed with how their money is being spent?
As a side note, my teeth are excellent for a Brit, thanks to the NHS dentist when I was a kid :B
thanks, Granite, great to be here
Anyone know how it is decided when a surgery is elective? I ask because a Canadian woman in the article linked by mike volpe (#20) says a surgery that she needed to live was considered elective.
Here is another problem.
Room at the local hospital: $800 per night.
Room at Haitian hospital: $69 per night.
P.S. Haitian health care is better than you might think (and waaaaayyy cheaper too).
JW2 - “…needed to live” is a judgment (which I’m not qualified to make) that she made. It might or might not be true. Of course if you are a liberal, the whole phrase makes no sense because last time I checked, a baby doesn’t need a fork through it’s head to live but that treatment is considered acceptable for the convenience of the mother.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_461511146_2/Health_Care_System_in_Canada.html
Interesting read.
Soap: Room at the local hospital contains all the equipment which ever might be needed because if it’s not all there and someday no matter how remote, a person needed it, a lawyer would be there to enrichen himself greatly. Room at the Hatian hospital contains what is necessary.
Also have to remember, the room at the local hospital has to charge those who can pay for those who don’t. Our fearless leaders have made it so the hospital HAS to treat everybody..soooo guess who pays. YOU and I do.
Case in point, a guy who used to be here where I work blew his paychecks on anything but what was needed (chose not to have insurance here). Well when he went to the hospital, they had to take him..they did..he didn’t pay. They garnished his wages (of course, that cost the hospital money to even chase him for the money). He quit working here…disappeared from the garnishment. As far as I know, he stiffed the hospital for over $10,000 (almost 2 weeks in the bed there). Now multiply this by hundreds…guess who makes up the costs.
I admit I don’t know much about socialized health care system, so I’m just full of questions on this. I’m still fairly young; it was not too long ago that I was covered under my parent’s insurance, so there is a lot I don’t understand about health care in general. #41 made me wonder about something else…
As far I as can tell, abortion is legal in the UK for reasons such as protecting the physical and mental health of the mother, if the child has birth defect or disease, or for social or economic reasons and it is legal in Canada for any reason. At the risk of sounding stupid… How does socialized health care handle abortions? Are they covered under these plans? If the mother’s health is not at stake are they considered elective and therefore subject to a 4-month waiting period?
Rus:
Sure is a good point. However, they get the tax write off for what ever they charge - not the actual loss. We foot the bill for every indigent - okay. We foot the exaggerated bill - not okay. If you were running a business (not in health care) and you exaggerated your losses, you would go to jail.
So, we pay $800 per night to make up for an exaggerated loss they write off as well.
abortion was not a covered procedure, but things might have changed since I lived there, though birth control pills are prescribed free under the system.
Thanks flmom.
Sicko was shown a few weeks ago at a local cinema here where I live. My wife asked what the film was about and I told her it was about health care, and how Michael Moore was advocating socialized healthcare, akin to our own NHS.
The look on her face was priceless. It was the “honey, you know I love you but you have got to be joking” look. The fact of the matter is, the NHS is a total mess. The waiting times are long, and the service is poor. Things have gotten so bad, that my wife and I are actually considering getting private insurance, something non-middle class Brits rarely ever do.
The poor service, long waiting times coupled with the NHS lottery system (Google it for a sad read) makes it totally laughable that anybody would seriously try to advocate socialized healthcare.
This past Friday, I had oral surgery (dental implant)…
well the nurse who I got to speak with just prior to and after the surgery, informed me that her daughter lives in Canada in the Yukon territory. Well, it was interesting hearing about how things work up there. She indicated that the homes up there have reservoirs in their basements and three times per week (Mon., Wed., and Fri.), “the water truck” comes to delivery their water. This water delivery serves as their drinking water as well. They are rationing out water up there!
I don’t know if I could place that much faith in government in that regard.
Her daughter doesn’t have dental insurance and needs quite a bit of work done…guess where she is coming to have it done? C’mon guess…
Soap - my point is the loss isn’t exaggerated…somebody has to pay for that room.
Also - “they write it off…”. When they write off costs, it’s still expenses which they incurred.
Last I checked, hospitals are not bastions of making money hand over fist. It’s not an especially attractive way to make money. Cash flow stinks, lots of non-payers…lawyers at every turn - and sick people to boot.
amen#48, BTW, pgtips, my favorite cuppa!
Michael Moore and Al Gore are part of a global socialist propaganda machine. They are aided by the MSM, academe and the entertainment industry. If the American people ever really wake up here, there is going to be real hell to pay.
@ #51
Hehe, glad somebody picked up the reference
Scary thought of the day when thinking Governement Run /Socialized Healthcare:
DMV
CalTrans
INS
DHS
IRS
The employees that work for the above, will be the employees working within the Governement Run Healthcare System. Cheers!
feebie - and to think, recently in a thread here I made the comment that the gov’t isn’t known for being filled with the best and brightest and a bunch of our lib commenter here jumped all over me for my apparently insensitive remark. I second your concern. (We could make the list much longer)
Hi ConsRus.
Yes, but I was afraid of a massive hand/brain cramp with a full listing of the sleepwalkers inhabiting government positions…(pensions and a paycheck. All for showing up and BREATHING!!!)
Disasterous!
Shoot feebie…I didn’t know they had to breath too…that’s kinda a tough requirement.
My son worked in London for 3 years. He had to come home to get his teeth cleaned!
John Stossel pointed out that these “who lives longer” statistics cannot be taken at face value. There is no uniform reporting method. The UN just takes a number from each country. In many countries, they don’t count a child who lives only a short time as ever being born. I think the US figures include abortions as deaths at age 0. Also, unfortunately, murders in the US drive total population average life expectancy down and the health care system never even gets a chance to save many of those. So, it makes the health care system look worse.
As to the cost in a hospital: I know someone on a hospital board who says that hospitals typically collect 30% of the amount they bill insurers. A doctor told me it was closer to 20%. So, the hospitals bill $800 for a room, expecting to get paid $200. Its a stupid game that ends up giving us higher co-pays since we pay the full deductible.
More on why Michael Moore is a big fat idiot:
Read this Reuters article on Cuba’s dentistry woes.
Not true. I have bills from my son’s birth - some from a major screw-up with my HR department that didn’t file paperwork until May (son was born in March).
I pay off the bills in small increments ($5-$10 bi-weekly). The hospitals - save one - accept this, and the one that isn’t is violating laws with regards to collection of debt (according to my attorney). It will take a while, but it can be done. It requires discipline and sacrifice (i.e. - we eat out less, budget better, etc.)
I’d much rather send in those payments that have the government tell me there are no beds for my newborn, as they recently did to a mother in Canada. Or worse yet, to have the government tell me I should be sterilized or something for having “too many” children…
Living longer isn’t nearly as important as living better and independently.
Regarding life expectancy in the U.S., well, you know what they say: there are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics. John Stossel covered that in an August 2007 article. Basically, if you can avoid living in a gang-banger neighborhood and avoid distracted driving (hang up and drive!), you can generally expect a higher lifespan than most other industrialized nations. (Normally I regard him as a trusted source, but I do wish he would provide a source for his facts in this case.)
Ahem… The UK’s problem isn’t necessarily that they try to provide free healthcare… It’s not free. It is paid for by the VAT. I have a close friend that is from the UK (and India, a dual citizen). He was here studying medicine at the time, when he explained what the medical community in the UK can’t say due to the liberal media … Here is 90% of the problem: immigration. For instance, it seems that a LOT of AIDS victims from Africa find ways to get into the UK, illegally, where they immediately claim refugee status, claiming that due to their AIDS they are persecuted in their home country and will surely die if forced to return. They are given an apartment, an income (without working, since they are not authorized to work while waiting for the system to decide to let them stay or not), and FREE HEALTHCARE. Add to that all of the members of the Islamic invasion from the middle east that participate in their underworld economy, thus not paying the VAT, yet still get free healthcare, and the stage is set for disaster. (Underworld economy? according to Mehul, my friend, they have Muslim-operated stores and services that don’t charge the VAT to other Muslims… hush-hush…) But I digress… Free healthcare… It would actually work, if everybody did their part. But then again, communism would actually work if everybody did their part, but they won’t and we all know it. Besides, taking the profit out of healthcare stifles innovation which means that a lot of the major breakthroughs in medicine will not occur if pharmaceutical companies, hospitals, researchers, and doctors are expected to give it away for (next to) nothing.