Fallen Marine’s father speaks; foul Phelps clan to appeal
Albert Snyder speaks to the York (Pa.) Daily Record about his victory over the foul Phelps family, which–if yesterday’s jury verdict holds–must pay $11 million in compensation and punitive damages for its invasive protest at Snyder’s Marine son’s funeral in 2006:
“He was the first person I thought of when I heard the verdict,” Snyder said this morning. “I think my second thought was this is going to bankrupt them and that no other family will have to go through what we went through.”
Members of the Westboro Church stood outside the Westminster, Md., church where Matthew Snyder’s funeral was held with signs thanking God for dead soldiers and deriding homosexuality.
“It was like kicking you in the face when you’re laying on the ground,” said Snyder, of Spring Garden Township. “Everybody has a right to a dignified funeral service. I don’t think there’s anything more private than that except maybe having a baby. Basically, I just thought maybe this will stop them or deter them.”
The freaks say they will appeal the ruling. The Phelps leader combusted on cable TV last night.
The sooner these subhumans disappear the better.
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Please let the verdict survive appeal.
Who are the scum bags repping these losers?
#1:
Amen.
Thank God, both of my sons are beyond military age, although one of them works for DOD. I hate to think what I’d do if these vermin tried to desecrate my child’s funeral. A .45 is a little loud, and might cause more unwanted attention, but I would hope that any jury would label it justified.
We can only hope
I am not surprised that they’re going to appeal this but I also hope the verdict survives. It would be fantastic if it does and pray no other family ever has to suffer the indignity of these fools. Yes, trolls I realize they have their first amendment rights but families have the right not to have their loved ones funerals interrupted by people like this. BTW heard O’Reilly a few minutes ago say he would be having this gentleman on tonight. He also called this group “right wing loons”. We all know these people are registered Democraps and great supporters of the noble one, Al Bore.
I too hope this verdict stands, a funeral is no place for protests (especially insane ones.)
That said, I have to ask… $11 mil? How do they come up with these high amounts?
Terrig,
Thanks for your post. It is interesting that he is now calling the WBC group “right wing loons…” when on Monday’s show with KP and Ms. Hoover (can’t remember her first name), O’Reilly, verbally b!tch slapped KP by telling her that this group of thugs are registered democraps…she was going on about the church, blah, blah, blah.
I was actually lauding him for having said that, now he flips and calls this group right wing loons. Fair and Balanced, right, I get it.
These creatures made noise in their special way in front of my church earlier this year, as well as several other larger area churches. There were two or three of them per church with their picket signs. They are apparently not a very large group, which stands in contrast to the amount of coverage they generate. It was heart-warming to drive up and see them surrounded by various bikers and others gunning their throttles and drowning them out.
I also find it disgusting to see these clowns labeled “fundamentalist Christians” in the media. This description is used in numerous msm articles as I look through Google news today. Westboro clearly does not practice any fundamentals of Christianity that I can see, and they are as Christian as the ayatollah. I suppose the term is used in ignorance by the media, and perhaps by some to denigrate Christianity in general.
We can hope this lawsuit is followed by others and drains their coffers.
#4 Chief – any prosecutor would question your motives unless you carry all the time already…
Wouldn’t even be able to plea temporary insanity otherwise.
*no, I am not an attorney, nor do I play one in a popular television show.
Really hope the appeal is quashed, and the original determination upheld.
JW2
The basic judgment was for $2.9 million in compensatory damages. The jury then ruled another $6 million for punitive damages for the invasion of privacy and an additional $2 million for emotional distress that was caused by their actions.
Hey, if I had been the jury foreman I wold have pushed for 10 times that amount. I only wish there was a criminal charge that we could apply against these losers.
As for who’s reprsenting them, I think they represent themseleves because most of them are attorneys.
I pray that this verdict survives and I also pray that I live long enough to outlive Phelps. I would love to show up with a sign at his funeral.
I’m open to suggestions for my Phelps sign. Help me out.
No help for Phelps
Or:
Phelps is now in Hellps
I know, I’m bad
hey there Tim … you get my voice mail?
While serving in the Marines, I volunteered to be part of the honor guard for those who had fallen during the 80s. Whether by old age, accident, or whatever, we treated each and every burial as if it were that of a close friend.
Dignity ruled the day, regardless of rank. I buried WWII privates and decorated generals. Pouring rain, blistering heat, beautiful sunshine with a clear breeze. Each time, we Marines felt humbled and honored to assist the grieving families.
Nowhere and I mean nowhere did we ever encounter anything but appreciation. And yet, we were the ones who felt gratitude as we sent our fellow Marines to their final duty station.
What these people are doing is beyond moonbattery (is that a Malkin-ism by now?). It is worthy of wrath beyond compare. I hope the Patriot Guards and others will continue to protect and serve in the capacity they have chosen. Theirs is a unique and glorious — yea, necessary — service in this troubled day.
Thanks for hearing me rant.
Andy Hefty, former Sergeant of Marines
PS: Stay tuned for next week’s column, “Honor the Veteran.”
As a retired soldier and combat veteran, I have attended the funerals of some brave soldiers shot down in Iraq who I was honored to have served with and called friends. If that scumbag Phelps clan ever showed up at any funeral that I was at, they would have found out that they were coming to their own funeral.
It’s worth remembering that it wasn’t passing laws and arresting people that ultimately rid us of the KKK, it was suing them for every nickel they had.
It worked then, it’ll work now. We need to keep it up.
appeal..
no surprises there.
But hopefully they will be busy enough in court to quit bothering families.
quote of the morning.
Not being very fair to subhumans by comparing the to the Phleps cult no are we?
There is a GOD and HE will deal with this cult.
Hope it stands up under appeal, and I hope these guys go bankrupt.
Wait for it. Not only will they appeal the suit, they’ll probably countersue the Snyder family.
I believe a major portion of their income is through lawsuits (mostly freedom of speech lawsuits) – how else would they be able to sit at these protests? Clearly they can’t work if they’re hopping around the country mocking fallen soldiers and other tragedies.
Just a question for those with more legal savvy than me: if a family put in the public death notice that the funeral/burial was private and/or limited only to known relatives and friends, would this group be more culpable for their actions?
I’m sorry – I’m all for free speech and free religion. But just as it’s illegal to yell “FIRE!” in a crowded theatre, so too should this calculated, vile, hateful, and intentionally hurtful “protest” be limited.
No. No. No.
It probably got lost in the last Phelps thread, but, seriously, do you really want to restrict speech? You can’t go fining people tens of millions of dollars just because the things they say and believe are repugnant.
I used the example of Bell v. Colorado earlier. The case dealt with restrictions on protesters at abortion clinics. The Supreme Court, and I say this as a totally pro-choice Democrat, dropped the ball and upheld the restrictions. I recommend everyone read Scalia’s dissent.
Whether it’s a military funeral or an abortion clinic, free speech should not be trifled with. The Phelps family has every right to protest when and where they want on public property. The marketplace of ideas has unequivocally rejected their beliefs. But those beliefs remain protected.
If this decision is upheld, then we will see our right to petition and protest seriously undermined.
It sounds like Jim Jones we reincarnated and I am still waiting for this religion to follow the path his did.
Ah! No! The “Fire” example is a threat to people’s safety and well-being. These protests are not. The protests are not obscene (since it passes, at the very least, the political portion of the LAPS test).
Anti-choice demonstrations can very often devolve into things that are calculated, vile, hateful, and intentionally hurtful. But as long as you aren’t libeling anyone (and Phelps certainly isn’t), then you can’t restrict someone’s opinion.
Anyone want to bet me that this case gets overturned on appeal?
soap-box, (#18)
Agreed. God will deal with them, as He will deal with all of us. I have no problem with their pockets being empty on Judgment Day though. I hope their appeal is overturned and that every trip to McDonald’s is preceded by a flipping of their couch cushions for the rest of their lives.
Well we all know which church Rusty attends.
The 1st Church of Deleware (Reformed)
30 pcs and Terrig-
Who cares if Old man Phelps is a registered Democrat? When’s the last time he voted for one? You think he’s voting for Hillary, Really? You wanna go titfortat with Republican thugs and criminals, and overall horrible human beings?
This isn’t a left right issue. This is an issue of callous evil.
If you wanna call all the Phelps “democraps”, be complete and also call them “craptists”. They brag about their Christian beliefs, not their patriarch being a registered democrat.
I’m not willing to put any political or religious label on them. They’re in their own category.
I haven’t seen anybody complain how Hannity called them a left wing hate group. Oh yeah, Hannity is a “great American” who ALWAYS tell the truth, and O’Reilly isn’t conservative enough for ya. I hope you people have the guts to call democrats crap to their face, and out in public for your co-workers and fellow community to hear. Is that how you teach your kids to communicate? Did you learn how to throw crap at the end of words at Liberty U. 30 pcs? It’s really not cute. Some of you folks are no better the the “moonbats” you harp on. You’re two sides of the same immature coin.
– Rusty
This is a case of conflicting rights. There is long history of civil cases in which courts must decide that between two conflicting rights, which takes precedence. Either Powerline, or Belmont Club blog has a discussion of this concept that is worth reading.
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. An example is slander. If you slander someone, you can be sued for it. You can’t be imprisoned for it, but you can be held liable for monetary damages. You can claim this is different, but it seems very similar to me. . .especially when one considers the “Thank God for Dead Soldiers” sign that was present.
Rusty,
“Phelps certainly isn’t” libeling anyone?
This is libel. I would encourage you to read each of the signs individually to see if they contain libelous statements.
The definition of libel can be found here.
Buck I,
I can’t believe I am going to say this but, I agree with MOST of what you said. Then you go off and do the very same thing you are preaching on – name calling.
Last paragraph must have been frustration – eh?
The First Amendment gives no one the unfettered right to inflict intention emotional distress on another person. In 2003 the Supreme Court held, in Virginia vs Black, that “A State may punish those words ‘which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.’ We have consequently held that fighting words – ‘those personally abusive epithets which, when addressed to the ordinary citizen, are, as a matter of common knowledge, inherently likely to provoke violent reaction’ — are generally proscribable under the Fiirst Amendment.” There is absolutely no doubt in my legal mind that this decision will be upheld on appeal (the amount of damages is another matter – the court could reduce as excessive, although I personally believe it to be about right)
THIS IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO LIBEL OR SLANDER.
“Thank God for Dead Soldiers” is their belief. And you can not persecute people based on stating their beliefs. There is no libel or slander there.
The right to free speech and assembly is one of the most powerful rights we have. Why you all so willing to dilute that?
Well we all know which church Rusty attends.
I think their church building should be thrown in the ammount of damages – just to set an example!
Rusty, I think in this your objections are well intentioned but poorly grounded.
First of all, the government currently regulates where, when and for how long people can hold demonstrations. This is the very definition of restricting free speech, yet somehow the Republic survives.
But that’s immaterial anyway because we’re not talking about the government restricting speech here. No one said these whack-jobs can’t voice their opinion. What they were found liable for was the intentional infliction of emotional distress, something they clearly did. This is a well-recognized tort.
Nothing about this decision endangers the first amendment.
#32 –
I’m sorry guys, I have to say that I agree with Rusty as far as his church being discussed. That sort of joking just detracts from the points being made and only weakens our side of the debate.
That said… I’m not sure how cases of slander and libel play out in courts, but it seems to me that saying a person’s accidental death – at that person’s funeral – was payment for our country’s policies is specific and personal and must be categorized differently than just “stating their beliefs.”
Where is the line? What is protected statement of belief and what is a hateful attack for which we should be accountable.
Soap box.
Frustrated? Yes. I said “moonbats” to borrow a phrase used by the right, and I’m saying they’re behavior is often no better. Immature is just my opinion of using phrases like democrap, or republikkkan for that matter. I try to be consistent.
Legally, I unfortunately have to agree that this case will likely be reversed when appealed, unless, the opinion is drawn extremely narrow to not restrict protected speech. This case is a really close call.
I’d describe the KKK marching in downtown Columbus, Ohio as an analogy. I know the legal and logistical issues are completely different.
However, it doesn’t look right, or feel right, but it’s completely legal, because this is American, and unpopular views are protected.
I hope the decision is upheld, but it would have to be written very narrowly, or it could come to bite all of us down the road.
Here comes old pro-death Rusty again with this fantastic comment:
There is a death factory down the street from where I get my hair done. I’ve never seen anything more than people out there praying. Evidently you have quite the experiences at these places.
As for the filthy phelps klan, I would venture a guess you have no really close friends or family serving who have been killed where this motley crue has shown up with their signs. If you did, you would feel differently I’m sure but knowing your mindset, you’d probably join them in their “exercise of free speech” for free speech sake. This is a hateful attack against a grieving family who just lost a loved one so that these freaks can get out there with their stupid signs. I sincerely hope that you never have to encounter these tools at a funeral for one of your loved ones.
I just want all you liberals to remember that you can’t restrict free speech the next time a conservative says something you disagree with (read: the Fairness Doctrine).
It’s especially ironic considering CA just basically made it illegal to mention gender at all in public schools, pointing to the need not to discriminate against same-sex couples, homosexuals, and transgendered persons.
I believe the only reason liberals and the ACLU support Phelp’s “free speech” has less to do with them actually supporting the First Amendment than it does with them hoping to use Phelp’s and his hatred as the broad brush with which they can paint religious persons who oppose homosexuality.
We just can’t win. We speak out against indoctrination of homosexuality in schools (see the aforementioned CA law) and we’re bigots. We criticize the very real, vile, and targeted biogtry of Phelps and we’re quashing free speech.
We just can’t win.
The Fairness Doctrine is terrible. No argument from me there.
I don’t give a rats ass about the Phelps free speech rights. Those animals are the poster children for bringing back drawing and quartering.
Plus they’re the ugliest bunch of inbred trailer park trash I’ve ever seen.
There is a group of vets/bikers that have been showing up at these military funerals just TO keep these idiots away. I think they are called “Freedom Riders”. I might be wrong though because I haven’t heard anything about them for awhile. I am checking my sources though. When I find out for sure, I will post a link (if possible). Maybe we can get the word out about these fine patriots so that this will never happen again. : )
englishqueen
We win – in the end! Fight the good fight, run the race to win.
#41 – look here:
Standing for those who stood for US
# 41, I believe TrinityTim is one of the Patriot Riders. Thank God for them!
EnglishQueen:
The ACLU has also come out in support of people like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh.
I think the ACLU is just zealous on issues of free speech and privacy. I don’t think this is all part of some secret, dubious plan to advance and aid homosexuals.
Your 3rd paragraph seems out of context, and a little cynical. I haven’t seen anything to support your view of the ACLU using the Phelps family as an example of religious people who oppose homosexuality.
I also disagree with Fairness Doctrine.
Check out Patriotguard.org
OT but just saw this article:
Tibbets Obituary
A different article says:
“Tibbets had requested no funeral and no headstone, fearing it would provide his detractors with a place to protest, said Gerry Newhouse, a longtime friend.”
Now that is a truly selfless act.
RIP General Tibbets
Un-Be-Lieveable.
A church group forcing their views on people they don’t know, in the name of their god, using the trappings of freedom to put a grieving family under duress, and then appealing a decision by a civil court to adjudicate morality- which they seem to have lost in the first place.
Get a clue, Phelps. Make your own circle strong against the perceived ravages of homosexuality. Use the spiritual tools you have either been given or usurped for yourself to do the work with your own people. That is the extent of your influence. If you want to be like Jesus and start a movement, go spend 40 days out in the desert and check out your own motivations and face your demons.
Stop washing your own dirty laundry vicariously through these “protests”.
You make me sick. Heaven will ultimately rule against what you are doing- and no amount of 2-legged lawyering is going to change that. Check the Book and say it aint so, Brother.
Peace be unto ye.
-Rusty
I’m not. But I’m simply aware that the right to freedom of speech doesn’t include the right to freedom from the consequence of that speech. THAT is what the Phelps face. No one disrupted their freedom to say what they thought. The law happens to provide recourse to those victimized by hate speech, libel, and innumerable other types of free speech. And that’s as it should be.
OT but I think important
Michelle you need to get all over this. Paul Tibbets has died and the headline at the AOL news site is
“Legendary WWII Pilot Dies”
“Didn’t Regret Killing of 80,000″
If that is not a loaded headline I don’t know what is.
Yashmak – the right to freedom of speech doesn’t include the right to freedom from the consequence of that speech
Really nicely put…
“Legendary WWII Pilot Dies”
“Didn’t Regret Killing of 80,000″
Great headline and why should he regret it? his mission probably saved 500K between both sides…great man, great patriot.
Now this makes for an interesting situation. I know they have ax handles in that part of Pennsylvania. So, if someone opened the side of Phelps’ head with an ax handle, that would be prima facie evidence that the speech was not protected.
I’ll leave those legal arguments to lawyers, but it would be nice if they took these peoples houses away from them. I’m sure that they could be converted into AIDS clinics and put to a useful purpose.
Jaded,
I agree with you that he has no reason to regret what he did and that his mission did help hasten the end of the war, along with the second atomic bomb. I have always thought this and have argued it with others before. But to me it looks the headline is meant put Tibbets and his accomplishment in a bad light. I don’t know, I think the headline could have played up his heroism more or his part in ending the war.
Maybe something like this.
“Legendary WWII Pilot Dies”
“Mission helped shorten WWII″
Rusty,
I love how you just ignored my post. I show you a picture of the libelous/slanderous actions of the Phelps cult, provide you with a dictionary definition of the word libel, and you gloss over it and continue with your free speech argument. Libel and slander are not free speech. This is not free speech. It’s cruel, disrespectful, and, most assuredly, not protected by the first amendment.
“Fag troops?” “Your Pastor is a whore?” For cryin’ out loud, God and the United States of America should get in on this lawsuit, too. According to the Westboro Baptist Church, America is a “fag nation” and God “blew up the troops,” “sent the IED’s,” and gave us the “gift” of 9-11. It sounds to me like they can stake a claim to more of the WBC’s cash.
What? Your awareness is wrong. Free speech is all about being protected from legal consequences from holding unpopular views. Otherwise you’re dealing with prior restraint and people who are unable to advance their way of thinking because they’re afraid of the consequences. That doesn’t sound very free to me.
Kevin from OH in VA,
I ignored your post because you are wrong. I am aware that libel and slander are not protected. This is neither libel nor slander. Unless you can definitively prove way or another that God does not actually hate “fags.” But I don’t think that’s something any human is capable of.
Providing me with a link to the definition of libel is unnecessary. I’m no dummy. Phelps’s clan isn’t calling Snyder gay with no proof or anything like that. Phelps is saying America and its soldiers and citizens are suffering for its “sins.” Again, you can’t prove that one way or another.
I agree that this speech could fall into the “fighting words” restrictions of free speech. However, these restrictions are extremely limited and they don’t really cover political and religious assembly. The KKK is allowed to assemble and chant whatever the Hell they want. The American Nazi Party is allowed to march in a town with one of the largest Holocaust survivor populations. (SC Case here.) Surely that’s comparable to protesting a soldier’s funeral.
Traditionally, with the exception of Hill v. CO (which was a mistake), these things are always protected.
There’s the rub. They have the very same Constitution as us. Protection for some and not for all is a terrible precedent to set. This precedent could be applied to anti-choice demonstrations, military protests, and all sorts of legitimate assembly. We don’t want that, do we?
OK, I’ll grant you that you’re not stupid, but clearly you’re not smart enough to see that they are indeed defaming the reputations of these fallen heroes and are thus guilty of making slanderous and libelous statements. By referring to them as “fag troops” and making statements like “Your Pastor is a whore!” as they did in that photo that I showed you, they have created an unjustly unfavorable impression of our military heroes and their pastors.
By the way Rusty, you sure are arrogant.
Rusty and KevOhiVA:
What’s a fag, a gay slur insult, right?( I know that Ann Coulter claims it’s simply a school yard taunt, whatever). What’s a whore in the context of what the Phelps’ are saying? These words simply don’t rise to the level of libel or slander. It could just be an opinion, digusting though it may be, or likely just brutal name calling. Could you imagine how often we’d be in court if being called nasty names was all it took to bring a libel or slander claim?
The key issue in this case is the intentional infliction of emotional distress. This is the issue that will be the key to surviving appellate review.
Their obviously can’t be a defense of satire or parody which was protected in the Hustler Magazine/Falwell case.
I just don’t see this as a libel/slander issue. This is still a close case, but if the decision survives it will be all about intentional infliction of emotional distress based on the timing, placement,
content, and setting of the disgusting taunts. I do hope the Snyders win.
I too hope and pray that this verdict survives. Having seen the Maryland Court of Appeals in action however, I do worry that their liberal bias may come into play and reverse this great ruling.
If it is reversed I promise that the Patriot Guard Riders will pick up where we left off. None of these cultists will be able to yell above the roar of our motorcycles and disrespect our bravest of the brave.