All aboard the impeachment bandwagon: Cheney first, Bush next; Update: Dem House leader Steny Hoyer to block Kucinich resolution; Update 1:37pm Eastern: Kucinich on the House floor; Update 2:58pm Eastern Hoyer moves to table the resolution; Update 3:43pm Eastern: Vote still underway, flurry of vote-changing; Update: Hoyer motion fails; Denny K’s nutroots measure moves forward, the impeachment circus will “get its day in court;” Update: The Democrat switch-a-roonies; Update 7:45pm Eastern: What will Conyers do?
Update 7:21am Eastern 11/7. A Daily Kossack suggests that Kucinich to do it over and over and over again.”
Update 8:00pm Eastern: Quip of the night goes to corruptocrat Alcee Hastings. Gotta love the blue-on-blue action:
Kucinich “is on a quest of his own. He sees flying saucers and he acts like one,” Hastings said.
Update 7:45pm Eastern. What’s next? Fox is reporting that Kucinich claims House Judiciary Committee chairnut John Conyers told him the resolution is alive. Conyers is playing coy (hat tip – Paul M.):
Kucinich savored the victory, saying that Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers
had reassured him and backers of the resolution “that he would in fact launch an impeachment inquiry.” But Conyers told FOX News that he would announce his decision on Wednesday after speaking with House Democratic leaders.House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has previously stated that she did not want the impeachment articles to come to a vote. High-ranking Democratic Rep. Alcee Hastings, who was himself impeached while a judge in Florida, said he was not happy with Kucinich’s attempts to raise the matter on the floor in an attempt to circumvent the normal legislative process.
Update. The Hill reports that Rep. John Shadegg gets credit for outmaneuvering the Dems.
Who were the Democrat switch-a-roonies? Brian Faughnan:
There were 81 Democrats who voted to have an impeachment debate when they were pretty sure it would be tabled, then turned around and voted to prevent a debate when it was clear one might occur. Those opportunists are:
Neil Abercrombie
Tom Allen
Joe Baca
Tammy Baldwin
Bruce Braley
Lois Capps
Mike Capuano
Yvette Clarke
Bill Clay
Emanuel Cleaver
Steve Cohen
John Conyers
Joe Crowley
Elijah Cummings
Danny Davis
Pete DeFazio
Norm Dicks
Lloyd Doggett
Mike Doyle
Keith Ellison
Sam Farr
Al Green
Gene Green
Raul Grijalva
Luis Gutierrez
Phil Hare
Maurice Hinchey
Mazie Hirono
Paul Hodes
Rush Holt
Mike Honda
Darlene Hooley
Jay Inslee
Jesse Jackson
Sheila Jackson-Lee
Hank Johnson
Stephanie Tubbs Jones
Paul Kanjorski
Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick
Barbara Lee
John Lewis
Dave Loebsack
Carolyn Maloney
Betty McCollum
Jim McDermott
Greg Meeks
Mike Michaud
Brad Miller
Gwen Moore
Jim Moran
Grace Napolitano
Solomon Ortiz
Mike Pallone
Bill Pascrell
Ed Perlmutter
David Price
Charlie Rangel
Laura Richardson
Lucille Roybal-Allard
Bobby Rush
Jan Schakowsky
Bobby Scott
Jose Serrano
Carol Shea-Porter
Brad Sherman
Louise Slaughter
Hilda Solis
Pete Stark
Bart Stupak
Betty Sutton
Mike Thompson
John Tierney
Ed Towns
Nydia Velázquez
Mel Watt
Anthony Weiner
Peter Welch
Bob Wexler
Lynn Woolsey
David Wu
Albert Wynn
Update 4:52pm Eastern. Rolls are not up yet, but they’ll be here. Word is that Denny K’s measure is effectively dead because the Dems won’t act on it in the Judiciary Committee. Brian Faughnan at the Weekly Standard observes:
4:31 Update: Looks like the Democrats successfully regrouped after that first vote surprised them. The House just voted 218-194 to send Kucinich’s impeachment resolution to the Judiciary Committee. This effectively kills the bill, preventing a debate on impeachment.
It’s interesting that on such a weighty question as impeaching the vice president of the United States, votes can change so quickly. While the roll calls are not yet available, it seems there were plenty of Democrats who voted to go forward with impeachment when they thought it would fail, who suddenly voted against impeachment when it mattered. I guess it was all just about politics after all — even for the supposed ‘true believers.’
Indeed. I’ll post the roll calls when they become available.
Update 4:35pm Eastern. “The House just voted, 218-194, to send the resolution to the Judiciary Committee. That should end today’s debate- but it does keep the resolution at least technically alive.”
AP:
GOP Forces Debate on Cheney Impeachment
House Republicans, changing course midway through a vote, tried to force Democrats into a debate on a resolution to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney on the grounds he purposely led the country into war against Iraq.
The GOP tactics reversed what had been expected to an overwhelming vote to table, or kill, the resolution by longshot Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich.
Midway through the vote, with instructions from the GOP leadership, Republicans one by one changed their votes from yes _ to kill the resolution _ to no, trying to force the chamber into a debate and an up-or-down vote on the proposal.
At one point there were 290 votes to table. After the turnaround, the final vote was 251-162 against tabling, with 165 Republicans voting against it.
“We’re going to help them out, to explain themselves,” said Rep. Pete Sessions, R-Texas. “We’re going to give them their day in court.”
Heh.
Update 4:30pm Eastern. Chaos! Steny Hoyer’s motion to table the Denny K resolution fails 251-162.
Update 3:52pm Eastern. The current tally now shows 170 yeas, 242 nays, and 21 not voting. The nays now include 164 Republicans. It does indeed seem to me that the GOP is maneuvering to embarrass the House leadership and defeat Hoyer’s motion to table the nutroots impeachment resolution.
If you’re in the know, correct me if I’m wrong.
This is the first of four votes. We’re over an hour into a vote that was supposed to take 15 minutes.
An MSM blogger notices the developments on the floor:
At first, a whole bunch of Republicans voted with Hoyer to kill the resolution. Then they came to their senses and are in the process of switching their votes before the gavel comes down.
*** Update *** Now we are being treated to the spectacle of Democrats who had voted to table/kill the measure changing THEIR votes. They don’t want to be in a postion of defending Dick Cheney if they don’t have to.
Update 3:43pm Eastern. The vote to kill Kucinich’s impeachment resolution is wrapping up. C-SPAN’s tally shows 207 yeas (to kill), 204 nays (to support), and 22 not voting.
The nays include 133 Republicans.
Not sure what’s going on. Maybe Republicans want it to pass to embarrass the House leadership?
Lots of last-minute switching…now it’s 204 yea, 207 nay…192 yea, 219 nay…189 yea, 222, nay…
A simple majority is needed to kill the resolution. 218 is the magic number.
Update 2:58pm Eastern. Steny Hoyer just made his motion to table Kucinich’s resolution.
Update 2:54pm Eastern. If you’re in the mood for a quick trip to fantasy land, the video of Denny K is up at Hot Air.
Update 1:37pm Eastern Nutroots-mania on the House floor! Kucinich is now reading his impeachment resolution.
Update 1:27pm Eastern. This report claiming Steny Hoyer will block Kucinich’s impeachment resolution is attributed to Dow Jones…haven’t seen it anywhere else yet…so FWIW…
U.S. House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., said Tuesday he will block an effort to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney. Democratic presidential hopeful Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio has announced he will try to force a vote on Cheney’s impeachment. Hoyer said he will use parliamentary tactics to table that effort.
“Impeachment is not on the agenda,” Hoyer said.
Hoyer said his decision was not based upon the merits of the impeachment effort, but rather because the new Democratic majority had more important issues to resolve.
The wire dispatch is also on NASDAQ (via reader William Amos)…
Update 11:50am Eastern. Here’s the Kucinich campaign video about his impeachment crusade on YouTube. It’s self-parodying. At the end of the video, a Kucinich staffer announces a nationwide raffle to win the chance to spend an evening with Kucinich’s beautiful moonbat wife and watch the next Democrat debate with her while sticking pins in Bush and Cheney voo-doo dolls. Okay, I made that last part up about the voo-doo dolls:
Update 11:23am Eastern. Oh, crikey, they actually have an “Impeach Cheney First” song.
And I guess this little logo at the official Impeach Cheney site is for non-English speakers. Or something:
Reader Steve e-mails:
The peach that they are using in the logo at the official Impeach Cheney site is the logo from Sage Software’s Peachtree Accounting software. I just happen to have the box on my desk while I’m installing their latest version. I wonder if Sage Software (one of the largest accounting software firms) might have an issue with the nutroots using their logo.
Here’s a reference. It’s the three little droplets of water that give it away as being stolen.
***
I told you on Friday about Dennis Kucinich’s privileged resolution to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney. Well, today’s the day. The UFO-spotter will hold a press conference at 3pm Eastern. The After Downing Street mob is singing a new left-wing tune: All we are saying is give impeachment a chance.
Kucinich’s co-sponsors are Jan Schakowsky, Maxine Waters, Hank Johnson, Keith Ellison, Lynn Woolsey, Barbara Lee, Albert Wynn, William Lacy Clay, Dennis Kucinich, Yvette Clarke, Jim McDermott, Jim Moran, Bob Filner, Sam Farr, Robert Brady, Tammy Baldwin, Donald Payne, Steve Cohen, Sheila Jackson Lee, Carolyn Kilpatrick, Ed Towns, Diane Watson.
There was supposed to be a conference call last night about the resolution, but so many unhinged members of the nutroots community called in, that they apparently crashed the lines:
Democratic Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich is planning to re-schedule a nationwide conference call to discuss Articles of Impeachment against Vice President Richard B. Cheney after tonight’s planned event encountered technical problems stemming largely from the overwhelming volume of calls from interested citizens.
The Kucinich campaign apologized for the snafu, explaining that staff had significantly underestimated the number of call-ins, and public interest in the issue exceeded technological capacity. The call will be re-scheduled within the next few days.
Kucinich, author and prime sponsor of the impeachment measure against Cheney, will be introducing a privileged resolution to the House tomorrow (Tuesday) to force a vote on the matter of impeachment.
LB at Don’t Go Into the Light cracks: “…perhaps he couldn’t establish an up-link with the mother ship.”
Here’s the text of the resolution:
RESOLUTION
Impeaching Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Resolved, That Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, and that the following articles of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:
Articles of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, against Richard B. Cheney, Vice President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.
Article I
In his conduct while Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of Vice President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States by fabricating a threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction to justify the use of the United States Armed Forces against the nation of Iraq in a manner damaging to our national security interests, to wit:
(1) Despite all evidence to the contrary, the Vice President actively and systematically sought to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States about an alleged threat of Iraqi weapons of mass destruction:
(A) `We know they have biological and chemical weapons.’ March 17, 2002, Press Conference by Vice President Dick Cheney and His Highness Salman bin Hamad Al Khalifa, Crown Prince of Bahrain at Shaikh Hamad Palace.
(B) `. . . and we know they are pursuing nuclear weapons.’ March 19, 2002, Press Briefing by Vice President Dick Cheney and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon in Jerusalem.
(C) `And he is actively pursuing nuclear weapons at this time . . .’ March 24, 2002, CNN Late Edition interview with Vice President Cheney.
(D) `We know he’s got chemicals and biological and we know he’s working on nuclear.’ May 19, 2002, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(E) `But we now know that Saddam has resumed his efforts to acquire nuclear weapons . . . Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt that he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us.’ August 26, 2002, Speech of Vice President Cheney at VFW 103rd National Convention.
(F) `Based on intelligence that’s becoming available, some of it has been made public, more of it hopefully will be, that he has indeed stepped up his capacity to produce and deliver biological weapons, that he has reconstituted his nuclear program to develop a nuclear weapon, that there are efforts under way inside Iraq to significantly expand his capability.’ September 8, 2002, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(G) `He is, in fact, actively and aggressively seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.’ September 8, 2002, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(H) `And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons.’ March 16, 2003, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(2) Preceding the March 2003 invasion of Iraq the Vice President was fully informed that no legitimate evidence existed of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The Vice President pressured the intelligence community to change their findings to enable the deception of the citizens and Congress of the United States.
(A) Vice President Cheney and his Chief of Staff, Lewis Libby, made multiple trips to the CIA in 2002 to question analysts studying Iraq’s weapons programs and alleged links to al Qaeda, creating an environment in which analysts felt they were being pressured to make their assessments fit with the Bush administration’s policy objectives accounts.
(B) Vice President Cheney sought out unverified and ultimately inaccurate raw intelligence to prove his preconceived beliefs. This strategy of cherry picking was employed to influence the interpretation of the intelligence.
(3) The Vice President’s actions corrupted or attempted to corrupt the 2002 National Intelligence Estimate, an intelligence document issued on October 1, 2002, and carefully considered by Congress prior to the October 10, 2002, vote to authorize the use of force. The Vice President’s actions prevented the necessary reconciliation of facts for the National Intelligence Estimate which resulted in a high number of dissenting opinions from technical experts in two Federal agencies.
(A) The State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research dissenting view in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate stated `Lacking persuasive evidence that Baghdad has launched a coherent effort to reconstitute it’s nuclear weapons program INR is unwilling to speculate that such an effort began soon after the departure of UN inspectors or to project a timeline for the completion of activities it does not now see happening. As a result INR is unable to predict that Iraq could acquire a nuclear device or weapon.’.
(B) The State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research dissenting view in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate also stated that `Finally, the claims of Iraqi pursuit of natural uranium in Africa are, in INR’s assessment, highly dubious.’.
(C) The State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research dissenting view in the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate references a Department of Energy opinion by stating that `INR accepts the judgment of technical experts at the US Department of Energy (DOE) who have concluded that the tubes Iraq seeks to acquire are poorly suited for use in gas centrifuges to be used for uranium enrichment and finds unpersuasive the arguments advanced by others to make the case that they are intended for that purpose.’.
The Vice President subverted the national security interests of the United States by setting the stage for the loss of more than 3300 United States service members; the loss of 650,000 Iraqi citizens since the United States invasion; the loss of approximately $500 billion in war costs which has increased our Federal debt; the loss of military readiness within the United States Armed Services due to overextension, lack of training and lack of equipment; the loss of United States credibility in world affairs; and the decades of likely blowback created by the invasion of Iraq.
In all of this, Vice President Richard B. Cheney has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as Vice President, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and the manifest injury of the people of the United States. Wherefore, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, by such conduct, is guilty of an impeachable offense warranting removal from office.
Article II
In his conduct while Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of Vice President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, purposely manipulated the intelligence process to deceive the citizens and Congress of the United States about an alleged relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda in order to justify the use of the United States Armed Forces against the nation of Iraq in a manner damaging to our national security interests, to wit:
(1) Despite all evidence to the contrary, the Vice President actively and systematically sought to deceive the citizens and the Congress of the United States about an alleged relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda:
(A) `His regime has had high-level contacts with Al Qaeda going back a decade and has provided training to Al Qaeda terrorists.’ December 2, 2002, Speech of Vice President Cheney at the Air National Guard Senior Leadership Conference.
(B) `His regime aids and protects terrorists, including members of Al Qaeda. He could decide secretly to provide weapons of mass destruction to terrorists for use against us.’ January 30, 2003, Speech of Vice President Cheney to 30th Political Action Conference in Arlington, Virginia.
(C) `We know he’s out trying once again to produce nuclear weapons and we know that he has a long-standing relationship with various terrorist groups, including the Al Qaeda organization.’ March 16, 2003, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(D) `We learned more and more that there was a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda that stretched back through most of the decade of the ’90s, that it involved training, for example, on biological weapons and chemical weapons . . .’ September 14, 2003, NBC Meet the Press interview with Vice President Cheney.
(E) `Al Qaeda had a base of operation there up in Northeastern Iraq where they ran a large poisons factory for attacks against Europeans and U.S. forces.’ October 3, 2003, Speech of Vice President Cheney at Bush-Cheney ‘04 Fundraiser in Iowa.
(F) `He also had an established relationship with Al Qaeda providing training to Al Qaeda members in areas of poisons, gases, and conventional bombs.’ October 10, 2003, Speech of Vice President Cheney to the Heritage Foundation.
(G) `Al Qaeda and the Iraqi intelligence services have worked together on a number of occasions.’ January 9, 2004, Rocky Mountain News interview with Vice President Cheney.
(H) `I think there’s overwhelming evidence that there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi government.’ January 22, 2004, NPR: Morning Edition interview with Vice President Cheney.
(I) `First of all, on the question of–of whether or not there was any kind of relationship, there clearly was a relationship. It’s been testified to; the evidence is overwhelming.’ June 17, 2004, CNBC: Capital Report interview with Vice President Cheney.
(2) Preceding the March 2003 invasion of Iraq the Vice President was fully informed that no credible evidence existed of a working relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda, a fact articulated in several official documents, including:
(A) A classified Presidential Daily Briefing ten days after the September 11, 2001, attacks indicating that the United States intelligence community had no evidence linking Saddam Hussein to the September 11th attacks and that there was `scant credible evidence that Iraq had any significant collaborative ties with Al Qaeda’.
(B) Defense Intelligence Terrorism Summary No. 044-02, issued in February 2002 by the United States Defense Intelligence Agency, which challenged the credibility of information gleaned from captured al Qaeda leader al-Libi. The DIA report also cast significant doubt on the possibility of a Saddam Hussein-al-Qaeda conspiracy: `Saddam’s regime is intensely secular and is wary of Islamic revolutionary movements. Moreover, Baghdad is unlikely to provide assistance to a group it cannot control.’.
(C) A January 2003 British intelligence classified report on Iraq that concluded that `there are no current links between the Iraqi regime and the al-Qaeda network’.
The Vice President subverted the national security interests of the United States by setting the stage for the loss of more than 3,300 United States service members; the loss of 650,000 Iraqi citizens since the United States invasion; the loss of approximately $500 billion in war costs which has increased our Federal debt; the loss of military readiness within the United States Armed Services due to overextension, lack of training and lack of equipment; the loss of United States credibility in world affairs; and the decades of likely blowback created by the invasion of Iraq.
In all of this, Vice President Richard B. Cheney has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as Vice President, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore, Vice President Richard B. Cheney, by such conduct, is guilty of an impeachable offense warranting removal from office.
Article III
In his conduct while Vice President of the United States, Richard B. Cheney, in violation of his constitutional oath to faithfully execute the office of Vice President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has openly threatened aggression against the Republic of Iran absent any real threat to the United States, and done so with the United States proven capability to carry out such threats, thus undermining the national security of the United States, to wit:
(1) Despite no evidence that Iran has the intention or the capability of attacking the United States and despite the turmoil created by United States invasion of Iraq, the Vice President has openly threatened aggression against Iran as evidenced by the following:
(A) `For our part, the United States is keeping all options on the table in addressing the irresponsible conduct of the regime. And we join other nations in sending that regime a clear message: We will not allow Iran to have a nuclear weapon.’ March 7, 2006, Speech of Vice President Cheney to American Israel Public Affairs Committee 2006 Policy Conference.
(B) `But we’ve also made it clear that all options are on the table.’ January 24, 2007, CNN Situation Room interview with Vice President Cheney.
(C) `When we–as the President did, for example, recently–deploy another aircraft carrier task force to the Gulf, that sends a very strong signal to everybody in the region that the United States is here to stay, that we clearly have significant capabilities, and that we are working with friends and allies as well as the international organizations to deal with the Iranian threat.’ January 29, 2007, Newsweek interview with Vice President Cheney.
(D) `But I’ve also made the point and the President has made the point that all options are still on the table.’ February 24, 2007, Vice President Cheney at Press Briefing with Australian Prime Minister in Sydney, Australia.
(2) The Vice President, who repeatedly and falsely claimed to have had specific, detailed knowledge of Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction capabilities, is no doubt fully aware of evidence that demonstrates Iran poses no real threat to the United States as evidenced by the following:
(A) `I know that what we see in Iran right now is not the industrial capacity you can [use to develop a] bomb.’ Mohamed ElBaradei, Director General of International Atomic Energy Agency, February 19, 2007.
(B) Iran indicated its `full readiness and willingness to negotiate on the modality for the resolution of the outstanding issues with the IAEA, subject to the assurances for dealing with the issues in the framework of the Agency, without the interference of the United Nations Security Council’. IAEA Board Report, February 22, 2007.
(C) `. . . so whatever they have, what we have seen today, is not the kind of capacity that would enable them to make bombs.’ Mohamed El Baradei, Director General of International Atomic Energy Agency, February 19, 2007.
(3) The Vice President is fully aware of the actions taken by the United States towards Iran that are further destabilizing the world as evidenced by the following:
(A) The United States has refused to engage in meaningful diplomatic relations with Iran since 2002, rebuffing both bilateral and multilateral offers to dialogue.
(B) The United States is currently engaged in a military buildup in the Middle East that includes the increased presence of the United States Navy in the waters near Iran, significant United States Armed Forces in two nations neighboring to Iran, and the installation of anti-missile technology in the region.
(C) News accounts have indicated that military planners have considered the B61-11, a tactical nuclear weapon, as one of the options to strike underground bunkers in Iran.
(D) The United States has been linked to anti-Iranian organizations that are attempting to destabilize the Iranian government, in particular the Mujahideen-e Khalq (MEK), even though the state department has branded it a terrorist organization.
(E) News accounts indicate that United States troops have been ordered into Iran to collect data and establish contact with anti-government groups.
(4) In the last three years the Vice President has repeatedly threatened Iran. However, the Vice President is legally bound by the U.S. Constitution’s adherence to international law that prohibits threats of use of force.
(A) Article VI of the United States Constitution states, `This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land.’ Any provision of an international treaty ratified by the United States becomes the law of the United States.
(B) The United States is a signatory to the United Nations Charter, a treaty among the nations of the world. Article II, Section 4 of the United Nations Charter states, `All Members shall refrain in their international relations from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state, or in any other manner inconsistent with the Purposes of the United Nations.’ The threat of force is illegal.
(C) Article 51 lays out the only exception, `Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defense if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security.’ Iran has not attacked the United States; therefore any threat against Iran by the United States is illegal.
The Vice President’s deception upon the citizens and Congress of the United States that enabled the failed United States invasion of Iraq forcibly altered the rules of diplomacy such that the Vice President’s recent belligerent actions towards Iran are destabilizing and counterproductive to the national security of the United States.
In all of this, Vice President Richard B. Cheney has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as Vice President, and subversive of constitutional government, to the prejudice of the cause of law and justice and the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore Richard B. Cheney, by such conduct, warrants impeachment and trial, and removal from office.
And that is just the beginning.
Kucinich called up a left-wing blogger to let him know that Bush is next:
Congressman Dennis Kucinich said on a conference call Monday evening that after moving to impeach Vice President Cheney on Tuesday he will also introduce, at a future date, a resolution to impeach President Bush. Or rather, he would have said that on the conference call if not for several technical SNAFUs.
The call was advertised as a one-way call on which only Kucinich could speak, but Kucinich was unable to get through because of the incredible number of people on the call (I have no count yet, but the dings of the new people coming on were a steady stream of noise for half an hour).
So Kucinich phoned me, and I held one of my phones up to another so that everyone on the call could hear him. That was working fine for about 20 seconds, until the geniuses running the call chose that moment to mute everyone except Dennis (without stopping to realize that by muting me they were muting Dennis). So, Kucinich gave a nice speech through my phones, but I was the only one listening.
What will Nancy “Impeachment is off the table” Pelosi do?
Stay tuned for the day-long circus.
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Trackbacks
- Blue Crab Boulevard » When The Circus Comes To Town
- Aside: Impeachment Palooza — Pirate’s Cove
- Don't Go Into The Light
- Bloodthirsty Liberal » Go Ahead, Make His Day
- Ladies and Gentlemen [Dan Collins]
- Liberty Pundit
- Buck Naked Politics
- Rosie searching for sycophants « Mark’s Soap Box
- Wake up America-Republcans stage a coup
- Wizbang
- Riehl World View
- Cop The Truth
- Ed Driscoll.com
- Don Surber » Blog Archive » GOP forces impeachment vote
- Impeaching Cheney « Axis of Right
- the beth zone » Blog Archive » Shall I Eat Impeach? Dept.
- Republicans Keep Cheney Impeachment Alive : The American Pundit
- Keith Burgess-Jackson » Moonbattery
- The Oxford Medievalist
- RealClearPolitics - Blog Coverage
- Let Freedom Reign
- Fore Left!
- PAXALLES
- Don Surber » Blog Archive » Honk to impeach
- Publius Pundit
- Michelle Malkin » Impeachment: The stage production
- Marginalized Action Dinosaur » Impeach Cheny
- Rosie searching for sycophants | Mark's Soap Box
- Michelle Malkin » The impeachment circus never takes a holiday
- November, 2007 Archive « Right Minded Online
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Rusty.
You may think that the Gulf war was won and over with. But Saddam never surrendered. There was a ceasefire which he violated continuously for 12 years. So strictly speaking that war was not over till we went in again and took him out. A ceasefire is what it says a ‘ceasing of fire’, but he did not cease firing! Learn you history a bit better than this. Oh but I forget that history is being rewritten as we speak!
Rusty, no matter how you want to spin it, the support for the ousting of saddam was overtly bi partisan…….so Kucinich has lots of splainin to do, as to why he singles out Cheney.
Would he be impeaching Weslet Clark, had he become president ?
Wesley Clark, 2004 Democratic presidential candidate, discusses Saddam’s WMD:
WESLEY CLARK: He does have weapons of mass destruction.
MILES O’BRIEN: And you could say that categorically?
WESLEY CLARK: Absolutely.
MILES O’BRIEN: All right, well, where are, where is, they’ve been there a long time and thus far we’ve got 12 empty casings. Where are all these weapons?
WESLEY CLARK: There’s a lot of stuff hidden in a lot of different places, Miles, and I’m not sure that we know where it all is. People in Iraq do. The scientists know some of it. Some of the military, the low ranking military; some of Saddam Hussein’s security organizations. There’s a big organization in place to cover and deceive and prevent anyone from knowing about this.
Wesley Clark, Democratic Presidential Candidate
During an interview on CNN
January 18, 2003
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/18/smn.05.html
Were, yes. But nothing substantial after we invaded. Maybe they moved them to Syria, maybe they’re still hidden, maybe they really were destroyed. Who knows. Our intelligence did a terrible job of finding out before invading.
And part of the problem with the intelligence was that this administration was unquestionably looking for a reason to invade Iraq. Cheney was willing to show everyone the intelligence that supported an invasion while downplaying the intelligence that said quite clearly that Iraq was nowhere close to nuclear capability and that their WMDs weren’t operational and that Iraq had no ties with al-Queda.
And there’s the problem. We were willing to listen to anyone or anything that would support an invasion. The fault lies with the administration, the intelligence community, and the legislators (Dems included) who bought that crock.
And Fat Tone, I agree the impeachment legislation is ridiculous. There’s a lot of people to blame for this fiasco. Cheney is on the top of the list, but by no means should he be singled out.
Hey Rusty…..oh one of no memory
But they were no threat to us, our allies, or the region. And Bush lied.
Try again dude.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html
So many of my Democrat friends(yes some of my friends are idiots)use the argument that since the weapons weren’t found,Bush was lying.They can’t think far enough ahead to realize that W has had four years to plant all the evidence he would need.The fact that weapons weren’t found therefore proves that he did not lie-he honestly believed the weapons were there-I still do.
Rusty, for fairness’ sake…I believe that the war in Iraq was way more convoluted than just the WMD rationale….that was simply a part of it. And the admin went about ousting saddam all wrong. Granted, it was an unprecedented military victory…..however, the aftermath of allowing the insurgency was more egregious ( IMHO ) than being wrong about the presence of WMD.
Ultimately, ousting saddam was about being a presence in the Middle East for the long term, with permanent military establishments ala Korea, Japan and Europe, and the tactical value of such a presence, not being tallied for decades to come.
It’s not imperialism, inasmuch as it’s policing. I dare say had we marched to baghdad in 1991, and ousted saddam then, we would NOT be having this discussion today…..
I don’t believe the intelligence was manipulated by us (Cheney). I believe it was manipulated by those Iraqis who wanted Saddam out of power. This was part of their propaganda war to get their country back.
I don’t know if you’re aware of this Rusty, but the list of people that bought that “crock” included every government on Earth, including the ones that were against invasion. It also includes President Bill Clinton, who signed the law making Saddam’s removal an official US policy goal years before Bush took office. If you look back at how the debate went in 2002-2003 there was no one taking the position that Saddam didn’t have weapons. Indeed, many people opposed invasion based on the fear he’d use such weapons if attacked.
The notion that people only believed it because they wanted a pretext to invade ignores the actual history.
Mark my words: If the Dems try to impeach Bush and/or Cheney, they will lose the Presidential election.
Thanks,hatelibs:I forgot about the ones that were found.My bad.
Rusty said
“Nothing substantial after we invaded”
How on God’s earth could any President take the chance after 911 that a nut like Saddam would share what he had with a terrorist organization? And 500 munitions (found AFTER) we invaded isn’t exactly something to ignore.
Saddam refused to comply with the demands of the entire world for over 10 years and was hell bent on controlling the Persion Gulf. The WMD’s were only part of the picture. Remember that he allowed AlQaeda save refuse in Iraq after we send them running from Afganistan. Saying Iraq wasn’t a threat is ludicrious…period.
mytake……Chalabi.
Thanks hatelibs,
I have been telling my lib college profs and classmates about this since I got here.
Still pathetic that people would rather believe a lie from the media, rather than from people who have served and fought in OIF.
GSP
Exactly
Blues…
You are welcome. I can’t believe that there is still the excepted perception that there weren’t any. And AFTER we invaded.
The problem is that the Bush Administration has never communicated the bigger picture well with the American people. They are fighting a hostile press and an uneducated population but after 911, no President could sit back and hope the intellegence was wrong. The prevention approach has worked despite the mistakes handling the war. It sure beats cleaning up after another attack here. And that cannot be argued.
Good news for Dennis the Menace. Mars is only about 55 million miles away from Earth at this time. So if he can successfully uplink his broadcast to the mother ship, they can relay it back to Mars in about 5 minutes. In plenty of time for W-KOS (the NBC affiliate on Mars) to make it the lead on the 6 pm broadcast.
What a colossal waste of tax payer money!
Just as in the courts they have penalties for vexatious litigants for filing ridiculous lawsuits, they should have the same rules for our House and Senate with these absurdities .
Vexatious Legislation = Utilizing our House and Senate to create measures and hearings to use as diversions for political purposes, which create a colossal waste of tax payer money. Any one caught doing this should be subject to reparations to tax payers for each and every count.
Nonsense.
Rusty,
You said that you were not in favor of the war in 2003.
Please answer this, were you in favor of continuing or ending each of the following in 2003?
1. The 24/7 enforcement of the United Nations trade sanctions?
2. The 24/7 of the United Nations northern no-fly zone?
3. The 24/7 of the United Nations southern no-fly zone?
Mark my words, as soon as the dimocraps see the numbers start to plunge over this, they will disavow Dennis Kucinich. He is so lower tier.
P.S. The dimocrap Presidential candidates will be strangely silent!
If I start seeing a lot of “Impeach Cheney” stickers around I’m getting an “Impeach Clinton” sticker. Oh wait that’s old news. An “Impeach Hillary” sticker….same crimes as Cheney
Iraq was given enough warning of our invasion to have had plenty of time to smuggle weapons out of the country.
I keep thinking of Iraqi behaviour during the 12 years they were operating under UN sanctions. Instances of refusing to allow inspectors admittance to sites they wished to see. Claiming a gate on the back side of fence surrounding one of their compunds had been locked for years, despite fresh tire tracks in the grass, etc.
Saddam’s offer of $25,000 to families of Palestinian suicide bombers was ample evidence of his attitude toward terrorists.
I’ve always thought the invasion of Iraq had a twofold purpose–a short range goal of ridding the world of a dangerous dictator; and a long range goal of increasing pressure on Iran by putting the US military on both sides of them.
So, does that mean that every single one of the Democrats who said the exact same things that are claimed in these Articles of Impeachment dating all the way back to the mid Nineties can and will be impeached out of their offices as well? Will we be seeing Kucinich, so as not to appear to be a hypocrite and in the interest of fairness and equality, file papers on the likes of John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton etc., for having made the exact same claims concerning WMD’s and nuclear weapons dating prior to Bush even being in office?
After all, Cheney and Bush was using the same Intel as their false god Bill was using, and in fact, even used the same people to deliver the assessments.
I really hope and pray that this is the final nail in the coffin for these insane people on the Left. If this actually does go forward, the simple fact that there will be witnesses and evidence brought forward to finally and once and for all shut these idiots up may actually be a good thing, annd we all know that there isn’t a chance in Hell that they will have the required votes to convict let alone throw them out. All this will do is guarantee that come this time next year, all those seats they won and were so proud of will revert back to Republican hands and it will be a long time before people alow them into power again.
Ret…
“All this will do is guarantee that come this time next year, all those seats they won and were so proud of will revert back to Republican hands and it will be a long time before people alow them into power again.”
For the sake of this country and the world, let’s pray you are right!
“Strength through peace”.He didn’t see a UFO,he lives in one.
Funny, that parodic ending. Funnier that if any one of us had made that video, we’d be called haters or racists (they’d figure a way to work that one in somehow).
I guess Syria was so technologically brilliant as to be able to move forward with a nuclear program, so far that they actually had NORKs consulting on the project. How did they go so far so fast?
I wonder where the cornerstones for that program came from? Where did the technological expertise come from?
There are still millions of pages of classified Iraqi documents that haven’t been sorted through about the WMD programs under Saddam’s various bureaucratic controls.
And what kind of idiot would divulge to the public any sensitive information about what we know just to keep a treasonous batch of Moon Loons off their butts with trivial arguments about impeachment?
Keep secrets and retain strategic advantages- like, uh, being able to wipe out a Syrian nuke project before Iran and Syria knew what hit them.
These yo-yo’s are underestimating the US and Israel because they don’t know what we know about their subterfuges (and centrifuges for that matter).
There is a fundamental difference between keeping secrets for the American people and keeping secrets from the American people. I think the former is where Cheney will come out a hero in all of this era of Condi horsecrap that is going on.
Kucinich actually cites the freaking State Department (you know the guys who can’t speak Arabic or Farsi!) to support his articles of impeachment.
They are two hours ahead of baboons in terms of their ability to evolve intel about a geopolitical situation that is so obviously out of their control.
There is still debate going on over the transfer of infrastructural assets to Syria. How much and when. Is it being reported by the MSM? Nope. Because the jury has already decided the “facts” for us. One more reason why their readership is going down: they insert themselves into the stories.
Can the NYT even report on WMDs since their involvement in the Plame charade?
I hope the impeachment goes on and Cheney lays out things that the public does not know. The carping of Moon Loons is no reason to let our enemies know what we know.
Why do you think Pelosi has taken impeachment off the table? She is many things, including traitorous, but perhaps not as big an ass as Leonard Nimoy’s love child- Dennis Kucinich.
Kucinich has motive and opportunity for this debacle: raise his poll numbers before Iowa and New Hampshire so he can continue his ridiculous facade of being a perennial presidential candidate.
A total and vacuous moron.
And as for the crowd that insists that Bush and Cheney “lied”- this is not some playground bully saga where Billy lies to his friends about taking little Sarah’s candy.
The Bush Doctrine has made a fundamental break from the string of Presidents since Truman who catered to these Alpha Hotels in the middle east region. Saddam had to go. Game over. Iran is next. Syria. Next. Hezbollah next.
In the meantime, Condi is given enough diplomatic play for the US to say “See? It doesn’t work.” Just like sanctions and UN threats didn’t work against Saddam.
Game over.
Kucinich’s articles of impeachment will implode under the duress that scrutiny by finer legal minds bring to bear on them.
He actually uses the words “Press Reports” to corroborate some of these articles. Duh!
Kucinich holds Cheney responsible for 650,000 civilian deaths since the invasion. Good luck with that. “WAAAAA! He took all the candy from everybodyyyyY!!!!!”
Can’t we find a city in America to give Kucinich so he can wreck its economy for a decade or so, just like he did as Mayor of Cleveland. Talk about contempt for the rabble of flyover country.
They love him here in Berkeley. And the copper hat crowd is behind Kucinich’s socialist boondoggle of creating a US Department of Peace.
“How do you know it wouldn’t work?” they ask. Just the same way they ask “How can you say for sure that MAN is NOT creating global warming?”
Between wet brain, THC psychosis and purple haze, the Kucinich and Code Pink crowd are singing their swan songs.
They are in their mid 50s and above- if they fail to have their impeachment and the war in Iraq succeeds in its mission they will fall out of politics in “great disillusionment”- their typical funk when they don’t get their way.
Uh, yes tons of them were found:
1) 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium
In a joint Energy and Defense Department operation, 1.77 metric tons of low-enriched uranium and approximately 1000 highly radioactive sources were secured from Iraq’s former nuclear research facility, packaged and then airlifted on June 23, the press statement said.
“This operation was a major achievement for the Bush Administration’s goal to keep potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists,” Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said in the statement. “It also puts this material out of reach for countries that may seek to develop their own nuclear weapons. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
2) 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents
U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
3) 17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)
“Laboratory tests showed the presence in them of cyclosarin, a very toxic gas, five times stronger than sarin and five times more durable,” Bieniek told Poland’s TVN24 at the force’s Camp Babylon headquarters.
“If these warheads, which were still usable, were used on a military base like Camp Babylon, they would have caused unforeseeable damage.” http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/07/02/international1018EDT0516.DTL
and:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html
4) Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas. “Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 “highly radioactive sources” were also removed.
The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department’s secret laboratories.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
5) Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and “conventional” sarin gas, assembled in binary chemical projectiles for maximum potency
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
Dennis’ “news anchor” was more convincing when she was pushing Ditech home loans on TV.
It didn’t take Liberals long to revise post-9/11 history, huh? I love watching Rusty and LGM argue their points using nutroot fabrications of reality. Amazing…it was only 4 years ago yet people have all but forgotten the facts.
Bear – as always, excellent post, my friend!
I loved Kucinich on SNL!
30! saw that. very funny. im with ya!
Ah, the sleeping Bear is awake and brings it home – again.
Great post Bear!
Seriously, don’t they have better things to do? It isn’t like he will be VP again this time around or something.
Maybe it is just me but I don’t see the point in attacking an administration that is on its way out the door.
Feebz- Bon journo, Bella! Gratzie!
bon giorno, piasan!
Thanks, Soap. A little hair of the BearDawg for Dennis the Menace.
I just don’t see how it’s credible to go after Cheney for impeachment, given the large bi-partisen effort for the war. Impeachment here is political gamesmanship, and a complete was of time and money. I have nothing good to day about Cheney(except he never tried to disown his lesbian daughter or negatively judge her in public), and history will properly place this administration for the disaster that it has been. That being said, impeachment is wrong and hypocritical.
Do you folks remember those polls from the start of the war, where many Americans thought Saddam was behind 9/11? There are a lot of stupid sheep in this country, but it certainly isn’t all of Cheney’s fault. Colin Powell had the track record and credibility to speak up back then, but he refused to do so. His reputation is forever stained. Saddam was an evil leader, but the world is full of evil leaders that we have no plans on waging war against. Osama Bin Laden is still alive and well, likely in Pakistan(our “ally”), and is planning his next 9/11.
I am not sure if saying Powell “refused to do so” is a fair statement. Mr Powell is a pretty decent individual. I believe he was getting his information like everyone else was, from the CIA.
#132 – bear, its tricky. ive taken both in school. they sound similar…spelling is different. (feebs talking about spelling…BWWWHHHAAAA HA HA HA)
Yep Bear, but you spelled DOH right
I believe Bush tackled the issue of Congress waisting time on B.S. investigations last week.
lgm I think your mistaken Harding and teapot dome, Bush Admin. are not even close to corruption unlike the Clinton Admin.
Clinton Corruption:
http://prorev.com/legacy.htm
I think some people should be checked for Altzheimer’s.
Bear, that was awesome.
#118 RetFireman…I have to “object” to one thing in your comment. You said “once and for all shut them up”. If only we could be so lucky – but they have never let facts get in the way of their feelings before.
That number is greatly inflated and most likely more trumped up shit pulled out of the ass of a democratic spin meister. The bodies would be waist deep in the streets, if so. A good article on that subject is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article1469636.ece
Incidently, the ball park figures for Saddam Hussein’s body counts run from 300,000 to a million, including the Iran-Iraq war. That includes the murders,executions,and “disappearances”.
did someone say pizza?
oh, piasan
nevermind.
CRus,
It would take a wrecking ball full of facts to go through their house and they still probably wouldnt get it.
Oh yeah, I’d like to add that I’m ashamed to have to admit that the little moonbat is from my hometown. He was a disastrous embarassment as mayor, and he’s even more so now. I guess every village has to have an idiot….
*feebs giving AJ death stare…
The more I learn about Cheney the more I am glad he is VP for Bush.
9/11 hammered this administration in so many ways. I wonder what malarkey John Kerry would be peddling to the American people right now.
That the administration has been a disaster in domestic affairs (not the economy) I won’t argue that point. But like any admin it is a mixed bag at worst.
But this administration has muddled its way through a very difficult and new kind of warfare, to a point where the next president will reap some significant benefits- if HE can listen to our generals and admirals who have actually killed enemies in battle; not the Clinton-era careerists who have choked alot of the air out of the President’s immediate surroundings.
The key to the next decade will be less about who is President and more about who the PResident chooses as Secretary of Defense.
I am glad Cheney still has a little over a year to run the table in the Middle East.
As for our little friend, Kucinich, may he find his ignominious place in the dust bin of history.
Bear #142…I concur.
Fat Tone: We haven’t met.
The pleasure is mine.
Aj: Pizza tonite at North Beach Pizza here in Berkeley. A politically incorrect sausage, pepperoni, green pepper, feta, and jalapeno MONSTA!!!!
Image: Bear1909 putting a pair of pilot shades on the feebz delicate brow lest the death glare strain reach critical levels of pain and suffering for the aJ mano.
Zachary’s on Solono Ave. My favorite!
*sniff sniff…i miss pizza.
AJ, be afraid – be very afraid.
Wow. I swore I was not going to watch that video. I see the writers beat the deadline before the strike.
People are buying this? Dern evolution. Crap like this make you wonder if we are evolving INTO apes.
AJ, hand me a banana and a slice.
how far from the airport bear?
hehe…
It’s pretty pathetic Kucinich and Co. can’t see to give our own V.P. the same benefit of the doubt as they did real live terrorists, in Assad and Mahmoud.
This is a pathetic and disgusting man — a partisan hack who cares only for politics, not the good of the country.
Richard,
Watch the video. He is doing it for you and me – LOL.
Hack – spitooy
PBoilermaker! Glad to read it. I decided to save that one.
OT: aj it’s about 5 miles as the crow flies on University at Sacramento (1 block north). Do you want google coordinates?
Zachary’s on Solano- i love their Pizza it’s always too crowded though. Bear gets testy in line. Not pretty.
Back on topic: I cannot imagine how a human being goes through multiple heart surgeries, lives on the verge of having the big one blowing up their heart- and stay in the game like Dick Cheney has done.
And besides getting married to somebody clearly above the level of his own goulash city gene pool, what has Dennis Kucinich actually achieved in Congress. (along with Pelosi Galore, Lee and other
do nothings.)
fixed it.
I think Cheney should be impeached because he cherry-picked evidence against Iraq while omitting exculpatory evidence. I feel he helped get us into an unnecessary war and I hate to say this but I feel he has the blood of all the soldiers and Iraqi people killed, wounded and tortured on his hands…
I do not say this proudly; I say this as a disappointed Christian conservative who prays for our troops, our country and Iraqi children daily.
While I don’t generally have much good to say about Steny Hoyer, it sounds like he’s got it right this time.
Yeah, like address continued funding of our troops, doing something appropriate about illegal immigration, reducing corruption in their own party, etc.
Wherefore quote: What an Idiot- unquote
To wit: This guy wants to be President???
Bear……this is a blog I share…..
drop by.
I actually wish they’d let him proceed. That way at least more people would get to see how ridiculous the whole notion is. Just read the allegations. Nothing Cheney’s alleged to have said is really even false, let alone a “lie.” The “articles” rely on various opinions that pointed to different conclusions, like a DIA assessment, and “findings” that were based on evidentiary standards the intelligence community could never meet.
I’d like to see them embarrassed by this, rather than it look like there really are impeachable offenses that have occurred and that Cheney’s being protected because of politics.
southernboy #157. And exactly what alternative do/did you see to taking out Saddam?
They will table it for fear of having to go on the rolls as a “yea” or “nay” vote.
They are mostly all cowards.
Soap = nay (as in cut the crap)
A Christian conservative who WANTS to impeach out VP?
Am I on the right site?
He was containable, just like other autocrats are (Ahmadinejad, Musharraf, Kim Jong-Il, numerous African warlords, etc.).
I feel so much blood and treasure was wasted for no real reason, or at least a reason that is not readily apparent to me. I feel that we do not go to war to liberate other people, especially considering we torture the people we claim to be liberating.
Let’s see if I follow the logic of Rusty the Troll here.
Hussein had WMD, but they were okay because they were primitive and old, but they were really really bad because Reagan gave them to him, but they were okay because Bill Clinton ordered magic Tomahawk missile strikes that destroyed all of them, but they were really really bad because they killed thousands of Iranians, but they were okay because Saddam didn’t have any connection to Al-Qaeda anyway.
Whew! I think I got whiplash.
This would be hilarious if they FY08 spending bills were already on the Presidents desk. I’m really less than impressed with this little gelflin and the do nothing Democrats.
southernboy: “he was containable” Want to make sure I got it straight. Just like Hitler and Hirohito?
Am I the only one who thinks there’s a good chance this clown (Kucinich) will join forces with Ron Paul in a third party bid? I’m not saying it will happen, I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised.
Southernboy…..who has been tortured ? Could you be referring to Abu Ghraib ? If so, I believe the perpetrators are in jail….thus trumping any notion of such behavior being policy of the USA.
southernboy @ 157 said:
Moby.
Southernboy – We torture? where? proof please.
conservativesRus said:
The dinners at Guantanamo! The rice pilaf served with the chicken WAS AT ROOM TEMPERATURE!
conservativesRus said (#166):
Before WWII, Germany and Japan were among the greatest industrial powers on earth. Japan had conquered much of China. Iraq in 2002 was nothing by comparison. It had been contained for a decade and easily could have been contained for decades more
thank you angry….I also forgot the color TV had static on the picture one night during the CBS news.
Fat Tone: I’ll be a daily reader. Like the format. The underuse of photos is cool too. Easy on the eyes. Great use of white space. Great reads.
Thanks for the heads up, mano.
Why must you be logical and factual?
Bear…thanks…spread the word……
Nope, not referring to Abu Ghraib. That incident, while bad, was just a symptom of a systemic pattern of abuse and torture permitted by the chain of command.
Pictures are worth a thousand words sometimes.
Southernboy….go ahead and lay the proof on us…..
Just as a heads up, even waterboarding, which was admittedly used on three prisoners, including KSM, has been taken off of the board by this admin…so what is this policy of torure that you speak of ?
All ears here.
Southern – #177…you didn’t give proof, you only made an allegation.
I think waterboarding is torture. Why doesn’t the government?
Who would Jesus torture?
Me thinks me smells a troll trying to make it sound like Christians are the problem.
Iraq – contained – BWAHHAAAAHHAAAAHA
Yep, they contained the UN and flew in the face of the world. I knew I smelled a troll.
Pure speculation. His influence in the UN had not been contained (Oil for Food). His influence in Palestine had not been contained (25 grand to families of homicidal bombers). His refusal to pay back a $10 billion loan to an Italian bank that he stole outright.
His murdering sons and their buddies raping and killing women in Iraq. (Whoops! What happens in Iraq stays in Iraq!)
Your use of the word “easily” betrays an absence, or at best- grossly deficient- understanding of how easy it was for the Iraqi people to endure what they still have difficulty speaking about openly in their country.
PS: Neither China nor Germany were sitting on world class supplies of the key resource for all industrial economies- OIL.
hey wait – I’m still trying to understand the notion of containment. I don’t think the League of Nations did very well. I don’t think United Nations has done very well. Seems to me containment was/is the policy of those bodies and IT DOESN”T WORK
Speaking of waterboarding (since you brought GOD into it) HE wiped the planet clear of all but 8 people with – you guessed it – water.
I can tell you who Jesus beat the crap out of when they made a mockery of the Temple.
Who would Jesus bomb?
Containment = APPEASEMENT