I’ve seen all the declassified reports released by the Pentagon, as well as a few still classified reports…

That’s it, indulge your inner truther. Still, I can’t help but think it’s odd that hostile reporters can obtain and publish all sorts of top secret stuff but have somehow missed this golden opportunity to further undermine the war effort.

Christ opposed torture.

Might want to brush up a little on your theology. According to Christian tradition Hell was one of the first things God made. It’s a bit more severe than waterboarding and depending on which Christians you listen to people can end up there for eternity for something as mundane as consensual sex. That doesn’t sound like a very hard-line stance against torture to me.

So your appeal to authority, while amusing, is invalid.

Prime Director-
You’re right, of course. But just as I often cannot resist the donuts in the break room I sometimes feel compelled to feed the trolls. I’m only human

Fight the temptation to feed the trolls.

Whenever possible, address issues, not people. There are posters here who are not who they pretend to be. They just want to prevent principled discussions on the issues and precipitate personal power struggles that can go nowhere. Don’t let them waste your time.

Christ opposed torture.

Look, I would still be an advocate of our Iraq policy if the military nipped the torture thing in the bud and really laid down the law. Unfortunately, the leadership in military and civilian government has shown to me that they do not care about preventing torture.
In fact, they appear to be promoting it. That is where I part ways with the U.S. government.

Again you make this assertion but fail to provide any actual, you know, evidence. Can we have some examples please? Or are you content to simply parrot the irresponsible rhetoric I referenced above?

You also have yet to give any substantive answer to my various responses to you.

Don’t like it? Too bad.

Yes, that certainly is a rigorous critical thinking process you have there. You’re a true paragon of logic and reason.

(That was sarcasm, in case you haven’t looked it up yet.)

On November 8th, 2007 at 11:26 am, Andy said:

What!?!?! Your claims of rational logic notwithstanding, this borders on trutherism.

Show me one example where the command wasn’t already investigating incidents of abuse before the MSM glommed onto the story? The fact that prosecution usually occurred long after the fact only means due process. Something that the MSM typically find themselves unable to give, rushing to judgement, usually negative, instead.

Look, I would still be an advocate of our Iraq policy if the military nipped the torture thing in the bud and really laid down the law. Unfortunately, the leadership in military and civilian government has shown to me that they do not care about preventing torture.

In fact, they appear to be promoting it. That is where I part ways with the U.S. government.

Don’t like it? Too bad.

… the military’s refusal to stop the widespread abuse of POWs

What!?!?! Your claims of rational logic notwithstanding, this borders on trutherism.

Show me one example where the command wasn’t already investigating incidents of abuse before the MSM glommed onto the story? The fact that prosecution usually occurred long after the fact only means due process. Something that the MSM typically find themselves unable to give, rushing to judgement, usually negative, instead.

Yes. I stopped supporting the policy in early 2004, about a year in, after learning of the torture revelations and the military’s refusal to stop the widespread abuse of POWs

Well, you’re kinda shooting yourself in the foot here, because that is anything but a logical reason to change your mind on the war.

Unless you’re some kind of bloodthirsty lunatic you can only have supported the war because you thought there was a compelling national interest to be served by waging it. How does the misconduct of our soldiers nullify that national interest? Are you saying that a country of 300 million should suffer because a fraction of a percent of its soldiers behave badly?

That’s assuming for the sake of argument that such torture and widespread abuse even occurred. I’ve seen no evidence of this, and I seriously doubt you could produce any (the writings of S.T.Beauchamp don’t count). Our military has conducted itself, as usual, in a restrained and merciful manner that is historically unprecedented.

Macerenn-

Yes, unquestionably the Islamist problem grew like a weed through the Reagan and G.H.W. Bush administrations. And though they had bigger fish to fry at the moment (like winning the Cold War) I don’t think that gives them a full pass.

My point was that it was on Clinton’s watch that they grew demonstrably more bold and violent and he did nothing about it. That was the very definition of irresponsible.

On November 7th, 2007 at 8:31 pm, trinitytim said:

Southernboy…

You have been opposed to the war for the past couple of years huh. So does that mean you supported the war before then and what changed your mind?

Yes. I stopped supporting the policy in early 2004, about a year in, after learning of the torture revelations and the military’s refusal to stop the widespread abuse of POWs.

You have been opposed to the war for the past couple of years huh. So does that mean you supported the war before then and what changed your mind? I would also like to know which “war” you have grown to oppose? Is it the war on terrorism or the war on truth or the war on Islamofacism?

Be more specific so that we may intelligently respond to your positions. As to you being a traitor, we can not yet answer that.

JamesFelix.. #78.. Right on. Great post.