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Foreign-language idiocy: A bipartisan problem

By Michelle Malkin  •  November 19, 2007 02:29 PM

Last week, I noted the spat between Hispanic Democrats and the Dem leadership over a non-binding Republican motion instructing House conferees on an appropriations bill to accept a Senate-passed provision banning the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission from suing employers over certain English-speaking requirements. John Fund has a related follow-up column:

It’s been less than a week since New York’s Sen. Hillary Clinton and Gov. Eliot Spitzer had to climb down from their support of driver’s licenses for illegal aliens. Now House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has moved to kill an amendment that would protect employers from federal lawsuits for requiring their workers to speak English. Among the employers targeted by such lawsuits: the Salvation Army.

Sen. Lamar Alexander, a moderate Republican from Tennessee, is dumbstruck that legislation he views as simple common sense would be blocked. He noted that the full Senate passed his amendment to shield the Salvation Army by 75-19 last month, and the House followed suit with a 218-186 vote just this month. “I cannot imagine that the framers of the 1964 Civil Rights Act intended to say that it’s discrimination for a shoe shop owner to say to his or her employee, ‘I want you to be able to speak America’s common language on the job,’ ” he told the Senate last Thursday.

But that’s exactly what the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission is trying to do. In March the EEOC sued the Salvation Army because its thrift store in Framingham, Mass., required its employees to speak English on the job. The requirement was clearly posted and employees were given a year to learn the language. The EEOC claimed the store had fired two Hispanic employees for continuing to speak Spanish on the job. It said that the firings violated the law because the English-only policy was not “relevant” to job performance or safety.

Fund has more details about the testy exchange I mentioned last week:

Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, a moderate from Maryland, was beside himself. Congressional Quarterly reports that he jabbed his finger on the House floor at Joe Baca, the California Democrat who chairs the Hispanic Caucus, and yelled, “How dare you destroy this party? This will be the worst loss in 10 years.”

Mr. Baca was having none of it. “You see this on the [voting] board?,” he yelled back. “This is against me. This is against me personally.” Luckily for Democrats, C-Span’s microphones did not pick up the exchange. But it was audible to reporters in the press gallery. They also heard Rep. Luis Gutierrez of Illinois say that English-only efforts were symbolic of “bigotry and prejudice” against those who speak other languages.

After testy negotiations, the Hispanic Caucus finally agreed to let the tax bill proceed after extracting a promise from Ms. Pelosi that the House will not vote on the bill funding the Justice and Commerce Departments unless the English-only protection language is dropped. “There ain’t going to be a bill” with the Alexander language, Mr. Baca has told reporters.

Sen. Alexander says that if that’s the case, “thousands of small businesses across America will have to show there is some special reason to justify requiring their employees to speak our country’s common language on the job.” He notes that the number of EEOC actions against English-only policies grew to some 200 last year from 32 a decade ago. In an attempt at compromise, he has offered watered-down language that would still allow the EEOC to file many actions, but he says House Democrats rejected it.

Overlawyered has background on the case.

Before partisans get too carried away lambasting Democrats for these overzealous language lawsuits, I would point out to you, as I have before, that the Bush Justice Department has gone after localities and forced them to provide foreign language materials. In 2004, the Bush administration ordered Harris County, Texas, to provide all voter registration and election information and supplies, including the voting machine ballot, in Vietnamese as well as English and Spanish. So absurd is the drive to protect the rights of “minority-language citizens” that the little town of Briny Breezes, Fla., was required to publish election notices in Spanish — even though everyone there speaks English.

Foreign-language idiocy, in other words, is a bipartisan problem.

***

Commenter madchef: “All politicians are bilingual, they speak out of both sides of their mouths.”

Posted in: Open Borders Lobby

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Comments

  1. #1
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:33 pm, Brian72 said:

    Sacre Bleu!

  2. #2
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:38 pm, uhangtight said:

    to vote legally, you must be a naturalized citizen; and to become a naturalized citizen you must learn to speak and read english. so, what am i missing here?

    this enables illegals to vote. Yes, this is a big problem here, especially, in Southern California. this has got to stop and a push for English only must be made.

    OT, just heard on talk radio, that when you are seeking tech assistance if you select spanish.. you get an american citizen not someone in india. i guess they haven’t learned spanish yet there…pathetic!!!

  3. #3
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:44 pm, right_on said:

    What is so darn difficult to establish English as the “official” language of the United States? I think it is pretty simple, actually.

    What language is used to write the Constitution of the United States? The liberals in this country always want to decipher what our fore-fathers intended, so, explain why they didn’t write our historical documents in Spanish, or any other language?

    Of course, I guess we could make everyone happy, and just use Latin…E pluribus unim, indeed!

  4. #4
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:44 pm, feebiebabe said:

    #3 - on top of that I am not understanding the Drivers License bit. How can you adhere to safety and vehicle laws if you don’t speak English? All signs (as of yet) are all in English???

    My family not only had to read and speak english but they had to take a history test in English to complete their naturalization to the US as citizens. Yep, a BASIC HISTORY test.

    Republican or Democrat…. “you can’t fix stupid”….Ron White

  5. #5
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:48 pm, madchef said:

    All politicians are bilingual, they speak out of both sides of their mouths.
    If any of them ever ran a small business they would understand how stupid laws like these are.

  6. #6
    On November 19th, 2007 at 2:57 pm, bear1909 said:

    Pelosi Galore and the Open Borders Cabal are part of the agenda to take down the sovereignty of the United States.

    They are globalists who want a North American trading block with the implications for the American Republic be damned.

    Someone on this forum said the other day that Pelosi Galore was a reprehensible politician but he was unaware of her personal qualities.

    Well, i think Pelosi’s treasonous behavior on the border issue and on the Middle East pretty much make her a Benedict Arnold as she weakens the country’s foundation.

    What kind of a person does that? Her end as the Speaker will be bitter.

  7. #7
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pm, hatelibs said:

    Why in the world are the Republicans afraid of this? It is a guaranteed winner as an election issue unless your district has a huge hispanic population in which case you have no prayer to begin with.

    This country has had it with this crap and is dying to support any candidate who fights against the illegals and anything like this particular situation that will tear apart out the basic fabric of the United States. What ever happened to common sense???

  8. #8
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:01 pm, right_on said:

    #4-

    Anyone who, over the age of 55 in this country, had to do the same thing going through our public school system. We were taught the history of the US, English, and the Bill of Rights.

    Unfortunately, there are so many liberals in this country that are ashamed, and guilty that they live in such a wonderful country, that they have infused themselves into our media, politics, and school systems, in order to destroy what has made this country great.

    Maybe it is their way to under-handedly destroy this country’s magnetism…?

  9. #9
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:04 pm, hatelibs said:

    Just imagine the growing popluation of retired seniors being required to learn Spanish in order to function….ain’t gonna happen.

  10. #10
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:06 pm, MNUSMCDavid said:

    I wear a shirt that says on the back ” Welcome to America, now speak English”… it certainly gathers a lot of attention, but rarely will my attackers ever speak English clearly enough for me to understand their angst.

  11. #11
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pm, RaisedRight said:

    The EEOC claimed the store had fired two Hispanic employees for continuing to speak Spanish on the job. It said that the firings violated the law because the English-only policy was not “relevant” to job performance or safety.

    This I just don’t understand. I don’t know what job these employees held, but if they were the only two not speaking English, doesn’t that affect job performance?

    If a person speaks a different language than the other employees (and, in the case of retail, the customers) then that would affect job performance. If it does affect job performance, then it’s not the blind, anti-Hispanic discrimination that Baca and Gutierrez claim it to be, right?

  12. #12
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pm, feebiebabe said:

    Look, I understand if you come to America you won’t IMMEDIATLY be able to get the language down…but really, lets stop being enablers.

    How many other countries out there would put english on their country’s ballot if this was reveresed? They wouldn’t.

    What confuses the heck out of me, with ALL the spanish/italian speakers I was raised with…they are the MOST vehement about use of the English Language in public and as our national language here in the US?

    I really couldn’t tell you why that is…but one of my aunts (from Italy) if she heard ANYONE speaking another language on the bus here in SF (this was during the 80s when she was alive) she use to turn around and scream “SPEAK ENGLISH!” on the bus. She was a hoot. Pint sizer lil’ fiesty one. She was 84 years old…”SPEAK ENGLISH”. Cracks me up.

  13. #13
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:12 pm, publiuswarmac9999 said:

    When liberals are in charge, this is what you get. These people live in a fantasy world that is about as destructive as anyone can imagine. Yet they view the fantasy as wonderful. Must be a long term effect of LSD, marijuana, cocaince, et al.

  14. #14
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:13 pm, Boomer said:

    I have traveled all over the globe during my time in the Military. The one language I have learned the best (not saying much there) was Russian when working as a US National Escort for INF & START treaties. With all the traveling I did I had phrase books in Japanese, Korean, Spanish, Germany, Italian, Norwegian, and Arabic to allow me to somehow function in the country I was a guest in. I butchered their languages horribly, but tried to shop, provide myself meals, and beverages (usually of an alcoholic nature) by trying to use their language. It was well received by the locals and they were very helpful. What the hell is so hard about speaking this countries native language established by our founding fathers? After all it is only good manners. You think this would be a slam dunk, but thanks to the political party that lives up to its mascot (a jackass) what new outrage will they come up with.

  15. #15
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:14 pm, right_on said:

    #7-

    It is a guaranteed winner as an election issue unless your district has a huge hispanic population in which case you have no prayer to begin with.

    I live in California…HELP!!!

  16. #16
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:15 pm, IdiotCroissant said:

    The EEOC claimed the store had fired two Hispanic employees for continuing to speak Spanish on the job. It said that the firings violated the law because the English-only policy was not “relevant” to job performance or safety.

    It sounds to me like the defense didn’t know what they were doing and failed to tailor their brief towards the EEOC’s position. Or, the EEOC was absolutely correct in their ruling, and speaking Spanish (or Pig Latin for that matter) didn’t alter the employee’s performance at that particular job.

    Personally, I think you will see more and more employers protecting themselves with probationary period employment (for the first few months for new employees).

    As long as an employer has detailed performance policies in effect, and does a non-bias employee evaluation (on all employees after a defined period of time), there should be no problem whatsoever in terminating an employee that does not produce. And, if the use of English in the workplace effects production, the employer has every right to show that employee the door.

    The important issue is that all employees must be subject to the probationary evaluation, and therefore in accordance with the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution.

    Wake me up when the EEOC and the Dems. think I should provide “reasonable accomodation” to non-English speaking employees, and either send them to school, or adjust my business to their needs. Then, I’ll be concerned.

    Incidentally, when is the EEOC going to require employers to raise the door jams for tall people like me who keep hitting our heads? I have a numb spot on my forehead. Such blatant discrimination is unforgivable.
    :D

  17. #17
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:16 pm, right_on said:

    Must be a long term effect of LSD…

    Liberal Social Decay

  18. #18
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:19 pm, Boomer said:

    right_on you would be very surprised to hear the amount of Spanish spoken in our part of Idaho. After all we are mostly an agricultural area outside of the local Air Force Base.

  19. #19
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:33 pm, right_on said:

    Boomer-

    I would not be surprised. During my last visit to Utah two years ago, I was taken by the enormous growth of Mexican workers in just about every retail market I visited there. It isn’t just in agro-work, and fast foood joints anymore. The same thing is happening here in Northern California where I live.

  20. #20
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:33 pm, hatelibs said:

    Right On

    I should have included districts loaded with liberals….although the invasion of illegals angle should play well in California. Hey, I live in New Jersey so I feel your pain.

    Regardless, on a national level this issue is a winner. And in the so-called purple districts, it WILL win hands down. Just look at what happened in Herndon VA when the city council tried to build a “job center” for immigrants. They were swiftly ejected from office. A lot of people are hesitant to speak out in public for fear of the typical PC slander but in the voting booth they will speak very loudly.

  21. #21
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:38 pm, fred5676 said:

    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:10 pm, feebiebabe said:
    ….
    What confuses the heck out of me, with ALL the spanish/italian speakers I was raised with…they are the MOST vehement about use of the English Language in public and as our national language here in the US?
    …..

    Exactly!

    My mother told me often that her father, who immigrated from Sweden at age 13, would not allow Swedish to be spoken in their home. “This is America. Speak English.” At age 50, she went to adult school to learn a little Swedish.

  22. #22
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:39 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    I was 7 going on 8 when I came to this country in June 1970. I had ONE SUMMER to learn English and enter the 3rd grade. I did that with the help of friends, TV, books, etc. Of course with the help of my 3rd grade teacher, who was very encouraging (not coddling), I got better and better with reading and comprehension. I wanted nothing more than to be an American. The melting pot was talked about all the time, as that’s what made America great.

    It was very easy for me to learn the language, and I successfully completed grade school, middle and high school and graduated at the age of 17 and went onto college.

    Now…WHY is it so difficult for those who come to this country, even at a much younger age than I did, to learn the language that is spoken here? If I did it, anyone can do it.

  23. #23
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:46 pm, RaisedRight said:

    fred5676 (#21)

    Same story with my family. My great grandfather came from Austria (on the last voyage of the Lusitania) and was adamant about raising his family as Americans. My grandfather knows some German, but not much. His father even Americanized the pronunciation of the family name.

    The only reason my father knows any German is because he made an effort to learn some before visiting Austria a few years ago for a family reunion. (Even though it was just a visit, he took the effort to learn their language and would never have gone there assuming that all the people and businesses would bend over backwards trying to accommodate him and his language.)

  24. #24
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:47 pm, right_on said:

    Now…WHY is it so difficult for those who come to this country, even at a much younger age than I did, to learn the language that is spoken here? If I did it, anyone can do it.

    That’s an easy one to answer…because the lib’s do everything in their power to insure that anyone can get access to the public coffers. Why learn English (it’s work), when you can get public assistance, licenses, and any other number of amenities, and still speak your historical language?

  25. #25
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:52 pm, BOB said:

    I guess it’s OK to not hire someone because they aren’t bi-lingual. Happens all the time.

  26. #26
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:53 pm, and Im all out of bubblegum said:

    This is all a bit frustrating..I saw a show (on Discovery, or maybe TLC) about a set of conjoined twin girls, joined at the head in a difficult dominant/submissive position. Irrelevant, but the interesting point is that their family was from Russia (living in Italy) and the father stayed behind with another sister while the mother, who initially spoke no English, came to Dallas to get treatment for the twins. During the program, filmed 12-18 months after they arrived in the US, the mother had by then learned (through watching TV) to speak very good English - better than most “service providers” I deal with on a daily basis - even little Americanized sayings and inflections. Very impressive, and she made nothing of it - she justed wanted to be able to communicate with the physicians better and be able to function more easily. Why can’t everyone do that, and why do we continue to coddle and pamper those who don’t?

  27. #27
    On November 19th, 2007 at 3:57 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    There ain’t going to be a bill”…

    And of course, proper English would help.

    Hey, if you can read English, you can find out that Pelosi and her family want your tax money to fix up the SF waterfront, thereby increasing the value of their Real Estate. “Gotta” keep them ignorant.

  28. #28
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:00 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    Why can’t everyone do that, and why do we continue to coddle and pamper those who don’t?

    Don’t know what the big stink is in learning English. My sister-in-law who came here from Colombia 10 years ago hardly knew English, but she spent time and energy going to school to learn English. She finally became a naturalized citizen last year and speaks English very well. Yes folks, she did it the legal way, becoming a citizen.

    In fact, when I entered junior high, I ended up taking French as yet another language! Kept that up for another 7 years.

    How things have changed. Asking someone to learn ONE language is bad enough. I guess when I was in public school back in the 70s, teachers weren’t consumed about my self-esteem as much as they were consumed about having me learn reading, writing and arithmetic!

  29. #29
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:00 pm, RaisedRight said:

    BlameAmericaLast (#22)

    Good for you. It wasn’t traumatic and it didn’t hold you back, right?

    The melting pot of America always seemed wonderful to me. Yet, when I was in school (maybe around 5th grade - it’s amazing how quickly it all runs together) we were told that the concept of the melting pot was horrible because it tried to homogenize everyone and discouraged individuality. Instead, we were taught, the ideal America is a tossed salad, where all the individuals are mixed together, yet retain their own cultural identities.

    Even in junior high that didn’t sit right with me. Why do the concepts of individuality and the melting pot have to be mutually exclusive? Does assimilation mean that one’s culture is entirely lost? My family still held onto the culture in many ways without speaking the language. Mainly in food (food is a big part of our family), but my grandfather’s German heritage was also evident in moral traditions, religious traditions, the family unit and many other aspects.

  30. #30
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:25 pm, et said:

    Lets be 100% politically correct and allow any and every language on the floor of congress. We’ll see how our congress critters and there staffs like wearing U.N. style headphones to conduct their business. Can we encourage lawsuits in every district because the representative or senator doesn’t speak the constituents language.

    Bottom line question. What language is the Federal Register published in? I think we have an answer to what is our official language.

  31. #31
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:35 pm, conservativesRus said:

    I’ve had the privilege a couple of times to be posted overseas in the corporate world. So living in a foreign country, I had two choices, learn the local language or get a translator. Never once did I expect my host country to bend/bow to my lack of skill in the local language. It was nice if they provided things in English, but I certainly had no right to demand it.
    Of course, being a conservative, I figured it was my responsibility - not somebody else’s.

  32. #32
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:39 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    Good for you. It wasn’t traumatic and it didn’t hold you back, right?

    It really wasn’t traumatic to learn the English language and try to fit in as much as possible. I’m not saying it’s a simple thing to do, but it was absolutely necessary. Yes, I did encounter mean kids who made fun of my accent at the time (which I lost along the way). However, the teachers made it clear that everyone was there to learn and not judge people. Over time, most kids got over the “foreign kid in the class” issue, and I had some very good friends in grade school.

    I did also hang onto my heritage (cultural events, camps, food, parties, etc.), and my parents spoke to me in both languages while I was growing up so I didn’t forget my native tongue. I didn’t give preference over which language was spoken to me because I had become comfortable with both at that point in life. That’s true bilingualism.

    When you’re young, it’s very easy to learn a language. If you don’t learn early on, you’ll pay for it dearly later in life.

  33. #33
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:41 pm, puhiawa said:

    Absurd. And of course Bush is in league with The Dems. His Justice Department has continually sided with illegal immigrants to the detriment of Americans.

  34. #34
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:41 pm, katieanne said:

    Imagine, the nerve of an employer requiring employees to speak the language of the customers. Can you believe it?

    Assimulate. If you live here, work here, learn the language, ENGLISH. This really ticks me off.

  35. #35
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:52 pm, BlameAmericaLast said:

    My official answer about this topic (learning English in America) is always this:

    If I did it, why can’t you?

    And you know what? They can’t answer that question.

  36. #36
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:53 pm, walterc said:

    Raisedright Said: Why do the concepts of individuality and the melting pot have to be mutually exclusive? Does assimilation mean that one’s culture is entirely lost? My family still held onto the culture in many ways without speaking the language. Mainly in food (food is a big part of our family), but my grandfather’s German heritage was also evident in moral traditions, religious traditions, the family unit and many other aspects.

    As did my family. My mother’s parent immegrated here from Holland in 1928 (she was 15 he was 17 and newly weds), spoke only English in their home(after learning the language of course). And my fathers side was from Scotland from a few generations before him. So on Christmas we would put our wooden shoes out by the fireplace for Sinterklauss hung our stockings on the fireplace for Santa. In the summer we attend the Highland games, and I have a cousin that plays the bagpipes.

    After each generation comes along, we are less of our European ancestry and more American. And our culture is American, not Dutch, not Sottish, American. Our heritage is Dutch and Scot, but our culture is American.

    The only reason someone would want to hold onto their culture as opposed to celebrating ancesteral traditions, is becasue they don’t want to be Americans. Otherwise they assimilate into American society and become Americans.

    If you don’t want to become American in every way, go home. If you do, then welcome, how can I help make your assimilation easier?

    Sorry for the rant.

  37. #37
    On November 19th, 2007 at 4:55 pm, conservativesRus said:

    IdiotCroissant #16…to be honest with you - I disagree. Why can’t an employer just hire whoever they want to. The employee is allowed to just go to work for whoever they want to. To me it seems like a bit of a one way street. I would contend that employee protection laws in fact have the opposite effect. They make the potential employer spend resources not doing really productive work, instead making sure their butt is covered if things don’t go well.
    Any employer who doesn’t hire the best, brightest, most productive (for the money expended) is hurting their own pocketbook - which as far as I’m concerned, is their own choice. It should not be up to government to tell somebody how to run their business, how to treat their employees, or who to sell to.

  38. #38
    On November 19th, 2007 at 5:18 pm, Gothguy said:

    An employer has the absolute right to hire the best employees that will make the employer a profit, and increase business…it is as simple as that. The employer is the one paying the wages and benefits for the employee, and if the employer is demanding that his or her employees speak English during the course of business, the government has no right to interfere. And before you trolls drone on about discriminatory business practices…spare me. I am writing about the ability to carry on day to day business, in English.

    This is not an issue that belongs in the realm of the EEOC. If I cannot understand an employee of a business, I will take my elsewhere. Simple.

  39. #39
    On November 19th, 2007 at 5:19 pm, Gothguy said:

    oops…

    “…I will take my ‘business’ elsewhere…’

  40. #40
    On November 19th, 2007 at 5:27 pm, leepro said:

    It said that the firings violated the law because the English-only policy was not “relevant” to job performance or safety.

    Not relevant?

    Clerk to customer: “May I help you?”
    Customer on phone: “What time do you close?”
    Boss to clerk: “You can take your lunch break now.”
    In case of fire: “There’s a fire in the storeroom. Leave the building now!”
    Armed robber: “Gimme the money now or I’ll kill you!”

    BANG!

    Not relevant.

    :mad:

  41. #41
    On November 19th, 2007 at 5:44 pm, blues said:

    If I ever decide to move to Mexico,I’ll learn to speak
    Mexican.When immigants come here they should learn to speak {American}English.There are very good reasons that English became the Universal language that have nothing to do with race or national origin.English is the language of technology,because of the precise nature of word definitions,and usage;it is the least ambiguous language known,which makes it the most effective language to use in most circumstances.While it may not be easy as some other languages,it is the most precise.

  42. #42
    On November 19th, 2007 at 6:01 pm, DesertLover said:

    Esto es estúpido y ridículo

    C’est stupide et ridicule

    Dieses ist dumm und lächerlich

    Ciò è stupida e irrisoria

    Это тупоумно и смешоно

    Detta är dumt och löjligt

    Αυτό είναι ηλίθιο και γελοίο

    For all my fellow posters that don’t read and understand (from top) Spanish, French, German, Italian, Russian, Swedish or Greek … I said …

    This is stupid and ridiculous …

  43. #43
    On November 19th, 2007 at 6:12 pm, gayle said:

    Ironic; I have NEVER been to a Mexican restaurant where any Caucasian/Black was employed.

    They speak broken English, but I have to learn to communicate.

    Until CONGRESS makes them hire whitees/blacks/others, then forget about it.

  44. #44
    On November 19th, 2007 at 6:46 pm, TXRose said:

    I have t agree with Gayle. The only time I see someone
    other than Mexicans employed by Mexican Restaurants, is if it is a white married to a member of
    the owners family. Never any other ethnicity in authentic Mexican restaurants. Now the chains are
    different. Don Pablos doesn’t limit themselves.

  45. #45
    On November 19th, 2007 at 6:51 pm, feebiebabe said:

    #43,#44 - I understand your point, but you are going to see that a lot with any ethnic food (mom and pop)restaurant. Indian food, Indian owened, Italian Food, Italian owned..etc. Great b-fast stop on the way to so. lake tahoe. Man born and raised in Tennessee. Runs a small cafe - great southern breakfasts…son and family work there…

    Only times you see it differ is with the larger chains…IMHO (e.g. PF Chengs, Il Fornaio etc.).

    Just sayin’

  46. #46
    On November 19th, 2007 at 7:06 pm, Mark Jaquith said:

    John Fund is misrepresenting the facts.

    This is not about the ability to speak English or mandating that you use English when dealing with English-speaking customers. This is about prohibiting the utterance of non-English. i.e. Jose and Juan clock in for work. Jose sees Juan and says “Hey Juan! Que pasa?” And he’s fired for it.

    The reason people want this overturned is that it can be used to discriminate against ethnicity or national origin.

    A lot of you may still be in favor of it, but the vast majority above me are talking about how business should be allowed to require that all employees be able to speak fluent English. (Note all comments talking about learning English). That’s not being challenged by this legislation. This is about the ability of a business to prohibit (for a non-safety-related reason) the utterance of non-English words while on the job.

    Note that this also applies to dead languages… so you business types need to stay away from “veni, vidi, vici”-type stuff.

  47. #47
    On November 19th, 2007 at 7:22 pm, conservativesRus said:

    Mark #46. If the business wants to make the people wear their hair in blue mohawks…that should be the prerogative of the business. It is not a function of the government to decide who, what, when where concerning employees.
    The gov’t already expects the employer to a) do it’s job checking immigration status, and b) collect taxes on behalf of the government. Of course, neither of these does the government reimburse the employer.

  48. #48
    On November 19th, 2007 at 8:23 pm, Gothguy said:

    Mark,

    That is the most asinine argument against this argument I have seen in a long time.

    This is NOT an argument about Jose and Juan (racist innuendo there Mark!) say ‘Que pasa?’ at the work place, but rather the employer’s ability to hire the most qualified person to hold the job.

    It may surprise you, Mark, but as an employer, it is incumbent upon me to hire people that can communicate to my clients in a manner they can understand.

    This is not an issue about ‘dead languages’ (false argument…nice try, Mark) or prohibiting some one from speaking another language during breaks or before/after work (again, nice try), but it is about having the ability to articulate, in English.

  49. #49
    On November 19th, 2007 at 10:12 pm, behiker said:

    I stopped by Lowe’s about a week ago and noticed that all signs in it have recently been changed to English and Spanish. Not just the “enter” and “exit” signs, but all aisle signs, sale signs, etc. Why? It disgusted me so that I intend to frequent Home Depot more often. Who is driving these changes? It made me think of when I lived in Canada for a couple of years because of my work. Because Canada has both English and French as the official language, all government publications must be printed in each. Think about it… double the amount of paper. Seems like something environmentalists would not be keen to wish for. It’s time to make English the official language of the United States.

  50. #50
    On November 19th, 2007 at 11:31 pm, Alphonse said:

    On November 19th, 2007 at 6:12 pm, gayle said: Ironic; I have NEVER been to a Mexican restaurant where any Caucasian/Black was employed.

    Why go to a Mexican restaurant? Wishy- washy will only encourage more to come.

  51. #51
    On November 20th, 2007 at 12:01 am, bridget said:

    Two things–
    First of all, if the employees can speak English and Spanish, it is RUDE to speak Spanish in front of the English only speakers–particularly in front of the boss.
    Secondly, Home Depot probably worse than Lowes. I was shopping there one day, and was in the store for about an hour and all the announcements were in Spanish ONLY. No English was used at all. I complained to the manager, who spoke with a heavy accent and laughed at me and said something in Spanish. I wrote to the corporate headquarters informing them that English speaking shoppers were being discriminated against in their store. I was told they were interested in embracing all cultures. I then suggested they make their announcements in English as well as Spanish, and asked why they weren’t making announcements in Korean, Chinese and Japanese, as the only shoppers in the store were white or asian. She told me that I was racist and she was just fine with the idea of not having my business. I don’t shop there anymore, and I’ve since heard from a number of friends that they refuse to shop there for the same reason. Now we know why Home Depot has posted such a loss this past quarter. Do they understand it yet?

  52. #52
    On November 20th, 2007 at 7:37 am, DesertLover said:

    One more comment folks … this is not a Spanish-English problem … it is the same problem for any non-English speaking employment situation regardless of the language involved … I have been to a lot of ethnic restaurants where you literally had to point to the English side of the menu to order because of a lack of language skills by the wait staff …

    just want to make sure people realize this is not confined to Spanish or any other single language

  53. #53
    On November 20th, 2007 at 8:29 am, Hannibal said:

    Mark Jaquith #46
    What a crock! Have you ever even been in a Salvation Army store or understand who they are or what they do? They help people, both customers and employees. Do you really think the supervisor of the Thrift Shop fires anyone for saying “hola” in the morning?

  54. #54
    On November 20th, 2007 at 10:17 am, gayle said:

    Since all the Mexican restaurants in my county only hire Hispanics, you would think they’d want employees that can speak and understand English fluently.

    Not the case.

    I am not talking about chain restaurants either. There are none in this area, ethnically that is….

    Most customers are English…rarely do I see hispanics…..double standard?

    Wonder how many are illegals?

    I have even heard stories that some employees spit on food before serving…..could be untrue, but I wouldn’t be surprised.

    Just seems that all the politicans pander to the hispanics, illegal or otherwise, and I am sick of it.

    Yes, I do not have to eat at those establishments, but I think the owners have to be legal…..BIG difference.
    If I could prove they are hiring illegals, I wouldn’t eat there for certain.

  55. #55
    On November 20th, 2007 at 10:57 am, Mark Jaquith said:

    This is NOT an argument about Jose and Juan (racist innuendo there Mark!) say ‘Que pasa?’ at the work place, but rather the employer’s ability to hire the most qualified person to hold the job.

    Jose and Juan are common Hispanic names. Deal with it.

    Just because you don’t understand the issue and are arguing about something completely different, that doesn’t change the facts.

    It may surprise you, Mark, but as an employer, it is incumbent upon me to hire people that can communicate to my clients in a manner they can understand.

    It doesn’t surprise me. As I said before that’s not what this is about. You have every right to require that your employees be capable of communicating with your clients in a manner they can understand (and that includes your right to hire someone who speaks fluent Spanish, to interface with your Spanish-speaking customers). What this issue is about is your ability as an employer to ban the use of a non-English language for a non-safety-related reason.

    Do you really think the supervisor of the Thrift Shop fires anyone for saying “hola” in the morning?

    The could, if you get your way. Pay attention.

  56. #56
    On November 20th, 2007 at 11:35 am, LaVentanita said:

    I’m kind of with Mark 46 on this one.

    One thing is that they are required to be fluent in English so they can perform their jobs, follow directions and interact with English speaking customers.

    The EEOC claimed the store had fired two Hispanic employees for continuing to speak Spanish on the job.

    However, from Michelle’s post it’s not clear to whom and when they were speaking Spanish on the job. Maybe they were holding a conversation with each other while on the floor and waiting for customers.
    Maybe not. But you cannot fire someone who is fully bilingual just because they spoke in Spanish to another Hispanic.

    I favor 100% all immigrants having to learn English; but requiring English on the job should only apply to task related functions - not to casual conversations between employees.

    On the job needs to be clearly defined; will I get fired for talking to my mother on the phone if I speak to her in Spanish? What if a Spanish speaking customer comes in?

    Does anyone know exactly what these two employes were saying and if they in fact had failed to learn English?

  57. #57
    On November 20th, 2007 at 12:22 pm, thirteen28 said:

    Does anyone know exactly what these two employes were saying and if they in fact had failed to learn English?

    According to what has been reported, the it was clearly posted that the employees were required to learn English, and after a year, had failed to do so.

  58. #58
    On November 20th, 2007 at 6:35 pm, LaVentanita said:

    Thirteen28,

    What has been reported is:

    The requirement was clearly posted and employees were given a year to learn the language. The EEOC claimed the store had fired two Hispanic employees for continuing to speak Spanish on the job.

    That does not tell me they had failed to learn English. That only tells me they were speaking Spanish, at best to each other - who else would they be speaking Spanish to? Just because two Hispanics speak Spanish to each other does not mean they don’t speak English.

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