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Comments

1. #180223
   On November 26th, 2007 at 11:40 pm, Buck I said:

   BUT, I can’t ignore the fact with all things being equal that Islam is the more abusive, oppressive, intolerant, and violent religion HANDS DOWN. Christianity and Islam in that respect are incomparable.

   Yeah, I’ll completely agree with that statement, based on how it’s being “practiced” by some really bad people. I do agree, but I think it’s the bad people, and not simply Islam itself. Many good muslims are repulsed by jihadists.

2. #180225
   On November 26th, 2007 at 11:45 pm, 29Victor said:

   Any god who needs a group of crazy men to protect him from a teacher, a teady bear and a classroom full of kids is a sissy.

   Oh, and getting offended by someone telling you that you need to accept Jesus or Allah or whomever to keep from burning in Hell is like getting offended by someone telling you that you should eat right and exercise to keep from dying young. To equate it in any way to an Islamonazi telling you to “submit or die” is, well, the kind of overreaction and intollerance that has led to so many Christians getting killed over the last century by people offended by their teaching.

   And to bring up the canard of The Crusades as a way to draw some moral equivalence between the Christian Church and past and present Islam may work with your friends and neighbours, but is wasted typing here. Nope, here, where people know their history a little better than your average bear, it just reminds us why the Church felt it was necessary to fight The Crusades in the first place.

3. #180229
   On November 26th, 2007 at 11:49 pm, 29Victor said:

   And why is that I only hear non-Muslims telling my how much Muslims hate jihadists? Whenever I hear Muslims speak, either on TV or in person, I hear them decrying “terrorists.” But, when push comes to shove their definition of “terrorists” usually includes Jews and/or Bush but rarely jihadists (except for one very dear Muslim friend of mine who thinks that jihadists should be taken out an shot). And then they usually bring up The Crusades or something goofy like that.

4. #180232
   On November 27th, 2007 at 12:04 am, Buck I said:

   And why is that I only hear non-Muslims telling my how much Muslims hate jihadists? Whenever I hear Muslims speak, either on TV or in person, I hear them decrying “terrorists.” But, when push comes to shove their definition of “terrorists” usually includes Jews and/or Bush but rarely jihadists (except for one very dear Muslim friend of mine who thinks that jihadists should be taken out an shot). And then they usually bring up The Crusades or something goofy like that.

   If you care enough, and don’t know any Muslims personally, broaden your social circle or visit a mosque.

   And to bring up the canard of The Crusades as a way to draw some moral equivalence between the Christian Church and past and present Islam may work with your friends and neighbours, but is wasted typing here. Nope, here, where people know their history a little better than your average bear, it just reminds us why the Church felt it was necessary to fight The Crusades in the first place.

   Lastly, I don’t believe I have
   equated anything about Christianity and Islam, or compared any moral equivalence

   Islam, can also be used as a tool of coercion, hatred, and murder. The same can be said of Christianity, and other organized religions. It’s been that way for thousand of years, dating back to and before the crusades.

   Obviously, I’m not blaming Christians as bearing all resposibility for the crusades. You gotta read it first, man.

5. #180233
   On November 27th, 2007 at 12:06 am, Buck I said:

   Gotta go to bed, and listen to Sportscenter now, I’ll check back in tomorrow after 10 or so. later.

6. #180243
   On November 27th, 2007 at 12:42 am, 29Victor said:

   Got Muslim friends and had Muslim co-workers before, durring and after 9/11 but thanks for the tip. So, if someone commits mind-numbingly horrible attrocities in the name of a major world religion I should have to go to their place of worship to hear members of that religion denounce the attrocities? That’s funny whenever anyone does anything illegal or evil in the name of Christianity I hear Christian leaders and lay-people denouncing it at every possible opportunity. On TV, in newspapers, on the Internet…

   The same can be said of Chritianity, and other organized religions. It’s been that way for thousand of years, dating back to and before the crusades.

   I never said that you were “blaming Christians as bearing all responsibility for the crusades,” man, I said that you were drawing a moral equivalency, isn’t that what “the same can be said of Christianity” means?
   And, uh, so, man, what was your point in bringing up The Crusades in the first place? You gotta think before you type, dude.

   But you are right, there are evil people that will abuse any religion, or any other ideology for that matter and it’s not (necessarally) the fault of that ideology. But, I would say that Islam has been violent and oppressive since it’s inception and that that was, indeed, the intention and example of it’s founder. Christianity, on the other hand, was founded by someone who preached peace and love and those that have used it to kill and oppress have obviously bastardized His teachings.

   And may I remind you that your first comment here was

   Thanks for reminding me about the type of thinking that will keep me from ever becoming a Christian.

   So you obviously have same problem as the rest of us here distinguishing the words and actions of a religion’s followers from the religion itself. Unless, of course, you meant “theology” or “eschatology” instead of “thinking.”

7. #180266
   On November 27th, 2007 at 2:14 am, RetFireman said:

   However, characters like these in the Sudan, are simply extremists, and one shouldn’t degrade the entire Muslim religion based on the actions of some radicals.

   Based on the actions of some radicals? I am getting really tired of this lame excuse. It is a lame excuse in that it is constantly used to excuse the repreated killings and maimings that are being done on an ever increasing basis in the name if Islam. Not just killings and maimings, but entire countries, sities, towns, counties, schools, offices etc., being held “hostage” over what they can say or do, what type of dress codes they can have, how they can function etc. It is being held hostage over what type of holidays they can celebrate and how, what type of swimming pools they can have and who can attend them and when. It is about what kind of comic strips can be drawn and who can read them and where and when they can be shown. What kind of television shows can be shown and what names now can be used on those television shows.

   It is these few, this “minority” that you and other Liberals speak of, that is holding this country and others hostage over so many things now wit a very real threat of violence. It is do as they say or else they will riot, burn, destroy, kill, maim, etc. It is happening in Denmark, it is happening in France, it is happening in Spain and it is happening in England. When these minority groups are not appeased, or their delicate sensibilities are bruised, they are there, screaming about killing those that insult Islam, insult the koran, touch the koran, kill the pope, that the next 9-11 is coming, that the only real religion is Islam etc. They are out there in the THOUSANDS. They are in the streets in Sudan, in Libya, in Palestine, in Iran, in Afghanistan, in Syria, and in every other Islamic country as well as countries that are NOT Islamic.

   So stop with this lie that it is such a small minority that is doing this. These are the people that are leading these countries. These are the Shri’ah courts that are running it. These are their leaders. These are what they are calling for, begging for. This is what they want to have in England, in France, in Denmark and yes, what they have listed as a condition for ending the war against the United States. You and other Liberals who constantly keep perpetrating the lie of the “Minority of Muslims” only help to make things worse by not telling the truth of what is really going on in the Global jihad and Global Intifada. It means you are either a complicit Dhimmi or completely and totally ignorant and bought and sold on the Liberal BS line.

   As for your crap towards the Christianity posts, you post about one person who stated something where you claim that he is the reason you will never become a Christian, then in your next post, you past the drivel about not making an opinion based on a minority. That was incredibly hypocritical. It was one person’s belief, and you used it to form an opinion, then spun it around to cover your butt in true Liberal fashion. You even went so far as to fake being “offended” by the threat of being told that the Bible states that if you do not accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior that you will burn in Hell, as if it is anyone’s fault. Sorry if you don’t like it bub, but that’s what the Bible says.

   However, your indignation and offense is fake. If you do not believe, then you cannot be offended. It is only those that do believe in a Hell that should worry. If, in fact, you do believe in Hell, then I would think you would also believe in a Heaven and in such, would be working towards the goal of making sure to do what it took to make sure you were to go there after you left this existence. The guide to getting there is in the Bible. Therefore, you would either be following the Old Testament, placing you as Jewish, or the New Testament placing you as Christian, which would have you accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour thereby guaranteeing you a place in Heaven so long as you followed His teachings.

   So, what is it? You can’t have it both ways. You are playing in the wrong sandbox to try and pull the Liberal double-speak Jr. Your indignation is falling pretty flat. Maybe you should seek out Dem Underground to to have someone lick your wounds for you since you are so wounded by the thought of burning in a Hell of which you don”t believe in.

   Trip trap trip trap.

8. #180301
   On November 27th, 2007 at 6:08 am, graysonret said:

   Where are the feminists in all this? Since it doesn’t promote their far left agenda, it is ignored.

9. #180336
   On November 27th, 2007 at 8:13 am, derel3433 said:

   I’ve always thought of Michelle as “Our Lady of Perpetual Outrage,” but never with a negative connotation.

10. #180337
    On November 27th, 2007 at 8:15 am, Chief RZ said:

    RetFireman. Thanks for the logical response. Unfortunately, these radical islamics are irrational, just like those in the USA in the 60s were, and still are.
    One individual jumped over the counter at a local fast food place here, broke over 100 plates because he thought that someone at the restaurant was not served quickly enough. The “offended couple” left.

11. #180346
    On November 27th, 2007 at 8:46 am, gunslingerpatriot said:

    retfireman#97
    Excellant rebuttal and its obvious that you have mastered the art of the skilled debate.

    Retfireman 1 BuckI 0

    GSP

12. #180430
    On November 27th, 2007 at 10:36 am, Buck I said:

    Retfireman is at it again huh?

    However, your indignation and offense is fake. If you do not believe, then you cannot be offended. It is only those that do believe in a Hell that should worry. If, in fact, you do believe in Hell, then I would think you would also believe in a Heaven and in such, would be working towards the goal of making sure to do what it took to make sure you were to go there after you left this existence. The guide to getting there is in the Bible. Therefore, you would either be following the Old Testament, placing you as Jewish, or the New Testament placing you as Christian, which would have you accepting Jesus as your Lord and Saviour thereby guaranteeing you a place in Heaven so long as you followed His teachings

    I see your idea of what it takes to get into “heaven”. You’re leaving out millions of people there, but oh well, Jews and Christians are the only ones that have it figured out huh, Ret?

    As for your crap towards the Christianity posts, you post about one person who stated something where you claim that he is the reason you will never become a Christian, then in your next post, you past the drivel about not making an opinion based on a minority. That was incredibly hypocritical.

    I’m not sure if you are a liar, or just brain-damaged. I’m leaning toward the latter, because this is what I said:

    Wow. That’s pretty harsh. Thanks for reminding me about the type of thinking that will keep me from ever becoming a Christian. Wow.

    Where’s the degradation? I’m not degrading Christianity by simply stating that the views of people like garyt remind why I would never want to become a Christian. I reject the notion that one will burn in a lake of eternal hell-fire, no matter how quality of human being your are, simply because one chooses not to follow the teaching of Christ, and accept him as a savior. I’m not degrading it. I just reject it. I reject any organized religion with a similar ideology.
    I’m not calling my toilet Jesus, or saying Christianity comes from the gates of hell. If you’re saying Garyt is a radical, I’ll listen, and consider any hypocritical aspects of my post.

    You question how I can be offended? I find the whole concept of religious people Muslim, Christian, or the otherwise telling me, my daughter, or niece that you have to believe in “so,and so”, or you are gonna burn in hell. Yes, it’s very offensive, and if your Bible says so, or the Koran says so, I find those books offensive. If you take issue with that, go back to huffing on your gasoline can, and forget whatever may concern you.

    Lastly, if you believe the the majority of Muslims which number in multiple millions around the globe, are jihadists because of the thousands you mention, then we have nothing else to talk about it.

    Ret,
    I kind of figured we would ignore each other after the last go around, but apparently that isn’t the case. You take up a lot of screen space with your diatribes, and once every 3rd time or so, you can make sense. Surely it’s by accident. Usually, you just spew your anti-liberal anti-pinko anti-dem talking points with self satisfaction. You have also accused me of being anti-American, and unpatriotic without any cite to a comment…why, because you are a liar Ret,and there’s nothing to cite to. You like to run you mouth throw out a bunch of cliches and hope something sticks. You are a one-demensional joke. I know, I know back to my bridge, trip trap, trip trap, liberals of my ilk, elitest snob, unpatriotic, my glass navel, “everything I’ve said above”, blah, blah blah. I’ve seen more depth and nuance on the cartoon network.

13. #180500
    On November 27th, 2007 at 11:43 am, conservativesRus said:

    Buck: You’ve stated you reject (in summary) religion because of it’s telling you what you have to do to gain salvation and what the penalty is for not believing. That is your right to do so. I will say though that it’s a somewhat silly argument. If God has established laws for the universe, who are you to “reject” his laws. You seem to think you can only choose which ones you want. I don’t think though that you can reject gravity (put in place by God) or time (put in place by God). I presume your boss tells you exactly what you need to do to get your paycheck, and what will happen if you don’t…do you reject that. The government tells you exactly what you need to do to be in compliance with the tax code, and what will happen if you don’t…do you reject that too.

    While I personally don’t agree with much of the “reward” and penalty of the taxation system here in the USA, I do choose to obey it’s principles. The government is “bigger than me individually” and can enforce it’s own rules concerning me and my behaviors. In the same way, while a person may not especially like the idea that God supposedly condemns men to hell for non-belief…I still choose to believe and do what God asks as God is much bigger than me and certainly can enforce his will regardless of what I think. (And lest anyone worry about my theology here – I actually do glory in how a perfect holy God is totally separate from sin and knows that man can’t achieve that standard so provides a way of escape.)

    Lastly, I’ll say this. A much more accurate way to look at the condemnation issue though is not to think of God condemning anybody to anything…..they are already born in separated from God. You only have to look around an observe that children are not born intrinsically “good”. You don’t have to teach a child to lie, to cheat, to steal. They know that all by themselves. God however has offered a way of escape. You are rejecting that offer. That is your right.

    And for what it’s worth, I won’t get any “bonus points” for sending you to hell early. My job (and several others here) is to tell you…what you do with that information is between you and God.

14. #180575
    On November 27th, 2007 at 12:51 pm, Buck I said:

    I understand what you are saying Russ, but:

    I’d consider myself an agnostic. I’m not afraid to say that I’m not sure why we’re here, or where we are headed. I don’t think anyone does, really, but many do have “faith”.

    You have your traditional Christian viewpoint. A muslim has a different one, as does a Buddhist, Hindu, Rastafarian, Mormon, Wikkan, ect…..

    To each his/her own. I’m not sure if there’s a hell or not, but I can’t sellout my beliefs about judgement, condmnation, and hell. I’ve considered becoming a Buddhist, but figured, what’s the point. I will rather just:

    I’ll just try to be a good, son, brother, spouse, uncle friend, father, and American…..and then let the chips fall where they may.

    but enough about me. There will never be common ground about religion. It will always be that way, and dates back to and before the crusades(for 29Victor, man). We’ll all find out what happens after we croak, if it’s hell, so be it.

15. #180616
    On November 27th, 2007 at 1:24 pm, RetFireman said:

    No one is claiming you have to believe in any religion. No one is claiming you, your daughter, your neice, your dog your anything need to believe in anything. Since the current estimate is anywhere from 10-15% OF Muslims adhere to or follow a “Radical” or “Conservative” view of Islam, and there are 1.2 BILLION Muslims on this here blue marble circling the sun, I seem to do the math where that equates to 180 MILLION of those little Jihadi buggers running around. But maybe you think that number is too many. While I mentioned thousands, for the sake of what is shown in a photo in a newspaper or the web, in just one event, and figured you might have the grey matter inbetween your ears to make the coneection that there are countless others that do not go out to protest like any oter group yet still support or adhere to the teachings, maybe you think there is some number that is different? Maybe 10%? 5%? 1%? Tell me the percentage of Jihadis bent on the destruction of this and other countries and non-believers on this planet you feel is a fair estimate based on YOUR best guess, other than what the experts feel, and then do the math and tell us the number. Then look at the truth of the matter. It took just 19 of them to kill over 3000 people and plunge the world into war and a state of panic. It takes just one of them to kill 50-100 in a single bombing. It takes just one of them to set off a dirty nuke. It takes how many of them to continually set off IED’s in Iraq and soon to be here and other Infidel laden countries. How many of them are running the Sharri’ah courts? How many of them are running those countries?

    I’ll keep this short, since it seems your immature attention span seems to be incapable of holding a cohearant thought for very long. I have no idea what gave you the idea that your immature attepts at insults and inability to answer even the base attempts at debate or a simple question meant “hands off”, but since you insinuate yourself into every part of a discussion, and feel the need to insult every poster here, while offering nothing in the way of facts or debate, you can bet your troll like butt that you will be challenged every time you decide to open your troll like trap. When you go and insult someone for being a Christian, then defend someone for being Islamic, you will be challenged on that. When you insult someone for being COnservaine and then defend someone for being a traitorous Liberal, you will be challenged, and when you offer nothing but emotional based tripe, you will be challenged with facts. You won’t be allowed to spin things around, and you have, as of yet, to ever answer anything I have presented to you, no matter how you spin it. SO don’t keep insulting, it only keeps showing what a small minded troll you are. Now return to your bridge before the next billie goats come back over.

16. #180751
    On November 27th, 2007 at 3:57 pm, Buck I said:

    Thanks Ret:

    I also reject/condemn islamic jihadists. But I’m not gonna let Garyt use his soapbox to degrade another religion while demonstrating the vileness of his own dogmatic Christian views.

    referenced here:

    Muslims must be outraged when they are cast in hell after rejecting the real Truth of Jesus. Muslims being outraged over nothing like this shows that the religion definitely came from the gates of hell.

    You have also accused me of being anti-American, and unpatriotic without any cite to a comment…why, because you are a liar Ret,and there’s nothing to cite to. You like to run you mouth throw out a bunch of cliches and hope something sticks. You are a one-demensional joke. I know, I know back to my bridge, trip trap, trip trap, liberals of my ilk, elitest snob, unpatriotic, my glass navel, “everything I’ve said above”, blah, blah blah. I’ve seen more depth and nuance on the cartoon network.

    Thanks again. Yawnnnnn.

17. #181025
    On November 27th, 2007 at 9:40 pm, garyt said:

    Sorry Buck for taking so long to get back, I just got home. What was it you wanted me to address to on what you had said in earlier posts? Being agnostic does not give you much hope. A few years 70-90- perhaps? Why would you bet your eternal destiny on such a dismal prospect. Even if I am wrong I will have lost nothing because I still have a great life but If you are right you still gain nothing in the after life. Though if you are wrong and I am right then you have made the most diasterous decision ever. Remember after death you can’t repent and you will have to suffer the consequences of the Lord’s great sacrifice to pay for your sins and sins of all. Please open your heart and realize your prospects are dismal.

18. #181038
    On November 27th, 2007 at 10:15 pm, garyt said:

    buck, I do not mean to denegrate other religions, I am only speaking the truth is that Jesus said He is the only way , I didn’t say it, Jesus did and all other ways are false if you believe What the Lord has said. He also said its a very narrow way to heaven and wide is the gate of destruction (hell).

19. #181086
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:05 am, dakine said:

    garyt making Pascal’s wager I see.

20. #181509
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:08 pm, yohannbiimu said:

    Buck, I would just like to explain to you the Christian alligory that explains life and death. It is expalined as a journey, walking along one of two paths. One path takes those who travel it towards light everlasting–God’s presence. The other is broad, and it takes those who travel it to eternal darkenss–God’s absence.

    In other words, God does not throw those who reject him into hell, as you have alluded. Hell is simply the destination of the road that those who reject him are on. It is all a matter of God’s giving us free will to choose the path we wish to take. He will not change the path you wish to take.

    Your life and the way you live it is that path. If you willingly live it without God now, you will spend eternity without him later. It’s essentially that simple. If you leave God out of the equation of the road you are on, it will lead you to destruction. God will have nothing to do with how you got there. It will simply be the direction you are headed, and the final destination.