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4.   Why We Homeschool, Reason #806 - Pursuing Holiness
5. FUZZY MATH STRIKES OUT « Texas Hold ‘Em Blogger
6. Fuzzy Math — Cranach: The Blog of Veith
7. Neocon News » Daily Quick Hits 11/29/07
8. Michelle Malkin » The continuing curse of fuzzy math
9. Michelle Malkin » Everyday Math = junk
10. Michelle Malkin » The Iowa GOP Debate: “A little snappier, gentlemen!;” Update Fred Thompson’s not playing the “hand show;” Update: Aggghhh! The GOP candidates are all turning green
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12. Japan Following India’s Education Model « Ramblingcrusader’s Weblog
13. Malaysian School Education May Suck, But So Does Post-Modern Western Maths « BUUUUURRRRNING HOT
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15. Michelle Malkin » Saving schoolkids from the tyranny of tag
16. Fuzzy math: A nationwide epidemic « Crotonbettermath’s Weblog
17. Michelle Malkin » Why Johnny can’t do math

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Comments

1. #1
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:01 am, max said:

   “Innumeracy”: It’s what’s for dinner!

2. #2
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:02 am, islandman78 said:

   A. If math were a color, it would be –, because –.
   B. If it were a food, it would be –, because –.
   C. If it were weather, it would be –, because –.

   The Netflixization of America.

3. #3
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:03 am, dfern said:

   Several months ago I wrote a short review on Amazon.com for Barbara Ehrenreich’s book “Bait and Switch”. While this book has nothing to do with the topic at hand, I discussed my views of the public educational system as it pertains to mathematics instruction. This is what I wrote:

   The other main influence, the decline of public education, has been going on for at least the past 20 years and is a steady but elusive corrosion of the very foundation of our competitive energy as a nation — the intelligence and abilities of our citizens. As a technologist (and part time college professor of engineering in my spare time) I find it astounding that the standards of achievement and academic excellence, particularly in the mathematical and physical sciences, have been steadily declining at a time when the need for a populace that has a strong command of these subjects has never been greater. Many public school teachers with whom I have spoken clearly have little understanding of the value of mathematics and science. Most teachers dislike math, and many more will openly admit that they do not know how to teach it. They reject the notion of memorizing pointless algorithms of basic mathematics (addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division) because teaching methods by rote is considered “primitive”. Others scoff at the need for mathematics, as they cannot grasp its use in the “real world”. Such ignorance coming from the mouths of those tasked with educating our children borders on the criminal. Take a look around you at the computers we use every day, cellular phones, airplanes, cars, spaceships, roads, bridges, skyscrapers. Every single one of these things requires mathematics and science to conceive, design, and build. But even more important than this —- mathematics cultivates in the individual who studies it a set of tools for organized and critical thought. It teaches the concept of logic and organized reasoning, as well as the process of stating facts and how to prove their authenticity. To assert that such skills are unimportant in everyday life is to ignore the current political climate in which this country finds itself. A well-educated public that is capable of analytical thought is one of the foundations of good government and representation.

   The public education system in the United States is perhaps the last bastion of “Soviet-style” groupthink in the world, where the primary focus is on social indoctrination rather than a solid steeping in academic subjects essential to critical and analytical thinking. Our children today are some of the most ignorant individuals in the world, but they feel good about themselves. Educators are teaching our children to reject competition because it is inherently “unfair” that there should be winners and losers in anything; they are teaching our children to reject a pursuit of excellence because that makes you elitist; they are teaching our children to reject traditional family values in an attempt to rationalize the damage already done to the family primarily through left-wing institutions fueled by radical feminism and the homosexual movement.

   It is already well-known by foreigners that Americans are, in general, arrogant and ignorant about most of the rest of the world. Our educational institutions need to wake up to the fact that the very basic rules of economy still govern the world (as they always will) — as the supply of any commodity goes up, the value of that commodity goes down. If we are truly serious about reversing the loss of our competitive edge as a nation, we need to teach our children to be competitive, to pursue excellence, and to purge them of the notion that they are “special.” Neglecting to do this at an early age only delays the inevitable — when they get out into the world they will quickly learn that nobody gives a damn about how “special” they are or how hard they “try”. The winners in the world will be those who are the best at what they do.

4. #4
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:03 am, Rinoalert said:

   If you want your kid to learn math, home school with the Saxon Math curriculum- even if he/she is in public school.

5. #5
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:05 am, ajmontana said:

   This fuzzy math nonsense just doesnt add up.

6. #6
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:07 am, Mister P said:

   Oh gosh, is this a hot topic of mine. I am a former Math (and Science) teacher. I quickly learned it was better to teach in private schools than public schools despite the lower pay. However even they are CONTROLLED as I found out. I once had a freshman Algebra Class finish Algebra 1 by Christmas (all 13 chapters of the watered down text book). Since I finished the curriculum, and had half a year left, I taught them Algebra 2. But I could not get these students credit for taking Algebra 2. So they had to take it again. This was not an advanced class either, but your average class with some slower students (who earned the C’s they got).
   Fact: Our lock step approach slows down the learning process.
   Fact: MOST Math teachers are NOT qualified to teach Math.
   Fact: No CHILD left behind means the WHOLE class moves at the pace of the slowest student.
   Fact: Most parents expect the teachers to baby sit the kids.
   Fact: The purpose of schools is to “culturize” the students.
   Fact: 1/3 of new teachers quit after 1 or 2 years of trying to deal with undisciplined students.

7. #7
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:07 am, coldfront said:

   I do know of a school….it’s called ‘Homeschool’. It is usually multi-generational, involving all members of a family, as well as other like-minded ‘neighbors’. Because it involves a great deal of sacrifice on the part of the teachers, you can be very certain of their commitment & personal involvement in the life & education of the Child/Children being taught. Many of the ‘teachers’ tend to use Math books that pre-date the 2nd Vatican council…ie. from the 50s & earlier. This also & esp. applies to English grammar books. Books from the time when the 3 Rs were taught & everything else was, well, not as mandatory.

   I homeschooled my child @ a time when ‘we’ were considered freaks & mis-fits….how many times someone would get up into my face & demand to KNOW! WHAT!!!!was wrong w/ the public school system.
   Easy…..The public school system is a sewer streamlined to accommodate the lowest common denominator on all fronts & issues,where the art of ‘thinking’ is obsolete, the Name of Jesus cannot be sung @ Christmas…sorry……that’s mid-winter-whatever, & the buildings themselves,are poisonous.

8. #8
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:08 am, jenmom said:

   Thank you for this! My daughters started attending a public school where this Everyday Math is taught and it is insane! I am a former teacher and I can tell you that I am not a big fan of Everyday Math. It is just another trend in a long line of trends in the public schools and part of the reason we are not going to return to this school next year.

   My daughter comes home confused and I even understand what they are teaching but I just think it is so silly.

   A great example is my kindergartner - they want them to know how to count to really high numbers, before they even understand the concept of what that number is. At her conference, her teacher told me she was behind in math because she could not count to 60 (this was being in kindergarten after 2 months). I politely told her that maybe she couldn’t but that my daughter could add and subtract single digit numbers in her head. That did not impress her teacher.

   Everyday Math is just another complaint I have about this school. The other is Core Knowledge curriculum. Michelle - you should really check that one out too if you want to read up about some fishy curriculum being used in the schools!

9. #9
   On November 28th, 2007 at 10:11 am, coldfront said:

   “”The Never-Ending Debate”, or…
   “maintaining a choke-hold on public education.”

   http://www.freedomdogs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2442&Itemid=1

10. #10
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:11 am, Mister P said:

    BTW: I am still POed about Jimmy Carter vetoing the voucher bill. Our loss of jobs in this country can easily be traced to the down fall of the American educational system.

11. #11
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:13 am, Marshall Russ said:

    I just asked my son what 7×7 is. Uh, like I think 49? Now 6×6? no answer. I put my head down on my desk. Back to memorization of the tables. There is no substitute for memorizing the tables. My daughters’ math improved when they were young when “I” helped them memorize. The point is, is that as a parent you must stay involved no matter what system the school uses.

12. #12
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:15 am, Mister P said:

    Parents must stay involved. But that system is costing us 10,000 dollars per child per year. As a tax payer I hold IT responsible.

13. #13
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:15 am, Buck I said:

    We are already behind some other industrialized countries in math and science, so what’s the solution? Everyday Math and Fuzzy Math. I’m tired of this dumbing down of Americans.

    I’m also tired of the sissification. No more dodgeball, no more team sports during recess, no more keeping score. Some schools across the country are actually implementing these policies. It’s ridiculous. I fear for this country based on the way future men and women being molded mentally and physically.

14. #14
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:19 am, Mister P said:

    We don’t realize how close the US is to becoming a third world nation. Our schools keep us stupid, while our large corporations move abroad and our politicians sell the pieces.

15. #15
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:21 am, Marshall Russ said:

    But, BUCK I,#13, that’s the liberal way. Get to the children before they develop into jingoistic, patriotic Americans that can think for themselves!

16. #16
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:23 am, 30 pcs of silver said:

    A most interesting fact of history is that Americans were probably the most literate people in the world before the advent of government schools and compulsory school attendance. Since the U.S. was already highly literate when parents were allowed complete freedom in educating their children, the reason behind compulsory attendance obviously had nothing to do with academics. Neither was the problem one of economics, as there was not a shortage of charity schools. If the purpose was not one of academics or to help poor children receive an education, what was the intent behind the push for government schools and more importantly, compulsory attendance laws? This is an urgent question that begs an honest answer because with ever increasing government controls and compulsory attendance, American literacy rates have steadily plummeted. With the billions of dollars spent on education can this really be an accident? In my recent column, “Socialism - A Con Game of the Economic Elite”, I mentioned the wealthy power-hungry socialists who control both major political parties and have been working behind the scenes of government for decades now to change America from a God-fearing free country to atheistic socialism. Such a change called for radically altering American culture. How does one go about altering a culture? Through control of education of course. Altering a culture makes it necessary to erase a nation’s true history and replace it with “politically correct” thought. All teaching of the biblical God who demands individual responsibility must cease. The value of each individual must be discarded for the benefit of “community”. Intelligence is a hindrance to socialist ideals. Cooperation is the goal, not truth or facts. Children are to learn to be much more “social”, not intellectual. Independent intelligence stands in the way of the socialist “utopia” dreamed of by the wealthy elites who really run our government. In his 1932 book “Toward Soviet America”, William Z. Foster, head of the Communist Party, USA, stated, “Among the elementary measures the American Soviet government will adopt to further the cultural revolution are the following: schools, colleges, and universities will be coordinated and grouped under the National Department of Education and its state and local branches. The studies will be revolutionized, being cleansed of religious, patriotic, and other features of the bourgeoisie ideology. The students will be taught on the basis of Marxist dialectical materialism, internationalism, and the general ethics of the new socialist society.”
    

    It is imperative that we get government out of the education business before it’s too late. Private schools do a much better job educating and for much less money, too. They do a better job because if they didn’t, they would go out of business. They do it for less money because they are forced to compete for students. The best thing about private schools is that they are accountable to parents for results where government schools are not! With our government education monopoly, the worse the results, the more money they extort from us! We need real freedom in education where we are not forced to pay for a government education monopoly that produces such poor results.
    Before the election of local, state or federal legislators be sure to find out where they stand on the issue of education. For the Federal government to be involved in education at all is in blatant violation of the U.S. Constitution. Don’t fall for socialist con words like “choice” or “accountability” in education. In socialist doublespeak “choice” means you might be permitted to choose among several different government schools in your area (all of which are promoting the same socialist programs). “Accountability” means accountable to government, not to parents. Make it known in no uncertain terms that you want to take back the educational system that made America the greatest nation on earth -FREEDOM in education!

17. #17
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:24 am, 30 pcs of silver said:

    My apologies for the long post. This article was just too good not to pass it on.

18. #18
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:27 am, Stubby said:

    I suggest going back to the three group learning, where Group 1 was the high achievers, Group 2 was mediocre achievers, and Group 3 for the dunces. I remenber everyone striving to get into Group 1 except the perpetual losers. A class can’t be geared to the aspirations of failures. If you can’t keep up, you’re out. We shouldn’t be concerned about the “feelings” of those who have no desire to work and get ahead. We need these people to do the work Americans won’t do.

19. #19
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:28 am, James Felix said:

    The solution to this is really quite simple.

    Any teacher that advocates the use of this system should be legally required to live in a house built by engineers and contractors trained exclusively in Everyday Math. I bet we’d go back to teaching plain-old Math overnight.

    Reading this makes me even more grateful that my parents scrimped to send me to Catholic school. Of course when I was a kid I hated the nuns with all their “stupid” rules and “unfair” homework assignments. As an adult I can’t thank them enough.

20. #20
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:35 am, On-my-soap-box said:

    Mister P #6

    I, and my GED, are a product of what you are talking about. Math was like a language to me. I just understood it and never had to study math to understand it. I had the highest test scores in High school as a freshman. All advanced classes. Because I did not do homework, I was penalized (for being too smart). When I became a senior, I was going to have to repeat all of the courses I had taken as I did not get credit for them. I opted for the GED and scored in the top 1% in the nation. Most colleges would not accept me because I opted for the GED. I bucked the system every step of the way and had to teach myself to learn what I needed to do what I do.

    Public schools are only getting worse. I am glad my kids are done with them. I have a Grandson now and his Grand-dude is going to make sure he gets a proper education.

21. #21
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:37 am, tikvah said:

    I spent last school year taking classeses in Maryland to get my teaching certificate. We didn’t do any classes on math, just reading (probably part of the problem), but if the fuzzy reading I learned to teach is any indicator, I can just imagine the math. All year long, I was mentally contrasting what my students would be expected to do with what I did growing up as a homeschooler. I thought, “Either I was some sort of child genius, or today’s children are idiots.” Neither is true, but I was constantly amazed at how everything was dumbed down. My mom recently told me that at the end of her 1st grade year she read all of “Little Women” by herself. Public schools sure have changed since the 1950s. Back to the basics!

22. #22
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:38 am, max said:

    30pcs #16…

    Getting the government out of the education business…I agree 100%

    very low probability though, what with the socialist teacher’s union and all…

23. #23
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:44 am, 30 pcs of silver said:

    Agreed. It’s important to be in-the-know as well. We may not be able to change the system but we sure can do our best to counteract it…that is within our powers.

24. #24
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:44 am, abinitioadinfinitum said:

    And us stupid older people, used to laugh at this type of nonsense. Now they teach it in schools.???

25. #25
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:50 am, reine.de.tout said:

    True Story: I recently went into a store to purchase some items advertised in the newspaper as being “Two for $5″. Since the items did not have a price tag on them, when I got to the check-out counter I told the check-out clerk that I had an ad saying that these items were two for $5. “Oh, no!”, she said. “That’s not the price for these! These are $2.50 each!”.
    duh.

26. #26
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:55 am, bound4er said:

    Why we trust bloated, bureaucratic government run schools to teach indoctrinate our kids is beyond me.

27. #27
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:55 am, coldfront said:

    The feminizing of American males & the glamorization of American females needs to cease immediately. It is a distraction to realizing human potential.

    The most basic lesson needs to be re-introduced,…
    that there are meaningful consequences to every action, &, that you do not do a person a favor by NOT holding them responsible for their actions.

    A successful life is based on a clear thinking process.
    A successful thinking process is based in language….ie. you can only think as well as you can speak your own language.

    & finally, the endless ‘lessons’ taught by your TV set & the record industry, that human success is measured by how much money you make & how much ’stuff ‘ you own, needs to be shut off.

    “Everybody today seems to be in such a terrible rush, anxious for greater developments and greater riches and so on, so that children have very little time for their parents. Parents have very little time for each other, and in the home begins the disruption of peace of the world. ” &

    “Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. ” Mother Teresa

28. #28
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:55 am, DarleenClick said:

    My twin grandsons, 5, started kindergarten this year. Already my daughter is stressing they’ll have to “repeat” because the teacher is harping that they are behind in their homework.

    Yes, HOMEWORK in kindergarten! Packets of busywork. And they are supposed to be drilled each night in their “sight words” and they are expected to read to 100 by the end of the school year. The teacher even broadly hinted that the boys should be tested for ADD and my daughter was aghast. Her stepbrother (now 13) was definitely ADHD and the twins don’t compare at all. She told the teacher to don’t even go there. They are just normal 5 y/o boys meaning their attention spans are short because they are very energenic.

    I know text book companies keep coming up with “new” ways so they can get the big bucks out of a large school districts, but obviously if it ain’t broke don’t fix it! Basic math drills (times tables, long division, etc) are still the best.

    argh

29. #29
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:56 am, terrig said:

    The cartoon of the Principal admonishing the teacher is sooooooooo true. I used to teach AP US History and had an experience where a student who shouldn’t have been there in the first place was failing. I wanted her moved to a regular class as she was holding the rest of the group back. I was told by my AP that she would remain in the class and that the rest of us must “adjust our teaching” (she was also in AP English, AP Science & AP Math) to her level. We complained to the Principal and were told the same thing and it didn’t matter what we said, her work samples, etc.
    Math wasn’t my best subject but at least I was able to learn the old Catholic school way. This “Everyday Math” is a joke!

30. #30
    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:56 am, DarleenClick said:

    typo .. should be “count” to 100

    PIMF!

31. #31
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:00 am, crashemt said:

    The lack of education and reading skill is a tool used by islamists and communists to control the masses. Only the simple minded can be controlled by schemes such as:

    “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need”

    “Suicide death for God (Allah) shall bring you all the glory of Heaven”

    Remember, is is a sin punishable by death to contradict the State (communism) or the Mullah (Islam).

    Stalin first targeted the rich, then the intelligent, and executed all of them. Hitler targeted the intelligent, and either enslaved them to their death, or emprisoned them within the government to build his weapons. The Taliban banned education outside of the madrasas. Schools are routinely destroyed, and teachers hung or stoned. Few Islamic nations allow women to go to school, or continue beyond a certain point. Most of the Pakistani women (and men, for that matter) who have a higher education went to Western schools.

    I used to say, “There but for the Grace of God go we.”

    I’m changing that to, “Not long now…”

32. #32
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:01 am, geminicontender said:

    “Unionized!” That is the downfall of our education system. Once incentive is replaced with dogma nothing can move forward. Condums are more important than math. Colors are more important than history (as it really happened). Fire the teachers, get rid of the unions and start over. Allow books ;ike Huck Finn and Ten Little Indiabns. Screw the PC’s and the Muslim minorities. Let’s learn thenecessary things in life to succeed.. Now there’s a word the Libs hate most…SUCCESS!!!!

33. #33
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:02 am, Old Tanker said:

    My kids school district doesn’t use this (thankfully) Nor did the district I taught in (when I taught). I taught Physics and Chemistry and for the most part, my students had pretty sound math skills, thankfully because we had “normal” math teachers…..

34. #34
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:07 am, conservativesRus said:

    This stuff is not new. 30 years ago, I had a “similar” experience. I was rather fortunate so I was ready to take calculus when I was a sophomore in HS but the principle of my school wanted me to take math enrichment instead of calculus. As far as I could tell then, math enrichment was doing the same problems which you already knew how to do and apply to the real world while wearing blue socks, then doing it wearing brown socks. See if that makes you feel different. Aren’t you enriched by that experience?
    I fortunately had the singleness of focus (and backing of my parents and some teachers) to insist that my immediate goal was calculus, and that was what I planned to take.
    Of course, I’m much worse off now as I really don’t know how I’d feel if I’d worn argyle socks doing math problems.

35. #35
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:08 am, Monte Hall said:

    In 1982 A young man (age 27)in my apartment complex lamented that he tried to get back in the military but couldn’t score high enough on the math portion of the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB) pre-enlistment screening. After asking him a few simple math questions I could see he did not know multiplication or division. I then made up a multiplication table and told him to memorize it, as doing so was vital for him to master division. After just a few weeks of tutoring, he re-took the ASVAB and enlisted in the Marines.

36. #36
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:11 am, MissMarciLyn said:

    #4 — ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

    My father-in-law has convinced his school system to go with Saxon Math (they let him experiment with it in his seventh grade math classes, then once they saw the test scores of these kids, they had the whole junior high school do it, and once they saw how much better they all did, it was passed onto the senior high school.

    Saxon works, in school or at home!!

37. #37
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:13 am, DocattheAutopsy said:

    I teach college chemistry (General Chem 1 and Organic Chemistry). The math problems I run into are complex (naturally) so I encourage the students to bring calculators to class to solve the problems as I go along.

    What I’ve discovered is that there are about 5-6 (out of 60) that get out their calculators to work along with me as I solve the examples. The rest just stare blankly. And when the test comes around, the complain they don’t know how to solve the problems.

    It’s very frustrating. Students graduating high school now are truly lacking in basic problem-solving skills.

38. #38
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:13 am, kemphd said:

    I was a permanent sub in a junior high in Indiana for a year. During that time, one 7th grade math teacher told me that her students didn’t know their times tables and she didn’t have time to teach that because she was mandated to get through the 7th grade math book. However, the kids were struggling with the math because they couldn’t multiply. She wanted to tape a small times tables list on the desks so the kids would have it as reference. I told her she shouldn’t do that. I told her to take the first 5-10 minutes each class period and give them a multiplication quiz. It would be simple: write all the times tables from 1 through 12 every day. The students should have to do this every day until every kid in the class had it right 100%. She looked a little startled and then nodded like that was a good idea. I don’t know if she ever did it, but it is appalling to think that 7th graders couldn’t multiply. I don’t know how those kids kept gettng passed. Of course, this is why I didn’t get my teaching certificate because I have no qualms about failing kids who won’t do the work. I wouldn’t survive long with that kind of attitude.

39. #39
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:14 am, dominigan said:

    We homeschool 3 of our 4 children. Most of my relatives are or were teachers. Informing them of our decision to homeschool was “interesting” but has gone much better than expected!

    Fuzzy math is crap. I had to deal with it as a parent, where I could barely understand what they were asking for, and how they expected the student to come up with the answer… and I’m a computer software architect! I ended up teaching my kids math.

    I still remember when I took an hour one weekend to teach my (oldest) 1st grader how to carry. By the end of the hour, she was adding 2, 3 and 4 numbers in the MILLIONS, and getting correct answers! Within a week, I got a nasty note from her teacher to “stop showing her these things because she’s already ahead of the rest of the class”! (Lots of choice words went through my head after reading that!)

    A sidenote: When my youngest started 1st grade in public school, I had the “joy” of attending orientation as a parent. They told us that they would be focusing on teaching them “problem solving”, and that we parents needed to teach them the base math skills. The highlight of the night came when we were asked to write down on an index card what expectations were for the teachers in teaching “their” kids…

    “The authority and responsibility for teaching my child, falls upon me. I am accountable to God for educating my child. I am merely choosing to delegate that authority to you for the time being.”

    The next year, I revoked that delegation of authority and my daughter started homeschool and has done tremendously ever since.

40. #40
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:16 am, James Felix said:

    It would be simple: write all the times tables from 1 through 12 every day.

    I know a lot of people pooh-pooh rote learning as being bad, or brainless. I’d like to point out that people educated in that way devised the atomic bomb and put men on the moon. People instructed in the new math struggle with a cash register at McDonalds.

    So, really, which works better?

41. #41
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:24 am, conservativehomeschooler said:

    On November 28th, 2007 at 10:03 am, Rinoalert said:

    If you want your kid to learn math, home school with the Saxon Math curriculum- even if he/she is in public school.

    As a homeschooler myself, there are plenty of excellent resources for math: Singapore Math books, Rod & Staff math, Math-U-See and many more to choose from. Right now we are currently using Math-U-See.

42. #42
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:33 am, dominigan said:

    The neat part about homeschooling is that you can also mix and match. When we started really getting into the books, we started using a mashup of Saxon and others based upon their strengths.

    This is REALLY powerful when you apply it to literature. We mixed and matched all sorts of reading lists to emphasize our child’s interests.

    My one daughter was a premie (2 1/2 months premature), and had horrible problems with reading comprehension. She could read a paragraph 4 times and still couldn’t tell us what it was about. She hated reading in public school. She is now in 11th grade (still homeschooled) and reads voraciously!!!

43. #43
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:42 am, PokerGuy said:

    The Democratic Party exists because of people who place feelings above thought and reason. These are the same people who view “individual accomplishment” as an evil concept, from the person level all the way up to the individual nation-state. Social activists have been firmly entrenched in “education” since the 60’s, and they now own the arts and soft sciences. They also own the education departments, churning out carbon copies of themselves who see education as a tool to restructure U.S. culture in order to accommodate their views on race/class/gender. This underlies all the “New…”

    Little Jimmy will turn out to be an ignorant, useless member of society; but that’s just fine with a Left which depends on millions of Little Jimmies to buy into their version of a government that promises to continue coddling them and their offspring for the rest of their miserable lives.

44. #44
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:51 am, LarryD said:

    #16,17 30 pcs of Silver

    So the short version is: government education makes you ignorant.

45. #45
    On November 28th, 2007 at 11:54 am, EHeavenlyGads said:

    Deja vu. Like conservativesRus, I was introduced to original “New Math” in the early 70s. It was a nightmare experiment that ended within a few years due to abject failure. Those of us whose parents drilled us on “standard” mathematics were penalized with bad grades for not using the “proper methods” of arriving at perfectly correct answers. My parents were among many then who went balistic and brought about the end of New Math in our school.

    Back then, my mother stayed at home and every day directed my after-school homework on these standards she was brought up with. Thanks to my parents’ vehement refusal to accept “modern” methods, I not only survived liberal tinkering, but left high school a year early and finished my college degree in three years. With my own children, I did exactly the same as my mother, but fortunately, their schools relied on the old tried-and-true methods and they have excelled in college beyond my wildest dreams.

    Today’s education system is pure insanity, and my heart goes out to parents struggling to provide their children with the slightest hope of success in this world.

    If we are truly serious about reversing the loss of our competitive edge as a nation, we need to teach our children to be competitive, to pursue excellence, and to purge them of the notion that they are “special.” Neglecting to do this at an early age only delays the inevitable — when they get out into the world they will quickly learn that nobody gives a damn about how “special” they are or how hard they “try”. The winners in the world will be those who are the best at what they do.

    Amen, dfern.

    Thank you, 30pcs, for the excellent read. I could not possibly agree more.

46. #46
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:14 pm, jenmom said:

    You know - my husband and I were talking and he said, well we’ll just have to teach them math at home to make up for what she isn’t learning at school. And I thought - then why not homeschool her now? I have decided - my kids will either be homeschooled after the semester break or go back to the private school (they used Saxon Math and Reading) that we were in. I feel like my daughter is wasting this year at school because of the poor curriculum at her school.

47. #47
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:23 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    What I’ve discovered is that there are about 5-6 (out of 60) that get out their calculators to work along with me as I solve the examples.

    #37 - calculators?! That was cheating in my day…Just kidding, no whale oil caculators…

    Seriously, if your kids are in a district like this, put them in a private school. (Or homeschool if you have the time.) I mentioned in a previous post on another thread that another option is tutoring over the Internet with a tutor in India. These people (no financial affiliation) will tutor as many 45 minute sessions in a month as you want for $99. First month is $49.95.

    While a tutor in India is not a long-term solution for America, your child doesn’t have the time to wait for the U.S. to fix public education.

48. #48
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:32 pm, travis said:

    Heh. I love the reasoning behind everyday mathematics not teaching algorithms. “It’s not worth it, just use a calculator!” I had a friend in high school who said the same thing. I don’t see him much now, McDonalds doesn’t have very flexible hours.

49. #49
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:34 pm, ConMom said:

    Michelle, thanks for the reminder of my opposition to “Everyday Math”. We use this crap in our district and both my children have had the torturous experience of going along year after year. I have talked to our assistant superintendent (I call those people educrats) many times about the boring, needless repetition and how I want my kids to be challenged. Fortunately both my children are very bright when it comes to math and she knows that..and she loves to remind me that not everyone has those capabilities…of which I reply, fine then get them some additonal math support but start challenging my kids! It’s SOOOO frustrating! UGH!

    My husband doesn’t support the idea of me homeschooling and I don’t have an extra $15k each year to send them to the local christian school. So public (government run) schools are one of my crosses to bear. I make sure that I am involved and know their curriculum. I pour over their textbooks at the beginning of each year and make sure to discuss with my kids anything I find suspect and/or incorrect so they know where I’m coming from. And I also make sure that all their teachers know that I am a christian and that I won’t tolerate (gasp) any funny business. For the most part, I haven’t run in to any far-out liberal teachers in our district…but my son will be going to highschool next year!

    So thanks for putting me on guard again…as I need this reminder every once in awhile!

50. #50
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:34 pm, Regulus said:

    Direct parental educational involvement is now a requirement to avoid their children’s cultural, functional and literal illiteracy. That’s perhaps the biggest single change I’ve noticed between today and the Olden Days of Yore.

    Back then, my parents could march five kids through the public schools and see four of them go on to receive college degrees. Yet their involvement in our education was limited to providing books to read and attending parent-teacher conferences.

    You can’t get away with that today.

    It used to be common to ask your kid, “What did you learn in school today?” Now it’s, “What did they tell you in school today?” In some cases it’s not so much having to fill in the gaps of what they’re not learning, but having to “de-program” them: e.g., “Happy Winter Solstice Day, daddy! Look - I made you a ‘Kwanzaa’ card in art class!”

    If you take a laissez-faire approach to your kids’ education, then I hope you’ve prepared yourself for a future in which they’ll still be living with you in their 30s. Like it or not, today’s public school environment means that we’re all “home-schoolers” now - it’s just a matter of to what extent.

51. #51
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:36 pm, supersean said:

    I am not an advocate of home schooling as I believe that this takes away a very important part of a childhood. I have some of my fondest memories and build the strongest friendships through my experiences in school.

    The fuzzy math and other curriculum failure issue bring to light what is to me one of our nations greatest threats. Although our higher education system remains one of the best in the world, attendance at these institutions by Americans is decreasing at an alarming rate.

    Looking further into this statistic, we can already see the results as participation in advance engineering and sciences is now a field being beginning to be dominated by foreigners.

    Unless we see a reversal in this trend (and quickly), expect to see American dominance in these fields begin to taper off.

52. #52
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:37 pm, locomotivebreath1901 said:

    These hair pulling nightmares of government school corruption & incompetence are nothing new.

    The question is: What are the citizens who pay for this blithering malfeasance going to do about it? That means you & me.

    The only way to kill this inefficient, costly, and sometimes deadly tax payer supported, government school bureaucracy dedicated - not to educational excellence - but to the NEA’s prestige & power, is to starve it. Cut off the money!
    
    VOTE SCHOOL VOUCHERS * VOTE SCHOOL CHOICE

53. #53
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:38 pm, realitycheck said:

    For 35 years, we have been subjected to a failed experiment, ‘new math.’

    If this math-myth has been perpetuated in the schools for 35 years, I wonder what other compromised core curriculum is being foisted on students in the name of educational experimentation?

    Kinda explains the whole new crop of “scientists” who are preaching the human-caused global warming agenda. Fuzzy science.

54. #54
    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:42 pm, travis said:

    It used to be common to ask your kid, “What did you learn in school today?” Now it’s, “What did they tell you in school today?”

    Thats funny!

55. #55
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:14 pm, LuxEternam said:

    I have triplets who are now nearing 18 years old. When they were in elementary, our school system decided that their particular school would be a testbed for a similar “fuzzy math” program called Connected Math. It stressed estimation and doing math in their heads. News flash to the school district. 2 + 2 actually equals EXACTLY 4. Not around 4.

    It drove my wife and I insane that in sixth grade, our kids would have to count on their fingers if we asked them what is 2×2 is. We had enough and went out and bought good old fashioned flash cards and taught them the multiplication tables. Their grades soared. We got an angry note from their math teacher when we had the AUDACITY to teach them long division, when the school would not. They blew through every division problem that was put to them, because the rest of the class was trying to to still “estimate.”

    When they got out of elementary school we were given the option of following a traditional math program or continuing in the Connected Math program. This was due to the constant torrent of complaints received by the school system. 95% of the parents selected the traditional math program. The school spent weeks trying to convince parents that the CM program was the wave of the future. We were not fooled. The kids who followed the CM program are lucky if they graduate with the ability to still get 2+2=4.

56. #56
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:20 pm, islandman78 said:

    McGraw-Hill, publisher of this turd of a mathematics textbook, also publishes BusinessWeek. Recently, BusinessWeek has gone through a makeover that I find somewhat jarring. Ironically, it involves leading zeroes on each page number. For example, 40 is printed as 040. Why not go with 00100? I think they missed the boat on that symmetrical gem! Better yet, to be hip they should go with binary code. It is this kind of mentality that goes hand in hand with Everyday Mathematics.

57. #57
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:21 pm, shooter said:

    The 2002 No Child Left Behind law requires schools to test students annually in reading and math, and imposes sanctions on schools that miss testing goals.

    .
    Read between the lines.
    What they do is not only reduce the class to the slowest child, they pass each and every student regardless of abilities.
    Otherwise… “and imposes sanctions on schools that miss testing goals”.
    Schools now send all students ahead which eventually means they have a surplus of 12th graders that CAN NOT GRADUATE. This is their big secret…look into it.
    The kids have to continue doing 12th grade as seniors until they catch up. Most can NOT catch up, so they drop out.
    No Child left behind leaves education of children left behind.

58. #58
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:21 pm, AlohaGuy said:

    Schooling is too important to leave to “educators”. Sorry, edjukaters.

59. #59
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:34 pm, tikvah said:

    On November 28th, 2007 at 12:36 pm, supersean said:
    I am not an advocate of home schooling as I believe that this takes away a very important part of a childhood. I have some of my fondest memories and build the strongest friendships through my experiences in school.

    That’s funny, I did as well, and I homeschooled from birth through high school. Homeschoolers are NOT stuck at home all day, they are typically very involved in outside activities and often do classes, field trips, and other events in homeschool groups. Debate, drama, choir, art, foreign language, sports, 4-H, Math club-you want it, you get a group together and do it. The world is your classroom,and you get to socialize with people of all ages and backgrounds, not just 30 other kids your age. I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

60. #60
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:37 pm, cindylarsen said:

    Here’s an idea, homeschool!

61. #61
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:40 pm, redbug70 said:

    I pass a local elementary school on the way to work everyday. A while back they were promoting on their sign that it was Multicultural Math Week.

    Can anyone tell an old codger exactly what Multicultural Math is?

62. #62
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:47 pm, zzzzzzzzzz..... said:

    I had to spend hours with my son on teaching him math after he came home with his homework. I would spend 2-3 hours a night on this stuff. He ended up with straight A’s but if I had not had the time he would have been a c-d student. I should not have to spend that kind of time on teaching this stuff wehn he goes to school for 6 hours a day.

    The teacher would send homework home marked incorrect if we did not us ethe Chicago method. He was so confused by this method I had to spend another 3 hours going over the importance of the 1’s, 10’s andd 100’s places. He said she said “it was not important. Wow, we worked on it for 5 hours and he aced the test. Everyone else did so poorly she gave the same test again and the scores were averaged, which shows you she did not understand the concept of weighted average and she is the teacher…

63. #63
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:48 pm, bit_boy said:

    Improving our kids reading performance is a multiple part construction. The two most important parts are vocabulary and phonics (phonics helps the student to better spelling also). These are basic tools needed for scholarly endeavor.

    I’m not familiar with Saxon Math, Rinoalert #4, but we do need a phonics for math tool. Given dfern #3 evaluation that basic math can be reduced to simple algorithms and higher math and statistics are algorithms that are exercised with various applications phonics for math could be developed and applied with good effect (and perhaps put on a DVD for use on a personal computer).

    My ad hominem for our education system is diversity is the mother of incompetence.

64. #64
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:51 pm, patrick said:

    for #51…you said:
    “I am not an advocate of home schooling as I believe that this takes away a very important part of a childhood. I have some of my fondest memories and build the strongest friendships through my experiences in school.”

    We pulled our kids out of public school two years ago to start homeschooling and their social life is actually better since they are not dealing with hours of homework every night (they get it done with parental supervision). Both of my children are on gymnastics and archery teams, perform or compete in figure-skating, and are very active in scouting. We get to ensure they interact with great kids who reinforce the ethics of hard work, discipline, citizenship, and self-sufficiency. As an added bonus, they, like most home schooled children, can talk to anyone of any age. They are no longer brainwashed by the “only 6th graders talk to 6th graders mentality.” That isn’t the real world, just the stratified social experiment we call public education. We take the IOWA every year and even with them skipping grades (which the public system wouldn’t allow), they test in the top 2% and 4% of their grade levels.

    “…our higher education system remains one of the best in the world, attendance at these institutions by Americans is decreasing at an alarming rate.”

    I have to say, as someone who will finish his PhD in Engineering in about 8 months, attendance is up, but it is in pseudo degree programs that only separate from your dollars. You know the ones I am talking about. They have little to no benefits (besides the social aspects…wait isn’t that the purpose of education these days).
    If it were not for the many foreign students in engineering and sciences, we wouldn’t have the quality in those areas. This of course is a double whammy to US engineering students. They don’t have the skills and many engineering, math, and statistics classes are taught by English as a second language instructors which cause many to flee these disciplines. Surf the websites of engineering and science faculties and you will see a changing of the guard. If you check their bios, you will see very few professors in the sciences are US born citizens without a head of white/gray hair and not two steps from retirement age.

65. #65
    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:56 pm, patrick said:

    Mea culpa… I should have used the preview function!

66. #66
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:02 pm, crowe said:

    Yeah, fuzzy math doesn’t work so well for me. The mortgage company isn’t too happy when I pay close to the balance due.

67. #67
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:02 pm, realitycheck said:

    On November 28th, 2007 at 1:40 pm, redbug70 said:
    Can anyone tell an old codger exactly what Multicultural Math is?

    “Dos + Dos = Quatro”

68. #68
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:04 pm, Mister P said:

    In 1972, I went through teacher education at EIU and student teaching. We had 80 math education students student teaching in the Spring quarter. When I came back 10 years later for a Masters degree, they had 1 math education student for the entire year. They went from over 200 Math Education Majors in 1972 to 1 in 1982.
    Now tell me, who has been teaching math for the past 25 years (certainly not math majors)?

69. #69
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:05 pm, Miss Ladybug said:

    I am a product of “government schools”: 8 of my 13 years in school were at DoDDS schools in Germany. Those were run by the Defense Department. It was almost like going to a private school - small class sizes and (in my experience) good teachers. An added bonus for the teachers (beyond the choice teaching assignment of teaching American kids in a foreign country) was student behavior. We never had any issues with it at the schools I attended, but it would not have been unheard-of for the military parent to be contacted by a commanding officer for egregious behavior from a child. Dependent behavior bad enough, and they ship you (the dependent) back to the States. Normal public schools don’t have that option - they have to take everyone, and behavior have to be enormously bad to have a student pulled from a “regular” campus and set to whatever “alternative” school the district has set up.

    I did my student teaching last fall in a particularly difficult 3rd grade class. I had discussions with my cooperating teacher about students who were not performing to the grade level expectation. She said it’s a bit of a double-edged sword: promoting a student who isn’t prepared doesn’t do that student any favors, but holding them back doesn’t do any favors to the teacher next year, or that student’s classmates - the student held back will be a year older than the rest of the class and is a potential discipline problem. Any, if a teacher has too many “failing” students (regardless of the WHY they are failing), the teacher will be penalized.

    Whoever above mentioned having “tracking” of students - I think that is an excellent idea. When you have students of all 3 abilities in one classroom, the students know who the “smart” and “dumb” kids are anyway. The teacher education program I went through taught that when planning lessons, planning should be made to take into account those students in your class who either need remedial teaching and/or an extra challenge. However good that sounds in theory, putting it into practice is very difficult.

    Thinking back to when I was in school, I don’t ever really recall having to have my parents help with homework, but at least my mom would go to the parent/teacher conferences (dad wasn’t always available - where the Army sends you and all…), and mom also volunteered at school (she was a stay-at-home mom until my dad retired from the Army when I was in college). At the school I did my student teaching, there was ONE parent who volunteered at school - she would take care of things like running copies and laminating things. At another school in the same district where I have done lots of substitute teaching, there are tons of parent volunteers - this year they did a fabulous job decorating the library inside and out to promote the Scholastic book fair. Difference between the school? Economic status: the school in the “poor” neighborhood seems to have parents who think it’s all up to the school to take care of educating kids; the school in the “wealthy” neighborhood seem to have parents who very much value education and therefore are involved in the education of their children…

    But, back to the math: the one class on teaching elementary mathematics I took for my M.Ed.? The professor said there was no substitute for rote memorization of things like addition and subtraction facts, and multiplication tables. But, we were also shown that “lattice” multiplication and those other weird methods… Also, AISD uses the “Investigations” books. They were used heavily in my student teaching school. Not so much at the one school I’ve subbed at a lot.

    As for NCLB and testing? Student teaching school did practice tests weekly for the 3rd graders. By the end of the semester, we were losing an entire day of instruction each week (every Friday) in order to have students learn how to take a multiple choice reading test. The semester following, they repeated with math… This doesn’t count the time (45 minutes?) when all 3 English classes (as opposed to the 4 bilingual 3rd grade classes) met in the pod (a large “common” area in the hallway) to go over testing strategies. School where I sub a lot? No regular discussion of the TAKS test or the “high stakes” attached to their results - they don’t have to worry about their students not passing…

70. #70
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:12 pm, Innismir said:

    *sigh*

    I am spending the week drilling myself on electrical theory (which, while it may sound impressive, is nothing more then basic math with a touch of algebra) to try upgrade my amateur radio license on Saturday. Now, Michelle has to go post this just to completely make me depressed regarding the future of both my hobby and the future of engineering in general. Thanks Michelle.

    Patrick:

    We pulled our kids out of public school two years ago to start homeschooling and their social life is actually better since they are not dealing with hours of homework every night (they get it done with parental supervision). Both of my children are on gymnastics and archery teams, perform or compete in figure-skating, and are very active in scouting.

    Kudos to you for: A. Realizing that kids need need a life outside of schooling, and B. Being active in Scouting (Eagle here myself).

    Unfortunately, most parents aren’t like you. They home school and have genius children who can’t carry on a conversation or sometimes even behave in public. I went to college for engineering and we had two students who I know were home schooled. They could easily have gone toe-to-toe with some of the TAs brain wise, but I dreaded being in groups with them because they were next to useless in communicating ideas and “playing well with others.”

    So, while you seem to be getting it right, sadly, there are far too many parents out there who aren’t.

71. #71
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:18 pm, franksalterego said:

    Following some links led me to this “problem” for a kindergartener:

    1-77)

    Make a picture of one black ant and two red crabs. Underneath it make a picture of one red ant. Put two crabs next to the ant. What color will the crabs be?

    Asking a kindergartener to make an assumption, based on the color of one ant…Or, answer “Not Enough Information” which is prob’ly beyond the critical thinking ability of a 5 year-old.

    As if, there weren’t ENOUGH problems in the world, based on assumptions.

72. #72
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:20 pm, cindylarsen said:

    “Socialization”

    The myth that homeschoolers aren’t socialized is laughable. I resigned from teaching middle school to stay home and educate my own kids. Have you seen the anti-social behavior in our public schools lately? I promise that the majority of homeschoolers are far better prepared to function in public than the gang members, drug addicts, and sexual “experimenters” within the average 8th grade classroom!

73. #73
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:21 pm, RaisedRight said:

    I would like to know what these fuzzy math programs teach about money. I worked one summer in the concessions stand at a drive-in theater and went mad dealing with my coworkers who couldn’t count change. One register would calculate it for you, but on the other that function was broken. So people would actually use a pencil and paper at the register to figure out a customer’s change. I can tell you, movie goers do not have the patience for that. It was sad, these were teenagers who couldn’t figure out how to count change back to a person if they used a 10-spot to pay for their $6.33 snack.

74. #74
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:26 pm, Miss Ladybug said:

    Innismir~

    How long ago were you in engineering school? I think things are changing for the better for those who homeschool - it’s becoming much more mainstream, and, as patrick said, there are groups of like-minded people getting together to socialize their children. One of my best friends, who is currently finishing up her doctoral thesis in music, came to teach voice for a time at IMWA (who has since expanded their mission) to homeschooled students. The parents of these children made a point of ensuring their children “played well with others”…

75. #75
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pm, Alphonse said:

    Regular math can be dumbed down also. A student bragged to me about how easy calculus was, which was far from my recollection, but when I looked at his textbook I could see why.

76. #76
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:29 pm, Innismir said:

    cindylarsen

    As a product of public schools, I resemble that remark…

    Seriously though, despite the we publicized group of kids that seem to always make the “hard hitting investigative reports” on the 10 o’clock news, there are plenty of kids who are neither “gang members, drug addicts, and sexual experimenters”. They just don’t make good headlines.

    I am not saying that home schooling == anti-social behavior, it just seems to correlate very well with it, mostly due to parents who wholly concentrate on education.

77. #77
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:32 pm, patrick said:

    Innismir,

    I agree there are some like that out there; however, the most quickly growing segment of home schoolers are those dissatisfied with public, and in some cases, private schools.

    As Hayek conveys in his liberty quote:
    “Liberty not only means that the individual has both the opportunity and the burden of choice; it also means that he must bear the consequences of his actions and will receive praise or blame for them. Liberty and responsibility are inseparable.”

    In your case, they parents failed in their mandate of responsibility. I can give many examples of schools (several different “teachers”) producing whole crops of functionally illiterate, entitlement thugs ungrateful for the myriad opportunities available.

    I will stop there… I am sure everyone can see where I could go with that. You cannot condemn any group for the actions of a few. I believe the NEA is quite a bit more than a few.

    It all goes back to who is responsible for your children: You, or the Nanny State. If I am not responsible for their successs or failure, the Nanny State gets to make all the choices. I want a world where my children can actually grow up and not get stuck in some perpetually petulant teenage gray area…

78. #78
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:33 pm, Dimsdale said:

    Oh, the problem has been around for a while, probably stemming from “new math” and other, feel good, “esteem building” methods.

    Boston University has to maintain a College of General Studies (a.k.a Crayon, glue and scissors; formerly the College of Basic Studies, or as it was derisively known, coloring book school) to get ill prepared students up to speed with the rest if the enrolled students. The school was created to make up for deficiencies in student education, something we are see worsening with this “everyday math” hooey.

    I teach at a small Northeast college, and it is appalling to see how poorly educated many of the students are. And, frighteningly, many are planning to be educators!!

    I am planning to apply for an alternative path to certification to teach science in high school, but, apparently, my Ph.D. is insufficient for acceptance to the program. I have to get my 30+ year old SAT scores to prove my worthiness to teach in the state schools!!

    I would laugh if I weren’t crying….

79. #79
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:34 pm, Eclectic said:

    That video is seriously making me ill. The poor rising generation…

80. #80
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:35 pm, Miss Ladybug said:

    franksalterego~

    I would say the answer is “black”, and the reason for the question has something to do with teaching patterns. Although that question seems silly to an adult, it does try to get to the point of being able to recognize a pattern, something that is a math concept: If 1 black ant and 2 red crabs, then 1 red ant and 2 black crabs. Being able to recognize patterns helps to develop the brains logic functions…

81. #81
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:36 pm, Innismir said:

    Miss Ladybug

    How long ago were you in engineering school?

    Class of 2003. Ugh. 5 Years. I’m starting to get old.

    I think things are changing for the better for those who homeschool - it’s becoming much more mainstream, and, as patrick said, there are groups of like-minded people getting together to socialize their children.

    Let’s hope. There might be hope yet.

    Of course, an interesting conundrum is how many of those kids can/will actually try and reform the “existing system”, as it were. Rather then point out that there are severe issues with the public education system, which there are, how can it be fixed?

    (Added bonus: Don’t use “school choice” or “vouchers” in the solution. They merely transfer the existing problem over to the “better” schools that people choose.)

82. #82
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:38 pm, Innismir said:

    Dimsdale:

    Boston University has to maintain a College of General Studies (a.k.a Crayon, glue and scissors; formerly the College of Basic Studies, or as it was derisively known, coloring book school) to get ill prepared students up to speed with the rest if the enrolled students.

    Wait, isn’t all of BU like that?

    Northeastern U baby! Go Huskies! Wooooo! ;D

83. #83
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:42 pm, cindylarsen said:

    patrick

    Well said.

    Innismir

    Sterotypes can be found in both areas. At the end of the day, parents must decide what is best for their child. I have seen the public school system at its best and worst. Unfortunately, the worst is becoming the norm. Our children are becoming producst of “It Takes a Village.” Taught to be dependant not independant. Whole language, fuzzy math, team teaching, group work are all techniques that promote a the whole not the individual. Our children are learning to rely on others, not themselves. The result, rely on the gov’t. not on yourself.

84. #84
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:42 pm, Mister P said:

    The boy was suspended for three days this month for allegedly committing a “hate crime” by using the expression “brown people.”
    This in Glendale Arizona (and I use to pay taxes there).
    Tell me again what the purpose of “public school” is?

85. #85
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:43 pm, Innismir said:

    patrick:

    I agree there are some like that out there; however, the most quickly growing segment of home schoolers are those dissatisfied with public, and in some cases, private schools.

    Like I said with Miss Ladybug, let’s hope. Perhaps I’m now the old coot who can only say “back in my day…” or perhaps I got the extra-unsocial kids, as engineering isn’t the best major to run into social butterflies.

    Only time will tell.

    *shrug*

86. #86
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:47 pm, Miss Ladybug said:

    One of the reasons I decided to go into teaching is that I refuse to abandon the public education system to the left. The education system has gotten where it is because that’s an area where “the left” has gravitated, while “the right” has gravitated to more entrepreneurial pursuits. Yes, I could make more money if I hadn’t decided to change careers, but I’ve also learned that money isn’t everything. We need to figure out how to get more “right-minded” people into education - the children stuck in bad schools without anyone at home who can help (can’t afford private school, and not equipped to homeschool (i.e. - can’t teach what you don’t already know) shouldn’t be abandoned to that left-dominated arena.

87. #87
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:50 pm, calamityville said:

    dem playbook page 1: Keep the kids dumb and they are more likely to vote democrat in the future.

88. #88
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm, RaisedRight said:

    Innismir -

    I would say that the people you are talking about don’t lack social skills because they were home schooled, but rather because they are engineers.

    Honestly, no offense intended to you, but my husband works for Rockwell Collins, surrounded by engineers (although his major was actually chemistry) and there seems to be a higher percentage of awkward people without social skills in the engineering world than I see in the general public. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

    Plus, I went to public schools with plenty of people who didn’t have the greatest social skills. I think if a parent takes on home schooling, they need to ensure that their kids do have interaction outside of the home. So the behaviors of the children reflect on the parents, not the concept of home schooling as a whole.

89. #89
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:51 pm, Innismir said:

    cindylarsen:

    I wouldn’t classify “group work” with “relying on others.” While yes, you only do a portion of the work, interfacing with other people and learning to act within a portion of the whole is an important skill within “everyday life.”

    But, perhaps I’m thinking more of group work I did in college rather then my younger years. I just feel that learning to work within a group is something that is important.

90. #90
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:54 pm, Boomer said:

    When I was a kid my Mom invested in math flash cards for addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division problems. She worked with us kids after school until we got it straight. We did the same thing with our son, which appears to have just missed being really dumbed down only by a few years. Thanks again Mom and Dad for responsible parenting, rule setting, and for providing a solid foundation allowing my development into a fully functioning rational adult able to contribute to society.

    Part of this issue is parental involvement (I realize most parents are now to selfish or lazy to spend time with their kids), but this appears to be a nefarious plot by educators to continuously dumb down this country until we are more easily controlled. I can’t think of any other explanation other than they are so incompetent they are pushing this type of useless curriculum. As we used to say when I was on active duty, “those that can do those that can’t teach.”

91. #91
    On November 28th, 2007 at 2:58 pm, Miss Ladybug said:

    Boomer~

    I don’t like that “those who can, do; those who can’t, teach” - while that may be true in some cases, it