“Three reasons I can’t trust Giuliani on immigration;” Plus: Huckabee’s open-borders roots are showing again
Craig Nelsen of ProjectUSA recounts his battles with the open-borders Giuliani administration.
***
Meantime, Mike Huckabee gets nailed on his illegal alien in-state tuition discount support.
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So … as an uninformed observer from over the pond, which is the Republican Presidential candidate that most people support? We seem to get loads of news about the Democrats and their candidates over here.
Giuliani is like all other politicans - they spew what the consumer (voters) want to hear. What we have to decide on this issue and his pledge to appoint constructist judges is if we believe his assertions — I don’t believe any of them. It comes down to lesser of the evils again….
Romney, Rudy, and Thompson are the media darlings, Huckabee seems to be gaining. I don’t trust any of them on Illegal Immigration.
pgtips, what a shock that the dems get more media play over there…not
support is growing in NH (early primary state) for Senator John McCain i heard recently…We’ve also got a near-fronter runner, the uh, Mormon, Mitt Romney among many folks… The unfortunately surnamed ex-Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee is also kind of on a roll…
a few others…
Fixed it for ya, Jim.
oh, yeah, how could i have forgot about Fred…
Oops, sorry, fixed it for ya “JOHN”
“Frankly, I’d rather vote for the cop who came out and knocked on my window. We need a president who has our backs—not Mexico’s, China’s, or Korea’s backs, not Europe’s, not Israel’s, and not Iraq’s, not Wal-Mart’s, not Enron’s, not Goldman-Sachs’, not the RNC’s, the DNC’s, not any PAC’s, just ours.” C.N.
& just below that:
“Why Ron Paul’s libertarianism shouldn’t scare anyone”
Exit…stage left.
all politicians say what they need to in campaigns to get the vote. pathetic, that it requires a crystal ball to really know which candidate will keep his/her promises. well.. we know ’she’ won’t keep her promises beyond cramming socialized healthcare down our throats. i just knew that guiliani was hillary-lite. and a vote for huckabee in the primary is a vote for guiliani in the national.. sad.
The only viable conservative candidate I trust on illegal immigration is Duncan Hunter. Tancredo is good, but I don’t think he stands a snowballs chance in hell. Thompson still has some convincing to do as far as his position on this issue, but all other front runners are RINOs on this very important issue. In the Boomer household this is the number one campaign issue.
honestly, i don’t think i care what someone’s policy was pre-9/11. our focus on the issue of immigration were not the same as they are today. today, the issue isn’t just about the numbers, but who is crossing our border AND how to stop it.
the question is: does he understand why policies such as NYC’s undermine the security of the nation; and why one federal cohesive policy is necessary.
i’m not looking for someone who’s always had all of the answers correct 120% of the time. i’m looking for someone who can be self reflective and admit to having it wrong sometime, and commit to solving it.
Only three reasons?
I like Freds Immigration stand.
freds
While the others were arguing over gardeners at mansions he was the only grown up talking.
It always comes back to who can beat Hillary or Obama.
Immigration could be a tremendously important topic to emphasize for the Republican candidate to get a number of votes. Candidates like Giuliani and Huckabee just won’t be able to do that. Their stances are far too liberal for me to get behind. The only two candidates who are both strong on immigration enforcement and stand any chance at all of winnning the Republican nomination are Romney and Thompson (maybe).
I agree, AJ. Fred talks sense.
Don’t be surprised if the “darlings” of the media are not the candidates when the smoke all clears. That goes for both parties.
Nothing the MSM (e.g. NYT, LAT, WaPo, alphabet TV networks and cable, etc.) would like better than to determine the Republican nominee through their “coverage” and manipulation.
Each of the Republican candidates running for President has specific faults and shortcomings. The voters of the Republican Party need to put aside personal agendas and concentrate on selecting nominees that can win the upcoming elections. That means compromising in some area of personal beliefs and values because none of the candidates can be considered a “one size fits all” on every issue.
Wow, I’m sure that the Guilianiites will call it another ‘hit piece’ for pointing out the facts of his record again.
If Rudy wins the R nomination, it’ll be tough to figure out who to support. I’m thinking that a lot of R Americans are thinking the same thing.
Thanks for sharing MM.
That was a weak story. And I see Hot air is airing more let’s knock Rudy down with a dumb video about Rudy using the police for protection. Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that he had put mafia families put behind bars? Is that feasible? Don’t you think there are still mafia members still after him or no one has thought of that? Looks like Hot Air doesn’t like Rudy. I agree with someone else on here, or was it Hot Air, Duncan Hunter looks good but he has about 1 percent in the polls. This is a tough election.
But I don’t go with someone saying that Rudy is Hillary light, not even close.
Pols should not be trusted. Don’t listen to what they say - look back and see what they did:
Guiliani- pro-choice, gay marriage, philanderer (if he would lie and cheat on two wives, what makes you think he wouldn’t screw you for a buck?), open-borders sanctuary mayor.
Romney - pro-choice, open borders Mass liberal doing a Kerry imitation. Believes he’s going to be a god.
Huckabee - tax & spend open borders liberal.
Hunter and Tancredo have stellar conservative credentials based on what they have done & not just what they are saying. They have been in the forefront of the battle to secure the border for many years. This (& heterosexual marriage) is the one issue where there is broad national consensus - yet neither can get any traction. Why? Media blackout?
bloghooligan #11
I agree whole heartedly.
Whoever is nominated on the Republican side, we should support. All of this stuff before the nomination is just so much BS! If a democrat gets in, do you think we conservatives will have any influence? We at least have a chance with a Republican president who would want to be re-elected!
Whoever gets the Republican nomination, they will still have an up-Hillary battle.
So far as I’ve seen the choices of a conservative who can actually beat her are slim at best.
But I’m going to vote anyway.
Comprehensive Immigration Reform MUST start with closing the borders.
There is a lot of dishonesty about Huckabee’s stance on illegal immigration. He has NEVER been FOR illegal immigration! He has MANAGED the illegal immigration problem created by government at the FEDERAL level in SPITE of the federal government’s REFUSAL to do anything about the problem itself!
Quit this dishonesty! Huckabee has ALWAYS made it clear…SECURE the borders first. THEN…and ONLZY then, will we be able to deal with the illegals already here!
That is SOUND judgement! It show’s his abiolity to accomplish things DESPITE the odds.
He left Arkansas a MUCH better state than when he took charge here…despite INTENSE opposition from a legislature FULL of Democrats.
The liberals of Arkansas HATE Mike Huckabee!
Get a clue, folks!
I thought the story was more about police being a taxi service for his g/f, CRU.
After suffering through eight years of “Wimp” junior anyone but Hillary, Obama or Edwards will do.
I live here in Iowa and I am having a hard time trying to figure out who to vote for. Tancredo makes some sense, but he is at the bottom of the polls. We will once again have an election in which we pick the LEAST worst candidate.
I’d say Huckabee is to be charged most the responsibility on that account, HHBilly. What he and the other candidates need to do is take a “no sanctuaries, no amnesty” pledge. Huckabee would seem, at best, to be a rerun of the Bush amnesty giveaway attempts.
I don’t know of any candidate D or R who has staked a claim to be “for illegal immigration” - even if they are. They’re not that dumb.
The new mantra of the Amnesty crowd is “secure the borders first, then decide what to do with those who are here”. What conservatives want is “secure the borders now and do whatever is necessary to expell illegal aliens from our country”.
Huckabee has the same mindset as Bush, McCain and the Democrats. Appear to secure the border, grant amnesty to all who snuck into the country and sweep the whole mess under the rug.
Huckabee’s campaign killer will be the same as McCain’s. If they has the slightest clue, they would both be frontrunners.
Issues for a politician are like clothes. You dress for the weather. When the weather get colder, you pull out a coat. Warmer, show more skin. It is in the nature of politics any single issue to be almost always a poor indicator of what will happen, simply because they ALL change to suit.
It is more useful to look at what they will not do. When Rudy told the Sheik where to stuff the 10 million, he got my vote…
I know people from NY that were there before Rudy and tell me the difference he made. And these people are not conservative. I am more concerned with what someone has done than what they say they will do.
I looked at the video at hotair, maybe I’m not looking at it right, but Huck seemed to be making his point about the tuition stuff — children of illegals who had gone through the Ark school system would be elibible for the same tuition breaks, under challenged scholarship criteria, as any other student, provided they were academically eligible as well.
And as for that nonsense about out of state students getting a tuition break, what state does that? Out of state students always pay more. So why should that even be a point?
Tough enforcement will remove the illegal immigration problem. Just look at Oklahoma - they passed tough illegal immigration law, it’s being enforced, and the illegals are leaving the state. Take this to a national level - the illegals will “self-deport” if they can’t get a job…
I don’t trust Huckabee on illegal immigration - and I lived in Arkansas while he was governor. I don’t trust Guiliani, either. I’m still undecided on who I will vote for.
Interesting bit I saw on Fox News Channel this morning. They were talking about the election, and the new polling numbers, and their guest for the Dem side was Bob Beckel. They asked him about a McCain/Huckabee ticket. He doesn’t like that idea, because he thinks that would make it very tough for the Dems in the general election. Thoughts?
I’d like to see Tancredo and or Hunter get more support. So far I haven’t heard anything negative about either of them. But the media darlings are Mitt, Rudy, & Huck. So they are the candidates being pushed. Even the debates are nothing than a media forum for those three. Who else gets to talk? Like we should believe the media????? Sheesh.
Yup - when push comes to shove, they can’t be trusted. To me Huckabee is the scariest of them all in that regard, his attitude and history with illegals is a major problem. e.g.
“In 2005, Huckabee called un-Christian, un-American and irresponsible a bill introduced by state Sen. Jim Holt that would have denied state benefits to illegal immigrants and would have required valid proof of citizenship to register to vote.”
Mexican consulate deal dogs Huckabee campaign
postaldog~
The thing with tuition breaks for illegals: THEY SHOULDN’T BE HERE, REGARDLESS OF HOW THEY GOT HERE. If they were born here, until the 14th Amendment is interpreted differently, they are American citizens, and legal residents of the state, no problem.
Why the problem with out of state students paying more? They, at least, are US citizens. There is something (equal protection clause?) that says you can’t give preferential treatment to non-citizens over citizens. If you give tuition breaks to illegal aliens who attended Arkansas state schools, you would have to also give those same breaks to someone from Texas or California, but a lot of states who do give illegals tuition breaks don’t do that.
During Rudy’s time, the entire country experienced the greatest economic expansion since the industrial revolution. Rudy was fortunate to be Mayor at that time. Again, his support is from non-conservatives because there aren’t any conservatives in NY (other than wealthy wall streeters who don’t want more taxes). . . why would the party want someone from there on the top of the ticket?
Rudy would be a D in any other city. He’s just like Clinton because he takes credit for a lot of stuff that he had nothing to do with. If it wasn’t for 9/11 any thought of his running for President (or even Mayor of NY again) would be laughable. If he was a D, everyone here and on HotAir would be railing against his credentials based on what he did.
ABC
ABC
ABC
ABC
ABC
ANYONE BUT CLINTON
If Billary is the candidate come next November, I will have no problem holding my nose and voting for whoever has the R next to his name.
If Obama is the candidate then vote your conscience or don’t vote. After 4 years of Obama’s ineptitude, even the dems will vote him out in 2012.
1) Note different conservativesRus here.
2) #20 riccola - good summary although you forgot McCain - open borders, tax and spend, gang of 14, government intervention RINO.
2) Any candidate from any party who doesn’t fully understand the concept of sovereign nation doesn’t deserve to be president. I can’t give a candidate a pass for what they thought pre 9/11 vs. after. Suddenly changing their mind after 9/11 just shows their lack of foresight. Do we really want “leaders” who can’t see what will happen? What would be the next thing they lack foresight into?
oops - double 2) - how about 3)
Wellll Mr. All Knowing, Great Soothsayer, conservativesRus, who did have the foresight to predict 9/11? You? Why aren’t you running for president if all it takes is the ability to forsee the future!
Vince - I can’t predict the future - but I can predict that coddling illegal behavior breeds more illegal behavior. I can predict that when you have an enemy, they will seek to exploit ANY weakness you have. Apparently Rudy claims that he couldn’t see then that encouraging ILLEGAL activity wouldn’t breed bad things. I’m not suggesting he could foresee exactly what bad things, I’m just suggesting, it doesn’t take much insight to see that some bad things could occur.
I saw that…kinda ruined a good thing. I didn’t even bother to click thru.
LadyBug, I don’t know where you went to college, perhaps it’s just a Florida thing, but down here, if you are an out-of-state student, you pay a higher tuition. I just assumed it was the same everywhere. And it is not a tuition break for illegals, we’re talking about the children of illegals, who didn’t have a choice in coming here.
Why not give them the chance to get an education and become citizens? Isn’t that what we want? There was no break being offered that was not available to any legal citizen of Arkansas.
purplepeep I don’t know if I would be putting a lot of stock into the ravings of a racist like Joe McCutchen. Huck has not distanced himself one bit from the consulate deal that you are so worked up about. It might just have been on the up and up.
Mister P #26: That is the beauty of the primary system. You can go in and vote for whoever you want the first time around. Get “YOUR” candidate on the ticket. With primaries, it should be much more voting for who you want and less of choosing the for lesser of the evils.
Purplepeep said:
“I don’t know of any candidate D or R who has staked a claim to be “for illegal immigration” - even if they are. They’re not that dumb.”
Then why does Michelle write, “Huckabee’s open-borders roots are showing again.”?
Huckabee didn’t create or even contribute to the illegal immigration problem. He worked on the problems the Feds created for the good of the State he governed.
That’s what I mean…dishonesty is clouding the glaring fact that Huckabee has always been …and remains…the best candidate for POTUS in this current field.
Why are the “honest” pundits on the far-to-extreme right being so obviously dishonest about Huckabee’s record as Governor?
It’s harmful to the party.
As far as pledges go…why don’t we all pledge to NOT vote for a third party-candidate and support whoever wins the nomination. Why don’t we get behind this candidate who is clearly drawing people to him in droves…even Reagan Democrats?
This insane loyalty to candidates like Romney, Rudy, Thompson is beginning to resemble the loyalty of Paulites, for goodness’ sake!
Romney clearly is frustrated during debates. Rudy is clearly the Republican Bill Clinton (which is why his numbers are diving nationally…not because of finances…because of sexcapades -in-secret and the cover-ups involved)! Thompson’s dead in the water as he has been since he DIDN’T enter the race on July 4th.
Paul…well…we know what Paul is…and we know how his supporters conduct themselves online.
I’m seeing a real similarity between Paulites and MittRudFredites!
Listen…Huckabee/McCain ‘08 is the perfect ticket.
1) It will insure that McCain will not be in the Senate (except for tie-breaking).
2) It will insure that McCain will never be POTUS…he’ll be too damned old in ‘16).
3) Military intelligence could continue to do its interrogation work covertly while McCain overtly voices the U.S.’s condemnation of torture!
Huckabee/McCain in ‘08…the perfect ticket!
postaldog, #43
That’s the entire point. Why should a U.S. citizen from Mississippi pay a higher rate for an Arkansas college than an illegal alien, who should not even be here.
The whole “don’t punish the children for their parents crimes” doesn’t change the fact that they don’t belong here.
That’s a common misconception. There are people running for the GOP nomination at present who make W look like a cross between Reagan and Goldwater. No, not anyone will do.
Hey, boys and girls, the only Repub candidate who has not changed his border-enforcement tune in the last seven years or so is Tom Tancredo.
And he’s been jacketed by the MSM as a racist, hate-filled, Islamophobic, fearmongering nincompoop.
In fact, he’s far from it. He’s an intelligent man of profound substance who is passionately pro-American and will not sell out his principles for a vote, unlike a couple or three of the Repub candidates have already done.
The best clue to Tancredo’s mettle is that he was forbidden from darkening the doorstep of the Bush White House when this renewed illegal alien battle began several years ago.
For what it’s worth. That’s my two-cents worth. I’m voting for Tom Tancredo.
On December 3rd, 2007 at 12:19 pm, hunkahillbilly said:
That sounds an awful lot like Rudy’s excuse. And as with Giuliani, it glosses over the fact that he said a lot of things which read as if they came from the mouth of Jimmy Carter or Ted Kennedy. For instance -
Or this, in a speech to “The Race” -
The guy as just as much a social liberal as Bush and Giuliani.
I don’t believe that Hunter has changed his tune on this, but I’m willing to be shown wrong if you have the evidence.
It is if you’re a big fan of amnesty. Otherwise, not so much.
FLENSER:
You are correct. I forgot about Mr. Hunter, and he’s an excellent candidate.
Mea Culpa.
Thanks for pointing out my omission.
Take it from a New York conservative - New Yorkers are some of the dumbest people on the planet. Why do you think it’s Berkely East? These people are completely blind to anything which happens outside the borders of Manhattan. They consider Queens to be the boondocks, and Kansas to be as alien as Outer Mongolia.
#46 Concerned Citizen
But they, as in children of illegals, are already here. So your point is to deny them education? These kids have spent anywhere from 3 to all 12 years in the Arkansas school system, learned English, and did well enough to qualify for a scholarship, and your position is to round them up at graduation and deport them? That’s just nonsense. Let them apply for citizenship and take advantage of the opportunities available to every other school child in the state.
Get an education, get a job, get off welfare, pay your taxes, isn’t that what we, as Republicans, are always pushing for? But your solution is, if not deportation, then letting these children drift into that shadow economy that drains the country more every day. It is counter-productive, don’t you see that?
#45: You say Huckabee did what he did for the illegals for the good of his state. I’m sorry, that doesn’t cut it. How about for the good of the country. No he didn’t say “I’m for illegal immigration” - rather he supported it by his actions.
ThackerAgency#36 My point being that Rudy is a doer not a talker.
Perfect for what might I ask.
Maybe. The problem is the things Giuliani does are almost all liberal. Ted Kennedy is a doer also, but I’m sure not going to vote for the man.
It is, for Americans. I don’t want non-Americans to do any of these things, in America. I want them to do these things in their own country. Why are non-Americans collecting welfare here in the first place?
I wish I could agree with you here, but considering that the field includes McCain and Giuliani, Huckabee looks pretty average.
I am for Tancredo or Hunter. We had an election with
Perry running for reelection and promising to deal with
illegal immigration. Once elected, the first thing we
hear is, “Illegal immigration is NOT overtaxing our
healthcare and education systems in TX. We have
plenty of money to pay for this extra expense.” That is
not the answer. We shouldn’t have to pay for this extra
expense! They have completely ruined the border area
of TX and are flying the Mexican flag above the flag of
the US and TX, and our previously “hard on illegal
immigration” governor is now soft on it. This is what I am afraid of in the coming election. I am just
a bit cynical when I hear that a candidate will do
something to stem the flow of Illegal immigration
because there is a very real chance that after the
election we will hear that we have enough money to
pay for any drain on “entitlements” used by illegals
that they are not entitled to use in the first place.
Just want to make sure I understand you here. Voting for a person with an R after their name is more important than the substance of their being? Please keep in mind that several of the people with R after their name now campainging behave more like D than many of the people with D after their name.
Further, the “threat” of “defecting” certainly ought to help the candidates listen to me. If they think (because I’ve told them so) that they have a pass, and can pander more and more to liberal positions, and it won’t matter to me, why should they care what I think. My threat might be the only thing I have to keep them honest.
Show me someone who is worthy of my vote!
Mike “the liberal
HuckabeeHillbilly” is a “moderate,” good old boy Republican EXACTLY like President Bush, and people are falling for it. If elected, he will be another “compassionate conservative.”He actually wanted to give all illegals in the state in-state tuition. How is that different than a Democrat?
The MSM is very enthusiastic about Huckabee because if he gets the nomination, Hillary or Obama will for certain be the next president. He is one of the only Republicans behind Hillary in a hypothetical matchup. Let’s not let the MSM trick us into nominating Huckabee.
If I may buttress that statement with a snippet from Savage’s “Liberalism is a Mental Disorder”:
The madness has got to stop.
“Listen…Huckabee/McCain ‘08 is the perfect ticket.”
perfect for the Democrat Party (20+ million new instant voters), the welfare system (gets bigger) and Tyson Foods (of course).
Having read up on Sen. Tom Tancredo, he seems like a pretty solid guy. Why isn’t he in the news more?
ajmontana thanks for posting the link to Fred’s stance. I now add him to the “good guy list” on immigration sounds like he has been listening to the electorate.
Duncan Hunter is still the best candidate for the Republican ticket. He’s tough on immigration and a true fiscal conservative. The only reason he’s not getting much attention is that he does not have that much money. If the conservative AM talk radio hosts just talked about his record more, I sure his numbers (polls) would start to take off.
Sweggie,
Also, if an illegal has three kids in public schools, for his or her job “no Americans will do,” we are paying about $30000 a year to them just to educate their children($10,000 per year for each student, which is about average these days for a school district to educate a student).
It is probably even more than that because ESL teachers have very low student to teacher ratios.
LOL, you’re boxing at shadows there, PDog. Didn’t mention him, but I did quote Huckabee’s problems. Reread my comment and quote. He’s against forbidding illegals to get government benefits meant for US citizens only and against forbidding illegals to vote in US elections.
More shadow boxing. Didn’t mention that either. But now that you mention it Huckabee does indeed seem to have more than the lions share of problems on this issue. I’m just not as willing to cross my fingers and hope he’s not dishonest on all these matters. Especialy given his record.
I think there were/are 3 truly enelectable candidates. Brownback (RIP), Tancredo, Paul. If it weren’t for Hunter, then Tanc could possibly pull out of unelectable status.
Let us boycott all Hispanic commerce.
The pols are hysterically afraid of losing Hispanic votes, so merely voicing opinion and waiting for corrupt politicians like Bush, Kennedy, Durbin, McCain, Clinton, Obama, et.al., to conform to rule of law is a dead end strategy, so the people will have to take matters into their own hands if anything is to be done.
Hunkahillbilly simply must be inside Huck’s campaign - there is no other reason such garbage could be regurgitated. Please, all, look into the Mexican Consulate “deal” he made - now he says so that “another state” wouldn’t reap the financial benefits of it. Look into his lies as he fed us Arkansans his can of beans about using Medicaid funds for pregnant illegal women. He swore that it would only amount to a “few” people - ’cause once again it is the “Christian” thing to do as these children would be US citizens - “can’t punish the children for the illegal acts of their parents” - and anyone that disagreed with him were racists and “drank a different Jesus juice”. Look at what Arkansas is currently spending annually for this program - in the millions, of course - which HE KNEW would happen. He refused to allow the Arkansas State Police to be trained in the 287G program - “they have better things to do” than chasing gardeners and maids. Keep in mind that I40 through Arkansas is a well known drug route (obviously a great route to smuggle people as well) - just happens to be patrolled by ASP. With these scholarships to illegals - during the time he was trying to pass this bill - my daughter, who had scored very high on her ACT, as well as good grades - applied and was accepted at a prestigious Journalism school in a surrounding state. Although she wanted to attend that school very, very much - they did not offer her in-state tuition so we could not afford to send her there. So, she attended the school she could afford - working full-time to help pay her expenses. So what the Huckster was offering was to provide citizens of a foreign country, in this State and Country illegally, a benefit that he would not extend to American students from another state. Because you see - students from out-of-state must pay that higher fee. Illegals can and do attend community colleges. Always remember though - that if, and when they receive their “diploma” - they still are not legally able to work here in America. Ask the Huckster also about all of the gifts he and his wife received while he was Governor (including full wardrobes) and what he did on his way out the door….crushed hard-drives of all of the computers in his office - kinda makes you wonder why. Also - don’t forget to ask him about his son, just a few months ago, being arrested at the Little Rock airport for trying to board a plane with a loaded gun. He just “forgot” that he had it in his carryon.
“I don’t know of any candidate D or R who has staked a claim to be “for illegal immigration” - even if they are. They’re not that dumb.”
You’re not making sense with that question, HHBilly. But I would suppose that since this been a longtime problem, it’s a note that Huckabee just keeps leaving droppings. i.e. his no-borders notions have always been an issue - in the past, present and it’s not likely to stop in the future. Something like “There he goes again.”
If you mean POTUSofM, I think you’re onto something. Gotta get Felipe Calderón on board with that one though,I don’t think he’s ready to quit just yet.
Know, whatcha mean, HHBilly. Almost as bad as insane Huckabee loyalty. Ah well, that’s life.
Giuliani asks do you believe your own eyes or do you believe what I say. People of this thread seem to be those who believe their own eyes. Huckabee’s surge has got to be a MSM or some such con-job. Would not Huckabee/Ron Paul be a ticket and would not the MSM love such.
#71 purplepeep
No shadow boxing here my friend, you are the one that put the link to the story about the consulate at the bottom of your post. I assumed it was there to support your position. Maybe it just slipped in by accident.
That story is based almost entirely on attacks by Joe McCutchen on Gov. Huckabee. And none of them have any traction. So what’s the point other than to smear the Gov.?
As far as “his share of problems”, what does that mean? That there were people that disagreed with his decisions? Holy cow, stop the presses! Why that’s totally unprecedented!
And “Especially given his record?” What record? On what? That’s the whole point of this post, folks mis-interpreting Huck’s actions to defend campaigning against him.
flenser#58
I disagree with your comparison Teddy to Rudy. I will support the Republican nominee. I like many things about all of them and don’t like things about all of them but, there is nothing about any Democratic nominee that I like. None of them would be good for this country.
Somebody spends too much time reading the Southern Poverty Law Center newsletter.
On what basis? Can you elaborate for me on the differences you think exist between them on the immigration issue?
What do you like about Giuliani? And please, no answers like “he’s a great leader”. What specific policy positions of his do you think merit his being made the GOP presidential nominee?
I won’t. I will support the conservative candidate, regardless of his party affiliation. If the GOP runs a liberal, I won’t vote for him.
flenser #81 - There are lots of us who won’t.
I find it amazing how many people here espouse the “Turn your brain off and just pull the R lever” position. Conservatism is the thinking persons position. To quit thinking, is anti-conservative. Therefore, just pulling the R lever, is not going against our very being.
oops - is not -> is in last line.
Au contraire - and incorporated in the “air fisticuffs” is mucho bobbing and weaving. I very specifically noted two things Huckabee has major, if not politically terminal, problems with: one, he fought against forbidding government freebies to illegals and ,two, he is against forbidding non-US citizens to vote in American elections. Huckabee is even more terrified than you to address these positions of his. McCain certainly found out ya can’t tapdance and rope-a-dope for long on illegals. But maybe Huckabee actually thinks he can get away with it.
Now, Huckabee could run as VP with Hillary. But then again, she might find his stance on illegals too far-left for her taste.
Likely so, it’s standard patter for those who want no borders and demand blanket amnesty to attack those who believe in the law as “racists”. Remember Imperial Sen. Lindsay GrahAm-nesty? (”We’re gonna tell the bigots to shut up!”)
DesertLover said:
Ah, but what issue are you willing to compromise in order to get something more important that you really want? Everybody has their own hot button issue. Personally I’d be willing to horse-trade and give the libs gay marriage in exchange for a national school voucher system. And while ending pre-natal infanticide would be a good thing, to me it is far far less important than creating an airtight border with only legal points of entry AND/OR overturning the Kelo decision. For some, abortion is the ONLY issue and trumps all other concerns.
postaldog said:
Because by definition, children who happen to be illegal aliens ARE out-of-state students. It’s a question about the lack of fairness of it all, and it speaks volumes about the former governor’s character that he would still defend this policy.
Now that being said, it IS within our national interest to promote immigration by skilled and educated individuals. It would be more fair to offer these students legal non-immigrant student visas to attend accredited 2-yr and 4-yr colleges, and if they graduate after paying the same rate as international students they would be eligible for immigrant work visas. This would benefit both our country AND the illegal immigrant community that right now has a culture that simply does not value education.
#54 postaldog
Don’t you see that they are taking the place of a U.S. citizen at the taxpayer’s expense?
They should be grateful for the education they have received thusfar considering they are not supposed to be here. If we listen to the likes of you, their parents, siblings, and extended family will have a foot in the door towards staying here. Will they all be getting an education and contributing also? Or will they be using our social services and bleeding us for all we’re worth.
It’s not like they are trying escape persecution like the Cubans. They just want to get all they can from us. Where do you think their extra money goes? They sent $21 billion a year back to Mexico. That’s an additional $21 billion that’s not being spent here contributing towards our economic growth.
Don’t delude yourself into some noble purpose. These people are leeches, plain and simple.
Somebody may have already posted this, but I’m on the run, so just in case…
More fun Huck facts
Wow, leeches! Isn’t that a bit extreme? You mean every single child of an illegal immigrant is here with only one purpose, to bleed us dry? Where have I heard that before?
As to that newsletter, never seen it before. I took a page from our intrepid host and googled the guy quoted again and again in the link that peep bobbed and weaved onto the bottom of his post. I thought that was good form here.
And you’re right peep the Gov. did fight to allow basic health care and other humanitarian services to illegals. Rotten bastard! I guess he should have let them suffer. The voting thing is bogus though. His point was that immigration status checks should not have fallen in the lap of the driver’s license bureau.
Bad demagoguery my friend.
postaldog. If they want to come here legally, then I’m all for helping provide for their health and wellbeing.
IF WE INVITE THEM, yes, if not NO.
I guess however, you think anybody and everybody is welcome to come use your kitchen, your utilities, your yard, all they want. I presume you would say no, only those you invite.
Please explain the difference.
At the Southern Poverty Law Center?
So did I. And the first thing which came up was the lefties at the Southern Poverty Law Center calling him a racist, a charge which you felt comfortable in echoing.
LOL, the “turning a vice into a virtue” ploy, eh? Reminds me of the joke about the lawyer defending a client who had axe-murdered his wife and stuffed her body parts in a suitcase. Lawyer says “yeah, but he’s a great luggage packer”.
Again, like McCain, Huckabee is his own worst enemy on illegals. Even he confesses he’s not the best person to enforce the law. And that’s a major problem, cuz if you wanna be President starting with day one you swear to uphold the law, not subvert it.
No, he SHOULD have encouraged them to return to their own countries. Providing them with better services than they enjoy at home has the opposite effect.
And it is not the role of Huckabee, or any other politician, to be noble and generous with the tax payers dollars. If he wants to do this sort of thing he needs to leave politics and work full time with a charitable group like the Salvation Army.
The left thinks that it’s the role of government to play Santa Clause to every needy person in the world. Until recently, the right did not think this way.
postaldog,
Nice way to take something out of context. Wanna go ahead and call me a racist now or wait for a few more posts?
My point is that the illegals are here to make money, not become a part of our country and culture. They are not escaping tyranny, they just want to make more money than they can back home. They are using the banner of political correctness to keep us from “profiling” and removing them.
We are not the world’s welfare system, nor should we be.
I like Fred’s immigration position. He believes we should first secure our borders and without secure borders we will not be able to retain our sovereignty. He recognizes that wide-open borders not only affects our economy, but our homeland security as well. We just don’t know who’s sneaking into our country in the dark of night OR in broad daylight for all that matters! Fred has never been in favor sanctuary cities and, in fact, as President he said he’ll without Federal funding from sanctuary cities/states. Fred is definitely NOT in favor of in-state tuition for children of illegal aliens. I believe he suggests cracking down on employers who hire illegals and cracking down on the sanctuary cities. Immigration is the number one issue to me. Fred is a true conservative through and through. He won’t change his stripes and try to be someone he’s not. He doesn’t have to!
Regarding Duncan Hunter, I also think he’s a good man. Perhaps Thompson/Hunter 08?
flenser#80:
Teddy never saw a tax hike he didn’t love or vote for. Rudy lowered taxes in NY, not popular with Libs. Teddy voted for Shamnesty every time in the Senate, Rudy didn’t. That’s where the real fight is.
Rudy stood face to face with Mafioso and went after them.He faced down a money waving sheik and Arafat and didn’t back down. Crime went down in The City when he was mayor and it was on the rise when he was elected.
Hillary or Obama will more than likely be the nominee for the Dems. Rudy will make it a race in the key states,NY,NJ,Ohio,PA and he has good support in the South i.e. Florida.
I am pro-life because of more personal reasons than I wish to share here but, the battle will be world terrorism, the courts and the borders for the foreseeable future of this country.
I want a winner. You asked.
#43 postaldog~
Back when I was an undergrad (pushing 20 years ago), out-of-state was more expensive, yes. Illegal immigration wasn’t the issue it is today - this was only few years after the ‘86 Amnesty that was supposed to end the problem. That only made things worse: we got all of the amnesty, none of the enforcement.
As for “the kids who didn’t have a choice”, the way proposed amnesty legislation goes to give these illegal alien children of illegal alien parents works, those kids can apply for citizenship, and then their illegal alien parents become eligible to apply for citizenship down the road. And don’t get me started on the rest of the chain migration. The point about out-of-state US citizen students still stands: states that give illegal immigrants tuition breaks do not give the same treatment to US citizens. I will not bend one iota on any flavor of amnesty until the federal government an PROVE to me that is can control our borders and enforce existing immigration law, over a period of years. A decade would be a good start. After many years of border control and full enforcement, we’ll see who is still here, and maybe then I’d be willing to give these kids a path to citizenship, so long as it applies ONLY TO THEM and not their illegal alien parents. End chain migration. Importing millions of uneducated poor people is not a good idea. Mexico and countries south need to fix their own problems so their citizens don’t feel compelled to break into OUR house. Try being an illegal in Mexico - talk about your double standards…
Trying to defend Huckabee on illegal immigration is a lost cause. He is toast on this issue alone. Unless his prediction comes true:
Duncan Hunter is the only candidate strong against illegal immigration AND talking about the existing absurd and unfair trade agreements that benefit all 100+ VAT countries while America suffers, unfair China trade practices, etc. His son, just back from serving in Afghanistan, is also running for office.
Too bad he isn’t getting much traction.
Three reasons to respond to this post:
1. Nelson is entitled to his opinion, but to assume he is 100% right and truthful and accurate and Rudy is 100% wrong and untruthful and inaccurate does nothing to further the cause of well-informed debate.
2.To compare Giuliani’s political decisions with his constituants being liberal NYC residents and Huckabee’s political decisions considering his constituants were the people of Arkansas ignores a substantial amount of political reality. You have to ask yourself what Giuliani would have done in Arkansas and the extent that Huckabee would have bent to political pressure in NYC, and in that match-up, common sense dictates that all else being equal, Huckabee comes up way short by comparison.
3. I see our pal Flenser is going on and on and this thread, but continues, after more than three weeks, to not keep his word on this thread about Giuliani:
http://michellemalkin.com/2007/11/08/the-kerik-indictment-giuliani-and-the-gop/
Flenser, to have credibility, you need to follow through on your word. hy should anyone listen to you otherwise?
See you at the other thread.