Michelle Malkin » Shopping mall horror in Omaha: 9 murdered, shooter dead

Shopping mall horror in Omaha: 9 murdered, shooter dead

By Michelle Malkin • December 5, 2007 05:22 PM

Update: A few tidbits from a tipster in the Omaha area…

The woman who was at the mall with her child is the daughter of the county attorney, Don Kleine. The shooter, Hawkins, had pending matters — Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor, Minor in Possession or Alcohol, Open Container, etc. but had not yet been arraigned.

Update: The shooter has been ID’d.

***
A nightmare situation is unfolding in Omaha, where a gunman murdered 9 people at a shopping mall before killing himself. Jim Hoft is tracking. It’s the top story on the cable nets.

If you’re in the area, keep us updated. Say a prayer for the victims. Stay tuned for more details.

***
A grenade was found at the same mall last week.

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#189033

On December 6th, 2007 at 5:00 pm, deepdiver said:

Yes it was a “gun free zone”. And I do carry a firearm almost 100% of the time, concealed or open carried depending on several factors, I avoid places and states where I cannot carry a firearm and yes I am properly trained and licensed to do so and have taken several advanced classes. Those of us who carry tend to take it quite seriously.

I have spent most of the day on various firearms forums discussing this tragic incident. In answer to babbledabble and others who question the effectiveness of citizens carrying concealed weapons in such a situation, let me ask you this: do you wear your seatbelt? Do you drive a car with airbags and crumple zones? Do you realize that those safety features do not always deploy quickly enough or effectively enough to save your or your passenger’s lives? Does that doubt mean you stop wearing seat belts and buy a 1960 Corvair because if you can’t be protected 100% why be protected at all?

None of us who carry a firearm professionally or as citizens can guess how likely it would have been that one or more of us could have been in a position to save even one life yesterday. But this is something you can bet on. If this had not been a “gun free zone” (also known as a “target rich environment if you are the bad guy looking through the scope) and there had been armed citizens in a position to even try to stop this, even at the risk of themselves, someone would have tried.

We don’t carry firearms because we are afraid. We carry them because we refuse to be afraid. We carry them because it is our God given right to defend ourselves and our societal obligation to defend our neighbor. God bless the victims and their families.
#189048

On December 6th, 2007 at 5:14 pm, mpChops said:

Imagine my surprise when it was another thrill killing punk… a highly prized product of our liberal schools, and social system!

Were you really surprised?
#189059

On December 6th, 2007 at 5:25 pm, mpChops said:

We carry them because it is our God given right to defend ourselves and our societal obligation to defend our neighbor.

That’s incorrect. At least, that’s not completely correct. I think it’s an extremely liberal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to suggest that we reserve the right to bear arms as even a means of self defense FROM our neighbors. Yes, we reserve that right to protect ourselves from our government, forcefully if neseccary, and yes we have a right to defend ourselves from physical harm, but it’s incorrect to conflate the two.

Basically, you’re suggesting that we have a right to police our communities as we see fit, since most crimes is an offense to someone and since defending against that crime would be a defense to ourselves and our neighbors. We do not have that right.

I think it weakens the argument for the individual right to bear arms when we suggest that it’s an effective way to stop crime.

In addition, I have a question for those that have concealed weapon permits. Has “Gun Free Zones” ever stopped you from carrying your weapon into the “zone” if you knew that you weren’t going to be frisked? I only ask because I think there is some confusion regarding the term. With most “Gun Free Zones”, it exists only to add an additional charge to those that commit crimes and have a gun. I think some are overemphasizing the effect of the zones of the general population.

And let’s be honest here. Do you really, REALLY think this crazy kid picked his location do to it being a “gun free zone”? Do you really think he had another place and mind and thought “No, too dangerous. Not “Gun Free”? Come on.
#189103

On December 6th, 2007 at 5:57 pm, deepdiver said:

mpChops, I didn’t make post #93 as a thorough discussion of various intricacies of 2nd Amendment rights, nor is this thread the place for it. I was making a comment relative to the event to the commenters here.

In addition, I have a question for those that have concealed weapon permits. Has “Gun Free Zones” ever stopped you from carrying your weapon into the “zone” if you knew that you weren’t going to be frisked?

Yes, it has. Most CC people I talk to in person and online have that same answer. Concealed carry licensees are among the most law-abiding people in the nation. We tend to follow the law/rules.

There are different kinds of “gun free zones”. For the sake of simplicity, generally there are those mandated by gov’t such as certain schools and those mandated by property owners such as this mall. I think they have a large effect on the general population when there is someone within one shooting at them and there is no one armed and trained nearby to stop the bad guy.

I don’t know if the “gun free” part effected him or not. To even guess would be uninformed speculation.
#190254

On December 7th, 2007 at 4:38 pm, gunslingerpatriot said:

mpChops #95
No the “gun free zones” is generally applied to people caught carrying their guns illegally in those zones, even if they aren’t committing a violent criminal act.
If a person is committing a crime with a firearm in a “gun free zone” there are already charges that they will be hit with and the “gun free zone” won’t add any additional time to their sentence.

GSP