Shopping mall horror in Omaha: 9 murdered, shooter dead
Update: A few tidbits from a tipster in the Omaha area…
The woman who was at the mall with her child is the daughter of the county attorney, Don Kleine. The shooter, Hawkins, had pending matters — Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor, Minor in Possession or Alcohol, Open Container, etc. but had not yet been arraigned.
Update: The shooter has been ID’d.
***
A nightmare situation is unfolding in Omaha, where a gunman murdered 9 people at a shopping mall before killing himself. Jim Hoft is tracking. It’s the top story on the cable nets.
If you’re in the area, keep us updated. Say a prayer for the victims. Stay tuned for more details.
***
A grenade was found at the same mall last week.
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Truly makes you stop, say a little prayer - and whisper a “Thank You” - as we all sit near our computers, at work or at home, reading about this, making our little comments about this or that -
Someone in Omaha is getting a phone call…
Someone in Omaha is not coming home tonight.
Thoughts and prayers go out to all those involved…..
Probably some PC crackpot ticked over Christmas ornaments.
This can’t be true. I’m quite certain that mall is a gun free zone.
Bless them.
Very sad.
Any chance this is sudden Jihad Syndrome ?
How horrible. Why do people do this?
Christmas in Omaha will be sad this year.
Lord, watch over the people of Omaha. Welcome the faithful departed into your loving arms and comfort those who mourn them. Have mercy on the shooter, and all who commit acts of violence.
This time of the year for some is a constant reminder of what is missing from their lives. And this is usually the time of year where unstable folks decide to take their lives and innocent people with them. Not everyone has a supportive family and wonderful friends. I pray for the families of those who lost their lives today.
That was my first thought, ala the Salt Lake city mall shooting last year.
I’ll be praying for the victims and their families tonight.
Pres. Bush was to travel to Omaha yesterday Dec. 4. Any conncection?
Has a PROFILE been revealed as to the man’s ethnicity? Reminds me of the recent incident of the gun toting Islamist in a Dearborn, MI Park.
He WAS TESTING-TESTING.
I’m getting tired of having to say prayers for victims of these mindless, stupid, evil acts.
sighhhhhh………..
I’m wondering where the ubiquitous “There is no connection to terrorism” quote is. I haven’t seen it, and yet DHS can solve these cases within minutes to support that statement-to prove it.
My prayers go out to the victims of this tragedy.
#6:
William Amos said:
Any chance this is sudden Jihad Syndrome ?
Gotta rule that out in each and every case these days.
Condolences and prayers for all the families affected by this senseless rampage.
I’m in Omaha, it’s not Sudden Jihad Syndrome. Rusty at the Jawa Report has been listening to the local radio over the internet and has a detailed post.
And people wonder why I, legally, carry a gun.
_I_ wonder why other people don’t carry. The cops can’t protect everyone and gun-free zones are really just “defenseless victim zones”. A person who is not deterred by laws against murder is not going to be deterred by a “no guns allowed” sign.
People have to start taking responsibility for their own safety rather than expecting the government to do it for them.
i am tired of the 24 hour news media providing these evil workers their 15 minutes of fame. these crackpots want notoriety as well as to enact some form of revenge.
i pray for the families and that lost a loved one. i pray for those in the mall that were terrorized. i pray for the media remember to not give this guy too much fame for his evil act.
All of the Malls in Omaha are posted “No Firearms”
SHEEP!
Any Muhammed Bears found on the parking lot?
My Sig would’ve had a hot barrel?
Just heard they found a suicide note from some 19 year old who wanted to go out in style.
Mission Not Accomplished.
I live in Lincoln, about 45 miles from Omaha. It’s all over the local news…of course, with a tragedy such as this…conflicting reports, etc.
So, far, the local news is reporting 9 dead (including the gunman, self inflicted) and 5 wounded.
Nailed it!!!
I ignore the “Rob Me” signs, as I call them.
It’s not like they’re going to search me when I walk in to do my Christmas shopping.
No one should die because they went shopping. Here
in TX someone would quite likely have put this jerk out of his misery. There was a shooting in a store a
couple of weeks ago in Dallas where a college football
player was shot and died last week. He was an innocent bystander. It was two black guys that ran into each other and one had stolen over $100,000.00
from the other one over a year ago. They saw each
other and started shooting..inside a store.
This planet needs help bad.
I read that too Tim. “I’m going out in style.” This isn’t the Wild West (or is it?), there is nothing commendable about killing innocent people.
His lesson is yet to come.
Heartbreaking news.
May God rest their Souls and comfort their families.
Unsurprising but sad in a country that worships the gun.
JUST
IGNORE
HIM
Worst kind of coward Rambos himself up and shoots unarmed people. How about You go after someone that can defend themselves you demented B**st**d.
Just one reason I no longer visit malls. I can’t stand crowds in an enclosed environment. I notice the so called security wandering around our local malls unarmed. And I have to fear becoming a target in a ready made shooting gallery.
Another person who, instead of committing suicide normally, has found that if others go with him, he’ll end up on the news and, for the first time in his life, feel important. Mall shooters, school shooters all want to go out in their idea of a “blaze of glory”. Unfortunately, the MSM feeds on these sad events and promotes the shooter. Other see this, and the shootings will continue. Instead of ridiculing and condemming the shooters, they are sympathized with. More calls for gov’t control and gun control are sure to follow, as politicians vie for votes. I feel very sympathetic with the families. So useless….
Our prayers for the families of the victims killed and those still fighting for their lives. Why can’t these guys just turn the damn gun on themselves first?
The sudden Jihad syndrome at the Trolley Square Mall drove me over the edge to get my CCW along with my wife. We have Bosnian Muslims in our area and your never know when one might go off. Just last week she told me she was going to the mall in Boise and I demanded she transfer her weapon from glove compartment to her purse before she went in. We do not go anywhere other than the local AFB that we can’t carry. I will not willing go into a free fire zone unless I absolutely have to. Unless prohibited by Federal or State law I am packing when out and about.
Nineteen year old, dropped out of school, according to friends, was very depressed. Left a note stating he wanted to go out in “style.”
He was recently arrested for a misdemeanor, and due to go back to court soon.
Dropped out of school two years ago…another case of the public school system failing another youth? Was working here and there in the fast food industry…and living with a friend…
And for “those” of you who have their heads up their rears (and you know who you are), people kill people, not guns. He could have just as easily drove a vehicle into a large crowd and accomplished the same result(as has happened before.) Lame-brain…blame an inanimate object for the actions of an insane person…give me a break.
He said that he wanted to go out in style? I hope the media makes sure that people don’t view this as style - lest it becomes a trend.
They need to paint this guy as a pathetic loser - not some sympathetic ill soul.
I have a CCW permit and don’t understand why more gun owners don’t.
Sausage is right! It is Guns, horrible Guns! That is why they have so many of these massacres in Switzerland, where EVERY able-bodied adult is a trained soldier and has easy access to military firearms! Its madness I tell you, mad-
What? They DON’T have a problem with this in Switzerland? It must be our violent CULTURE, then! Its American culture, that worships guns and violence! That is why shooters like the guy at VA tech are never from foreign countries! And no other cultures, like say Finland, have this problem! Its violent American culture, and we must end this cult of the gun!
Oh wait. The VA tech shooter was Korean, wasn’t he? And there was just a school massacre in Finland? I don’t understand…
IT’S BUSH’S FAULT!
Of course those who will want to take away your rights to guns will use this as an example.
I suggest those people call for the end of anti-depressant’s in young people….there is way to much medicine being shoved down the throats of kids these days…..but the pharmaceutical industry would rather ply their next great thing that really spend 10-20 years in investigating the drugs. Money money money is the problem not guns.
PB- So do I. I carry everywhere I go. With all the nutcases running around, courtesy of our compassionate legal system, it is imperative we protect ourselves.
Grey fox - nice try, but the VA Tech shooter moved to the United States at age eight.
He was taught the cult of the gun right here in the US of A.
I don’t think money is the problem…it’s got to be fast food…or teachers…or CO2…or lack of proper healthcare (why did the S-Chip program fail this poor boy, sob…) or cosmic rays…or Karl Rove…or Chinese lead poisoning…etc., etc.
I love it when people move somewhere and then relentlessly complain that it is the worst place to be. You know, like people who move next to an airport and complain about airplane noise.
Brilliant.
Don’t forget to pray for the officers who have to make that knock on the door and tell the family. I’ve had to stand in front of families more times than I can count and give that speech. One likes to think it does not take its toll, it does.
Once again, LAMO, the VA Tech murderer was insane!!! What part of “INSANE” don’t you get?
Those guns did not plan the murders, did not load themselves, did not fantasize about killing those students, did not fire themselves, that crazy did. It has absolutely nothing to do with the American culture, but everything to do with a psycho’s mental state.
And just where does one go to be taught about this “cult of the gun” you so knowledgably speak?
Just as I figured, the insane teen gunman was a victim himself. Mean ol’ McDonalds fired him so he had to go on a rampage. It’s not his fault.
Sheesh, can people take responsiblity for once?
Kids are trained to be victims in our modern, enlightened, semi-socialist, PC society. It affects everything from social development to math scores.
It doesn’t help knowing that any idiot who can kill enough innocents for a high body count will, in fact, get the 15 minutes of fame that they weren’t creative or bold enough to gain through hard work and/or honest living.
PB- I just found this definition of Political Correctness by students at Texas A&M University:
Azygos…
I know what you mean. I’ve done that more times than I care to remember. It’s always dificult and you’re right, it does take a toll.
Malls are Target Friendly or TF for short.
#47, that is outstanding!
I Agree PB, and LOL Right on #47. The only good out of this is that he killed himself. We won’t have to worry about a long trial and protesters like sausage demanding he get medical treatment for his ill head rather than a journey to the gurney after receiving the death penalty.
Sausage, I didn’t know that. And the Finnish guy?
Incidently, how do you define that “cult?” How does it differ from other cultures’ love of certain weapons, like, say, the sword in Japanese culture? And how does it differ from, 1950s America, when this sort of thing was unheard of? If anything, Americans are less familiar with firearms then they were 50 years ago.
Now here is an interesting theory, and more plausible than the “gun cult” theory:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55310
28 charlie tango foxtrot.
I heard the gunman also shot a teddy bear. I’m not kidding.
Prayers for the families and wounded.
Nothing else to add except the sarcasm of the trolls should be deleted.
I guess the deaths of the innocent are not enough to soften some hearts and minds to mindless violence that has always existed on this earth—our ancestors just did not have 24 hour cable TV to tell them.
AJ,
See #48. Gotcha
Yeah, some idiot called the radio show I was listening to saying that. He hung up on her.
Two words: concealed carry.
People sometimes ask me if it scares me to go camping alone in the wilderness. I tell them no, I’m more afraid in the parking lot of a shopping center than in the wilderness.
I checked my state’s requirements for a concealed weapons permit. Among other things it said “Must not have a history of alcohol or drug abuse.” That leaves me out. Been sober for 10 years but I couldn’t pass that requirement without lying.
That’s right. there was never any violence before the US. this country is what created violence. Lord knows Europe was never a violent place. After all, the millions slaughtered every year in Africa has nothing to do with guns, or video games or movies or anything like that. Heck, the Romans, Greeks, Celts, Barbarians, and so many other ancient peoples actually spent all their time weaving flowers into hair wreaths and danced the dance of love under the stars and loved one another as man truly was meant to…
That is, until the evil Americans and their violent culture came about. Damn that Christopher Columbus. Damn him for finding the West Indies and all that came after. All the slaughter of the natives that lead to what is now the senseless killings by the guns that were all…every last one of them, including the gun powder used to propel all the American made bullets, made here in this God forsaken land.
How can we ever live with ourselves knowing that we, as a nation, are the sole reason that there is violence on this planet. The 50 million plus that were slaughtered as a result of Germany in the 30’s-40’s is NOTHING compared to us. Forget what Stalin and the rest of the Communists and Socialists have done. No…it is us.
I can’t take this guilt. I say we all just group together in one big lemming group, find a cliff some where and start launching off. Maybe then we will have attoned for our sins and the world can return to weaving flower wreath hair bands. They will be rid of us evil Americans and the evil Capitalism that rules our lives. that will be best, no? Come on, does anyone have a better idea? Did i not understand history correctly?
Is there a Liberal here that knows history better that can explain why this is more violent in terms of what is going on now than in the past? I really need to know…my heart aches from guilt.
This is for you SAUSAGE, you actually believe that the majority who own guns worship them like some idol? You have to be kidding, most gun owners use guns for hunting or self protection. Do you also complain about those who worship Christ as well? Just wondered if you do.
It disgusts me that people can take such a terrible tragedy, where some horribly troubled and sick youth that so obviously fell through the cracks and desperately needed help, where there are now families that are hurting, and hrting so near the holidays and turn it into a political argument about guns and what not.
this was a sick kid. This is a kid whose parents didn’t get him the help he needed. His frieds, who knew he was depressed, did not reach out to him and help him. This is a wake up call to people to not ignore those that are in pain inside. Everyone has a breaking point. Do not ignore people, especially your children. Whether this kid used a gun, a knife, a bat or what ever is irrelevant. The means is not what is the point. The point is what happened and why. When are you anti-gun freaks going to get that through your heads.
There are millions of guns out there on the streets. There are not millions of people shooting up the towns. Your arguments do not make sense. This has nothing to do with whether he had a gun or not.
Garyt:
Where have you been? Of course he does.
“Cult of the gun”??? “Gun worship”??? So can I be guaranteed that if I get rid of our shotgun, the idiots in the projects will get rid of theirs? What if my grammy gets rid of her 9 mm? Hmmm, any guarantees? How dare you try to place good peaceful common folk in the same catagory as morons who are so quick to abuse the 2nd Amendment. FO moron.
How unfair.
This is, if anything, unsurprising in a nation that worships moral relativity. Not guns.
A few direct questions for you, sausage.
Murder is illegal, correct?
Mall policy in Omaha, as indicated above, does not allow guns on the premises, correct?
There are laws on the books that are broken repeatedly by criminals who have no regard for laws.
If they have no qualms about breaking the laws regarding murder, what in the WORLD makes you think they’re going to give a hoot about gun laws?
Look at every area where gun bans are enforced - especially Washington DC and the UK. You do not see a decrease in crime, just an increase in victims who are unable to defend themselves.
Why is it things that are Constitutional - like free speech, free expression of religion, and gun ownership - are savagely attacked by the left, while things that aren’t in the Constitution - like abortion and gay marriage and benefits for illegal immigrants - are rabidly defended as “rights”?
English #63, I’m surprised they used the term “worship” in the post you quoted. Liberals are sure to gang up on the lefty gone wrong and taze him
According to the troll America’s gun culture is behind all ills but in Africa the Machete is responsible for numerous atrocities.
Those damn inanimate objects.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200712032009.html
“He was taught the cult of the gun right here in the US of A.”
I suppose violence never existed on Earth before the 2nd Amendment?
I suppose Japan worships the Cult of the Steak Knife?
A firearm is a tool, used for good or evil by the human controlling it but as an inanimate object neither good nor evil itself.
Totin’ Firearm.
Thank god for Colt, a true American!
Iraq should just outlaw explosives - yep, that should work!
GOD, be with these families. Comfort them.
I wish Sausage and all the other anti-gun Nazis would just make a little trip over to the FBI site and do a little research and look up the statistics as to what the number one weapon of choice is when it comes to assaults.
Should we start outlawing baseball bats? Should we put little leaguers on the most wanted lists? How about putting people with kitchen knoves on the wanted list? hmm? If I kill someone with tose implements, will that make you feel better? Will that make the person less dead? Your arguments are just plain stupid, do you understand? STUPID!!!! Violence is violence and killing is killing. The weapon used is pretty much moot/ It is the PERSON that is the weapon. The item of choice is just a tool. The WEAPON can use ANYTHING as a TOOL. You idiots are just too stupid to understand this. I mean, common sense just doesn’t apply, since it obviously is not common enough.
I have several guns. Are you telling me I am a ruthless killer just waiting to be unleashed? I have seen and treated more than my share of shooting victims in my time. Let me tell you, it didn’t matter what weapon would have been used. If these people were to go, the assailants would have used a freaking wiffle ball bat if they thought it would have worked. But since it fits your biggotted world view full of hatred towards that which you don’t understand and don’t like, you will not accept this line of thought as it just plain makes too much sense and can’t swueeze through your narrow little minds.
Based on the logic that guns kill, not people, may I make a suggestion? Vehicles account for 50K deaths every year. Seems to me it would be best to concentrate on that first. Pass the first anti-car law in the nation. Err…”for the children.” What you don’t hear from the MSM, is the many times that guns have protected lives and property from those who would take it. Well, at least cars aren’t protected under the 2nd amendment. Should be easier,then. But, then again, how do you use a “concealed car permit”? And, anti-gun laws don’t work. Washington, D.C. is a good example. You have a better chance of survival in Bagdad as a soldier, than a citizen in Washington, D.C.. It is not uncommon, once the sun goes down, to hear gunshots in the neighborhoods, so the people there say. Criminals love gun-free zones; makes their job easier. One thing governments hate is an armed citizenry. That was the purpose of the 2nd amendment. A subdued population is any government’s goal. Anyway, it isn’t the guns that are the problem. I’m 58 years old and seen a lot of changes to our culture over the decades, mostly bad. No respect, no responsibility, no caring…the obvious result when you want the government to control and provide for you.
It just blows me away that these fruit loops, much like the fruit loops in San Francisco believed, think that if every town in every county in every state in this country were to outlaw every type of gun possible, that the bad guys, you know, the criminals…the actual people that you don’t want to have holding and keeping guns, would actually comply with and follow that law. They actually believe that these thugs would show up at where ever it is you turn in your weapon, place it on the table and suddenly turn over a new leaf now that the big evil gun has been removed from them…like a Catholic Exorcism had been performed by the Pope himself.
This has to be about the most incredibly stupidest line of thinking and reasoning I have ever heard in my life. They don’t care about laws to begin with. They don’t care about any of the myriad of gun laws on the books now. Why would you think they would care one way or the other if guns wer outlawed or not? It is illegal for felons to be in possesion of a firearm, whether it is his or not. It cannot even be in his house or car, as that is considered possesion. Yet they do that ALL THE TIME.
This just goes to show everyone once again that….LIBERALS>>>>ARE>>>>STUPID!!!!!!
It’s A Culture Thing, Not a Gun Thing
I’m sure this mall monster was “inspired” for his 15 minutes by the idiot up in New Hampshire. So much for media overcoverage.
I hate to start off with “there was a time..” but there was — and it wasn’t that long ago! When kids in the country brought rifles and shotguns to their school lockers to do skeet shooting or hunting with dad or friends after school. You simply didn’t hear the carnage you get today. This is before (know it sounds trivial but) 007 made a billboard splash by eternally posing with his gun and ever since then it seems every action movie must show its male lead strutting his macho by holding a gun. This warped a lot of boys’ notion of what it takes to be a man, and I think helped spring this Gothic and Rap/Hip-Hop glorification of violence. This behavior has cost society dearly, not just in lives but corrupting the attitudes of even younger generations; here in NYC we have ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS with metal detectors! How must little kids think of their society if they must walking past metal detectors every day?
Of course the most rapid “cure” is to screen crooks and psychos from gun purchases and to REALLY get serious on Hollywood and the music industry’s “tolerance” (i.e. glorification) of violence because I’ve small faith that parents are up to it nowadays, but like sex it sadly seems violence sells.
James Greenidge
Queens New York
Right, James. This is the main reason why my wife and I rarely listen to “modern” music today, or go to the movies. Last time we went to the movies was to see “Cars”, because my wife is an avid NASCAR fan. Movies out today concentrate more on sex and violence than any good plot worth remembering. We bombard our kids that violence solves all problems. Then we stand there, open-mouthed, wide-eyed, when they use violence. When I was in public schools, a “see you after school” was the only threat. Now they shoot each other. Musicians are filling their lyrics with violence…rape, cop killing, etc.. Even TV shows show little imagination these days. We watch the educational channels now. Better viewing and you learn something when you watch.
Well, I can give BUSH and most congressional friends of all citizens one credit;
Because of “them” I will most definitely become a full fledged gun owner.
My sincere prayers for the souls of the victims. Another prayer for the families of hurt.
I’m very happy the shooter is dead, and hope he rots in hell.
Forget blaming Bush, its because of the soon to be disposed Governor Kathleen Blanco and Mayor Richard “Choculate City” Nagin are the reasons why I am going through the process of getting a CCW.
If guns can be confiscated by the “brown shirts” in LA after Katrina, then no one’s guns are safe. Anarchy becomes the rule of the day!
GSP
BTW-I own a Sig 9mm P-226 with a laser grip site and am a Life Member of the NRA. Any presidential candiate is going to have to pass the Second Amendment for my vote!
#63
Englishqueen01…
Your comments were excellent and right on point. Liberals don’t and won’t get it.
Working the evening and night shifts in Columbia, MD, I would often hear the pop-pop-pop of AK-47’s and I couldn’t even guess at the number of shooting and homicides I handled over 25+ years of law enforcement.
AK’s up against 9mm handguns makes you feel a little overwhelmed.
I finally broke down and just signed up for a one year membership in the NRA on Tuesday. If I like what I see I will probably go for the life membership. Being a disabled veteran makes the cost very affordable.
I carry a Glock 19 because I can’t carry a cop.
Is it that easy for ANYONE to get an “assault rife”? I guess I’m wondering why anyone needs such a weapon. I also ask, if concealed weapons had been allowed in the mall, how many people in a scary circumstance like that, would have had the presence of mind to take out their weapon & shoot him without others getting hurt in the process?
They say guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But it is people with guns who kill people. And of course if they wanted to kill someone they could do it with a baseball bat. My husband wants to buy more guns, but I am just plain afraid of them. In a situation of panic, I honestly don’t know if I could defend myself with one or not. I’d probably shoot myself in the foot.
It all makes me sad. It’s so depressing and senseless. How do people come to disregard life this way?
I carry too, but I hope and pray I never have to draw my weapon.
babbledabble, whether I, for example, have the appropriate amount of “presence of mind” or whatever else you think I should have - if someone points a weapon at my family as we walk through a mall, I’d rather have my pistol with me than not.
1) this sort of thing just didn’t happen when I was a kid (the 50’s)
2) want to bet there’s a pile of violent video games at the house? especially ones where you get to kill with guns of one sort of another?
3) yes, ‘gun free’ zones are just free fire zones for psychos and bad guys
4) the more of you good guys toting guns the safer I feel
“A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined” George Washington
#80
All I’m asking is, if that happened, could you pull out your gun & get him before he shot you or someone in your family? These things happen so fast. I think there are probably some people who would panic. I know I would.
Bab, If you think you will panic or shoot yourself in the foot, you shouldn’t have a pistol,but people that
do have them are the only way mass
murders like this can be stopped
C’mon, are you serious? I’m really hoping that’s sarcasm.
#82
Yes, it’s possible to recognize the threat, pull your concealed firearm, and kill a terrorist… believe it or not.
This punk, like the clown at VTech, is nothing but a scum bag, “fame” terrorist. Killing people to go out in style??? To be famous??? If I ever run across his grave, I will take big smelly dump on it!!!
If more people were there with the ability to shoot back, then perhaps this terrorist would not have shot so many.
But, if you just want to kill sheep, then go to sheep pen and start shooting. The unarmed sheep will not shoot back. You can kill as many as you need to be “famous”!
Oh, and yes he IS famous… Has his ugly face all over Drudge, and every other tabloid news outlet, both electronic an otherwise… DISGUSTING!!!
Something for people to think about-
tango-foxtrot sausage
Let me if I get this straight-kid loses his job at mickey d’s, gets dumped by his girlfriend, upset at life and decides to violently strike out. Sad and pathetic that the lives of others meant nothing to him for his “15 minutes of fame”.
I have carried various weapon systems over the past 15 years and depending on where and what I was doing would dictate what I carried. Until moving to TN, I generally carried a collapsible baton & pepper spray that would handle most threats fairly easily.
Unfortunately my slapstick is illegal for me to carry here.
With the mall and the VT shooting, I am having to reconsider my self defense plans and train accordingly.
GSP
P.S. Santa I want a new “Red Rider Repeating BB Gun” for Christmas—I have been really, really, really good this year! /large grin /
These tragic incidents are becoming all too common. I see that we’ve already become desensitized to them, as it took 6 posters to blame muslims.
However, I do take issue with people bringing up the “gun-free” zone aspect, and concealed weapons permits. If one supports concealed weapon permits, they support it because of their right to carry, not because they feel they should stop crime.
These tragic incidents are becoming all too common. I see that we’ve already become desensitized to them, as it took 6 posters to blame muslims.
However, I do take issue with people bringing up the “gun-free” zone aspect, and concealed weapons permits. If one supports concealed weapon permits, they support it because of their right to carry, not because they feel they should stop crime.
#87 & #88
If you carry a concealed firearm, then when you prevent the local scum bag criminal from killing you, or robbing you, or raping your wife…. THAT’S STOPPING A CRIME!!!
If you shoot and kill, or more preferably horribly mame a punk terrorist shooting innocent people at the mall….
THAT’S STOPPING A CRIME!!!
That’s why any law abiding person carries a conceal firearm…
TO STOP CRIME!!!
#88
I want to carry not just because its my right, but because it will stop crime if the criminals have to think twice about attacking a place because they feel the risk of success isn’t worth the price they are going to pay for losing their life.
One school shooting to consider:
Applacia Law School in 2002 Living proof why armed people with superior firepower can stop a derranged lunatic intent killing the sheep. The two students that stopped him-One a former US MARINE and the other an ex-cop. Fortunately these two students weren’t prosecuted for having their guns on campus in their cars.
I have to wonder, how many other of these high profile shootings would have been prevented if a person carrying a CCW had been there?
GSP
“An armed society is a polite society”
Gosh darnit!…
those sweet little muslims never done nuthin’ to nobody… why suspect them?
If it makes you feel better Chops, the first thing that popped into my mind when I saw the news about the killings last night was those crazy, wild, and wacky zoroastrians are at it again. .
Imagine my surprise when it was another thrill killing punk… a highly prized product of our liberal schools, and social system!
I do not know if that mall was a”gun free zone.”Either way,I still would be carrying,if I had a license to do so,there.That sign on the front door,did NOTHING,to stop that youn man.
We must all take responcability for our safety.When the police showed,he was already dead.So were his victims.
Yes it was a “gun free zone”. And I do carry a firearm almost 100% of the time, concealed or open carried depending on several factors, I avoid places and states where I cannot carry a firearm and yes I am properly trained and licensed to do so and have taken several advanced classes. Those of us who carry tend to take it quite seriously.
I have spent most of the day on various firearms forums discussing this tragic incident. In answer to babbledabble and others who question the effectiveness of citizens carrying concealed weapons in such a situation, let me ask you this: do you wear your seatbelt? Do you drive a car with airbags and crumple zones? Do you realize that those safety features do not always deploy quickly enough or effectively enough to save your or your passenger’s lives? Does that doubt mean you stop wearing seat belts and buy a 1960 Corvair because if you can’t be protected 100% why be protected at all?
None of us who carry a firearm professionally or as citizens can guess how likely it would have been that one or more of us could have been in a position to save even one life yesterday. But this is something you can bet on. If this had not been a “gun free zone” (also known as a “target rich environment if you are the bad guy looking through the scope) and there had been armed citizens in a position to even try to stop this, even at the risk of themselves, someone would have tried.
We don’t carry firearms because we are afraid. We carry them because we refuse to be afraid. We carry them because it is our God given right to defend ourselves and our societal obligation to defend our neighbor. God bless the victims and their families.
Were you really surprised?
That’s incorrect. At least, that’s not completely correct. I think it’s an extremely liberal interpretation of the 2nd Amendment to suggest that we reserve the right to bear arms as even a means of self defense FROM our neighbors. Yes, we reserve that right to protect ourselves from our government, forcefully if neseccary, and yes we have a right to defend ourselves from physical harm, but it’s incorrect to conflate the two.
Basically, you’re suggesting that we have a right to police our communities as we see fit, since most crimes is an offense to someone and since defending against that crime would be a defense to ourselves and our neighbors. We do not have that right.
I think it weakens the argument for the individual right to bear arms when we suggest that it’s an effective way to stop crime.
In addition, I have a question for those that have concealed weapon permits. Has “Gun Free Zones” ever stopped you from carrying your weapon into the “zone” if you knew that you weren’t going to be frisked? I only ask because I think there is some confusion regarding the term. With most “Gun Free Zones”, it exists only to add an additional charge to those that commit crimes and have a gun. I think some are overemphasizing the effect of the zones of the general population.
And let’s be honest here. Do you really, REALLY think this crazy kid picked his location do to it being a “gun free zone”? Do you really think he had another place and mind and thought “No, too dangerous. Not “Gun Free”? Come on.
mpChops, I didn’t make post #93 as a thorough discussion of various intricacies of 2nd Amendment rights, nor is this thread the place for it. I was making a comment relative to the event to the commenters here.
Yes, it has. Most CC people I talk to in person and online have that same answer. Concealed carry licensees are among the most law-abiding people in the nation. We tend to follow the law/rules.
There are different kinds of “gun free zones”. For the sake of simplicity, generally there are those mandated by gov’t such as certain schools and those mandated by property owners such as this mall. I think they have a large effect on the general population when there is someone within one shooting at them and there is no one armed and trained nearby to stop the bad guy.
I don’t know if the “gun free” part effected him or not. To even guess would be uninformed speculation.
mpChops #95
No the “gun free zones” is generally applied to people caught carrying their guns illegally in those zones, even if they aren’t committing a violent criminal act.
If a person is committing a crime with a firearm in a “gun free zone” there are already charges that they will be hit with and the “gun free zone” won’t add any additional time to their sentence.
GSP