Pearl Harbor: 66 years
The USS Oklahoma finally gets recognition.
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Remember Pearl Harbor 2006
Pearl Harbor - 64 years
Remembering Pearl Harbor
An overlooked great American
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A day that will live in infamy
foreveruntil it is no longer politically beneficial.And people wonder why politicians make me ill.
The only history being taught in the public schools now is “revisionist” history - if it isn’t the United States’ fault, twist the facts around until it is. Somehow, we brought Pearl Harbor on ourselves.
At least some of us remember - although that was slightly before my time, the parallels between 12/7 and 9/11 are too striking to be ignored.
Those who do not learn from the past are condemned to repeat it. We seem to be repeating it, but this time it’s all Politically Correct.
May God Bless those Marines who have lived through this. May they know they are appreciated and honored.
God Bless our troops then and now!
God bless this great country, as we celebrate our History. God bless those who lost their loved ones on that day. God Bless this country’s great citizens that give their lives in service to their country. God Bless America.
I will not apologize for America’s Historical Greatness, I will celebrate that Greatness.
I salute the remaining survivors of the sneak attack by the Japanese at Pearl Harbor.
Let it be known throughout the land, that December 7, 1941, is a date that will “live in infamy.”
I have been to Hickam AFB and there are remmenants of that attack that still exist. They range from pockmarks in walls of buildings to holes in hanger beams that were never fixed, so that they could forever serve as a reminder to those that see them of that infamy. I know that for me, it was a serious and powerful reminder of the evil that still exists in this world.
And it is not this country.
We didn’t start the fight, but we ended it.
Nuff said.
Since you bring it up. There was this little oil embargo shriveling up the Japanese economy. While that may or may not have been justified it was one of the many causes. There was also a failure to recognize the time differences. The Japanese diplomats were actually supposed to announce the attack “moments” before it happened.
That being said, we should still have seen it coming and it remains a tragic event in our history. The men who lived through it (And the rest of the war) should never be forgotten.
The price we paid for being so lax was paid many times over by our fine men and women. They bought us freedoms that we are now squandering away in the name of PC BS. May we always remember them and honor their memories with our actions as well as our thoughts and prayers.
Navy Brat - I remember.
With ya 30.
GOD bless out fighting forces who have helped and help bring peace around the world.
Entering and leaving Pearl Harbor, every U.S. Navy ship renders honors to the USS Arizona, which is still in commission.
That little oil embargo was partially due to Japan waging a war of agression in China. We were also not shipping them rubber products or scrap metal. All three of those items were necessary for their production of arms for the waging of that aggressive war.
Either read some more history or don’t selectively forget to mention pertinant facts.
#6:
“There was this little oil embargo shriveling up the Japanese economy.”
And why was the embargo in place to begin with?
What do you think the Japanese had been doing to the Chinese since the early 1930s?
I did not forget to mention it. I did however clarify the statement that since it was brought up I would mention it. There was also ample evidence that the attack was a foregone conclusion and we should have been better prepared for it. Nonetheless I will continue to honor and offer my prayers and support to other veterans (Like myself hint hint) with my thoughts and my prayers.
It was a tragic event in history but please read my entire comment before you are so quick to criticize. Ask and I think you may be surprised how knowledgeable I am in regards to history.
Coming from a family where only two men in my generation have failed to do time in the service of our nation and having been educated outside of the public schools of indoctrination, I am quite certain that I could find common ground with you should you choose to discuss it rather than making assumptions.
The day will live in infamy. It was a time when we knew who the enemy was and we knew what our mission was. We fought wars to win and let our military finish the job. The greatest generation indeed.
Let us not forget the American advisers that were already in China before Pearl Harbor as well as the volunteer America Air Corps there. Yes, I am quite aware of the situation but the entire point of my post was in response to the fact that it could be twisted to say that we encouraged it. Yes, we did what we thought was right at the time and given the same scenario today (National issues among the same nations notwithstanding) I would hope that our Nation would stand up to the test again.
My other point was that we should have seen it coming. My conclusion was and remains that it was a tragic event that should be remembered. (Please see the first reply on this topic if you doubt the veracity of my claims)
That is not quite right. The Japanese Ambassador was supposed to notify US Secretary of State Cordell Hull a half hour before the attack on Pearl Harbor was supposed to begin that Japan considered itself in a state of war with the US. The message did NOT specify any imminent attack nor identify Pearl Harbor at all.
The timeline set by Adm. Yamamoto was: have the diplos in Washington deliver a state of war message at 1pm Washington time and begin the actual attack on Pearl harbor at 1:30pm Washington time.
Instead the Japanese diplos were delayed by their own translation and typing problems and THEY were the cause of the late-delivered message. Evidently the diplos did NOT know of the timing of the actual attack, and werent aware that the late message scuttled Yamamotos plan to declare war first and then attack. They arrived to see Hull after Hull had already gotten news the attack had begun.
Actually you live up to your name in this instance. I am indeed corrected on this fact. I had forgotten that part. Now that you mention it I do remember there was actually a problem getting it decoded and typed up in time.
Apologies for misspeaking and thanks for the correction
God bless our WWII vets, survivors and those who have left us. They were truly the greatest generation.
I recommend the book “Flags of our Fathers” to anyone that hasn’t read it. I haven’t seen the movie, so I can’t speak to that, but the book was great.
Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere my big, white behind.
The book, “Flyboys” by James Bradley, that came out a few years ago, is an excellent study of the events of Japanese history that led up to Pearl Harbor and beyond. Yes, atrocities are committed by all sides in any war. A lot of the things he brings out are most disturbing, and should be, but he doesn’t attempt to color them. He just lays them all out. His main focus, of course, is Chi Chi Jima/Iwo Jima history, but it is a riviting book that sheds a lot of light on Pearl Harbor and the Japanese mindset at the time.
It’ll be late, but after I get off work tonight, I’m going home and watch “Tora! Tora! Tora!” again…
God Bless our WWII vets, a vanishing breed. May their stories never fade. And may SOMETHING wake up America…apparently 9/11 didn’t…
Thanks to all of those WW II vets that are leaving us at such a quick rate. The vets and those back here sacrificed to an extent I’ll never be able to fully fathom or appreciate.
None of the information I see here is revisionist. All of it is basically a summary of the events behind the Japanese attack.
To say they had a reason to do it, well, that’s logical. They did. No one should consider that as ‘making excuses’ for the Japanese, or anything of the sort. They gambled their imperial ambitions on knocking us out of the pacific early, and their bet got called and raised.
My thanks to the US Military.
God bless you always (and especially, today, the survivors of WW2).
It’s the public school system.
Nothing to learn here, move along.
Save America!
School your children yourself.
YES!!!,it is a great sacrifice!…
but after all,that is what made America Great! Sacrifice!
……………….thank you very much.
I think the way Yamamoto phrased it was that he was “Afraid they woke the sleeping dragon”? And indeed they did. What sickens me are the people who are ignorant of history and the true costs of our freedom.
I don’t think it is fair how we treated the Japanese. We should have given them their day in court to see if their rights were being infringed upon. [/sarc off]
YES it did!!! Remember all the flags and the solidarity EVERYWHERE?!?…
However the MSM-machine took over literally minutes after we were attacked (”we won’t re-run the attacks because they are too stressful…” and blip…they were gone…) and there are just a few true conservatives to counter them…If our leaders are silent, then the people will listen to who ever is willing to stand up and make a bold statment…no matter how idiotic (”we attacked ourselves on 9/11″)……..It’s time for the silent right to stand up and make some noise.
I’ve rendered honors to the USS Arizona many times in my Navy days. Would that all people remembered. It’s not just kids either.
I’ve talked to 50 year olds that don’t know the significance of December 7th, 1941 (I even gave them the year.)
The problem is a nation of spoiled children and even more spoiled adults that believe things like the military, wars, sneak attacks, and terrorists don’t have anything to do with them or their insulated lives. They think “it won’t reach here” or “the military will take care of it” as they drink their iced latte’s and discuss how unfair America is to the rest of the world by actually trying to prevent illegal immigration or by ’sticking our nose’ in Iraq or Iran where it doesn’t belong.
Thank God for the wisdom of our Leaders during WW2. If the people running the country then were anything like the jerks we have today (congress) we’d all be saluting the Swastika or the Rising Sun instead of Old Glory.
VFW’s monthly mag had an article about the USS Oklahoma memorial, which will be dedicated today. 429 souls lost…
read the story
Interesting discussion so far on the thread; books can and have been written about Pearl Harbor, and why and how it happened, and “what if” possibilities of all sorts.
Suffice it to say that on a day like today, the Coast Guard’s motto - Semper Paratus - should be one that all of our armed forces should adopt.
My Father & Father-in-Law both served during WWII. One was a 1st louie in the air corp & the other a hard sarge in the infantry.
It was a necessary war in every sense.
The comment was made about ‘revisionist history.’ One thing I found very telling during Ken Burns’ PBS show about WWII was an interview with an elderly southern lady describing the end of the pacific war. To paraphrase, she said, “I don’t care what anyone says, dropping those nuclear bombs on hiroshima & nagasaki was the right thing to do.”
It’s a shame that many of the self-absorbed, petulant children of that ‘greatest’ generation finds it so compelling to demonize this nation during that awful conflict when the very existence of free , democratic societies hung in the balance.
But, then again, it’s many of those same self-absorb, petulant (and obtuse) children of that greatest generation who embrace brutal thugs and sociopaths like chavez & ahmadinejad.
We hardly deserve continued success.
From Wikipedia:
And that surprised the Japanese.
A few years back, during an American History class, I had the honor to be in the class with a Pearl Harbor survivor. When we started on WWII and Pearl Harbor he told us he was an eighteen year old sailor on a ship when the attack happened. He and two of his buddies were on their way to church service when the attack started, sadly he lost his friends in the attack. The whole class sat wide-eyed and gave this gentleman his due respect. Our professor said at the end of the class there was nothing he nor our history book could add. More than a few of us shed tears that day. I will never forget that man for he was a living history lesson. This was more then a few years ago and I often wonder if he is still with us. He truly touched my heart and I filed his story away with all the ones my father shared with me from his service during WWII in the Pacific.
My father died as a result of injuries sustained during the attack on Pearl Harbor. And, since I was born on Pearl Harbor Day a few years later, I shall never forget the price he, and I, paid.
The atttack by Islamo-facists on 9/11 is no different, only our responses.
The world cannot tolerate freedom as we know it: the price of freedom is too high for the Kennedys and Kerrys and Clintons of today. They no nothing of sacrifice.
Regrettably, far too many of us in the U.S. have a tendancy to forget what happended 66 years ago today on 12/7/41, much like the short period of time it took to forget what happended on 9/11/01.
I had a professor in college years ago (more than I care to count now) tell me that History is not an exact science. He was correct. It is left far too open to interpretation. And, that is very disappointing for a person like me that loves history.
I try to get most of my information on that era from people that lived through it. But, they are passing on from this world quicker and quicker each day. We can never recover such walking history books and will soon be left to the published revisionist works used in our schools today. *sigh*
Makes me want to break out those Atomic bombs again - Iran maybe?????
My father was turned down when he volunteered for the armed services in 1941 after the Pearl Harbor attack because he had four children and one on the way. His brother and my Mother’s brother were accepted. At the same time they were joining, my Mother’s cousin was being sent home from Hawaii with serious injuries. He had been in the Navy for several years already! My Mother and Father were very involved in the many civilian efforts to support the success of WWII. America was united in their resolve to win the battles in the Pacific and European theaters! I am a beneficiary of all those who “fought for success” and gave their lives so that years later, I would grow up knowing that my “freedom was not free”. When I think about the WWII Veterans and those of more recent conflicts, I see the faces of my beloved Uncles, Father, and Mother, who along with MOST of that generation, have gone on to their eternal reward. My obligation and privilege is to Honor all Veterans, support their families, and teach my students, as long as I can, the accurate historical accounts of the costs of Liberty and Democracy. I encourage everyone who is able to make sure that the present and future generations “never forget” why and who made America the greatest country in the World. The next generation of leaders must know and appreciate our TRUE history. No effort could be more worthy at this time in my opinion.
If you have never stood on the “deck” of the USS Arizona memorial and looked down at the wreckage of the ship, scanned the markers on battleship row, and then looked over at where the USS Missouri is docked, you are truly missing out. In one view, you survey the two ships that bring the war full circle. Throw in an American Flag, and it makes for an emotional moment. If this doesn’t move you, nothing will.
God Bless the souls of my dad and his fellow servicemen who were in uniform when the Japanese attacked. And all those that gave their lives fighting tyranny and the preservation of freedom for us.
Michelle,
Thanks for posting the link about the U.S.S. Oklahoma. Being an Okie by birth I am finally happy to see the men who died on that ship being memorialized today.
The Oklahoma Public Television Network has a website recording the history and stories of Oklahomians who served in WWII.
The site also will be showing live webcasts of the U.S.S. Oklahoma Memorial dedication cerimony starting at 8PM CST today. Here is a link to the website:
Click on the header that says “Oklahoma Word War II Stories” just above the “Share a Story” and “Explore a Story” boxes.
http://www.oeta.onenet.net/
Sorry. Missed the L in “Oklahoma World II Stories”.
Remember those who died today at Pearl Harbor. God bless them. And God bless all the vets who served in WW2. Yes, armoredcav, one only needs to stand at the Arizona memorial to be moved to a tear. Thank goodness we didn’t have the MSM and liberals of today. My wife would be speaking Japanese; perhaps maybe Michelle. And the Pacific would have been a Japanese lake. Flying to Paris today, you would need a German-English dictionary.
I did my last reenlistment on the USS Arizona Memorial after returning from Enduring Freedom in Jan 01. I got to fly my reenlistment flag over the memorial, which is now displayed in my entry hall. There were about 75 other sailors who reenlisted with me and it was a pretty emotional time for all.
The movie “Here Comes the Navy”, made in 1934 and starring James Cagney and Pat O’Brien, was partly filmed on the USS Arizona. I recommend everyone to watch this if possible to see the great ship in action.
It’ll be on Turner Classic Movies on Dec 11 at 10am Eastern.
I just returned from a retirement ceremony to celebrate one heck of a Senior Noncommissioned Officer’s 20 years of active duty service to this country. One of the first things stated was to remember the significance of this attack which destroyed all but a couple of P-40 Warhawks belonging to Army Air Corps at Hickham AFB and almost destroyed our entire Pacific Fleet. I also have seen the bullet holes in the buildings still standing from the attack that Sunday morning while passing through in my active duty flying days. I have seen the Arizona memorial from the air and every time we flew in and out it would strike home how close we were to being defeated on that day. Had not our carrier fleet been out at sea the outcome of the war in the Pacific could have been a very different thing.
It saddens me our young people no longer understand the importance of this vicious and brilliantly executed sneak attack, but looking at how most people seemed to have forgotten about the 3,000 souls lost on 9/11 amazes me too. Being around the Military most of my life and still working for them I understand the threat this modern enemy poses to our nation and Western civilization.
Few things will make me well up and cry. Visiting the Marine memorial in Washington D.C., and standing in the memorial of the U.S.S. Arizona at Pearl Harbor.
Semper Fi!
My father witnessed the attack with his father. He remembers it vividly.
What a lot of people don’t know is that the locals lived in constant fear of a land invasion by the Japanese.
When anyone asks me what to do when they visit Hawaii, my first suggestion is always to visit the USS Arizona Memorial — and get there early.
come on now. the younger generation of Americans know what December 7 represents. Sure you can find exceptions, but you can do that with anything.
And yea people might not be as into Iraq and Afghanistan as they should be, but for that I blame President Bush. How did FDR react to Pearl? By calling the nation together and telling them that sacrifice would be required. President Bush told us to go back to our normal routines like nothing happened. This helped people believe that “the military would take care of it” as one commenter said earlier.
Also when facing Germany and Japan, the United States faced a truly existential threat. Terrorism is just not the same level of threat. Yes 9.11 was terrible, but there wasnt worry that an Al Qaeda invasion was imminent during the following days. Al Qaeda wasnt going to take control of an American city.
Also remember that Pearl could have been much worse. For all the damage it did, it was not the grand strategic victory the Japanese were hoping for (they wanted us to negotiate and open up the oil flow again after Pearl… not launch a full scale war. Admiral Yamamoto knew Japan would lose such a war). The Japanese did not launch a third wave against Pearl… this helped the oil tanks and repair facilities survive. Their survival allowed the US to quickly turn around and get right into the war. Also the aircraft carriers were not at Pearl (they were delivering aircraft to Wake Island). If the carriers had been in the harbor, and the third wave had been launched, WWII could have turned out very differently.
The National Park Service is going to dedicate a new memorial for the USS Oklahoma which had 400 dead after she rolled. She had been torpedoed.
see http://www.nps.gov
I agree that terrorism is not the same kind of sovereign threat at this point in time. However, the similarities between the Japanese and terrorists make them equally dangerous. Both will continue to fight even after they’ve technically lost the war. They will sacrifice their own lives in order to take just one more life. They will fight for honor even if their ultimate goal is impossible. This strategy was repeated over and over by the Japanese long after their country was utterly destroyed. Terrorists are the same kind of enemy in that respect.
rugger #45 Thanks for using this thread to “bash” Bush. I could counter-point your arguments but, I would rather use this thread to remember my dad, who recently passed, on this day. And all the other veterans. He was a comrade in the Pacific of President Bush #41 and even though he never voted for either one he never spoke ill of his service. Taking off and landing on an aircraft carrier or chasing Japanese subs no “wimp” factor there.
If it’s any consolation (or to make matters worse, depending on how you look at it), Japanese kids today are not taught about that period of history either. Many have no idea of the significance why they are asked to fold thousands of paper cranes for the spirit of little Sadako who died of leukemia. And I’ve met college students there who had no idea the U.S. and Japan were ever at war till they saw the movie Pearl Harbor. Ignorance is bliss for today’s kids who then want to turn around and scold us for not driving the right kind of car or using the right kind of light bulbs. >p
Rugger what if the terrorists blew up about 20 of our largest cities all at the same time by nuclear devices? Would you call this terrorism and would this act threaten the nation? Yes FDR did unite the nation and thank God we had a democrat like FDR, HST, and not the McGovern types we have now. Yes I believe we are in as big a threat as we were in 41 and you just don’t seem to see it.
Yeah, an oil embargo that was put in place due to Japan’s expansionist policies into the Pacific and the invasion into China and the slaughtering it was doing of the civilians in both places. If you are going to tell the reasons, tell the entire reasons. As for the “time differences”, it wasn’t the reason, it was due to the incompetence of the Japenese councular and the typing up and the interpretation of the message. It was delayed in getting it to the Secretary. Even so, handing it to the Secretary moments before the attack would have had no significant impact other than to be able to say it wasn’t a sneak attack. It was purely a political thing and would have not impacted the lives lost in any significant way. It was, for all intents and purposes, a surprise attack, and an unproviked one. It also was one that Hitler did not want as he was still hoping to broker a peace with England so as to enlist their help to fight against the Soviets. Hitler knew that once the United States entered the war, there would be no hope for getting Britain to surrender and join in against the Soviets so it was precisely the OPPOSITE of what he wanted.
But thanks for demonstrating exactly what was meant about the revisionist view of what happened on Dec. 7, 1941
Well whose responsibility is it to teach them? That would be we parents…unfortunately, we (as a generation) have dropped the ball on educating our children about the history of our country and the difference between right and wrong.
I am truly saddened to see any hint of BDS in this thread. The men and women honored on this day don’t deserve it. My dad was on the Missouri when they signed the surrender and it moved him to tears more than once. He was on the Missouri when it visited Seattle years ago with my sister and she said he had wandered off and they found him in a room that was a memorial and he was weeping. My dad was a strong guy but, this war and the things he saw and did bothered him till the very end. The Japanese did some horrible things to our guys that most of them will NOT talk about. I tried to get him to open up and he always changed the subject. I still don’t know much about his war experience other than it changed him not only as a man but as a human.
May the memory of this day live forever in the hearts of free men everywhere. To be free is not a cliche or another buzzword - the fact that we can do just this without fear that Chavez or Ahmadinajad will send his cronies to silence you tells you we are indeed free.
Keep that in mind when you are having your coffee - remember those who gave their all for you - it will humble the hell out of you.
Bollivar:
Your father was a great and wonderful man and it truly is a shame that so many of these men could not share their stories due to the pain it brought. I thank him with every fibre of my being for all he gave to me and my family. the years he spent serving in that war was a sacrifice he can never get back, but know that it was a sacrifice that this American is honestly thankful for and always remembers on a daily basis and teaches the truth to his children in unwatered down, non-PC fashion, including all the attrocities that were committed by the enemy to our service men and the Chinese and Pilippinos. (My wife being 25%). If he is still alive, and if it matters to him, thank him for me. It mst have been phenominal to have been there during the signing. My grandfather on my mother’s side was a cook in the navy who died when I was 6 weeks old, and her uncle, my grandmothers brother flew a corsir. He flew the first recon over Nagasaki after the bombing. He would never speak of it. Just said it was awful and that was it. I could never hear from them either. And I am someone who studies deeply WWII history.
garyt– That is not an eminent threat. It is something we should work to prevent, but the idea of 20 nukes going off in America is not a threat that most people see as likely in the very near future. The same cannot be said of of Japanese invasion, or the threat of Germany’s growing power if we didnt make Europe our priority.
bolivar– if that was a shot at me mentioned the difference between the calls issued by FDR and Bush, I can assure you that is not BDS, but a legitimate criticism of Bush’s call for us to simply act like nothing happened. He was the one who told us to go have our coffee (tho I personally dont drink coffee, I find it gross).
And do not think that I do not appreciate the sacrifices of the members of our armed forces. I am a fan of history, but WWII has been the focus of my interest since I was a young kid. Our sailors, soldiers, airmen and marines did amazing work. They continue to do so to this day. Oh and the guys fighting the war today are the same 18, 19 and 20-somethings that this threat has criticized over and over again. That is what I have a problem with.
That criticism is what I have a problem with.
“Here Comes the Navy” correction.
It’s on TCM on Dec 12 @ 10am
Fireman, in your last sentence you did indeed clarify exactly what I meant. I refer you to the first response posted on this thread.
My point only was that they did indeed feel justified for their actions. They took a stand, they rolled the dice and they lost. The event itself was and remains a tragic day in American history. However, I doubt many Americans would actually stand up to the threat as they have in the past. We have many fine men and women who have taken our place in the Armed Service of this nation as did the men in my family (Including me) when we were of an age to do so.
In some minds, any actions can be justified. A quick glance at what our nation has become should confirm that without any doubts.
As for Tn. Dave, they may have been the first there by volunteer service in the military but they were not the first Americans in China to fight the Japanese aggression. Unfortunately, not living in the USA and not having access to my Grandfather’s 23,000 history books (Most of them are in Museums or libraries of our once great Universities) I cannot validate this fact. However, wikipedia remains a questionable source for information at best though that does appear accurate. However, rest assured that there were also military advisers (Observers) there prior to that and also some American volunteers who were not formally sanctioned by the Government.
My point is not now and never was to justify the attack, only to say that many minds can justify anything. Also, I said what I did to point out that the Japanese did, at the time, feel fully justified in their actions.
Again, I refer you back to the first post. If you should wish to compare DD214s, Historical knowledge or feelings of patriotism, I am open to debate (And personal attacks if you feel compelled to bring emotion into the equation) but not in this forum. My site can be found easily enough. This forum should remain a tribute to the bravery and sacrifice of those that were there on the day in reference.
IMHO
Too busy on Friday to see this thread and post.
Suffice it to say that this crusty AF Sergeant could not have been prouder at his son’s graduation from Navy boot camp one week ago Friday.
Go Navy.
Kevlaur