The CIA’s destroyed interrogation videos, what the Dems knew, and when; Update: What Harriet knew
Update 12/8 10:00am Eastern: What Harriet Miers knew.
And Ed Morrissey takes a closer look at what Reps. Silvestre Reyes and Pete Hoekstra say they did and didn’t know.
***
Update 1:05pm Eastern. Tom Maguire: “This ongoing selective outrage by the Congressional overseers is ridiculous.”
Par for the course.
***
It’s the top news at Memeorandum this morning. The New York Times reported yesterday:
The Central Intelligence Agency in 2005 destroyed at least two videotapes documenting the interrogation of two Al Qaeda operatives in the agency’s custody, a step it took in the midst of Congressional and legal scrutiny about the C.I.A’s secret detention program, according to current and former government officials.
The videotapes showed agency operatives in 2002 subjecting terror suspects — including Abu Zubaydah, the first detainee in C.I.A. custody — to severe interrogation techniques. They were destroyed in part because officers were concerned that tapes documenting controversial interrogation methods could expose agency officials to greater risk of legal jeopardy, several officials said.
The C.I.A. said today that the decision to destroy the tapes had been made “within the C.I.A. itself,” and they were destroyed to protect the safety of undercover officers and because they no longer had intelligence value. The agency was headed at the time by Porter J. Goss. Through a spokeswoman, Mr. Goss declined this afternoon to comment on the destruction of the tapes.
The newspaper expresses its explicit hope that its scoop on the tapes will “reignite the debate over the use of severe interrogation techniques on terror suspects, and their destruction raises questions about whether C.I.A. officials withheld information about aspects of the program from the courts and from the Sept. 11 commission appointed by President Bush and Congress.” But remember: Bill Keller tells us that he and his reporters “are agnostic as to where a story may lead; we do not go into a story with an agenda or a pre-conceived notion.” Uh-huh. The news just happens to be perfectly timed as the Supreme Court hears a Gitmo case and, as the WaPo, notes, on the same day “House and Senate negotiators reached an agreement on legislation that would prohibit the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics by the CIA and bring intelligence agencies in line with rules followed by the U.S. military.”
So, how bad is it? The Left is going bananas–with one its most unhinged bloggers now dubbing America a “Banana Republic.” It is bad. Center and right-leaning bloggers are weighing in. James Joyner points out that “People have gone to jail for obstruction of justice for actions much, much less brazen than this.” Ed Morrissey believes the tape destruction “looks a lot more like destroying evidence than tightening security.” Rick Moran concludes “Any way you slice it, someone needs to be held accountable for the tape’s destruction.”
It is worth noting that the CIA actually informed members of Congress about the tapes four years ago and also informed them in advance about their intention to ultimately destroy the tapes. One leading Democrat admits he knew about the destruction of the tapes last fall. Via AP:
Rep. Jane Harman of California, then the senior Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, was one of only four members of Congress in 2003 informed of the tapes’ existence and the CIA’s intention to ultimately destroy them.
“I told the CIA that destroying videotapes of interrogations was a bad idea and urged them in writing not to do it,” Harman said. While key lawmakers were briefed on the CIA’s intention to destroy the tapes, they were not notified two years later when the spy agency actually carried out the plan. Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Jay Rockefeller, D-W.Va., said the committee only learned of the tapes’ destruction in November 2006.
They knew and they did nothing.
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Obviously – they are now nad have been a “do-nothing” congress. Why would this be any different? Wait until it becomes public knowledge, then react in outrage and point fingers, scream for heads to roll, and generally suck up to their far left patrons.
I have no problem with this. If we have a terrorist in custody, we should press them as hard as we can for information. Asking nicely will not work. Sitting around a campfire in our pajamas singing songs and holding hands won’t get it done either. Drastic times call for drastic measures. The bottome line is that we need to protect and defend our country and our countrymen from all enemies.
Take a close look at the sources they used for the story – Daniel Marcus for one. They fail to mention his left wing bias as evidenced by his many contributions to such folks as hillary, Landrieu, the DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE, and kerry among others. The an “R’ in the bunch
What’s interesting is that for a time he listed his occupation as “9-11 Commission” while making donations to the dems – way to maintain an air of impartiality…
a few reasons why they did nothing:
1) cause less is more (do nothing)
2) they really know these methods work and AQ is a real threat
3) they figured Bush would be blamed
4) they can always get out of the scrutiny of when did you know by blaming bush
and
5) it is all bush’s fault
#2 – I agree with you – I agreed to protect and defend my country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. When you’re in the middle of a war, you don’t sit down and have tea with a POW, especially if he has vital information. My thrust is the congress that will milk this for all its worth, trying to bring down this country (talk about domestic enemies).
On December 7th, 2007 at 9:30 am, gregorystephens said:
I have no problem with this. If we have a terrorist in custody, we should press them as hard as we can for information. Asking nicely will not work. Sitting around a campfire in our pajamas singing songs and holding hands won’t get it done either. Drastic times call for drastic measures. The bottome line is that we need to protect and defend our country and our countrymen from all enemies.
The campfire would work if the guest of honor was tied to a stake in the middle of it.
It’s not exactly true that the dems did nothing – they waited until the right time to bring the subject up to attack Bush and the real Americans who are trying to keep the country safe.
I note that the CIA destroyed the tapes exactly because they knew that if a liberal saw the tapes and they showed anything other than the CIA officer bowing down in supplication before the muslim, then it would be considered torture and the CIA interrogator would have his life destroyed by as many false charges and prosecutions as it took.
The New York Times–all the news that’s fit to print, as long as it fits our time schedule and political agenda.
The Democratic Party–we will object to anything, no matter when we knew about it, as long as it fits our time schedule and political agenda.
Timing is everything and like uhangtight said: “it is all bush’s fault.” At least that’s their excuse.
“We will leak no news before its time.”
“We will point no fingers before its time.”
“We will accuse no Bush before our time.”
1.
Har Har. Sullivan is a Republican. Not a conservative, mind you, but definitely a Republican.
2.
If you’re blaming Democrats for this, then you are the one who is “unhinged.” Republicans also knew and did nothing. I mean, in 2003 and 2006, Republicans were in the majority of both chambers. Who knows why Republicans didn’t do anything then. Who knows why the Democrats didn’t do anything since January, 2007. I imagine it has something to do with confidentiality issues.
Either way, this shows how important a free press is. Obstructing justice in this magnitude should have heads rolling.
And cpodug, your opinion isn’t very well thought out. Torturing our enemies is ineffective as a means of obtaining information and it puts our soldiers at risk. If we are truly the good guys here, we have to abstain from this behavior. Why stoop down to their level?
Did all 4 people read the article? You know, the subscribers.
Terror Frenzy
Whiskey
To be a liberal: “Oh, the feigned outrage!” They knew about it all along. The Democrat Clubterfuge continues.
Rusty,
Where did cpodug say anything about torture?? Did the tapes contain torture? What do you call torture? It could have been a bunch of guys standing around yelling at him for all we know.
I’m not condoning the destruction of the tapes but you are typical of liberals…assume America did the worst first rather than wait for any facts….nice….
The biggest problem with this issue is that the “greatest spy agency” in the world had to destroy a tape because they weren’t sure they could keep it secret.
What’s wrong with this picture?
-Rusty
Maybe so. But it’s the Dems who have been expressing outrage at the administration over interrogation methods (for the most part). In this case, since the administration can’t be blamed for the CIA’s actions, apparently it doesn’t matter as much to the Dems who knew.
I see Rightwingnuthouse agrees with the left about some torture aspects- waterboarding, loud music and sleep deprivation are all torture? Yes, let’s improve conditions at Gitmo and do a better job of kissing Muslims’ behinds. Don’t the prisoners already receive better food and amenities than the soldiers guarding them? The neutral NY Times stands for justice and the american way indeed. That’s why all the numerous front page stories about Abu Ghraib, for example?
That said, I am agnostic on destroying evidence. The left will always suspect the worse of America unless it is their own beloved Clinton or reasonable facsimile. No concerns at all about what our enemies are doing. Blame the US and Israel for every evil in the world. I was sitting in a room full of moonbats last night for a homeowners’ meeting. Really cracked me up that everything is still Bush’s fault, including inflation in Fla.
Re-write the rules and do what it takes, this isnt our grandfathers ballgame anymore. Terrorist’s do not follow any guidlines and kill thousands.
Do whatever it takes to get information! It will save lives, alot of lives. Geneva Convention, phooey.
Why is Rusty always concerned about justice for our enemies?
So your point is what? That there are no Republicans left of center? No Democrats right of center?
MM writes, about 4 Democratics:
The CIA destroys possible evidence of a crime, the crime being that its agents engaged in torture. But we are supposed to be angry at Rep. Jane Harman (D, Cal.) because she did not break her oath of secrecy and do what exactly? Or we can be angry with the NYTimes editorial page for expressing the hope that this incident will help the US turn against torture.
How about being angry at the perps: whose in the CIA who tortured and obstructed justice and committed perjury? And what about the guys at the top who may have directed the CIA to torture?
I am condoning the destruction of sensitive secret’s that could compromise a CIA agent or our intelligence method’s falling into the
Democrat’s or New York Timeswrong hands.Total Failure
Oh yeah.
IGNORE HIM
I had to say that LOL.
Dave #6
“The campfire would work if the guest of honor was tied to a stake in the middle of it.”
GREAT TOUCH!
As it continues to be the case about nearly everything the left does these days, insisting on being “nice” to animals who want to KILL us leaves me speechless. STOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do whatever is necessary to extract information. End of statement.
Rusty–
You have it backwards, don’t you? Sullivan is not a Republican, but he is a conservative–albeit a conservative who doesn’t condone torture and believes the US should live up to its Geneva Convention obligations, which was something (perhaps we could remember on Pearl Harbor Day) that the “Greatest Generation” of Americans also took seriously. In this age of morally cretinous party apparatchiks like MM and her Hallelujah Chorus of commenters, that makes Sullivan one of the most unhinged members of the left. One of the litmus tests of the Repbulican Party now is the support of torture. Unbelievable.
A TrooFer
As far as I am concerned our folks can do whatever is needed to get the information to stop these animals – I am tired of folks wringing their hands and panties, wake up, these barbarians want to kill you.
lol 30
Two Freaks
We will never find out, but I would like to know what information came out of those specific interrogations, and whether that helped the U.S. prevent any attacks on our country or our allies around the world. Some would say that “torture never works, so everything he said under duress isn’t reliable“, but the case of Kahlid Sheikh Mohammed belies this. He gave up lots of intel that directly resulted in preventing the London-U.S. airliner plot, saving the lives of everyone on those ten airplanes.
Whether waterboarding is torture, I don’t think it is. To me, torture involves inflicting pain through techniques that damage a person, and there would be some sadistic pleasure in doing it. Things like you might find in Saddam’s Iraq, or Hitler’s SS and Gestapo.
There is a big difference between waterboarding, or cold rooms, sleep deprivation, psychological pressure and what I would define as torture.
Burning with cigarettes, cigars, or even blowtorches
Stretching the limbs apart to the point of joint dislocation
Simple beating into submission
Crushing a finger at a time until you get an answer
Applying voltage to the body at slighlty less than lethal level
These are the things that come to my mind when you say “torture“.
Coersive interrogation is another matter entirely. That is designed to push the psychological limits of the HVT, while not crossing the line into what has always been known as “torture”, which often results in death from the damage inflicted. Coersive interrogation is different because no permenent damage is inflicted on the person.
Another point worth making is that these coersive techniques are not applied to very many detainees at all, only a handful who are judged to have critical information that might save lives.
The New York Times has a decades old practice of ideological reporting. Just start with Walter Duranty’s reporting from Stalinist Russia. Then go to the Times endless cheerleading for Yasser Arafat. The Times was so angry back in 2000 that Arafat was blamed for the failure of the Camp David talks that the Times assigned angry leftwing reporter Deborah Sontag to rehabilitate Arafat. This is what the Times does all the time.
How were the Dems supposed to “do something” when they didn’t control the House or the Senate? Where was the power to “do something”? File a lawsuit to stop the executive branch from *maybe* doing something they shouldn’t?
More importantly, why are so many of you more concerned with the Dems political moves than a CIA which either refuses to live under the rule of law (i.e., risk a federal judge might order the release AND an appeallate court wouldn’t stop them) or feels to incompetent to keep a transcript locked in a vault?
Leave it to this site for the beyond the looking glass view. The CIA destroys evidence of interrogation techniques, and this site gives these three words as summary-
“it is bad”.
Like jaywalking is bad, or…?
And of course, almost as few words on Bush’s incredible claim that he never asked about the NIE report on Iran. Either he’s lying or he’s so utterly incompetant it’s staggering.
Why does this site shrug at this? Why does this site try and turn these into partisan issues?
Don’t these issues affect all of us?
The Tarpon Fish are biting today.
Why are you guys more concerned with punishing our own intelligence officers, and using it to destroy your political adversaries than protecting this country from murdering terrorists, who would have no problem putting real torture on you and your family until you “submit” to the will of Allah?
Who is the enemy in this struggle, Al Queda or our own President and intelligence professionals?
That’s not so difficult to believe. These were real covert CIA agents (as opposed to Mrs. Wilson) whose lives could be endangered if their identities were revealed.
Too Funny
Mr. Liberal, the terrorists have your wife in an undisclosed location. We hate to have to tell you that we know that they have been raping and torturing her. Another cell of terrorists are apparently following your children and have small arms, RPGs and various explosives. They have publicly stated their intent to kill them. We also found an IED in your parent’s house, but we didn’t remove it because it is private property.
We have the mastermind in custody and are currently serving him tea and crumpets until he gives up the names of the other cell members, discloses the location of your wife, and tells us what color car the terrorists following your children are in. We have applied for a warrant to remove the IED from your parents home, but unfortunately, due to new guidelines, it will take 2-3 days to get it and in the meantime we can’t tell them about the IED because of federal confidentiality statutes. We’ll keep you updated on our progress.
To anyone who cites the Geneva Convention:
Please tell me when AQ signed the treaty.
Fuzzy Math for Trolls:
Severe Interrogation Techniques ≠ Torture
#38
Absolutely. We should not hold ourselves to a higher standard than a terrorist organization. We should all strive to comport ourselves at their level. Excellent point.
Why aren’t you! I still believe in the moral superiority of America I guess. How quaint.
The CIA broke the law. Read the links to the conservative blogs up there. What they did was unacceptable. And yet you people can only blame the Democrats and the New York Times? Really?
Give me a break.
As for assuming the worst of America…well, if it weren’t something illegal or potentially illegal, the tapes wouldn’t have been destroyed.
Today’ Friday
That is an obvious point that needs to be made, but further if they had signed it, they violate it in letter and spirit every second of every day, and therefore would not be covered by its protections because those protections apply to uniformed, openly armed soldiers representing a nation-state, and endeavoring in combat to follow the guidelines in order to protect the innocent caught in the middle. The Islamists of all stripes, whether they be Sunni or Shia, aim their entire war strategy directly at slaughtering the innocent, to terrify the survivors into submission to their agenda. That is specifically named in the Geneva Conventions as worthy of execution on the spot, no trial necessary.
’s
Did you read this article at all? They said:
Read before commenting please, or quote where that part came from.
Thank you.
Deepdiver, if, I were an American soldier and I was tortured by my enemies, do you think I would give them correct information? People just say whatever it takes to get the torture to stop.
So your silly liberal snuff fantasies are, for the lack of a better word, stupid.
You know, you can keep America safe without selling our soul to do it. We’ve had only two major foreign attacks on our soil without resorting to torture. That’s an incredible track record. So don’t tell me we need to break the law to keep the country safe.
Wepeat Today’s Friday
No, no, no. We hold ourselves to a higher standard because we are better.
My point is that non-signatories to a treaty cannot claim any treaty protections.
That’s what the CIA says. I call BS. There was a subpoena out for these tapes and then they were destroyed. This was to protect their tail because they either
1. Did something wrong
B. Did something that might be wrong.
#37 deepdiver:
A perfect illustration of the idiocy – yes, I’ll say idiocy – that the leftists & socialists (for that is what they are, after all) support!
I was about to recommend
JUST
IGNORE
HIM (THEM)
about several of the recent posters;
however, upon reconsideration…their comments (and thus, I asssume, their thinking) are LOL humerous, albeit in an incredible, terrifying way.
It’s important and helpful, if not to respond to; at least to read the dangerous idiocy (as the old song title goes: there, I said it again) that unfortunately too many of our fellow citizens put forth…if only to be able to know who the enemy’s “useful idiots” (couldn’t help it, again – Lenin’s phrase, not mine) among us are.
To paraphrase:
If these useful idiots are not going to help us protect ourselves…if they are not going to lead, nor follow – then, at least, can they please get the hell out of the way?
Given that we don’t actually know what is on these tapes, why are the Trolls so convinced that because they were destroyed there must have been a crime recorded?
#42, et al
The echo chamber you usually live in isn’t loud enough for you today? Tough.
Also, is calling anyone who disagrees with your opinion on this site a troll truly your only argument?
Moral superiority does not change enemies into friends, nor enemy combatants into citizens. You’re not quaint, just plain old dumb.
I guess it’s ok to rip an unborn child from a mother’s womb and destroy that innocent life, but it’s not ok to aggressively question a terrorist. Liberals need to get a clue and a dose of reality!!!
Just not true. If the tapes were destroyed purely to protect the identity of covert operatives, that would invalidate your assumption.
If you were an American Soldier captured by your enemies, your torture would not involve water and air conditioners. It would involve blowtorches, power tools, breaking bones, castration with a rusty knife, all for the pleasure of watching the infidel suffer. No matter what you said to them, the torture would continue until you died from the accumulated damage done. Is this what you think our intelligence officers are doing?
#48
We either live up to a standard or we don’t. If we are better, that is.
deep diver, good example, but notice it goes right over the head of the Trolls..
but excellent, excellent point. brings it home..
Makes perfect sense to me. How could the CIA guarantee that Sandy Berger won’t visit after his temporarily-revoked security clearance is restored?
I think this was mentioned before:
severe interrogation techniques does not = torture!
I suspect that if you were tortured by our enemies you would spend the first 30 seconds arguing that you are really one of them, one of the brotherhood of man, and the next 3 hours telling them everything you know.
If a liberal tells you he’s got your back it is only so he can get your wallet while you are defending him.
We’ll have to agree to disagree there. I have no doubt that 1) we are better and 2) we do not torture.
What about convert, submit or die don’t several of you understand?
Could any of you please explain your superior reasoning as to why those three choices don’t apply?
Rusty (and the other liberals),
I hope that as the muslim terrorists are beheading you with the dull saw – that you stop whining about what torture really is.
Watershed’ Trueto Form
No one has addressed anything I’ve raised here. Why is that? Make too much sense?
Tiger #59:
You summed it up perfectly!
I think the Zubaydah tape may actually have been destroyed to protect “our friends the Saudis”. David Frum on his NRO blog today quotes Gerald Posner at some length, including: “After the U.S. told the Saudis and Pakistanis of Zubaydah’s finger pointing, all four men had tragic ‘accidents.’ The King’s nephew died of complications from liposuction at the age of 43. A day later, the 41 year old Prince named by Zubaydah died in a one-car accident on his way to the funeral of the King’s nephew. The third named prince, age 25, died a week later of “thirst,” according to the Saudi Royal Court. And shortly after that, the chief of Pakistan’s air force died when his plane exploded with his wife and 15 of his top aides on board.” Posner concludes: “Make the interrogation tapes public and then we’ll know whether one of the top al Qaeda operatives accused leading Saudi royals and a top Pakistani military man – now all dead – of being his sponsors. And accused two of them – the King’s nephew and the Pakistani air force chief – of having advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. Now, suddenly coincidence of coincidence, the CIA says the Zubaydah interrogation tapes are destroyed. How convenient.”
These guys are the enemy. They would destroy and kill as much of America as we would allow them. They are fortunate that they did not get killed when they were captured. Once they were captured they were handled as gently as any enemy combatant with vital intel in history.
I wish that the left would get a grip on who the enemy is. Here’s a hint. It’s not America.
On December 7th, 2007 at 11:08 am, Brian72 #65
I think most of us just agree with you and are nodding our heads and the others just don’t get it.
#63
I don’t wish beheading on anyone.
Good luck with that.
I see the FOMM are in rare form and very creative today…
I have to laugh:
What? No outrage that someone who allegedly knew something illegal was taking place didn’t come forward to challenge this?
If Jane Harman was an Administration official – the left would be calling for her prosecution and firing and a ‘frog-march’.
Also:
I would love to hear the logic behind this one – do you truly believe that if the USA employed ZERO modified interrogation techniques – that our enemies wouldn’t torture US soldiers?
If you believe that – you’re blind.
I’m with you on one thing Rusty, those CIA guys who did this should be punished, if destroying the tapes constitutes destruction of evidence pertaining to criminal activity.
But I still think the point that the Dems only care about these issues when they can paint the administration negatively (to wit, no outrage about this from the Dems who knew) is valid.
#53 bipartisancomplainer
Good point. I think Sun Tzu, von Clausewitz, and other authorities on the subject of war probably would have had a pretty dim view of the idea of some illusory ‘moral high ground’.
I’m not arguing that al-Queda, the NVA, and anyone else who tortures and maims isn’t evil. I’m not arguing that beheading is the moral equivalent of waterboarding.
I’m saying that if America truly wants to set an example to the rest of the world, that we have to abstain from torturing people. No matter what they do to us, we will never stoop down to anything remotely approaching their level.
Oh, come on now. Harman wrote a letter. Just like his buddies in that paradigm of good governence and forceful responses that is the U.N. would do. You can’t blame him for thinking that a harshly worded letter would work, after all, it works all the time for the U.N.
Right – and being respected is much more important than defeating our enemies.
Totally False
Why are we more worried about the example we set for the rest of the world than we are for the safety and security of our citizens and servicemen?
and by him, in reference to Jane Harman, I’m mean her. For whatever reason I read it as Jim Harman. My bad
Collusion didn’t work for the Vichy French and it won’t work for the American Left.
I aimed my above comments at the waterboarding-is-the-new-inquisition crowd here, and got no response. Telling. Then I noticed I got no agreement either, and wondered if anyone read any of it! Glad to see someone was paying attention!
Here’s the problem. We do not torture. We do nothing remotely approaching their level. And yet America is still vilified.
Rusty
Again, you’re assuming the worst, maybe the CIA was ACTUALLY TRYING TO PROTEST THEIR AGENTS and I ask again, why do you ASSUME their is torture on those tapes, no one ever said there was (except you)
I won’t defend them destroying evidence but you’re still making assumptions and it ain’t the benefit of the doubt type..
their=there pimf.
Feeding trolls is Torturing FOMM
The NYT can blame itself for this. If the CIA thought that journalists cared about national security, than they probably would have kept the tape. But they were smart enough to know that if the tape got out, it would be plastered everywhere, national security and the safety of the interrigators be damned.
Can someone please reconcile the two statements?
1) American interrogators practice torture
2) Torture is demonstrably ineffective
The implication is that American interrogators deliberately employ ineffective techniques. Why on earth would these highly-trained professionals, motivated to extract useful information from the enemy, persist in tactics that do not work?
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
#37 and #50 THANK YOU.. That was said very well.
EXACTLY
.
Imagine they have your family somewhere nearby. You know it, and have the terror/kidnapping leader in your house, under your complete control.
What would you do to get your family back? Give him a Koran and then just ask nicely?
.
Well, these terrorists are killing someones mom right now, somebody’s brother tomorrow, many sisters, fathers, someones CHILD will be KILLED TODAY.
The islamo-terrorists have a history of BEHEADING ANYONE FOR NO SANE REASON. THEY MUST BE STOPPED. PERIOD.
THIS IS THE REALITY!
.
We Never stoop ‘to their level’ yet they do these things daily. We should do whatever it takes to stop them from barbaric acts. If we don’t, they will continue for years and years.
TEN AIRPLANES were going to be exploded over the oceans, so no evidence could be found…so the bad guys could continue to kill with the same liquids again and again. We stopped them, using interrogation. IT WORKS.
Pull your head out of your xxx!!!!
.
Who knows what Sandy Burglar stole wasn’t much more damaging and harmful to our country? It’s OK to steal from the NATIONAL ARCHIVE if your protecting the Clinton mob? Anyone?
Brian72, your posts did not go unnoticed. watershed, rusty and responses to Brian’s posts?
Tooty Fruity
On December 7th, 2007 at 11:29 am,
damn you correcting my various grammer and spelling errors!!!!
..but I’m glad you were able to decipher what I wrote. That’s what happens when you write something once, get a page can’t load message, and then quickly write it again. OOPS!
The dems fell for another Bush trap. This is great. Watch, more hearings with nothing to come from them.
They only want to limit the discussion to this one CIA incident, to expose conservatives as torture-lovers, and damage Bush. When you try to expand the discussion to the larger struggle the jihadists have launched against us, and what we should do about it, they have nothing to say. Just Bush, Bush, Bush.
They do not seem to care that waterboarding has saved lives of innocent people from many countries, and it is much different than what has traditionally been known as “torture”.
This isn’t about national security to these people, it’s purely political, and that’s a shame in my opinion.
Correct.
#94:
Awaiting your response to:
Seriously.