Sunday horror: Church shootings in Colorado; gunman killed by armed female church security staffer; Update: Church volunteer rushed toward the gunman; victims ID’d; Who is the shooter?; Gunman reportedly ID’d; Update: Gunman reportedly “hated Christians;” Update: The hero is Jeanne Assam; Vietnam vet parishioner assisted
Via 7News Denver
Update 12/10 7:30pm Eastern. A hero revealed:
Jeanne Assam appeared before the news media for the first time Monday and said she “did not think for a minute to run away” when a gunman entered the New Life Church in Colorado Springs and started shooting.
Assam appeared before the media with applause and said “God guided me and protected me.”
She described how the gunman, Matthew Murray, entered the east entrance of the church firing his gun. “There was chaos,” Assam said, as parishioners ran away. “I saw him coming through the doors” and took cover, Assam said. “I came out of cover and identified myself and engaged him and took him down.”
Assam had several years of experience in law enforcement and is licensed to carry a weapon. She attends one of the morning services and then volunteers as a guard during another service.
“I give credit to God,” Assam said. “God was with me. I didn’t think for a minute to run away.”
Assam was assisted by a fellow churchgoer, Vietnam Veteran (via the Denver Post):
Larry Bourbonnais, a combat-tested Vietnam veteran, said it was the bravest thing he’s ever seen.
Bourbonnais, who was among those shot by a gunman Sunday at New Life Church, watched as a security guard, a woman later identified as Jeanne Assam, calmly returned fire and killed the shooter.
“She just started walking toward the gunman firing the whole way,” said Bourbonnais, who was shot in the arm. “She was just yelling ‘Surrender,’ walking and shooting the whole time.”
Read the whole thing.
Update 12/10 6:00pm Eastern. More details about the vengeful gunman:
The gunman believed to have killed four people at a megachurch and a missionary training school had been thrown out of the school about three years ago and had been sending hate mail to the program, police said in court papers Monday. The gunman was identified as Matthew Murray, 24, who was home-schooled by his family and raised in what a friend said was a deeply religious Christian household. Murray’s father is a neurologist and a prominent multiple-sclerosis researcher.
Update 12/10 5:03pm Eastern. The gunman “hated Christians?” Officials did not identify Matthew Murray’s own religion yet.
John Hinderaker: “It is perhaps worth noting that the toll in Sunday’s shootings exceeded the combined total in all “hate crimes” against Muslims in the six years since September 11.”
Update 12/10 2:20pm Eastern. 9News ID’s the alleged gunman…
The identity of the gunman in the shooting at a 10,000-plus member mega-church has been uncovered by 9Wants to Know.
9Wants to Know has learned 24-year-old Matthew Murray was killed after opening fire at New Life Church on Sunday.
Murray was home schooled and his last known address was at his parents’ home in unincorporated Arapahoe County – the same home investigators searched Sunday night.
Update 12/10 12:57pm Eastern. Video update on the connection between the two shootings here.
The question everyone’s asking: Who is the shooter?
We have no name, no details yet.
Update 12/10 11:05am Eastern. New Life Church Pastor Brady Boyd is speaking to the media right now. He reports that the female church security guard rushed toward the gunman in the building when she heard shots ring out. She was stationed at a rotunda. She has a law enforcement background. “She probably saved a hundred lives.” They put the security/evacuation plan in place after hearing about the first church attack. Volunteers joined security details. Armed security all have licenses to carry.
Pastor Boyd: “We’re so grateful to God for giving us the wisdom to do that.”
Very sad news: Two teen victims who died in the attacks were identified this morning, via the Colorado Springs Gazette…
Police identified two teenagers today who were killed in the attack on New Life Church on Sunday.
According to a statement to media outlets this morning, the dead were 18-year-old Stephanie Works and 16-year-old Rachael Works.
The other shooting victims included:
David Works, 51, who suffered two gunshot wounds to the abdomen. He was listed in fair condition at Penrose Hospital.
Judy Purcell, 40, who suffered a gunshot wound to the right shoulder. She was treated at the hospital and released.
Larry Bourbannais, 59, who suffered a gunshot wound to the left forearm. He was treated at the hospital and released.
Update 12/10 8:30am. The gunman was wearing a tactical helmet and body armor.
***
By now, you’ve read about the two tragic church shootings incidents in Colorado earlier today. What you may not have heard about is how the gunman at the second church was reportedly stopped:
A gunman killed two staff members at a missionary training center early Sunday after being told he couldn’t spend the night, and about 12 hours later four people were shot outside a megachurch in Colorado Springs.
Colorado Springs police Lt. Fletcher Howard said a suspect had been detained in the shootings outside the New Life Church. Authorities in Arvada, a Denver suburb about 65 miles north, said no one had been captured in the shootings there.
It was not immediately known whether the shootings were related, but Arvada authorities said they were sharing information with Colorado Springs investigators. The mission training program has a small office at the church’s World Prayer Center on the New Life campus.
Howard declined to say whether the Colorado Springs suspect had been shot. Police sealed off the church, but it was not clear whether any parishioners were still inside.
A gunman in a black trench coat and a high-powered rifle entered the church’s main foray about 1 p.m. and began shooting, according to a source who was locked down inside the New Life campus Sunday afternoon. The source spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because police asked that they release all information.
The church’s 11 a.m. service had recently ended and hundreds of people were milling about when the gunman opened fire. Nearby were parents picking up their children from nursery.
The gunman was shot and killed by a female member of the church’s armed security staff, the source said.
More details:
It was not immediately known whether the shootings were related, but Arvada authorities said they were sharing information with Colorado Springs investigators. The mission training program has a small office at the church’s World Prayer Center on the New Life campus.
Gov. Bill Ritter ordered state authorities to assist in the investigation.
A gunman in a black trench coat and a high-powered rifle entered the church’s main foyer shortly after 1 p.m. and began shooting, Myers said.
The church’s 11 a.m. service had recently ended, and hundreds of people were milling about when the gunman opened fire. Nearby were parents picking up their children from the nursery.
Police arrived to find the gunman had been killed by a member of the church’s armed security staff, Myers said.
“There was a courageous staff member who probably saved many lives here today,” Myers said.
The FBI and the ATF were assisting in the investigation. Officers were combing the campus looking for suspicious devices.
“We had a plan in place, and it worked well,” said Boyd, who in August took over from disgraced pastor Ted Haggard. “Many, many lives were saved today because of some quick, action by the many volunteers here at the church.”
Amid the horror, a glimmer of good news: The culture of self-defense may have saved untold lives.
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Trackbacks
- Greater Shooting Disaster Averted at Colorado Church at Traction Control
- Slapstick Politics
- Tragedy in Colorado Could Have Been Worse, If Not For an Armed Guard. : The Sundries Shack
- Webloggin - Blog Archive » Christians Killed at Colorado Missionary, Armed Guard Saves Lives at Separate Colorado Srings Church Shooting, Libs blame Bush
- GINA COBB
- CDR Salamander
- dispatches from TJICistan » Blog Archive » sell your cloaks and buy swords
- Misc Chatter « The Reluctant Optimist
- Self-Defense « Wilson Fu
- Snowflakes in Hell » Blog Archive » Colorado Church Shooting Stopped by CWP Holder
- Daily Pundit » Second Amendment Is First
- BobGriggs.com » Michelle Malkin » Sunday horror: Church shootings in Colorado; gunman killed by armed female church security staffer
- small dead animals
- Banter in Atlanter
- Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Colorado church shootings are probably connected
- ShrinkWrapped
- Verum Serum
- Right Voices » Blog Archive » Church Gunman ‘Hated Christians’
- Followup on the Colorado Shootings « Tai-Chi Policy
- Mark Nicodemo
- Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler » Teachable Moments in Legal Carry and Self-Defense
- Vengeful gunman comes to his end « Full Metal Cynic
- Report: Same Gunman at Church and Missionary Training Center at Traction Control
- Michelle Malkin » Colorado Christian slayer update: Gunman died of self-inflicted gunshot wound
- JEANNE ASSAM UPDATE FROM THE LOVELY MICHELLE MALKIN « Democrat Equals Socialist
- Gun Wielding Maniac Attack: Conservative vs Liberal Result « BUUUUURRRRNING HOT
- Time Immortal (ferro ignique gesta res) » Blog Archive » Church security officer returns fire during shooting
- dodge denver
- To you 2nd Amendment freaks out there ... - Page 12
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I love her.
Thanks for the update Michelle. I have been following this story since about 2:00 pm MST when I first saw the news. It is a sad state of affairs that this church required armed security, but thank God someone had foresight to be prepared. Once again a trained and armed individual was able to save lives by being able to respond with an equal level of violence used by the attacker. If any thing this is a lesson of a responsible armed citizenry being able to protect their own lives and the lives of their neighbors.
The next couple of days will tell what caused this new level of violence against Christian organizations and if the incidents in Colorado were related or just a strange coincidence. Our prayers to the victims and their families during this difficult time.
God loves everyone but leaves self-protection up to each of us. In some case, I don’t know how, divine intervention happens but in all others it pays to be prepared.
Think the MSM is gonna give any time to the fact SHE was able to stop this because she was armed???
Highly unlikely!
Bless her heart and her good aim!!!
Do you think she took time to evaluate his feelings? Did she consider that he might have been misunderstood as a child? Or did she act to defend her church?
..I hope she had a good grouping
I wonder if the “Brady Bunch” will have the courage to admit that lives were saved precisely because the church isn’t a gun-free zone…
*crickets*
Finally!!!!
It would be interesting to know if the lady had a conceled carry permit. Or was she an armed guard. Which ever the case may be - good for her. May the shyster lawyers be kept away from her.
I hope she gets good counseling. Even law enforcement has a hard time dealing with a “good shoot”. Being forced to be judge,jury, and executioner in a moment would be hard for anyone to deal with.
Concealed Carry Permit…get one if you own a weapon and meet the criteria.
BZ to the guard!
It will be interesting to see who this or these people are. It is introducting a whole new dynamic here in the USA. Where would anyone get an idea or feeling of hostility toward Christians or evangelicals!!?? /s
Certainly not from CNN types asking sarcastically to Huckabee if he believed God created the heavens & the earth. Or many other MSM secularists so afraid of the words God, prayer, faith or heaven forbid–sin! Oh my!
Yes, good news that another nightmare was cut short. Thank God for quick decisive action. Pray for her and all involved.
I don’t think malls and such need full time armed guards but a secure armory to draw weapons from in an emergency would be a fine idea.
I have had many friends that belonged to YWAM, the group that runs the missionary camp. They go to some of the most dangerous places in the world and bravely preach the “true Gospel of Peace”.
I went to New Life church for a time back in 2004. No word yet as to if anyone I know there was injured, but thank God that the church is NOT a “gun free” zone. Otherwise it would have been a lot worse.
Fox News Channel has shown some interviews of officials this evening that indicate they are now thinking it is very possible that the same individual was responsible for both sets of shootings in Colorado …
The witness descriptions of the shooter in both cases are very similar, as well as the fact the perpetrator was dressed totally in black in both incidents …
I guess when they get some ballistics tests done we will hear whether or not the bullet markings match …
Arvada and Colorado Springs are only about 85 or 90 miles apart on different sides of Denver (Arvada is East and Colorado Springs is South) … so it would be an easy drive between the two on the Interstate highways (70 and 25) …
That’s why I say Hey ma’am: nice shot.
Nice shot, ma’am.
#9 sounds like he has sympathy for the deceased deranged assassin. Thank God that lady didn’t hesitate to take action. Yes, I know it means less money for some shrinks to analyze the aberrant behavior, lawyers and assorted jetsam and flotsam of the media for appeals and all that. Good riddance to another mutant. Guess there will be no Mumia redux. Of course I’m sure the Hollywood moonbats will be upset. Boo hoo. I still feel bad about all those Mennonite school girls who were slaughtered in THAT “gun free zone” some years back since I’m familiar with that area and their gentle, trusting nature.
Disarmament zones only put the innocent at risk.
Thank you, ma’am.
I’ve been covering this story since the first shooting broke at 9am MST. Here was the first moonbat comment on the shooting:
Not sure but I believe this one a rifle was used and a handgun at the other.
gollumclone#18,
No sympathy here for a murderer. Just concern for the brave women that saved many lives by acting quickly.
@ #20 elpresidente: What a perfect example of the “tolerance” the left has.
I may be missing something here, but what kind of a church needs an armed security staff?
All I want for Christmas is my CCP, my CCP, my CCP.
Good for her! She saved many lives, I’m sure.
Momma
May God be with those who lost a love one……..as for the woman who acted swiftly, thank you!!!!!
Police now believe that the shootings may be linked.
It would be interesting to know if the “security staffer” was a LEO or an ordinary armed citizen.
In many states, it is ILLEGAL for a non-LEO to carry in a church, permit or not.
After checking at http://www.handgunlaw.us, it appears that it IS legal in Colorado for a permitted person to carry in a church.
These incidents illustrate why concealed carry by responsible citizens needs to be legal EVERYWHERE.
RE #20: You see, the left isn’t against all firearms use. It just depends on who is being murdered. Of course, there will be scant reporting on a private individual stopping the bad guy. That wouldn’t fit the leftist paradigm.
#20 elpresidente
that makes me sick. literally sick to my stomach.
-liz
Sorry, I just couldn’t resists.
- (s).
#29
Sadly this type of vitrol is normal for the antigun crowd. Check out the brady group and you will see what gun owners have been putting up with for years.
Personally; I tip my Sig in honor of the guard who fought back reminiscent of the Scotsman way of being armed at all times.
May Yeshua bless her and bring His peace to the congregation during this time of Advent.
GSP
I live about a mile from YWAM which is part of Faith Bible Chapel and walk through the park behind it regularly. There is no way the shooter was a stranger to the church, the ministry is in 2 residential houses tucked in the neighborhood behind the church and a strip mall/grocery store. You can’t see them from the street and a stranger would assume that they are just residences.
It’s about an hour and a half drive from here to the Springs, longer last night because of the snow. I sincerely hope it was the same shooter in both cases. That would mean that the courageous security guard put an end to it for our neighborhood too.
People must defend themselves, the police can’t/won’t. The shooting took place at about 12:30am, the reverse 911 call came at 2:46am. If the shooter really was roaming our neighborhood, the call came too late for people to secure themselves or help report anything suspicious. Our house is a 15-20 minute walk from there through the park.
Our thoughts are with the families of the young adults lost today. Sadly, this is the second shooting on that corner in 6 months. A former employee of the local Burger King and his friends shot and killed their female coworker when they robbed the place. There was also a fatal car accident a few months ago, a block away. And this is an upper-middle class neighborhood with a low crime rate. I guess it’s not so low this year.
Hi Michelle,
Elpresidente has done a fine job keeping us updated on this story. Thank you for covering it too.
I hope this doesn’t start a wave of mentally ill people wanting to get their name in infamy like Hawkins. I tip my hat to the security guard; I know it will be tough in the next few days. In our violence oriented society (movies, tv, news), armed citizens may be the only answer.
Michelle,
Thanks for the links. I’m tracking for my local metroblogging site. I’m still in shock here in Aurora. I was out in Longmont (opposite direction of CO Springs) about an hour away.
Next Sunday and the ones after are probably going to be different in RE: Security.
Now we need security in churches?
It is sad that we need security in Churches but I do not think we should stop it there. CCW or armed citizens stop many crimes every year. Unfortunately, there are going to be people wanting to put her on trial now. That is the part that really makes me ill. I hope she does indeed receive support. I am afraid she will need it on more than one front now.
I know it does not often help to those who have been there, but try and think of the lives that were saved by that action rather than the life that was taken.
Thank you!
From a friend who attends NIU (Northern Illinois University, for the folks in Rio Linda):
http://www.niu.edu/alert/campus_alert.shtml
$5 says it was a CHL-holding private citizen volunteer.
In El Paso County, CO? Highly unlikely.
I pray you are right Tank, I really do. Still, as America sinks deeper and deeper into the PC quagmire, I have more than just a few doubts surfacing.
Without that security guard, how many more would have died? Think on that.
The right woman in the right place at the right time.
May her exemplary service be recognized by us all, and may God grant her peace of mind for her actions. I’m certain it is not always easy to accept the taking of a life, even of a worm who does not deserve to live.
Thank you for saving many lives, dear lady.
The right to self-defense is a God-given one.
Unfortunately, yes.
I hope the media gives this fact the attention it deserves, although I can hear the alternative headlines now:
“Who’s packing heat in church?”, “Guns: Do they belong in places of worship?”, etc. I’m sure SOME anti-gun loon will lobby to have them outlawed.
My heart and prayers go to the victims of this tragedy, their loved ones, and their respective churches.
#41 tanksoldier
My thoughts too.
Probably an off duty LEO working security… but we’ll see.
If it was a CCW holder, the media will never report that. It definitely goes against their agenda to have a positive story angle concerning CCW’s.
It was indeed a terrorist attack, because the attacker had also planted IED’s around the New Life church premises.
Now, was the guy islamic, or just a leftwing lunatic egged on by the anti-Christian media.
BTW, just as an aside. What difference does it make if the person who ended the terrorist attack was male or female? If the “security guard” had been male, would everyone be saying a “male” security guard killed the terrorist?
I have resisted getting my CCP for years. I have weapons (I am a redneck after all) but never thought a CCP was necessary. I am having second thoughts. Malls, churches, schools…
I know I would NOT need counseling if I off’ed someone blasting away at kids in a school or mall or my church going friends.
GOD Bless this woman. She is obviously trained. You never point a weapon at anything unless you are ready to pull the trigger.
I will be praying for her as she will be hounded by people wanting her head for killing this killer and denying him his right to a fair trial.
I hate to point out the obvious but - isn’t it obvious that at least this church did?
Okay, what’s his name?
Wormfood.
AJ,
Wormfood - ROFL - stuck on food!
No, Montana. What’s his name? Usually the cops release that as soon as they ID a perp. They know who he is and they’re searching his home in Arapahoe County right now. So, what’s his name?
I know what you meant.
2 things;
It’s unfortunate that a church needs armed guards, that being said, Thank God this church had an armed guard.
Alot of officials were eager to speak with media yesterday, today very silent.
Speak softly and carry a loaded 45.
45 has great knock-down power. I think I will do my CCP and pack a 45.
May the Omaha and Virginia Tech perps give this perp an extra warm welcome upon his arrival in Hell.
To the security guard: God bless you for a job well done in saving lives. Thank God you and your speedy friends were there.
I can’t wait to hear the sermon at my church here in New Jersey next week. /sarcasm
I would think that churches and church-goers more than any other groups in American would understand the need to allow guns, at least concealed carry, in a church. The majority of people in churches believe in evil. Not TV evil, not global warming evil, but real biblical evil. The evil it takes to kill a half dozen people just so your name will be in the paper type evil.
Unfortunately, too many people in churches all over the country, with the best of intentions and the warmest of hearts, have refused to see the evils in our midst, have encouraged other evils in the name of political correctness and inclusiveness and have stood behind the protection of millions who would save them. Too many churches and parishioners over the years have devolved to the point that they stand behind those protecting them singing “We shall over come” when their only real burden is providing donuts and coffee to those who defend their rights and their very lives. It used to not be that way.
So yes, we need guns in churches. Not one for everyone handed out as you walk in, but those who have made the effort to obtain a concealed carry permit should be allowed to carry in churches and every other darn place. Law abiding concealed weapons carriers are not the problem. If they want to shoot you they can shoot you in the parking lot, at the grocery or in 1,000 different locals where they can legally carry, because we all know that if someone intends to use their concealed firearm to commit a violent crime, they are only going to do that only in a location where they can legally carry their firearm.
Evil knows no boundaries, and our self-defense should not either. While it would be horrifying to shoot a bad guy in a church, it would be even more horrifying to sit unarmed as he slaughtered my family, friends and neighbors.
hear, hear deepdiver!
*claps for deepdiver
Well said, deepdiver.
Only in America it seems, sadly… another day, another load of shootings and someone even suggests an “Islamic” link - just as the mall shooter wasn’t last week.
Probably just another home grown terrorist…
Unfortunately, I believe that with all these recent shootings there will be an adverse impact on “the culture of self defense”. Most of the population will have a knee jerk reaction and start clamoring for doing away with guns. You know - “guns are bad”, “guns are evil”, “guns kill people”.
When situations like this occur, I don’t understand why there is never a public outcry to loosen gun laws and why there isn’t a mad dash to go out and buy guns for personal protection. Thats what saves lives. Exampled by this incident.
“Gun free zones” don’t save lives. Had these church staff members that were working security been restricted from carrying their weapons because of legislation, then we would have seen a blood bath. It would have been equal to that of the Virginia Tech shooting where the guy was just shooting fish in a barrel.
In my state, it was originally illegal to carry firearms in any church - that is until a small rural church got robbed and several people were shot and killed. Now legislation has passed that with expressed consent a concealed weapons permit holder can have their weapon on church grounds. Needless to say, that church is now providing their own security with CWP holders.
Its so sad that our gun laws in this country are made by people that know nothing about firearms. They don’t own guns and probably have never even fired a gun.
Can you imaging if the same were true in other areas of society? What if all the motor vehicle laws were made by people that had no idea about cars and probably had never even driven a car? There would be needless deaths occurring everyday. Well, the same is happening with respect to gun ownership and concealed carry. Its absolutely ridiculous.
I think it’s important because gun control laws strip all people - but especially women victims of domestic abuse - of the right to self defense. This woman used her Constitutional right to defend herself, her church, and her neighbors. She saved lives.
Other women need to realize that the Sally Field approach to issues of violence and war is naive and dangerous.
Someone I know has a friend whose ex-husband is a psycho. He wants the kids (mom has full custody) and has taken to harrassing and stalking them (with help from his equally crazy parents). Despite restraining orders, they show up and harras them, trying to get the kids. Here in Wisconsin, she cannot legally carry a gun to protect herself or her children, and it’s nearly impossible to get them arrested for violating the restraining order (and, even then, penalties are not severe).
It’s tragic. And remember, folks like Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell who are anti-gun have armed guards protecting them and their families. So, clearly, they think their lives and the lives of their children are more important than yours.
Believe me, even if my husband didn’t support my having a CCP, I’d get one as soon as I could - to defend him, my son, my parish, and anyone else who needed it.
They’re now saying that the New Life church beefed up security after the Arvada shootings. I don’t know if that means they always have security and just added more or not.
They were, however, better protected than the sheep at the mall with the unarmed security guards.
Even with good security you’re pretty much on your own to protect yourself. By the time any kind of security arrives, events are usually over. That’s why the police are useless to protect you.
I was live blogging this yesterday as it happened, as I live less than five minutes from the Arvada location.
It was initially reported that the Colorado Springs shooter had planted IED’s around the church. However, it was released last night that the IED’s were smoke generating devices… or smoke bombs.
Jim C
Sure, they are not having the same problem in Europe.
Thinkings Foggy
As to the security guard’s gender: I saw 2 news reports this morning on Fox News wherein they just said “security guard” with no gender specified.
You’re onto something there.
Throughout the history of mankind, NO gun has ever gotten up and gone on a shooting rampage by itself. In each and every instance, there must be an operator who willfully and knowingly uses the gun - a TOOL - in a violent manner.
Pretty much everything around you has the potential to be a deadly weapon. Your scissors, your car, a baseball bat, even a lamp can be fatal if willfully used in such a manner. And, in the past, people have used cars, baseball bats, etc. as murder weapons.
But we don’t see hysteria to regulate baseball bats because they’ve been used in commission of a crime.
If someone has decided that he/she is going to rob a bank or murder someone, clearly they have no regard for laws and will not be dissuaded by gun restrictions. Look at statistics from Washington DC and the UK - two places with tough anti-gun laws. Crime rates have gone up and crimes with other weapons (e.g., knives) have increased.
Here in Milwaukee, a delivery driver was fatally shot after the suspects called for a delivery with the intention of robbing the driver. And another driver was taken to court for carrying a weapon after he’d been robbed several times. Thankfully, the case was decided in his favor (despite Wisconsin’s constitution explicitly gives people the right to carry weapons).
So the notion that guns cause violence is bogus. Bad people, raise in a culture of moral relativity, cause violence.
I agree deepdiver. Unfortunately most people don’t really understand evil exists.
Eph. 6:12, We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Profile please-from which ethnic cauldron did the black clad shooter come?
They are going to continue to do testing-testing until we stand up and confront them in the courts,in the schools,counter-sue, and voting for people with guts enough to say enough of PC!
I’m talking about the left and …..!
Vagner
#70….Amen to that!
Locally, we have to get concealed carry law passed. The notion that the streets will become “like the old west” is invalid, as they already are dangerous. The only thing is the “good guys” aren’t allowed to lawfully defend themselves and others with the weapon of choice for the “bad guys”.
Nationally, can we please NOT mention the names of these losers who perpetrate these acts for the sole purpose of having their sorry lives recognized? Doing so only propagates these crimes, and that is sick.
This is the part that disturds me the most. I wonder if any one else is bothered as much as I am about the fact the Church had an armed guard on premisis (?).
What does this say about society if we have to have armed guards around a place of worship?
The shepherd has to protect the flock, and sadly perhaps, sometimes they even have to fight off the wolves.
Note that this is a 10,000+ member “mega-church”. Alot of people & alot of $ on premises.
I’m not at all disturbed that security was there. Good for them that they had her (and other armed guards) there. They called for extra security after the first shooting. She saved many lives by stopping this guy. I have already set up my class for CCP.
It’s only going to get worse.
Momma
“Disturds” Funny.
So you’re more disturbed by armed guards than random acts of violence? That’s disturbing. I’m the “armed guard” in my home. Do you have a problem with that as well?
How about the fact that there are people - evil people - who target churches? These people are more disturbing than the idea that people pack in church.
#77 On December 10th, 2007 at 11:17 am, Mommaofmany said:
“I’m not at all disturbed that security was there. Good for them that they had her (and other armed guards) there. They called for extra security after the first shooting. She saved many lives by stopping this guy. I have already set up my class for CCP.
It’s only going to get worse.
Momma”
You might very well be correct about the possibility of its getting worse.
Again, how many Muslim terrorist fifth-columnists or “sleepers” is it thought we might have lurking in the U.S.?
Despite the smart-ass remarks from #63 above (I know, I know, I should follow others’ and my advice and JUST IGNORE HIM), we would be fools not to rule out Muslim terrorism for each and every such attack from now on to the indefinite future.
Notice: There is a big difference between suggesting a Muslim terrorist link; and quietly, deliberately, RESPONSIBLY, and INTELLIGENTLY RULING OUT that possibility - again, in each and every one of these such attacks, in the present, and for the very long future.
It says that we as a society have bought into political correctness. It says that we have replaced unity and cohesiveness with diversity. It says that we have accepted the bad SCOTUS ruling stating that the First Amendments sets a wall of separation between church and state, when any 6th grader could read the First Amendment and clearly sees that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..” in no way says you can’t put up a Christmas tree on the publicly owned town square. It says that results “on the ground” agree with the statistics that Johnson’s Great Society destroyed many segments of our society by encouraging irresponsibility and slothfullness, and ingraining a mentality of entitlement to now 3 generations of human beings, human beings who will never know the joy of being a truly equal contributing member of society.
It says that when kids graduate school with a grade average of “purple” that they are a little pissed off when they find out that means nothing in the real world; that their bosses care about results, not process; about facts not opinion; and does not think that junior is a beautiful, unique snowflake, no matter what mommy, daddy and the school district told him/her for 18 years.
It says that WE, THE PEOPLE have given up freedom for security, and have finally reached the point that we are starting to have neither; that some of The People are starting to wake up to the very real danger of an evil world; and that maybe, finally, possible, hopefully good men are finally standing up instead of allowing evil to flourish by doing nothing.
Obviously it was a smart move because it saved countless lives. End of discussion!
deepdiver,
Are you Bears twin - LOL!
Great posts.
Are you trolls paying attention? This is how it is down. State your case, make a point and leave the talking-points with the politicians!
Its actually always better off for society when the crazies do get killed or they kill themselves:
-Don’t have to spend hundreds of thousands to take them to trial and imprison them.
-They will never be let out on parole by some loony liberal who thinks they have “paid their debt to society” and now they have been rehabilitated.
-No further acts of violence can be committed by the insane criminal if they are dead.
ZING!
That reads like he just lost two daughters, so he simply cannot be in fair condition, he’s suffering unimaginable anguish — send many prayers out for him and the rest of his family.
deepdiver-
Great posts today, alot your comments is simuliar to what I have been hearing from the NRA over the years.
As soon as I get my CCW, I will be carrying wherever I am allowed to. On the flip side-I will be avoiding businesses that have “gun free” zones posted. With the only exception being where I go to school.
GSP
Anyone know what type of gun was used in the shooting????
Did anyone else notice that in the Mall shooting in NE the police said it was an SKS that was used, but all the MSM outlets have been calling it an AK-47???
So, are they sensationalizing it or are they just going on the idea that most Americans don’t know what an SKS is???
Anti-Assualt weapons rhetoric - CHECK!
And there is a question as to WHY we should arm ourselves in church. I do not think he intended to give his life to the LORD but to kill as many people as possible. Why else would he need body armor?
My heart hurts for the loss of those daughters (a soft spot as I have 4).
Praying, loading, soon to be packing.
You go girl!!!!
Soap,
I have a Springfield Armory Ultra Compact .45 for carry. I love it. Springfield armory
Azygos,
Thanks. Checking now. Might as well ask for one for Christmas!
Soory for the poor editing in #91. The upper block is a quote from Sausage, the lower block should not be in quotes, they’re my comments. And here’s a link that’s not unrelated.
My preferred method of self-defense is my Marine Corps Ka-bar. Bullets don’t stop me.
The guerilla
Azygos,
The Old Math
6+1 @ .45 = 15+1 @ 9mm
Funny, English measure is still better than metric…
Well, I could always throw myself on the floor and hope the perp slips on me!
I think sausage is in the Minority. I served with plenty of Tommys in Iraq. Most of them were good to go, and I’m proud to have served with them. Don’t partake of the chorizo!!
I carry a Glock 26. 10+1 rounds of 147 gr. 9mm do me just fine.
Does anybody know what firearm Mrs. Malkin has?
/s/
jose