These are what true religious martyrs look like
Back in April, I noted the brutal murders of three Christians who worked at a Bible publishing house in Turkey who had their throats slit by vengeful Muslims. The alleged killers exulted: “Let this be a lesson to the enemies of our religion.” The trial of the five accused murders began last month, but is dragging on. Now, Turkish media outlets are reporting on a chilling possible connection between the defendants and the police:
Turkey has launched an investigation into alleged collusion between police officers and at least one of the suspects charged with killing three Christians earlier this year at a publishing house that produces Bibles, an official said Saturday.
Two senior police inspectors will be assigned to investigate whether any officers provided assistance to the suspects, an Interior Ministry official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media. He did not provide further details.
The three Christians - a German and two Turks - were killed in the southern city of Malatya on April 18. The killings - in which the victims were tied up and had their throats slit - drew international condemnation and added to Western concerns about whether Turkey can protect its religious minorities.
Five people were arrested and charged with murder. The trial opened last month, but was quickly adjourned until Jan. 14 because defence lawyers requested more time to prepare their arguments.
The Interior Ministry decided to open an investigation after several newspapers published stories Saturday alleging co-operation between police and at least one of the suspects.
Radikal newspaper quoted two of the suspects, Abuzer Yildirim and Salih Guler, as saying in their testimonies that a third suspect Emre Gunaydin told them that he had met with police officials and learned about the locations of Christian churches in the city.
“I asked him who are the police chiefs that you are speaking to, he said: ‘Don’t ask, take it easy,”‘ Radikal quoted Yildirim as saying.
CBN aired a report on the murdered Christians–two Turkish converts who left Islam and one German national–over the summer. Watch and remember what true religious martyrs look like:
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It is stories like the above that makes me think we are just delaying the inevitable. This is a clash of cultures and the majority of Middle Eastern countries are devolving into or always have been Muslim/Sharia.
The next decade I believe will be defining in who is going to win this “culture” war. The only reason we lose is PC’ism. Europe of course is all ready falling.
These men are true martyrs. Though it pains me to think of how some will call them foolish for doing what they did in a Muslim country and not “respecting the culture” of that particular country.
Will be praying for their families.
That’s what happens when POLITICS and RELIGION are mixed. Thank the Gods our Founding Fathers had the foresight separating church and state! Aum.
Dandi, Jesus always told His followers that the world will hate them as they hated HIM, you are merely uttering prophesy. Christian persecution will increase and increase as these last days go on. Anyway Dandi what was the crime of these murdered guys? Had they flushed the koran in the toilet?
Martyrs indeed. And they wives forgave the murderers. The passage from Isaiah 61, 1-3 at the end was moving.
May God the Father Almighty rest their Souls and comfort their families.
#3
1. This is what happens when you mix religion and “government“… not politics. There is a big difference between politics and government. There is absolutely nothing wrong with mixing politics and religion. Both conservatives and liberals do it all the time.
Definitely the reason things are such a mess in the middle east is because most of the countries in that region do mix “government” with one of the craziest religions on the planet.
2. The “founding fathers” did NOT “separate” church and state. The “founding fathers” gave every citizen the right to practice whatever religion they want without having it dictated by the state. Again, a big difference!!!
The Supreme Court, came up with that catchy little “church and state” concept, which liberals love so much… Not the “founding fathers”.
Yes, we are fast heading to a one world religion and government as Revelation shows us. The fact that islam is so hateful it is easy to see how hundreds of thousands of Christians will be beheaded in the last days. There are scary times ahead, but it is comforting to know that satan and his cohorts lose in the end.
Actually, there is no such thing as separation of church and state in our Constitution. It merely prevents Congress from naming a national church, or writing laws preventing the free exercise of religion.
Read almost anything from that time period. The Bible is the most quoted reference in documents and speeches of that time period. There is no restriction of the influence religion can have on government.
Just an FYI… while Constitution prevents Congress from naming a national church, states are not under any such restrictions. In fact, many states at that time did have a state-sponsored denomination of Christianity.
It is a mistake to believe politics and government are two different things. And I do think I touched a few hot buttons. Peace. Shanti.
Dandi, you will have a hot button on you if you keep your attitude. Believe me Jesus is giving you every chance to repent and you will be hoping for a “button” to escape His judgement once judgement has been uttered by Him, that is if your rejection of Him is permanent. Sorry I have to go and won’t be here till tomorrow to answer further questions.
Ok, lets see… Dandapani, says it’s so, therefore it is… The facts be damned!
You liberals crack me up!
If the facts don’t fit the preconceived desire, then just “say” it isn’t so, and throw in a little “pax vobiscum” at the end to show you’re morally superior.. Cute trick, but it doesn’t hold a drop of water in the “real world”.
That I believe sums up the situation with so-called “liberals”. Soon, I’m sure they will try to get the US Constitution changed and all references to God or the Bible in early documents will be purged.
How truly “liberating” it is to white wash history to suit ones needs.
Remember what John Adams said Dandi: this Republic would not survive without the Judeo-Christian principles upon which it was founded. Growup and stop reading the Charlotte Observer/NYT or watching CNN. Read the history of this country that was bought with much blood of people obviously more informed and braver than you!
When you find someone who disagrees with you about religion, you cut his throat and say God made me do it. Can it be that this isn’t behavior a sane person would do even if his religion encouraged it? I’m convinced most Muslims are so filled with hatred they’re just looking for an excuse to kill someone, anyone to satisfy their psychopathology.
Danda, in case you weren’t aware, Turkey is considered a secular nation, even though the majority there practice the Muslim religion.
There will always be a fringe group of individuals both outside and inside the government who would like to see Turkey become an Islamic nation, and have no tolerance for any other religion.
The founding fathers gave us that freedom to practice any religion here. I believe you need to re-read the constitution and try to understand it instead of preaching the ACLU’s version of their misunderstood opinions.
Turkey has always been an iffy proposition at best, with a history of remarkable ugliness even by the standards of the Middle East. It is true that there is a pro-west, secular component to it’s population, but it’s weakening fast. There is a larger and much faster growing group (source: Mark Steyn) that is more traditionalist, shall we say, and that is where the future lies.
In short, Turkey will fall to the Islamists in a generation at most. By that time Europe will have fallen as well, so I guess the two will finally join together.
Once again this type of story will never be seen in the MSM because it shines an ugly light on one of their protected groups. By surfing the web and reading the real stories presented by the alternative media do we see the real threat. Muslims have shown themselves throughout history to be anything, but tolerant to those they have conquered. They are insulted over nothing and their worship of this false god is actually a form of totalitarian government disguised as a religion.
As they have proven by their behavior in Western Democracies their constant complaining, whining, seething, protesting, law suits, and rioting are all designed as part of their plan to first infiltrate our society and when strong enough to rise up and destroy every principle we hold dear. Dark days are truly ahead if we as a nation choose poorly during the next election cycle.
It is a mistake to believe politics and government are two different things.
BWHAHAHAHAHAH!
What has been one of the most common criticisms of the Bush Administration?
THAT THEY HAVE SHAMELESSLY POLITICIZED THE GOVERNMENT!
Evidently ole’ Dan didn’t get the note on that talking point.
Separation of church and state is a Christian principle. The separation of mosque and state is not an Islamic principle.
Jesus clearly intended church-state separation for his followers. He was asked what religious people owed Caesar, and he answered them by using a coin—the object used when paying taxes (Mark12:13-17, Matthew 22:15-22, Luke 20:19-26). Jesus’ death occurred with a violation of separation of church and state, as his opponents got politicians and religious leaders to join together to have him killed (Luke 23: 2).
In 1817 James Madison wrote the following to three states that had not removed constitutional clauses or statutes establishing Christianity as the state religion:
“Ye States of America, which retain in your Constitutions or Codes, any aberration from the sacred principle of religious liberty, by giving to Caesar what belongs to God, or joining together what God has put asunder, hasten to revise & purify your systems, and make the example of your Country as pure & compleat, in what relates to the freedom of the mind and its allegiance to its maker, as in what belongs to the legitimate objects of political & civil institutions.”
If ever that was a retrograde religion bent on extinguishing everything, including itself, it’s radical Islam.
Well, it did not take long for a troll to start a Church/State debate.
Troll espousing how “they deserved it”, “what were they thinking” in 5…4…
This is a clash, all right. Not of civilizations but of civilization. The civilized world versus barbarians stuck in a tribal mindset mired in the Middle Ages.
As politically incorrect as it sounds, the problem is Islam itself. Islam cannot police its own ranks to excommunicate its members because each Imam is a prelate unto himself. And this decentralized authority makes any action one supported by Allah so long as the local Imam is on board. Abd literal interpretations of the Koran provide more than ample support for virtually any barbaric and henious act against infidels or apostates. Add to this mess the level of illiteracy in the Muslim world (over 80% in some areas), and you have a recipe for for absolute control. And absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Under our collective understanding of what a religion is in the US, this is not a religion. It is a design for a religious government, not a government of the people, with its own set of religious laws and religious courts. In short, the Koran, if literally interpreted, is not compatible with the Constitution. Those that follow Islam are free; those that do not have no rights and must pay tribute to Islam for the priviledge being allowed to exist.
I believe I am over my non-PC quota for the day, so I’ll end there.
What is so terribly frightening about this religion is that the very countries that are
now so backward were once at the forefront in the sciences, mathematics and in
sophistication in this world. When Islam became more than a religion and began
controlling everything in the lives of the people in these countries, they started
their long, uncontrolled slide into what they are at this time. This could very well
become our future if the left has it’s way on trying to appease these creatures.
My history of fraustration with the Christian leadership of this country is only compounded by the account of the murder of the three brave men. The Christian church here in the U.S. has long known of the persecution in the mid-east. When asked “what are we going to do about it” the answer is “Oh, there will always be a remnant-we can’t interfer with God’s plan.”
Thank God,the 55 founders of this great Republic (some of them pastors - called the black regiment) sent the king of England a Declaration with an side statement-We Will Have No King But King Jesus.
Holger Dankse-Vagner!!!
“Anarchist to the Left of me…
Nazis to the Right
Captain America!!!
the Caliphate is progged to take over!”
“We Will Have No King But King Jesus”
…answered the Good Captain,
“& WE WILL NOT! SUBMIT.”
A very good book is God’s Smuggler that tells of Brother Andrew and his smuggling Bibles into communist countries in the 1960’s and beyond. It gives a nice glimpse into the suppression of Christianity in communist countries during that time.
Their organization Open Doors recently had someone killed in Gaza. I’ve never been religious, but I’m getting ready to really read the Bible for the first time. The desire of the people for the Bible of those in the communist countries during that time was even more moving than the story of those doing the smuggling.
This portrayal is rather antiseptic. The men were tortured for 2 hours. After being tied up naked, their penises and testicles were cut off, each in front of the other. Then those parts were chopped up. Then the men had their rectums split open. Before death they were disemboweled by a holes cut in their torso and the intestines slowly removed and chopped into pieces. Their throats were cut only when authorities arrived.
What kind of sick jerk would do something like this in the name of religion?
The one’s that defend them or dont Denounce them are no better. just a small group my eye.
Yes puhiawa, we knew that!
Or, if it wasn’t known exactly in that detail, we suspected it.
Trust me, I’ve lived in the islamic part of the world, and seen it with mine own eyes!! The “religion of peace” is, in reality, the creation of evil. Worse than any vile abomination conceived by hollyweird.
I only hope that the leftwing apologists for the “religion of pieces” someday get to experience the “love” first hand.
This really upsets me. I think we have cause to announce a new sub-species.
“This portrayal is rather antiseptic. The men were tortured for 2 hours. After being tied up naked, their penises and testicles were cut off, each in front of the other. Then those parts were chopped up. Then the men had their rectums split open. Before death they were disemboweled by a holes cut in their torso and the intestines slowly removed and chopped into pieces. Their throats were cut only when authorities arrived.”
GOD ALMIGHTY…..but you can’t put up a Christmas Tree in the local P.O.
” He died to ransom us from the grips of Death & Sin & Evil.”
מרנא תא; maranâ’ thâ’ or מרן אתא; maran ‘athâ’
Michi #7, the first rule of any life or death confrontation is don’t take a knife to a gun fight. A 50 caliber machine gun mounted on the back of a Toyota pick up truck will bring law and order to any rampaging mob, even Muslims.
These assassins once again prove Muslims owe their allegiance to the Nation of Islam, are governed by Sharia, and are the enemies of democracy. These assassins are not the exception to the rule. They are the rule. The moderate Muslims are the rank and file to these forward jihadists.
My toilet bowl is still painted with a picture of Mohammad and it works great. you should see his open mouth.
May God bless the families of the murdered. May God bring justice to the scum Monkey pigs that carried it out.
When there are no boundaries we see atrocities such as this and the holocaust just
to name a few. When this is encouraged, then people who, in any civilized society
would be known as monsters, are free to practice whatever their evilly warped
brains can dream up. The real criminals are the imams that teach, preach and even
applaud this actions in the name of Allah. I also believe but know that it will never
happen, that the punishment should truly fit the crime.
If only enough people will learn the right lesson from this, instead of the usual lessons the appeasers and apologists take. Maybe Western civilization would stand a chance if we accepted reality and began actively resisting these bullies.
What is wrong with us that we allow monsters to torture and kill our fellow man like this? Who is really to blame? The coward/cockroaches that killed these men or the politically correct fools that we have become?
We had best get our heads out of the sand and do something about this. Islam is the religion of the devil and we had better start behaving accordingly or our culture and life as we know it will be gone. This is a battle of survival people and it will be survival of the fittest.
cold front #25 - thank you for making my day (-: Holger Danske-Vagner…and #32-You are the first to answer my suspicions that, when these animals torture, it is more than water-boarding.
Radicule Islam is a death cult not a religion.
So why aren’t the Christians taking to the streets, screaming about how their religion has been insulted and harmed by the actions of these Muslims? Where are the protests and signs calling for the deaths of those who insult Christianity? Where are the mass protests and riots, burning of cars and shops and such in cities all over the world for this insult to the Christian Holy Book by these Islamic Infidels who dared to touch it with their bare hands and destroy it,treating it and the men who were printing it with such disrespect that they even killed these men in cold blood, making them martyrs…not ti send them to have an eternity of perverted sexual bliss with natures most hideous beasts found only at a “Breasts Not Bombs” protests looking like the bearded woman at a Freak Show at the circus, but instead to see Christ and God and the other Martyrs in Heaven and to be welcomed into Their arms with warmth and glory.
C’mon folks, fair is fair…let’s get with the program. After all, we would only be showing people that you must show respect for our religion. Maybe that way, these Liberals would stop taking it so lightlu and stop with the jokes and such. Look at how Islam is now treated? Flushing a koran is seen as a hate crime while putting a Crucifix in piss and covering the Virgin Mary in feces is art. Making fun of the Catholic Church has become a regular weekly thing on television, as has anything having to do with Christianity, and don’t even try to bring up Jesus i a conversation…but just mention Islam and watch the Pity Party start. Want to save Christmas and Easter?
Learn from the enemy, do what they do… let’s start being whiney little cry babies too. Make the Islamic cry babies respect our religion too. Leys take to the streets every time they kill, kidnap, burn, rape, plunder, pillage or threaten a Christian in this world. Let’s show Islam that two can play the whiney b***h game. It isn’t just for them you know.
This hatred is OPENLY preached in almost every Mosque and Muslim youth organization in America.
“sigh”
Ohio boats…
#40 RetFireman
I have a better plan…although it’s a bit radical…actually i usually am dismissed in a most unkind fashion when suggesting it.
Both Our Saviour & His Blessed Mother are regulars at the cafe islam.
Mary is venerated w/ great warmth by many Muslims(….hence, some suspect, why She appeared at ‘Fatima’).
I pray for the immediate & miraculous conversion of Islam through Mary to Jesus. *(eyes begin rolling)*
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T8gPDKqXg0E&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8tQVeb2ROEg&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pmJ0Lfl5zUE&feature=related
Bless you coldfront for taking the high road.
Ultimately a power higher than us will settle this.
In the meantime OHIO BOATS.
You are (as you know) absolutely RIGHT on all counts.”Congress shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
The phrase “separation of church and state” was lifted from a letter written by Jefferson (to his pastor?). Neither that letter nor its content ever became part of the founding documents.
What is shocking to me is how many MILLIONS of U.S. citizens (voters!) are completely oblivious to this!
I’ve had it happen….a liberal that I know tried to shout me down when I stated that
nowhere in the constitution does the phrase separation of church and state appear.
He screamed that he knew it was in there but couldn’t find it to prove what he was
saying. Ever after he has given me this cross eyed look when we are in the same room
and my husband swears the guy thinks I somehow made it disappear when he was
looking for it.
He’s probably one of those who thinks Joan of Arc was Mrs. Noah.
Gee, this sounds like something I read once… can’t quite put my finger on it… it was about like being persecuted for believing, you know…
Like, they hated me before they hated you something like that…
Anyway, these sound like bad people, & we should not let bad people into our country
even if they are survivors of an alpha strike.
jus sayin
TXRose #46 - you are so correct-the words Separation of Church and State are not in the U.S. Constitution.
The Jefferson letter containing that phrase was written to the Danbury Baptists to assure them that government monies (taxpayer dollars-yours and mine)would not be used to support any denomination.
It looks like you do have Danish in your heritage.
Vagner
Thanx. I do know the Celts and Danes both got around and they are now thinking that
some of the American Indians came from a defunct Celtic Branch that lived at one time
in what is now France. Course there’s also the Polynesian connection that is now being
explored. Seems not all American Indians came from Siberia or Mongolia.
What I love is that the Bill of Rights has it’s roots in the Iroquois Confederacy.
You are going to have to enlighten me as to the Iroquois Confederacy.
I have just recently begun studying my Danish roots. I knew that my heritage was 1/2 Dane-now I found that the Irish 1/4 and the Dutch 1/4 could be predominately Danish too. It seems that York (shire) Eng. has a heavy Danish heritage - Dutch grandmother’s mother was a Yorke.
The five civilized tribes were under the umbrella of the Iroquois Confederacy and
a list of rights that each and every person in the confederacy enjoyed were what
was to later become the basis for our Bill of Rights. In other words, them savages
wrote the prototype of one of the most civilized pieces of paper in history.
We’ve gone back to 1199 on one side of our family. One of our ancestors went to
the Crusade with Geoffrey. He came home, G the Knight did not.
Oops. Was being facetious when I said “them savages”,
did not mean to sound dumb.
Did you know facetious is the only word in the English
language to contain every vowel and in the correct
order?
Except “y”
Unless it is facetiously I suppose…and then you only use it sometimes. tee hee.
Y isn’t always considered a vowel.
The story of two religions: One where men are ready to die for their beliefs. Another, where men are ready to kill for their beliefs.
What sane person would choose the latter and say it is truly of God?
These martrys cause me to take time to search my own life and ask if I could do the same.
Thanks Michelle for telling us of these men.
Had Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins written their “Left Behind” series now rather than in 1995 they wouldn’t have made the “beast” some guy from the UN. The entire series would have been about Islam and it’s domination, evil and subjugation. It’s getting pretty easy to see Islam in the books of Daniel, Matthew and Revelation now.
No, it would still be some guy at the UN.
Key words: CAN PROTECT. WILL they? heck no!
Turkish Prime Minister: “Have more babies. It is Allah’s will.”
It is all part of their plan to turn the EU into next Islamic State.
Is it any wonder the rank and file EU “citizens” (can you be a citizen of a non-country?) are none too eager to see Turkey admitted fully to the EU? A friend in the foreign service who lives in the area once referred to Turkey as “Islam-lite”. Riiight. A fair description of London, maybe, but not of any fully Muslim country like Iran, Syria, Turkey, or France.