Housing sob story of the day: Unemployed, $600,000 in debt, and looking for sympathy…or a handout
Where will it stop? As I noted on Fox Business Network last week during a segment on the Hillary/Bush housing bailout, the interest-rate freeze was the camel’s nose under the tent. Not content to publish sob stories of short-sighted homeowners who overextended themselves with subprime mortgages, newspapers are now crusading on behalf of other homeowners under water who admit it’s because they just made “bad decisions.”
If this Orange County Register story doesn’t send your blood pressure through the roof and have you shouting “Boo Freaking Hoo!” at the top of your lungs, I don’t know what will. It’s titled “Tapped-out family’s home is at risk: Fullerton grandparents struggle with their home loan’s rising payments.” It begins:
John and Grayce Coffman could lose the Fullerton home they bought in 1977 because they can’t keep up with their mortgage’s rising costs.
The Coffmans, who are unemployed and in their 60s, borrowed $552,300 from Countrywide Financial, the largest U.S. home lender, in the summer of 2005. Despite making about $50,000 in payments since then, they now owe more than $590,000 to Countrywide.They, like many other consumers during the go-go days of the housing boom, tapped the rising equity in their home. They took out a loan that allowed them to make a low monthly payment, but tacked the unpaid interest onto the loan balance.
Now the Coffmans say they can’t afford the minimum payment of more than $2,000 a month, which has gone up from $1,776 when they first got the loan.
And they certainly can’t make the fully amortized payment of more than $4,500, which would be roughly 80 percent of their income. The Coffmans earn about $5,400 a month from Social Security and government assistance for five of their six adopted grandchildren, according to the Coffmans and their recent bank statements. (One grandchild is now an adult.)Big lenders like Countrywide have programs to help certain homeowners in distress, and President Bush last week announced a plan to keep some subprime borrowers in their homes. But neither of these plans will help the Coffmans, who don’t have any subprime loans.
Why should other taxpayers be forced to Do Something for this family that admits culpability for their unwise financial choices?
They bought their two-story home for $97,000 in 1977 and have since extracted all the equity gain in it. They’ve cashed out $600,000 in home equity with the help of several lenders, including Countrywide, Washington Mutual, Wells Fargo, and Greenpoint Mortgage Funding.
They spent the money on household bills, an expansion and remodel of their home to make room for the children, and to shore up John Coffman’s struggling radiator repair shop, which was sold in 2005, they said.
After taking out a second mortgage in February from Wells Fargo for $114,855, they now owe about $700,000 on their home, which is worth about the same, according to Zillow.com, a Web site that evaluates a home’s market worth.
There is no equity left to pay for a refinance, and they couldn’t afford payments on any other loan even if they could, the Coffmans say.“How did it happen? I can’t tell you,” Grayce “Penelope” Coffman, 64, said. “We just made some really bad decisions.”
The newspaper went so far as to contact Countrywide on the family’s behalf to plead for leniency. The article then tries to make the case that the homeowners were duped because loans are “complicated:”
Coffman says she doesn’t remember what Linda Wilson, the loan officer at Countrywide who got them into the loan, said about the loan’s risks when they first got it.
Wilson, however, said she explained everything about how the loan behaves and how payments can change over time.
“They totally understood the loan,” said Wilson, who works in Riverside.
The Coffmans signed a deed of trust that outlined how the interest rate could change over time.But mortgage broker Altman said borrowers rarely read the fine print, and brokers or loan officers at banks should explain in detail how any loan will behave. He generally only suggests option ARMs to sophisticated borrowers, such as investors in several properties.
“You are talking about a very complicated loan,” Altman said.
Personal responsibility? What’s that?
The Coffmans have about $1,400 in their joint checking and savings accounts, according to their November statements. Grayce Coffman said they have no other savings.
They do have one prospect for future income. Coffman and her brother inherited a property in Palm Springs from an aunt who passed away. They are selling it and will split the profits.
Coffman said she might use the money to pay off the second mortgage from Wells.
“I just don’t know,” she said.
Just a matter of time before Hillary Clinton or John Edwards–or someone in the Bush administration–makes the Coffmans the next poster family for Doing Something about the housing crisis that these people brought on themselves.
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Wow, didn’t read the fine print. Well, well, well, cry me a river.
Those are two words that have been eviscerated from the Pink Liberal Bible.
Devil’s Advocate:
When they, or others, join the homeless population, then what?
a loan that allowed them to make a low monthly payment, but tacked the unpaid interest onto the loan balance.
Such “loans” should be banned. This is the outcome. It’s a bargain between to fools, and society ends up bearing the cost of allowing it.
“between two fools” to fix last
Be careful not to report on this story and these people any further, lest you be accused of “stalking” them.
What the hell were they thinking of?
Holy crap. They took out a loan for over half a million dollars on their home equity.
I wish I could do that.
These people bought a house that skyrocketed in value and now they’re going to lose it because they were hopelessly stupid. Hey, you guys were smart enough to pay off the first mortgage. What happened? And just how much did he sell his radiator shop for?
If I go to Vegas and blow all my money on a high risk gamble, will the Government bail me out or help Vinny waive the money owed? Buck Up
#3 duh, maybe they could downsize? They’re already getting welfare payments for kids. American “poor” seem to be obese and have plenty of toys compared to someone living on the streets of Calcutta.
Or perhaps the family could move en masse to the Gaza strip, say they have converted to Islam and then collect the big $$ welfare from US and Euro taxpayers? Or ask John Edwards for some space on his massive estate?
They won’t be homeless. They can move into an apartment, and get jobs like the rest of us.
Time to sell the house and liquidate the debts folks!
Have they thought about getting jobs? They made the bad financial decisions, they blew through $523,000, why now should taxpayers pick up any part of their debt?
Just wanted to thank these idiots.
Your greed and inability to live within your means has locked both myself and my wife out of the market. Houses now cost 3-5 times what they should. Especially here in the DC area. It’s not that we couldn’t put ourselves in the poor house like you all did, it’s just that we were dumb enough to believe that you all would fall on your asses trying to have a Caviar home on a soda cracker budget.
I hope the whole market collapses on your empty heads.
How the hell do you figure that you can buy a house with a $3000 monthly payment on $2000 net income? How can you afford to refinance for a loan payment of $4000 on a fixed income of $1500?
The sooner Darwin’s law starts kicking in, the better America will get
I seriously think public schools need to start teaching financial responsibility in grade school.
But then again.
Why aren’t one or both of these people working? They’re too broke to take early retirement. I just don’t understand how anyone can be so stupid as to sign a paper
without reading the fine print and if you don’t understand it, take it to an attorney or
an accountant. It wouldn’t cost that much to have it explained to you if you don’t trust the lender.
I cannot believe how people get themselves into these fixes and then expect to be
bailed out by the taxpayers. They are already living on our ticket with welfare payments.
We got into a bit of a fix when we were first married because we were trying to help
the parents. We scrimped and worked extra jobs to get everything paid off. Never
once would it have occurred to us to as anyone for help. That goes double for
thinking taxpayers should bail us out. We felt that since we miscalculated, it was
our place to straighten out the mess.
I have a simple philosophy – no one has the right to stick their hands in my pockets to solve their personal problems.
The “I’m 64 Get Out of Debt Plan”:
Step 1: File for Bankruptcy
Step 2: Rent an cheap home with Section 8 assistance
Step 3: Never again own anything
Step 4: The End
Oh yeah, and thanks for making the market so overpriced…I’d love to buy a home but I can’t even afford 750 square feet.
Fixed rate for a set period, typically 3 to 5 years. After that the rate floats, which almost always means it goes up. At the same time your loan balance increases due to negative equity. So what is so complicated about that? This is not rocket science, or even calculus, just basic sixth gade math. Are these the same people that can’t figure out how to read a ballot?
student of Dave Ramsey..
get a job, go to work, bring home money..
somebody has a pizza place that needs a delivery driver..
aHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Freakin’ baby-boomers…
with a 30 year loan, in 1977, should have been pretty much paid off..
why would they need to borrow half a mill on their house?
okay.. read the rest of the artical.. paid off part of his failed business. but it looks like they are unemployed right now..
either get a job or adopt more grandkids for government assistance to make up your forbearance..
Not that I am some great financial wizard.. but be smart with your investments.. there will always be someone ready to help take it off of your hands if you are not careful..
Sitting at home on their butts whining about being broke. Gotta be Democrats.
I understand everyones take on this, I really do. But my goodness, they are in their 60’s. You realize that could be your parents someday. We all make mistakes … I am very responsible for mine. And I try to help out those that are not as fortunate as myself as much as I can. Sometimes it’s not about the left or the right or the tax and the spend. Sometimes it’s about compassion.
What I don’t get is how they figure they can’t afford to repay the loans in the first place. If they pay the “over 2000″ that still leaves at least 3k/month, or about 700/week to support two adults and five children, and that’s not counting the adult grandchild who should be chipping in.
If they pay the 4500, that’s different. But still, you’re starting with 900. Add in just about any kind of job, and you make that number 2000. Tough sledding for 7 people? Yes. Impossible, no. Especially if you use the inherited cash to pay down one of the loans.
Honestly, after hearing people hawk these loans day in day out for years, I do believe they were duped. I also believe they were incredibly foolish and shortsighted. What I don’t believe is that they need any more relief than to simply (to coin a phrase) Suck It Up.
But don’t force others (taxpayers) to pay for that compassion.
Give me $100.
I deserve it. I made mistakes. Your compassion = money to me.
This is whats going on here. Unless these people were robed of their life savings by a con artist, preying on the gullible … these people, who should have known better, stand to have their mistake corrected out of the pockets of others. IF you want to donate $100 to their bail out fund, then God bless you. If I learn that they were preyed on by a charlatan who lied to them, I might even feel compelled to send them a check.
If ‘you’ (anyone) suggests that I pay for it, then we have a problem.
^^^ Is absolutely right.
And it’s distressing when people make mistakes with their money. Time to do what everyone has to do when faced with a screwup:
Rev, I don’t disagree. But compassion in a case like this is helping him find a job he can do. Depending on the real specifics, maybe it’s filling their pantry. But there’s a line between helping and enabling.
Frankly, if they were my parents, or my children, or brother, etc, I’d be doing everything I could to help them, no matter whom I thought was to blame. But I wouldn’t be holding them out as a sob story in hopes the government would help.
I’d be curious to see just how far in the hole his business was. Seems pretty obvious to me he sucked all the money out of his house to support his business. His blatant lack of basic math skills is, sadly, not my freakin’ problem.
This is all a result of abolishing debtors’ prison and coddling those of low character.
Im sobbing for the 5 chillllldren
It’s a tragedy that the price they could pay for their bad decisions is so high. But to have the government bail them out is absolutely ridiculous. Plenty of other folks have bad decisions cascade on them and end up in bankruptcy, losing their homes, etc. Everyone has a sob story. Pick any one of ‘em and put ‘em on the front page to advocate for yet another government intervention. Welcome to the slippery slope to socialism. MM – as usual, you’re right on in your analysis.
In less than three years, they’re broke. They went through half a mil in thirty months…
Hope they had fun.
Hope they have kids with a spare room to share.
the paper said they were on social security.. they need to get a job..
SUCK. IT. UP.
time to grow up and act like an adult with responsibilities..
stories like this grinds my gears …
The guy had a dream, his radiator repair shop.. fine, that’s great.. it went under and he did a lousy re-fi to pay off any debts he had. Did he throw a vacation in there too? Only the Coffman’s know.
His dream, the repair shop, went out of business. It’s sad but it happens in a free market. He took a big risk and it failed.
He needs to get back up and make some money.
but there should be no freaking way that the taxpayers should come in and bail out his bad money decisions ..
I’m no economist, but doesn’t a bailout just help to keep housing prices unnaturally high? That may seem great to people who own homes now, but what about young people like me who are waiting to purchase a home because property values are too high where they live? Doesn’t a bailout indirectly punish people who play by the rules and make responsible financial decisions?
It seems to me that it is reasonable to assume that both the lender and the borrower knew (or SHOULD have known) that they were entering into a risky agreement.
Compassion is the job of the Church and the family. Not the government.
Alphonse,
Your comment made me smile. That is all.
How do some people get to be the age they get to be? I swear. So, they did not understand that their mortgage payments would go up when interest rates went up? Did they not understand that the more they borrowed, the more they would owe? What about the banks? Isn’t there something about a “Debt to income” ratio they are supposed to use that should have cut these people off at some point from their loan addiction?
No, I do not feel it is my fault or problem that they have to pay all this money back. Yes, I do feel very sorry for them, but as I cannot afford to purchas a home, and my wife and I make 6 figures a year here in California, I really do not have a hell of a lot of sympathy for people who got themselves into trouble by driving the housing prices up so damn high that hard working people like us with a family could no longer afford to buy a house of our own. Jealousy? maybe. Vindictive, possibly. Schaudenfeudenforoaueojfjlaj or whatever that word is? Most definately…but to put it bluntly these people were all adults who were ppurchasing a house, the biggest investment the vast majority of them would ever make, and if they were not mature enough to know what they were doing or getting into, then maybe this is what they deserve, and in the end, maybe the housing prices will return to a reasonable level to where hard working regular people like us can once again afford to buy a home for our families. AND not have to worry about the crap that is going on right now.
For 1 thing, it’s unconstitutional to bail out homeowners in “distress”. Remember that piece of paper that no-one pays any attention? We have the 10th amendment that offsets the “promote the general welfare” clause. That’s why they put the amendment in there, so government can’t use the clause to “do anything it likes”. James Madison and George Mason were big supporters of that. Now if people want to bail them out, pass an amendment. At least do it legally. We’ve turned this country into an entitlement, nanny state country, that will do nothing but reduce us down to another France and Britain. Hurricane Katrina showed how much we’ve ignored the law for votes and power. Like socialized medicine that’s coming, “I want to spend my money on the new electronics, not on my healthcare. Government should pay for it.” “Who cares about what made the country great. I want another car.” Liberals understand this, that’s why they want us dumb. It starts in the schools.
My guess is that the borrowed money is hidden away somewhere.
The article does not explain when Mr. and Mrs. Coffman starting cashing out the equity from their home, but that is what they did.
They bought the house in 1977. With a 30 year mortgage, the original mortgage would have been paid off in full in 2007.
What they have done is turned the $ 700,000 equity in the house into cash and spent that $ 700,000 equity on
and probably refinance fees, interest, and other mortgage fees.
They got all $ 700,000 equity out of the house.
The problem is that they cannot afford a $ 700,000 house on their current income.
It is time to increase their income and/or move to a house that they can afford.
It is simple household economics that, unfortunately, Mr. and Mrs. Coffman do not understand.
The owners buy the house in 1977 and then refinance in 2005 and now are going broke. If they didn’t get the 1/2 million dollar loan, their house would be paid off now (If they had a regular 30 year mortage). What about their children helping them out???
Nearly all are focused on the couple underwater in debt.
Remember there were TWO sides to this loan.
The side that is MORE LIKELY (by far) to put out the alms basket to the rest of us — and with the gun of the legislature to our heads while so “begging” is JUST as culpable in instant case, and then multiply that culpability by thousands and thousands of such idiotic deals they made as adults fully sane and edcuated that they now want rescue from.
Which is that side? The officers, managers, directors and stockholders of the “financial” outfits. They — along with the legislators and hangers-on they lobby with — are the big rot. The couple — they are idiots, financially speaking, but the bankers — they planned to come after US when their idiotic deals fell through.
They are vile. Rotten. Thieves who plan and carry out.
Such loans are like gambling “contracts” — they should be outlawed. And the present bunch of managers and bankers and directors who made them should be up on charges of conspiracy and racketeering.
If we were men, that is.
Okay, how do you adopt grandchildren? I mean, I know how to adopt a child (in the process of doing so right now, in fact), but people tell me grandchildren are so much more fun than children since you can spoil ‘em and send ‘em back. So how do you skip the raising-the-kid step and go straight to adopting a grandchild instead of a child? Or does the reporter mean they are raising their biological grandchildren because the parents (these folks’ kidlets) can’t/won’t take care of them? Six of them??? And they need government assistence to take care of them??? Okay, maybe the parents died and the grandparents stepped in, and the assistance is social security survivors benefits. But if that’s the case, the estate should also have some money in trust to take care of the kids — the assets of the dead parents, their life insurance, etc.
Something doesn’t pass the smell test here. It sure sounds like irresponsibility has been a hallmark of this family for a long time. If they are getting government assistence for raising their own grandchildren, then they’re already being bailed out by the taxpayers.
But the comment section at the end of the article is heartening. Check it out if you haven’t already.
This makes me want to rip my hair out. A few years ago my husband and I couldn’t afford our housing payments. We didn’t cry, whine, beg, etc. We sold the home we loved, took a few years to pay off debts, and are now trying to save money to someday buy our own home again. We are renting an old sort of run down house with a lower rent so we can save money and make things right again. It was our responsibility to do so. Now I know in the current market that houses are difficult to sell, especially when people want to get enough to pay off all they owe and have some left over. As difficult as it is to have to lose what you worked hard for, that is just the way life goes sometimes. Michelle’s dead on… suck it up. Do what you have to do to make things right again. It takes sacrifice and yeah it really hurts to have to do it. But it’s what’s right. Personal responsibility.
Thank you, American public school system. Thank you, teacher’s unions. Just giving “props” to the unsung heroes in this saga.
How ’bout me?
Back in ‘99, I bought an AR15 (pre-ban) that cost over $2,000. Now that the ban has been lifted, they’re going for around a grand.
My investment just tanked more than 50%. Can we get some help here?
Hey, what about me! I need some help with my credit cards. ? I make 25k a year, and have 50,000 in credit card debt. I was late a few months on one of the cards and now they are all charging me 24.9% interest.
I mean this is
( Sorry, Gotta go. The Circuit City truck just pulled up with my new 72″ Plasma T.V. and 20000 watt surround sound system. )
Not keen on this “suck it up” nonsense – but undoubtedly this couple were insane to take this massive loan out and the state/government shouldn’t have to dip into my/yours tax dollars to bail them out.
They remind me of the Frosts.
Not exactly the worst case scenario here. There are some people who have it worse off.
It’s great that they opened their home to foster children – They should be applauded for that. But it seems the money that they received monthly for those kids paid for other things.
They don’t exactly inspire confidence that they will prevent this from happening again. And happens if it does happen again?
And what happens if it does happen again.
That would be a neat trick, considering they no longer teach real math.
I’ve spent maybe a thousand bucks on lotto tickets over my lifetime. Where’s the government program to return the money from these admittedly bad decisions? Sure I made the decision to buy them but society is to blame.
Tantor,
Just say you are trying to pursue the American dream and they almost have to bail you out then. No American dream left behind.
If they get jobs, they get their “government assistance” taken away. They have more income not working.
Maybe your parents. My parents, thank God, are not idiots. They’re in a two-bedroom house (I sleep in the unfinished storage closet in the basement when all the kids-grandkids are there for holidays) that’s fully paid off, and zero interest in “extracting the equity” to finance frivolity or further investments. I’m sure they have long-term investments for retirement, but they didn’t bet the house on them.
I’m sorry–I had a fairly spartan childhood without the fripperies my peers because my folks priorities were securing the roof over our heads. I’m currently in a sh**ty apartment in a questionable neighborhood because I was going to save money for a house. Thanks to moron[s] like the Coffmans, I’m now going to need a 20% downpayment for a 30-year fixed loan, and on my one salary it’s going to take me another five years–about the time this ARM freeze thaws and we start the whole process over again–to get it.
Bailing out these morons with my tax dollars is just insult to injury.
And you want to bitch at ME about “compassion”??? My compassion is for people who deserve it, not for people who waltz through life expecting others to finance their remodeling projects while they sit at home complaining about being poor.
…..Bankers, Car Dealers and Lawyers con-artists and thieves all.
I worked for a major car dealer here in NJ and the general theme at the weekly sales meeting was, “say ANYTHING, even lie if you have to, to get the people on paper. We’ll deal with the problems later, if they read the fine print”.
Although bankers may be a little more sophisticated and better dressed, they are also thieves….. And don’t get me started on lawyers.
That being said, no government bailout. Sadly these people need to “feel the pain”.
“You can’t teach Stupid”
I’m with CJ #46 –
There’s no mention in this story about the ‘grandchildren’s’ parents – assumably they are this couples child / children.
I wonder about the history here – given the tendencies of the MSM.
If these are their biological grandchildren, then either:
A. Their parents died – in which case, it would seem that the reporter would make mention of that in the article in an effort to paint a more sympathetic picture.
B. Their parents are living – and for whatever reason, are unwilling or unable to care for the children. Certainly a point that would most likely not be published when reaching for sympathy.
Given the seriousness of their situation – the article is certainly lacking in background on how these two social security receiving / massively in-debt people acquired all these kids.
JohnnyNJ,
Agreed.
We bought our home here in NJ last year. It was a buyer’s market. We went with 100% financing. The bank tried their best to get us to take out a larger loan. We thought it over and didn’t go that route. We knew what we wanted to pay per month and didn’t want a high interest loan, interest only loan or subprime mortgage. We are better off for it.
Who doesn’t want the big house on the hill? Or the big house on the lake?
Your income, your house, your money to pay back, your responsibility.
No brainer. Yes use your own money to pay your own bills!!
If you have to, LIQUIDATE and try again.
.
No one bailed me out more than a decade ago, I liquidated down to about zero.
I didn’t aske for gvmt help.
Millions dont.
she doesn’t know if she is going to take the money from the sell of the inherited property to pay the mortgage of the house she is living in? wow, what does she plan to do with it?
this is just a case of people who live in the moment and do not want to suffer the consequences of their actions.
that and you can’t fix stupid…
I sure did. My wife and I qualified for 3 times what we borrowed in 2005. I switched mortgage banks because the people we were dealing with seemed disappointed that we refused to act like idiots. In any case, we didn’t get the 3 car garage that I wanted, or the gourmet kitchen that my wife wanted. 6 months ago my wifes income went down by 50%. Guess what? Not a problem for us, because we made responsible choices, and made sure we could afford our house payment even if things went wrong.
Now I feel like the moron of the century for not shooting the moon and then crying on the 6 o clock news! I could have been soaking in my indoor hot tub and pulling a beer out of my sub zero frig! Now the government is going to get into MY pocket to help out the idiots who are sitting in their hot tub, swimming in their pool, watching movies in their theater room, and sitting around with no job in a gated community? All I got to say to that is “screw you”.
In one respect I do feel a bit sorry for them because I know how hard it is for “older” people to find jobs. On the other hand, my husband was laid off several times, once for almost a year, & yet always managed to make house payments. Even though the company he has worked for for the past 10 years has no retirement plan, & he has had a small raise only twice in hose same 10 years, we have managed to build a future retirement home & it is totally debt free! We drive two cheap cars, have no big screen TV’s, take few vacations, we live frugally. So it can be done.
Now the paper has banned comment. This from the paper:
Yeah, “Tolerate broad thinking“, except thinking that promotes fiscal responsibility. For that you have to get your own space on a blog.
What would Ron White say about this?
I’d like to know more about the children, and why they aren’t helping. Are they too young to work? If they are old enough to work, why aren’t they helping out financially? One of the children is now an adult – why isn’t he/she helping out? After all, this couple was kind enough to take these children in and put their life on hold to raise children that didn’t belong to them. Seems paying some of their bills would be the least these children could do.
Some people would say that children shouldn’t have to spend “their” money on house payments and bills, that they need to spend it on whatever it is that makes them happy. Well, where I come from, loyalty to the family comes above my happiness. Everyone helps out, like it or not, whether that’s mowing the grass, pulling weeds, painting the house, feeding the cows, or getting a job to help out with bills. If my parents were in dire straits today, you better believe I’d be helping them out.
That said, I agree with the other commenters who say these people need to sell the house, sell a car, and get jobs.
Personal responsibility. Own it.
I agree CRY ME A RIVER
#64, I hear ya.
How in the heck did they go through half a million dollars in 30 months? And why would anyone loan someone money with no means of supportable income?
hhhhmmmmm….
Since I am an honorably discharged vet with a 50% disability rating do I get to have my house paid for?
Just want to know….
GSP
Amazing.
When rates are high, you get a viable rate loan (because where else will it go but down). When they are low, you get a fixed rate, because they can pretty much can only go up.
Why is this difficult for people?
To paraphrase the old headline.
Mortgage rates rise …. greedy idiots hardest hit.
They took $552,300 from Country Wide and $114,855 from Wells Fargo ($666,800 total) because they “needed” it?
It sounds to me like their problems started long before these banks were involved.
This reporter is hiding something.
Okaaaayy , now, deep breaths and take a seat, some of you…
Some of the comments sound like liberals talking about gun control. They do not like guns, do not understand guns, and have no interest in using a gun themselves — thus all guns should be banned. (Well, I happen to be both well-armed and proficient, so keep your grubby mitts off of me and mine…)
Look, this type of loan is no different than than a high powered gun, a fast car, or a really big chainsaw — it is just a tool. Maybe not a tool for everyday use, and maybe not a tool for the untrained and/or naive — but still just a tool. As a tool, it has it’s place and can be useful, if the user is knowledgeable and competent. If a user is a moron and hurts themself by misusing a product, well, boo-hoo. If I drive too fast in my Porsche and wrap it around a tree, or cut my hand off with the chainsaw, that is my problem.
Now, that being my problem, I do not look for a handout from the government. But at the same time, if I am an educated and responsible user of a product that may be dangerous to untrained morons, do not limit my access to that product just because some other moron is not trained or educated. That is not what we do in a free and open capitalist society.
Don’t blame the gun; blame the criminal. Don’t blame the loan — blame the moron homeowner.
Hey, Watcherdownsouth, that ain’t a solid analogy. In this case — the bad loans, we have the sellers of the product ALREADY subsidized by government, unlike the gun manufacturers. How are they subsidized? They borrow money from the Fed at cheaper rates than we do, many of the products they sell are only marketable and/or profitable at the rates they get because the government insures them.
Such loans — mortgages and student loans especially, but even credit card (revolving debt) — are so entangled with government sponsorship and special protections — such as in the new bankruptcy laws — that it is hard to say that they are not “grants of government favor”.
Guns, as you and I both know, enjoy NO such protections, or sponsorships.
For example with a gun industry manufacturer who fails to deliver an order of guns or bullets, the buyer who prepaid is OUT OF LUCK. Not so someone placing their money in a bank whoring out bad loans like a crack whore. Uhn-unh.
Those depositors enjoy a Federal promise that all their funds will be made whole, no matter how much the crack ho’s of bank officials are wastrels.
No regular private-sector manufacturing industry official could ever get away with such bad practises, or parallel bad practices.
These people should be homeless fools living under a bridge. They borrowed $700,000! They’re idiots!
People who buy homes they can’t afford, who run up debt with no thought, who live in zones that regularly have fires, hurricanes, or earthquakes, who by choice do foolish and reckless things, get no sympathy from me. Do what you will, fine, but as my third grade teacher said ‘paddle your own canoe.’ Don’t burden your neighbors to bail you out.