Abu Zubaydah’s Come to Allah moment
Don’t miss the WaPo’s interview with John Kiriakou, an ex-CIA agent who helped interrogate al Qaeda biggie Abu Zubaydah and described the religious effect of waterboarding on the jihadist. Reader Steve G. calls it Zubaydah’s “Come To Allah Moment:”
In an interview, Kiriakou said he did not witness Abu Zubaida’s waterboarding but was part of the interrogation team that questioned him in a hospital in Pakistan for weeks after his capture in that country in the spring of 2002.
He described Abu Zubaida as ideologically zealous, defiant and uncooperative — until the day in mid-summer when his captors strapped him to a board, wrapped his nose and mouth in cellophane and forced water into his throat in a technique that simulates drowning.
The waterboarding lasted about 35 seconds before Abu Zubaida broke down, according to Kiriakou, who said he was given a detailed description of the incident by fellow team members. The next day, Abu Zubaida told his captors he would tell them whatever they wanted, Kiriakou said.
“He said that Allah had come to him in his cell and told him to cooperate, because it would make things easier for his brothers,” Kiriakou said.
Ed Morrissey boils down the choice Congress faces–a choice that moonbats in fantasy land pretend doesn’t exist:
Bottom line: if we outlaw the procedure, it should not be with the understanding that someone can order its use and that Congress will forgive it later, depending on the circumstances. If those who propose that as a solution believe that certain circumstances warrant its use, then they should write laws that allow it — and keep men like Kiriakou from having to determine whether to follow what amounts to an illegal order. If this Congress outlaws waterboarding, they will have the responsibility for the potential intel loss that it creates, and the damage that loss eventually does.
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Categories: Torture
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But…I…thought…intensive…interrogation…was…never…effective…
These methods seemed OK when the Dems had the White House.
How the hell is waterboarding/simulated drowning considered intensive? This
is intensive.
waterboarding is not torture in my mind. i figure bamboo shoots up the finger nails, chopping off of hands or fingers and burning skin is torture.
simulation of drowning techiniques like these are not torture. cause obviously, just talking to this guy was not getting results. when he was psychologically induced he began to respond. loud music, sleep depravation and severe temperatures are not torture; and these methods should be used.
he gave up in less than one minute, sounds pretty effective if you ask me.
If this Congress outlaws waterboarding, they will have the responsibility for the potential intel loss that it creates, and the damage that loss (OF INNOCENT LIFE) eventually does.
.
I really can’t understand why anyone would NOT allow waterboarding in cases like these.
We could never stoop to the level of terrorists and that comparison is quite insulting actually.
This abu-whats-his-name is a smart azz. Come to think of it, so are the dhimminacrats who want to reverse themselves on interrogation techniques.
Here’s Kiriakou’s Clintonesque opinion on whether waterbording is torture:
The highlighted (mine) text pretty much says it all.
I say we waterboard Fatty Kennedy, Grim Reaper Reid, Bloviating Biden, Kookoo Kucinich and Baghdad Jim McDermott…just for fun.
Now folks, I’m not intending to troll and I’m pro water boarding and using other methods to get information. Having said that, if the White House destroyed the tapes to protect the i.d’s of the CIA agents, what’s this Kiriakou doing giving interviews?
I never considered scaring someone for less than 1 min. to be torture. These are people who would cut the heads off any of us, given the opportunity. I think we can use something more than bad language.
Meatpieandtatters #8, Let’s not forget Murtha.
35 seconds? what about all the time I’ve had to listen to Hillary,Pelosi and Reid now thats tortoure…..
That was handy.
If Ken Starr had been able to use waterboarding, his investigation would have wrapped up in a month and cost about $50,000.
On second thought, could Hillary be waterboarded? Everyone knows that witches float.
Oooohhhh. So the lefties are right. Waterboarding doesn’t work. It was the merciful Allah who told him to squeal like a pig.
Thanks for helping your brothers pal. Ya just gotta love that false moon god allah.
ROPMA
35 seconds – good thing they didn’t have to really get nasty like withholding his ice cream.
Bet his buddies who he ratted out really appreciated his withstanding this extreme torture.
A little bit of trauma, effective in results and the dirtbags are none to worse for wear afetr a few minutes recovery time. What the hell is the bfd if this saves thousands of lives. These crapweasels need a blanky and a binky whining over all this.
This is an embarrassment. They’ll talk because we torture them? And we’re supposed to feel good about that?
And Texas Tiger, I’m sure there were some American soldiers who gave away legit information when being tortured by the NVA. And there were others who didn’t talk or gave false information. In other words, all the information received was highly questionable. It’s no different here.
This makes me sick.
I don’t think there’s enough cellophane in the world to cover Ted Kennedy’s blowhole.
ALERT
Uh…yeah.
And your point is?
This is not torture. No blood, no pain, no lost fingers or toes, no beatings, no physical or prolonged psychological damage.
And Rusty – they were able to verify the info. People are alive today who would not have been without the water boarding. How many are you willing to sacrifice to feel morally superior?
And as the Guantanamo Bay Hearings take place Algeria is attacked by stateless terrorists.
Water boarding includes choice …
I was just watching the Senate Judiciary testimony on C-SPAN, and the dems, especially Durbin and Feinstein still don’t seem to get who it is we are dealing with.
All of this talk about America being better then our adversaries, and what an embarassment Gitmo is. According to the Geneva Convention, most of the detainees are unlawful combatants, not in a uniform, not fighting under the flag of any country, using terror tactics on unarmed civilians. Any civilized country would execute them on the spot, like they would a rabid dog.
Feinstein’s closing remarks in the first round of testimony were almost laughable when she referred to the “undeclared war”, and the fact that we may be fighting it for decades, so some of these detainees might be held for essentially life sentences. My question for her is, who do we declare war on Senator? They follow no laws, they have no official government sanction, they follow no rules of “civilized war”. All we can do is call the exterminator.
Sorry for the rant, but these a-holes have got me up on the governor this morning.
I’m glad lives were potentially saved. But I still don’t feel right about it. Torture is wrong no matter what information we get from it. Even the stupid “ticking time bomb” scenario. A willingness to torture means America has lost its way.
Because waterboarding helped Abu get in contact with Allah, it is clearly protected under the First Amendment to the Constitution as an exercise of religion.
Rusty, you are an embarrassment, and you make me sick.
Read this opening graph from Capt. Ed’s post about this, and consider carefully the highlighted portion:
There it is in a nutshell. Does protecting the American people from these barbarians do nothing but embarrass you? Would you rather see another few thousand dead Americans than be embarrassed?
I don’t give a rat’s a$$ how you feel about waterboarding. It has saved American lives and prevented our enemies from carrying out their murderous plans.
That. Is. The. Only. Objective.
#21
Perfect TF for the resident troll.
GSP
The Democrats think there’s a nation called Alqaedistan.
The push to end waterboarding is part of the bigger socialist democrat push to end the war. End the war at all cost. Surrender at every opportunity. Surrender in spite of victory. Surrender without regard to our soldiers. Socialist democrats will not be happy until the U.S. is no longer a super power and every American is dependant on the government for its survival.
Rusty I went through the Air Forces Survival School in 1979 when the memories of the torture our guys that survived in underwent as guest of the North Vietnamese. The lessons learn were extremely fresh in everyone’s mind. We were privileged to talk with some of the men that survived and made it home. You have no concept of what torture is buddy!
Water boarding simulates drowning which is a horrible way to go. This technique appears to very effective in breaking those that would saw our heads off resulting in only making them uncomfortable. If it has them crying like a little girl spilling their guts in less than a minute it works for me. These people are not protected under the Geneva Conventions or Law of Armed Conflict they are unlawful combatants.
That’s basically McCain’s position (“if it’s necessary, go ahead and do it and I won’t prosecute”). Moral posturing, fah.
It’s one of the reason’s I won’t vote for McCain.
Rusty – What would you let us use? How can we convince religious fanatics to give us the information to save lives?
These procedures are in use because they are more humane than traditional torture. And they work.
Other credible sources say he was too low level and too stupid to have any useful information. Some say that he was responsible for many of those bogus terror alerts.
One clue that someone is lying is that they don’t give specifics. Which plots did they foil? Anyway, I will think about believing this when there’s more evidence.
First you guys believe Bush when he says we never torture, then you believe his “leaker” when he says torture produced results. You can’t believe both, or can you?
That’s why you’re not in charge of protecting our country (thank God).
Then we “lost our way” a couple of hundred of years ago. You think that there was no “torture” (far, far more painful & permanent than waterboardinng) during the Revolutionary & Civil Wars, WWI & II and all wars in between?
Maybe we did’t loose our way, maybe you don’t really understand America quite as well as you think you do.
Alert#2
True Fact AJ
I actually regret leaving a comment here since I don’t want to exacerbate my reputation as a troll and I admit I’m torn on the issue. Saving American lives should be a priority. But to reach that goal at all costs is equally problematic. I think (along with previous American generations) that waterboarding is too far. And if it saved lives, I’m happy…but that doesn’t excuse the act.
If that’s the case, shame on me for being such an elitist. I hope you’re wrong though.
Ha. I meant “idealist.” Not elitist. I am far too broke call myself “elite.”
But, it’s funny cause I’m a liberal!
Rusty with all due respect, I dont think you know what you are. You seem nice enough, but man, wake up.
I would echo what Boomer says about torture. I also had the privilege of meeting several Navy pilots who were captives of the Vietnamese in Hanoi. I even had a couple of them as instructors at USNA and other places in my career.
Their stories of what they endured in captivity would make your hair curl. Some of them even told me that they felt lucky to be held in Hanoi, because the grunts out in the field really got the crappy end of the stick.
Nearly all of the men that I had the privilege to speak with said that their faith in the Creator, and in their country was what kept them going. Men like Admiral Stockdale, who beat his own face to a pulp with a stool, just so they couldn’t force him to be interviewed by the anti-US media.
So don’t talk to me about human rights. Don’t talk to me about due process. The John Wayne idea of always taking the first punch, and then getting up off the ground and winning the fight doesn’t work in modern warfare as well as it worked in the westerns.
Instead of waterboarding, how about dunking? Recently watched “March of the Wooden Soldiers” 1934 version (no, it wasn’t on TV, I had to buy the DVD)and they dunked Hardy and he seemed ok.
#35, I don’t think Kiriakou is Bush’s leaker. I think he’s Reid’s leaker. Like I posted earlier, why is he out giving interviews? What good does his leaking do President Bush? I don’t trust the guy one bit. I hope that the information is true and could care less if we waterboarded the loser. But there is something more to Kiriakou. I’ll bet your life on it.
Actually, it does. This procedure has definitively saved American lives, and most likely lives in other allied countries as well. That fact does most certainly “excuse” the act, and would “excuse” even more unpleasant procedures beyond waterboarding.
After all, the entire purpose of this is to prevent mass murder. That is a noble and just objective, which must be done.
If we have another attack on American soil, you can go explain to the families and friends of the dead Americans how embarrassing it would have been to save their loved ones from a gruesome and torturous death. The stakes are too high to engage in all this academic hand wringing. I’m glad that there are people with the stones to do these unpleasant things for our benefit. You should be as well, but you are more concerned with abstract concepts and how they make you feel, than concrete results.
That makes me sick.
Let’s look at this from the liberal perspective:
Waterboarding = torture
Getting slowly put in a plastic shredder feet first – not torture
Panties on your head = torture
A woman spending 20 hours being assaulted in a rape room – not torture
Any questions?
Why does the Left deny this?
There is a difference between torturing someone for fun & profit and torturing them to save lives.
Sunday in that church in Colorado there were two shooters, two killers. One fired to kill innocents the other to save them. One was evil, the other good. But they both killed someone in a church.
To say that torturing makes us just like our enemy is like saying there was no difference between those two.
I don’t mind exacerbating my reputation as a troll, but I’m not going to argue the rightness/wrongess of waterboarding, but the wrongness of spitting on the rule of law. If the supporters of waterboarding had the courage of their convictions, they wouldn’t be talking about the pending law in Congress, they’d be advocating the U.S. leaving the Geneva Convention.
I took a ton of flack from my fellow liberals for supporting Bill Clinton’s impeachment. Remember — rule of law? I’m truly surprised (really, I am) at how flip the arguments are on this board in favor of breaking the Geneva Convention (from ignoring it and arguing “torture works” to pretending waterboarding isn’t torture or that the GC doesn’t apply to “enemy combatants”).
When a terrorist attack hits us again, many, if not most, voters are going to agree with you: do whatever it takes, etc. I could repeat the usual arguments why I think this is both morally wrong and counterproductive. But what is inarguable is the damage NONOBJECTIVE law can do — as Ayn Rand wrote, it’s the most destructive force in the world.
Waterboarding, in my humble opinion, does not qualify. 35 seconds of subjecting a person to a process some of our own troops undergo in training, that leaves no physical damage, doing nothing other than scaring the bujeezuz out of them for less than a minute isn’t torture in my book.
I have no problem at all with this procedure. . .not when it’s acceptable to the public that our nation’s police use violence or the threat of violence on occasion to interrogate those suspected of severe crimes within our own borders.
Right is right, lol!
Alert#3
Oh, and Victor 29, your last comment was excellent.
Because to the left this is all about domestic politics. This is about votes for Democrats in ’08, and nothing more. A good many of the lefties think the entire struggle against jihad isn’t a real threat. They envision Cheney and Rove making up all the reports about the threat, and it’s all the “politics of fear”.
They just don’t get it.
AJ…I hear ya !!!
AJ I get the feeling that there are people on this site right now that you would like to waterboard….
Yashmak
Thank you.
Brian72
They didn’t “get” Reagan deploying Pershing Missiles in Europe either.
Their arguments haven’t changed much.
Good thing he ignored them too.
It’s deja vu all over again.
ajmontana,
Looking at that image, I don’t think anyone here qualifies as a troll. “Regularly presents dissenting viewpoint” is not on the list of troll-like behavior. Nor do they post more than other regulars here, nor do they attack regulars here more than they receive attacks from regulars here, etc. etc.
Hard to see how they meet the criteria. . .IMHO.
The Geneva Conventions do not apply to spies, or non-uniformed combatants that hide among the civilian population and use them as human shields, or stage attacks on uniformed military personnel while hiding their combatant status.
We could lawfully shoot them on the battlefield with out a trial at all.
The U.S. military is being a lot more generous with the Gitmo detainees than they have to be.
What is different about AQ terrorists who infiltrate this country to sabotage and kill civilians, than the Nazi saboteurs who landed on American beaches in the dark of night with money, forged documents, and a weapons/explosives cache? They were tried by a military tribunal, and hung by the neck. The civilian court system had no role whatsoever, neither did any international law.
What has changed?
Now, half of America hates itself more than America’s enemies.
So you’re saying that Bill Clinton going forth base on Monica Lewinsky is similar to torturing/interrogating terrorists with the goal of getting information that will save American lives? If not, why bring it up?
In an ideal world, we wouldn’t need the military or the police, people do not seek to hurt one another and all lawyers are honest. This is not an ideal world.
This is the question I put to all who are critical of the current methods employed by the US. What are you going to say to the family members of the victims of the next terrorist attack? Can you look them in the eyes and say that you value the rights of terrorists over the rights to life of American citizens? Bear in mind that these are not alleged terrorists or suspects; They are caught in the field. Also bear in mind that the “torture” we are talking about is not what we normally associate with torture (i.e. techniques that physically scar, maim, handicap or decapitate).Think on that.
Why don’t these libs read the reports? Didn’t Kaleed Sheek Mohamed break under the board? I think that’s a green light for the future.
Get. The. Information.
A Gift to the Left
Here’s the best case against waterboarding you can make. Abu Zubaydah had a religious experience after being waterboarded in a government facility. This contravenes the separation of church and state.
Go ‘head. Take ‘er for a drive. I left the keys in the ignition.
There you go. It does not say “separation of mosque and state”.
Only Churches where conservatives congregate are bad.
35 seconds?!? Weenie. I can hold my breath longer than that.
‘Glad he’s not on our team.
Just guessing that he sucked at Marco Polo.
To PGTips: I bring it up as a personal example of following the rule of law even if I don’t like the outcome.
And though my post was limited to the rule of law and not the rightness/wrongness of torture, to answer your question:
1) I don’t value the lives of the terrorist more — I value the lives of the innevitable innocent people that get caught up in our sweeps, a la those Afghan farmers.
2) I honestly and deeply believe that the law saves more American lives than it costs, as difficult to see in the immediacy of a tragedy.
What would you say to the family of an innocent person who died during “enhanced investigation”? It’s one thing to have some, like those Afghan farmers who were ratted out by a local guy with a grudge and wound up in Guantanamo, languishing in prison. It’s another to torture and kill them.
He could just as easily be talking about Hiroshima.
Both episodes prevented the loss of American lives. Ugly but necessary steps to protect our country and our people. We may have “moved beyond that”, but we should be able to move back to that if circumstances warrant.
Preservation above all else.
Such as the dreaded and inhmane “panties on the head” torture.
Intensive interrogation is not designed to kill those being questioned. Interrogators want those being questioned to talk and dead men tell no tales.
I believe the only detainees to die at Gitmo are those that hanged themselves.
35 seconds? the horror!!! The sheer, unadulterated HORROR!!!! Frog march Bush straight out of the Oval Office right to the Hague I say. How could ANYONE make a human endure such horrid conditions. 35 whole seconds. It must have felt like a LIFEtime for that poor poor man. This was a man who swore his life to Allah, who had dedicated it to the death in order to kill as many Infidels as possible. Can you imagine the humiliation at having to go through this? this was not what he swoe to. This is not what he had trained for. This was an insult. This was a violation of his Islamic vows, and it was all Bush’s fault, thus Bush is a war criminal and should be punished. How dare he subject this freedom fighter who wants to destroy and kill the oppressors of freedom to 35 seconds of waterboarding torture. I say all the information gleaned from this torturous act be thrown out and this poor soul not only be freed to return to his homeland to continue his fight against the evil American devils but be compensated 25 million kajillion dollars for how he had to suffer and was treated by this evil horrible country that I am ashamed to call home.
Wpw, I can’t believe I was able to keep a straight face that whole time. What do you think? Who did I sound like the most guys?
” If this Congress outlaws waterboarding, they will have the responsibility for the potential intel loss that it creates, and the damage that loss eventually does. ”
OK….so how about we try this procedure….dunno….might work better….always taking examples from the RoP:
“This portrayal is rather antiseptic. The men were tortured for 2 hours. After being tied up naked, their penises and testicles were cut off, each in front of the other. Then those parts were chopped up. Then the men had their rectums split open. Before death they were disemboweled by a holes cut in their torso and the intestines slowly removed and chopped into pieces. Their throats were cut only when authorities arrived.”
& suddenly, waterboarding looks comfortable….I mean….@ the very least, one survives!!!….RIGHT!!!
again, #1,…w/feeling!:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=T8gPDKqXg0E&feature=related
@BB
Hence I noted in my post that the so-called torture techniques used today by the military in the West is nothing like what we know was used in the past.
I am for torture/interrogation techniques as long as it does not cause physical harm. Sleep deprivation, disorientation, water boarding, I am fine with. I and many others do not consider these methods “torture”. On the other hand, if they started chopping peoples fingers off and mailing the bits back to their relatives, that I will have a problem with.
I guess part of the problem is that the Geneva Convention makes no solid attempt at defining the term “torture”. Therefore I have taken the liberty to lift a definition off the pages off the UN Convention Against Torture. Here is the relevant definition of torture:
It’s not a great definition, but it’s a start. My point remains. Nothing being done to terrorists by the West can be interpreted as causing “severe pain or suffering”.
From the Red Cross web site on international humanitarian law; opening sections of the Geneva Conventions,
Art. 13. The present Convention shall apply to the wounded and sick belonging to the following categories:
(1) Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict, as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
(2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) that of carrying arms openly;
(d) that of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
(3) Members of regular armed forces who profess allegiance to a Government or an authority not recognized by the Detaining Power.
(4) Persons who accompany the armed forces without actually being members thereof, such as civil members of military aircraft crews, war correspondents, supply contractors, members of labour units or of services responsible for the welfare of the armed forces, provided that they have received authorization from the armed forces which they accompany.
(5) Members of crews, including masters, pilots and apprentices, of the merchant marine and the crews of civil aircraft of the Parties to the conflict, who do not benefit by more favourable treatment under any other provisions in international law.
(6) Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy, spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
Sorry for the length, but I see several glaring violations by the AQ thugs.
Okay, I hate to side with the libs but I think they are on to something here.
NO MORE TORTURE!
Rather, we shall employ new tactics that have proven that our enemy really does belong to a religion of peace.
No torture, we just drill holes in their bodies, chop off their heads with knives and shout lots of religious slogans while we do it, invite the liberal elite to dinner and tell everybody we are the nation of peace! That way, as with those we are fighting, there are no cries about torture. After all, if they can do all of this and still be considered a religion of peace, we should be able to do it and still be viewed as a nation of peace right?
When they begin following the tenets of the Geneva Convention I will view that as a valid argument. Until then and according to the Geneva Convention they are not in the uniform or clearly identifiable as enemy combatants and can be legally shot on sight.
To even dwell on whether or not these people deserve equal protection under the law of this nation is beyond asinine.
Just heard
HairyReedHarry Reid on the radio declaring that waterboarding is torture. That’s conclusive proof waterboarding is not torture.Esplaining the legal aspects of war to a Liberal is like trying to explain quantum physics to a ladybug. Both is a severe waste of time as neither one listens nor understands a word you are saying and is going to do whatever it wants to do regardless anyway.
lol texas tiger, listening to Harry “Tommy Boy” Reid is torture. Craptacular Crapweasel that he is.
water and board.
go gett’em guys!!!
You’ve hit upon the truth, friend. They would sacrifice an unlimited number of American servicemen before they would see one Al-Qaeda inconvenienced. Why? American troops are willing fascist imperialist tools of Bush-Halliburton. Al-Qaeda are simply acting in defense of their unique culture. In the eyes of the leftists, they are the oppressed, and WE are the oppressors. The troops are tools of oppression.
Hmmmmmm. If you waterboarded a troll, would he stop living under the bridge?
Uh, we’ve got a more complicated issue here than many of you may realize….
I am sorta new around here (seems that some of you are long-timers), but to set a general reference point, I am generally a little to the Right of Reagan. Grew up a fourth-generation Army brat — I’m civilian, but my brother and his wife are both active duty Army.
We have a complex issue here. Before you spout off yea or nay on waterboarding, read this point of view. I am usually a “kill-them-all” advocate, but it makes you think…..
Meanwhile back at the ranch, Alqueerda is claiming another attack in Algeria…
Now, previous comment being said (#81), WarTip has a point about the enemy and the Geneva Convention. It does seem like a lop-sided playing field if we are supposed to abide by this Convention when the other side couldn’t spell Geneva if you spotted them the consonants…..
LOL! OK, I’m late to the party and there are tons of good one-liners in here. “Allah told him to squeal like a pig” is another one I love.
Really, a board, a strap and 35 seconds under water is called “your first surfing lesson.”
Loud music, lack of sleep and cold temperature is your first semester in college.
OK BonsaiBilly, please quote for me the relevant parts of the Geneva Convention, and how they apply to people not fighting for a country, and not in uniform. You believe in the law, quote me the law.
This guy squeals after 35 seconds under water, and that British Sailor cried when they took his iPod. This is the clash of civilizations.
Fair enough and not too far out of line with John Kiriakou’s observations:
What I find odd is that Kiriakou came to the conclusion that waterboarding is torture years after his contact with the process. You would think that an educated person would know torture when he saw it (or first heard about it), but not in Kiriakou’s case.
Maybe the answer is in approaching it from another angle. Maybe we should draw a line and announce to the world that after this date, we fill firmly and explicitly abide by the Geneva Convention — in all matters relating to citizens of countries that have signed the Geneva Convention, and who were acting on behalf of their country.
If the person in question does not fit the above description, all bets are off. However, we as a country have to be willing to abide by the same; if a U.S. citizen crosses the line in a foreign country, we could not intervene without becoming total hypocrites.
Aye, but there’s the rub — who gets to define “crossing the line” in some of these third-world hellholes?
Water boarding is not torture; it’s frat boy hazing. BTW John McCain spilled everything he knew to the NVA, and don’t let him BS you on that, I think they turned him into a brain washed stooge. In Vietnam we got accurate, on the spot info that saved many lives, my life included.We didn’t get that info by playing footsy with Charlie, We flew in South Vietnamees interogators who would have scared the hell out of Bela Lagosi, and let them have at it.Dont tell me torture dosen’t work, it dose.
Hey, twoninerkilo — what is your take on Duncan Hunter?
Indeed, feebs! If anything, these terrorists were treated with way too much political correctness. Other than the seconds of being subjected to this frathouse prank-level iterrogation, these mass-murderers other worst complaint is their honey glazed chicken was overcooked.
On the off chance that any of you care about what actual experts think, here’s part of a longer post:
The quote is from the former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.
LOL. No wonder he’s outta that job.
>>On second thought, could Hillary be waterboarded? Everyone knows that witches float.
I’m still figuring out the cut-and-paste here. Anyway, on the quote from Texas Tiger, I was going to ask Bill O’Reilly if he was going to call-out Michelle for not policing the garbage the way he calls out Daily Kos.
DONT BOARD ME-BRO
Bonsai, we’re still waiting for you to quote the Geneva Convention, and tell us how it applies to aQ.
I just don’t get it. The Dems and Libs took out Koresh and all those women and children for far less of an offense…why are they screwing around with the Muslims?
Might take a little longer than waterboarding, but making them watch/listen to The View 24/7 should break them pretty quickly.
I know…Why does she keep you around. Must be to show how you Libbys are such hypocrites, liars, morons, bigots, haters and all around jack-asses.