Colorado Christian slayer update: Gunman died of self-inflicted gunshot wound
Several readers e-mailed last night about this detail involving the Colorado church shootings before it had been confirmed; now it’s hitting the wires:
The man who killed four people at a church and missionary training center died of a self-inflicted shotgun wound, police said Tuesday.
The anti-gun extremists who are desperate to shoot down Jeanne Assam’s heroism will grasp at this detail as vindication somehow. But if not for her courage and her steady aim, he would not have gone down:
Matthew Murray, 24, was struck multiple times by a security officer at New Life Church Sunday but died after firing a single shot at himself, the El Paso County Coroner’s Office concluded after an autopsy.
Volunteer security guard Jeanne Assam shot Murray after he entered the church. Investigators had earlier suggested his death could have been a suicide, but credited Assam’s bravery with averting a greater tragedy.
You’ll note at the end of the AP piece another attempt to discredit Assam:
Also Tuesday, Minneapolis police Sgt. Jesse Garcia said Assam was fired from the Minneapolis force in 1997 for lying during an internal investigation. Sgt. John Delmonico, president of the Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis, said police were investigating a complaint that Assam swore at a bus driver while she was handling an incident on a city bus.
The thanks you get…
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The point is he carried all those guns and ammo to the church to shoot himself. Never mind the rest of the story.
I am still waiting to hear what she shot him with.
Egads. Did Jennifer Loven write that piece? Sounds like something she’d add.
This changes nothing.
Matthew Murray entered the church with 1,000 rounds of ammunition. Nine hundred and ninety-nine were intended for parishoners and the thousandth for his own coconut.
Jeanne Assam’s actions convinced him to skip ahead a bit to the last round…that’s all.
Somehow I doubt he would have decided to end his rampage quite so quickly had he not been confronted. He certainly did not seem in a hurry to remove himself from the gene pool after the first attack.
Oooooooooooooooooooooooh! A police officer swearing at someone? How evil can she be?
Hanging a noose ok!
Cussing bad?
May God see fit to Bless this woman for her bravery and the protection of innocent lives!
I knew it wouldn’t be long until they tried to dig up some dirt on her. Still doesn’t change my opinion of her heroic act one bit. If she wouldn’t have confronted him he would have marched through that church and targeted, and probably killed, scores of people before he ran out of ammo or somebody stopped him. The only reason he shot himself is because he was a pu55y and didn’t expect there to be somebody to fight back.
Great news! Her conscience is clear, and he’s still dead.
I thought the guy was carrying an AK-47, how many guns did he have??
I also thought he had 1000 rounds on him…not shotgun ammo, that would be over 100 lbs. of ammo…….
Amen….. (no pun intended)
What would it matter if she in fact was fired from your job in the late 1990s? We have all made mistakes, bad decisions & had confrontations with co-workers that don’t look to good years down the road. If I were a cop I’d probably use profanity on occasion too.
I would assume that there was much more from the police officer who said she had been fired that was was in the AP report. Possibly good stuff??? probably.
First - they have to dig on “homeschoolers” and now this woman has a character flaw that they think they found. Like she’s the first…
Would it have been better if she would have been allowed to kill more people? Fact is she made a difference.
A police officer who has never sworn…now that would be news!
A thousand rounds of any caliber or gauge is going to be a heavy burden. Though I think the new burden he bears will make it seem light by comparison.
Open the gates Beelzebub! Ya got company coming!
I still love her.
Open note to Jeanne Assam from DelosWorld.
DelosWorld is single!
Doesn’t change my opinion one bit. Even though he finished himself off, she still stopped him from killing or wounding more people than he did. She’s still a hero in my eyes.
A job well done, Ms. Assam!!
She did the right thing, saved lots of fellow citizens, and the thanks she gets is to have her good name muddied?
Thanks MSM.
I still love this woman. And I also love my 40 cal. (And if my wife’s reading, her too…)
…and she still saved countless lives!
I live in Minneapolis, home of the ridiculous Star Tribune. And so many of us are forced to translate stories to find small snippets of truth.
And so the way I read this is:
lying during an internal investigation = she didn’t go along with covering for someone
investigated for swearing at a bus driver = she didn’t go along with covering for someone
They have quotes from two sergeants, one of them a hack from the union = she didn’t go along with covering for someone
“The death of Matthew Murray has been ruled a suicide,” police say in a press release. “It should be noted that he was struck multiple times by the security officer which put him down. He then fired a single round killing himself.”
THAT is the definition of gun control!!! Hitting what you aim at!
There are no coincidences. Perhaps she was fired from the force so that she could be in the right place at the right time with the right training and weapon.
If the libs had the stones of this woman, we would be a lot better off. Well done!!
It was, quite frankly, surprising that the first stories appeared. After all, a legally armed citizen puts a stop to a mass killing before it has a chance to be far, far worse.
It is, also quite frankly, NOT surprising at all that the stories are now “suicide” and attempts to discredit this brave woman.
Ask this question: What would have happened if Jeanne Assam had been at Va. Tech on that fateful day?
Covet your second amendment rights - it is more and more becoming imperative to defend yourself against those who would do you harm.
…in other AP news, today Congressional Democrats are looking into rescinding all Congressional Medals of Honor. “I was shocked to discover that some cussing might have been going on during their tours of duty” said one Senator.
Email address for MPD is police@ci.minneapolis.mn.us .
Contact info for the is at Police Officers Federation of Minneapolis is http://www.mpdfederation.com/contactus.asp. I just dropped both a (reasonably polite) note of condemnation for their public behavior toward Ms Assam. She allegedly swore at someone ten years ago and three states away and they’re running to the microphone to talk her down???
“Ask this question: What would have happened if Jeanne Assam had been at Va. Tech on that fateful day?”
Unfortunately nothing different. Because she probably would’ve reluctantly followed the rules and not been armed. Although I feel it likely that she would’ve charged the VA Tech shooter with teeth and nails if nothing else.
…in more AP news, today literally dozens of unhurt parishoners marched in front of the Minneapolis Police Department demanding to be shot. “I thought a perfect saint had saved us, and she turned out to be human” fumed one mother of an unhurt tiny tot. “It isn’t right that a flawed human saved us in church” said another little old lady, “and now that I know this about that woman, I think it only right that the Police find us another crazed killer so we can be properly shot.”
#24, she thanked God so in the MSM’s mind, she’s open game.
I am very impressed by this woman’s actions. She ran to the sound of the gun shoots instead of the normal human reaction to run away. Once face-to-face with the shooter she quickly realized she was out gunned resorted to her training and fired and as I heard her say with God’s help she was able to stop a real massacre from happening. Leave it to the Associated (with terrorists) Press to turn it into a hit piece.
Our hero puts multiple shots into the guy and in the meantime, he puts one in himself and someone can determine that his shot was “the one”?
How does that work?
Where’s the bit about him firing on himself because a brave woman made him wet himself by firing bullets into him in order to stop him? We need some psycho-babble to explain the reason for his “suicide”.
And what took longer, to figure out the forensics or our hero’s work history from ten years ago? All of a sudden, the MSM does research? Hero’s pasts, we’re on it… debate questioneers, not so much.
No way, bubba.
You back off.
Yeah, wouldn’t you think the MPD might actually want to take some credit here? Maybe a “Hey, we trained her! While the 2 other (male) guards stood frozen with their weapons ready, Ms Assam followed the training we provided and come through exactly as planned!”
For crying out loud, that’s a rallying cry waiting to happen right there. Idiots.
A witness said that 2 other armed guards took no action http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2007/dec/11/volunteer-vaults-to-hero-status/
“”There were two other armed guards, but they weren’t doing anything. I asked one of them to give me their gun so I could take the guy out,” said Bourbonnais, a Colorado Springs resident who said he is a Vietnam veteran.”
Given the circumstances, just confronting the shooter and not running the other way makes her a hero.
If she had been defending an abortion clinic would they be smearing her?
I bet the reason he shot himself, after being wounded by our hero, was out of fear of being captured alive and water-boarded by Bush. Water-boarding does have its merits. As it stands, the baby of another Enviro-nut will not have to be sacrificed to compensate for this killer’s CO2 emissions while he waits and waits for the death penalty.
Hmmm, I wonder how long it will be before Planned Baronhood offers to sell carbon credits based on the amount of abortions they perform.
Yikes, that’s a brilliant insight. No wonder the lefties are gung-ho for both ‘green’ and ‘planning’. Gore going to be stumping for Planned Parenthood next??
ouch …
God obviously didn’t want her to carry the burden of killing a man. Shame on anyone who is trying to dig up dirt on her.
Oh goody. (See post 24)
************
We received your e-mail message concerning the above subject and have forwarded it to the Chief’s Office.
Thank you for contacting us.
John Gaffner
Business Technology Unit
Minneapolis Police Department
************
Michelle, would you and Bryan please go to Minneapolis and stalk…. er, do some on-the-street reporting and ask some cops why their dept is making a point of smearing a former lady officer who just became a certified hero.
If she were getting an abortion and shot someone protesting her right to choose, she might be a god to the MSM.
I love it when libs get all pissy in response to someone making hamburger out of one of their sacred cows.
Seems I read somewhere that he was wearing a bullet-proof vest, maybe her shots hit the vest, and that prompted him to shoot himself in a spot where there was no vest? Anyway you look at it, she’s still a hero.
Pathetic crap weasels.
Swearing is a crime that requires an investigation? Wow…
Unbelievable they are resorting to this. I can hear them now…
Find some dirt on this woman…anything, just find something!
And this is the best they could do?
No - because an abortion is a fundamental right. Religion - well, that’s something they’re (liberals) working hard to excise from the Constitution.
Quite frankly, I’m surprised we haven’t see a story implying that these churches deserved it, because, after all, they’re just Christians and they mad the killer feel bad by expelling him from their school. So naturally, they got what they deserved.
Has anyone here had the guts to troll some of the lefty sites to see what sort of coverage this is getting?
Yeah…not only did she lawfully use a weapon to stop a crime, she did so defending those evil Christians, AND she talked about God on public television! Clearly, she is a menace not to be tolerated, hence the smear campaign. Sarcasm off.
Bad guy dead, libs go nuts.
Good girl alive, libs smear.
Now that’s logic folks!
Matters not to me if her shots killed him or he killed himself, the fact remains that an armed citizen took appropriate action to divert further tragedy.
I will never understand the ‘logic’ behind a ‘Gun Free Zone’ or the liberals obsession with gun control.
Here’s how Yahoo’s front page has the story listed:
The Hero label, they now list in parentheses….
How nice.. Losers
Also Tuesday, Minneapolis police Sgt.
Sour grapes. Liberals get so excited when a mass shooting happens because they can exploit it to get rid of guns. The last thing they want is for someone to defend themselves, saving others, as Assam did. They resent her for it.
Sooner than we think. H/T American Thinker
Australia has a fertility rate of 1.76, replacement is 2.1, which is why the baby bonus exists in the first place.
A Wisconsin Law Enforcer wrote on another site:
Interesting because the 97 case was dismissed after a videotape surfaced that exonerated her. The way the department caved to these organizations is reportedly one of the reasons she left. Of course, truth isn’t really the point for organizations like this.
So are they happy the guy killed himself?
Liberals, you gotta luv em’
They do tend to make you laugh, eh 30 pcs.
Seriously.
On December 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm, jones said:
The point is he carried all those guns and ammo to the church to shoot himself. Never mind the rest of the story.
I am still waiting to hear what she shot him with.
No confirmation, but I read somewhere it was a 9mm Beretta.
Oh my God, guy’s it’s incredible…you’re not going to believe what I found on this woman…
Get this, in the fifth grade, she got a…..wait for it….”C” on of her spelling tests. Yeah. Wow. Print that.
xroadcop (48). That was interesting. From that same site is a link to complaints against her:
http://www.charityadvantage.com/CUAPB/JeanneAssam.asp
According to that website, she got a 24-hour suspension, not fired. Which is correct? If she wasn’t fired but MPD is claiming she was…..
I don’t know what all the hub-bub is about. MSM should be praising her since she learned her lesson. She didn’t swear at him, she just shot him!
BlameAmericaLast said:
Welcome to the Peoples Republic of Minnesota. You can actually be arrested on 5th degree assault for shouting at someone. Fortunately, about half the state’s sane but it’s not quite enough to make up for the rest.
chuck in st paul
Nothing changes the fact that she is a hero. I also live in the Twin Cities, and am subject to the Star Tribune. Terrible, terrible paper. And it is tanking for good reason.
Clinton swore at folks left and right and he lied during an investigation, but I don’t recall him losing his job over it.
And let’s not forget John F—ing Kerry
Ha-ha-ha, you can’t make this up!
He never charged an armed gunman and saved untold numbers of lives either.
OK, technically “armed guman” is redundant, but hey…
Moonbat Reality Disassociation Syndrome.
My only suggestion for Ms. Assam would be to invest in a larger-caliber handgun. Whatever it is she’s using sounds like whatever it was our troops were irritating the Moros with before we adopted the M-1911.
Chuck, I thought the Socialist Republik of Kalifornia (where I live) was bad enough!
5th degree assault for shouting at someone? You can’t be serious.
If she had missed every single shot, but this guy killed himself out of fear that he was about to be done in by someone else, I don’t care. She’s still the Hero in this terrible situation.
lol, My ex would have received a life sentence.
Those of us who are believers should pray for this brave lady. The “problem” is that she was touched by The Lord and guided by the Holy Spirit. Then, she praised Him in public! Of course, Satan will then attack.
Looks like certain members of the Minneapolis police dept. are on team Satan. We already knew that about AP!
Well they have to discredit her. Next thing you know there will be people everywhere wanting to carry their own gun, protecting themselves, their families, their belongings…it would be mass hysteria. We can’t have that. We have to nip this thing in the bud. What we have to do, is to show this woman to be slightly off kilter…someone not playing with a full deck. That way, we can still maintain that sure, she is “somewhat” a hero, throw the people a bone, but still maintain that only fruitcakes and nutjobs carry weapons.
Capisce? Liberalism…it’s Mao or never.
Oh, and did I mention she was hot? Bet she looks great in a Sam Browne.
Honestly, the HERO word is bounded around like crazy. She was brave, no doubt about it.
More school related shootings today btw…
You wouldn’t know a hero if it hit you in the a**
God continue to bless her and curse the AP!
I LOVE my 1911, absolutely a great shooter, big bang, and knock down power. The only drawback is the magazine is too small…….
He had a backpack.
I think she had a 45, she did put him down, body armor and all. Not many cops or ex-cops carrying 9’s anymore.
Several times while on the move is a pretty good shot, most people don’t realize how inaccurate pistols really are. If she had a 9mm Beretta I can see why she hit him several times and did not totally drop him especially if he had a vest on. Those rounds are crap and the Marine Corps is slowly getting away from it. Our unit will have them phased out this year in favor of just carrying M-4’s. I’ve had to use that weapon in Iraq, might has well have a pop gun if you don’t get a head shot.
The vile press is loathsome to a degree sane folks struggle to comprehend. Praise God Assam - a true heroine for her bravery - has been spared the agony of being responsible for Murray’s death. What a grand Christmas gift for a humble lady who’s one in a thousand!
If someone does something truly heroic or selfless, the MSM has a knee-jerk impulse to find something - anything - that will (in their eyes) discredit them.
If it’s a Christian, they go into overdrive (Christians are hypocrites, bigots, rednecks, yada yada yada.)
/spit
Oh, you mean like what Snausage did? Geez what a putz. What kind of a person goes out of their way to be hated like he does. I know negative feedback is still feedback, but this guy is an expert at it. I think he is the lonliest man on the planet and only comes here when he can’t find his TV remote. One day he may make enough working at McDonald’s to get cable and we will never see him again.That is, if he ever gets off fries and works register.
She’s a heroine, a great shot, *and* she talks dirty!
*swoon*
Not sure what the national coverage has been like, but here in Colorado all of the reporting on this story across the board has been of the “hero variety”. This gal can write her own ticket at this point, and as far as I can tell she deserves all the praise she’s getting around these parts.
Had the gunman slaughtered the entire church, the talking heads would have simply asked “What did those dirty, stinking religious bigots do to that poor man to make him lash out at them like he did?”
As usual, the insane, evil predator is the victim.
I don’t have any 7.62×39 handy, but my handy-dandy digital scale tells me that 100 rds of 230gr FMJ .45 is 5lbs and 100 rds of 147gr FMJ 9mm is 2.5lbs. I would guesstimate, given that he had apparently had extra mags, 2 handguns and one would assume ammo for all 3 weapons, that we would be talking ~50lbs or maybe less total load out. Still a lot to carry.
Anyone who rushes TOWARDS gunfire when everyone else is running away from it is a hero. I’m not clear from the news stories but it sounded as if Mr. Bourbonnais, either didn’t run away or also ran towards the gunfire as well. Also a brave act. As others have said, whether she killed him or wounded him such that he killed himself, she still stopped him. The point of using a firearm defensively is not to kill, but to stop the threat. She stopped the threat. Excellent example of the reason for concealed carry and elimination of no gun zones.
I don’t think I’m quite ready to believe the “suicide” bit. I mean, here’s this lady firing bullets into the kook, and he’s supposed to be thinking:”Gee, I’m getting hit with bullets - I guess it’s time to kill myself”.
With or without an armored vest, I doubt he had the time to think anything in between the hits, much less start to react. This wasn’t a half-hour slow motion deal in some stupid movie.
Also, it takes a bit of doing to point a rifle at one’s own head in such a manner as to effectively commit suicide.
I smell an “agenda” here.
Sausage #70: This is from Dictionary.com
he·ro [heer-oh]
–noun, plural -roes; for 5 also -ros. 1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal: He was a local hero when he saved the drowning child.
So, I’d definitely have to say that this woman was a hero…get over yourself.
theloneranger, I share your doubt, but the guy supposedly had at least one pistol with him as well as the rifle.
I doubt he committed suicide; the police will sometimes report that a shooter offed himself in order to avoid the inevitable leftist blowback from a “good shoot”.
Columbine always comes to mind whenever they report suicides like that. I might be mistaken, but I remember the official story waffled several times between Klebold and Harris shooting themselves versus the cops shooting them. They probably settled on the suicide story to keep lie-berals from being OUTRAGED I’M SO OUTRAGED about “children” being shot by FASCIST PIGS RAWRRRR.
Funny how they’re children when they shoot people but they’re fully grown proper adults when it comes to sex and killing fetuses.
I know I’m late to the dance, but I also consider her a hero. I do believe he could have committed suicide - that may well have been his goal all along. Many other shooters did commit suicide after having shot numerous other people. She hit him, he knew his time was up, so he shot himself.
I wouldn’t be surprised if another part of his calculation was that he could have survived his wounds and would have been captured, which he might have seen as a fate worse than death.
Jeanne Assam,of the New Life Church,is the reason that thug shot himself.He could not endure the sharp pain,of being shot,but he didnot mind inflicting the same pain on innocent Christain Worshipers.Jenne STOPPED a potential MASACRE.What the commie/pukes don’t like is She was licensed to carry a firearm.She used her own personaly owned firearm.God Bless Our Second Amendment!
When you are used of God, you will be assailed…..
Ok, this goon walks in, by some reports wearing body armor and a kevlar helmet, with 1,000 rounds of ammo, a rifle and two handguns.
Ms. Assam starts shooting back, and he’s hit multiple times. (There’s no mention if her hits wounded him but that’s the implication.)
So the now-hurting goon, probably before he changes magazines (with banana clips), has to decide if he’s going to go to the hospital and maybe LIVE, or to shoot himself.
And how does that make Ms. Assam any less heroic???
(The coward’s actions actually probably saved Ms. Assam a civil lawsuit from the ACLU.)
I was responding to a report that it was a shotgun and making a guess that a box of 12 gauge shells weighs around 5 lbs and has 25 rounds. That’s 40 boxes at 200 lbs. That seemed high to me so I cut my estimate in half. Now if he was carrying an AK-47 then 1000 rounds of .30-06 seems a little more realistic, still a lot of weight though.
I missed the shotgun report and misunderstood that in your post. I hadn’t read any verification as to the weapon used beyond “rifle” so I was using 7.62×39 as a representative rifle round for whatever he might be carrying - I should have been more clear. If it were a shotgun, 00 12ga weighs out to 1lb per 10rds, so your estimate would have been right on for 1000rds.
I guess the point isn’t really of much interest to many people but it obviously was to the two of us as a practical matter as to how things went down. I would like to know his total load out as it would give some of us an idea of what his plans really were. As you said, that’s a lot of ammo and a lot of weight no matter what caliber.
Lying during an investigation?
Isn’t that what Clinton did?
Jeanne Assam had no armor to protect her from the rifle bullets when she faced Matthew Murray, she was as exposed as the innocents he was murdering.
With her life at stake she drove a madman intent on taking life to end his own in the only cowardly way he could.
Her offering of her own life was the only thing standing between the madman and many other deaths.
Any definition of Heroine should include, Jeanne Assam.
5th degree assault for shouting
BlameAmericaLast and ajmontana, if the ‘victim’ becomes afraid as a result of your “verbal assault” you have committed 5th Degree Misdemeanor Assault. Thank the Feminazis for that one. “He scared me”, if it involves your spouse: 30 days to a year in jail, fines, loss of firearms rights for 10 years, on and on. Anyone else but a spouse and it’s usually one year probation, time served (waiting for the judge) and a healthy fine.
It was just one of those things that got my attention. In the grand scheme of things it really doesn’t matter I had just been seeing a number of different reports and most had the gunman using different weapons, I read AK-47, shotgun, etc… Just the Soldier in me looking for those types of details. (wondering how I would carry that much ammo)
In the end the result is the same, a VERY brave woman ultimately saved a lot of lives.
I don’t see how this fact changes anything. Her act was one of pure bravery. If anything, I think this would be a relief for her. Even though the guy killed 4 people, taking another human life - even under such horrific circumstances - has got to be a spiritually challenging experience. Well, for anyone who has a soul, which she clearly does.
How anyone could pass judgement on her, discredit her, or attempt to exploit this tragedy in order to make a political point is beyond me.
There is no good reason to try to disparage the security guard’s reputation. It’s nothing short of shameful for any of the reporters who did so.
Three cheers to Jeanne Assam for doing the job for which she was hired!
I’m here a bit late, but God bless that woman. I was holding my newborn son in the hospital room when this story broke, and it inevitably led to a “discussion” with the mother-in-law. She couldn’t seem to wrap her head around the “it takes a gun to stop a gunman” logic I laid at her feet. Then again, she didn’t approve of my carrying a firearm in the hospital either (or anywhere else), so who’s surprised.
Word from my sources is that the deceased was carrying a 6.9mm SPC chambered AR varient, 2 9mm sidearms, and approximately 1000 rounds combined for all weapons. No matter how you cut it, that’s a damned heavy load. This guy was loaded for bear, and Ms. Assam’s actions saved dozens, if not hundreds of lives. The word out and about is that this guy was kicked out of some New Life Church program a few years back, and had been plotting this for a while. Thank God he didn’t take the presence of sheepdogs into his plans.
And for those that are poo-poohing the other two guards who, while armed did not return fire, allow me to lay some sooth down for you: When in a CQB (Close Quarters Combat) situation, there are many things to take into account, including angle to target and backdrop. It is entirely possible that Ms. Assam was the only armed person who had A) the correct angle to make a hit, B) a sufficient backdrop to stop her bullet, if she missed the target, and C) the intestinal fortitude to pull the trigger. We don’t know what was in the background for those other guards, so let’s hold off on nay-saying them.
If he has any cojones, Bush (Cheney?) will award Ms. Assam a civilian medal for courage under fire. THAT will really honk off the libs.
NOOO, NOOO YOU DON’T CATCH THE SPIN: “MISUNDERSTOOD YOUTH SHOT BY EX-COP CHRISTIAN FANATIC”
THIS IS JUST another sad case of ‘Christian-on-Christian’ violence. (It’s in their gun-obsessed culture, nothing we can do to stop it.) The shooter apparently was misunderstood, and violently rebelled against all that Christian brain-washing. He killed Christians because he thought they deserved it. “You Christians brought this on yourselves,” Murray wrote, according to a news report. “All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you … as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world.”
Mr. Murray, who wore a bullet-proof vest and helmet, was shot several times at close range by Jeanne Assam, who returned withering fire and eventually stopped him. Assam, said her faith allowed her to remain steady under pressure. “It seemed like it was me, the gunman and God,” she said, her hands trembling as she recounted the shooting during a news conference.
SO, YOU SEE? It all makes sense now, doesn’t it? Christians are murderous, and bad, and are prone to uncontrollable gun-crime. Thank goodness for atheistic socialist reporters, who tell the truth for a change.