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On December 22nd, 2007 at 10:12 pm, DarleenClick said:
in-awe

I understand was that the CA state prison system is inadequate at this time… however, approximate 15% of CA’s state prison population are illegal aliens … county jails have even higher percentages.

I’m glad your nephew is hanging tough to not repeat his bad judgement when he comes out but do you think he is the rule or an exception?

I agree that dealing with the illegal aliens in the prison system is a major issue. I am a staunch advocate of sealing the border and finding a way to sharpl;y reduce the number of illegals in the US. That is a long-term project and we have the current reality of overcrowded prisons and jails today.

Unfortunately, this week a federal court ruled that illegals are entitled to serve their sentences in CA prisons, rather than being deported and serving their sentences in Mexican prisons. So, our hands are tied in that regard. The federal gov’t is reimbursing CA for a tiny fraction of the cost of incarcerating those prisoners – maybe the feds could be forced somehow to cough up more dough to at least help ease some of the $10B burden California’s taxpayers spend supporting illegals every year.

As for jails, in OC several cities and the Sheriff’s Dept desire to screen for illegals in the jails in order to deport them is opposed by the pro-illegal crowd. I’ll bet that the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in SF at some point will rule that activity is verboten, too. When even this commonsense approach shipping out bad guys is under attack, we are facing a major struggle to regain control of our nation and its borders.

I am certain prisoners run the across the full spectrum from wanting to do their time and get a fresh start to those who are so attached to the criminal / drug / gang life that they are just biding their time until they will be back at it with the additional “street cred” that comes from being an ex-con. What I am certain about, is that we should try to help the ones that are commited to doing the right thing.

There is a story about a man walking along a beach with his young daughter when they come across a starfish on the sand well above the water line. The man reaches down and tosses the starfish back into the ocean. The daughter says to her Dad “There are thousands of starfish, saving that one starfish doesn’t seem to matter…”. The Dad replies “It matters to the one we saved.”

I understand was that the CA state prison system is inadequate at this time… however, approximate 15% of CA’s state prison population are illegal aliens … county jails have even higher percentages.

I’m glad your nephew is hanging tough to not repeat his bad judgement when he comes out but do you think he is the rule or an exception?

For the last 5 years California has been under a federal court mandate to improve its prison system with respect to inadequate medical care for inmates and prison overcrowding. Despite spending billions of dollars annually ($9.9B in 2007-2008) and a recently approved $15B bond issue for prison construction, CA is not meeting the requirements of the court mandate. In July 2007 a 3 judge panel ruled CA was in violation prisoners’ constitutional rights and if immediate improvement was not seen then the federal government would take over and administer the CA prison system. First on its order of business would be implementation of a prison population cap.

“The state’s 33 prisons currently house more than 172,000 inmates in space designed for barely half that population. More than 16,000 prisoners sleep in dayrooms, classrooms, gyms and other spaces that Tilton wants returned to inmate rehabilitation activities.”
http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2006/08/ca_billions_in.html

“Total cost of corrections spending would grow from $8.2 billion this year to $12.6 billion in 2015 if every part of the proposal is adopted, although corrections costs will likely grow more than that due to new spending that is being ordered by federal judges overseeing parts of the prison system, such as mental health care.
Tilton said the system will completely run out of space by next summer if no new room is created. But he also said the plan does address the fact that 70 percent of California inmates return to prison. Tilton said the re-entry facilities the governor is proposing would work with inmates about to be released from prison by providing programs such as mental health care or job counseling as they leave the system and while they are on parole and would be aimed at helping inmates avoid future returns to incarceration.”
http://realcostofprisons.org/blog/archives/2006/08/ca_billions_in.html

CA admits that its current plans if fully implemented would reduce male inmate population by only 200 prisoners by March 2009 on a net basis.

On December 21st, 2007 at 12:15 pm, nyc123me said:
WTF??? How about just taking away their television sets, three-course meals and $300 an hour counseling sessions and start treating them like the criminals they are?

Just yesterday I visited my nephew in a high security prison in CA where he has 7 years remaining on his sentence and spent 5 hours discussing with him what prison is like.

Despite nye123me’s comments, it is not an experience anyone writing on this board would want to live. Does he have a TV – yes; he bought it himself. He also has a CD player with a built in radio. He is allowed to have 12 CDs, but no DVDs. He has pencils and pieces of paper but no access to a typewriter let alone a computer or word processor. He is allowed to receive books, but only 2 at a time. He may get one package every three months from the outside, and it may contain only certain permitted items. Any money sent to him has 45% removed from it before being deposited into his account for the commissary. He does get 3 meals a day, but think gray, ground up meat, a piece of bread, mushy vegetables and milk. We were allowed to buy him a frozen chicken sandwich and a frozen burrito from a vending machine in the visiting room. He said that was the best tasting food he had in the past 6 months.

He shares his one man 4’x8’ concrete cell with another inmate sleeping in stacked bunk beds. He is allowed out of his cell daily to go to “the yard”. He lives in fear of violence from other prisoners.

What DOESN’T he have? A job or any training program. Vocational courses. Transition training for re-entering the world. Classes of any kind. Counseling – while available is shall we say perfunctory and not particularly useful or enlightening – certainly NOT the $300 per hour type mentioned. He would like to enroll in college level correspondence courses, but the “education clerk” was transferred to another prison and there is nobody to ask about how to proceed. Both the gym and day room are filled with triple stacked bunk beds for “low risk” inmates. Those inmates don’t get to have TVs and their personal items are constantly at risk of being stolen. These rooms are no longer available to the remaining inmates.

He is not complaining – he is just stating that all these things make it that much harder for those inmates determined to come out better than they went in. He accepts the fact that he deserves being there and has been inspirational to me in how he has already changed mentally and spiritually. He sets a daily goal to do something that will make his life a bit better, and longer term goals to be a valuable member of society upon his release.

He isn’t eligible for the release program, but with 20,000 fewer prisoners would the state do a better job of rehabilitating those remaining inmates? Absolutely.

What about me? I am a lifelong Orange County law and order conservative who was happy when my nephew was sentenced to 10 years in prison. He agrees that he must pay his debt to society and the punishment fits the crime. I just know that this “kid” has the desire to turn his life around and that as a society we would be better off with him and all the other inmates getting some help in making that come true. If we can achieve that through providing early release for 20,000 low risk inmates, then that is fine with me.

suck up more federal tax dollars than any other state

Rant all you want but please don’t lie. California sends more dollars to the Feds then we receive back.

If he wants to balance the budget, he needs to backoff the “healthcare” issue.

Having a budget short fall is the WORST excuse to release these convicts bacl out into society.

If you cannot see why releasing convicts back out into the public before they have seved their time, before their debt to society has been paid, before justice has been served, before the victims have had their justice metted out, then I worry about where your moral compass is pointed. I worry for you and where you draw the line between right and wrong, good and bad. Why should we even have lesser crimes at all? If it doesn’t warrant 15 years to life, why even bother putting these criminals in prison at all?

Heck, the police don’t even really bother with some crimes all ready. Get your house broken into? Car broken into? Bike stolen? Car stolen? You might get a call within 24 hours to have someone take a report over the phone simply for insurance purposes, but as far as anyone actually looking for your vehicle or any of your stolen property? Forget it. As far as spending a great deal of time looking for murder suspects? Well, unless you are a cute, teenage white chick from an affluent family that plays well on FOX News with Greta, it ain’t gonna happen. My buddy was murdered back in May. Ask me if they are really doing anything to find his killer. He was an almost 40 year old 6’5″ over 300lb guy. They didn’t really give him much play on TV, let alone months of exposure on Greta, but the cute girl that was murdered the next day sure got the air play.

So where do you draw the line at who stays in prison buddy? Hmmm? Or maybe you think that they all didn’t get a fair trial anyway? After all, cops are corrupt, courts are corrupt, they are all racist, just trying to keep the brother man down and crap like that.

On December 21st, 2007 at 4:59 pm, Chief1942 said:
RetFireman,
As a retired fireman from Kalifornia myself I have to ask, what took you so long to realize that the state is beyond redemption?

Like I said. born and raised here and my wife and I have all our family here. Besides, still playing the W.C. games. (thanks again Arnold) Just got Retirement stuff finalized three weeks ago, back-dated to Feb. 15th. Hello back pay.

I understand your come back to that argument: He would get out after his time is served. Well, the loved ones of the family of 5, I’m not a lawyer and don’t pretend to be one, would sue the Governor and the state and does 1 to a trillion. Even if the state gets a defense verdict, imagine the legal fees it would cost the state. That’s just one thing I could think of. NOw times that by 20 thousand. That’s the exposure he’s opening up.

The Sacramento Bee reported on its Web site Thursday that the governor will ask California lawmakers to authorize the release of certain non-serious, nonviolent offenders. The prisoners would have less than 20 months to go on their terms.

Sex offenders would not be eligible for release under the proposal.

Judging from the reactions to what I perceived initially as good news, it is clear that I am missing something. I can never exclude that possibility; it is the story of my life. So I am appealing to those to view this article in the worst possible light to give me some reasons as to why I am error.

These people will be coming out someday. They are non-violent offenders of non-serious crimes. No sex offenders. Should anyone sentenced under the described category be given life? Might there be a problem with that? Are we all agreed that the war on drugs is a smashing success?

I am willing to concede there may more to this, i.e. ugly stuff that is not obvious, so I think it perfectly reasonable to request more data. But maybe that’s just me.