Saturday night jive: The New Hampshire debates; Round Two – Dem candidates; Update: Hillary turns Shrill-ary; Edwards: “Forces of status quo”= Hillary; Unlikeable? Hillary’s feelings are hurt
I’M RUNNING ON 35 YEARS OF CHANGE!!!! AIEEEEEEEE!!!
Update: 11:20pm Eastern. Via Hot Air, here’s more fun debate vid of Chill-ary/Shrill-ary/Force Of Status Quo vs. the True Agents of Change.
Update 10:35pm Eastern. Here’s vid of Hillary’s boo-freaking-hoo moment. Final question: Gibson asks the candidates what moments they’d take back. Hill’s now musing that there are “one or two moments” in past debates that she’d take back. She finally says something I agree with: “Republicans have a totally different approach to how they would solve things.” Yeah. Richardson would take back his Whizzer White endorsement. Edwards would take back his fashion critique of Hillary. Obama recycles Hillary’s line about the GOP/Dem contrast. It’s over. Obama gives Hill a quick, awkward handshake and backslap:
Update 10:23pm Eastern. Richardson is giving another “can’t we all get along/I’ve been a governor/I’ve been Energy Secretary” speech. What a whingeing windbag.
Commenter DougT made me snort up some Red Bull: “I have to disagree with the notion that the Hill is skrieking. After B.O., she has the next deepest voice of the panel. I’m going with bellowing. Did you all know that Richardson has experience as a governor?”
Update 10:15pm Eastern. Hillary launches another grenade at Obama over lobbyists. Says one of his campaign co-chairs is a pharma lobbyist. Gibson challenges change rhetoric. Everyone starts yammering. Hillary shrieks about change during her husband’s tenure. Shriekshriekshriek!
Update 10:00pm Eastern. Back to Hillary…WMUR guy asks her about likeability. Message: You’re not likeable. HRC: “Well, that hurts my feelings.” (Laughter) So staged. So fake. Awwwww. All together now: Boo-freaking-hoo.
Obama cracks: “You’re likeable enough, Hillary.”
WMUR guy asks Obama to respond to GOP attacks on Obama in earlier debate. “I have to admit – I was going back and forth between the debate and football.” (Laughter.) Hah. Just like Bryan.
FWIW, here’s a wire report on Hill’s attack on Obama changing positions.
And here’s vid of a Bill “Mr. Foreign Policy Experience” Richardson gaffe.
Update 9:54pm Eastern. First commercial break. Bill Richardson jumped right out of his seat to get away from Shrill-ary.
Update 9:43pm Eastern. Shrill-ary’s calmed down for the moment. Gibson asks her about the surge. HRC: “It’s time to bring the troops home…as quickly and reasonably as possible. George Bush doesn’t intend to bring them home…I will.” Richardson: “The policy is a massive failure.” Gibson: All of you wanted troops home last year. Obama: “It was a mistake to go in from the start…we have not made ourselves safer…”
Update 9:38pm Eastern. Hillary’s screech-o-meter is through the roof. She is pissed–I know, I’ve used that word again, but that’s the only proper description–at John Edwards. Look. Meee-OW:
Update 9:27pm Eastern. Gibson invites dialogue between Hillary and Obama on change and experience. Here we go…
Hill: We’re all advocating for change. Goals, principles. Part of what this primary process is all about is to look at our records. Obama could have a pretty good debate with himself, as the AP put it. (She is saying “you know” a lot. Nervous and elliptical.) I have no problem with whatever scrutiny comes my way.
Obama: I have been entirely consistent on my position on health care. He takes her attack straight on.
Hill: You have a mandate that parents cover children. You stop short on universal health care mandate. You’ve changed positions over three years. Patriot Act, funding for Iraq war. Looks like she has gotten an energy boost.
Obama wants to respond. I have no problem with you pointing out differences. On parental health care mandate, children don’t have a choice. I believe adults will choose coverage if it is affordable.
These are all good public servants (referring to candidates). But it’s important not to distort. People are looking at folks who are straight about the issues.
John Edwards: Both Obama and I are powerful voices for change. We finished one and two in Iowa. The forces of status quo attack (chiding Clinton for attacking Obama). Every time we speak for change, the forces of status quo strike.
“Forces of status quo” = Hillary Clinton. I didn’t hear these attacks from Sen. Clinton when she was ahead.
Hillary’s got her back up. Change is about working hard! I’ve made change! ChangeChangeChangeChangeChangeChangeChangeChange!!!!!
Update 9:23pm Eastern. Hillary looks tired. She needs a Red Bull.
***
Round One is here. Now, it’s the Dems’ turn.
First question is on nuke terrorism. Gibson asks Obama if he stands by statement that he’d invade Pakistan if necessary.
Gibson: What you’ve just outlined is the Bush doctrine.
Obama: No. bin Laden is in Pakistan. This is not speculation. Make sure we strike anyone who would do America harm as long as we have actionable intelligence.
John Edwards tries on his superhero costume. He’ll go after bin Laden.
Waiting for the Smartest Woman in the World to answer…
Richardson says he’d try “diplomacy.” Wow. Hillary looks really pissed–sorry, it’s the only word that fits–at Richardson. I think she’s still mad about Iowa.
Gibson: Should we go into western Pakistan and try and take bin Laden out?
Richardson: If we have actionable intelligence…
Hillary’s turn. Looks like she memorized her talking points.
I need another Red Bull.
Gibson follows up with a question on possibility of nuke attack on American soil.
Scary thought: John Edwards as president the day after a nuke attack on American soil.
Obama: Rebuild the nuclear non-proliferation treaty.
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A tax is passed on to the consumer, but a mandate doesn’t result in costs being passed to us?
Hey Hillary! As long as you’re making change, can you give me 4 quarters for this dollar?
Does Obama not understand the difference between restricting “pollution” and reducing greenhouse gas emissions? Hmmm… shows a lack on scientific understanding.
Every one of them (even the moderator) buy into global warming
Did he just say that changing lightbulbs will create jobs?
You got me taylork. Can’t type fast enough tonight.
Bellower is talking economic gloom and class politics. Hooray!
Hill, when we have the first quarter of negative growth, then you can talk about a recession, until then you’re just fear mongering. Oh wait, only the GOP can do that, my bad.
Hill dissed 5% unemployment
Bill never got below 5.4
Now Hillary is banging the economy. Economy bad – Hillary still hasn’t noted any achievements. Sorry, I’m editorializing.
The energy companies are remarkably efficient. It would be convenient to stop the restrictions on building new, high tech energy facilities.
Is it my imagination or is she melting under the lights?
Every fix is big government
They can’t even conceive life without government
Since when is 5% unemployment a crisis? Isn’t that what economists believe to be the prime unemployment rate?
I’m sorry I should have said 3 quarters. You know she’s gonna keep one for the chilllren!
Taylork, they want us to change out our inexpencive incandcents light bulbs and put in those Mercury contained headache generating compact florescents that cost 3 times the amount of a standard heat generating bulbs. Makes sense.
And I’m shopping for furniture too.
How the heck does anyone intellectually equate health care with Exxon’s profitability? Does anyone realize how long Exxon did NOT have high profits?
Every one of the dems want take from someone to give to someone else
pure socialism
When I have him off screen, Edwards sounds like Ross Perot with a head cold.
I’m sorry did the Constitution get changed? Is Bush running again?
Tax and spend. Require and mandate. Force and change. These people are so out of touch with reality it’s staggering.
Did Edwards just claim that there are 200k homeless veterans in this country? Can he really believe that?
Wait, was Bill Richardson a governor? I didn’t catch that.
$75,000 or less? Is $75,000 the new rich that doesn’t deserve a tax break?
I think he may have been secretary of energy at some point
Hillary dodges the what did you say wrong question
Hillary was specific? Huh, I’m shocked.
So what RIchardson just said, is that he has a favorite SC justice, but he knows nothing about them?
Kissy, kissy, Silky and Hillary. Ugh.
Bill Richardson has not only been governor, he’s also made a lot of mistakes!
I think “Well that hurts my feelings” beats last years “Don’t tase me bro”
“Ending the politics of fear”?
That is ALL that we’ve heard for the last hour from this quad.
Of the 4 getting ready to leave, only Obama has the dignity to listen to Gibson. The others were ready to saddle up.
I suggested after the first couple of debates that each candidate make a video for their website and answer every question in a debate they appeared in even if they were not asked the particular question during the debate.
OK Gang -
Who won the Republican debate?
Who won the Democrat debate?
The Republicans won the Democratic debate
I’m voting for Richardson for Governor of the United States.
After he led New Mexico to the brink of nuclear war with North Korea and stared them down, I can’t imagine a more qualified candidate.
Closing comment. I don’t think that Hillary had an opportunity to rip at Obama the way that was presented in the MSM earlier today. I was expecting more of a bloodbath and all I got was useless retoric. The Big “L” with Iraq was obvious. None would admit that our military has brough calm under the leadership of Petreus. This in itself is shameful for the Dem’s. Falling back on the same ole montra of the Iraq government’s failing does not explain the success we are seeing today.
Obama’s take on the surge is that the reason the Sunnis started fighting AQ in Anbar is because Democrats were elected in the last Nov 2006 election, no lie!! It isn’t that AQ was torturing them or killing them it was because they the Democrats gained power in the American legislature, and this so Scared the Sunnis that they decided to act against AQ. (The Obama reasoning because the Sunnis knew, that the Dems would be so tough on them, and expecting progress from them) To Sum up, The Sunnis in Anbar, more afraid of one of the lowest rated Congresses in American History and not Alqeada torturing and killing them and their familys, neighbors. I don’t hear any “Leadership” answers, I hear “Politics”
If any of these folks, want to be LEADER of the FREE WORLD, maybe they want to sound like a Leader and not a bunch of lame Politicians.
Obama the stark contrast between the Democrats and the Republicans in tonight’s Debate, all I hear is buzz buzz buzz this is putting me to sleep.
Oh I pity the fool! that votes any of these BUREAUCRATS into the highest office in the land.
Cha Cha Changes…Yeah check your pockets make sure there isn’t any missing. Taxing, yes it really was and will be very Taxing.
That’s being far too charitable…
Thompson & Obama. This debate killed any chance Hillary had left in NH.
Thompson & Obama. This debate killed any chance Hillary had left in NH.
Mookie – I’m with you. Thompson took the Republican debate by being calm clear and staying above the fray.
Obama only had to rise above Hillary. Hillary couldn’t answer a question (as usual), acted shrill (again) and Obama seemed calm and professional by comparison.
Richardson could’ve won. Too bad he didn’t have executive experience, like governor or something.
I didn’t hear the GOP debate, forgot it was on. But I do have to point out this sites, (rather, the commenter’s pro-Thompson bias, myself included)), so I have to ask, who won the GOP debate, AND who placed second?
Charlie Gibson wasn’t half bad.
But I still refuse to watch ABC!
ROFL
I think most of the Republicans did well and there wasn’t a clear winner or loser per se. McCain and Paul had some shaky moments but, the losers on the Democratic side, the debates were night and day.
Will you stop calling him Silky Pony ???
He’s Hugo Chavez! I can’t express how dangerous it would be if he got ANY power, much less POTUS. Twice tonight Hugo Chavez had commercials on and every word came out of Edward’s mouth.
And I’m pretty sure it was Joe Kennedy making the oil deliveries, telling us how rotten America is for not taking care of the cold poor, so Hugo will do it for us.
They think that Edwards and Obama double teamed Hillary really ?
They all sounded so lame on National Security not one of them stood out on this Issue. The Middle East is in transition and we need someone in the White House, looking out for OUR interest.
They said McCain did well on the Rep side, they won’t make a definitive statement about the Dems, I guess ABC thinks they tied? Hillary – Obama – Edwards.
In the democrat mind, there are no winners or losers, only participation trophies.
Unfortunately, I missed the R’s debate and I’ll have to find video or clips.
As far as the D’s go:
1) As much as I pick on BR, his folksy attitude and constant reassurances that he’s been there and done that will resonate with some voters.
2) B.O. sounds good. He is polished and well spoken and people irrationally equate that with intelligence and having a plan (much like the irrational equation of GWB’s tongue slips with stupidity and not having a plan.) But, really, he sounded empty. No substance that I could detect. Nothing a voter could sink his or her teeth into but a handsome suit. Still, that’s enough for many.
3) Edwards was channelling Bill Clinton’s mannerisms and that charming accent. When he told his poor sharecropper story, I expected to hear that one of his grandparents was an African American. He spent most of this debate comparing (not contrasting) himself with B.O. He wants to be VP, which would make becoming President much easier in 8 years (or so he thinks.) He only got excited when he bashed corporations, which, to anyone who gives it a nanosecond’s thought, knows that that business model is the lifeblood of the world’s economy. The D’s make “profits” sound like a dirty word, don’t they?
4) The Bellows actually did ok, but she looked a little under prepared. Apparently, she was married to a president in the past and this gave her a lot of exposure to the job. (Read any entendre you wish in that last statement.) It’s tough to agree with her fairly well known positions on health care and Iraq, but she isn’t after my vote. She’ll pull her share of the voters in NH, but I don’t think she’ll win.
It’s unfortunate, but many Americans are taken aback by strong political opinions from women. It’s one thing if those opinions are commentary (where they can be safely ignored), but when they could be policy-making opinions, well, that makes us a bit uncomfortable. The Bellows just isn’t moderate enough to smooth out the discomfort.
(The sexism was clear when remarks about clothes and looks permeate the dialogue. Can you imagine the good ol’ boys doing that? “You look stunning in that cravat, Barack. I take back my comment about your decision to wear that Paul Simon bow-tie last week.”)
Doug –
Re. sexism:
Live by the gender card, die by the gender card.
If she’s going to pat herself on the back and crow about how wonderful it would be to have a female president, as she did in tonight’s debate, she has to take the female-centric lumps that come with that.
If I hear the word change one more time I think I’m going to throw up!
Oh, I agree completely.
My comment was more about the behavior of the men.
We get goofy around the chicks, even when they’re as lovely as the Hill.
(I said “chicks”…sorry, that’s what we call them down at the lodge.)
Funniest parts of Democrats debate, Bill Richardson thinks the Soviet Union is still around, and Hillary telling people on the eve of Monica’s testimony those missiles that hit the aspirin factory were meant for bin Laden. I thought that Hillary’s withdrawal from Vietnam soliloquy was odd, but there is was, Iraq as if the old hippie was reliving the good times from Vietnam — You could see the helicopters on the Iraq embassy as she spoke. Just weird.
Democrats understanding of economics is lacking, especially things like the world oil market, small business and the health care industry. But what do you expect from a bunch of socialists.
Other than that, it was like watching one long drunken stupor, the whole Dims conga line looked like a bunch of light weights, stumbling around trying to look smart, all plugging change. What would they change, they never say.
Y’all are funny!
My husband says the reason men don’t like Shrillary is because, when she is all stern and mean, she reminds them of their mothers yelling at them. All I know is that her voice (and Martha Stewart’s) seems to have some type of high-pitched sonar wave that grates on male’s last nerve. Sort of like those dog whistles only dogs can hear?
Obama is the man to beat, Republicans. I don’t think Hil-Bil are going to pull this one off…
Also, Hillary has had recent Botox but it did not help the baggage under her eyes or that she is dragging behind her.
That explains what Hillary was doing all those years when she worked hard for Walmart. She made change!
Yes, but only for “undocumented Citizens” That’s one of those jobs that Americans don’t want. Heck, I have several in my house right no that i haven’t got to, just waiting for that new company to start up so I can give them a call to rush right over, have someone hole a lightbulb in the socket and a couple hundred of them turn the house.
(Lord I’m truly sorry for that joke and for all those little cute Lemmings that flung themselves off of those cliffs to their deaths and for Democrats and the people they vote into office…)
If she was my mom I would smack my dad, burn my birth certificate, change my identity, send my dad to AA because no sober man could responsibly have done that to anyone, and never speak to him again.
Looks like another election in 2008 where the choices are bad, worse and worst. For both sides of the fence.
Only in a unionized shop…
A normal lightbulb went out in our equipment staging area a few years ago, and the maintenance union yelled at us for changing it ourselves. The next lightbulb that went out took 2 days for the union to get around to changing it. Lazy bastards…
Hillary reminds me of my 5th grade teacher and she was a nurse Cratchet type with a severe harmonal imbalance. Perhaps the Dems should reconvene and prop up Helen Thomas as a candidate. Now that the MSM’s anointed one has been tarnished, they are scrambling. This is a solid reason for Helen’s slam at people like MM and you fellow “jama journalists.”
Michelle, you are starting the New Year out on a high note. Keep shining as one of the bright stars of this great Republic.
Hey Hill-Dawg…no matter what happens, do NOT let anyone see that losing in Iowa shook you up and bothered you. It might make people think you can;t handle stress and disappointment and therefore think you are a weak person, thereby confirming everything that the Republicans have been saying about you for 16 years. If you truly want to be President, beating all the odds, regardless of the fact that a 4th grade student in a Special Education school has more qualifications than you do, than I suggest you heed this advice, especially in your first debate post the Caucus.
Hmm? What’s that? You already had the debate? You failed miserably and acted like a spoiled brat who got spanked? You were behaving like a kid who was used to getting their way all the time and who didn’t get the toy at the store they wanted?
Oooo…yikes. Yeah, well…that’s gonna cost ya. I’m going to be conservative in my estimate and pretty much say…well…good thing you didn’t quit your day job. You just might not be as dumb as everyone says.
RE: #157: There is still a choice, HUNTER ‘08! Stop letting the media direct us towards THEIR candidate. Vote what you feel is right….not whose name you hear more often.
Probably you were asleep for this, but I heard Richardson say there are loose nukes in the hands of terrorists, and another time he said that the No Koreans have nukes.
Idiot.
It was quick, but during the Pakistan question, Hillary took the opportunity to fix the multiple gaffes she made previously about Musharraf being in the January elections. Must listen to Rush or read Powerline!
Smartest woman in the world my a$$!
Someone refresh my memory,who is Richardson?No no no Michelle I’m not going to click onto Cankles and Cackles,no matter how tempting you try to make it.
I believe that would require Buttox.
Re #161, Yeah.
That makes 2 of us.
It’s a little late to gather another 50,000,000.
I voted for Thompson at the Iowa caucus. He still has a slim chance.
Isn’t it amazing that Richardson is the ONLY presidential candidate on the Democrat side who has ANY executive experience at all?
“Yo Osama, “children don’t have a choice”… are we talking abortion here?”
Osama? Brooklyn Red? Wonder how often that mistake is made? Or was that purposeful?
Now that’s the Hillary we all know – and fear! For once in this too long, two-year long campaign, the real Mrs. Clinton finally spoke up – um, should I say “shrilled up!” (Sorry, I couldn’t help.)
Thanks for covering this Michelle because I just couldn’t stomach watching the bile coming out of these clueless Democrats. From what I still see they do not have a plan to address the world’s and country’s problems other than blame Bush or throw more of my money at the issue. I have no doubt the only change I will see is the small amount left in my paycheck after they raise our taxes.
Now that was funny.
I think I could use some Guttox.
I believe it was George Bush SR who said, when the dems start talking change, watch your pockets cause that’s where they’re gonna find it.
All this about “Change”. Can anyone recall on election in the history of this country where the election of a new President did NOT bring about change? It is a moot argument. The change is a natural replacement of administration. Did not the 2006 elections when there was not a presidential election bring about change? The power in congress changed. All this about change is a bunch of crap by a panel of crapweasels.
There has been a Bush or Clinton in the white house for how many administrations? Another Clinton CAN’T bring change. This is America just say NO to dy(nasties).
It was amusing to listen to Obama try to say his preemptive strike is not a Bush preemptive strike, and to Hillary say that a state that harbors a terrorist group will be held as responsible as the group itself.
Both pillars of the Bush doctrine in one night, and it was the Dems who said it!
Good moderating by Gibson. Well done.
Sorry, can’t comment much. Switched to recorded tape of “24″ before commercial break.
It was either that or throw up all over my new chair.
Getting to this rather late, I know, but I think I’ve recovered my voice that I lost screaming at the tube last night. Why, or why, did no one ask her for a freakin’ list of her 35 years of change? And while I’m at it, why does ABC News employ George Stepha-hoop-olus? Just to keep a Clintonista around?
George “Binkee” StepinAllofIt….tool and Diane Sawyer….high gag factor….acting like they are all so down with new media like facebook. barf.
Did anyone else think Hillary sounded like the seagulls in “Finding Nemo” who were always chiming “mine mine mine mine” with her “Change…..blah blah blah …. change….produce….change”….
Gawd give her 4 fives for her 20 and kick her off the stage. Vacuous non-visionary oligarch with no business being president of anything above some local charity.
It has been really refreshing to watch the reporters out and about, talking to people in restaurants and bars and coffee shops, getting people’s reactions to the debates and seeing how many people used to be Hillary supporters, and how many are now not only NOT supporting Hill-Dawg, but are actually repulsed by her and are sounding…dare I say it…like Republicans when they speak of her.
That’s right…they are actually starting to say the same things about Hill-Dawg now that we have been saying about her for years. The more exposure that she haas been given on a National level for this campaign, and more explicitly, these Caususes, the more real hillary Clinton people have been able to see. There was actually one person on a comment board somewhere who actually said that they finally saw what people have been saying about her. She was mean spirited, she does not answer questions, she passes the buck, she does not acept responisbility, she makes many claims but offers no proofs, she keeps talking about these 35 years of fighting, but then can offer no proof about what it is she was fighting for or whether or not she actually made any headway or gains in whatever these fights were, etc.
She doesn’t need opponents to lose this election. The thing is, she and her personality and her mouth are her own worst enemies. When you lie as much as she does, when you step on as many people as she did to gain the level of power that she has gained, when you sell your soul to Satan, eventually, it will all come crashing down around you and you will have a humongous Bill to pay in the end…and you will be surrounded by no one and nothing but the shattered remains of hat could have been had you just been nice, fair and honest.
Will even that lesson be lost on her?
I missed the Republican debate in Iowa but caught the last half with the Democrats. I could relate to Richardson’s analogy of “a hostage situation”. I felt like I was engaged in one, self-imposed as it was. But, nonetheless, in one, watching all of them talk about “change”.
The Democrats are the “party of change” alright – For every dollar I earn, they want to raise my taxes more and hand me back some “change”.
Obviously, their talk on change isn’t empty rhetoric, just slightly misleading.
By the way, what kind of fuzzy math is Hillary using to come up with “35 years” of experience. Does her time as First Lady *choke* of Arkansas and the U.S. really count as “experience”? Even that, coupled with her time as U.S. Senator in New York, doesn’t come to 35 years. Why didn’t someone call her on that. Obama and Edwards didn’t have a problem zeroing in on her on the “status quo” issue. Charlie Rose should have called her to the carpet on that.