Saturday night jive: The New Hampshire debates; Round One – GOP candidates
Update 9:16pm Eastern. Here’s the vid of McCain’s knock on Romney: “You’re the candidate of change.” And more vid highlights/lowlights here. Wire dispatch here.
Caption contest!
Mark Hemingway at The Corner: “You hate the rich? No way! I HATE THE RICH! ”
Update 8:45pm Eastern. GOP debate over. Romney bore the brunt of attacks. We’ll see if there’s a backlash among New Hampshire voters to the negativity soon enough. McCain was positively awful on immigration. He has not, not, not learned his lesson. Huckabee was nervous. In past debates, he performed the best–injecting humor, memorable one-liners, etc. Tonight, he was rehearsed and careful and brittle. Meanwhile, here are a few screen caps of the photo op moment ABC’s been touting….the GOP and Dem candidates together on stage. Kumbaya…
Scroll down for GOP debate liveblogging 7-8:30pm Eastern. I’ll start a new thread for the Dem debate.
Highlights/lowlights:
7:20pm Eastern. Ron Paul blames America: “They don’t attack us because we’re free and prosperous. It’s because we invade their countries.”
7:51pm Eastern. Health-care crisis is because of “war-mongering;” Romney on health care: “I like mandates;”
8:16pm Eastern. Giuliani: “None of us has a perfect record on immigration;” Thompson takes on Giuliani’s sanctuary policies
8:28pm Eastern. McCain disses Romney: “You are the candidate of change.” McCain cackles.
***
8:40pm Eastern. On oil dependence Huckabee. Every time we swipe our credit card at the gas station, we might as well send that money to Pakistani madrassas.
Romney gets the last word — a polite consensus, stump-y ending.
Update 8:37pm Eastern. Thompson succinctly shoots down oil company demagoguery from WMUR anchor. What about their profits? Fred: I take note of their profits. I take note of their losses. It’s supply and demand.
***Update 8:28pm Eastern. Candidates address Obama/change platform. Romney talks about living change. Pulling a segue on the Obama question, McCain snidely attacks Romney: “You are the candidate of change.” McCain cackles.
Very unbecoming. (Allah disagrees with me. He says he LOL’ed.)
Giuliani answers the Obama question. He doesn’t have the experience.
Update 8:22pm Eastern. Open-borders Huckabee tries to sound tough on borders. Tries and fails.
Update 8:07pm Eastern. First question after the break goes to McCain on immigration and his changed tune. McCain proceeds to sing his changed tune: border security, employer verification, national security. But “these are God’s children.” Reiterates support for guest worker program. Spat over definition of “amnesty.”
Romney says no amnesty, pathway for 12 million illegals for permanent residency or citizenship.
Romney and McCain get into it. Romney – I did not endorse your plan. Endorsed none of them.
McCain: You can spend your whole fortune on these ads and it won’t make it true.
Romney: Your view is that everyone who doesn’t have a criminal record who came here illegally can stay here forever. Are they sent home?
McCain: Some are, some are not. Appeals to emotion by saying he won’t deport grandmother of illegal alien solder in Iraq.
Thompson gangs up on…Romney.
Romney: Are the 12 million illegals allowed to stay here or not?
McCain: The answer is we were still negotiating.
Gibson waves the total deportation red herring: Is it practical to deport them all.
Romney: Look up your Z visa. Every illegal would stay here indefinitely.
Giuliani: Reagan did amnesty. He would be subject to Mitt’s negative ads. None of us has a perfect record on immigration.
Me: That’s for damned sure.
Thompson: If you are rewarded for illegal behavior, it’s amnesty.
Thompson: You can have enforcement by attrition. Stop sanctuary cities, like sanctuary that Giuliani had.
Giuliani: Denies that NYC was a sanctuary.
Update 8:00pm Eastern. Commercial break. So far, I’d say Fred Thompson is doing well for himself. He’s shown humor and is engaged and seems relaxed. Huckabee and Romney scuffled briefly; Huckabee slipped and let himself appear thin-skinned and defensive. Ron Paul is clearly relishing the opportunity to wield his Blame America sword.
Huckabee accused Romney of not supporting the surge before he did. Romney campaign sends this in rapid response…
Tonight, Huckabee Accused Gov. Romney Of Not Supporting The Troop:
Huckabee Said He Supported The Surge Before Romney. “I supported the president in the war before you did. I supported the surge when you didn’t.” (ABC/WMUR, [Unverified Transcript], Republican Presidential Candidate Debate, Manchester, NH, 1/5/08)
One Year Ago, Gov. Huckabee Did Not Offer His Support For The Surge:
Gov. Huckabee, January 2007: “Well, I’m Not Sure That I Support The Troop Surge.” MSNBC’s NORAH O’DONNELL: “We have a Rudy Giuliani, who supports the president’s plan on Iraq. We have Governor Mitt Romney, who also supports a troop surge. How are you different from any of those candidates.” HUCKABEE: “Well, I’m not sure that I support the troop surge, if that surge has to come from our Guard and Reserve troops, which have really been overly stretched.” (MSNBC’s “Live,” 1/24/07)
***
Scroll down for first hour liveblogging.
Update 7:10pm Eastern. Charles Gibson. GOP candidates introduced. “Think of this as a semi-circle dining room table.” First question on foreign policy. “Will you run on the Bush foreign policy record or away from it?”
Huckabee points to “arrogance” of “former Secretary of Defense.”
Thompson razzes Huckabee for his change of message–now claiming we were arrogant for not going into with Iraq with not enough troops.
Giuliani: I think the president got the big decision of his presidency right. Going on offense in Afghanistan, Iraq, Patriot Act, electronic surveillance. Mistakes were made after capture of Saddam Hussein…We should increase the size of our military.
Gibson: Do you believe in the Bush doctrine?
McCain: I agree with the doctrine and I’d also like to give President Bush a little credit. After 9/11, every expert in the world said there would be another attack. We haven’t. America’s not safe. It is safer. I disagreed with strategy of Rumsfeld. I’m the only one who said so at the time. Had no confidence in then-Sec Def. Give credit to Bush for changing the strategy. We have one of the finest military leaders in American history in Gen. David Petraeus. McCain gives credit to Rudy Giuliani for leadership in NYC.
Ron Paul. I agreed with no nation-building, criticism of Clinton admin. But we fell short. Bush doctrine of preemptive war is not a minor change. This is huge. I don’t understand this. All options on the table to go after Iran? These are Third World nations. They’re not capable…They don’t attack us because we’re free and prosperous. It’s because we invade their countries.
Romney: Unfortunately, Ron, you need an understanding of radical Islam. The president is not arrogant. He’s acted to keep America safe. He did the right thing responding to the attack.
Thompson: This is a different world. Preemption has got to be an option under the right circumstances. We should only go in where we should and where we’re able to.
Giuliani: Ron’s analysis is really seriously flawed. The idea that we got attacked because of our foreign policy? It’s because of what they’ve done. Refers to returning money from Saudi prince. If you bother to listen to what they say, it comes out of their own perverted thinking.
Paul. Try to visualize how they would react if they did this to us.
Romney: I read their writings. Cites Sayyid Qutb.
Paul: We were occupying…
Huckabee: Takes heat off of Paul. Attacks Romney for criticizing his use of “arrogant.” I’m not taking cheap shots at the president. I’m going to be president of the United States on my own terms. Says the policies were arrogant, not the president.
When there is a serious threat to our country…in the heart of the radical Islamic faith, this is a jihadist problem…if you read the writings…Qutb…they are prompted by drive to establish a worldwide caliphate.
Romney: I disagree with Huckabee’s Foreign Affairs article. I did support the surge.
McCain: Did you read mine? [Laughter.]
Giuliani: *Very strong.* Answers Paul’s American occupiers line with attacks on Bali, Leon Klinghoffer, Munich Olympics…
Gibson: Move on to domestic policy. I had promised we wouldn’t have video questions. But we have a question from Bush’s last press conference…
Bush video: You can’t be president unless you have a firm set of principles…What are the principles that you were stand on in good times and bad times, what will be the underpinning of your decisions?
Question goes to McCain and Romney on constancy of principles. Gibson refers to sniping.
McCain: Refers to military oath he took at 17. Says his principles have been constant since then. He claims credit for pushing the surge first. Stuck to it and didn’t change. Glad everyone’s on board now. My principles and philosophy are those embodied in inalienable rights…
Romney: Stump speech. Strengthen families, better schools, health care, strong military. My overriding principle is keeping America the strongest nation on Earth.
Gibson notes, with disappointment, that McCain and Romney don’t sound like they disagree. “You sound…different.” Turns to Giuliani.
Giuliani: Starts stump speech…
Gibson interrupts to focus on flip-flopping, moderation for expediency…
Looks like no one wants to fight on fight night…
Huckabee says policies can change, but not principles. Recites Declaration of Independence. Endowed by our Creator.
Thompson: Our first principles are based on the Constitution. Civics 101 course. First principles – fiscal responsibility.
Paul: Why have we gone to war without a declaration of war. Unconstiutional monetary system. We don’t treat others so fairly. We’re the bully, we’re the policeman of the year. It’s bankrupting our country. We don’t live up to our principles. [Scattered applause.]
Gibson moves to health care. If we can afford a trillion dollar war in Iraq, why not medical insurance for all?
Giuliani: We basically have a private system. More government would lead to deterioration. If we go to socialized health care, where will Canadians go? [Laughter.]
McCain: Reward wellness and fitness…he’s worred about obesity and diabetes…
Romney: Touts Massachusetts health care.
Paul: Blames the war, “war-mongering,” inflation.
Paul is sitting in the wrong debate.
Thompson. Hmmph. [Laughter.] So if we would stop printing so much money, we could get out of the war and give health care to everybody…let’s face it…we’re probably not going to achieve total coverage…
7:54pm Eastern.
***Romney***: I like mandates.
Thompson: I didn’t think you’d admit it…[crosstalk]…
Romney says he wouldn’t mandate insurance coverage at federal level, but encourage other states to adopt Mass. model.
Like Fred said: Hmmph.
McCain on keeping costs down, Medicaid overcharging, disease management, etc. Does a little pharma-bashing, Hillary-style.
Romney defends pharma. They are doing the work of the free market. Innovation. They’re an important industry to this country.
***
The Facebook (yes, Facebook)/ABC News debates begin at 7pm Eastern tonight–GOP up first, then the Dems. ABC News is billing it as “fight night.” We’ll see. The anticipated photo-op of the night: All 10 of the GOP and Dem candidates on stage together. Will Denny K crash the party?
Stay tuned for liveblogging. You can watch a livestream of the debate at WMUR here.
Yes, I’ve got my Red Bull in hand…
Ten presidential candidates (six Republicans, four Democrats) will pull up swiveling chairs and take to the very same debate stage Saturday night in Manchester for two of those encounters on the presidential calendar that merit circling in bright red (and blue) magic marker.
ABC’s Charles Gibson has a bit of a different format in mind for the evening than we’ve seen in previous encounters — more genial than gotcha, like a very chatty (and very well-lit) kitchen table. But the candidates will surely provide the fireworks: In this excruciatingly brief window between Iowa and New Hampshire, subtly just doesn’t work.
The dynamics would be different even if the format was the same: We have the time crunch, of course, but we also have new frontrunners: “Barack Obama enters Saturday’s Democratic debate as the undisputed front-runner with a bull’s-eye on his back — and a humbled and hobbled Hillary Clinton itching to open fire,” writes the New York Daily News troika of Michael McAuliff, Ken Bazinet, and Michael Saul.
The Republicans get their 90 minutes first, starting at 7 pm ET from Saint Anselm College and broadcast live on ABC nation-wide — good entertainment while you’re staying up late waiting for returns from the Wyoming caucuses (and you know who you are).
The Democrats kick off shortly after that — following the photo-op of all photo-ops: All 10 on stage at once, sharing handshakes and awkward conversation.
Here’s a poll up at the Facebook politics page:
Latest CNN/WMUR poll shows Hill and Barry in a dead heat.
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Do they all get to plant questioners, or just Hillary?
You better make a six pack of red bull Michelle, it’s gonna be a long night!
Anybody got a clue if the debates are streamed somewhere?
I didn’t think you were a Red Bull person. I’m more of a Mountain Dew and beer man (no beer though; I have to watch my language this time around
God Bless you Michelle for wanting to sacrafice your evening listening to all those dolts.
WMUR is livestreaming the debate. See link in the main post.
Caucus results for Wyoming 91% votes in
Rommney 8 delegate Fred 2 Hunter 1
God Bless you Michelle for wanting to sacrifice your evening listening to all those dolts.
Sorry for the misspell!
Gee, ya think facebook members might trend a fuzz younger that most of the electorate???
Thanks Michelle
Sorry for not noticing the link, had their site open in another tab and they weren’t saying they were going to stream it.
Paul is part of the event
flashbacks? oh yeah plenty of time for this.
I know debates are important, but, seriously, what idiot scheduled having them on Playoffs Saturday?
And, if you aren’t in to football, there is hockey and college hoops.
Source = facebook??
Seriously?
Really.
Seriously??
Within 10 minutes Freddie talks about Radical Islam. Good for Republicans.
Total sports agnostic here
Those that like them fine go enjoy
For me it’s a waste of pixels I have zero interest in
Paul seems to suggest isolationism as a policy
oh great Paul wants to talk some more
This is gettin’ good!!!!
C’mon pile on Huck now. This could be fun
Listening to these men take on Ron Paul intelligently, showing they have done their homework, I am very proud of the Republican party.
Romney is FOS. He called for a timetable to withdraw back in April.
There are id10t’s who can now serioulsy support Ron Paul after he blamed the attacks on the USA on the USA?
Good gawd – people are id10t’s.
I think Fox made a mistake by omitting Paul for one reason: his liberal/war idiocy makes for a great contrast and allows all the candidates to drill home to the American people why we need to stay on the offensive againts terrorism. We don’t get nearly enough of that in the MSM.
7:40 pm : Huck is not answering this question.
Oh, terrific, ABC plays a tape of a video editorial baching republicans. These sobs at ABC sure as hell better handle both party debates fairly, because if they don’t, then they have broadcast the perfect illustration, in the form of back-to-back debates, of mainstream media bias – and prejudice.
USA is the only country that does not insure all of its citizens???? Go to Haiti. 700 miles away and no insurance! What a stooopid question.
McShamesty looks like a ghost
Will someone shut Ron Pauls mic off?
When did Haiti become an industrialized nation?
Health care is not going to change without tort reform
So basically Romney just admitted that he doesn’t support the plan he created in MA. Wow.
Bullseye!
And Ron Paul will not fix the problems with the IRS or bring about tax reform. It sounds good though!
For those that do offer socialized medicine, besides the performance issues which are uniformly bad across the board, check the tax rates in those countries that have it.
Michelle not firing out too many updates. Someone hand her a coffee the Redbulls are not working – LOL!
Yep, doing three things at a time and missed “industrialized” – LOL!! Still, I do not think that statement is anything but talking points.
Bingo
I am hearing a McCain Giuliani partnership.
Anybody arguing about what the definition of amnesty is gets a thumbs down in my book.
Oh, it’s definitely talking points. No question.
Good News about Fred!
Now back to football…..
My beloved Seahawks beat the Redskins 35-14 Yay!!!!
Rudy takes 5 minutes to finally answer, that “YES” he would allow 12 million illegal immigrants to stay here and become citizens..
We all know where you all stand on sham-nasty – PLEASE – move along!
:yaaaaaaaaawwnnnnnnnnn
I love the Hawks – taste like chicken.
The immigration debate is interesting. Mitt and Rudy are fairly concise. McCain sounds defensive. Fred sounds stuttering because he and McCain were in the senate with their heads in the sand while Mitt and Rudy were dealing with the problem.
Rudy at least was specific in his Obama answer
McAmnesty with the exception of talking about Iraq and terror got on my nerves.
McCain’s (non) jokes are Tacky with a capital “T”
In EVERY debate he says he respects Senator Clinton.
Paul
This country is never going to elect a libertarian and it would probably be an issue for him if he ran on the party in his home state instead of identifying himself as a republican.
I’m with you, MM. I liked the view of Romney just deadpaning McCain, who was too gleeful. Unbecoming indeed.
Great answer from Fred on the oil company profits question.
The only thing Paul accomplished was making every one else look good.
Ron Paul stands more for what the Old Republican Party stands for than the New Republican Party with its Islamofacism battle cry. Read a little Rothbard; “The Betrayal of the Right” to know the difference.
Fed Up
I see by the number of commenters over 90 minutes how many of us gave up an exciting Saturday night on the town to stay indoors and watch the grass grow.
This one was a little livlier but still deadly dull.
Yeah, his comment about how oil priced in terms of gold hasn’t gone up since the beginning of the war. He sure made the Federal Reserve that funds our wars via inflation look good there didn’t he?
Fed Up
Fed Up:
Are you going to continue to post the same comment about Ron Paul?
They’re all on stage now. Dems and Repuplicans. Kumbaiya time. Where’s the camp fire marshmellows for somemores.
LOL Rick. Maybe everybody is just stupified – fingers frozen.
Rick
Ah where I live I have more entertainment options at home than going to town..9 pm and the only thing open is Walmart and a mail box.
Got 20 people here watching the debates
Thompson (again) sounds good/best on answers, but not excited. Only one I heard giving workable answers, based on a free market (health care, attrition on illegals, etc.).
Romney understands the amnesty part that McCain and Rudy do not.
Rudy clearly understands the existential issue with militant Islam; the polar opposite of Ron Paul.
Romney and Rudy seem most excited (in a non-Pauline kind of way, if you know what I mean.) But I keep feeling that they are saying what they think we want to hear, and I had more than enough “Slick Willy” from the previous Oval Office resident.
Is that a picture of Silky trying to kiss Huck?
I was stunned into a stupor by Huck and Schmuck (paul). And to a lesser extent McCain
For one who continues to bash Paul every chance he/she gets, without offering substance, I’m not sure if you’re the one to ask me that question
(see #23 and #29).
But help me out here…did I repeat myself in this thread or are you talking about another thread where I made the same points?
I can discuss any issue you wish…
Fed Up
I was glad to hear most of them talk about letting the market take care of the energy problem. Except for the nod to the “greenhouse gas” idiocy by McCain they are light years ahead of the Dems with their tax anyone in sight policy.
Different thread – recycled comment.
Point taken. Not all here read the other thread.
Fed Up
Still, beats those 30 second sound bites from earlier debates.
Interesting to see which republican the dems gravitated to for the joint appearance.
Gibson actually did a good job tonight.
At least they were not asked to “raise your hands if”… Although, we could have used another Thompson moment where he took control – too funny!!!
The 71 year old over the hill AMNESTY man can do the shuck and jive quite well.
Caption contest!!! WOOHOOO!!! That is almost as good as an open thread!!!
“Huck,if you kiss me you may find favor with the ghey voters!”
“Quick, kiss me you fool. Mitt looks like he wants in on the action.”
Bottom line
Seahawks 35-14
Huh, a debate?
Don’t let me play alone guys!!!
In that pic of McCain and Hill he looks like he’s thinking about biting her face or something.
Exactly what I was singing!
My favorites and who I would vote for in this order:
1) Thompson or Romney– tied for me. I love what Thompson says, love his calmness and sense of reason. Like Romney a lot but worry about the masses freaking out about his being Mormon–which I think is a non-issue unless, suddenly, all of Massachusetts was “mandated” to become Mormon and I did not know. He is a very smart man.
2) Guiliani-like him, but think he is weak in immigration and is not good on his feet in debates. Would vote for him anyday against the Hillary or Obama nightmare.
3) Huckabee—guess I could swallow and vote for him at gunpoint.
4) McCain–would vote for him after downing martinis against any Democrat
5) Ron Paul-would vote for a Democrat over him or stay home. He is nutso.
I wonder why Clinton, Obama and Edwards didn’t try to muscle Richardson out of the debate?
Kiss me, you media darling!
Huckabee asks Billary,”Your from Arkansas? WE hardly knew ya”
Caption:
“I’m Seabiscuit!”
“No, I’m Seabiscuit”
Is Richardson wearing a rat on his head?
Caption contest:
“Pucker up.”
“Will your hair dresser give me a discount because of my bald spot?”
Only Romney and Thompson appeared presidential. I like the way Romney stood up to the low class attacks with class.
Whispers:
“Don’t look now but Ron is behind you.”
Ever heard of Duncan Hunter?
I’m not drunk enough to watch the second one. It won’t make any sense.
Photo of Hillary and McCain: he has that look of a dog just about ready to snarl and bite.
Caption:
“Sure $400 is a lot for a haircut, but they do your nails too – hands and feet”
Huck to Silky:
“Will you tell Mitt JESUS and satan are not brothers? He will not listen to me”
Oooh, it looks like they woke up and smelled the border… well maybe, depends on how you define the word “illegal”.
True, but I bet you anything liberal Huckabee is against drilling in the Arctic or the Gulf of Mexico.
Can we finally admit the guy is as loony as the most left-wing lunatic? He actually believes in time warps. He thinks that by invading Iraq and overthrowing the hated Saddam Hussein in 2003 that we caused the hijackers in 2001 to crash planes into the World Trade Towers and the Pentagon. I wonder if Fed Up will even attempt to defend that one.
Is there any wonder Democrats are pretending to be Republicans and registering Republican in droves to vote for this nutcase in Republican primaries?
I can’t look at Gov. Richardson w/o thinking of Horatio Sanz.
“Your boy Chuck Norris may be all macho about Romney, but he’d better not ruffle my hair!”
AlohaGuy, yes, I like Hunter and was commenting on the debate guys.
I would rate him up with Thompson and Romney regarding immigration. But don’t know if he will have to drop out.
Caption contest:
Gee Huck, you really fooled em in Iowa, I’m hoping to do the same thing here. Does this toupe make me look fat?
Agree with Lindsey
All this importance attached to ‘energy’ levels.
Paul has so much energy he is like Ricochet Rabbit bouncing off the walls
I want the substance behind the answers not trying to bank a cute point of the glass or a slick snake oil job.
Caption contest
I’m hurt, you don’t call anymore!
“I see you got the notice AJ”
Soap
From the photo op pics its just like I thought, Huckabee and Mc’Cain are right at home in the company of liberals and well they should, they are liberals.