“My dad found out abt mina and is goin to kill us.”
Yaser Abdel Said, the Eyptian Muslim cab driver wanted in the brutal murders of his two daughters in Dallas, is still missing. The Dallas Morning News continues to cover the story and offers new details on Said’s past history of alleged abuse (see also Rod Dreher):
In the week since their murders, friends and relatives on Patricia Said’s side of the family say they have been haunted by that final phone call, a cry for help that went unanswered for years. They say Mr. Said physically and emotionally abused his children.
In October 1998, when Amina and Sarah were 9 and 8 years old, they accused their father of sexual abuse.
The allegations were reported to the Hill County sheriff’s office, where the girls told a detective their father had been touching them inappropriately. Amina told authorities she had been penetrated at least once.
Their mother swore in an affidavit that the allegations were true.
In early January 1999, the two girls told authorities that they had lied about the allegations because they didn’t want to attend rural Covington schools and wanted to go live with their grandmother. A district judge later dropped the charges of aggravated sexual assault against Mr. Said.
Amina and Sarah’s mother and brother continue to protest that murders were not honor killings. But the testimonies of the sisters’ best friends, other relatives, and the mother’s own words to the police say otherwise:
In a brief phone call in which she declined to comment further, his wife, Patricia, angrily rejected the notion that Mr. Said’s Muslim religion or culture had anything to do with the murders.
Her son, Islam, 19, agreed.
“Why is it every time an Arab father kills a daughter, it’s an honor killing?” Islam said. “It didn’t have anything to do with that.” He declined to answer other questions.
The son named Islam is reportedly responsible for persuading the girls to return after attempting to leave their abusive father. One friend received a text message from Sarah Said that read: “Me mina and my mom r running away! ..My dad found out abt mina and is goin to kill us….B4 he tld me that he was goin to put bullet thru her head…today he tld me to get used to my sis bc shes not goin to b w us lng.”
Here’s what the mother told police a few days before the sisters were shot to death:
“Patricia stated that she was not going to call back again, as she was in great fear of her life. Patricia said she is very fearful of her husband harming her and/or her children, which is the reason she left her husband. Patricia further advised she and her children, Sarah and Amina, are just fine, and are going to continue hiding from her husband.”
… “Patricia had told her that since they are Muslim that the daughter was only allowed to date other Muslims. Yaser had found out she went on a date with a non-Muslim and became very angry and threatened her with bodily harm. This concerned Patricia because Yaser has been violent in the past and Patricia was afraid that Yaser would severely hurt their daughter. At that time Patricia decided it would be best to leave her husband and take their daughters and go into hiding.”
Debbie Schlussel heard from Sarah and Amina’s aunt. An excerpt of her e-mail:
Yes, this was an honor killing and I believe with all my heart that ISLAM, the brother, is just as guilty as his dad. Why? Because Amina would not go back home! He went over, where she was staying and was crying. “Please come home Amina and talk things out with Dad! He will not hurt you, I give you my word! I promise, you will be safe!” She trusted those words and went with him. Not an hour later….Sarah made that infamous call! She died immediately after she called as he took his time killing her. In fact, all we have been told is, “she had multiple gunshots”…..I still have no clue how many bullets he fired at her. I do know she fought for her life as there is a bruise on her forehead which shows that she did not go out without a fight…one this precious and beautiful girl lost…to a man she knew as daddy!
This jibes with other details provided by friends and family in the DMN story:
Connie Moggio, Mrs. Said’s sister, said his controlling and violent nature gripped the family from the start.
Once, he shot out the tires on his wife’s car to keep her home. Another time, Mrs. Moggio said, he blocked her car in a driveway because he thought she was going to help her sister and children escape.
Years later, when Amina was a sophomore at Euless Trinity High School, a friend said she showed up at school with red welts across her arms and back. Another time, Amina confided that her father had kicked her in the face.
“He found notes from her boyfriend,” said a 17-year-old Trinity senior, who asked not to be identified. “Her lips were pretty much attached to her braces, but they wouldn’t take her to the doctor because her family feared her father would be taken to jail.”
She said the abuse continued and threats intensified.
“I remember her telling me that her dad told her he would take her back to Egypt and have her killed,” she said. “He said it’s OK to do that over there if you dishonor your family.”
Nothing to do with Islamic cultural attitudes? Everything to do with, says Robert Spencer.
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CJ, I ask you the same question:
How religious of a person is he if he fears the worldly ramifications of a holy act?
I am most disgusted by the fact that the brother more than likely was complicit in
these murders, and that in a lot of honor killings the mother has actually helped in
or watched her daughter being murdered. Mothers have even been known to
commit an honor killing themselves. This mother has to live every day of her life
knowing that if she had stayed away with her daughters, that her girls would not be dead. It won’t bother the brother, because he can justify an honor killing as
better dead than to disgrace the family.
I am most disgusted by the fact that the brother more than likely was complicit in
these murders, and that in a lot of honor killings the mother has actually helped in
or watched her daughter being murdered. Mothers have even been known to
commit an honor killing themselves. This mother has to live every day of her life
knowing that if she had stayed away with her daughters, that her girls would not be dead. It won’t bother the brother, because he can justify an honor killing as
better dead than to disgrace the family.
sorry..don’t know what happened.
For?
Let’s consider the actions of this gent. He probably considers himself devout and found an Old Testament passage that inspired him. The remainder of Christianity, being somewhat saner, would not choose the same course of action. Therefore, no one could reasonably claim that the Bible mandated self-mutilation.
Again, this guy is a one-off–not a weekly occurence.
Sounds about as religious as the 9/11 hijackers. They acted on Allah’s will, but did not advertise their intentions. Their stateside enablers did not afterward publicly proclaim their complicity. Yet somehow, somehow their actions were intertwined with their faith.
No it is not. I am a Catholic, but I am pretty sure that Baptists are just like us..we don’t kill our children in the name of the Lord.
The Baptist may chose to shun their child, but ultimately, they answer to God…
What makes these cases horrifying is they are not hypothetical. There’s a growing body count.
Sorry, I can’t comment on what a hypothetical Baptist father might do.
I have been following this conversation and I have to disagree with you, mpChops. The fact that he ran does not prove that it is not an honor killing. It is entirely possible that he committed the crime because of Islam and then ran to avoid the American justice system. All the running shows is a fear of retribution. People who do things in faith are not free from fear of punishment on Earth. I’m trying to come up with a personal example, but our laws are based in Christianity, so finding something in my faith that condtradicts the law is difficult.
This man is not in a country that cheered his actions…he knows that he faces death for the killings…I wonder if his execution would bring shame upon his family?
That’s because CHRISTIANITY does not advocate priests molesting little boys. They took a vow of celibacy. They chose to dishonor that oath by molesting little boys and you make the ridiculous assertion while overlooking James’ comment: (”Christianity’s blamelessness for that doesn’t stem from the woman’s insanity, it stems from the fact that Christianity does not condone murdering your children.”) that there is the vast conspiracy against Islam and Muslims perpetrated by Americans. And you completely ignore their actions. You have spent all this time telling us not to blame Islam. That’s exactly what CAIR has said. That’s exactly why Ahmadinejad wants a Democrat elected as the next POTUS. You know something is up when OBL’s talking points mirror those of the Democratic party.
But you’ll continue to blame those of us who tried to prevent the spread of this “barbarity” and somehow it’ll be our fault. You’ll remain unblemished but in servitiude to Islam… If your outspokenness doesn’t get you beheaded.
I don’t wish this upon you, just trying to say I told you so.
I see the connection you’re attempting to make, but that significantly different. The didn’t advertise it because they would be prevented from doing it, and those who worked with them didn’t proclaim it because they would have liked it repeat it.
I cannot comment on this creep, pedophile pond-scum because I don’t want to get banned from MM.
The only was to describe him is with vile,dirty filthy curse words filled with rage and hate.
Martin Luther King, and most of the civil rights activists of that time regardless of race. They felt their actions were Christian ones and did not avoid the retribution of doing Gods work.
Or those who preach religious messages knowing that they’re be persecuted by those in power. Usually the message is of equality and such.
We are all human and while his daughters didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of having a life, their father is doing everything he can to preserve his. Fight or flight.
Why is OBL held up in some cave and not among the dead terrorists of 9/11. Why didn’t he board one of the hijacked planes that flew into the WTCs? Why is he hiding out now? If he practices what he preaches, why isn’t his love for Allah stronger than his will to live?
Ah, but it isn’t hypothetical. I just saw a special on PBS where this was the centerpiece of a debate on dating outside the race. The father was upset that the daughter was dating a black guy in an area where it was frowned upon and took matters into his own hands.
As an addendum, the fact all involved were Christian had nothing to do with it. Was it still an honor killing?
I don’t know if this is relevant but I know of a case from when I was a very young teenager in OK. A family lived in the boonies but we all knew of them.
The parents were very devout and brought the children to church regularly.
The oldest son was in his twenties and there had always been talk about “stay
away from ‘Joe’.” We didn’t see that family for about two weeks and finally
someone called the constable because of the buzzards over their house and he
found ‘Joe’ and the Mother dead. The rest of the family was gone. Mom had
shot ‘Joe’ because he had raped and killed a girl in another town. This was the
4th rape that he would have been accused of and the first killing but it was long known that ‘Joe’ tortured and killed animals. Mom’s note said that she and she alone was guilty of his killing. She said the courts had not convicted
him before and she was afraid they would not convict him this time and since she brought him into the world she would take him (and herself) out of
it. We never knew where the rest of the family went to, but though the Mother was sorely missed, no one missed ‘Joe’. This, I believe, in it’s own way was an honor killing and she knew that it was wrong and she knew that
she could not stand what would follow the killing so she took her own life.
30pcs,
You arguments are becoming weak and desperate. What does OBL have to do with this discussion? What does democrats have to do with this?
It’s sad that you have been reduced to this level of discourse. Your empty insults do nothing but demonstrate that you lack the critical thinking neccessary to engage in intelligent debate.
Frowned upon by whom? The Christian Church’ do not advocate honor killings nor does our COTUS recognize it.
I get that you are hesitant on labeling this as an honor killing, but the examples you are coming up with are really silly.
It depends on the tenets of his faith. If his faith teaches he is to submit to the ruling authorities, then yes, he should be willing to accept the consequences of his actions. If, however, his faith teaches that he need not submit to a non-theocratic government, then why should he accept a punishment created by and enforced by those outside his faith?
And guess what? You will find numerous Muslims who fall into the latter category. (No, not every Muslim, of course. And of course, the real hardliners don’t believe Muslims should be in Dar-al harb in the first place — except to make war on them.) But you can’t conclude that running from the law makes him less religious unless you know what beliefs he claims to adhere to.
TxRose,
I support your point. Honor killings are the most popular kinds of killings, if we simply look at what it means to murder because of honor. Honor killings plague the black community. Have many people have been murdered because of a perceived disrespect? Because someone challenged their honor?
Hold on a second. You state that as if you have actually made a clear point. You haven’t. You are the one that strayed from the facts by bringing interracial dating into this, with a hypothetical Baptist mixed in there. Show us how this is not an honor killing.
CJ,
Technically, I agree. But we’re making a hell of a lot of assumptions here. Some which are more defensible than others.
mpChops,
Still waiting for you to explain this comment. Seems to make no sense to me either. I would agree with Peejz, you have made anything but a clear argument on this thread.
You want me to prove a negative?
My clear point is this:
We call them honor killings because it involves a Muslim. Period.
When a man killed his daughter and her lover because she was dating outside the race, it wasn’t called an honor killing. It was called racist, yes, but not an honor killing even though the motivation for the killings were largely the same.
In both instances, there was a perceived slight on the father or the family or whatever. Also, more importantly in my opinion, there was a loss on control that wanted to be regained. The religion and race were ancillary to that loss of control.
After a brief survey of this thread, I have noticed one peculiar thing: those that insist these killings had nothing to do with Islam (the religion, not the son) point out that if it were religiously motivated, the father would not have run.
The flaw in this particular statement is that the Muslim terrorist b***ards we have been fighting are entirely cowards. They have always used bombs, hit and run, and innocent hostages because they aren’t man enough to face their enemies. This useless piece of human debris is no more courageous.
Perhaps the Moors and the Ottomans had courage, but the modern Mujahideen is a chicken.
Tha father knew what he was doing. He was just too chicken to stand up for himself afterward.
I guess that’s why you cherry-picked this part of my post to comment on… since it was the “weakest.” Your responses are so uninspiring maybe that’s why I’ve just stopped trying to raise the level of debate.
Go pound sand.
mpChops - You can’t keep bringing up individual instances of Chirstian’s killing their children as an “Ah Ha!” argument that Christians do it too.
The concept of killing one’s children, for any reason, is not one that exists in Christianity. That is to say, Christians may kill their children but it is not a lesson they learned from Christianity as a whole. Whether or not the Koran spells out honor killings, it is a practice taught in Muslim societies. Therein lies the difference.
Your examples of the woman who killed their children because “God told them to,” do not appear to be applicable to this issue. However, the non-hypothetical case of the Baptist man does illicit comparison. If he killed her because he was racist or otherwise did not like her choice of boyfriends, it’s not a honor killing. However, if he killed her because she had dishonored the family and he thought her death would restore honor to the family, then that appears to fit the definition of an honor killing.
By definition, honor killers do not have to be Muslim. By practice, they overwhelmingly are.
How could you be waiting for me to explain it when you haven’t even asked for me to explain it?
The burning cross was used by the KKK. The claimed by the illuminating it as a symbol of their faith. A faith that they warped to justify their actions.
Am I supposed to disbelieve what has happened over the past 1400 years; and disbelieve what I’ve read since 9/11; and instead to believe that Islam has nothing to do with honor killings; and that Islam is not a mortal threat to the U.S. and what’s left of the West?
Because, by the meaningless (from the standpoint of the validity of a debate argument), yet cunning techniques of pointing to other bad behavior to excuse the bad behavior in question, and of changing the subject; the discussion on this thread seems to have been steered to Martin Luther King, the Catholic priest scandal, and whether Presbyterians and Baptists agree with Catholics that killing one’s children is bad, etc.
Man!
If America let’s its attention be thus diverted, and its resolve to defend itself weakened, by confusion and diversion orchestrated by our domestic Dhimmis; it is, as Betty Davis said, gonna be a bumpy ride.
“The claimed by the illuminating it as a symbol of their faith.”
Sorry. Should read: They claimed to be illuminating it as a symbol of their faith.
On January 10th, 2008 at 2:23 pm, RaisedRight said:
Well said, RaisedRight. Sounds like the final word. TexasTiger, out!
I was waiting for this.
Palestinian Christians practice honor killings. Pakistani Christians practice honor killings. African Christians practice honor killings. It’s a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one.
If this is the case, every mosque in the USA should be flattened.
It’s no use. The fact that Christianity doesn’t advocate nor dictate honor killings matters not to mpchops. He’ll keep using the same anemic comparisons over and over again.
That’s the point. Islam doesn’t either. Period.
Islam is a culture.
I do not pretend to know everything about honor killings and those who commit them. I already said that other religions and cultures might commit honor killings. But I have also said that they are far more prevalent and condoned in Muslim society and I’m inclined to stand by that unless the situation is factually proven to be otherwise. I have no desire to beat a dead horse, but I would like to repeat:
By definition, honor killers do not have to be Muslim. By practice, they overwhelmingly are.
We don’t call them that, Muslims do..We call the murders, just like the example of the blacks and the Baptist with the daughter that dated outside her race.
Our Constitution gurantees a person the right to practice their religion, so long as the relious practices do not break the law.
Texan of the Year?
mpChops said:
No mpChops, apparently you missed the part that made his motives clear:
As for another point you tried to make:
I am not an expert on Islam but I can read what top Islamic clerics say about it:
I can provide many similar quotes from other leaders from the Religion of Peace. mpChops, can you provide a similar quote from a prominent Christian leader?
Here’s another quote I love because the irony goes right over the head of the cleric:
I disagree Peejz. I’ve been trying to call this murder all day, just as we would call it if they weren’t Muslim.
This is just amazing to watch. The apologist is not even making sense, and the conclusions and equivalensies he/she is drawing are not even close to being the same thing.
Look, if someone say “God told me to kill my kids, kill the people from the clock tower, kill the people with the bomb” is in now ay the same thing as an institutionalized, across the board, in the holy book, tught for centuries dogmatic practice of killing someone for embarassing the family for doing some perceived act that may or may not have actually embarrassed anyone.
You are making your arguments based solely from feelings and emotion and not even based on facts. This is the equivalent of the Liberals pulling Tim McVeigh out every time a Muslim blows something up and we say, “See, there they go again, blowing something up”. The Liberal will then say, “Well, what about Tim McVeigh? He was a Christian…why aren’t you out trying to round up all Christians yadda, yadda, yadda…” Point being, that while he may or may not have at one time been Christian, his act was not done in the name of Christianity, was not done under the guise of Christianity, did not have anything to do with any particular sect of Christianity versus an Islamic attack which is purly motivated by a religeous fervor brought on by a hatred of everything on the planet that is not Islam and doen not represent Islam.
Then, to make your argumant that this was not an “Honor killing” based on his knowing it was wrong because he ran has got to be one of the weakest forms of reasonings I have seen in some time. I mean, did you throw your back out reaching for that one? Just because he knows that murdering something is wrong, and that he will obviously go to prison for it, does not mean he will not save his alleged soul for Allah by slaying his daughters and preserving his family’s honor. He want’s to preserve the family honor, he just doesn’t want to play house with some over-grown daddy raper named Bubba. This does not prove that it was not an honor killing, and I want you to show me where you think it does. Then tell anyone how you think that will hold up in the most Liberal court in the world.
Why is it so hard for you Liberals to accept what is right there in front of you? Why is it that you want so much to believe that these things do not happen? That this religion does not do these things, that they do not treat women this way, that they do not preach hatred, death, killing, mas murder in damn near every single one of their mosques? Why is it so difficult for you to accept that their religion is bent on world domination, that their very tenets, from the very beginnings of this religion has been to conquor the world, and that they will not rest until every square inch of the planet faces East five times a day and follows Shari’ah law?
You refuse to believe it, yet you do everything you can to guarantee it happening. No matter how many people are slaughtered a day by them in the name of Allah and Islam, no matter that 14 of the 15 major wars and conflicts affecting the planet right now are all caused by this religion, no matter that the news and politics every single day are controlled by this religion, no matter that everything anyone does, goes, thinks or sayd anymore is controlled by or has something to do with this religion, you people refuse to accept the fact of the truth to exactly what they are, who they are and what they hope to accomplish. This is what troubles those of us whose eyes are open, who can read, who can see, who can hear and who pay attention. This is why we are so adamant about showing you the truth. Because we care about our country and even our Liberal friends. Because whether you admit it or not, accept it or not…you guys truly will be the first ones to go.
Really?
Peejz,
Check your source.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1512394,00.html
Here are some facts to ponder for those who want to compare Christian and Muslim cultures:
#128 SHoward….Right on, my sentiments exactly.
Too right SHoward. I believe that it was an honor killing ( though, as I stated,
it may have been a tangled up honor killing) and that even with him believing
that what he did was right, he knew that he would be arrested and put on trial
because honor killings are against the law in the U.S. That is why he ran. He is
a coward and doesn’t want to go to prison or wind up on death row. If this was a Muslim country, he would have reacted differently. And as far as his
feeling that he had lost control of his daughters because one of them was dating outside of their religion..that in the middle east is loss of face which
demands an honor killing.
It’s funny how the left, who gave us “hate crimes”, doesn’t seem to like “honor killings”.
Said cleaned out the bank account and took his passport and a pistol.
(FNC - Jan. 6)
If he used his own passport, he was out of the country before the girls bodies hit the cold steel of the morgue tables.
It’s about a ten minute drive to the DFW Int. Airport from where he murdered his daughters. He didn’t do this alone. The local muslim community, including that of his son and wife are not above suspicion.
Where was his son and any other males that frequented that household when the father was home - at the time of the murders?
Islam Said should be, minimally, a person of interest. Bet you dollars to donuts he knows when his father left, who assisted with the clean up/disposal of weapon before his flight, how he got to the airport and how/where to contact him or those involved with harboring a fugitive.
But let’s read the important part of the story that wasn’t quoted above:
Obviously it is NOT usual that Palestinian Christians commit honor killings. Since it is clear from the article that honor killings themselves are rather common, the unusual part is that a CHRISTIAN committed an honor killing. So, while there is obviously a certain cultural aspect to this, it is primarily a muslim thing NOT a Christian thing.
Turn the tables, and demonstrate to Islam Said what it feels like to be under constant scrutiny . . .always having to look over your shoulder in fear that someone will catch you. Oh, yeah, of course your ‘innocent’ until proven guilty.
Hey Said . . .BOO!
If you don’t think the ‘moderate’ muslims weren’t falling all over themselves to get this guy out of the country, you are stupid, or complicit. The last thing they need is an example to prove everybody’s point.
Rusty…what planet are you from? Where are you getting this notion that “honor killings” are rare? In Muslim countries, they’re anything but rare. They may be rare in the states, but they’re not rare in areas ruled by Sharia law.
And in some cases, lynching is well deserved. I think we should bring back drawing and quartering just for cases like these–so-called “honor killings.”
WOW! Such an emphatic response to something that has been proven true time and again.
I’m done.
Law enforcement should also make note of whether the Said family were renters or home owners. If they were home owners, did they purchase the home with Sharia compliant instrument?
It should be of interest to follow the asset distribution (money) in a Sharia compliant home purchase transaction.
Funerals are expensive. As finances become a critical issue between Islam (the son) and his mother, Patricia may come around with some more information.
I haven’t seen any comments yet on the fact that the mother was 15 years old when she married here husband. This suggests in my mind that she was seeking something and he offered her that something. security, comfort, whatever
Once again I ask, why is it so important for these apologists to prove the innocense of this cold blooded killer who murdered his own daughters for the sake of the imagined honor of his family?
I am, of course, referring to my post above, that asks those questions of why these Liberals have repeatedly, time and time, and time again, continually ignored all the killings, the slayings, the bombings, the burnings, the protests in the hundreds of thousands of “outraged” Muslims everytime their delicate sensibilities are tarnished, the fact that 99% of every single armed conflict on this planet today is caused by and fought over or by Islamic “Fundamentalists” or “Moderates” or whatever-the-Hell- you want to call them…why do you CONSTANTLY keep coming back and coming back and coming back to defend those that need no defending?
Why are they not defending themselves? Why do they need you, the Liberals of this country, to be out there in the forefront, speaking their case for them? There was, at last count, some 1.2 BILLION Muslims in this world. That is a full 1/6th of the global populations. Just under the population of Catholics, i might add. I don’t see any Liberals out there speaking for the Catholics as you tear them apart from the ground up.
No, I am pretty sure, that since Islam is not only a religion, but also a political powerhouse, that they are fully capable of standing up for themselves. There are the ghosts of thousands and thousands from this decade alone that can attest to that. There are the ghosts of millions and millions since it’s creation and it’s bloody, violent, murderous history that can attest to that.
So why are you so damn interested in becoming Dhimmis to this religion? You, who will not permit the Ten COmmandments in school or in court rooms. You who will not permit a prayer at graduation or at a sporting event. You who will not allow a student to thank God during her Valedictorian speech. You who only days ago ripped apart Christianity in these very pages. You who have never stood up for Christianity ever, who want the Jews to suffer and die under the Palestinians and Iranians…who are you and why do you care about Islam and their historically murderous culture? Why do you deny and cover it up? And why do you help them to come here, subjugate our country, our children and our women?
Answer those questions. DOn’t ignore them. They are honest wuestions, and your ignoring them only shows that my asking them scares you and exposes you for what you are…Dhimmis and assistants to your own funerals.
Amen, RetFireman.
I echo the Amen, RetFireman.
Western fathers ground their daughters or take away the car keys.
Not an honor killing? Okay, then, what is it? The brother and mother haven’t come up with an alternative answer, because there isn’t one.
I also believe these two beautiful girls were forced to drop the sexual abuse charges by their murdering thug of a so-called father.
Michelle,there are times when I want to hate you for reporting on stories such as this,but I love you even more for exposing the truth that no one else will.I’ve always believed “the truth hurts”;but being the fether of the best daughter in the world,this one hurts like hell.When they catch the bas****,I wish they would give him to me for a while.I don’t care why he did it,the SOB deserves to die for it.
Sorry if I offended anyone,but this deserves nothing but a slow excrutiatingly painful death.
And, an amen to you Blues! I haven’t been fortunate enough to have a
daughter but I have two of the most beautiful nieces and the thought of them dying for someone’s Face is absolutely
sickening. I do agree that more than likely they were forced to drop the abuse charges by the father, but I would bet it’s even more insidious than that. I would bet the Mother made them drop them either because he forced her to do so, or she did it because of finances.
Thank you,Rose.I’m sure a lot of people here share my feelings,I appreciate seeing it expressed.
Oh, I’m sorry..I left this out:
There is no evidence to support that a Christian or Jewish family of Jordan or Palestine did practice honor killing.
I see..you actually wanted me to re-read your source as was so niely pointed out to you here
RetFireman, that was awesome.
It is truly tragic that killing one’s children in the interest of religious self-preservation is acceptable behavior in any segment of humanity. That it is seen as a necessary act in order to re-establish one’s honor within society is evil distilled to its purest form. My heart goes out to all of the women and girls of the world who live in societies where honor may be obtained through the snuffing of their lives.
I have never been able to understand why they are called ‘honor killings’. What could be more dishonorable than killing or throwing acid on your own relatives?
Hey Chops if you are still here can you answer a question for me? Where in the New Testament did Paul, Jesus, Mark, James and other authors advocate killing others? You have yet to claim a verse and I would love to know where its found. I have searched and searched and still can’t find a verse where it says that we kill our children if they have sinned. And by the way Chops we don’t have a religion but its a personal relationship with Christ and thats what makes it different from all other religions. Those who are killed or murder in so called Christian societies do not really have a personal relationship with the Living Christ. And again CHOPS I will be waiting for that verse that it says its ok to kill your kids.
re:Yashmak;also if it was so “honorable” ,why is he hiding instead of standing up for what he did?Because there is no honor in being a cowardly bas****.
And the clock ticks on. Where did they go? Where are they all? The light has been turned on and all the cockroaches have fled to their corners? Is that it? Where is the strength of your convictions? I asked you guys who are apologizing for these acts of horror committed on innocent young women in every corner of the world, you people who keep making excuses, trying to convince people with no evidence, trying to turn the tables and say “Everyone does it”, with absolutely no proof…to come forward and explain yourselves. Just to answer the questions I posed to you.
And look. You can’t do it.
Not a single, solitary one of you.
We sit here, day after day after day. We read your tripe day after day. Your constant attempts at flaming us, at insulting our politics, our beliefs, our beliefs in the Almighty, in a Higher Power, in the War Against Islamic Aggression and oh so many things…and when it comes right down to it, you all are nothing but empty suits. You have no personal convictions. You cannot come out and express anything that is not something you have read from another site, or given to you from one of your hate groups. You are nothing but parrots. You have no personal knowledge of anything. You have done no study of any politics, of any pan-global religious happenings, you know nothing of this religion you defend, what it teaches, what it’s tenets are, what it says about it’s women, what it tells men to do towards their daughters or anything. What you have are nothing but sound bites picked up by other feel good happy-go-lucky good-time Liberals who want to FEEL good about them and who can’t possibly imagine that those things could possibly go on in a civilized world. After all, they have dubbed this religion “The Religion of Peace” and to go now and accept them for what they are in A MAJORITY of places on this planet would mean that THEY ARE WRONG and no one anywhere knows of a single Liberal who can ever admit being wrong.
So you will argue with your sound bites until you get pinned in the corner, the light gets turned on and you scurry into every crack you can find until the next opportunity to spew forth your sound bites and bumper sticker slogans.
You are now exposed.
I am calling for a moritorium on all the currently known trolls on this forum. No longer feed them. No longer answer their postings, no matter how insane they may be. They will grow more insane as they realize just how serious we are about ignoring them. You should see some of the posts from some of them from here at my place. As soon as they found out I wouldn’t post them, my my my, the language they have used. ANyway, ignore them, do not feed them. They have just now proven, beyond any reasonable doubt just what and who they are.
I am done with them Anyone who will apologize and make excuses for such an act as honor killings is beyyond my time and not worth the air they are permitted to breathe.
So says this broken nodied retired fireman and, cyber thug. (Who, by the way, lives as he posts.)
nodied=bodiedThe son is damaged goods. Women should avoid him at all costs. He has studied at his father’s knee and knows just what to do in every situation.
Fireman,you hit the nail on the head.The trolls who come onto conservative sites definately need a good dose of reality.I’m reminded of a freind who upon reading a newspaper report about the rapes and torture that happened in Kosovo said to me”I can’t believe people could do such things.”
My response was”that is what they call war.It isn’t the blue team over here and the red team over there,it’s the innocents in the middle who suffer.
No matter how cultured or sophisticated a person believes he is,there is a savage underneath.The best any of us can do is to keep the savage at bay.
blues,
you anger is rightfully placed and I would like to see which method of torture works on this humane bast**d;
a) Waterboarding to the Beach Boys while facing opposite of mecca
b) Listening to Barry Manilow 24/7
c) Being massaged by a transvestite rubbed in pork greese.
d) Death by a 1000 cuts
or e) All of the above
It is “moderate muslims” like this is why I openly question the rop.
GSP
Dhimitude or Freedom-Your Choice!
I am the father of three daughters. ?There is nothing…NOTHING they could ever do that could make me even consider killing them. Heck, I think I may have only swatted them on the butt once each their whole life.
There can never be an excuse nor an apology made for this type of action. The fact that these apologists here make such claims as they have on here, completely ignoring the truth, the actual facts of this religion, what it stands for, what it’s holy books say, what is practced openly in the largest of it’s countries just for the sake of their own peace of mind…so that they will be able to never have to admiy that they were wrong is just shameful and nausiating.
There is nothing that anyone can do about it either. We talk till we are blue in the face; Thet turn a blind eye to the killings, the murders, the genocide, the mass slayings of Christians, the countless homicide bombers, all the wars all over the globe, the enclaves, the violence, the changes in their own communities and do so out of fear. fear of having to admit they were and are wrong. Fear of having to admit that it is not a religion of peace, but one of death and submission and that the world and yes, humans themselves, will never be the way their imaginations and emotions want them to be.
All because ultimately they are nothing but craven cowards.
RetFireman, not sure why you called me out on this issue, but here’s a shot at what I hope is a reasonable response.
First, FWIW I’m an old-school/traditional conservative in the Goldwater/Reagan mold (minus the religious right stuff) with a dash of libertarian thrown in. However, I’m not angry about it (to paraphrase Mike Huckabee), and I’m not afraid to challenge fellow conservatives or listen to opposing points of view from those on the left.
Second, I’ve got very little use for organized religion in general, and if we woke up tomorrow to find that all organized religion had disappeared, you’d get no tears from me. However, like most of us, I think that Islam is particularly dangerous. Unlike other organized religions, I have a lot of trouble finding anything redeeming about Islam. It is more than obvious that the extremist jihad-oriented wing of Islam poses a huge threat to our country and the rest of the world…no doubt about this whatsoever.
Here’s the rub for me though, as I’m a results oriented, bottom-line type of guy. If we want to advance the discussion, it is important to accurately (without emotion and hyperbole) identify the magnitude of the problem and then come up with practical solutions that actually have a chance of being implemented and achieving success. It may feel good to vent in a vitriolic and emotional way, but it doesn’t do much good in getting from A to B. DougT was trying to make this point in another thread (BTW, granite I apologize for my tool-like comments to you in that discussion).
BTW, the whole “Religion of Peace” thing isn’t just a liberal deal as most of you know. I believe that President Bush has referred to Islam in that way on several different occasions.
Hi folks. I was having a pretty good day until…
I wish I wouldn’t have listened. Stupid internet.
I hope they find him and string him up.
Um…
http://lowdown.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/01/17/dramatic-9-1-1-calls-released/
Here’s a thought. They were Muslims. They can read. They can read the Loran. They can see it for what it is. Yet they continue to “believe”, to be Muslims. I personally despise Muslims, simply because they CAN see the lie that is Islam, yet they continue to not only “believe” it, but to try to make all of US respect them for it. THose girls were Muslims. Just because they were raised that way is no excuse, once they became old enough to read and understand. As an example (worthy of a Darwin Award), a woman (Muslim) in Nigeria was RAPED. She was charged with adultery and sentenced to be stoned to death. The man that raped her was forgiven, because SHE wasn’t sufficiently covered (as in a Burkha) so it was HER fault for tempting him (I guess those few square inches of unwashed third-world Islamic female hide on display was too much for him). Anyhow, when human rights activists tried to intervene, she told them to butt out, that she was a Muslim and she accepted the verdict and the punishment. She was buried up to her neck, with only her head sticking out of the sand, and stoned to death. I have no pity for the “victims” of Islam when the “victims” are Muslims themselves. Sorry.